Author Topic: BET's Robert Johnson To Obama: Stop Attacking The Wealthy  (Read 5356 times)

MuscleMcMannus

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Re: BET's Robert Johnson To Obama: Stop Attacking The Wealthy
« Reply #100 on: October 04, 2011, 04:29:59 PM »
the argument was that he was not completely self made, stop back peddling.



No one is self made.  Not one single millionaire.  Unless they grew up on an island and made their money by selling shit to animals.  I'm sure the founder of BET took out government loans to go to school or got government money to attend college considering he was a po black kid from the ghetto or whatever. 

The rich love to think their success exists in a vacuum.  If it wasn't for all the black welfare moms sitting around watching BET or the stupid white teenagers sitting around watching MTV all day none of these CEO's would be making any money from their stupidity. 

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Re: BET's Robert Johnson To Obama: Stop Attacking The Wealthy
« Reply #101 on: October 04, 2011, 05:16:50 PM »
Just so we're clear: Robert Johnson didn't do shit to EARN his stature in the public eye. 

i don't know what your talking about, coach and i were talking about whether someone is completely self made in the usa, and the answer is no.  Yes he did do stuff to get his company running, but he did use government help, it's impossible not to.

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Re: BET's Robert Johnson To Obama: Stop Attacking The Wealthy
« Reply #102 on: October 04, 2011, 05:49:09 PM »
No I undertand your point.  I just think there is a significant amount of hypocrisy in it. We as a nation need to invest in EVERYONE at all socioeconomic levels.  We will rise as a nation or we will fall as a nation.  I agree government is a huge problem.  But public education has been a cornerstone of this country for a long time and rightfully so.  The problem is like everything else it's become fucked up with special interest and top heavy bureaucracy.  Just like healthcare.  So what do the rich do?  They put their kids in private school....fuck everyone else.  When in reality it's the fucking republicans AND democrats who have been screwing over public education.  And don't you live in OC anyways?  Last time I looked around there weren't too many "ghettos" and the OC has some of the best schools in the nation.  The biggest reason I'd want my kid in private school is because of all the fucking mexicans who can't speak English.  But I didn't grow up in CA public schools I grew up in Midwest public school where we had to deal with inner city blacks being bussed into the suburbs because all the city schools were so shitty.  But you  know what I managed to be a 3.8 student athlete and go on to college and become a productive tax paying member of society anyways and I wouldn't have traded my public education experience anyday for a sheltered, elitist private school education. 

Good for you and I'm not rich. I sacrifice A LOT to keep my kid in private school because I know the way the PS school systems are and I KNOW the different influences it could have on him and PERSONALLY I don't want it and I don't like it. My excuses have nothing to do with black, asian, mexican or other wise. (BTW, nice racist comment you injected there).

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Re: BET's Robert Johnson To Obama: Stop Attacking The Wealthy
« Reply #103 on: October 04, 2011, 05:58:36 PM »
I guess everyone who doesn't agree with you and your conservative right wing ideology is a liberal?  And everyone that's not a Christian is an atheist?  LMAO!  Boy you sure do you have some great critical thinking skills there chief.  You don't get it do you?  I mean you really don't get it...............first off I love you Christians...........I'm sure Jesus would love that you have two houses, a fat bank account, and put your kid through private school right?  I mean I'm sure that's exactly how Jesus would have lived his life?  LMAO! 

No one is saying you aren't entitled to the fruits of your labor although I would question just how much of a Christian you really are.  I think Jesus would say if you don't NEED two homes  you should give one to someone less fortunate or use that money to help feed the poor.  But Christians are some of the biggest hypocrites in society...........as are most religious people. 

Anyways.  this country rides together and it dies together.  You think because your kid is in private school he's going to be insulated from the world.  How's he going to deal with all those kids that grow up to be adults in public education that venture out into the world?  What do you think it's going to be like in college?  Oh wait you'll probably send him to a private bible college too right?  LMAO!

