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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: suckmymuscle on April 27, 2012, 09:08:28 PM
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1. Fedor(31 consecutive wins against opponents who averaged 35 lbs more than him, and PRIDE HW champion for years. Most well-rounded, adaptable and technically flawless fighter ever. One of the gods of MMA. Only MMA fighter ever to carry the Olympic torch for his country.)
2. Shogun Rua(1 of only 2 fighters to ever hold belts on both PRIDE and the UFC, and he beat the other man who did. Winner of the 2005 PRIDE Grand Prix, where he faced and defeated HWs as a LHW)
3. Dan Henderson(winner of 2 belts in PRIDE on 2 different weight classes, and one of the fighters who consistently maintained one of the highest winning rates over 15 years of career)
4. Frank Shamrock
5. Igor Vovchanchyn(won over 100 MMA fights against significantly larger opponents with only 10 losses, and had the highest unbeaten streak in MMA history with 37 consecutive wins)
6. Royce Gracie(winner of 3 of the first 4 UFCs in a time when there were no weight limits. One of the gods of MMA)
7. Vitor Belfort(winner of 2 UFC belts in different weight classes. Most wins by KO in first round of any fighter in MMA history . One of the most explosive and devastating strikers in the history of MMA.
8. 'Page(1 of only 2 men to ever win belts in both PRIDE and the UFC)
9. Wanderlei Silva(PRIDE middle-weight champion for years with a record of 22 consecutive wins and ranked as #1 P4P fighter for eight years. Together with Fedor, the most popular and well-known MMA fighter ever.)
10. Kazuchi Sakuraba(consistently ranked in the top #3 P4P list for a whole decade. Beat all the Gracies except for Rickson)
11. Anderson Silva(UFC record with 13 consecutive wins and 9 title defenses. I would have ranked him higher except that he is in one of the weakest divisions in the UFC)
12. Jeremy Horn(89 wins against consistenly good competition. Only been KOd once)
I would like to make clarifications. You might be asking where is Jones and GSP on my list. Well, I decided to exclude GSP because his division is pretty weak, and because he never finishes anyone. He is the epitome of the decision fighter. I do not like fighters like this.
As for Jones, it not that hard being great when you are 6'5 beating up on 5'11 guys. Also, he is only 24 years old and has been fighting professionally for only 3 years. When he moves to HW and dominates like he is doing the LHW division, then I will move him up to top 3 ever.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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A nice selection. Personally i wouldnt have Royce in there because he wasnt even close to being the best fighter from his family and i would have replaced Frank with Bas Rutten. Its all good though, as i like to stress these things are all subjective to the individual and with so many great champions to choose from its tough to get them all in.
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Great list.
No room for Bart Vale?
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Good list. My favorite on that list was Frank Shamrock. I remember his early fights in Pride when he had limited skill. What he had was incredible heart. When his skill level matched his heart he was unreal. I really miss seeing him fight but all these fighters only have so many fights in them before they are shot.
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Very good list.
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1. Fedor(31 consecutive wins against opponents who averaged 35 lbs more than him, and PRIDE HW champion for years. Most well-rounded, adaptable and technically flawless fighter ever. One of the gods of MMA. Only MMA fighter ever to carry the Olympic torch for his country.)
2. Shogun Rua(1 of only 2 fighters to ever hold belts on both PRIDE and the UFC, and he beat the other man who did. Winner of the 2005 PRIDE Grand Prix, where he faced and defeated HWs as a LHW)
3. Dan Henderson(winner of 2 belts in PRIDE on 2 different weight classes, and one of the fighters who consistently maintained one of the highest winning rates over 15 years of career)
4. Frank Shamrock
5. Igor Vovchanchyn(won over 100 MMA fights against significantly larger opponents with only 10 losses, and had the highest unbeaten streak in MMA history with 37 consecutive wins)
6. Royce Gracie(winner of 3 of the first 4 UFCs in a time when there were no weight limits. One of the gods of MMA)
7. Vitor Belfort(winner of 2 UFC belts in different weight classes. Most wins by KO in first round of any fighter in MMA history . One of the most explosive and devastating strikers in the history of MMA.
8. 'Page(1 of only 2 men to ever win belts in both PRIDE and the UFC)
9. Kazuchi Sakuraba(consistently ranked in the top #3 P4P list for a whole decade. Beat all the Gracies except for Rickson)
10. Wanderlei Silva(PRIDE middle-weight champion for years with a record of 22 consecutive wins and ranked as #1 P4P fighter for eight years. Together with Fedor, the most popular and well-known MMA fighter ever.)
11. Anderson Silva(UFC record with 13 consecutive wins and 9 title defenses. I would have ranked him higher except that he is in one of the weakest divisions in the UFC)
12. Jeremy Horn(89 wins against consistenly good competition. Only been KOd once)
I would like to make clarifications. You might be asking where is Jones and GSP on my list. Well, I decided to exclude GSP because his division is pretty weak, and because he never finishes anyone. He is the epitome of the decision fighter. I do not like fighters like this.
As for Jones, it not that hard being great when you are 6'5 beating up on 5'11 guys. Also, he is only 24 years old and has been fighting professionally for only 3 years. When he moves to HW and dominates like he is doing the LHW division, then I will move him up to top 3 ever.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
Vitor Belfort? Ahead of Silva? :D Jeremy Horn is just a complete fail.
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You have to have Gsp in that list. Bones Jones has already has done more then Jeremy Horn.
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Vitor Belfort? pleaseee ::)
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Take out Shamrock and put in GSP.
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A nice selection. Personally i wouldnt have Royce in there because he wasnt even close to being the best fighter from his family and i would have replaced Frank with Bas Rutten. Its all good though, as i like to stress these things are all subjective to the individual and with so many great champions to choose from its tough to get them all in.
Yes, in terms of skills, I would rate even Renzo above Royce. And the best Gracie, of course, is Rickson.
But my list is about accomplishment. I factor in how much they accomplished in the sport, against what quality opposition and how they done it to arrive at my list.
Royce has to be there as the man who won 3 of the first 4 UFCs including the very first one when the UFC had no weight classes.
Royce will forever be remembered as the man who won the very first UFC, and that gives him god-like status in MMA.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Vitor Belfort? Ahead of Silva? :D
Yes. Vitor has 2 UFC belts in different weight classes, whilst Anderson has only 1. Vitor has more finishes in the first round than Anderson, and throughout his career he fought consistently tougher opposition than Anderson.
Anderson has been the UFC's MW champion since 2006 in the weakest division in the UFC, fighting against fighters such as Thales Leites, Patrick Côté, Rich Franklin, Nate Marquadt and other mediocre opposition. Vitor deserves to be ranked above Silva even though Silva beat him. It is the same reason why Shogun is #2 on my list and Jones doesen't make it even though he beat Shogun, because the latter's body of work and accomplishments are far greater.
Jeremy Horn is just a complete fail.
Wrong. Horn has won 89 MMA fights and beaten legends of the sport. I wouldn't rank him top 5 but he deserves to be there.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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You have to have Gsp in that list.
I don't "have" to have anyone. It is my list.
GSP is a very well-rounded and highly intelligent fighter who is always able to adapt to his opponent's game and find a way to beat him. I am not questioning that GSP is a very good fighter.
He doesen't make my list for two reasons: the WW division is one of the weakest in the UFC, not as weak as the MW division but close, and GSP never finishes his opponents. How many KOs does GSP have on his record? How many submissions? How many TKO wins? When was the last time he finished an opponent? How many years has it been since he actually finished someone? He is the epitome of the decision fighter, and I hate decision fighters.
Bones Jones has already has done more then Jeremy Horn.
