Author Topic: Obama's Health Plan - 1,000 pages read?  (Read 2438 times)

The True Adonis

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 50255
  • Fear is proof of a degenerate mind.
Re: Obama's Health Plan - 1,000 pages read?
« Reply #25 on: August 10, 2009, 04:52:02 PM »
not all of it entirely but those sure, I dont get political emails for the most part though...one thing is for sure it was alot easier for AL to do that then for you do look up the shit you did on the source and also alot more helpful in your cause...maybe you could find a youtube clip about them  ;)

Since you and the others were initially fooled by that chain email, do you worry that others will be misinformed and fooled as well?  Also, what do you think the motivation is behind these type of emails?

tonymctones

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 26520
Re: Obama's Health Plan - 1,000 pages read?
« Reply #26 on: August 10, 2009, 04:55:36 PM »
Since you and the others were initially fooled by that chain email, do you worry that others will be misinformed and fooled as well?  Also, what do you think the motivation is behind these type of emails?
hahahah where did I say i believed any of this? I told you to debate the points, again TA i prove you to be a jack ass time and time again brosky do us all a favor and go back to posting youtube videos you seem much more intelligent when you do that...

The True Adonis

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 50255
  • Fear is proof of a degenerate mind.
Re: Obama's Health Plan - 1,000 pages read?
« Reply #27 on: August 10, 2009, 04:57:53 PM »
hahahah where did I say i believed any of this? I told you to debate the points, again TA i prove you to be a jack ass time and time again brosky do us all a favor and go back to posting youtube videos you seem much more intelligent when you do that...
How can you "debate the points" when the "points of debate" are fictitious? What would be the point in treating a fairy tale as fact?  By lending credence to fiction as fact and "debating" it as such, you are legitimizing or adding to the possibility that something that blatantly is untrue might be true. 

Perhaps I am asking the wrong person this....(belief in invisible sky god and his Jewish Zombie)

tonymctones

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 26520
Re: Obama's Health Plan - 1,000 pages read?
« Reply #28 on: August 10, 2009, 05:06:23 PM »
How can you "debate the points" when the "points of debate" are fictitious? What would be the point in treating a fairy tale as fact?  By lending credence to fiction as fact and "debating" it as such, you are legitimizing or adding to the possibility that something that blatantly is untrue might be true. 

Perhaps I am asking the wrong person this....(belief in invisible sky god and his Jewish Zombie)
LOL you can show them to be fiction as AL did instead of the ignorant way you chose to act...hahahahah on the last statement..

The True Adonis

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 50255
  • Fear is proof of a degenerate mind.
Re: Obama's Health Plan - 1,000 pages read?
« Reply #29 on: August 10, 2009, 05:22:16 PM »
LOL you can show them to be fiction as AL did instead of the ignorant way you chose to act...hahahahah on the last statement..
Why do YOU think that blatant fictitious Chain Email fooled so many people so quickly here?

a_joker10

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1922
Re: Obama's Health Plan - 1,000 pages read?
« Reply #30 on: August 10, 2009, 07:39:50 PM »
Adonis,
You are using ad hominem attacks against the University.

You have not post one thing that disputes the e-mail.

Argue the facts not the messenger.

Z

tonymctones

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 26520
Re: Obama's Health Plan - 1,000 pages read?
« Reply #31 on: August 10, 2009, 07:40:52 PM »
Adonis,
You are using ad hominem attacks against the University.

You have not post one thing that disputes the e-mail.

Argue the facts not the messenger.


he doesnt know what that means...

The True Adonis

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 50255
  • Fear is proof of a degenerate mind.
Re: Obama's Health Plan - 1,000 pages read?
« Reply #32 on: August 10, 2009, 07:42:47 PM »
Adonis,
You are using ad hominem attacks against the University.

You have not post one thing that disputes the e-mail.

Argue the facts not the messenger.


Compare the actual text of the bill with the Chain Mail please.

Here is the ACTUAL text of the bill.




Page 424, Line 15:

SEC. 1233. ADVANCE CARE PLANNING CONSULTATION.

(a) MEDICARE.—

(1) IN GENERAL.—Section 1861 of the Social Security Act (42 U.S.C. 1395x) is amended—

(A) in subsection (s)(2)—

(i) by striking "and" at the end of subparagraph (DD);

(ii) by adding "and" at the end of subparagraph (EE); and

(iii) by adding at the end the following new subparagraph:

Page 425:

"(FF) advance care planning consultation (as defined in subsection (hhh)(1));"; and

(B) by adding at the end the following new subsection:

"Advance Care Planning Consultation

"(hhh)(1) Subject to paragraphs (3) and (4), the term ‘advance care planning consultation’ means a consultation between the individual and a practitioner described in paragraph (2) regarding advance care planning, if, subject to paragraph (3), the individual involved has not had such a consultation within the last 5 years. Such consultation shall include the following:

"(A) An explanation by the practitioner of advance care planning, including key questions and considerations, important steps, and suggested people to talk to.

"(B) An explanation by the practitioner of advance directives, including living wills and durable powers of attorney, and their uses.

"(C) An explanation by the practitioner of the role and responsibilities of a health care proxy.

"(D) The provision by the practitioner of a list of national and State-specific resources to assist consumers and their families with advance care planning, including the national toll-free hotline,

Page 426:

the advance care planning clearinghouses, and State legal service organizations (including those funded through the Older Americans Act of 1965).

