Death Blow to the US Dollar

[Shockwave]

No, it doesn't.

And he's signed NDAA a couple of times now, tool.  It's a recurring spending act. 

Yeah, but this NDAA had the "indefinate detainment" part, which the others lacked. (Not talking about Jag, just about how this one is different than all the others.

[Skip8282]

Yeah, but this NDAA had the "indefinate detainment" part, which the others lacked. (Not talking about Jag, just about how this one is different than all the others.

Uh...no.  AUMF is the indefinite detention and they tried to get an upholder in NDAA.  The final passed bill has a specific section that indefinite detention doesn't apply to U.S. citizens.

[Shockwave]

Uh...no.  AUMF is the indefinite detention and they tried to get an upholder in NDAA.  The final passed bill has a specific section that indefinite detention doesn't apply to U.S. citizens.

I remember they put that in, but I thought there was a loophole that if they define you as a terrorist even if youre a US citizen they can grab you?

[avxo]

Have a lot of 25 year rated freeze dried food.  Water, guns, ammo, Etc.

Egads... do you really worry that much about a total breakdown of the social order and a return to the primitive? Allow me to answer you by quoting someone that you, presumably, respect: you!

Fucking delusional.

And besides, you still haven't answered... If you really believe what you claim to believe, then how will the 3 ounces of gold and 4 ounces of silver you own help you when the Government (either by law or by Executive Order) makes it illegal to possess gold and silver and demands that you surrender it, as they did in the past? Hmm?

And even if that doesn't happen how, exactly, are your precious metals protected from a effort by the Government to manipulate the spot price of gold by simply offering for sale a percentage of its gold reserves, thus flooding the market and far exceeding demand, inevitably causing the price (of both gold and silver) to plummet?

[Soul Crusher]

 . People have been collecting gold and silver for thousands of years why?    Of course the keynsian utopians know best and are smarter than thousands of years of combined experiences.

[howardroark]

I doubt that at $1700/ounce this sort of insurance makes sense; to each their own though. But even if I were to grant you everything on that list, it's unclear how owning gold would help you in the situations that you cite. Sure gold has traditionally been a "stable" asset against inflation and there's practically no evidence that inflation is a danger right now.

If you were to "grant" me everything on the list - something you must do if you are to face reality simply because everything on that list is unavoidable FACT and 100% true - then that's all the evidence you need for inflation being a danger right now.

Just looking at the fiscal and monetary pictures - a large run-up of national debt, no real plan to balance the budget for the coming decades, low interest rates which thus far have kept deficits from exploding, and an explosion in the money supply - high inflation is almost unavoidable.

And besides, you'd still have another small problem: what protects you from an effective "confiscation" of the gold, not unlike the one that happened under Executive Order 6102?

Nothing does. But at that point, why invest in anything? As we've seen during the financial crisis, the federal government has no problem stealing people's investments for politically favored ends (see: GM/Chrysler bailout & bankruptcy).

A $1.00 in 1973 had the same purchasing power as $22.57 in 2012; let's say $23. So, an ounce of gold in 1913 cost 23 * 20 = 460 2012 dollars per ounce.

You're using numbers from 1973 to compare an ounce of gold from 1913 to an ounce in 2012? Doesn't work that way buddy. Besides, historical prices are not an indicator of what the price of a particular good should be in the present.

Besides, if the U.S. Government wanted to, it could make the value of gold plummet overnight. The average gold trading volume per day was 18 million ounces in late 2008 and the U.S. has approximately 287 million ounces of gold. Selling even a tenth of it's gold would massively move the market downwards.

If the federal government gets to the point where it needs to start selling off its gold, then prices will be much, much higher than they are now and inflation will be much, much greater than it is now.

Besides, the amount of gold that the federal government does have is very much in doubt. The Fed, for example, owns no gold of its own but only "gold certificates" (skip to 1:45):

[howardroark]

If that shit happens gold is going to be the least of your worries, at least for some time anyway.

Actually, I recently joined a network of preppers who have a plan to use gold and silver as alternative currencies in the event of some kind of economic crisis. They also have plenty of rice, beans, canned foods, guns, and ammo stocked away of course. There's no reason not to take an "all of the above" approach just in case.