And like I said do you really think sports and athletics is going to make a damn bit of difference for some kid?  I mean let's be real how many kids do you work with that are actually going to make money from being an athlete?  Are they all going to get college scholarhips and be multimillionaire pro athletes?  There are plenty of ways to keep kids off the streets.  It's like all these stupid ass OC parents that think johnny is going to be the next Tiger Woods or Michael Jordan or Drew Breeze.......meanwhile little Johnny is spending all his time energy at baseball games and football games flunking out of grade school math while little Sing Lee and Pardesh Pinjabi are spending their weekends at Kumon learning centers  doing advanced calculus.   ::)

Again, you're talking out your ass. You're right, I chose to have two homes, just like I CHOSE not to be poor and providing for MY family is the priority not providing for someone elses family....but to just clarify, Christians give more than anyone else in country and that includes me. By your definition....if I have the money to by a house, I should just turn around and give it to someone else??? How much did you VOLUNTARILY give last year? The bible says to tithe (average in 10%) I VOLUNTARILY give substantially MORE. The government just wants to TAKE IT and do what they feel is best with MY money. I don't need MY money going towards stupid shit that the government deems worthy....like teaching other countries how wash their balls. (not made up)

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Re: BET's Robert Johnson To Obama: Stop Attacking The Wealthy
« Reply #104 on: October 04, 2011, 07:28:20 PM »
public schools are fine, do you not want your kid to socialize with black kids coach or god forbid poor kids? 
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Re: BET's Robert Johnson To Obama: Stop Attacking The Wealthy
« Reply #105 on: October 04, 2011, 07:39:11 PM »
Does it matter? They earned it. without them there would be less jobs.
Less jobs  in India maybe... ;)
The uber wealthy don't need any more Joe the Plumbers to brainwash the poor working slobs there coach.

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Re: BET's Robert Johnson To Obama: Stop Attacking The Wealthy
« Reply #106 on: October 04, 2011, 07:39:22 PM »
public schools are fine, do you not want your kid to socialize with black kids coach or god forbid poor kids? 

Public schools are anything but fine. As for socializing with black kids, that's hardly an issue. Here's a news flash, not all people who send their kids to private schools are rich. My kids have gone to private schools nearly all their lives and I'm hardly loaded.

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Re: BET's Robert Johnson To Obama: Stop Attacking The Wealthy
« Reply #107 on: October 04, 2011, 07:42:50 PM »
Public schools are anything but fine. As for socializing with black kids, that's hardly an issue. Here's a news flash, not all people who send their kids to private schools are rich. My kids have gone to private schools nearly all their lives and I'm hardly loaded.

it depends on your area, and your involvement with your kids at home, you are half the part of making them do homework read etc etc, it's not all on the school.  Public school system is great most places.

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Re: BET's Robert Johnson To Obama: Stop Attacking The Wealthy
« Reply #108 on: October 04, 2011, 07:43:50 PM »
Less jobs  in India maybe... ;)
The uber wealthy don't need any more Joe the Plumbers to brainwash the poor working slobs there coach.

hahah coach is taking a beating in this thread, but he can't stand not to stand up for the super wealthy, he loves that money, read the bible you greedy man.

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Re: BET's Robert Johnson To Obama: Stop Attacking The Wealthy
« Reply #109 on: October 04, 2011, 07:44:00 PM »
public schools are fine, do you not want your kid to socialize with black kids coach or god forbid poor kids? 

Seriously...you actually think my kids school is all white kids ::)?

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Re: BET's Robert Johnson To Obama: Stop Attacking The Wealthy
« Reply #110 on: October 04, 2011, 07:44:24 PM »
No one is self made.  Not one single millionaire.  Unless they grew up on an island and made their money by selling shit to animals.  I'm sure the founder of BET took out government loans to go to school or got government money to attend college considering he was a po black kid from the ghetto or whatever. 

The rich love to think their success exists in a vacuum.  If it wasn't for all the black welfare moms sitting around watching BET or the stupid white teenagers sitting around watching MTV all day none of these CEO's would be making any money from their stupidity. 

So what if they aren't self-made. That doesn't mean that everybody and their mama is entitled to their money, once they get rich. And how do you know he took a government loan. Could he not have worked his way through school or received a full-ride scholarship from his alma mater?

At the end of the day, all this "Tax the rich; pay your fair share" crap is just sour grapes from a bunch of lazy, whiny, shiftless liberals (regardless of skin color) who think they're entitled to the fruits of someone else's labor, simply because they have a pulse.

Did you help Robert Johnson make his millions? Did you burn the midnight oil studying? Did you take the financial risks? Did you put in 17-18 hour days at the office?

OF COURSE YOU DIDN'T!! Therefore, you don't deserve nor are you (or anyone else of the progressive bleating ilk) entitled to ONE THIN DIME of that man's money.

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Re: BET's Robert Johnson To Obama: Stop Attacking The Wealthy
« Reply #111 on: October 04, 2011, 07:44:48 PM »
hahah coach is taking a beating in this thread, but he can't stand not to stand up for the super wealthy, he loves that money, read the bible you greedy man.



