240 is right...

[JOHN MATRIX]

at least in some respects. 911 had to be in many ways an inside job. im not going to venture to say who did it or why, but all i know is this.

WTC7 was a controlled demo.

the fucking thing was not hit by any planes. the official story is that it collapsed due to damage from falling debris but when you look at it it doesnt look all that damaged at all, and it JUST HAPPENS to fall in a perfect, textbook manner straight down ever so neatly in several seconds. you dont have to be an expert to see this.

im not buying into any of the cheesy michael moorish-type propaganda videos, or any of that related shit. i found the whole thing fishy from the beginning, and now having seen all these professor/professionals state their case in plain logical, reasonable terms, it makes sense. they should not have fallen, at least not like they did. and the replays of the WTC7 fall clinch it.

just watch the WTC7 fall and tell me that wasnt a controlled demo. and if that was, thats all it takes to blow the whole fucking thing open.

[Eyeball Chambers]

[Bigger Business]

"Pull it"

[240 is Back]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8403741864603265979&q=wtc+7+new&hl=en

I have found this clip, from the rear of the building, to be one of the most interesting.  It was filmed from inside a nearby building and you can really see the scope of reduction, and the symmetry of the fall.  I would LOVE IT if there was another reasonable explanation than a controlled demo.  But I cannot find one.

[gtbro1]

 So I didn't read all of the other threads about this....but what exactly is the thoery as to who was behind the controlled demo and what would be their motive to kill all those people?.

[240 is Back]

So I didn't read all of the other threads about this....but what exactly is the thoery as to who was behind the controlled demo and what would be their motive to kill all those people?.

WTC 7, which many agree to be the smoking gun, was likely a controlled demo.  Since the building was home to the CIA, SEC, Secret Service, Mayor Rudy, etc, it stands that they knew it was being wired for demolition.  (It's very hard to wire a govt building with bombs without their permission!)

The motive for the 911 attacks?  There were two.  First, it made the American people want to attack Afghanistan to get bin Laden.  Iraq followed.  People in our govt wanted to attack afghanistan and iraq (and iran too, if things go right).  And 911 gave them a permission slip to do it.  Second, 911 gave the White House the ability to tap the phone of ever household in the USA without getting permission from anyone, or telling anyone.  Patriot Act (which I supported at the time) is a very bad thing.  They can tap anyone for any reason, and they never have to tell anyone about it. You might be monitored for 5 years and they'll never tell you.

[gtbro1]

WTC 7, which many agree to be the smoking gun, was likely a controlled demo.  Since the building was home to the CIA, SEC, Secret Service, Mayor Rudy, etc, it stands that they knew it was being wired for demolition.  (It's very hard to wire a govt building with bombs without their permission!)

The motive for the 911 attacks?  There were two.  First, it made the American people want to attack Afghanistan to get bin Laden.  Iraq followed.  People in our govt wanted to attack afghanistan and iraq (and iran too, if things go right).  And 911 gave them a permission slip to do it.  Second, 911 gave the White House the ability to tap the phone of ever household in the USA without getting permission from anyone, or telling anyone.  Patriot Act (which I supported at the time) is a very bad thing.  They can tap anyone for any reason, and they never have to tell anyone about it. You might be monitored for 5 years and they'll never tell you.

  So what is the theory of who the hijackers were? Was this supposed to be a job carried out BY the government,and then blamed on Al Quida,or is the thinking that they just KNEW it was going to happen,and then did nothing to stop it,even "helping" the buildings to fall? It seems very far fetched to think that the government would murder our own people.

[240 is Back]

  So what is the theory of who the hijackers were? Was this supposed to be a job carried out BY the government,and then blamed on Al Quida,or is the thinking that they just KNEW it was going to happen,and then did nothing to stop it,even "helping" the buildings to fall? It seems very far fetched to think that the government would murder our own people.

It does seem farfetched.  But, throughout history, our own govt has done it to turn the "mood" of the people to support something they'd like to do.

1) Pearl harbor.  We knew it was coming and moved all of our nice boats away from the island.  Roosevelt had very good intel 24 hours beforehand and didn't alert pearl harbor.  This attack allowed us to enter WW2.

2) Gulf of Tonken - We used this attack (N. Vietnamese firing at us) to get into Viet nam.  De-classified documents later showed that we actually fired first, they refused to fire back and tried to retreat.  We lied to get into nam, and we later admitted it (some 40 years later).  This allowed us to enter Vietnam war.