Wrong. Horn has 89 wins against quality opposition. Jones has beaten even higher quality opponents in Shogun and Rampage, yes, but what you ignore is that he is 6'5 with an 84.5" reach and has a huge strength advantage over his opponents.
Horn has a lot more wins to his resume and he actually fought guys he didn't outsize. I cannot take Jon Jones seriously until he starts fighting people his size. Did you watch his last fight against Rashad? Rashad looked literally like a child next to him, and yet Bones was unable to finish him.
If Jones move up to HW and dominates like he does the LHW division, then I will put him at #2 or #3 on my list. I will still rank Fedor higher because Fedor was a LHW who dominated the HW division, whilst Jones is a true HW.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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1. Fedor(31 consecutive wins against opponents who averaged 35 lbs more than him, and PRIDE HW champion for years. Most well-rounded, adaptable and technically flawless fighter ever. One of the gods of MMA. Only MMA fighter ever to carry the Olympic torch for his country.)
2. Shogun Rua(1 of only 2 fighters to ever hold belts on both PRIDE and the UFC, and he beat the other man who did. Winner of the 2005 PRIDE Grand Prix, where he faced and defeated HWs as a LHW)
3. Dan Henderson(winner of 2 belts in PRIDE on 2 different weight classes, and one of the fighters who consistently maintained one of the highest winning rates over 15 years of career)
4. Frank Shamrock
5. Igor Vovchanchyn(won over 100 MMA fights against significantly larger opponents with only 10 losses, and had the highest unbeaten streak in MMA history with 37 consecutive wins)
6. Royce Gracie(winner of 3 of the first 4 UFCs in a time when there were no weight limits. One of the gods of MMA)
7. Vitor Belfort(winner of 2 UFC belts in different weight classes. Most wins by KO in first round of any fighter in MMA history . One of the most explosive and devastating strikers in the history of MMA.
8. 'Page(1 of only 2 men to ever win belts in both PRIDE and the UFC)
9. Wanderlei Silva(PRIDE middle-weight champion for years with a record of 22 consecutive wins and ranked as #1 P4P fighter for eight years. Together with Fedor, the most popular and well-known MMA fighter ever.)
10. Kazuchi Sakuraba(consistently ranked in the top #3 P4P list for a whole decade. Beat all the Gracies except for Rickson)
11. Anderson Silva(UFC record with 13 consecutive wins and 9 title defenses. I would have ranked him higher except that he is in one of the weakest divisions in the UFC)
12. Jeremy Horn(89 wins against consistenly good competition. Only been KOd once)
I would like to make clarifications. You might be asking where is Jones and GSP on my list. Well, I decided to exclude GSP because his division is pretty weak, and because he never finishes anyone. He is the epitome of the decision fighter. I do not like fighters like this.
As for Jones, it not that hard being great when you are 6'5 beating up on 5'11 guys. Also, he is only 24 years old and has been fighting professionally for only 3 years. When he moves to HW and dominates like he is doing the LHW division, then I will move him up to top 3 ever.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
Sucky,
Where would you rank Rickson Gracie. You hear a hell of a lot about him, but the dude never fought in the UFC / Pride that I know of. I thought everybody said he was the best, but I don't see how they can make that claim. Peace bro and excellent list.
Nico
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your jones obsession is embarrassing
if he can make 205 why wouldnt he use his physical advantages
he is a freak at 205 he could dominate that division for years
good luck to him
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Sucky,
Where would you rank Rickson Gracie. You hear a hell of a lot about him, but the dude never fought in the UFC / Pride that I know of. I thought everybody said he was the best, but I don't see how they can make that claim. Peace bro and excellent list.
Nico
Greatest BJJ grappler ever - even above Carlson and Hélio in my opinion -, and 8th Dan black belt.
But I cannot take him seriously as an MMA fighter because he fought very little. Besides Nobuhiko Takada and Yamamoto, who has he fought in MMA that was any good?
The best thing that came out of Rickson's short MMA career was that his fight with Takada launched PRIDE FC.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Rickson's 450-0 record. ;D
Rickson by armbar! ;D
"For three years now I have heard relentless bantering back and forth discussing the greatness of Rickson Gracie. Many of times I have found myself scratching my head over the loyalty of his followers. Worshipping of this nature is usually only reserved for super stars such as American Idol’s Clay Aiken or Christianity’s Jesus Christ. In the beginning, being the typical ignorant American, I first asked myself, ‘how many Super Bowl rings has Rickson won?, as football is the only sport that matters. None, as I soon realized from reading people’s quotes. This Rickson character is a bjj ‘artist’, the best ever and also pound for the pound the world’s greatest fighter of ALL TIME. Wow. “that’s really impressive” I thought.
Over time though, doubts started creeping into my head. Rickson, curiously enough, had a fight record of 400-0, that was thrown around more often than a dirty pair of socks. Being a somewhat numbers obsessed guy, I quickly busted out my hp financial calculator and did some match. He’s 45. He fought nine ‘recorded’ matches from 1994 to 2004. Fair enough as 1993 was the birth of modern day MMA. So that means from Rickson’s age of 18 (1975) to 1993, 18 years, he must have then squeezed in roughly 391 recorded fights. “GOD DAMN” I shouted and scratched my head, amazed at his level of activity. That’s almost 22 fights a year! One fight every 16 days, consistently, over the time span of 18 years. That’s unmatched and to think he never missed a beat due to sickness, injury, being married, or funerals. The man just kept fighting and fighting and fighting. He must have actually snuck in a fight or two while on his honeymoon to boot. “hey honey, no sex tonight, I have to keep my fight streak intact. Will be back in three hours after I put beat down on kids in bar”
Now really twisting my head trying to comprehend this, a few weeks ago more doubts came to the surface. Just as Jesus Christ had Mathew, Mark, Luke and John (nice jewish names to note) Rickson also had followers…JeffP, Compridough, and Rickson4life, the last person consigning his entire personality to that of another mans name. Interesting. What caused these doubts? A thread on the ADCC forum. This thread discussed legendary achievements by athletes. Wrestling’s John Smith came up, how he won an Olympic Gold medal and four World Gold medals. Alexander Karelin’s name come up next; multiple Olympic Gold Medals and decades worth of World Championship Gold’s. Surprisingly enough, the ‘fellowship of rickson’s nuts’, jeffp, compridough and rickson4life swarmed in to comment.
Rickson first chimed in with this;
“I am not a huge fan of gable or smith, both asholes in my book, But I respect their acheivements even if gable was using roids during the 72 games………..there is proof that Rickson is great. he beat Funaki, ya know the guy that beat frank sham, bas, kondo and a few other mellons that are legends of this forum and Rickson was undefeated and won the absolute in every bjj tourney he competed in from black belt on, by sub”
Hmmm..i scratched my head. He then followed up with this comment…
“Rickson has more documented titles of bjj then the wrestlers do in wrestling and bjj IMO is harder from doing both”
Wow…I was shocked as I didn’t know that. I suppose I learned something new that day. Little did I know that more was on the way. The second apostle of Rickson’s nuts, JeffP, immediately countered with more facts to back the Rickson story…
“Now if Rickson counted every guy he ever really tapped into his record, he would be about 4 million and something, not 400-0. Rickson and Felix Heredia tapped 200 guys in Japan in one day back in the early 90's. I'm also sure Gokor has tapped more guys than he can count with an adding machine”
I felt stupid. Here I was, shortchanging Rickson for the past few years, thinking his record was only 400 ‘documented’ wins, when in actuality, I was failing to consider all the practice room victories he had secured. I felt foolish for disagreeing with JeffP. Utilizing my calculater again, I crunched the numbers. From age 16 to age 44…that’s 28 years of fighting. 4 million divided by 28 equals … GASP!!! 391 confirmed victories every single DAY, over the span of 28 years. Was that possible? That’s 16 beat downs every hour, 24 hours a day, over 28 years. Rickson must be tapping people in his sleep, while he takes dumps on the toilet, while he eats. This is incredible, I thought. But catching my breath and trying to relax, I soon realized that I was played for a fool, the above is simply not possible. I posted the above thought trying to rationally reason with these followers. I asked, where can this humble man known only as ‘the wrestler’ find such facts you are now sharing. I too would like to nutride some day and if so, there cannot be a greater set of nuts to suck than the man who taps people while eating and shittting.