No...most on here just lack commonsense.

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Re: BET's Robert Johnson To Obama: Stop Attacking The Wealthy
« Reply #112 on: October 04, 2011, 07:49:58 PM »
you just don't understand what the government provides on a daily basis for him to even start his business.

let's start with roads to drive on.  what next coach?  do you want to pave the road to your place you built, then pave the rest so the construction workers can get their to build the place, then pave roads for customers to come?  Do you want any fire department to show up in case of a fire or a police station from keeping people from robbing your business every night?  Your as dumb as a rock sorry but your are, go to college and do yourself a favor.  Did the FCC approve and allow his station to start, yes, is he self made, no.  He had an idea, and our government with their generous opportunities they allow with people tax dollars made it possible, now with less tax dollars there isn't much left for people to start their own business like this BET guy, who is NOT self made.


What matter of silliness is this? Just because you pay to pave the roads (as if you have a choice in the matter) doesn't mean you're entitled to another taxpayer's money, if he makes way more than you. If he's rich, he invests MORE in the roads than you do.

Nobody owes the government a penny more than what our laws currently state (and we have a say in those laws). This isn't about fairness. It's about laziness, jealousy, and envy by certain people with a massive entitlement complex.

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Re: BET's Robert Johnson To Obama: Stop Attacking The Wealthy
« Reply #113 on: October 04, 2011, 08:04:38 PM »
What matter of silliness is this? Just because you pay to pave the roads (as if you have a choice in the matter) doesn't mean you're entitled to another taxpayer's money, if he makes way more than you. If he's rich, he invests MORE in the roads than you do.

Nobody owes the government a penny more than what our laws currently state (and we have a say in those laws). This isn't about fairness. It's about laziness, jealousy, and envy by certain people with a massive entitlement complex.

Read and understand ...

Quote
You're missing the point you epic dumbass.  Value is created by labor.  It takes capital to put people to work.  But without labor there would never be any value created.  Capital and labor go hand in hand.  Go back and read a fucking book on capitalism.  Because you are clueless like most Americans.  And when most of us talk about rich we are not talking about small business owners who put people to work and who usually work in their business as well.  We are talking about the mega rich who sit back and trade stocks, derivatives etc.  They are not creating capital and they are not creating jobs.  They are simply redistributing wealth.  The stock market in general doesn't create wealth.......it doesn't create capital.  It's the LABORERS who create value from productive property which the rich own that creates wealth and value.  Why the fuck do you think our economy is imploding?  Because most of the wealth is in the form of numbers on a computer screen.  It means nothing.  There is only three ways to build true wealth via production.............. build it, grow it, and mine it.  If you're not doing one of those three things you'renot creating REAL tangible wealth and assets.  And the rich are hardly the ones building shit, growing shit, and mining shit. 

Capital is not "Money".  money has no worth really.  Capital is productive property.  Hence why ownership is such a cornerstone of freedom and liberty.  Owning stocks is not "capitalism".  Owning the means of production is. 

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Re: BET's Robert Johnson To Obama: Stop Attacking The Wealthy
« Reply #114 on: October 04, 2011, 08:14:45 PM »
Still trying to figure out why these liberals feel to have this need of self entitlement. Is it because they don't have the drive to seceded without help from the government? Tell us liberals.

gcb

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Re: BET's Robert Johnson To Obama: Stop Attacking The Wealthy
« Reply #115 on: October 04, 2011, 08:33:18 PM »
Still trying to figure out why these liberals feel to have this need of self entitlement. Is it because they don't have the drive to seceded without help from the government? Tell us liberals.

I'm actually doing OK at the moment.

reppingfor20

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Re: BET's Robert Johnson To Obama: Stop Attacking The Wealthy
« Reply #116 on: October 04, 2011, 08:35:37 PM »
What matter of silliness is this? Just because you pay to pave the roads (as if you have a choice in the matter) doesn't mean you're entitled to another taxpayer's money, if he makes way more than you. If he's rich, he invests MORE in the roads than you do.

Nobody owes the government a penny more than what our laws currently state (and we have a say in those laws). This isn't about fairness. It's about laziness, jealousy, and envy by certain people with a massive entitlement complex.

you overestimate anyone's envy or jealousy of the rich, most poor are very religious and do not envy rich or want to be rich, as they know that will only make their problems worse with God(getting into heaven).  I think the rich think people envy them when they don't.  Not all people want to be rich, most people want a regular life with a fair wage and a good health care plan if it isn't provided by the gov't.