3) Six Day War - in 1967, Lyndon B Johnson really wanted the US to get into war against Egyp on israel's side.  So, we had an Israeli bomber fire at one of our boats.  When the general of a nearby aircraft carrier called the WH for permission to defend its comrade, LBJ ordered them to stand down. "I want that boat at the bottom of the g*d D*mn sea" was his line.  This was declassified in June 2005.  Would have gotten us into war with Egypt, had a russian spy ship not showed up and started filming events.  Israeli plane split when Ruskies arrived.   Men on teh US ship were sworn to secrecy.

4) 1993 WTC - the leader of the cell that attacked the towers actually had hours of recordings of convo he had with the HEAD OF THE NY FBI!  The FBI gave them the truck, the explosives, and the time and place.  This was reported in the media.  however, he wasn't allowed to use the tapes in trial and got 20 years.  Nice deal, eh?

5) OK City - where do I start?  Ryder truck photographed down the road on an army base a week before, a total of FOUR bombs on the scene.  Craters show TWO went off (one in ryder truck, one in front of building.  Then, as the media filmed, they carried off two more bombs found which didn't detonate.  But in the trial?  just one bomb mentioned.  Also, coincidentally, EVERY employee with a badge decided to come in late that day.  That's right.  At a federal building, EVERY ATF AGENT left that morning and waited down the block in bomb gear.  Special drill, they said.  Monster coincidence, eh?   Only people who died were civilian employees and of course, the daycare center.  oh, and all the ATF parent coincidentally left their kids home that day.  Fucked up, eh?

So yes my friend - self attacks are part of our history.

6)  See: 911.

[Hugo Chavez]

  So what is the theory of who the hijackers were? Was this supposed to be a job carried out BY the government,and then blamed on Al Quida,or is the thinking that they just KNEW it was going to happen,and then did nothing to stop it,even "helping" the buildings to fall? It seems very far fetched to think that the government would murder our own people.

It is not unthinkable that there would those who conspire in government to commit a crime against the people ... It happens all the time.  It just doesn't usually result in the deaths of 3000 people.

BILL:
"Now you guys, come on. You're talking
about the United States Government
here!"
JIM:
"We're talking about a crime, Bill.
No one is above the law. Reduce it.
A crime was committed. Let's get to
work."

[Hugo Chavez]

So I didn't read all of the other threads about this....but what exactly is the thoery as to who was behind the controlled demo and what would be their motive to kill all those people?.

Important read that greatly covers motive:

The PNAC was founded in the spring of 1997 by the well-known Zionist neo-conservatives Robert Kagan and William Kristol of The Weekly Standard.

The PNAC is part of the New Citizenship Project, whose chairman is also William Kristol, and is described as “a non-profit, educational organization whose goal is to promote American global leadership.”

Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Jeb Bush, and Paul Wolfowitz signed a Statement of Principles of the PNAC on June 3, 1997, along with many of the other current members of Bush’s “war cabinet.”

Wolfowitz was one of the directors of PNAC until he joined the Bush administration.

The group’s essential demand was for hefty increases in defense spending. “We need to increase defense spending significantly if we are to carry out our global responsibilities today and modernize our armed forces for the future,” the statement’s first principle reads.

The increase in defense spending is to bring about two of the other principles: “to challenge regimes hostile to our interests and values” and “to accept responsibility for America’s unique role in preserving and extending an international order friendly to our security, our prosperity, and our principles.”

A subsequent PNAC plan entitled “Rebuilding America’s Defenses: Strategies, Forces and Resources for a New Century,” reveals that the current members of Bush’s cabinet had already planned, before the 2000 presidential election, to take military control of the Gulf region whether Saddam Hussein is in power or not.

The 90-page PNAC document from September 2000 says: “The United States has for decades sought to play a more permanent role in Gulf regional security. While the unresolved conflict with Iraq provides the immediate justification, the need for a substantial American force presence in the Gulf transcends the issue of the regime of Saddam Hussein.”

“Even should Saddam pass from the scene,” the plan says U.S. military bases in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait will remain, despite domestic opposition in the Gulf states to the permanent stationing of U.S. troops. Iran, it says, “may well prove as large a threat to U.S. interests as Iraq has.”

A “core mission” for the transformed U.S. military is to “fight and decisively win multiple, simultaneous major theater wars,” according to the PNAC.