Nonetheless, the man known only as ‘rickson4life’ politely informed me next that:
“hey there jerknutz, I neva promised you nuthin, but I did at one time have those facts and another source that had at least 127 matches listed
Rejected. I was quite despondent.
Therein lies the beginning of my story. The 7 day pilgramidge to the holy land of ‘rickson’ to search for the truth. To attempt to find the holy covenants that lie out there, also known as ‘Rickson’s fight record’ Over this time span, I would actually send one of my employees to go to California, try to ask Rickson himself for the ‘supposed records’ Others in my office would also help as we scoured the internet three times over, pouring over every record and fact available. This is what we would find.
Using our trusted allies ‘google.com’ and ‘booble.com’, we got to searching. The first two web sites were of no use in terms of actual accomplishments. Instead, much of those Rickson sites spent all their time discussing Rickson’s looks. The actual words we found…
“The blankness of the supremely confident. Rickson is 29, as muscular as a bodybuilder, with a Marine's crewcut, the high cheekbones of an Inca Indian and a square jaw”
and
“If Rorion is amiably handsome, Rickson is devastatingly handsome. Noted photographer Bruce Weber”
“Was he a bjj guy or a gay film star?” Carol, my secretary asked. Looking at his beach pictures, Rickson, to the untrained eye looking at his sites, looked like a romo We decided to press on with our search, moving on down the list of google’s rickson sites.
The next site we found the mystical source of the 400-0 record. Our eyes were ablaze. There it was, a bio on Rickson.
“Rickson is a 7th Degree Black Belt Open Class Champion of the Gracie Family, whose technique is considered to be the finest expression of Jiu-Jitsu in the world. His innate talent and early mastery of the sport have resulted in an impeccable undefeated record in more than 400 fights, Jiu-Jitsu tournaments, free-style wrestling, Sambo, open weight free-style competitions, and no holds barred challenge matches. Rickson is a two time Brazilian Champion in free-style wrestling, a Gold Medal Winner of Sambo, and for the last sixteen years he has been the middle-heavyweight and no weight division World Jiu-Jitsu Champion. Most recently, he conquered Japan's elite fighting in a tournament, the Japan Open Vale Tudo, winning both in 1994 and 1995. At this time, Rickson was acknowledged by the Japanese for possessing the Samurai Spirit.”
This was something to sink our hooks in on. Moving fast now, we found three more sites that referenced Rickson’s MMA career records. Ah ha!!!…but unfortunately, they all just linked right back to Sherdog.com, where Rickson’s nine fight career is noted. A far cry from the fabled 400-0. Looking at the nine fight career, Russ, an associate of mine at work, mumbled…”who are all these Japanese no-names he beat, these guys are all lame, there ‘combined’ career MMA record is only 18-27-2 and not a single one was ever ranked in the top 30, at ANY time. What the hell is up with that? David Levicki? Yuki Noiki? Bud Smith? Yoshihisa Yamamoto? There all ‘cans’” I chuckled out loud, at the sound of a man who has watched one MMA event in his life recognizing a tomato can when he saw one. Nonetheless, we were all frustrated. 9-0 versus eight ‘cans was not that impressive, surely there was more.
YES!” We shouted, as we found a good link.
http://bjj.org/tournaments/outcomes.html
This page read as follows…
”This page attempts to record some of the more significant matches fought by legitimate professional BJJ lutadors against other styles, in the seventy year history of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu”
Since Rickson is THE most significant bjj fighter of all times, surely we would find numerous transcripts and results of his fights. This site would hold the answers we seek. Unfortunately, of Rickson’s 400 documented wins, these two 'WINS' would be the only one the site listed:
1. Sometime in the 80’s, Rickson apparently beat up Brazilian fighting legend Hugo Duarte on some beach somewhere, location was not specified as I suppose a beach is just a beach. Could this be the same Hugo Duarte that used his face to bruise Tank Abbot’s hand back in UFC-Brazil? Then added insult to injury by bleeding all over Tanks arm?
2. Sometime in 1980 and then again 1985, Rickson beat down a monster known only by the name of ‘Zulu’ Ahhhhhhhh…we had heard of this man. This is the first sighting of a ‘significant’ Rickson Gracie victory. YES. From what we had heard, Zulu was Brazil’s version of ‘Paul Bunyan’, a giant amongst men, 450lbs of raw muscle who shot flames out of his arse. A present day ‘Bob Sapp’ Unfortunately, backchecking Zulu’s record, very little could be found. His weight was listed at only around 220lbs and his discipline was listed as ‘no formal training’ Hmmm. Who was Zulu? After hours of searching, the best and only documented ‘anything’ on this man was that he was from the town of São Luis and his real name was ‘Rei Zulu’. To sum up a lot of nonsense, Zulu was basically the local ‘toughman’, a bully who beat up locals. His record of 140-0 was puffed up on fat, drunk American tourists and neighborhood kids. We were perplexed as to why Rickson would define his career on this man?
Frustrated immensely, we searched over 45 more sites but more of the same. One site intereviewed Rickson, asking him his greatest fighting achievement. He listed his Pride 1 victory over Japan’s greatest fighter of all time, Nobuhiko Takada, who sported a lofty lifetime record of 2-6-2.
http://w3.blackbeltmag.com/bbkids/yo...cie/gracie.asp
Another site that had Rickson apparently had a movie review of a movie he was in.
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/p/RicksonGracie-1128279/
That was interesting until we noticed the site was ‘rottentomatoes.com’. LOL at the irony of his jump into movies getting the same review as the opponents that he has taken on.
“hey, not fair’ cried my associate Russ. We should use Rickson’s greatest movie, “choke” as a more unbiased review of his opponents. Surely an actual documentary on his fighting career will show who he beat and give footage of at least some of his 400 wins. Russ was right and I moved onto the next site....
http://www.dvdverdict.com/reviews/choke.php
Unfortunately again, the site had nothing good to say about the video. The actual words in the review…
“My biggest complaint about Choke isn't the violence, however, but the lack of competition that Gracie faces at this event. Maybe it's that Gracie is just that good instead of these other competitors being wussies, but he wins in complete squashes. That does not make for great drama”
Note. The video apparently showcased Rickson beating down Todd Hayes who is a ‘famous’ kickboxer from Texas, who apparently won Steak and Shake's Beerfest toughman contest in 1990 and Koichiro Kimura, the Japanese heavyweight shootfighting champion. Sherdog’s fight finder said Todd had a career record of 1-0. Kimura was 1-2, but wait, this was the fight that was already listed on Sherdog. Nonetheless, Todd Hayes became documented win number 10. Moving on.
The next 47 links all just linked up with either forum boards or video reviews of his video ‘Choke’ This type of search was going absolutely no where. Using Google as a reference, it just looked like Rickson was a good looking gay gay from the beach who made videos and beat up a black beach bum bully in 1985.
