Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Training Q&A => Topic started by: dj181 on January 24, 2013, 01:16:04 AM
-
and i mean full-range of motion starting from a dead hang all the way up til the chin surpasses the bar
AJ once said "once you can do 10 full-range 1-arm chins then your arms will be as big as they are ever gonna be"
-
1 jerky one with my left arm....
Just kidding
Tried the negatives that jpm proposed but found them impractical at 235
-
I jerky one with my left arm....
Just kidding
Tried the negatives that jpm proposed but found them impractical at 235
they serve no purpose other than training your ego...and a possible shoulder or bicep injury.
-
they serve no purpose other than training your ego...and a possible shoulder or bicep injury.
would you say that to Arthur Jones face? doubt it ;) 8)
-
would you say that to Arthur Jones face? doubt it ;) 8)
well what is the purpose of them? tell me. listen i like old school too but FFS lets keep it real. A certain "expert" here always rants on about AJ like heīs Brainwashed. what is the purpose of them? explain to me what you will get from them that you canīt do with other SAFER methods. Look at the anatomy of the shoulder and biceps, tell me then if this is a safe productive exercise. not saying i am better than anyone here but i worked with people who were very qualified and went to University and studied MODERN methods and physiotherapy...if i showed this to a senior in the place i worked they would have thrown me out!! believe me i listened and learned from these people and it was a very humbling experience for me...the boss was a woman who also competed when she was young. If AJ said stand on your head would you do it?? AJ was a shrewd business man and sold "HIS" machines very well. Learn yes from people like him use whatīs good and discard the dangerous methods...use YOUR own brain...this is 2013 and not 1966 ::)
-
Someone fix this link (I'm on my phone)
Some dudes can do them easily. I like this guys grip (parallel rather than underhand or overhand)
-
well what is the purpose of them? tell me. listen i like old school too but FFS lets keep it real. A certain "expert" here always rants on about AJ like heīs Brainwashed. what is the purpose of them? explain to me what you will get from them that you canīt do with other SAFER methods. Look at the anatomy of the shoulder and biceps, tell me then if this is a safe productive exercise. not saying i am better than anyone here but i worked with people who were very qualified and went to University and studied MODERN methods and physiotherapy...if i showed this to a senior in the place i worked they would have thrown me out!! believe me i listened and learned from these people and it was a very humbling experience for me...the boss was a woman who also competed when she was young. If AJ said stand on your head would you do it?? AJ was a shrewd business man and sold "HIS" machines very well. Learn yes from people like him use whatīs good and discard the dangerous methods...use YOUR own brain...this is 2013 and not 1966 ::)
calm down brother, i'm just trolling lol
in fact, 90% of the posts i make on this site are troll posts
but here is one statement that isn't trolling... one CAN NOT get bigger muscles without increasing their training loads
as far as 1-arm chins go, i don't know and i don't have an opinion on them coz i've never done them, i was just curious that's all
-
calm down brother, i'm just trolling lol
in fact, 90% of the posts i make on this site are troll posts
but here is one statement that isn't trolling... one CAN NOT get bigger muscles without increasing their training loads
as far as 1-arm chins go, i don't know and i don't have an opinion on them coz i've never done them, i was just curious that's all
i am calm.. ;D
-
i am calm.. ;D
that's cool, and here's a nice cooling tune to make you even calmer 8)
-
thanks Bro... ;D your a good egg
-
Check YouTube. Tons of guys are using both negative chins and negative 1 arm chins. Several also do 1 arm chins pretty easily.
I'm hoping to get there one day.
-
Someone fix this link (I'm on my phone)
Some dudes can do them easily. I like this guys grip (parallel rather than underhand or overhand)
that's pretty damn good, but he isn't doing it from a dead hang position
doing it from a dead hang position is MUCH MUCH HARDER
-
that's pretty damn good, but he isn't doing it from a dead hang position
doing it from a dead hang position is MUCH MUCH HARDER
Agreed. But the dude is strong. Looks natural. JPM's suggestion may have value for some lifters... I have started adding negative chins to my last set (underhand to sternum). No dramatic strength increase yet but it's only been 4 weeks or so.
