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Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Mixed Martial Arts (MMA/UFC) => Topic started by: Bodybuilder Lex Reeves on September 28, 2011, 08:31:54 AM
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I was at my nephew's watching this UFC nonsense. A bunch of oily Brazilians and white trash humping each other. Garbage. I would pit my Black Belt in Kempo against one of these clowns any day of the week. One knife hand chop to the throat and the these Gracie characters are rendered helpless. There is no match for a traditional Karate master.
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you are looking at it from the wrong angle. this is sport for these guys and not survival.
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WHat happens when they grab your arm and break it before you can even attempt one of your "chops"
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you are looking at it from the wrong angle. this is sport for these guys and not survival.
That's good then. Because they wouldn't survive real Karate.
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I was at my nephew's watching this UFC nonsense. A bunch of oily Brazilians and white trash humping each other. Garbage. I would pit my Black Belt in Kempo against one of these clowns any day of the week. One knife hand chop to the throat and the these Gracie characters are rendered helpless. There is no match for a traditional Karate master.
you are lost, duck under your knife hand chop grab your legs take you down sit on top of you and punch you in the face, could you explain how your karate would get you out of this situation.
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As we've seen any standup fighter without great takedown defense and defensive grappling knowledge is going to lose rather quickly.
and I thought it was KENPO karate ;)
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As we've seen any standup fighter without great takedown defense and defensive grappling knowledge is going to lose rather quickly.
and I thought it was KENPO karate ;)
Run a google son.
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i favour the Pride Fighting
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Former MMA champ Lyoto Machida is a black belt in karate. He employs a lot of karate in his striking....he lost the title at 205lbs when a Brazilian named Mauricio "Shogun" Rua knocked his ass out in less than one round....
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When I saw this fight in UFC 2, it kind of settled the whole traditional karate vs. real fighting bullshit. This guy was super high ranked "NINJA"
Pat Smith v. Ninja If someone can embed this, it's great.
http://www.sportpost.com/video/view/Patrick+Smith+vs+Scott+Morris++UFC+2
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I agree to a degree: If a traditional arts practicioner understands and expects a possible "take down", he can beat a typcial MMA warrior in the street in most instances.
However, as was said, MMA, as it exists in the UFC, etc., is a sport.
Do you think the military teaches MMA as most know it to its special forces units? HELL NO. Totally a waste of time, energy and way too involved. Kill or maim the enemy and move the frick on.
To roll around with some guy (or bob and weave in a dance) for five minutes isn't remotely practical in a war/survival scenario.
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I was at my nephew's watching this UFC nonsense. A bunch of oily Brazilians and white trash humping each other. Garbage. I would pit my Black Belt in Kempo against one of these clowns any day of the week. One knife hand chop to the throat and the these Gracie characters are rendered helpless. There is no match for a traditional Karate master.
wow. so go make your way to the UFC and make millions beating up UFC champs then. god luck.
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wow. so go make your way to the UFC and make millions beating up UFC champs then. god luck.
The UFC is a sporting federation.
Hope this helps.
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Fortress is the guy who thinks some fatass powerlifters would stand a chance against a seasoned professional mixed martial artist in a street fight ::)
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I was at my nephew's watching this UFC nonsense. A bunch of oily Brazilians and white trash humping each other. Garbage. I would pit my Black Belt in Kempo against one of these clowns any day of the week. One knife hand chop to the throat and the these Gracie characters are rendered helpless. There is no match for a traditional Karate master.
I have trained in a very traditional style of kung fu called Choy Li Fut from 1978. I fought in many open competitions and even won a few when I lived in Australia, and I spent from November 1991 - August 1992 in South East Asia where I fought in open full contact competitions in Malaysia, the Philippines and Borneo, against silat, tkd, karate, muay thai, judo/jujutsu and other kung fu fighters. We were not allowed to attack the eyes or throat, or stomp on a downed opponent. Everything else was fair game, groin included.