We decide to focus our search on the original source of documents. It stated Rickson was a gold medal winner in Sambo. Onward we searched at this link.
http://bjj.org/interviews/rickson-1998-04.html
Apparently Rickson had competed in Sambo tournaments and this interview showed he got beat by United States sambo rookie, Ron Tripp. The interview:
“FF In our last interview, you claim that you did not know the rules when you fought in a Sambo tournament in the U.S. against Ron Tripp, therefore it should not be considered a loss, but I see on your record that you had competed in other Sambo events prior to this.
RG You must understand that each tournament was not the same. Not every Sambo tournament has the exact same rules. If I had known that getting thrown on your back was a loss, this would not have happened. If Mr. Tripp would like to fight NHB, I'm sure the promoters could set this up.
Hmmm..upon further review, that tournament was not fair to Rickson. Even though he was a lifelong Sambo competitor, in this particular tournament, Rickson WANTED Tripp to toss him and slam him on his back, so that loss was not actually a ‘loss’ The 400-0 is now 400-0-1*
Nonetheless, another person documented this mess quite accurately..
“He(rickson) claims the rules to Sambo can vary with the tournament, and that if he had known falling on his back was a loss it wouldn't have happened. I find that a little suspect. No major sambo tournament refuses give big points [or an outright win] for a powerful hip throw that lands the opponent flat on their back. Further, there is almost always a rules review session for competitors before a competition of this size.
It was a sambo event, in EVERY sambo event there is "total victory", an auto win if you throw a person who then land with their head at your feet while you remain standing. Ron Tripp threw Rickson with Uchimata in under a minute and Rickson landed flat on his back at Ron's feet. Supposedly the owner of century martial arts co has video of it? What does it mean? It means that Ron Tripp is a serious grappler with great skills. It means that Rickson lost to Ron Tripp under the rules of Sambo and knew the rules before hand having already done sambo many times before so no excuse.
Hmmm. Why is Rickson lying like that? Regardless, we did find something useful from this site. The first official ‘sighting’ of a documented Rickson factual title. Apparently, back in 1977, Rickson won an actual gold medal in Sambo at the Pan Am games, at the age of 19. Unfortunately, a problem arose. There were no ‘Pan Am Games’ in 1977. They were in 1975 and 1979 and worse yet, the official site for the Pan Am games does NOT list ‘Sambo’ as an event. Freestyle, Greco and Judo are listed, but no ‘Sambo’ Very strange that Rickson would tout himself as a gold medallist at the Pan Am games when the official site of the Games does not even list his event. The link:
http://ourworld.cs.com/eblibrarian/m...ge/sports.html
Our frustrating search continued. Rickson claimed to be a two time Brazilian National Freestyle wrestling champion but that was a lost cause search. A database of Olympic and World championship qualifying teams quickly showed that he NEVER represented Brazil in either a the World Championships or the Olympics. No links could be found to verify Rickson’s claim. Perhaps the two times he won, those were the two odd years that Brazil didn’t send competitors out to compete versus the world. Convenient.
His last claim, that he was a sixteen year middle-heavyweight and no weight division World Jiu-Jitsu Champion. Maybe this would be the holy grail. Every other search for verfiable evidence came up short, but maybe this one would be different, as jj was his specialty. There is also such as thing as the ‘Brazilian Jui-Jitsu Worlds’ too. Unfortunately, Rickson would again make things difficult. He never mentions anywhere on any of his sites the actual year he won the event. While he endlessly touts a victory against a local bully Rei Zulu, he shortchanges everyone on what might be a legitimate title he holds in JJ by not providing a single source of evidence as to what year he did this.
Looking over this hopeless cause, reality set in. Rickson had little to nothing to verify or document any of his ‘JJ world title’ accomplishments. ‘If’ he had actually won a world JJ title, being he had nothing else on his resume, surely he would have touted and boasted of the victories. Since he was not listing the years or dates, we were left to assume that those titles were similar to the others, a figment of his imagination.
Standing over a wasted two weeks of work, our office behind on our regular jobs, we sadly looked at each other with astonishment. How could this “muscular bodybuilder, with a Marine's crewcut, the high cheekbones of an Inca Indian and a square jaw” fool so many people for so long. How could someone with such a loyal and massive following go year after year ‘claiming Pan Am games medals, Freestyle wrestling titles, World JJ titles and an incredulous record of 400-0, without a single peep from anyone asking him to verify it? His followers recite the 400 and ‘oh’ mantra without any asking ‘where’s the win’s? Documented records from the last 10 years of his life turn up only 10 victories. The sad truth is that there is no verifiable proof of anything with this man. Time has come and gone and most records are now conveniently lost, never to be proven. Those that can be attempted to be proven, some backchecking proves the claims to be lies. Where there is one lie, others are most likely to follow. The saying, “where there is smoke, there is fire’ is appropriate here. All we can go by now is second hand heresay talk of ‘behind closed doors’ victories. Practice room beatdowns. Secret societies and endless rumormongering. Debating Rickson’s accomplishments alongside other MMA goofballs like Matt Furey. More than half of his so-called 400 fights were against his own students "from the horses mouth". Helio once said that Rickson's record is full of BS.
I’m tired and after the above two week search, not much more can be said on Rickson. The links and facts are all up there to see. Please feel free to correct or build upon what is written. At this point, after exhausting review, my opinion is that his ‘nuts’ are not worthy of being sucked."
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Most getbiggers boast a 4000-0 mma resume.
Agree with the list, good to see Frank made it onto it.
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Is this from an article?
I think Rickson is a great fighter and a greater troll
Rickson has raised the ire of some in the MMA community by criticizing the abilities of current top fighters. Though he had not fought in a sanctioned MMA contest in eight years, Rickson claimed in 2008 that he could still beat them easily. In an interview with Tokyo Sports, Rickson argued that Fedor Emelianenko was a great athlete, but possessed "so-so" technical ability, and that he (Rickson) was "100% sure" that he would defeat him.
;D
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The image of sublime greatness: both PRIDE and UFC belts.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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2 old school killers.........
(http://www.mmalinker.com/wiki/images/6/60/Rutten.jpg)
(http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/002/029/452/marco_ruas_with_belts-26868_display_image.jpg?1331786809)
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Nice list man, great that you included Igor who is the most underrated fighter in MMA history. The guy went over 5 years without a loss and then only lost in the finals to Coleman in the first Pride Grand Prix. He stood only 5'8' and was a HW striker.
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I like this list.
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You can't mention MMA greats without mentioning
B.J. Penn
Bas Rutten
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Couture, hughes?
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Couture, hughes?
Couture, not a chance in hell is he amongst the best ever - his record speaks for itself. Dont buy into the fact he has won multiple titles, he'd have been killed by Fedor in their proposed fight and beating Tim Sylvia shows how weak the division was. If GSP isnt on this list and BJ isnt on either, then Hughes shouldnt even be considered. Hell he won the title after being choked unconscious ;D
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Randy to me represents what a fighter is, and carries himself well - his record doesn't matter, just a man with a great fighting attitude!
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Sucky,
Where would you rank Rickson Gracie. You hear a hell of a lot about him, but the dude never fought in the UFC / Pride that I know of. I thought everybody said he was the best, but I don't see how they can make that claim. Peace bro and excellent list.
Nico
Rickson is the biggest fraud in MMA history. He never fought an opponent ranked in the top 20, or even the top 100 and repeatedly ducked fighters like Bas Rutten, Mark Coleman, Mark Kerr and Sakuraba when called out making every excuse in the book not to fight them. Rickson still claims to be able to beat guy like W. Silva, Lesner and Carwin when his biggest win in MMA history was defeating Takada who had a record of 2 wins and 6 losses. Rickson Gracie is a fraud and has done nothing to be revered in MMA.
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Randy to me represents what a fighter is, and carries himself well - his record doesn't matter, just a man with a great fighting attitude!
