Author Topic: The Money Supply and you - meltdown or meltup?  (Read 19614 times)

Bindare_Dundat

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Re: The Money Supply and you - meltdown or meltup?
« Reply #150 on: January 08, 2021, 02:34:18 PM »
If you can get a sub forum - I would 100% be interested. I’m sure there are a ton of guys who may not post a lot here but would definitely love a place to discuss Economics.

Agreed

IroNat

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Re: The Money Supply and you - meltdown or meltup?
« Reply #151 on: January 08, 2021, 06:45:49 PM »
I perform my own calculations but it's not something i share, sorry. I post a lot of my feedback here. You will see my predictions and either i'm right or i'm a useless twit that should be ignored.

What nonsense and BS.

Bindare_Dundat

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Re: The Money Supply and you - meltdown or meltup?
« Reply #152 on: January 08, 2021, 09:27:53 PM »
What nonsense and BS.

In what way? You can't just say that and not expound on it.

IroNat

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Re: The Money Supply and you - meltdown or meltup?
« Reply #153 on: January 09, 2021, 12:00:58 PM »
In what way? You can't just say that and not expound on it.

Sure I can. 

Welcome to the Thunderdome...

(Wes, finish it!)

Zillotch

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Re: The Money Supply and you - meltdown or meltup?
« Reply #154 on: January 14, 2021, 10:59:33 PM »
'Head of the European Central Bank Christine Lagarde has called for global regulations on Bitcoin, labeling the cryptocurrency “reprehensible.”

“There has to be regulation. This has to be applied and agreed upon […] at a global level because if there is an escape that escape will be used,” she said.'

https://www.sgtreport.com/2021/01/ecb-head-christine-lagarde-calls-for-global-regulation-of-reprehensible-bitcoin/

Bindare_Dundat

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Re: The Money Supply and you - meltdown or meltup?
« Reply #155 on: January 15, 2021, 12:46:03 AM »
'Head of the European Central Bank Christine Lagarde has called for global regulations on Bitcoin, labeling the cryptocurrency “reprehensible.”

“There has to be regulation. This has to be applied and agreed upon […] at a global level because if there is an escape that escape will be used,” she said.'

https://www.sgtreport.com/2021/01/ecb-head-christine-lagarde-calls-for-global-regulation-of-reprehensible-bitcoin/

Lol, there's been so many lies that have poured out of that woman's mouth. She's the one of the last people to take seriously.  Globalist, banker scum.

Christine Lagarde convicted: IMF head found guilty of criminal charges over massive government payout.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/christine-lagarde-convicted-imf-head-found-guilty-negligence-fraud-trial-a7484586.html%3famp

Zillotch

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Re: The Money Supply and you - meltdown or meltup?
« Reply #156 on: January 15, 2021, 01:30:39 AM »
Globalist, banker scum.

they coming for ur bits... the demonization of crypto has begun.



Bindare_Dundat

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Re: The Money Supply and you - meltdown or meltup?
« Reply #157 on: January 15, 2021, 05:47:08 AM »
they coming for ur bits... the demonization of crypto has begun.

Whales bought and continue to buy  more bitcoin in record numbers during and since Mondays dip. I care more  about what they do than anything else in that video.

gib

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Re: The Money Supply and you - meltdown or meltup?
« Reply #158 on: January 15, 2021, 06:27:31 AM »
'Head of the European Central Bank Christine Lagarde has called for global regulations on Bitcoin, labeling the cryptocurrency “reprehensible.”

“There has to be regulation. This has to be applied and agreed upon […] at a global level because if there is an escape that escape will be used,” she said.'

https://www.sgtreport.com/2021/01/ecb-head-christine-lagarde-calls-for-global-regulation-of-reprehensible-bitcoin/

Really quite idiotic of her, considering that fiat physical cash is by far the single most commonly used currency for nefarious activities. (Something I explained to Mr Anabolic back in the day).

Either way, in some countries KYC is coming. No different to the rules many countries apply to fiat currency and to gold. In in that regard this arguably helps legitimize BTC and makes if far easier for banks and financial institutions to hold and offer. Once that is done Legarde can turn her attention to the evils of gold, fine art, and diamonds...

Zillotch

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Re: The Money Supply and you - meltdown or meltup?
« Reply #159 on: January 15, 2021, 03:47:15 PM »
they coming for ur bits... the demonization of crypto has begun.