[Soul Crusher]

 .  Cut off food stamps and welfare and this nation will have riots nationwide like you can't believe.

[tonymctones]

Actually, I recently joined a network of preppers who have a plan to use gold and silver as alternative currencies in the event of some kind of economic crisis. They also have plenty of rice, beans, canned foods, guns, and ammo stocked away of course. There's no reason not to take an "all of the above" approach just in case.

something is only a currency if its accepted b/c of the expectation that it has value.

Guns and ammo will be much more valuable in a situation like that then gold and silver even if for trading purposes.

But I agree no reason to not stock up on everything a little

[avxo]

If you were to "grant" me everything on the list - something you must do if you are to face reality simply because everything on that list is unavoidable FACT and 100% true - then that's all the evidence you need for inflation being a danger right now.

Is inflation a danger in general? Of course - and especially in the long run - as it is with every economy in the world. But right now, given the economic environment in which we're in, inflation is a small danger. If it were not for the Fed's inability to lower interest rates any more, nobody would really be concerned about it.

Just looking at the fiscal and monetary pictures - a large run-up of national debt, no real plan to balance the budget for the coming decades, low interest rates which thus far have kept deficits from exploding, and an explosion in the money supply - high inflation is almost unavoidable.

You are buying gold at $1,700/ounce today to protect against high inflation in the coming decades? I'm pretty sure that if you wait out a couple of years, you'll be able to get gold at better (i.e. lower) prices, but hey... if Glenn Beck and G. Gordon Liddy told you that they buy gold and you need to as well, who am I to argue?

You're using numbers from 1973 to compare an ounce of gold from 1913 to an ounce in 2012? Doesn't work that way buddy. Besides, historical prices are not an indicator of what the price of a particular good should be in the present.

It was a typo - all numbers were from 1913.

If the federal government gets to the point where it needs to start selling off its gold, then prices will be much, much higher than they are now and inflation will be much, much greater than it is now.

I didn't say "needs." If the Federal Government wanted to manipulate the gold market and cause prices to plummet, they could do so trivially.

Besides, the amount of gold that the federal government does have is very much in doubt. The Fed, for example, owns no gold of its own but only "gold certificates" (skip to 1:45): (snip youtube link)

Right, the Federal Reserve doesn't own gold. And the news is? Nobody ever said the Federal Reserve owns gold. The U.S. Government does, however, own gold -- over 8 thousand tonnes of it, as a matter of fact.


Gold is great and if someone has a lot of money saved, investing some in gold makes good financial sense as a counterbalance. But the notion that gold is the end-all, be-all financial product, and that in the post-apocalyptic world of Mad Max you imagine is right around the corner would ensure your survival is, to put it bluntly, nonsense. In such an environment items like food, water, medicines, gas, seeds, livestock, guns and ammunition, tools and equipment would be a whole lot more valuable than gold anyways.

[24KT]

No I didn't inform them.  You're using this reply to do so.  It's the same game you got away with before... Talk about gas prices all the time knowing your sigline goes to selling gaspills.  Relax, I'm not deleting your scam even though I should.

Yes, I used to talk constantly about gas prices, and what was going to take place, and YES, my sig line offered a solution for those willing to explore a solution to the problem. That was back in 2006, ...and you have the audacity to tell me 5 yrs later that I was full of it? How much more proof do you needof both my sincerity as well as accuracy? Do you need to be sodomized by a gas pump?

You call it a scam, ...I call it living a life of integrity. I do what I do because I believe in it,
Unlike those who are forced to go to work every day because they HAVE to, even though they HATE their jobs,
I have the luxury of CHOOSING how I spend my time, and generate income, as well as acquire GOLD.

And yes, I talk about GOLD, and  yes my sig line does lead to more info, ,,,lucky for the readers of this forum, I'm willing to ignore the trolls and the tin-pot dictators, and share with them a solution to the very problems that beset them.

There are those who can choose to listen to the trolls, detractors, liars, character assassins both in the MSM and on these boards, ...and there are those who are smart enough to see a no-brainer and protect themselves and their families with the best solution going for the middle class, ...especially at a time when the middle class is being targeted & systematically wiped out.

