Roger Clemens has an era of 5.07

[pumpster]

What a shock that someone closing in on 50 years old finally hit the wall.

Just another measure of the Yankee's desperation bringing him in. How many millions are loving it.

[njflex]

ITS A VERY FRUSTRATING YEAR ......all other 100 mill or more payroll teams are in 1st,they really have no heart which too say as a yankee fan is a insult,its just not their this year.they have the greatest reliever in the history of baseball and they can't get to him.if a rod wasnt hot at his times they would have only 15 or 2o wins.all their starters other than wang is under 500  .

[UPINTHEMGUTS]

They brought him in the game to get some work. He hadn't pitched in days. I think you had too many ice cold beers.

Bingo!

[Old_Rooster]

I love Clemens robbing the yankees of 18 million!

[Grape Ape]

ITS A VERY FRUSTRATING YEAR ......all other 100 mill or more payroll teams are in 1st,they really have no heart which too say as a yankee fan is a insult,its just not their this year.they have the greatest reliever in the history of baseball and they can't get to him.if a rod wasnt hot at his times they would have only 15 or 2o wins.all their starters other than wang is under 500  .

Yes, it's been tough.  The rash of injuries and spells of lackluster play to date has sucked.   The Yankees future this year will be made or broken in the 27 games following the ASB.  Those games consist of only TB, Tor, KC, Bal, and the CWS.  If they are clicking like they are capaple of, they could win a large majority of those games and be right in it.

Look at it this way, any other team that had to send out a rookie in 40% of their starts that they had no intention of starting at all wouldn't even be considered for the playoffs this year.  The Yankees still are because, on paper, they have the talent to get there.

Of course, they can't make the playoffs every year.  If they don't, the sox fans' will act like they're done forever.  Not the guys here, but the endless supply of idiots who flood the airwaves.  I've never seen such an arrogant fan base for a team that has on win in 89 years.

[headhuntersix]

Naw..i think your wrong.....true fans are waiting for the wheels to come off the wagon. The arrogant ones are folks who suddenly realized we had sports teams after the 01' superbowl. Its trendy as hell to go to  a game. Except from what i see on TV..most fans are on friggen cell phones. Ask the guys that stil live in Mass. Hell I try not to talk shit about the Pats. I started to get overconfident during the AFC Championship 21-3 what could happen...yeah!!! As for the rest of your post...The east has been a pain in the ass for the yanks..Baltimore/Toronto...I am still worried so I hope we blow u guys out early..if u guys make to the wild card it will be another ALCS showdown.

[ieffinhatecardio]

There are arrogant and obnoxious Yankee fans and Red Sox fans.

Of course as a Sox fan I think the Yankee fans are much worse, especially the ones I hear on WEEI, some of them are just insane but I can certainly see why people think there are a lot of arrogant and obnoxious Red Sox fans. Some of them are embarrassing.

Anyone heard that little clip they play on EEI from that female Yankees broadcaster? I think it's from when Clemens addressed the crowd from the owner's box and Yankee Stadium this year. It's the funniest clip they play.

"Goodness gracious, of all the dramatic things I've ever seen". LOL

[body88]

There are arrogant and obnoxious Yankee fans and Red Sox fans.

Of course as a Sox fan I think the Yankee fans are much worse, especially the ones I hear on WEEI, some of them are just insane but I can certainly see why people think there are a lot of arrogant and obnoxious Red Sox fans. Some of them are embarrassing.

Anyone heard that little clip they play on EEI from that female Yankees broadcaster? I think it's from when Clemens addressed the crowd from the owner's box and Yankee Stadium this year. It's the funniest clip they play.

"Goodness gracious, of all the dramatic things I've ever seen". LOL

Hahah that was embarrassing. That ladie is a total yahoo.

[headhuntersix]

I missed that..I'll have to get on WEEI and pull it up. I used to listen to them over the net. Am i wrong or are u guys waiting for the other shoe to drop on this season?

[ieffinhatecardio]

Interesting question, I don't know if people are waiting for the other shoe to drop but there's a lot to be worried about.

The Sox have a terrible offense right now and they're winning mostly on pitching which rarely if ever lasts in the A.L. East.

Things that worry me.
1. The offense.
2. Ortiz and Manny have WEAK hr/rbi totals and have been decidedly unclutch this year.
3. Lugo (SUCKS), Drew and Coco have been offensive busts for half the season, all of them hitting under .235 for much of the season. Of course Lugo is hitting .188 now. 
4. The defense is not particularly good this year with Lugo at shortstop and Lowell having a sub-par year defensively. Lugo is a weak shortstop.
5. Good pitching demands good/great defense and we don't have it.
6. History says that Youks and Lowell will slow way down offensively in the second half. That would kill us.
7. Schilling is looking old and frail.
8. Wakefield, if his ball isn't dancing all he's doing is throwing batting practice pitches. Hell, his fastball is only around 72 MPH, that's slower than bp pitches.