-
Agreed. But the dude is strong. Looks natural. JPM's suggestion may have value for some lifters... I have started adding negative chins to my last set (underhand to sternum). No dramatic strength increase yet but it's only been 4 weeks or so.
how much weight do you add to the negative chins?
i'm doing reps with 35 pounds added
-
It is possible for most people to do a one arm chin (at least one) if training for it. Problem is that this movement can be a ego buster. And because you will usually fail at first. Just like any other lift, it should be approached with serious intent , with a planned workout scheme. If your greatly overweight, and not that well trained,than the one arm version may not be for you. The average well muscled and strong BB'er should have no problem learning his movement. You can't get good at anything unless you try it. You might even surprise yourself.
Try doing normal chins, at first, in a chinning workout. Than switch to the negative portion (should be warmup'ed enough)this is where the confidence can increase along with the muscle impulse action/reactions. The Rest/Pause system works well here, giving 12 to 15 seconds between negative attempts. Or alternate each arm, with that 12-15 pause between. Or find a way that suits you the best. Should become stronger each workout.
I have maxed at 3 reps one arm chins, at around 235-240 bwt. In college, at 275-280 (football bwt), I did the normal two hand chin with an extra 120 strapped on, counting the chain and harness (if I remember correctly). My chinning efforts, either one or two hand, are like the guy in the video. Giving a slight break, at the elbow, so never from a dead hang start. Any of these chins are not "all that", just something I, and others, have done. At present, my two hand chin has improved very well, at a lower bwt, since college.
Art Jones mfc makes quite a bit of medical and rehab equipment, more than just BB'ing stuff. Ever go to a rehab/VA center, there are devices that most have never heard. From Art Jones, among others.
Not sure why some get their kilts in a knot and over react to the positive/negative one arm chin. It's just another lift, that most strongmen like doing. Good Luck.
-
Common Injuries :
BicepTendon tear near the elbow
Bicep Tendon tear near the shoulder
Rotar cuff tears
shoulder joint tear (Glenoid Labrum tear)
shoulder dislocation
elbow dislocation
tendonitis rotar cuff
tendonitis Biceps
Indeed Norman cantwell a former nationally ranked powerlifting champion warned of the Dangers.
might suggest "Diagnostic Bodybuilding" from Michael H Brown.
-
;)
-
how much weight do you add to the negative chins?
i'm doing reps with 35 pounds added
depends... sometimes nothing and i do 10 negative chin... i've also gone up to 2 x 45s for 2 reps
-
depends... sometimes nothing and i do 10 negative chin... i've also gone up to 2 x 45s for 2 reps
how slow do you do the negative reps?
-
how slow do you do the negative reps?
about 3s per rep, start with sternum to the bar while standing on a bench
-
Want to mention isometric holds as another part of the training plan to improve any version of chins. Anywhere for 10 to 20 seconds, usually from the top, middle and near bottom positions. Usually one set each.
Some will hold the wrist with the free hand when working on one arm chins, gaining a bit of confidence this way. After awhile the free arm should be held behind the small of the back or (usually) holding some extra weight for the chin.
Rope climbing (legs held 90 degrees out) is another exceptional exercise that most BB'ers never do. Somewhat akin to the one arm pull, hits the grip as well as all the other muscle groups in assisting in the chin (1 or 2 arm). Abs strongly too. One arm overhead cable pulls can also be thrown into the mix, from time to time.
Common injuries may be encountered in any exercise. Let caution, a good warmup and common sense be your guide. BB'ers lift abnormal amounts of weight, compared to the common man, That's what sets them apart and above most other average folks...the will to succeed, improve and better ones self. If having a unfounded fear of a exercise, than don't do it. Or just assume the fetal position and stay away from all forms of physical activity...your choice. Good Luck
-
i asked a couple of guys what they thought of one-arm chins. >:( >:( >:( >:(
-
since i started doing regular chins, not 1-armed ones, i've noticed that they really have developed my bis and delts
the bi development isn't really a suprise, but the delt development is
and i know this development is from the chins, since the only exercises that i am doing now are dips, chins, and full squats
but maybe this delt development has come from the dips and not the chins?
i'd like to get full range reps with 100 pounds added to me, coz then it would be damn sure that i'd have very well-developed arms 8)
-
Still working on regular chins now, but eventually would love to be able to do 1 armed versions. I agree with what Jones said, in fact my best biceps growth came from regular chin ups not curls. So I assume that once having the strength to do 1 armed, they'll be pretty big.
Thing is, most people treat this exercise (and others too) as an ego lift, just trying to see how many reps or how much weight they can lift without really caring about muscle stress, when the most important thing is to put the most tension on the muscles as possible while doing it.