[24KT]

I doubt that at $1700/ounce this sort of insurance makes sense; to each their own though. But even if I were to grant you everything on that list, it's unclear how owning gold would help you in the situations that you cite. Sure gold has traditionally been a "stable" asset against inflation and there's practically no evidence that inflation is a danger right now. And besides, you'd still have another small problem: what protects you from an effective "confiscation" of the gold, not unlike the one that happened under Executive Order 6102?


A $1.00 in 1973 had the same purchasing power as $22.57 in 2012; let's say $23. So, an ounce of gold in 1913 cost 23 * 20 = 460 2012 dollars per ounce.

Besides, if the U.S. Government wanted to, it could make the value of gold plummet overnight. The average gold trading volume per day was 18 million ounces in late 2008 and the U.S. has approximately 287 million ounces of gold. Selling even a tenth of it's gold would massively move the market downwards.

I'm not concerned about paper ETF's. My concern is physical. When ETF's crash, and people's money is stolen right out from underneath them like Gerald Celente's by MF Global, the physical market will be free to reach it's true price.

They've been suppressing the price of gold for years. Their manipulations used to last for months, ...now they barely last for days sometimes not even hours. The interesting part in all of this though is that whenever they smash the price of gold down, ...who do you think buys it up... CENTRAL BANKS! For the first time in years, central banks are actually net buyers of gold. they know what time it is. As far as I'm concerned, if the US treasury is shorting US Federal Reserve notes, I might as well be too. So far, I have not been dissappointed.

As far as I'm concerned, they can move the market downward. To me, it's simply a buying opportunity I will take full advantage of.

There is free vaulting in non-seizure locations for those concerned with government confiscation and/or insurance issues.

[24KT]

Yeah, but this NDAA had the "indefinate detainment" part, which the others lacked. (Not talking about Jag, just about how this one is different than all the others.

EXACTLY Shockwave! Clinton, & Bush, both signed similar bills into law, ...but Obama's goes ALOT further.  A WHOLE LOT FURTHER!

Uh...no.  AUMF is the indefinite detention and they tried to get an upholder in NDAA.  The final passed bill has a specific section that indefinite detention doesn't apply to U.S. citizens.

An injustice anywhere, is injustice everywhere. the very traps, snares, and pitfalls that Americans have cheered the construction of, is now being used on Americans themselves. People cheered the idea that a law was being put into place whereby non-US citizens could be arrested, detained indefinately, held for years without trial, essentially disappeared. Well if they thought it was just then, what's wrong with the concept now?

I remember they put that in, but I thought there was a loophole that if they define you as a terrorist even if youre a US citizen they can grab you?

They can do more than grab you Shockwave, ...they can essentially MURDER you, based on suspicion alone.

[24KT]

The BRIC nations, (Brazil, Russia, India & China) along with Japan & Saudi Arabia have delivered a death blow to the US Dollar.



BRIC Summit wraps up with a consensus on bilateral trade agreements.

Bottom line:  NO US Dollars!!!

http://further-left-forum.blogspot.ca/2012/03/no-dollar-trade.html

Get ready for hyperinflation, ...coming to an American town near you... SOON!

I'm just glad my money is banked in GOLD! As the US Dollar devalues to zero, my purchasing power is retained.

Is this on any other news source? Not a flame, but this is serious bidness, and If I can see this corroborated on a legitimate news source, Im gonna be worried.
But honestly, that site leaves me with doubts.

Bank of Korea has cut it's dollar reserves

South Korea, Asia's fourth-largest economy, pared the share of dollars in its foreign-exchange reserves to the lowest level since the global financial crisis erupted in 2007.

Dollar holdings dropped to 60.5 percent of foreign- exchange reserves at the end of last year from 63.7 percent in 2010, the central bank said in its annual report for 2011 released today.

The drop underscores a shift among reserve managers to diversify assets, with China’s yuan and Australia’s dollar among the beneficiaries. South Korea’s government earlier this year announced plans to invest in Chinese equities as well as bonds as the yuan’s international role increases.

“The move to diversify reserves away from U.S. dollars and the euro accelerated last year, largely on weaker fiscal fundamentals and subdued economic conditions in developed markets,” Wai Ho Leong, a senior regional economist at Barclays Capital in Singapore, said in an e-mail. “At the same time, it marked a move into gold, and bonds of stable emerging-market economies, particularly those with better longer-term prospects and currency appreciation potential.”