Anyone who has a record of 500 or better fighting the guys Randy fought is impressive. Mark Coleman also only fought the best and I think Hendo has faced the best competition of anyone.
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Couture, not a chance in hell is he amongst the best ever - his record speaks for itself. Dont buy into the fact he has won multiple titles, he'd have been killed by Fedor in their proposed fight and beating Tim Sylvia shows how weak the division was. If GSP isnt on this list and BJ isnt on either, then Hughes shouldnt even be considered. Hell he won the title after being choked unconscious ;D
When you consistently fight top 5 opponents you get some losses.
I'm sure even someone like yourself good have a winning record if you fought senior citizens. Would that be more impressive than going 15-10 against tough comp?
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Rickson is the biggest fraud in MMA history. He never fought an opponent ranked in the top 20, or even the top 100 and repeatedly ducked fighters like Bas Rutten, Mark Coleman, Mark Kerr and Sakuraba when called out making every excuse in the book not to fight them. Rickson still claims to be able to beat guy like W. Silva, Lesner and Carwin when his biggest win in MMA history was defeating Takada who had a record of 2 wins and 6 losses. Rickson Gracie is a fraud and has done nothing to be revered in MMA.
Finest BJJ grappler ever, though. Even Carlson Gracie in his prime could not make Rickson tap. Werdum said he is a "nothing" compared to Rickson in BJJ.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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How many KOs does GSP have on his record? How many submissions? How many TKO wins?
GSP has finished 60% of his fights one way or the other. Hope this helps.
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GSP has finished 60% of his fights one way or the other. Hope this helps.
Ok, how long has it been since GSP finished anyone, idiot?
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Finest BJJ grappler ever, though. Even Carlson Gracie in his prime could not make Rickson tap. Werdum said he is a "nothing" compared to Rickson in BJJ.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
I do not doubt his BJJ excellence but I get annoyed by people who talk about his MMA greatness when his best win was over Takada and a fighter with 1 eye whom had fought 2 previous fights and put up a hell of a fight against Rickson.
Anyways, props for including Igor. In my sherdog Signature I mention how he is the most underrated fighter in MMA history and unfortunately most people have never heard of him.
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Ok, how long has it been since GSP finished anyone, idiot?
Hey idiot, that was only one of the questions you asked. Now you're cherry picking your questions 'cause you just realized your questions were in fact moronic.
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Hey idiot, that was only one of the questions you asked. Now you're cherry picking your questions 'cause you just realized your questions were in fact moronic.
Actual he pointed out how flawed your argument was, tool.
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Actual he pointed out how flawed your argument was, tool.
Good, lord - another idiot. He asked:
"How many KOs does GSP have on his record? How many submissions? How many TKO wins?"
And I gave him the number. A very simple concept to understand, unless you're stupid.
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Ok, how long has it been since GSP finished anyone, idiot?
SUCKMYMUSCLE
GSP finished his opponent 5 fights ago last time - it's true. But has won every single one of them, no losses whatsoever.
Let's see how some other fighters on top of the list have done in their last fights.
- Fedor's last 5 fights: 3 losses in a row, 2 wins agaist 2nd and 3rd tier fighters
- Shogun's last 5 fights: 3 losses, 2 wins
- Shamrock's last 5 fights: 3 losses, 2 wins
Oh yeah, GSP's recent performance is really terrible ::)
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GSP finished his opponent 5 fights ago last time - it's true. But has won every single one of them, no losses whatsoever.
Let's see how some other fighters on top of the list have done in their last fights.
- Fedor's last 5 fights: 3 losses in a row, 2 wins agaist 2nd and 3rd tier fighters
- Shogun's last 5 fights: 3 losses, 2 wins
- Shamrock's last 5 fights: 3 losses, 2 wins
Oh yeah, GSP's recent performance is really terrible ::)
Monson is hardly a second tier fighter.
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Monson is hardly a second tier fighter.
That's of course a matter of opinion, but in my opinion he's faced a top 10 opponent twice in the last couple of years and lost both fights (Fedor and Cormier). His latest victories are against Alexey Oleinik, Paul Taylor, Maro Perak, Tony Lopez, Lee Mein etc. Hardly 1st tier names.
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Another crap topic by this clown. Not related to bodybuilding. ::)
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GSP finished his opponent 5 fights ago last time - it's true. But has won every single one of them, no losses whatsoever.
Let's see how some other fighters on top of the list have done in their last fights.
- Fedor's last 5 fights: 3 losses in a row, 2 wins agaist 2nd and 3rd tier fighters
- Shogun's last 5 fights: 3 losses, 2 wins
- Shamrock's last 5 fights: 3 losses, 2 wins
Oh yeah, GSP's recent performance is really terrible
Your critique is idiotic because my list reflects body of work and not the last few fight. Fedor, Shogun and Shamrock all have a lot more finishes in their careers than GSP, and they fought tougher competition to boot. The WW division is the second worst in the UFC, so there is nothing special winning there.
GSP does not deserve to be on my list because of the caliber of fighters he defeated and above all, the way he did it. Yeah, we should celebrate GSP as the greatest fighter in the World because he was able to grind out decisions against the likes of "great" fighters such as...Jake Shields and Dan Hardy. Weeeeeehooooooooooooo!!!!!!
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Another crap topic by this clown. Not related to bodybuilding.
Yeah, like you post a lot on bodybuilding. Want to have a bodybuilding knowledge showdown with me, bitch boy? Hint: you won't win.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Your critique is idiotic because my list reflects body of work and not the last few fight. Fedor, Shogun and Shamrock all have a lot more finishes in their careers than GSP, and they fought tougher competition to boot. The WW division is the second worst in the UFC, so there is nothing special winning there.
I simply responded to your questions with cold hard facts. Numbers don't lie. You can stop crying now. Plus GSPs career is not over yet, he's on top of his game unlike Fedor who's fighting pretty much nobodies these days.
By the way, I'm not saying Fedor doesn't deserve to be there. I think he's the best mixed martial artist ever. But saying that GSPs performance has been poor lately is 100% untrue. Perhaps not as exciting as it should, but if you use that as a criteria, Clay Guida would make any TOP 10 list in the world.
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I simply responded to your questions with cold hard facts. Numbers don't lie. You can stop crying now. Plus GSPs career is not over yet, he's on top of his game unlike Fedor who's fighting pretty much nobodies these days.
By the way, I'm not saying Fedor doesn't deserve to be there. I think he's the best mixed martial artist ever. But saying that GSPs performance has been poor lately is 100% untrue. Perhaps not as exciting as it should, but if you use that as a criteria, Clay Guida would make any TOP 10 list in the world.
You are a moron who simply glossed over everything I wrote. Numbers don't lie? No shit, but my point is that grinding out decisions against sub-par opponents is not impressive.
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No shit, but my point is that grinding out decisions against sub-par opponents is not impressive.
Maybe not impressive in someone's opinion, but they're wins. And I pointed out 3 fighters who had 2-3 record in their last 5 fights. Immensely worse than 5-0 record.
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That's of course a matter of opinion, but in my opinion he's faced a top 10 opponent twice in the last couple of years and lost both fights (Fedor and Cormier). His latest victories are against Alexey Oleinik, Paul Taylor, Maro Perak, Tony Lopez, Lee Mein etc. Hardly 1st tier names.
He is a multiple ADCC champ and in his last fights went 8-2 losing only to Cormier and Fedor and beating Kharatonov. He went the distance with both and looked better than anyone else against Cormier. Hardly a second tier fighter IMO.
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What about Sam "Hands of Stone" Stout? Why isn't he on the list?!
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When you consistently fight top 5 opponents you get some losses.