'Head of the European Central Bank Christine Lagarde has called for global regulations on Bitcoin, labeling the cryptocurrency “reprehensible.”

“There has to be regulation. This has to be applied and agreed upon […] at a global level because if there is an escape that escape will be used,” she said.'

https://www.sgtreport.com/2021/01/ecb-head-christine-lagarde-calls-for-global-regulation-of-reprehensible-bitcoin/

Anatoly Aksakov, a member of the Russian State Duma, has reiterated his negative stance on Bitcoin (BTC) shortly after the cryptocurrency briefly retouched $40,000 on Jan. 14.

Aksakov also urged for strict regulations on Bitcoin, hinting that global jurisdictions should probably ban it as a payment method.

Russia has already banned crypto-powered payments effective from Jan. 1, 2021.

Aksakov stated, “It is necessary to cut off all channels for using Bitcoin to finance drug trafficking, terrorist operations, money laundering, corruption schemes, and so on.”

https://cointelegraph.com/news/bitcoin-bubble-will-pop-sooner-or-later-says-famous-russian-btc-critic

Bindare_Dundat

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Re: The Money Supply and you - meltdown or meltup?
« Reply #160 on: January 15, 2021, 03:53:35 PM »
. Once that is done Legarde can turn her attention to the evils of gold, fine art, and diamonds...

Lol. Well said.

Mayday

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Re: The Money Supply and you - meltdown or meltup?
« Reply #161 on: January 20, 2021, 01:02:17 AM »
I had a debate this week with a colleague about QE and why we have no inflation (CPI).


QE goes directly to the banks. By banks i mean the BIG banks, generally speaking it isn't the little ones.

When i say banks receive the money i mean the institution itself owns the money, not Bob CEO of Big Bank. The money sits in the account of 'big bank'.

The banks then have the ability to decide where they put that money. The Govt doesn't force them. Politicians don't force them. 'Big Bank' decides for itself and the first port of call is the sharemarket because that is the first to liquidate itself in tough times. After they pump money into the sharemarket and any other market causing them pain, the money is made available to average joe in the form of loans.

When you see trillions of QE pumped into the money supply, the answer to the question 'where is it?' is primarily the sharemarket. The sharemarket took a 30% dump and is now 5% past it's all time high during a pandemic. That takes Trillions to achieve.

The sharemarket is not part of the CPI. The sharemarket is not a metric used in order to justify to your boss why you need a wage increase (that metric would be CPI). When i say there is no inflation, this is what i am talking about. The sharmarket is not purchasing loaves of bread, milk, clothes, furniture, mobile phones etc  and thus is not influencing the CPI . Therefore, you can have trillions and trillions injected into the financial markets and virtually none of it will hit the inflation figures, GDP or velocity.


With me? Ok, so we have trillions of money sent into the money supply. We now understand that it has gone into the financial markets (as we can see). In order to begin sending that money into the economy and raise GDP and the CPI, banks need to begin spending and also providing loans. On the spending front they need to begin hiring people for projects for upgrades, new processes, regulation etc. On the loan front they need to offer lower interest rates and relax lending criteria just like they did prior to the GFC........

Currently the banks are not spending. They are not running projects and are not hiring people.

The banks have relaxed interest rates and also relaxed lending standards........ but we know from published central bank data that Average Joe has been paying off debt and saving money. Average Joe is scared of losing his job. With high unemployment numbers putting downward pressure on wages this also means many have taken a paycut in the current environment.

This is why we are not seeing crazy levels of CPI. Bread costs the same. Fuel is cheaper. clothes are cheap, internet is cheap. All the money is sitting in the big bank's account and nobody is wanting to borrow nor are the big bank's wanting to spend. Afterall, if you are a bank and your bonuses are paid on sharemarket performance, you would simply jack it to the moon and get a bonus.


Stalemate.

Right now the central banks are all tapering down QE. They believe they have done enough and it's all up to average joe to bail the economy out by taking on more debt (i'm not kidding).

What we face in 2021 is the risk of a sharemarket collapse because the banks having jacked prices of shares, without the ability to force people to take on greater debt they won't be able to float the GDP and bring the economy back online in order to validate the share prices. Without validation, you have a loss of faith and eventually capitulation as shareholders leave the market.

