Test levels

[STANG50]

I went in to see my doctor for a check up yesterday. Before my appointment he had me go get blood drawn. My test level is part of the results I got yesterday. The doctor said I was normal showing 375. I asked if it wasn't on the low side of normal and he said yes because it ranges from 200 - 800. Any suggestions on how I can raise them without going on gear.

[flexingtonsteele]

how old are u?

If ur old enough u probably qualify for HRT. Check it  out

[The ChemistV2]

Combine the supplement 6-oxo by Ergo pharm (6 capsules a day) plus 2 capsules of Sci Fit's Eurycoma ectract for 6 weeks. I guarantee if you have your levels tested again, they will be much higher.

[chaos]

Combine the supplement 6-oxo by Ergo pharm (6 capsules a day) plus 2 capsules of Sci Fit's Eurycoma ectract for 6 weeks. I guarantee if you have your levels tested again, they will be much higher.

WTF is "Eurycoma"?

[The ChemistV2]

It's an herbal supplement called Eurycoma Longfolia, which has been shown to increase testoterone levels. I've tried it and it gave some serious libido increases, so I think it works well.

[Montague]

how old are u?

If ur old enough u probably qualify for HRT. Check it  out

How old do you typically have to be?
And how commonly will they prescribe it?

My PCP doesn’t even like me using protein powders.
I presume that if/when I’m one day ready for HRT, I’ll need to get a Rx from a different Dr.

[www.BrinkZone.com]

I went in to see my doctor for a check up yesterday. Before my appointment he had me go get blood drawn. My test level is part of the results I got yesterday. The doctor said I was normal showing 375. I asked if it wasn't on the low side of normal and he said yes because it ranges from 200 - 800. Any suggestions on how I can raise them without going on gear.

I would get a referral to an endocrinologist, one who specializes in male issues if possible. Being on the low end of "normal" sucks all around. Here's an article on reading and understanding blood work, as well as advice for improvements:

It's In Your Blood
by Will Brink

A down and dirty primer and intro to understanding the value of regular blood work with some strategies and pointers for optimizing hormones and other things that negatively or positively impact your health and ability to add lean body mass and minimize bodyfat levels

One topic that seems to be a never-ending source of confusion is blood, or more precisely, understanding blood work and which tests to get and why. It never fails to amaze me that the vast majority of bodybuilders and other athletes have no issue spending literally thousands of dollars on supplements (some of which have virtually no science behind them to justify their use) and gym memberships each year, but won't spend a penny on blood tests to see what's really going on with their hormones and other indicators of health (e.g., cholesterol, liver function, etc.).

This is odd considering the fact that it's those very hormones that are ultimately responsible for whether or not your hard work in the gym is a waste of time (read busting your ass and getting no place fast) or productive. Let me be as clear as possible here: if your blood chemistry is off, meaning your hormone levels are sub par, you can eat all the supplements you want, follow any fancy new routine you want, and eat all you want, and you will be spinning your wheels with little to no results!

Depending on how out of whack your hormones are, you will get less then optimal results from your hard work or virtually no results at all. Conversely, the person with naturally optimal levels of hormones, or the person that has optimized their hormone levels via external assistance (more on that later) is going to make the progress they expect from their training, nutrition, and supplement use.

Now, explaining everything there is to know about blood work, hormones, etc., is far beyond the scope of this article. What I hope to do is give people a primer, using my own recent blood tests as examples, so people understand the importance of regular blood work and will follow up by learning more about the topic via additional readings, talking to a doctor, surfing the net, and so on.

Cont:

http://www.brinkzone.com/articledetails.php?acatid=3&aid=17

[Van_Bilderass]

Combine the supplement 6-oxo by Ergo pharm (6 capsules a day) plus 2 capsules of Sci Fit's Eurycoma ectract for 6 weeks. I guarantee if you have your levels tested again, they will be much higher.