I'm sure even someone like yourself good have a winning record if you fought senior citizens. Would that be more impressive than going 15-10 against tough comp?
Pedro Rizzo fought the best of his era on a consistent basis and hes nowhere near this list. Its not all about the record, i admire the guy and his achievements are comparable to anything in fighting not just MMA, but i dont see how he can be classed amongst the best of all time.
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And I don't see Keith Hackney anywhere on your list.
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Pedro Rizzo fought the best of his era on a consistent basis and hes nowhere near this list. Its not all about the record, i admire the guy and his achievements are comparable to anything in fighting not just MMA, but i dont see how he can be classed amongst the best of all time.
And how many titles has Rizzo won? LOL you see how flawed your logic is? Randy won when it counted and was a champion in 2 different weight divisions multiple times. Rizzo always lost at the big dance and thus is no where near the list.
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And how many titles has Rizzo one? LOL you see how flawed your logic is? Randy won when it counted and was a champion in 2 different weight divisions. Rizzo always lost at the big dance and thus is no where near the list.
I previously acknowledged the title reigns of Randy but his record against top 5 guys wasn't great. He beat heavyweight champion Tim Sylvia and was man handled by LHW champ Chuck Liddell, doesnt matter if youre champ its who you beat for the title. The only name of real - REAL - note since 2001 was a near prime Liddell. Maybe im grasping at straws as a way to justify my opinion but i can not see how he can be deemed one of the greatest fighters of all time.
Rizzo always lost in the title match, incidentally losing twice to Randy, but in a direct comparison:
Ricco beat Randy but lost to Pedro
Josh beat Randy but was KO'd by Pedro
Has to count enough to justify me mentioning his name for this debate?
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Randy also beat Chuck, who beat Wandelie who beat Saku, who beat Royce, Rampage, Vitor and Randleman. See how MMA math doesn't work?
Your opinions on the quality of Randys' opponents is only that, opinion. And who cares who he has beat since when? The bottom line is that during his career he beat Vitor, Chuck, TK, Smith, Randleman, Rizzo,Tito, Gonzaga, Silvia,Vera, Coleman and more. Like his wins are less impressive if they happen at the begining of a career ::) YOu really are grasping at straws. I guess Shoguns 2005 GP win is not very impressive since he did that way back in 2005 right? Hell Colemans GP win is insignificant because it happened in 2000. The Montreal Canadians winning the Stanly cup 12 years in a row is no big deal because that happend in the 60's and 70's.
Randy wins at a 2-1 basis when facing top 10 opponents and you say that isn't impressive? There are only a handful of guys who have a better win % when facing top opponents.
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Jose Aldo is better than the top 12 combined.
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Fedor and Rizzo will fight, so we will see. Can Fedor deal with Rizzo's devastating knee kicks? A protracted standup war may be a mistake for Fedor. He has the power to KO Rizzo, but Rizzo has significantly superior speed, evasiness and head movement. He will have to take the fight down, but will Rizzo cripple his knees before he does that?
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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And I do believe Gumby should have been listed as number 1. Remember, he was the only man to have beaten Liddell back in the day.
Your assessment is clearly flawed Suckmanmuscle.
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And your lack of listing Paul "The Polar Bear" Varelans clearly shows an indication that you've got no business making such lists.
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And I do believe that I should have been listed as number 1 moron in the list of morons. Remember, no one is a bigger moron than me.
Your assessment is clearly right Mr.Suckmymuscle
Thanks, CockTrain.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Thanks, CockTrain.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
;D
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Ken Shamrock...Dan Severn...Shouldnt they be on the list?
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Ken Shamrock...Dan Severn...Shouldnt they be on the list?
No.
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Ken Shamrock...Dan Severn...Shouldnt they be on the list?
Certainly not. Maybe top 20-25 though.
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Jose Aldo is better than the top 12 combined.
Homer gonna homer
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Why isn't Frank Mir on that list? Two time heavyweight champion (I know one was an interim) and he will get his third when he beats the piss out of JDS :P
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Why isn't Frank Mir on that list? Two time heavyweight champion (I know one was an interim) and he will get his third when he beats the piss out of JDS :P
After this comment, I will never again address any point you make in MMA as you have proven yourself to be a mindless Zuffa zombie who probably started watching MMA a couple years ago due to TUF.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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After this comment, I will never again address any point you make in MMA as you have proven yourself to be a mindless Zuffa zombie who probably started watching MMA a couple years ago due to TUF.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
Oh yeah? I was joking, but he would belong on your list before fucking Jeremy Horn! Vitor Belfort is a joke too. He is nothing unless he is juiced to the gills. I would put a guys like Rich Franklin and Chuck Liddel over Vitor. You claim I am a Zuffa zombie, but you blatantly favor Pride fighters over anyone else. Jeremy Horn? ;D
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Jeremy Horn is on the list but Hughes, GSP and Bones aren't? Normally I'd say give me some of what you're smoking...but I'm pretty sure it's cock, so never mind.
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Jeremy Horn is on the list but Hughes, GSP and Bones aren't? Normally I'd say give me some of what you're smoking...but I'm pretty sure it's cock, so never mind.
This. Your rankings are fuckin horrible.
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Oh yeah? I was joking, but he would belong on your list before fucking Jeremy Horn! Vitor Belfort is a joke too. He is nothing unless he is juiced to the gills. I would put a guys like Rich Franklin and Chuck Liddel over Vitor. You claim I am a Zuffa zombie, but you blatantly favor Pride fighters over anyone else. Jeremy Horn? ;D
Every fighter in the UFC is juiced to the gills, you really think Franklin and Chuck are natural lol? Weighing 220+ in the ring after doing 5+ hours or cardio a day and weight training for the last 10 weeks lol. You just proved mentally handicapped people can use a computer and post on a discussion board. Thanks for the input !
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Gumby deserves to be on that list. Remember: he was the only one to have beaten Chuck "The Iceman" Liddell back in the day. I'd even say Gumby should be up there ahead of Silva.
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suckmanmuscle is a fucking idiot
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Oh yeah? I was joking, but he would belong on your list before fucking Jeremy Horn! Vitor Belfort is a joke too. He is nothing unless he is juiced to the gills. I would put a guys like Rich Franklin and Chuck Liddel over Vitor. You claim I am a Zuffa zombie, but you blatantly favor Pride fighters over anyone else. Jeremy Horn? ;D
LOl, Vitor beat Rich Franklin. Not only did he beat him, he knocked him the fuck out in the first round! Vitor's "body of work" in MMA is so vastly superior to Franklin's that I find it amazing you even suggest he be on my list. Not only did Vitor beat tougher and more opponents than Franklin, but he has a lot more devastating finishes than him. Not even close. Franklin is a glorified math teacher.
As for Chucky, he is a brawler who only fought in one division, and he got destroyed not by one, but by two of the guys on my list. He was never really that great, and his claim to fame was at one point being the #3 LHW in the World behind Shogun and 'Page.
And I do not favor PRIDE over the UFC. I included several guys on my list who were more or less exclusive UFC fighters throughout most of their careers. I love UFC and I have watched all UFC events since the first one in 1993 when Royce shocked the World and won it all. I can debate you on obscure UFC fights that happened 15 years ago that most UFC fan-boys have nevr even heard about. I know more UFC than 99.9999% of Zuffa zombies who suck on Dana White's dick.