The central bank boosted the proportion of equity investments to 5.4 percent last year from 3.8 percent, it said. Holdings of foreign government bonds rose to 36.8 percent from 35.8 percent in 2010, the BOK said.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-03-30/bok-s-dollar-holdings-fell-to-60-5-of-fx-assets-in-2011.html



And We're starting to see more commentaries on the recent summit.


The SWIFT Settlement System
 
In our previous article we looked at whether the U.S. Dollar was headed for a major fall or not. We demonstrated how the dominance of the U.S. dollar was almost entirely dependent on the grip it had over oil producers and this allowed the oil price to be designmnated in the U.S. dollar. The U.S. has gone to war in Kuwait and Iraq over this issue under the guise of destroying “weapons of Mass Destruction” as it appears on the verge of doing in Iran. It is no coincidence that Iran has long since ceased using the dollar to price its oil. It has also eliminated the U.S. dollar from its reserves. But of greater importance to the emerging world has been the use of the Belgian-based SWIFT system of international settlements. Not only has the move stopped the sale of Iranian oil, but it has also interfered with an important source of oil to the emerging world.
 
Right now there are ongoing discussions between the BRICS (Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa) countries over ther use of the SWIFT system of international settlements as a ‘weapon’ against Iran. The full extent of the impact of this appears to have been ignored. With China and India as two of Iran’s clients, they found that the U.S. could hurt them considerably with this action. If they can hurt them in this way, then they can hurt them the same way on other issues. So the question that the BRIC nations are now asking is, “Must we be subject to the financial will of the U.S.?”
 
The question has long-term implications that could affect these nation’s freedom of financial activity. The question demands to see just how powerful the U.S. really is. It is very clear to these emerging nations that if they are to keep on growing, unfettered by the U.S. will, they must set up a system that is not vulnerable to U.S. influence and to reduce the influence of the dollar itself.
 
What is being realized slowly is that the actions that come out of this conference may well mark a watershed in the shift of power from West to East and the significant reduction in the power of the U.S. as the globe’s main financial influence. Consequently, these nation’s will have to lower the influence of the U.S. dollar on their affairs if they are to achieve real financial independence. This has to be a future and extremely negative influence on the international value of the U.S. dollar. 
http://www.24hgold.com/english/news-gold-silver-the-decline-and-fall-of-the-usd.aspx?article=3860352942G10020




Brave New Bank? BRICS moot dropping dollar, IMF

Bye-bye Dollar: BRICS doesn't trust the buck

Peter Schiff on BRICS and the demise of the dollar

And here we see the US Governments go to answer for everything... brainwash the public into starting another war, because now countries have the audacity to protect themselves from the arbitrary whims of what is essentially an insolvent a broke ass thug!

US Lists BRICS As New Threat - Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa - Build Up 2 WW3

[Skip8282]

Yep, Guideline #3:


3.  Liberally use Wall-O-Text

Okay, so you made some shit up, got called out on it, but don't want to disappear.  The next best tactic is to create a Wall-O-Text.  Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, is going to read your 105 paragraph post, cut and pasted from some obscure website.

For added benefit, always highlight, italicize, underline, and bold various random portions of the paragraphs to make it appear as though you actually took the time to read all that dribble.

[OzmO]

America is evil, buy gold, put HGH in your gas tank. 

[Soul Crusher]

America is evil, buy gold, put HGH in your gas tank. 

America's monetary system is being run and controlled by evil people - yes. 

[24KT]

The question should be "Why would people buy gold at almost $1700/ounce?!?!?"

Actually avxo, the real question to ask is NOT what does it cost? ...but rather 'WHAT IS IT WORTH?'

If we are all in agreement that people should be acquiring & accumulating GOLD... let's move on.
What's stopping people from acquiring gold? Are you waiting for the price to drop before acquiring it?

Some of the most brilliant minds have determined we've pretty much seen a bottom as far as gold prices go. And I'm not refering to the clowns we see in MSM, the same ones like Kramer with his stupid bells, or the ones who were pushing financials like Bears, ...I'm talking those who actually know what's going on. the Marc Fabers, the Eric Sprotts. Peter Schiffs, James Turks, John Embrys, and Alasdair MacLeods etc., ...me. 