I really thought I'd seen it all, and I thought I knew how to fight. Then came the first UFC and I saw people being taken down and choked, arm-barred, leglocked etc, and my first thought was "It would never happen to me". But you know what? I'd had so many disappointments and revelations with pretty much every traditional style, including my own, by that stage, I went and sought out a grappler, just to see if I really could stay on my feet, and i proceeded to get my arse handed to me.
I say this with the utmost respect from my perspective of someone with 33 years training. Most traditional styles are full of people who have no idea about fighting and are so ego bound they have no desire to learn. The brazilian concept of 'vale tudo' is the best thing to happen to martial arts/martial sport in a very long time. I don't think there is a lot technically wrong with traditional martial arts, but to think they teach you all you need to know about fighting, without being modified/adjusted and trained accordingly, is naive at best and ignorant at worst.
If you really think hitting someone in the throat who is intent on hitting you back or taking you to the ground is easy, I suggest you try and do for real and see what happens. I've been there. I've tried it. It's not like the movies.
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Allow headbutting in MMA and 90 percent of BJJ moves from the guard(on your back) are rendered useless when you're trying to control a guys limbs and he's raining headbutts from the top position.
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Fortress is the guy who thinks some fatass powerlifters would stand a chance against a seasoned professional mixed martial artist in a street fight ::)
Yep, that's me.
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I'm a bit partial to martial arts that use weapons. ;D
8)
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I have trained in a very traditional style of kung fu called Choy Li Fut from 1978. I fought in many open competitions and even won a few when I lived in Australia, and I spent from November 1991 - August 1992 in South East Asia where I fought in open full contact competitions in Malaysia, the Philippines and Borneo, against silat, tkd, karate, muay thai, judo/jujutsu and other kung fu fighters. We were not allowed to attack the eyes or throat, or stomp on a downed opponent. Everything else was fair game, groin included.
I really thought I'd seen it all, and I thought I knew how to fight. Then came the first UFC and I saw people being taken down and choked, arm-barred, leglocked etc, and my first thought was "It would never happen to me". But you know what? I'd had so many disappointments and revelations with pretty much every traditional style, including my own, by that stage, I went and sought out a grappler, just to see if I really could stay on my feet, and i proceeded to get my arse handed to me.
I say this with the utmost respect from my perspective of someone with 33 years training. Most traditional styles are full of people who have no idea about fighting and are so ego bound they have no desire to learn. The brazilian concept of 'vale tudo' is the best thing to happen to martial arts/martial sport in a very long time. I don't think there is a lot technically wrong with traditional martial arts, but to think they teach you all you need to know about fighting, without being modified/adjusted and trained accordingly, is naive at best and ignorant at worst.
If you really think hitting someone in the throat who is intent on hitting you back or taking you to the ground is easy, I suggest you try and do for real and see what happens. I've been there. I've tried it. It's not like the movies.
Good post.
I have trained in Hung Fa Yi Kung Fu and, no, it isn't easy to win with only strikes of a traditional type. I have worked as a doorman/bouncer for many years and can also state that MMA sporting events do not allow several key fighting choices that, when used effectively and without restraint, do much to nullify most BJJ submission/lock moves.
Factor in supreme size, strength and aggression, and a great many of these Tap-Out warriors are left with injury and smashed egos.
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Good post.
I have trained in Hung Fa Yi Kung Fu and, no, it isn't easy to win with only strikes of a traditional type. I have worked as a doorman/bouncer for many years and can also state that MMA sporting events do not allow several key fighting choices that, when used effectively and without restraint, do much to nullify most BJJ submission/lock moves.
Factor in supreme size, strength and aggression, and a great many of these Tap-Out warriors are left with injury and smashed egos.
If you've worked the door then you've modified what you've learned and you've had no choice but to go all out on occasion. This is 'real' reality training. I take offense at the typical traditionalist who free spars 3 nights a week thinking that in the same situation, they will perform the same way with equal effectiveness.