The reason why I praise PRIDE is because of the shows they put: they spent more on a single event than the UFC spends on all their events in a whole year. They also treated fighters better and payed them more than the UFC does under the Fertitas. In terms of caliber of fighters, PRIDE and the UFC were more or less the same with a slight advantage for PRIDE on most weight classes except for HW where PRIDE had a much higher caliber of fighters. But there was that period from 2002 to about 2006 when the overall caliber of PRIDE fighters was significantly superior to the UFC's. Case in point: Chucky was the UFC's LHW champion and yet there were not one but two guys in PRIDE(Shogun and Rampage) who could beat him with relative ease. Let's not even get into a discussion between Fedor and Tim Sylvia for who was the better HW.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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LOl, Vitor beat Rich Franklin. Not only did he beat him, he knocked him the fuck out in the first round! Vitor's "body of work" in MMA is so vastly superior to Franklin's that I find it amazing you even suggest he be on myy list. Not only did Vitor beat tougher and more opponents than Franklin, but he has a lot more devastating finishes than him. Not even close. Franklin is a glorified math teacher.
As for Chucky, he is a brawler who only fought in one division, and he got destroyed not by one, but by two of the guys on my list. He was never really that great, andf his claim to fame was at one point being the #3 LHW in the World behind Shogun and 'Page.
And I do not favor PRIDE over the UFC. I included several guys on my list who were more or less exclusive UFC fighters throughout most of their careers. I love UFC and I have watched all UFC events since the first one in 1993 when Royce shocked the World and won it all. I can debate you on obscure UFC fights that happened 15 years ago that most UFC fan-boys have nevr even heard about. I know more UFC than 99.9999% of Zuffa zombies who suck on Dana White's dick.
The reason why I praise PRIDE is because of the shows they put: trhey spent more on a single event than the UFC spends on all their events in a whole year. They also treated fighters better and payed them more than the UFC does under the Fertitas. In terms of caliber of fighters, PRIDE and the UFC were more or less the same with a slight advantage for PRIDE on most weight classes except for HW where PRIDE had a much higher caliber of fighters. But there was that period from 2002 to about 2006 when the overall caliber of PRIDE fighters was significantly superior to the UFC's. Case in point: Chucky was the UFC's LHW champion and yet there were not one but two guys in PRIDE(Shogun and Rampage) who could beat him with relative ease. Let's not even get into a discussion between Fedor and Tim Sylvia for who was the better HW.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
QFT, and as far as the HW division, IMO there were about 5-7 guys in Pride who would have handed Sylvia and AA their asses when they were the UFC HW champs.
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Who would win in a fight, Batman or Spiderman?
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Who would win in a fight, Batman or Spiderman?
Easily spiderman. Much more natural ability. Batman was all gadgets.
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Every fighter in the UFC is juiced to the gills, you really think Franklin and Chuck are natural lol? Weighing 220+ in the ring after doing 5+ hours or cardio a day and weight training for the last 10 weeks lol. You just proved mentally handicapped people can use a computer and post on a discussion board. Thanks for the input !
There is a difference you moron. Take a look at how big Vitor was at the start of his career. He obviously tapered off a bunch of what he used to take. Kind of like Mark Coleman, a beast in Pride, and a wrinkled old bulldog in the UFC. Don't you think the boatload of roids helped Overeem a tad?
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Oh I loved Pride too. Had some of the best matchups ever. I also think that Pride's soft drug tests helped the fighters immensly. Crocop, Wandy, Coleman, Rampage etc... all were 1,00000 times more aggressive in the Pride days. Which makes Fedor's run more impressive when you think about it.
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minotauro
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minotauro
Owned by the #1 on my list 3 times...
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Owned by the #1 on my list 3 times...
SUCKMYMUSCLE
Jon Jones owned your #2 and will soon be owning your #3.
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Jon Jones owned your #2 and will soon be owning your #3.
That is like saying that #8 on my list could own the #4. It doesen't mean anything, really.
As for #3, if he gets inside and lends the H-bomb or puts Jones on his back on the corner of cage, it will be a long night for Bones.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Anderson
Jon
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That is like saying that #8 on my list could own the #4. It doesen't mean anything, really. As for #3, if he gets inside and lends the H-bomb or puts Jones on his back on the corner of cage, it will be a long night for Bones.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
Jon "Bones" Jones lives inside the head of Suckmanmuscle's head.
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I actually am looking forward to the day Bones is finally dethrowned. It will be glorious for Sucky!
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That is like saying that #8 on my list could own the #4. It doesen't mean anything, really.
As for #3, if he gets inside and lends the H-bomb or puts Jones on his back on the corner of cage, it will be a long night for Bones.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
Good luck with that...Jones is going to use the front kick and his reach to keep Hendo back on his heels, Hendo's going to gas by the end of round 2 and be out of there via KO or stoppage by mid round 3. I would much rather see Hendo fight Silva again...I think it's a far better match up for him even if he does struggle a bit to make the cut. At his age....Jones is just too much for Hendo...
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minotauro
What a monster.
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You forgot Fred Ettish, Joe Son, Art Jimmerson, Telia Tuli and Scott Morris.
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And how many titles has Rizzo won? LOL you see how flawed your logic is? Randy won when it counted and was a champion in 2 different weight divisions multiple times. Rizzo always lost at the big dance and thus is no where near the list.
randy coutour based on shear amount of top level of his era fighters imo should be there no one has a great record that has fought as much as he has and considering he fought late in life also.
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1. Fedor(31 consecutive wins against opponents who averaged 35 lbs more than him, and PRIDE HW champion for years. Most well-rounded, adaptable and technically flawless fighter ever. One of the gods of MMA. Only MMA fighter ever to carry the Olympic torch for his country.)
2. Shogun Rua(1 of only 2 fighters to ever hold belts on both PRIDE and the UFC, and he beat the other man who did. Winner of the 2005 PRIDE Grand Prix, where he faced and defeated HWs as a LHW)
3. Dan Henderson(winner of 2 belts in PRIDE on 2 different weight classes, and one of the fighters who consistently maintained one of the highest winning rates over 15 years of career)
4. Frank Shamrock
5. Igor Vovchanchyn(won over 100 MMA fights against significantly larger opponents with only 10 losses, and had the highest unbeaten streak in MMA history with 37 consecutive wins)
6. Royce Gracie(winner of 3 of the first 4 UFCs in a time when there were no weight limits. One of the gods of MMA)
7. Vitor Belfort(winner of 2 UFC belts in different weight classes. Most wins by KO in first round of any fighter in MMA history . One of the most explosive and devastating strikers in the history of MMA.
8. 'Page(1 of only 2 men to ever win belts in both PRIDE and the UFC)
9. Wanderlei Silva(PRIDE middle-weight champion for years with a record of 22 consecutive wins and ranked as #1 P4P fighter for eight years. Together with Fedor, the most popular and well-known MMA fighter ever.)
10. Kazuchi Sakuraba(consistently ranked in the top #3 P4P list for a whole decade. Beat all the Gracies except for Rickson)
11. Anderson Silva(UFC record with 13 consecutive wins and 9 title defenses. I would have ranked him higher except that he is in one of the weakest divisions in the UFC)
12. Jeremy Horn(89 wins against consistenly good competition. Only been KOd once)
I would like to make clarifications. You might be asking where is Jones and GSP on my list. Well, I decided to exclude GSP because his division is pretty weak, and because he never finishes anyone. He is the epitome of the decision fighter. I do not like fighters like this.
As for Jones, it not that hard being great when you are 6'5 beating up on 5'11 guys. Also, he is only 24 years old and has been fighting professionally for only 3 years. When he moves to HW and dominates like he is doing the LHW division, then I will move him up to top 3 ever.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
Kazuchi Sakuraba prolly the most underated fighter ever. Possibly the best p4p fighter that ever lived he was fighting well below weight limits and he beat a lot of good fighters also. Carlos newton,gracie ( although imo is not that great) quinton jackson which his resume dont sound that impressive but considering he beat a lot of people at 185 -190
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It is amazing the lack of respect that this CockTrain(Coltrane) turd has for the great heroes of PRIDE and everything they have accomplished in this sport. The guy has absolutely no respect, no sense of history, no decorum, no nothing. He just regurgitates whatever flavor of the moment Dana tells him to like the zombified Zuffa moron that he is. Even when it comes to UFC, he has no appreciation for pre-Zuffa era and their greats like Royce, Shamrock and Vitor.