The 6-OXO will work, on paper. But it's very questionable whether it will have any positive physique effects at all. There's a big chance it will instead have a negative impact IMO. Even the study on 6-OXO failed to see any positive physique effects... the researchers speculated on reason might be because the hormone competes with testosterone at the androgen receptor. The AI's will also lower GH and IGF-1. Gaspari's Novedex study showed a 50% reduction in IGF-1, and the researchers here speculalted it could account for the lack of positive recomp effects despite a massive test boost.

What good is a nice lab result if there are no positive effects usually attributed to high test? None at all.

[tbombz]

the researchers speculated on reason might be because the hormone competes with testosterone at the androgen receptor.

could you explain this van ?

[Van_Bilderass]

I went in to see my doctor for a check up yesterday. Before my appointment he had me go get blood drawn. My test level is part of the results I got yesterday. The doctor said I was normal showing 375. I asked if it wasn't on the low side of normal and he said yes because it ranges from 200 - 800. Any suggestions on how I can raise them without going on gear.

If you suspect something's wrong or your test levels have plummeted you need more blood work and a competent doc. 'Free' test, lutenizing hormone, estrogen etc etc.

Why did you get this lab done?

Forget about supplements unless you like to experiment and possibly make things worse (the aromatase inhibitors "work", like I mentioned in the other post, while no herbal has been proven to increase test).

[Van_Bilderass]

could you explain this van ?

Here's the researcher's comment wrt the lack of body composition effects:

This lack of change even at higher testosterone levels can probably be attributed to 6OXOTM's chemical structure. By being chemically similar to testosterone, it could interact with testosterone in a competitive fashion not only at the aromatase enzyme but also at the androgen receptor in muscles. Competition at the androgen receptor would decrease testosterone's ability to bind to the receptor and stimulate muscle growth. This would explain the lack of increased muscle mass with increased testosterone concentrations. (p. 62)

[tbombz]

Here's the researcher's comment wrt the lack of body composition effects:

doesnt make any sense. all AAS are similar in structure to tesosterone and therefore would also 'compete' with testosterone at the androgen receptor. well, nott 'therefore', thats kind of common knowledge you know....AAS works through the AR... im not sure what the mean by competing with testosterone.. like i said that doesnt make sense to me. i was hoping you might understand it and be able to explain it.

[www.BrinkZone.com]

The 6-OXO will work, on paper. But it's very questionable whether it will have any positive physique effects at all. There's a big chance it will instead have a negative impact IMO. Even the study on 6-OXO failed to see any positive physique effects... the researchers speculated on reason might be because the hormone competes with testosterone at the androgen receptor. The AI's will also lower GH and IGF-1. Gaspari's Novedex study showed a 50% reduction in IGF-1,

To add, an increase in T is generally followed by a small increase  (10-30%) in IGF-1, not a reduction, so that bodes poorly for this product.

[www.BrinkZone.com]

doesnt make any sense. all AAS are similar in structure to tesosterone and therefore would also 'compete' with testosterone at the androgen receptor. well, nott 'therefore', thats kind of common knowledge you know....AAS works through the AR... im not sure what the mean by competing with testosterone.. like i said that doesnt make sense to me. i was hoping you might understand it and be able to explain it.

If the compound in question competes for the AR with T, but does not have the androgenic and or anabolic effects, what's gonna happen? You will have an anti androgen in effect, which is of course potentially bad mojo if you're interest in gaining LBM/strength. I don't know if that's the case here, just going off their hypothesis above, but it sounds like that's the direction they are going and might account for the drop in IGF=1 also, but again, a WAG on my part there.

[Van_Bilderass]

doesnt make any sense. all AAS are similar in structure to tesosterone and therefore would also 'compete' with testosterone at the androgen receptor. well, nott 'therefore', thats kind of common knowledge you know....AAS works through the AR... im not sure what the mean by competing with testosterone.. like i said that doesnt make sense to me. i was hoping you might understand it and be able to explain it.

I'm not a scientist but, to my understanding, different steroids activate different genes. 6-OXO then apparently wouldn't lead to anabolism after binding, presumably because it doesn't activate the 'proper' genes. It would just compete with test at the AR. If someone understands this better please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Van_Bilderass]

To add, an increase in T is generally followed by a small increase  (10-30%) in IGF-1, not a reduction, so that bodes poorly for this product.