The mma craze is not the be all and end all of combatives - but as an avenue to pressure test the majority of your techniques and your psychological state, mma is excellent. And lets not forget - it IS a sport. That means it is a testing ground for people with skill and athletic ability to go against other people who are equally skilled and athletic,to see who can make their shit work best.
You put a traditionalist from a self defense based style in against someone like that - they should lose every.. single.. time. It's not the same thing - yet so many knuckleheads think it is.
I have spent almost my entire life studying and teaching kung fu and tai chi. I love them and will continue them until I am dead, but I am under no illusions as to what is and is not effective in the things I have learned. I have many many friends from many many traditional styles of martial arts. Some of them appreciate what mma has done for the martial arts. Some of them are still living under a rock.
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::)
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I will also add this, just because I think it's worth noting. I've visited more schools than I care to think about. Many (not all) traditional martial art dojos/kwoons/dojangs had members who thought they were the shit and acted like arrogant arsewipes.
In the sportfighting clubs I've been in, I have rarely seen this attitude at all. Most people were very friendly and welcoming. This goes equally for Singapore, Germany where I now live, Australia and even Japan. The only 'traditional' place I can think of that was as welcoming as the newer hybrid schools was Thailand, but the thai boxers are pretty secure in what they do anyway.
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WHat happens when they grab your arm and break it before you can even attempt one of your "chops"
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WHat happens when they grab your arm and break it before you can even attempt one of your "chops"
Then they get their hand shattered trying.
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Allow headbutting in MMA and 90 percent of BJJ moves from the guard(on your back) are rendered useless when you're trying to control a guys limbs and he's raining headbutts from the top position.
pretty sure headbutting was allowed in the first UFC's.......you know the ones that Royce Gracie won
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you also forgetting that UFC rules.....i.e the gloves hinder Jiu Jitsu
It makes it harder to control your opponents wrists and ankles.....an harder to control the body..
The gloves also protect your hands........so you are more likely to throw more blows to the head without hurting yourself.
Watch some Vale Tudo videos if you want a more realistict street fight..--no gloves..hardly any rules..
See how your karate does there
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i agree with you politically lex, but you would prob die if u wipped out the kar ra ta on one of those guys.
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Headbutts...nutshots...e lbows to the back of the neck...it was pretty much all legal in the early UFC. Now they have weight classes and don't even allow a 12-6 elbow to an opponenet on the ground
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There is no match for a traditional Karate master.
Except for Mauricio Shogun Ruas. Just ask Lyoto Machida. ;)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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lol now that's some subtle trolling ::)
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Former MMA champ Lyoto Machida is a black belt in karate. He employs a lot of karate in his striking....he lost the title at 205lbs when a Brazilian named Mauricio "Shogun" Rua knocked his ass out in less than one round....
you do know that lyoto himself is also brazilian?
and that lyoto beat shogun aswell... they are 1-1.
it is lyoto his karate stance that makes him hard to hit. he leans back when kicking and striking.
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folk style wrestling. you'll be aight.
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i favour the Pride Fighting
Agreed. I miss Pride FC.
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you also forgetting that UFC rules.....i.e the gloves hinder Jiu Jitsu
It makes it harder to control your opponents wrists and ankles.....an harder to control the body..
The gloves also protect your hands........so you are more likely to throw more blows to the head without hurting yourself.
Watch some Vale Tudo videos if you want a more realistict street fight..--no gloves..hardly any rules..
See how your karate does there
that is why you have bjj without kimono as well.... no gi bjj
it is really not the gloves that hinder, they are grappling gloves you know?????
it is the fact that without a kimono certain moves are difficult to perform.
hence no gi bjj (without kimono) , really designed towards mma competition.
agreed about karate being useless in a mma fight. it is an martial ART... emphasis on ART.
a lot of moves are really useless and even dumb to do in a fight.... same goes for kung fu, tkd is even worse....aikido whatever.... etc etc..
mma is designed as a complete martial sport, fighting standing and ground fighting, pankration.....the old greeks were doing it already.
and there is a reason that wrestlers and bjj guys perform well in mma.... it is effective!
look at the average streetfight..... 90% of the time it ends on the ground.
and if you want real effectiveness in real life fighting there is krav maga.... but that is impossible to do in competion, because people will really get hurt... lol....