The strategic “transformation” of the U.S. military into an imperialistic force of global domination would require a huge increase in defense spending to “a minimum level of 3.5 to 3.8 percent of gross domestic product, adding $15 billion to $20 billion to total defense spending annually,” the PNAC plan said:

“The process of transformation,” the plan said, “is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event—like a new Pearl Harbor.”

[gtbro1]

It does seem farfetched.  But, throughout history, our own govt has done it to turn the "mood" of the people to support something they'd like to do.

1) Pearl harbor.  We knew it was coming and moved all of our nice boats away from the island.  Roosevelt had very good intel 24 hours beforehand and didn't alert pearl harbor.  This attack allowed us to enter WW2.

2) Gulf of Tonken - We used this attack (N. Vietnamese firing at us) to get into Viet nam.  De-classified documents later showed that we actually fired first, they refused to fire back and tried to retreat.  We lied to get into nam, and we later admitted it (some 40 years later).  This allowed us to enter Vietnam war.

3) Six Day War - in 1967, Lyndon B Johnson really wanted the US to get into war against Egyp on israel's side.  So, we had an Israeli bomber fire at one of our boats.  When the general of a nearby aircraft carrier called the WH for permission to defend its comrade, LBJ ordered them to stand down. "I want that boat at the bottom of the g*d D*mn sea" was his line.  This was declassified in June 2005.  Would have gotten us into war with Egypt, had a russian spy ship not showed up and started filming events.  Israeli plane split when Ruskies arrived.   Men on teh US ship were sworn to secrecy.

4) 1993 WTC - the leader of the cell that attacked the towers actually had hours of recordings of convo he had with the HEAD OF THE NY FBI!  The FBI gave them the truck, the explosives, and the time and place.  This was reported in the media.  however, he wasn't allowed to use the tapes in trial and got 20 years.  Nice deal, eh?

5) OK City - where do I start?  Ryder truck photographed down the road on an army base a week before, a total of FOUR bombs on the scene.  Craters show TWO went off (one in ryder truck, one in front of building.  Then, as the media filmed, they carried off two more bombs found which didn't detonate.  But in the trial?  just one bomb mentioned.  Also, coincidentally, EVERY employee with a badge decided to come in late that day.  That's right.  At a federal building, EVERY ATF AGENT left that morning and waited down the block in bomb gear.  Special drill, they said.  Monster coincidence, eh?   Only people who died were civilian employees and of course, the daycare center.  oh, and all the ATF parent coincidentally left their kids home that day.  Fucked up, eh?

So yes my friend - self attacks are part of our history.

6)  See: 911.

VERY DISTURBING.

[240 is Back]

VERY DISTURBING.

Yep.  It's part of history.  300 million people in this country.  From a utilitarian standpoint, maybe it makes sense.  But if a family member of yours had died in towers, you sure wouldn't feel the same.

And of course, then there's the Constitution, the piece of paper upon which our nation was built.

[Hugo Chavez]

The USS Liberty is a good example too.  Israel, in cooperation with our government attacked the Liberty with the intention of sinking her and blaming it on Egypt.  We would then have grounds to enter that conflict.  But the plan was foiled and the ship, despite heavy attack from Israel, managed to survive.  This is all proven now.  Major False Flag Operation and they did kill Americans in that attempt.

For info on this:
http://www.ussliberty.com/

And Alex Jones does an incredible summary of events for the USS Liberty in Terror Storm
http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=12638

[Hugo Chavez]

Ooops, sorry I didn't see you had mentioned the Liberty above 240... I'll leave my post for the links.

[JOHN MATRIX]

guys be careful not to go overboard with the theories on everything. just cause one attack was shady doesnt mean every one in our history was

the way i figure was that we knew that 911 was going to happen, and the gov(not some super secret organization lol) simply took steps to make sure it was huge(wired the buildings beforehand). they then allowed, maybe even helped along the hijacker's plans to make sure they got it off, then when the planes hit, they 'pulled it' and made sure the buildings fell, making everything more horrific so that the public would support incursions into the middle east to secure oil for the ominous times down the road when it starts to run out.
recal that al-qaida did claim credit for the attacks but that the buildings' collapse were an unexpected bonus.thats it.
i beleive a plane, not a missle, hit the pentagon.