This vile and putrid individual has to contaminate every MMA thread I post in with Dana White parroting and Greg Jackson cockulotry. He celebrates as "great" glorified semi-good BJJ grapplers like Mir who pretend to be MMA fighters, professional fight stallers like GSP or giants who win a lot by gaying it up and fighting way beneath their weight class like Bones. Ridiculous that this idiot doesen't fuck off to watching TUF that is what he shoudl be doing instead of posting mindless and repetitive things that Dana tells him to.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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The #2 guy on my list earned his spot. Both PRIDE and UFC belts side by side. This is a rare sight, folks, a sight that elicits no admiration from someone like CockTrain.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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randy coutour based on shear amount of top level of his era fighters imo should be there no one has a great record that has fought as much as he has and considering he fought late in life also.
What im stressing is that he didnt beat the top guys consistently enough to warrant being labelled the best of all time. He may have beaten guys like Sylvia (lol), Belfort (we all know the circumstances he was fighting under), Liddell & Ortiz (reluctant to list him as he wasnt a force against marquee fighters), but he lost badly to Liddell (twice after), Ricco, Josh, Brock etc. The level of the guys that beat him was far superior to the level of the guys he beat IMO.
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The #2 guy on my list earned his spot. Both PRIDE and UFC belts side by side. This is a rare sight, folks, a sight that elicits no admiration from someone like CockTrain.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
Hey, isn't that the guy that Jones absolutely demolished??
;D ;)
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Hey, isn't that the guy that Jones absolutely demolished??
;D ;)
Jones' PRIDE belt or of any other organization for that matter nowhere to be found...only one belt, baby, and he got that beating men of a lower weight class than his. ;)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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1. Fedor(31 consecutive wins against opponents who averaged 35 lbs more than him, and PRIDE HW champion for years. Most well-rounded, adaptable and technically flawless fighter ever. One of the gods of MMA. Only MMA fighter ever to carry the Olympic torch for his country.)
2. Shogun Rua(1 of only 2 fighters to ever hold belts on both PRIDE and the UFC, and he beat the other man who did. Winner of the 2005 PRIDE Grand Prix, where he faced and defeated HWs as a LHW)
3. Dan Henderson(winner of 2 belts in PRIDE on 2 different weight classes, and one of the fighters who consistently maintained one of the highest winning rates over 15 years of career)
4. Frank Shamrock
5. Igor Vovchanchyn(won over 100 MMA fights against significantly larger opponents with only 10 losses, and had the highest unbeaten streak in MMA history with 37 consecutive wins)
6. Royce Gracie(winner of 3 of the first 4 UFCs in a time when there were no weight limits. One of the gods of MMA)
7. Vitor Belfort(winner of 2 UFC belts in different weight classes. Most wins by KO in first round of any fighter in MMA history . One of the most explosive and devastating strikers in the history of MMA.
8. 'Page(1 of only 2 men to ever win belts in both PRIDE and the UFC)
9. Wanderlei Silva(PRIDE middle-weight champion for years with a record of 22 consecutive wins and ranked as #1 P4P fighter for eight years. Together with Fedor, the most popular and well-known MMA fighter ever.)
10. Kazuchi Sakuraba(consistently ranked in the top #3 P4P list for a whole decade. Beat all the Gracies except for Rickson)
11. Anderson Silva(UFC record with 13 consecutive wins and 9 title defenses. I would have ranked him higher except that he is in one of the weakest divisions in the UFC)
12. Jeremy Horn(89 wins against consistenly good competition. Only been KOd once)
I would like to make clarifications. You might be asking where is Jones and GSP on my list. Well, I decided to exclude GSP because his division is pretty weak, and because he never finishes anyone. He is the epitome of the decision fighter. I do not like fighters like this.
As for Jones, it not that hard being great when you are 6'5 beating up on 5'11 guys. Also, he is only 24 years old and has been fighting professionally for only 3 years. When he moves to HW and dominates like he is doing the LHW division, then I will move him up to top 3 ever.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
If you have Wanderlai in there you have to give mention that Antonio Nogueira and Crocop both had better records than him in Pride. Nogueira and Mirko kicked so much ass in Pride it was unreal. Fedor had great difficult fights against both of them. Crocop Fedor is an all-time great fight. It's just a shame they were both past their best by the time UFC monopolised MMA, but historically they are both better than Wanderlai Silva.
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GSP finished his opponent 5 fights ago last time - it's true. But has won every single one of them, no losses whatsoever.
Let's see how some other fighters on top of the list have done in their last fights.
- Fedor's last 5 fights: 3 losses in a row, 2 wins agaist 2nd and 3rd tier fighters
- Shogun's last 5 fights: 3 losses, 2 wins
- Shamrock's last 5 fights: 3 losses, 2 wins
Oh yeah, GSP's recent performance is really terrible ::)
Clearly greatest ever to you means "greatest in the past 2 years", by this logic Tyson was a bad boxer, Brazil are a bad soccer team, Michael Jackson hasn't sold many records, Marlon Brando was a lousy actor , etc etc etc, totally pointless argument.
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If you have Wanderlai in there you have to give mention that Antonio Nogueira and Crocop both had better records than him in Pride. Nogueira and Mirko kicked so much ass in Pride it was unreal. Fedor had great difficult fights against both of them. Crocop Fedor is an all-time great fight. It's just a shame they were both past their best by the time UFC monopolised MMA, but historically they are both better than Wanderlai Silva.
Wanderlia had that insane aura of fear about him. His highlight real of destruction is top 3. I agree with certain points, I think Nog and cro cop both had better records.
But Wand did have that insane win streak that lasted five years and he was ranked number 1 pound for pound for awhile.
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Wanderlia had that insane aura of fear about him. His highlight real of destruction is top 3. I agree with certain points, I think Nog and cro cop both had better records.
But Wand did have that insane win streak that lasted five years and he was ranked number 1 pound for pound for awhile.
How can anyone rank little Nog above Wandy is completely beyond me. Wandy went on a 22 fight winning streak back in PRIDE and he was universally regarded as the World's greatest P4P fighter for 5 years, from 2001 to 2006.
Record is not the only factor that I use in my ranking. If it were, then I would have put Vovchanchyn ast #1, given he had some 120 MMA fights with only 10 losses. I also look at quality of competition, weight of competitors compared to the fighter I am raking and the way they beat their opponents. When you take all of this into consideration, Wandy is clearly more deserving of being raked far above Nog.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Clearly greatest ever to you means "greatest in the past 2 years", by this logic Tyson was a bad boxer, Brazil are a bad soccer team, Michael Jackson hasn't sold many records, Marlon Brando was a lousy actor , etc etc etc, totally pointless argument.
You obviously didn't read what my post was a response to. All those fighters are great, yet don't get criticized not finishing fights like GSP does. I analysed last 5 fights because that's the last time GSP finished a fight without going the distance. Yet, most fighters on that list have done much worse than GSP in their last 5 fights. GSP has finished approx. 70% of his fights before the 4 fight non-finishing streak he's had recently. My point is, most of criticism for GSP does not make much sense if you look at numbers only, but people are emotional creatures and this stuff happens. Of course, the fact is that he's beaten everyone in his division for almost 5 years and hasn't been even close to losing a fight. Not bad.