Also, don't listen to Donny here, he is just biased against 1 armed chins for some strange reason. ??? Maybe it has something to do with his little argument with jpm in another thread or cause he is old and injury prone.
Fact is, you can injure yourself with ANY exercise. That is why its common sense to always use good form, leave the ego at home and only do the 1 arm chins when you're strong enough for them. You wouldn't go into the gym and squat say 315 when your strength can only allow you to get 225 up for say 8 reps, would you? Common sense.
-
Still working on regular chins now, but eventually would love to be able to do 1 armed versions. I agree with what Jones said, in fact my best biceps growth came from regular chin ups not curls. So I assume that once having the strength to do 1 armed, they'll be pretty big.
Thing is, most people treat this exercise (and others too) as an ego lift, just trying to see how many reps or how much weight they can lift without really caring about muscle stress, when the most important thing is to put the most tension on the muscles as possible while doing it.
Also, don't listen to Donny here, he is just biased against 1 armed chins for some strange reason. ??? Maybe it has something to do with his little argument with jpm in another thread or cause he is old and injury prone.
Fact is, you can injure yourself with ANY exercise. That is why its common sense to always use good form, leave the ego at home and only do the 1 arm chins when you're strong enough for them. You wouldn't go into the gym and squat say 315 when your strength can only allow you to get 225 up for say 8 reps, would you? Common sense.
why listen to you? ??? I am pointing out the risks of an exercise that really has no real value. Ask any bodybuilder who has had a serious Bicep or shoulder tear if it effected their training..Dorian Yates for example. Seems a high risk for no real value.
-
why listen to you? ??? I am pointing out the risks of an exercise that really has no real value. Ask any bodybuilder who has had a serious Bicep or shoulder tear if it effected their training..Dorian Yates for example. Seems a high risk for no real value.
The OP can choose to listen to whoever he wants.
ANY and every exercise has risks if done improperly.
1 arm chins definitively have value in training.
Would you advice against squats just cause they have back, knee and hip injury risks and say they have no value just because you can replace them with other movements? (lunges, split squats, leg press, etc.)
What about the bench press? It has serious shoulder injury risks if done improperly and can easily be replaced by other movements. Still you cannot say they have no value or are too "risky" for others.
No disrespect, but you're just biased.
-
i donīt see it as disrespect but i am not biased...ask Mr yates if it caused him trouble...
-
Thing is, most people treat this exercise (and others too) as an ego lift, just trying to see how many reps or how much weight they can lift without really caring about muscle stress, when the most important thing is to put the most tension on the muscles as possible while doing it.
agree fully with this statement, but one needs progressive tension overload to get bigger muscles and that's just fact
i've never increased the size of my muscles without adding weight to the bar never
if someone can actually get bigger muscles without progressive tension overload then i'd like to see it
and as far as form is concerned, yes it is very important, and my form on chins is spot on as i start each rep from a dead hang and i pull myself all the way up till my chin is well over the bar and i pause in that top position for a second or two
-
@ dj181, I agree that progressive overload is important, but never at the expense of form. Adding weight or reps is also in my opinion the only way to get bigger. Some people claim volume or "muscle confusion" principles work too, but they never did for me.
@ donny, you know Yates tore his bicep while doing rows right? What does that have to do with 1 arm chins?
Furthermore, he tore it not cause of the rows themselves, but because he was doing them improperly and going beyond failure few weeks out from a contest (something he said should have never done).
NO relation to the exercise being discussed in this thread.
You also haven't answered the questions about the bench press or squats.
-
@ dj181, I agree that progressive overload is important, but never at the expense of form. Adding weight or reps is also in my opinion the only way to get bigger. Some people claim volume or "muscle confusion" principles work too, but they never did for me.
@ donny, you know Yates tore his bicep while doing rows right? What does that have to do with 1 arm chins?
Furthermore, he tore it not cause of the rows themselves, but because he was doing them improperly and going beyond failure few weeks out from a contest (something he said should have never done).
NO relation to the exercise being discussed in this thread.
You also haven't answered the questions about the bench press or squats.
of course i know he did them rowing and TWO handed.. my point ..if you think about it for a moment is..if he did this with two hands donīt tell me putting a high amount of stress with one hand is not more risky. i suggest you speak to a Sports Doctor or Physiotherapist.