[OzmO]

guys be careful not to go overboard with the theories on everything. just cause one attack was shady doesnt mean every one in our history was

the way i figure was that we knew that 911 was going to happen, and the gov(not some super secret organization lol) simply took steps to make sure it was huge(wired the buildings beforehand). they then allowed, maybe even helped along the hijacker's plans to make sure they got it off, then when the planes hit, they 'pulled it' and made sure the buildings fell, making everything more horrific so that the public would support incursions into the middle east to secure oil for the ominous times down the road when it starts to run out.
recal that al-qaida did claim credit for the attacks but that the buildings' collapse were an unexpected bonus.thats it.
i beleive a plane, not a missle, hit the pentagon.

I don't i believe they helped anything along. 

The planes hitting the building would have been more then enoujgh to justify military actions abroad.

NORAD or anyone else for that matter didn't do anything deliberatly to prevent intercepters from dowing the planes.  (i know this from people who work in the FAA with the military)

Bush knew of the attack.  Simple.      And maybe there was enough evidence of this in WTC7 so they "pulled it".   

BTW   how come no explosions prior to WTC7 dropping?

[JOHN MATRIX]

I don't i believe they helped anything along. 

The planes hitting the building would have been more then enoujgh to justify military actions abroad.

NORAD or anyone else for that matter didn't do anything deliberatly to prevent intercepters from dowing the planes.  (i know this from people who work in the FAA with the military)

Bush knew of the attack.  Simple.      And maybe there was enough evidence of this in WTC7 so they "pulled it".   

BTW   how come no explosions prior to WTC7 dropping?

so what is your point? your saying they werent helped along or allowed to happen, and the hits alone would have warrented support, yet then you say bush knew all along and agree that wtc7 was demo'ed?

i agree they probably knew of the plan. they let it happen, and brought the buildings down to really shock/scare everybody

[240 is Back]

I don't i believe they helped anything along. 

The planes hitting the building would have been more then enoujgh to justify military actions abroad.

NORAD or anyone else for that matter didn't do anything deliberatly to prevent intercepters from dowing the planes.  (i know this from people who work in the FAA with the military)

Bush knew of the attack.  Simple.      And maybe there was enough evidence of this in WTC7 so they "pulled it".  

BTW   how come no explosions prior to WTC7 dropping?

There were explosions.  The camera filming from across the bay picked them all up.  I can dig up the video if you'd like.  Google video the blue media group.  The guy filmed the whole thing from across the bay and you hear many explosions that you can hear on the tivo'd CNN broadcasts of the day, but CNN removed the bomb blasts from later broadcasts.

Now, I'm afraid "what you know from FAA friends" isn't quite spot-on.  During the investigation, NORAD officials continually outright lied.  Please google it, or I can post it later when I have more time.  But they kept pointing fingers, changing story, using irrelevant arguments, and they were caught outright lying about scramble times.

Then, they had planes fly at 500 mph instead of 1875 mph, intercept speed.  And they took the long route even though the targets had been acquired.

And the FAA?  Please read up on this.  The FAA supervisor actually took the tape of the inter-agency recordings and destroyed it that AM.  Cut it up and discarded in different trash cans around the building.  When caught, he said it was because his people weren't in a very good state of mind, so the tape isn't a good representation of them.  WTF?  Also all FAA liasons to other departments with power that day are gagged for reasons of nat'l security - very comfy blanket when you have something to hide.

[240 is Back]

I don't i believe they helped anything along. 
The planes hitting the building would have been more then enoujgh to justify military actions abroad.
NORAD or anyone else for that matter didn't do anything deliberatly to prevent intercepters from dowing the planes.  (i know this from people who work in the FAA with the military)
Bush knew of the attack.  Simple.      And maybe there was enough evidence of this in WTC7 so they "pulled it".  
BTW   how come no explosions prior to WTC7 dropping?

building collapses were controlled demolition.  Please watch the towers drop in slow speed.  There are dust jets from explosions, complete symmetrical falling, concrete pulverization for the first time in history from a falling building,  steel beams being shot FIFTY STORIES SIDEWAYS from the building.  You do not get that kind of force from materials collapse.

The planes hitting might have been enough.  Maybe not.  But owner larry silverstein was overdue for a $1B asbestos overhaul to the towers, and he didn't have the cash.  Plus they were able to make a lot of gold located under the towers disappear before the collapse. 

The planes were powerful but seeing two 110 story skyscrapers collapse- that was fucking unreal.  That will stick with us forever, seeing the towers fall.  Thta got us into war.