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I was at my nephew's watching this UFC nonsense. A bunch of oily Brazilians and white trash humping each other. Garbage. I would pit my Black Belt in Kempo against one of these clowns any day of the week. One knife hand chop to the throat and the these Gracie characters are rendered helpless. There is no match for a traditional Karate master.
lol, i just pissed myself laughing.. thanks ;D
oh, and you're probably right.. lol
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90% of the time it ends on the ground.
::)
I already explained why .
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::)
I already explained why .
well, it may be because i am tired and not thinking very clearly, but i can not seem to find a post of yours in this thread explaining anyting... lol...
if you are talking about another thread.... i almost have no time these days to spent on gb anymore man... so forgive me for not knowing what you are talking about... ;D
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well, it may be because i am tired and not thinking very clearly, but i can not seem to find a post of yours in this thread explaining anyting... lol...
if you are talking about another thread.... i almost have no time these days to spent on gb anymore man... so forgive me for not knowing what you are talking about... ;D
I'm sorry OptimusPrime1980, I didn't mean to blow up at you, I apologize.
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I was at my nephew's watching this UFC nonsense. A bunch of oily Brazilians and white trash humping each other. Garbage. I would pit my Black Belt in Kempo against one of these clowns any day of the week. One knife hand chop to the throat and the these Gracie characters are rendered helpless. There is no match for a traditional Karate master.
dude your retarted, your fuckin 15 years of fairy tale kempo skills will go down to shit when u got a good wrestler pick your ass up and slam you on your ribs, MMA exposed traditional martial arts, plus to be a MMA fighter one has to be an athlete first abd foremost, if u u dont believe me, get in the CAGE, and youll see
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Delusional like this guy.
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I'm sorry OptimusPrime1980, I didn't mean to blow up at you, I apologize.
at least make it look like you mean it.. lol...
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I was at my nephew's watching this UFC nonsense. A bunch of oily Brazilians and white trash humping each other. Garbage. I would pit my Black Belt in Kempo against one of these clowns any day of the week. One knife hand chop to the throat and the these Gracie characters are rendered helpless. There is no match for a traditional Karate master.
This has already been settled in the cage you dumb ass. You can be a head-crushing kempo karate savage, but if you don't have take down defense or enough BJJ knowledge to defend submissions, you're going to get ground & pounded into unconsciousness or chocked out.
If you could only know one martial art and have no knowledge of the others, this is the order of effectiveness:
1. BJJ
2. Wrestling
3. Muay Thai
4. Karate
5. Judo
6. Boxing
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This has already been settled in the cage you dumb ass. You can be a head-crushing kempo karate savage, but if you don't have take down defense or enough BJJ knowledge to defend submissions, you're going to get ground & pounded into unconsciousness or chocked out.
If you could only know one martial art and have no knowledge of the others, this is the order of effectiveness:
1. BJJ
2. Wrestling
3. Muay Thai
4. Karate
5. Judo
6. Boxing
very difficult to put together a top 6 like this.
bjj is very effective once on the ground, but bjj guys really are not THAT great at getting a guy to the ground, an the fight starts standing. wrestlers are alot better at getting a guy to the ground.
i would put boxing higher as well, and karate a lot lower.... it sucks....lol!
but again , it depends the individual as well....
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This has already been settled in the cage you dumb ass. You can be a head-crushing kempo karate savage, but if you don't have take down defense or enough BJJ knowledge to defend submissions, you're going to get ground & pounded into unconsciousness or chocked out.
If you could only know one martial art and have no knowledge of the others, this is the order of effectiveness:
1. BJJ
2. Wrestling
3. Muay Thai
4. Karate
5. Judo
6. Boxing
For the sport of mma, this list makes sense. For true street survival self defense, your list is horrible.
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For the sport of mma, this list makes sense. For true street survival self defense, your list is horrible.