UBI and/or job subsidy will become very real, very quick. The govt and central banks need to address the fear they created and make average joe feel like they can spend and borrow once again.

Central banks will end up initiating trickle up economics policies to make this happen which will improve 3 key metrics - GDP, CPI, velocity. That is the solution. These are the core metrics of the health of an economy, not the sharemarket. For whatever reason some key people decided the sharemarket was the beacon of hope...... how are we doing today?

Bindare_Dundat

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Re: The Money Supply and you - meltdown or meltup?
« Reply #162 on: January 20, 2021, 03:12:37 AM »
I had a debate this week with a colleague about QE and why we have no inflation (CPI).


QE goes directly to the banks. By banks i mean the BIG banks, generally speaking it isn't the little ones.

When i say banks receive the money i mean the institution itself owns the money, not Bob CEO of Big Bank. The money sits in the account of 'big bank'.

The banks then have the ability to decide where they put that money. The Govt doesn't force them. Politicians don't force them. 'Big Bank' decides for itself and the first port of call is the sharemarket because that is the first to liquidate itself in tough times. After they pump money into the sharemarket and any other market causing them pain, the money is made available to average joe in the form of loans.

When you see trillions of QE pumped into the money supply, the answer to the question 'where is it?' is primarily the sharemarket. The sharemarket took a 30% dump and is now 5% past it's all time high during a pandemic. That takes Trillions to achieve.

The sharemarket is not part of the CPI. The sharemarket is not a metric used in order to justify to your boss why you need a wage increase (that metric would be CPI). When i say there is no inflation, this is what i am talking about. The sharmarket is not purchasing loaves of bread, milk, clothes, furniture, mobile phones etc  and thus is not influencing the CPI . Therefore, you can have trillions and trillions injected into the financial markets and virtually none of it will hit the inflation figures, GDP or velocity.


With me? Ok, so we have trillions of money sent into the money supply. We now understand that it has gone into the financial markets (as we can see). In order to begin sending that money into the economy and raise GDP and the CPI, banks need to begin spending and also providing loans. On the spending front they need to begin hiring people for projects for upgrades, new processes, regulation etc. On the loan front they need to offer lower interest rates and relax lending criteria just like they did prior to the GFC........

Currently the banks are not spending. They are not running projects and are not hiring people.

The banks have relaxed interest rates and also relaxed lending standards........ but we know from published central bank data that Average Joe has been paying off debt and saving money. Average Joe is scared of losing his job. With high unemployment numbers putting downward pressure on wages this also means many have taken a paycut in the current environment.

This is why we are not seeing crazy levels of CPI. Bread costs the same. Fuel is cheaper. clothes are cheap, internet is cheap. All the money is sitting in the big bank's account and nobody is wanting to borrow nor are the big bank's wanting to spend. Afterall, if you are a bank and your bonuses are paid on sharemarket performance, you would simply jack it to the moon and get a bonus.


Stalemate.

Right now the central banks are all tapering down QE. They believe they have done enough and it's all up to average joe to bail the economy out by taking on more debt (i'm not kidding).

What we face in 2021 is the risk of a sharemarket collapse because the banks having jacked prices of shares, without the ability to force people to take on greater debt they won't be able to float the GDP and bring the economy back online in order to validate the share prices. Without validation, you have a loss of faith and eventually capitulation as shareholders leave the market.

UBI and/or job subsidy will become very real, very quick. The govt and central banks need to address the fear they created and make average joe feel like they can spend and borrow once again.

Central banks will end up initiating trickle up economics policies to make this happen which will improve 3 key metrics - GDP, CPI, velocity. That is the solution. These are the core metrics of the health of an economy, not the sharemarket. For whatever reason some key people decided the sharemarket was the beacon of hope...... how are we doing today?

This is where I differ.

You say prices haven't gone up and that may be true  but you get less of a product these days. Less squares, thinner paper on the toilet roll, smaller english muffin for that sandwich, smaller bottlen or can, clothes are thinner and crappier quality, products in general are shit quality and dont last as long. everything is throw away shit. The infaltion is hidden from the customer in that way. No?

Mayday

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Re: The Money Supply and you - meltdown or meltup?
« Reply #163 on: January 21, 2021, 06:14:57 PM »
This is where I differ.