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MuscleMcMannus

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Re: BET's Robert Johnson To Obama: Stop Attacking The Wealthy
« Reply #117 on: October 05, 2011, 01:03:12 AM »
What matter of silliness is this? Just because you pay to pave the roads (as if you have a choice in the matter) doesn't mean you're entitled to another taxpayer's money, if he makes way more than you. If he's rich, he invests MORE in the roads than you do.

Nobody owes the government a penny more than what our laws currently state (and we have a say in those laws). This isn't about fairness. It's about laziness, jealousy, and envy by certain people with a massive entitlement complex.

It is important to understand the economy web in a more direct manner. Though the term "self-made millionaire" is a common one, there is no such thing as a "self-made" millionaire, or a "self-made" anyone of any economic level. The only person who can be called self-made is a hermit. For example if a person starts their own pizza delivery business and then makes it successful and becomes a millionaire, many will call him "self-made," but in fact he is not "self-made" any more than a shark living in the ocean is "self-made". Both are part of a web of relationships that has to exist in order to support the individual. In order for the man to have a successful pizza business he relies on established roads, an educated public from which he can employ workers, consumers who have money to pay for the pizza, farmers who grow and market the food, etc. This is the full nature of the economy web.

What we have to understand about capitalism is that a relatively small number of people in the world own capital. At the same time, the only people in the world who actually have a stake in the value of our system are those people who do own capital. We all, every single living thing on earth, contribute to the value of our economy, but owners of capital are the ones who realize all of that value. Some of that value is paid back to workers in the form of wages, but a large portion of that value is not the product of paid labor, or even in cases where it is, for example a worker who builds a road, the "trickle down" effects of that labor are not compensated for, i.e. the worker is paid a wage to build the road, but he is not paid for the real value that he added to the other property near the road. In that case the property owner reaps the reward of all of the work done by the laborer, and the investments made by the public, and assumes none of the cost.

This of course presents a problem when it comes to the issue of economic justice.

Over the past 20 or 30 years in America ownership of capital has been consolidated into a smaller number of hands. Companies are consolidating and a smaller portion of people are owning a larger and larger portion of American capital. This is not the first time in American history that this situation has arisen, this took place at the turn of the 20th century as well, with a few wealthy capitalists such as JP Morgan, John Rockefeller, and Andrew Carnegie owning or controlling hugely significant portions of American capital. Not only did those conditions help contribute to the Great Depression, but the fact is, the conditions are simply not fair.

Capitalists, by definition, are taking advantage of work that other people do, and they are, through law, being entitled to the value added to property by other people. You buy property, you get a piece of paper that gives you rights to "ownership" of all of the value that that property represents, and then as the value of that property changes due to work done by society, you are legally entitled to all of that value. This is certainly not to say that capitalists don't serve a valuable role in the economy, they do.

That situation alone presents a problem though, however, its not a problem that cannot be dealt with within the capitalist framework, but it is a problem that must be recognized.

There is a "trickle" effect in a capitalist economy, but unlike the claims of the Reagan Administration, wealth does not trickle down, it trickles up.

 In 2001 the top 1% possessed almost 33 % of the nation's wealth, while the bottom 50% owned less than 3%.


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Re: BET's Robert Johnson To Obama: Stop Attacking The Wealthy
« Reply #118 on: October 05, 2011, 05:17:25 AM »
you overestimate anyone's envy or jealousy of the rich, most poor are very religious and do not envy rich or want to be rich, as they know that will only make their problems worse with God(getting into heaven).  I think the rich think people envy them when they don't.  Not all people want to be rich, most people want a regular life with a fair wage and a good health care plan if it isn't provided by the gov't.



Define "fair".

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Re: BET's Robert Johnson To Obama: Stop Attacking The Wealthy
« Reply #119 on: October 05, 2011, 05:22:09 AM »
when assessing the stature of robert johnson please keep in mind the gentleman is about 5'3" tall.

MCWAY

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Re: BET's Robert Johnson To Obama: Stop Attacking The Wealthy
« Reply #120 on: October 05, 2011, 05:24:28 AM »
It is important to understand the economy web in a more direct manner. Though the term "self-made millionaire" is a common one, there is no such thing as a "self-made" millionaire, or a "self-made" anyone of any economic level. The only person who can be called self-made is a hermit. For example if a person starts their own pizza delivery business and then makes it successful and becomes a millionaire, many will call him "self-made," but in fact he is not "self-made" any more than a shark living in the ocean is "self-made". Both are part of a web of relationships that has to exist in order to support the individual. In order for the man to have a successful pizza business he relies on established roads, an educated public from which he can employ workers, consumers who have money to pay for the pizza, farmers who grow and market the food, etc. This is the full nature of the economy web.