Actually it's the other way around. For MMA, my list would be different, because most guys are well rounded enough to defend takedowns and avoid basic sub attempts. When it comes to MMA, wrestling is most important. It allows you to dictate where you want the fight to go. If you're fighting someone with a strong submission game, you can sprawl & brawl. If you're fighting a killer striker, you can take it to the ground and go from there.
In a street fight, you're not likely fighting someone with any kind of real skill. Rather than stand and throw punches with some idiot, I would rather close in and quickly choke the guy.
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Actually it's the other way around. For MMA, my list would be different, because most guys are well rounded enough to defend takedowns and avoid basic sub attempts. When it comes to MMA, wrestling is most important. It allows you to dictate where you want the fight to go. If you're fighting someone with a strong submission game, you can sprawl & brawl. If you're fighting a killer striker, you can take it to the ground and go from there.
In a street fight, you're not likely fighting someone with any kind of real skill. Rather than stand and throw punches with some idiot, I would rather close in and quickly choke the guy.
"Closing in and quickly choking the guy" is easier said than done. And if I have a weapon or two in my possession (as I personally often do) you may come to regret bringing the fight into the range of close quarters. ;)
I think ANY ground wrestling art that emphasizes staying on the ground is 2nd choice in a street setting — that’s just my personal opinion based on the fours years I spent working in prison. You need some ground (enough to enable you to get up!) but you also need something that works standing. I saw too many inmates (and a couple guards too) get bum-rushed in prison. Once the defender was on the ground they’d just swarm the guy on the ground and put the boots to him until we broke it up. – Bob Patterson
Back in the long-since-gone prison days I saw many groups of inmates who specifically tried to get their victim on the ground. Why? Because it was easier to put the boots to him! This even happened to one correctional officer who had boxed and who had also wrestled in college. He ended up with a separated shoulder and ruptured testicle. Granted, he did put one of the inmates in the hospital but were it not for other officers saving the day, he admitted that he was about done for. My point is that if you end up on the ground in a street setting you probably want to get back up and quick! Especially if there is more than one attacker. - B.P.
Standing up IS different than going to the ground in a street setting. Yes, you can get swarmed standing up. Yes, again that you can even get pinned against an obstacle or tied up in a standing clinch while others beat on you. This is all true. However, the one thing you can’t do on the ground is “stick-and-move”. Period.
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Boxing is the most important art in a streetfight then wrestling. You don't want to be going down on the ground in a streetfight!
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Boxing is the most important art in a streetfight then wrestling. You don't want to be going down on the ground in a streetfight!
Wrong! All the boxing skills in the world won't do shit for you if you can't stay on your feet.
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"Closing in and quickly choking the guy" is easier said than done. And if I have a weapon or two in my possession (as I personally often do) you may come to regret bringing the fight into the range of close quarters. ;)
I think ANY ground wrestling art that emphasizes staying on the ground is 2nd choice in a street setting — that’s just my personal opinion based on the fours years I spent working in prison. You need some ground (enough to enable you to get up!) but you also need something that works standing. I saw too many inmates (and a couple guards too) get bum-rushed in prison. Once the defender was on the ground they’d just swarm the guy on the ground and put the boots to him until we broke it up. – Bob Patterson
Back in the long-since-gone prison days I saw many groups of inmates who specifically tried to get their victim on the ground. Why? Because it was easier to put the boots to him! This even happened to one correctional officer who had boxed and who had also wrestled in college. He ended up with a separated shoulder and ruptured testicle. Granted, he did put one of the inmates in the hospital but were it not for other officers saving the day, he admitted that he was about done for. My point is that if you end up on the ground in a street setting you probably want to get back up and quick! Especially if there is more than one attacker. - B.P.
Standing up IS different than going to the ground in a street setting. Yes, you can get swarmed standing up. Yes, again that you can even get pinned against an obstacle or tied up in a standing clinch while others beat on you. This is all true. However, the one thing you can’t do on the ground is “stick-and-move”. Period.