You say prices haven't gone up and that may be true  but you get less of a product these days. Less squares, thinner paper on the toilet roll, smaller english muffin for that sandwich, smaller bottlen or can, clothes are thinner and crappier quality, products in general are shit quality and dont last as long. everything is throw away shit. The infaltion is hidden from the customer in that way. No?

Absolutely hidden inflation and unrealised inflation are very real things.

BUt you need to treat those separately.

When you go for an annual salary review they show you the CPI and your salary increase generally speaking matches that number. You don’t say to your boss I need more money because the shirts I buy are lower quality this year or that you English muffin shrunk 2.7% etc.

The money supply and economy work off the CPI metric.  This is why it is vital to use it in the manner intended in order to get a proper understanding of what the money supply and economy are doing.

We can validate the CPI metric by using the velocity equation on the money supply. GDP divide by M2. This shows how well the money is flowing through hands in the economy. Look over history and the collapse in velocity marries up with the collapse in CPI, GDP and low wage growth.

So when discussing the economy and predicting an outcome one needs to simply accept the metrics for what they are.

Things like hidden or unrealised inflation an then be discussed separately. Most today are using unrealised inflation as if it is already here because they don’t understand that if 6T was pumped in, how could there not be inflation. Simply put, it all went to the rich (Dow Jones record high during lockdown lol) so if you aren’t rich then you didn’t get any.

Bindare_Dundat

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Re: The Money Supply and you - meltdown or meltup?
« Reply #164 on: January 21, 2021, 06:47:49 PM »
Absolutely hidden inflation and unrealised inflation are very real things.

BUt you need to treat those separately.

When you go for an annual salary review they show you the CPI and your salary increase generally speaking matches that number. You don’t say to your boss I need more money because the shirts I buy are lower quality this year or that you English muffin shrunk 2.7% etc.

The money supply and economy work off the CPI metric.  This is why it is vital to use it in the manner intended in order to get a proper understanding of what the money supply and economy are doing.

We can validate the CPI metric by using the velocity equation on the money supply. GDP divide by M2. This shows how well the money is flowing through hands in the economy. Look over history and the collapse in velocity marries up with the collapse in CPI, GDP and low wage growth.

So when discussing the economy and predicting an outcome one needs to simply accept the metrics for what they are.

Things like hidden or unrealised inflation an then be discussed separately. Most today are using unrealised inflation as if it is already here because they don’t understand that if 6T was pumped in, how could there not be inflation. Simply put, it all went to the rich (Dow Jones record high during lockdown lol) so if you aren’t rich then you didn’t get any.

I need to do alot more studying. ;D again, thanks for the explanation.

Zillotch

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Re: The Money Supply and you - meltdown or meltup?
« Reply #165 on: January 21, 2021, 09:09:16 PM »

Primemuscle

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Re: The Money Supply and you - meltdown or meltup?
« Reply #166 on: January 21, 2021, 11:55:42 PM »
This is where I differ.

You say prices haven't gone up and that may be true  but you get less of a product these days. Less squares, thinner paper on the toilet roll, smaller english muffin for that sandwich, smaller bottlen or can, clothes are thinner and crappier quality, products in general are shit quality and dont last as long. everything is throw away shit. The infaltion is hidden from the customer in that way. No?

Interesting point. Do you suppose one of the reasons for this is because the U.S. has farmed out so much of the production of goods?  It's hard to find and you'll pay a lot more when you do, but when shit is really made in America as claimed, it cost much more. Guess the question is whether we want to be a society that buys cheap and dispensable products or we are willing to pay more for products that last?

Think about this, the waste hauling company where I live provides containers for our refuse. Guess which one is the largest? It is the recycle container. Now take a look at what goes into that container. It is shit we don't need to get by, like fast food containers and various other packaging which you can't reuse in anyway.

My son lives in Germany. When he puts out the refuse, it is maybe 25% of what we put out here and the recycle is broken into more finite containers. When you go to the market there, you bring your own basket or bags. If you forget to do that, you pay for each bag you need to get it to your can and into your house. And this is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to reducing the cost of products and the need to recycle their containers.

 

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Re: The Money Supply and you - meltdown or meltup?
« Reply #167 on: January 22, 2021, 01:24:54 AM »
It's hard to find and you'll pay a lot more when you do...

Solution: buy armee stuff it has the best quality you can get.
Nearly undestroyable and a low price.

