National Level Super-Heavyweight Contest Cycle

[galeniko]

people are stupid gal, you brought up 2 good points here that i will add to. 1. it weakens your gear, yes it does, without estrogen expect a fraction of your gear`s work to go down the drain and 2 is it worth it overall to dry out.

Here is how it goes, estrogen is your friend and so is water retention health wise, no not physique wise, but for health reasons your body elevates estrogen levels and for health reasons you body retains water. Go against this and there will be issues and discomfort.

Now the solution is quick burst at a time, not 60 day protocols, we are talking 2 weeks max, this is the best way to take adex hands down, 2 weeks is all you need for it to do its job.

yah i feel its best for the last bits of fat and water, dont see other uses.
it lays the foundation to get rid of those last stubborn spots like nothing else, but it def weakens the gear,will be happy to get a pump once in a while on low gear doses.
it has def backlash when going off it, but oh well such is life.

[OTHstrong]

lay this out for me bro im curious. i know you know your shit when it comes to depletion.

I will say something here that will surprise everyone. I LOVE ESTROGEN AND I LOVE WATER RETENTION.  I do not wear tight shirts and I stay covered up so for me all that matters is my final destination, the day of ``what I am aiming for`` and with water retention and estrogen I am lifting like a machine and loving the low cal diets and staying clear of a lot of discomfort.

Now my approach; the body can reduce estrogen in 1 week, that is how fast it can happen So the second week i cut sodium and deplete water levels and the process takes a week as well, this is a 2 week approach for the purpose of adex, but I would also take letro as it takes on a slightly different angle.

.5 adex daily and 1.25 letro daily and the 2 week drop is 15 lb or more.

I understand if someone is using for gyno but I did my gyno surgery so I do not use any AI`s for that purpose.

Also estrogen takes a month to build up so after those 2 weeks, you can benefit from adex for an additional 2 weeks before noticing any real changes.

To be honest taking adex for the whole 12 week contest prep is absolutely pointless.

[no one]

I will say something here that will surprise everyone. I LOVE ESTROGEN AND I LOVE WATER RETENTION.  I do not wear tight shirts and I stay covered up so for me all that matters is my final destination, the day of ``what I am aiming for`` and with water retention and estrogen I am lifting like a machine and loving the low cal diets and staying clear of a lot of discomfort.

Now my approach; the body can reduce estrogen in 1 week, that is how fast it can happen So the second week i cut sodium and deplete water levels and the process takes a week as well, this is a 2 week approach for the purpose of adex, but I would also take letro as it takes on a slightly different angle.

.5 adex daily and 1.25 letro daily and the 2 week drop is 15 lb or more.

I understand if someone is using for gyno but I did my gyno surgery so I do not use any AI`s for that purpose.

Also estrogen takes a month to build up so after those 2 weeks, you can benefit from adex for an additional 2 weeks before noticing any real changes.

To be honest taking adex for the whole 12 week contest prep is absolutely pointless.

yes!

see i love that look. that big round full lean look. but im going to mexico in 3 weeks, and have been less than strict on my diet. fucking muffins. anyway, im thinking fuck it i should run adex and dry out, but then i wont have that fullness im such a big fan of. love that 3D round look and i get really stringy very easily so maybe 'll just leave well enough alone. i'll be as lean as i was this summer. that'll be good enough.

thnaks for taking the time to lay that out dude. 'for future reference' material right there.

[no one]

actually fuck it im going to do it.

[OTHstrong]

actually fuck it im going to do it.

lol, good stuff,   

[dustin]

yeah its not about whether it can kill off estrogen entirely, it sure comes close enough, its what gonna happen to the cholesterol levels.

i soemtimes have the feeling it makes the gear itself weaker, or feel weaker, weird, hard to explain.

very interesting,yet no overly suprising, that the ugl adex doesnt come close tot eh real ones.

its realy good for a dry look, but not sure if its overall worth it, all sides considered.

That's why I don't purposely try to eradicate estrogen, just control it. If I keep things steady, no gyno issues or bloating. I had bad gyno and steroid sides when I first started. Took some caber, cycled a bit more, skin cleared up, no mood issues, no gyno (it's completely gone), and I never have a single side effect. Blood work comes back clean too. It's strange.