Oh brother, now we're bringing weapons into the debate ::) Closing in is very easy if you know what you're doing...very easy.
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Wrong! All the boxing skills in the world won't do shit for you if you can't stay on your feet.
he was saying streetfight..... changes that you get in a streetfight with a capable fighter are slim...
boxing skills are very, very important!!!
to get you to the ground, a dude has to get near you... right in the strikezone...
i train mma, jiu jitsu, and muay thai and boxing.. boxing is by far the most difficult and very important.
even in mma! if i could choose 2 sports it would be boxing mixed with wrestling, gets you very far in mma...
a jiu jitsu guy has a very tough time getting people to the ground, once there though it is lights out... ;D
a wrestler stays on his feet very very well! combine that with lightning fast striking and hard punches.... = ko machine....
a fight always starts standing!
mma would be far more exciting without the endless rolling around imo.
should be a rule max 1 minute of rolling.....
not applied when a guy delivers decent ground and pound off course...
just endless , dumbass rolling...or pushing a dude against the cage for minutes.... = boring... ;D
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Wrong! All the boxing skills in the world won't do shit for you if you can't stay on your feet.
I've seen and been in my fair share of bar fights and scraps. Everyone has lasted well under a minute! It's usually a few punches thrown, whoever hits the quickest and hardest usually wins! What are you gonna do shoot a double on someone in the middle of a bar or in the alley when other people are standing around who can kick you in the head ::) Wrestling is good to know but I would much rather have skilled hands you can end the fight right away!
How many fights do you see where people actually have room to go for takedowns maybe in the backyard! MMA isn't streetfighting!
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mma would be far more exciting without the endless rolling around imo.
should be a rule max 1 minute of rolling.....
not applied when a guy delivers decent ground and pound off course...
just endless , dumbass rolling...or pushing a dude against the cage for minutes.... = boring... ;D
They should use the yellow card rule like pride.
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This has already been settled in the cage you dumb ass. You can be a head-crushing kempo karate savage, but if you don't have take down defense or enough BJJ knowledge to defend submissions, you're going to get ground & pounded into unconsciousness or chocked out.
If you could only know one martial art and have no knowledge of the others, this is the order of effectiveness:
1. BJJ
2. Wrestling
3. Muay Thai
4. Karate
5. Judo
6. Boxing
not a very good list for being a complete fighter.
1.standup (not just your standard boxing, thai and karate. they have some aspects of a complete fighter but there is so much more that
different ways of attacking and defending your opponent that those styles do not teach)
1. wrestling (you must have wrestling no ifs or buts about it. you want to keep the fight standing you have to earn the right.
or if a fighter has better stand up then you take him down)
2. submission (there are all different types of submission style but they all pretty much come from japanese jj.
shamrock fought gracie i think for the second time and he learnt the blue print to pretty much stuff most submission attempt from the guard)
standup and wrestling are pretty much what you need to be a successfull fighter.
learning submissions is important for when you have to defend and when you thats your last resort to win
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I've seen and been in my fair share of bar fights and scraps. Everyone has lasted well under a minute! It's usually a few punches thrown, whoever hits the quickest and hardest usually wins! What are you gonna do shoot a double on someone in the middle of a bar or in the alley when other people are standing around who can kick you in the head ::) Wrestling is good to know but I would much rather have skilled hands you can end the fight right away!
How many fights do you see where people actually have room to go for takedowns maybe in the backyard! MMA isn't streetfighting!
this man has obviously been in a bar fight and when you have little room to move you better know how to box or have a heavy punch.
but with that being said if you take the fight outside thats a whole nother ball game
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Wrong! All the boxing skills in the world won't do shit for you if you can't stay on your feet.
Wrong! All the wrestling skills in the world won't do shit for you if you get knocked the hell out.
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Oh brother, now we're bringing weapons into the debate ::) Closing in is very easy if you know what you're doing...very easy.
Weapons don't exist in the real world? ::) The threat of a second attacker doesn't exist in the real world? ::) ::)
idiot