It's funny how Gaspari and Ergopharm are so proud of these "successful" studies, proving their products work. Doesn't look successful to me. How can anyone think these are good products after looking at the data? What exactly do they do? I've asked some 'reps' on bb.com and haven't had one good answer.Maybe useful in a PCT situation, but as anabolics? 

[www.BrinkZone.com]

I'm not a scientist but, to my understanding, different steroids activate different genes. 6-OXO then apparently wouldn't lead to anabolism after binding, presumably because it doesn't activate the 'proper' genes. It would just compete with test at the AR. If someone understands this better please correct me if I'm wrong.

Gene transcription is going to be farther down the pathway there, but it can simply be viewed as I wrote above, assuming they are correct about competing for the AR. Beyond that, it gets complicated real fast as you get into things like binding affinities, tissue specificity, non AR mediated effects, KM, etc, etc.

[www.BrinkZone.com]

How can anyone think these are good products after looking at the data?

You answered your own question. People don't look the data, assuming there is any in the first place, which 99% of the time, there is none.

[The ChemistV2]

From my own use of 6-oxo, I have noticed a big increase in Libido for about 6 weeks on it, then the effects tend to diminish. I also notice my physique takes on a much harder appearence. Did I gain a lot of size from it? No. Did my test levels significantly increase? Not sure, but it"felt" as if they did. A friend who is about my age, mid 40's, also noticed the same effects as me. I've been cycling it for about 3 years, and my test levels seem to be much better than most other people my age I speak to. I've been training drug free for over 20 years and I still look pretty close to this (taken when I was 35). New pics coming soon.

[tbombz]

okay, that makes sense, BUT, not really. does anybody have a rough estimate of the # of andro recpetors on a given amount of tissue? im willing to bet that the amount of of AR in the body is overwhelming in comparison to the amount of testosterone. there should be ample recepetors for both testosterone, 6oxo, and whatever the hell else you want to throw into the body.

[www.BrinkZone.com]

okay, that makes sense, BUT, not really.

Yes, really. As I said, beyond that, a few issues of which were mentioned above, it gets real complicated real fast.

[tbombz]

no need to get curt, will.

any idea the # of AR in a given amount of tissue? how many AR a given mg of andro can bind to ?

[www.BrinkZone.com]

no need to get curt, will.

any idea the # of AR in a given amount of tissue? how many AR a given mg of andro can bind to ?

Different tissues have different AR densities and it's just not as simple as X amount of AR + Y mg of andro =  simple conclusions we can make here. The point being, if the compound in question here competing for the AR (as researcher hypothesized),  is having a net anti androgen effect, the outcome will not be what bbers want. You can even have a compound that acts an an antagonist in one tissue and an agonist in another, so it takes a detailed look at the compound to come to any real conclusions here beyond what we have to go on,

[tbombz]

Different tissues have different AR densities and it's just not as simple as X amount of AR + Y mg of andro =  simple conclusions we can make here.

of course, thats why i asked for a rough estimate.. for example, ar density increases in the presence of andro, and in the presence of estro...

[The ChemistV2]

Yes, really. As I said, beyond that, a few issues of which were mentioned above, it gets real complicated real fast.

Seems to be an overcomplication of a simple compound that has been clearly demonstrated to inhibit the aromatase enzyme, lower estrogen and raise testosterone levels. From noticing an increase in my testicular size while on it, I would guess leutinizing hormone is also increased possibly to some degree. Obviously, the compound won't raise testosterone levels beyond supraphysiological levels, so it won't come close to giving steroid like effects. But that wasn't what this post was about. Instead of going the usual medical route, which means they will probably put this guy on hormone replacement, which means he has to stay on it for life, or he'll be even more supressed when he comes off, I suggested two compounds which I have noticed positive results in terms of higher hormone levels. What would he have to lose by trying a 6 week cycle of it and then having his hormones tested again? Worse case scenario, it didn't help. Best case, he found a way to make his own body produce more test instead of having to have it replaced forever. And I would love to see the study that says 6-oxo competes for any androgen receptors.