I think if you just keep things balanced you'll have no problems. Blood work always comes back in perfect ranges. I don't fuck around with things because if I keep it steady, all is well. Do a little blasting every now and again and then cruise at reasonable doses. Never have a problem! No need to overcomplicate shit, pull out compounds and switch shit up trying to master chemical cocktails. It just creates trouble.

[Big Chiro Flex]

Question: would the results be comparable if one took a very low dose of letro vs an average dose of Adex or Aromasin? See what I'm saying?

[illuminati]

When i read these Gear stacks of some people a few things come to mind,
1. Do they bother to train hard and intense. ( Tho every one has a different interpretation of hard & intense.)
2. To be taking the amounts mg wise It has to be very under-dosed.
3. with all the different  compounds how do they know which drug is having what effect.
Strikes me as a Shotgun Approach.
4. Looking for a drug to do all the work for them.

Barring a few body-builders, most are probably Bigger than 80's / 90's But overall quality & condition is not as Good,
And we would expect progress in each direction.
Seeing more of the eastern European & middle eastern Body-builders with that quality & condition.

[OTHstrong]

When i read these Gear stacks of some people a few things come to mind,
1. Do they bother to train hard and intense. ( Tho every one has a different interpretation of hard & intense.)
2. To be taking the amounts mg wise It has to be very under-dosed.
3. with all the different  compounds how do they know which drug is having what effect.
Strikes me as a Shotgun Approach.
4. Looking for a drug to do all the work for them.

Barring a few body-builders, most are probably Bigger than 80's / 90's But overall quality & condition is not as Good,
And we would expect progress in each direction.
Seeing more of the eastern European & middle eastern Body-builders with that quality & condition.

I can take any unlabeled bottle and do one injection and the next day (with fast esters) tell you what the compound is based on how I feel when I wake, of course we can tell what compound does what. anyone with experience at high levels can

[OTHstrong]

Question: would the results be comparable if one took a very low dose of letro vs an average dose of Adex or Aromasin? See what I'm saying?

the strongest weight wise (mg per mg) is adex., however letro is stronger in terms of its effects being better in the long wrong. Aromasin some people love it or hate it, I personally do not like it, it does very little to me in comparison, my choice is letro but now I combine letro with adex anyway.

sorry, not what you asked but just a view here on their strength, 1mg of adex is comparable to 2.5 mg of letro but letro being more effective in a 2 week run.

[illuminati]

I can take any unlabeled bottle and do one injection and the next day (with fast esters) tell you what the compound is based on how I feel when I wake, of course we can tell what compound does what. anyone with experience at high levels can



On an individual basis I.E one compound at a time possibly if its fast acting,.
The People i know and deal with at the High end of Bodybuilding / powerlifting would struggle with multiple compounds at once
introducing a new drug a knowing almost immediately how good a quality it is.

You seem to come across as you are the only person to have experience at competing & taking drugs as a competitor,
you are not, and i have as much right to post my personnel dealings and experience and views.

Clearly we have different experience's and views.
Does that make one Right or one wrong.
I think not.. But i respect your insight and views.

[OTHstrong]

I can take any unlabeled bottle and do one injection and the next day (with fast esters) tell you what the compound is based on how I feel when I wake, of course we can tell what compound does what. anyone with experience at high levels can



On an individual basis I.E one compound at a time possibly if its fast acting,.
The People i know and deal with at the High end of Bodybuilding / powerlifting would struggle with multiple compounds at once
introducing a new drug a knowing almost immediately how good a quality it is.

You seem to come across as you are the only person to have experience at competing & taking drugs as a competitor,
you are not, and i have as much right to post my personnel dealings and experience and views.

Clearly we have different experience's and views.
Does that make one Right or one wrong.
I think not.. But i respect your insight and views.

you should fix this post here, you must have deleted part of the quote brackets.

anyway, I am just responding to your post of people not knowing, I prep people for shows and they always feel the compounds and always tell me what they feel weekly and how the compounds make them feel, I am very organized with this and pay very close attention. So it is not a matter of opinion here, it is the experience guys who are responsible and pay attention will know exactly what compounds are doing what and the beginners or the advance guys that do things recklessly without caring do not. Not trying to pick a fight here bro, just the way it works.