Zillotch

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Re: The Money Supply and you - meltdown or meltup?
« Reply #168 on: February 17, 2021, 11:31:09 PM »
Diem Stablecoin Prepares for Liftoff With Fireblocks Custody Partnership

https://www.coindesk.com/diem-stablecoin-prepares-for-liftoff-with-fireblocks-custody-partnership

Mayday

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Re: The Money Supply and you - meltdown or meltup?
« Reply #169 on: April 03, 2021, 02:04:48 PM »
So apparently data is showing the bottom 50% of Americans experienced their largest net wealth increase in history.

Americans also now have a huge amount of spare crash and apparently low debt.

When the economy reopens they are expecting a massive boom as all the Americans who are now crazy wealthy will go nuts and buy consumer goods and bail out the economy.

I guess this is why the US govt issued 1.9T, then 3T and is now talking about another couple of Trillion. Because it’s all going so awesome?

The reality however is the deflationary pressure is only getting worse. All that push inflation will crush people’s wages into oblivion. Your house price doubled, bread 10x, milk 10x, unemployment up and wages flat......... Germany anyone?

Zillotch

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Re: The Money Supply and you - meltdown or meltup?
« Reply #170 on: April 12, 2021, 08:55:04 PM »


notice, three things mentioned (start vid at 6:00)

bitcoin (which is dismissed as transient)

Diem

and this:

'bitcoin took off as a disrupter'

'it will b completely independent and a lot of people jumped on that train'

'as sort of an interesting idea'

'its gone up a lot and it gets lots of attention'

'but what its really doing, and this is the key point'

'what its really doing is its building an infrastructure to actually transact on'

'covid has accelerated this'

fascinating to watch this being stated out loud in the mainstream, and telling in terms of the timeline.

participation in crypto now, accelerates the infrastructure of diem.

cryptos only exist to facilitate the building out and adoption of the blockchain.

bitcoin will evaporate

Mayday

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Re: The Money Supply and you - meltdown or meltup?
« Reply #171 on: April 12, 2021, 11:13:35 PM »
They are correct in saying Covid accelerated it.

Big business can see QE and stimulus is becoming the new norm.

The Fed is still missing inflation targets and can’t get wages up as a result.

What is coming next is a huge shift to use a larger portion of stimulus into the bottom of the workforce to force wage inflation.

China’s digital coin is ready to rock. The US won’t be far away either. Expiration dates on money coming our way, who’d have thought it!

Humble Narcissist

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Re: The Money Supply and you - meltdown or meltup?
« Reply #172 on: April 13, 2021, 10:01:00 AM »
So apparently data is showing the bottom 50% of Americans experienced their largest net wealth increase in history.

Americans also now have a huge amount of spare crash and apparently low debt.

When the economy reopens they are expecting a massive boom as all the Americans who are now crazy wealthy will go nuts and buy consumer goods and bail out the economy.

I guess this is why the US govt issued 1.9T, then 3T and is now talking about another couple of Trillion. Because it’s all going so awesome?

The reality however is the deflationary pressure is only getting worse. All that push inflation will crush people’s wages into oblivion. Your house price doubled, bread 10x, milk 10x, unemployment up and wages flat......... Germany anyone?
Why would your house price double?  If you have a fixed rate mortgage it would remain the same.

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Re: The Money Supply and you - meltdown or meltup?
« Reply #173 on: April 13, 2021, 10:06:31 AM »
Why would your house price double?  If you have a fixed rate mortgage it would remain the same.

I think he meant the market value of his house doubled.

If inflation occurs, the value of the dollar decreases, which in turn means that it now takes more USD to actually purchase hard assets like real estate.

"Yesterday a gallon of milk cost $2.00, tomorrow inflation occurs and now it's worth $4.00" - kind of thing.

"1"

Humble Narcissist

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Re: The Money Supply and you - meltdown or meltup?
« Reply #174 on: April 13, 2021, 10:26:54 AM »
I think he meant the market value of his house doubled.

If inflation occurs, the value of the dollar decreases, which in turn means that it now takes more USD to actually purchase hard assets like real estate.

"Yesterday a gallon of milk cost $2.00, tomorrow inflation occurs and now it's worth $4.00" - kind of thing.

"1"
Got it.  The advantage for a homeowner during an inflationary period is paying off the house early with all that extra paper.