-
also you write you are still working on standard chin ups and have better development than with curls. I agree you will get bicep development but you will never work the biceps like with curls...
-
agree fully with this statement, but one needs progressive tension overload to get bigger muscles and that's just fact
i've never increased the size of my muscles without adding weight to the bar never
if someone can actually get bigger muscles without progressive tension overload then i'd like to see it
and as far as form is concerned, yes it is very important, and my form on chins is spot on as i start each rep from a dead hang and i pull myself all the way up till my chin is well over the bar and i pause in that top position for a second or two
Agreed. Full contraction and full extension no momentum or jerking, that's where you get injured. To progress add weight when your rep range has been surpassed. Not rocket science.
-
of course i know he did them rowing and TWO handed.. my point ..if you think about it for a moment is..if he did this with two hands donīt tell me putting a high amount of stress with one hand is not more risky. i suggest you speak to a Sports Doctor or Physiotherapist.
The reason he tore his biceps was not because of the stress placed on it only. He tore it mainly due to form issues, Yates himself said he trained too explosively at times, and he tore it specially because he was going to failure while being highly depleted few weeks out from a contest.
1 arm chins would not present any problem, no matter how much stress they place on the muscle. Note that stress must be on the muscle, not the joints, tendons, etc. Again, good form is important.
And to repeat myself, one should do 1 arm chins when they are strong enough for them. An injury could happen if someone does them from the start without being ready yet. Imagine being able to squat 225 for 8 reps at the most, but somewhat trying for 405 all of a sudden. What do you think would happen? A tremendous injury obviously. Same concept with the 1 arm chins, you need to ease into them.
-
The reason he tore his biceps was not because of the stress placed on it only. He tore it mainly due to form issues, Yates himself said he trained too explosively at times, and he tore it specially because he was going to failure while being highly depleted few weeks out from a contest.
1 arm chins would not present any problem, no matter how much stress they place on the muscle. Note that stress must be on the muscle, not the joints, tendons, etc. Again, good form is important.
And to repeat myself, one should do 1 arm chins when they are strong enough for them. An injury could happen if someone does them from the start without being ready yet. Imagine being able to squat 225 for 8 reps at the most, but somewhat trying for 405 all of a sudden. What do you think would happen? A tremendous injury obviously. Same concept with the 1 arm chins, you need to ease into them.
well you train how you feel.. donīt need to repeat yourself Son. i do not recommend one arm chins and i do not agree chins give better bicep development than curls. I am not against them because i did them today in an arm workout WITH curls.
-
The reason he tore his biceps was not because of the stress placed on it only. He tore it mainly due to form issues, Yates himself said he trained too explosively at times, and he tore it specially because he was going to failure while being highly depleted few weeks out from a contest.
1 arm chins would not present any problem, no matter how much stress they place on the muscle. Note that stress must be on the muscle, not the joints, tendons, etc. Again, good form is important.
And to repeat myself, one should do 1 arm chins when they are strong enough for them. An injury could happen if someone does them from the start without being ready yet. Imagine being able to squat 225 for 8 reps at the most, but somewhat trying for 405 all of a sudden. What do you think would happen? A tremendous injury obviously. Same concept with the 1 arm chins, you need to ease into them.
can't agree with what you wrote ..that it does not matter how much stress you put on the biceps...you understand biceps are small ...or maybe you don't.
-
Anyone mention the outstanding development of biceps that most gymnast have. Not too bad at all, including triceps. They don't seem to spend too much time on curls with BB, DB or cables. All bar & ring work. Gymnast have been know to do one arm work in training.
Back in Yates day there seemed a lot of bicep, pec, etc muscle insert injuries. A little secret was that a overuse of certain drugs (or combo of) was responsible. Yate was using the curl grip row, if I remember correctly, when snap went the bicep. This movement is one of the better lat builders, though offering quite a lot of stress on the biceps.
Still puzzling why such an over reaction to this one arm chinning exercise, from one person. The more he post his fuzzy logic, the more suspect he becomes as to his motives. Sure he may be great guy, meeting him in person. But something happens to a few who come on the internet, the whole persona seems to change for the worse. Good Luck.
-
i never got shit out of iso moves, ever
compounds crush isos
-
Personally I have never really tried one arm chins. I attempted them once and was able to get half way up. Then after watching some videos of people doing them I realized that this lift is as much skill as strength. I was trying to do them like a regular chin up when I should have been trying to corckscrew (best way of putting it) my way up.