[Mr. Intenseone]

Okay, so lets assume the therorie is correct, I recently heard (can't rememeber where) that someone said it could have been C4 explosives, if that was the case, how would someone sneak in that much C4 (I heard something like 5-10,000 C4's)? Also, there would have to be hundreds if not thousands involved in the conspiracy and if that was the case chances are excellent that someone would come forward who was involved. I still don't buy the conspiracy, there is too many conspiracy therorists that are going around and brainwashing people and almost all of these therorists have extreme Liberal backgrounds!

[JOHN MATRIX]

thats the hard part to understand, intenseone...all the people who would have to have been involved.
but its happened before, we blew up one of our own ships to get us into the spanish american war, and we incited the gulf of tonkin incident. this is not something i want to believe, and i dont believe most of the bullshit thats being put forth, but...

the buildings, wtc7 at least, was a controlled demo, and you cant argue with cold hard facts like that

[240 is Back]

Okay, so lets assume the therorie is correct, I recently heard (can't rememeber where) that someone said it could have been C4 explosives, if that was the case, how would someone sneak in that much C4 (I heard something like 5-10,000 C4's)? Also, there would have to be hundreds if not thousands involved in the conspiracy and if that was the case chances are excellent that someone would come forward who was involved. I still don't buy the conspiracy, there is too many conspiracy therorists that are going around and brainwashing people and almost all of these therorists have extreme Liberal backgrounds!

Remember these people had an unlimited budget, free reign of the buildings, access to sealed elevator shafts, and badges to answer any questions.   2.3 TRILLION was announced missing from the pentago, the day before, on sept 10th.  You could wire WTC7 at any time in the weeks before.  WTC 1 and 2 were done the weekend before.  If you had a team of 100 to 200 men, a free elevator shaft and the 4 days before (when the power was down sat/sun and elevators were clsoe S-S-M-T).  Silverstein has never been asked who the engineer team was, with lots of boxes and wires, that were seen going in and out of the building all hours of the weekend.  

If the team was foreign mercinaries, chances are less that they'd come fwd.  If the team was paid extremely well (each victim got $3.1M... imagine what these guys got!).  

The reason that CTer's have been talking so much about this, is that we've read about all the coincidences, seen how hard Bush fought it, saw the small budget they got (they spent $13M total on the investigation - and $60Mon bush' inauguration LOL), and finally, we've seen a lot of evidence that says the official story contains lies.

Lies.  For example, a big plane going into a small hole at the pentagon, drilling a perfect hole thru 3 buildings, then disappearing completely, except for a small pile of rubble.  This does not happen in any plane crash.   Flight 93 crashing - we've been lied to.  At the very least, it WAS shot down - no other reason to explai nwhy a nosediving plane would drop derbis 7 miles away, and lose its engine 2000 M away LMAO...

Mr I, do you seriously believe the plane crashed in Penn from heroes in the cockpit?  Please tell me how it's debris, onboard magazines, luggage, etc were found 7 miles away.

You can't - because the official story lies here.  And if they lie about this, what else are they lying about?  There needs to be a new investigation.

[240 is Back]

the buildings, wtc7 at least, was a controlled demo, and you cant argue with cold hard facts like that

Yep.  Anyone who will deny that WTC7 was a controlled demolition is either scared of saying it, or hasn't studies it.  500 feet of concrete and steel, converted to 20-30 feet of rubble in

And if WTC was a controlled demo... please tell me who okay'd it.  please tell me when they wired the building.  Do govt offices typically LET owners fill their offices with bombs? LOL....

[JOHN MATRIX]

Yep.  Anyone who will deny that WTC7 was a controlled demolition is either scared of saying it, or hasn't studies it.  500 feet of concrete and steel, converted to 20-30 feet of rubble in

And if WTC was a controlled demo... please tell me who okay'd it.  please tell me when they wired the building.  Do govt offices typically LET owners fill their offices with bombs? LOL....

the only possible thing i can think of is that if wtc7 really did house so many offices of agencies with sensitive info like the CIA, that maybe they had the building wired at all tiems as a last-ditch self destruct type measure in order to keep any classified info from leaking in the case of an emergency, and that 911 was just that, so maybe they 'pulled it' so nothing would get out in the chaos.

[Havenbull]

that controlled demo could not be pulled off without a team of civilian professionals.  Someone would have talked by now.