What we have to understand about capitalism is that a relatively small number of people in the world own capital. At the same time, the only people in the world who actually have a stake in the value of our system are those people who do own capital. We all, every single living thing on earth, contribute to the value of our economy, but owners of capital are the ones who realize all of that value. Some of that value is paid back to workers in the form of wages, but a large portion of that value is not the product of paid labor, or even in cases where it is, for example a worker who builds a road, the "trickle down" effects of that labor are not compensated for, i.e. the worker is paid a wage to build the road, but he is not paid for the real value that he added to the other property near the road. In that case the property owner reaps the reward of all of the work done by the laborer, and the investments made by the public, and assumes none of the cost.

This of course presents a problem when it comes to the issue of economic justice.

Over the past 20 or 30 years in America ownership of capital has been consolidated into a smaller number of hands. Companies are consolidating and a smaller portion of people are owning a larger and larger portion of American capital. This is not the first time in American history that this situation has arisen, this took place at the turn of the 20th century as well, with a few wealthy capitalists such as JP Morgan, John Rockefeller, and Andrew Carnegie owning or controlling hugely significant portions of American capital. Not only did those conditions help contribute to the Great Depression, but the fact is, the conditions are simply not fair.

Capitalists, by definition, are taking advantage of work that other people do, and they are, through law, being entitled to the value added to property by other people. You buy property, you get a piece of paper that gives you rights to "ownership" of all of the value that that property represents, and then as the value of that property changes due to work done by society, you are legally entitled to all of that value. This is certainly not to say that capitalists don't serve a valuable role in the economy, they do.

That situation alone presents a problem though, however, its not a problem that cannot be dealt with within the capitalist framework, but it is a problem that must be recognized.

There is a "trickle" effect in a capitalist economy, but unlike the claims of the Reagan Administration, wealth does not trickle down, it trickles up.

 In 2001 the top 1% possessed almost 33 % of the nation's wealth, while the bottom 50% owned less than 3%.



"Economic justice" is just a cushy euphemism for socialism (based on nothing more than ENVY and jealousy). If you could do what they do, you would have what they have.

Not all rich people were born rich or inherited it. That's how people like Limbaugh and Hannity can become multi-millionaires, despite coming from humble means. Same with people like Herman Cain.

Marie Callendar got rich, baking pies. Wally "Famous" Amos got millions, making cookies.

This whole idea that the rich (by and large) only got rich by taking advantage of other people is utter hogwash, part and parcel of a liberal/progressive mindset, fueled by envy and laziness.




MuscleMcMannus

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Re: BET's Robert Johnson To Obama: Stop Attacking The Wealthy
« Reply #121 on: October 05, 2011, 05:31:43 AM »
"Economic justice" is just a cushy euphemism for socialism (based on nothing more than ENVY and jealousy). If you could do what they do, you would have what they have.

Not all rich people were born rich or inherited it. That's how people like Limbaugh and Hannity can become multi-millionaires, despite coming from humble means. Same with people like Herman Cain.

Marie Callendar got rich, baking pies. Wally "Famous" Amos got millions, making cookies.

This whole idea that the rich (by and large) only got rich by taking advantage of other people is utter hogwash, part and parcel of a liberal/progressive mindset, fueled by envy and laziness.





OMG.  You are a fucking idiot aren't you?  That's not the point.  Let's say in 100 years  robots are doing ALL the labor of people.  Then what you fucking epic genius?  What happens then?  No one gets paid?  No one has any money to buy things?  There is no tax revenue to fund the government to provide for national defense?  You can't even grasp the basic principles of an economic system be it capitalism, socialism, whatever.  The point is there has to be a fucking basic level of redistribution at the top to keep ANY economy going, even capitalism. hence my point about a fully automated economy in which robots do all the work of people.  Can you grasp that concept or are you too fucking stupid?  Every American should be a capitalist and we should have a system in place in which every American has an equal opportunity to the capital that exists and continually exists in the US economy.  It's not about rich earning this or earning that ect.  It's about sucking up everything to where there is nothing left for anyone else.  It's already happening.  Capital is being concentrated into fewer and fewer hands.  Even Adam Smith and John Locke discussed this in their ramblings on capitalism and a free market.  Educate yourself you fool instead of buying into false paradigms.  You're just another brainwashed idiot American.