In my opinion it's a neat trick to be able to do but it's not as productive as regular weighted chin/pull up variations.
Now to my favorite part, this quote: AJ once said "once you can do 10 full-range 1-arm chins then your arms will be as big as they are ever gonna be"
This would all depend on your BW wouldn't it? What about tricep development?
This is one of the many examples of why you gotta take everything AJ said about training with a big grain of salt.
-
We'll some people jpm can't take any critical comments and react with sarcastic comments. A bit stupid really.
-
Personally I have never really tried one arm chins. I attempted them once and was able to get half way up. Then after watching some videos of people doing them I realized that this lift is as much skill as strength. I was trying to do them like a regular chin up when I should have been trying to corckscrew (best way of putting it) my way up.
In my opinion it's a neat trick to be able to do but it's not as productive as regular weighted chin/pull up variations.
Now to my favorite part, this quote: AJ once said "once you can do 10 full-range 1-arm chins then your arms will be as big as they are ever gonna be"
This would all depend on your BW wouldn't it? What about tricep development?
This is one of the many examples of why you gotta take everything AJ said about training with a big grain of salt.
100%,correct
-
Personally I have never really tried one arm chins. I attempted them once and was able to get half way up. Then after watching some videos of people doing them I realized that this lift is as much skill as strength. I was trying to do them like a regular chin up when I should have been trying to corckscrew (best way of putting it) my way up.
In my opinion it's a neat trick to be able to do but it's not as productive as regular weighted chin/pull up variations.
Now to my favorite part, this quote: AJ once said "once you can do 10 full-range 1-arm chins then your arms will be as big as they are ever gonna be"
This would all depend on your BW wouldn't it? What about tricep development?
This is one of the many examples of why you gotta take everything AJ said about training with a big grain of salt.
agreed about the importance of weighted chins over 1-armed chins
and also agreed about your take on the AJ statement
remember, AJ had outstanding biceps but his tris were just above average
there's a pic somewhere of him standing behind casey v both of them flexing their bis, and AJ's bis are as big as casey v's
-
can't agree with what you wrote ..that it does not matter how much stress you put on the biceps...you understand biceps are small ...or maybe you don't.
You must've missed the part where I posted that one must be strong enough to try 1 arm chins in good form, then and only then will stress on the muscle be actually productive.
I'm still waiting for an answer on the squats and benches example....would you agree with someone recommending against them?
-
well you train how you feel.. donīt need to repeat yourself Son. i do not recommend one arm chins and i do not agree chins give better bicep development than curls. I am not against them because i did them today in an arm workout WITH curls.
Its fine if you don't agree man, but curls never did a thing for me. Chins on the other hand, made my biceps (and lats) grow better than any other movement.
Actually, direct arm work never did much other than give a nice temporary pump, progression on compounds is where its at.
But apparently curls do work for you, that is great, we're all different, no problem. To say that 1 arm chins are a no no because they are "too risky" and of no value is nonsense though.
-
But you cant Do them..so why are you saying they are so great? How can you know? Because aj said so?
-
progression on compounds is where its at.
yep
-
I agree but curls are important too ...try preacher curls with your chins.
-
Remember bill pearl told me on the phone to do some preacher curls too ..because I too just did chins . He said you need to do a curl ex and asked if I could do preacher curls..but everyone does their own thing
-
Anyway enjoy your training... ;)
-
Remember bill pearl told me on the phone to do some preacher curls too ..because I too just did chins . He said you need to do a curl ex and asked if I could do preacher curls..but everyone does their own thing
If you have weak biceps I agree.
-
But you cant Do them..so why are you saying they are so great? How can you know? Because aj said so?
Well, let's say you can bench 100 lbs, wouldn't working your way up to 200 lbs be great? Same thing with chins, the 1 arm version is just a way to add more resistance to the muscles, progressing in a way if adding external weight is not available.
-
If you have weak biceps I agree.
well, as you already know, i have weak biceps
and these chins are making them look not so weak anymore ;)
-
Actually, back when I used to do direct arm work, preacher curls were one of the least productive movements for me. I always enjoyed standing curls more. Enjoy your training too.
-
I usually pick one biceps excercise and one brachialis (hammer curls, reverse curls variation) excercise per training cycle, and do one of them at the end of my back workouts for 3-4 sets . Works pretty good.