"(E) An explanation by the practitioner of the continuum of end-of-life services and supports available, including palliative care and hospice, and benefits for such services and supports that are available under this title.

"(F)(i) Subject to clause (ii), an explanation of orders regarding life sustaining treatment or similar orders, which shall include—

"(I) the reasons why the development of such an order is beneficial to the individual and the individual’s family and the reasons why such an order should be updated periodically as the health of the individual changes;

"(II) the information needed for an individual or legal surrogate to make informed decisions regarding the completion of such an order; and

"(III) the identification of resources that an individual may use to determine the requirements of the State in which such individual resides so that the treatment wishes of that individual will be carried out if the individual is

Page 427:

unable to communicate those wishes, including requirements regarding the designation of a surrogate decisionmaker (also known as a healthcare proxy).

"(ii) The Secretary shall limit the requirement for explanations under clause (i) to consultations furnished in a State—

"(I) in which all legal barriers have been addressed for enabling orders for life sustaining treatment to constitute a set of medical orders respected across all care settings; and

"(II) that has in effect a program for orders for life sustaining treatment described in clause (iii).

"(iii) A program for orders for life sustaining treatment for a States described in this clause is a program that—

"(I) ensures such orders are standardized and uniquely identifiable throughout the State;

(II) distributes or makes accessible such orders to physicians and other health professionals that (acting within the scope of the professional’s authority under State law) may sign orders for life sustaining treatment;

Page 428:

"(III) provides training for health care professionals across the continuum of care about the goals and use of orders for life sustaining treatment; and

"(IV) is guided by a coalition of stakeholders includes representatives from emergency medical services, emergency department physcians or nurses, state long-term care association, state medical association, state surveyors, agency responsible for senior services, state department of health, state hospital association, home health association, state bar association, and state hospice association.

"(2) A practitioner described in this paragraph is—

"(A) a physician (as defined in subsection (r)(1)); and

"(B) a nurse practitioner or physician’s assistant who has the authority under State law to sign orders for life sustaining treatments.

"(3)(A) An initial preventive physical examination under subsection (WW), including any related discussion during such examination, shall not be considered an advance care planning consultation for purposes of applying the 5-year limitation under paragraph (1).

Page 429:

"(B) An advance care planning consultation with respect to an individual may be conducted more frequently than provided under paragraph (1) if there is a significant change in the health condition of the individual, including diagnosis of a chronic, progressive, life-limiting disease, a life-threatening or terminal diagnosis or life-threatening injury, or upon admission to a skilled nursing facility, a long-term care facility (as defined by the Secretary), or a hospice program.

"(4) A consultation under this subsection may include the formulation of an order regarding life sustaining treatment or a similar order.

"(5)(A) For purposes of this section, the term ‘order regarding life sustaining treatment’ means, with respect to an individual, an actionable medical order relating to the treatment of that individual that—

"(i) is signed and dated by a physician (as defined in subsection (r)(1)) or another health care professional (as specified by the Secretary and who is acting within the scope of the professional’s authority under State law in signing such an order, including a nurse practitioner or physician assistant) and is in a form that permits it to stay with the individual and be followed by health care professionals
and providers across the continuum of care;

Page 430:

"(ii) effectively communicates the individual’s preferences regarding life sustaining treatment, including an indication of the treatment and care desired by the individual;

"(iii) is uniquely identifiable and standardized within a given locality, region, or State (as identified by the Secretary); and

"(iv) may incorporate any advance directive (as defined in section 1866(f)(3)) if executed by the individual.

"(B) The level of treatment indicated under subparagraph (A)(ii) may range from an indication for full treatment to an indication to limit some or all or specified interventions. Such indicated levels of treatment may include indications respecting, among other items—

"(i) the intensity of medical intervention if the patient is pulse less, apneic, or has serious cardiac or pulmonary problems;

"(ii) the individual’s desire regarding transfer to a hospital or remaining at the current care setting;

"(iii) the use of antibiotics; and

"(iv) the use of artificially administered nutrition and hydration."

Butterbean

  • Special Guests
  • Getbig V
  • ******
  • Posts: 19326
Re: Obama's Health Plan - 1,000 pages read?
« Reply #33 on: August 10, 2009, 07:45:43 PM »

 
Pg 22 of the HC Bill MANDATES the Govt will audit the books of ALL EMPLOYERS that self insure!!


 


22
•HR 3200 IH
1 employer health care markets. Such study shall ex2
amine the following:
3 (A) The types of employers by key charac4
teristics, including size, that purchase insured
5 products versus those that self-insure.
6 (B) The similarities and differences be7
tween typical insured and self-insured health
8 plans.
9 (C) The financial solvency and capital re10
serve levels of employers that self-insure by em11
ployer size.

12 (D) The risk of self-insured employers not
13 being able to pay obligations or otherwise be14
coming financially insolvent.

15 (E) The extent to which rating rules are
16 likely to cause adverse selection in the large
17 group market or to encourage small and mid
18 size employers to self-insure
19 (2) REPORTS.—Not later than 18 months after
20 the date of the enactment of this Act, the Commis21
sioner shall submit to Congress and the applicable
22 agencies a report on the study conducted under
23 paragraph (1). Such report shall include any rec24
ommendations the Commissioner deems appropriate
25 to ensure that the law does not provide incentives
R

The True Adonis

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 50255
  • Fear is proof of a degenerate mind.