[illuminati]

anyway, I am just responding to your post of people not knowing, I prep people for shows and they always feel the compounds and always tell me what they feel weekly and how the compounds make them feel, I am very organized with this and pay very close attention. So it is not a matter of opinion here, it is the experience guys who are responsible and pay attention will know exactly what compounds are doing what and the beginners or the advance guys that do things recklessly without caring do not. Not trying to pick a fight here bro, just the way it works.
[/quote]


I also prep people for competing. And speak & work with them on a daily basis when and where possible as without their input and feedback it can make it more difficult and long winded to achieve the desired Goal, if at all.
Sadly not all the experienced men are either responsible or pay attention, Hence the number of top level competitors Dying at very young ages and the others that have had and are having major health issue's.
so not sure that is how it should Work. As we are constantly seeing it leaves a lot to be desired.

I am very happy to listen to you or anyone else that has any intelligent and articulate information to share,as that can be a good source of new knowledge.
Although i will state my point of view if different or i don't agree.

[OTHstrong]

anyway, I am just responding to your post of people not knowing, I prep people for shows and they always feel the compounds and always tell me what they feel weekly and how the compounds make them feel, I am very organized with this and pay very close attention. So it is not a matter of opinion here, it is the experience guys who are responsible and pay attention will know exactly what compounds are doing what and the beginners or the advance guys that do things recklessly without caring do not. Not trying to pick a fight here bro, just the way it works.



I also prep people for competing. And speak & work with them on a daily basis when and where possible as without their input and feedback it can make it more difficult and long winded to achieve the desired Goal, if at all.
Sadly not all the experienced men are either responsible or pay attention, Hence the number of top level competitors Dying at very young ages and the others that have had and are having major health issue's.
so not sure that is how it should Work. As we are constantly seeing it leaves a lot to be desired.

I am very happy to listen at to you or anyone else that has any intelligent and articulate information to share,as that can be a good source of new knowledge.
Although i will state my point of view if different or i don't agree.

fair enough 

[ESFitness]

When i read these Gear stacks of some people a few things come to mind,
1. Do they bother to train hard and intense. ( Tho every one has a different interpretation of hard & intense.)
2. To be taking the amounts mg wise It has to be very under-dosed.
3. with all the different  compounds how do they know which drug is having what effect.
Strikes me as a Shotgun Approach.
4. Looking for a drug to do all the work for them.

Barring a few body-builders, most are probably Bigger than 80's / 90's But overall quality & condition is not as Good,
And we would expect progress in each direction.
Seeing more of the eastern European & middle eastern Body-builders with that quality & condition.

1- so most guys who take high doses must not train hard or intense?
2- looooong before UGL's, guy's would take huge amounts of drugs and still not be the "monsters" most inexperienced people would expect to be taking 5-10g/wk.
3- even if the guy is new and doesn't know what the drug is doing, does that mean the drug ISN'T doing what it does for 90% of the guys who use it?
4- yea, all steroid users are 'lazy'... heard that one before.

overall quality and condition? When? onstage or in the gym? because years ago, most bbers looked like fucking ompa-loompas in the offseason. now guys are leaner than they've ever been, at higher bodyweights in the offseason... and back in the 80's and 90's diuretic use was 'allowed/abused' much moreso compared to today.

[galeniko]

Question: would the results be comparable if one took a very low dose of letro vs an average dose of Adex or Aromasin? See what I'm saying?

from what science says aromasin is the strogest.

hard to compare.

letro and adex are comparable though.

[illuminati]

1- so most guys who take high doses must not train hard or intense?
2- looooong before UGL's, guy's would take huge amounts of drugs and still not be the "monsters" most inexperienced people would expect to be taking 5-10g/wk.
3- even if the guy is new and doesn't know what the drug is doing, does that mean the drug ISN'T doing what it does for 90% of the guys who use it?
4- yea, all steroid users are 'lazy'... heard that one before.

overall quality and condition? When? onstage or in the gym? because years ago, most bbers looked like fucking ompa-loompas in the offseason. now guys are leaner than they've ever been, at higher bodyweights in the offseason... and back in the 80's and 90's diuretic use was 'allowed/abused' much moreso compared to today.