We all seem to believe that we've seen a bottom in gold prices. I'm afraid that those waiting for the price to drop may be out of luck, ...unless they are acquiring their gold through karatbars. Karatbars customers can actually get their gold for FREE. Wouldn't you agree that FREE is a better price than $1700. Can you get gold anywhere else at a better price than FREE?

[Agnostic007]

Because in the long run GOLD retains it's value & purchasing power.

The price of GOLD has long been suppressed & manipulated downwards in order to conceal the rapid demise of fiat federal reserve note. the manipulators are losing control, and soon GOLD will revaluate to reflect it's true value. Gold may seem expensive at $1700, however, understand that is $1700 of devalued dollars... worth about the same amount as $20 circa 1913. Gold at $1700 oz is a much better acquisition than GOLD at $2,000/oz, or even $3,000/oz.

We have the ability to essentially take zero value dollars and exchange it for GOLD.

The smart money is doing just that, before people & businesses stop accepting dollars for GOLD... or anything else.
Governments and people arond the world are already phasing out the US Dollar, it won't be long before people in the USA start doing the same.

Bet you $50 cash Gold on Dec 31, 2012 will be cheaper than it is today..

[24KT]

Bet you $50 cash Gold on Dec 31, 2012 will be cheaper than it is today..

I only bet at Caesar's Palace, and only at BlackJack.

[avxo]

Actually avxo, the real question to ask is NOT what does it cost? ...but rather 'WHAT IS IT WORTH?'

That was the underlying crux of the question which I asked "why would people buy gold at $1700/ounce?" It's not, realistically, worth $1700/ounce, the spot price notwithstanding.

If we are all in agreement that people should be acquiring & accumulating GOLD... let's move on. What's stopping people from acquiring gold? Are you waiting for the price to drop before acquiring it?

Except we're not all in agreement. As a growth investment vehicle is not sensible and most people want growth (perhaps because most people aren't into conspiracy theories and don't see collapse around each and every corner, but that's a discussion for another time). Investing in the stock market at large over 10 or 20 years is a much better bet if the end goal is growth and this is a well-known, substantiated fact.

Some of the most brilliant minds have determined we've pretty much seen a bottom as far as gold prices go. And I'm not refering to the clowns we see in MSM, the same ones like Kramer with his stupid bells, or the ones who were pushing financials like Bears, ...I'm talking those who actually know what's going on. the Marc Fabers, the Eric Sprotts. Peter Schiffs, James Turks, John Embrys, and Alasdair MacLeods etc., ...me. 

Of course the "most brilliant minds" are those who agree with your particular viewpoint, and those who don't are "clowns." Some would say that people who make such statements are clowns themselves.

And even if you honestly believe that $1700/ounce (or even $1500/ounce) is a solid support for the spot price of gold and that they're only upside... well, you can believe that the moon is made of cheese and that the tooth fairy leaves a dollar under your pillow, but that doesn't mean that your beliefs are true. What matters is cold, hard facts. And the facts don't point out to a price of $1700 being reasonable.

We all seem to believe that we've seen a bottom in gold prices. I'm afraid that those waiting for the price to drop may be out of luck, ...unless they are acquiring their gold through karatbars. Karatbars customers can actually get their gold for FREE. Wouldn't you agree that FREE is a better price than $1700. Can you get gold anywhere else at a better price than FREE?

Nobody can get anything for free, and anyone who believes otherwise is a fool. And a foold will sooner or later, lose everything and if he's lucky understand exactly how big a fool he actually was.

[Internet Tough Guy]

Samson is too smart for this board.   

[OzmO]

Buy Gold, hate America, put dexa-trim in your gas tank.

[kcballer]

Buy Gold, hate America, put dexa-trim in your gas tank.

Too late to buy gold unless it's from samsonjag.

It's all those Indian and Chinese peasants with gold chains.  That's where all the power is 

She is such a fool. No one should listen to her nonsense. An ETF holds more gold and the Indian and Chinese governments combined.

Oh but it's the peasants without running water that will overthrow the US currency  They haven't even figured out how to not sh*t into a river or realized it's not good for your health to then drink it. 

[OzmO]

So should i send these "shake weights" back too?