Hello, are you trying to be clever or pick a verbal fight with your childish writing & answers.
Are you able to read and properly understand.

1. i didnt say they didnt train hard and or intense, I asked the question if they do.
2. Yes there probably was a lot of drug taking & not that many monsters, as in all sports now there are more people involved and and with more people Better genetics.
3. Yet again i didnt state that the drugs were not doing what they were meant to do, only that with so many compounds at once it becomes harder to determine what the effects are. harder but not impossible.
4.No all steroid user's are not lazy, in many cases quite the opposite in fact, we train very hard,watch our diets,do our cardio, work on having a Positve mental attitude,ect,ect.

I see just as many fat water baby's now as i did see back then.
Although the trend in off season competitive bodybuilders does seem to be that they are keeping leaner.
As for excess diuretic use who knows and with all the information around now on it's negative impact on the
body why would they be daft enough to abuse it.

Pls try to read and comprehend, and the aggressive/ nonchalant tone of your reply is not necessary,
i'm sure your able to respond in a more articulate manner to get your views across.  
Thank you.

[galeniko]

good point the old schoolers who are lifted to heaven, they looked like shit off season, they mad sure theres no pics of that,or very few.

but it is true that often ppl theses days overdo the drugs just in case, to be safe or whatever.

but then theres many jacked guys who are on much less than one would think.


and well often ppl are on varrying stacks during the year.

the most severe mis-use i find is seen in twinks who want it too fast.

[ESFitness]

Hello, are you trying to be clever or pick a verbal fight with your childish writing & answers.
Are you able to read and properly understand.

1. i didnt say they didnt train hard and or intense, I asked the question if they do.
2. Yes there probably was a lot of drug taking & not that many monsters, as in all sports now there are more people involved and and with more people Better genetics.
3. Yet again i didnt state that the drugs were not doing what they were meant to do, only that with so many compounds at once it becomes harder to determine what the effects are. harder but not impossible.
4.No all steroid user's are not lazy, in many cases quite the opposite in fact, we train very hard,watch our diets,do our cardio, work on having a Positve mental attitude,ect,ect.

I see just as many fat water baby's now as i did see back then.
Although the trend in off season competitive bodybuilders does seem to be that they are keeping leaner.
As for excess diuretic use who knows and with all the information around now on it's negative impact on the
body why would they be daft enough to abuse it.

Pls try to read and comprehend, and the aggressive/ nonchalant tone of your reply is not necessary,
i'm sure your able to respond in a more articulate manner to get your views across.  
Thank you.

I'm sure I can too..

but I dont' care to.. given your tone. we've all see it before.. the pompous, arrogant "steroid users don't train hard and rely on drugs".. it's even worse when it comes from another steroid user who thinks he's above other steroid users because he 'uses less' or whatever.

I didn't even bother reading 90% of your post, since I've read it from people like you before for 15+ years.

[illuminati]

I'm sure I can too..

but I dont' care to.. given your tone. we've all see it before.. the pompous, arrogant "steroid users don't train hard and rely on drugs".. it's even worse when it comes from another steroid user who thinks he's above other steroid users because he 'uses less' or whatever.

I didn't even bother reading 90% of your post, since I've read it from people like you before for 15+ years.

I think you should take the time to read my post, and by the sound of it some other peoples too.
You may actually be able to come back with positive answers.. NOT your wild made up claims or
interpretation of what has been written.

I think it's you who has the Pompous I know Better than everyone Attitude.

I also never said how much gear & for how long i have been using gear. yet again wrong assumption.

Given your response It's That Behaviour we have all seen before and are tired of From People Like you
over the last 25+ yrs.

Previous to this, i have read some of your msgs and Believed you had some good points to Bring to
the Boards in general.

I don't know you and what you have experienced or achieved & like wise you know Nothing of what i have
experienced or achieved.  Respect.

[macos]

from what science says aromasin is the strogest.

hard to compare.

letro and adex are comparable though.

aromas in got no rebound. Right?