There are times when it seems amazing that we have such a big lead with that offense and parts of the defense. If not for Beckett, Dice-K, Tavarez and the two STUDS in the bullpen we wouldn't be very good.

[Grape Ape]

Naw..i think your wrong.....true fans are waiting for the wheels to come off the wagon. The arrogant ones are folks who suddenly realized we had sports teams after the 01' superbowl. Its trendy as hell to go to  a game. Except from what i see on TV..most fans are on friggen cell phones. Ask the guys that stil live in Mass. Hell I try not to talk shit about the Pats. I started to get overconfident during the AFC Championship 21-3 what could happen...yeah!!! As for the rest of your post...The east has been a pain in the ass for the yanks..Baltimore/Toronto...I am still worried so I hope we blow u guys out early..if u guys make to the wild card it will be another ALCS showdown.

You're probably right.  I live in Mass too and have seen a lot of it.

One of my good friends is one of the biggest Pats fans I've ever seen.  After the Carolina game, he said to me "I didn't go too nuts, I was pysched, but I almost just feel RELIEVED that they didn't lose".  I told him "Now you know what it feels like".   The Pats are at the point the Yanks have been over the last 11 years - anything short of the big prize feels like shit.

[Grape Ape]

There are arrogant and obnoxious Yankee fans and Red Sox fans.

Of course as a Sox fan I think the Yankee fans are much worse, especially the ones I hear on WEEI, some of them are just insane but I can certainly see why people think there are a lot of arrogant and obnoxious Red Sox fans. Some of them are embarrassing.

Anyone heard that little clip they play on EEI from that female Yankees broadcaster? I think it's from when Clemens addressed the crowd from the owner's box and Yankee Stadium this year. It's the funniest clip they play.

"Goodness gracious, of all the dramatic things I've ever seen". LOL

This is pretty much right on.  Most of the Yankee fans who call EEI make me cringe.  I've wanted to call the Mustard and Johnson show to set them straight, but the hold times are ridiculous.

The Waldman clip of Clemens' return will become the stuff of legend.  On WFAN NY, they played it all day, ripping her at every chance.

[Grape Ape]

Interesting question, I don't know if people are waiting for the other shoe to drop but there's a lot to be worried about.

The Sox have a terrible offense right now and they're winning mostly on pitching which rarely if ever lasts in the A.L. East.

Things that worry me.
1. The offense.
2. Ortiz and Manny have WEAK hr/rbi totals and have been decidedly unclutch this year.
3. Lugo (SUCKS), Drew and Coco have been offensive busts for half the season, all of them hitting under .235 for much of the season. Of course Lugo is hitting .188 now. 
4. The defense is not particularly good this year with Lugo at shortstop and Lowell having a sub-par year defensively. Lugo is a weak shortstop.
5. Good pitching demands good/great defense and we don't have it.
6. History says that Youks and Lowell will slow way down offensively in the second half. That would kill us.
7. Schilling is looking old and frail.
8. Wakefield, if his ball isn't dancing all he's doing is throwing batting practice pitches. Hell, his fastball is only around 72 MPH, that's slower than bp pitches.

There are times when it seems amazing that we have such a big lead with that offense and parts of the defense. If not for Beckett, Dice-K, Tavarez and the two STUDS in the bullpen we wouldn't be very good.

All your points are completely valid, except this team continue to win in spite of them.  Sometimes teams have years like this - they only score 2 runs when the other team scores 1, but you score 8 when they score 7.  They have won a bunch of the Tavarez starts, which really helps.

If Schilling is out, they're going to have to get somebody.  DiceK and Beckett are good, but Tavarez/Wakefield and even Lester could be trouble.  They have enough of a lead to take their time figuring it out, though.

[Flex 215]

        Hmmm...I didn't see any Red Sox fans posting about Clemens' last couple of outings. The "five-inning pitcher" has pitched 8 full innings two straight starts. And in those 16 innings, he's given up 9 baserunners and 2 runs. Clemons' ERA is now down to 3.63. Yeah it's only 2 starts, but his ERA is for all 6 starts, and pretty good.
        It's about 20 points lower than Dice-K's ERA. Now Matsusaka has been pitching all year, and has 10 wins, so it's not fair to fully compare. But the Yankees' investment in Clemens might turn out to be pretty good.

        I just thought that since a Red Sox fan started this thread to ridicule the Yankees and Clemens, that it should be brought to peoples' attention that Clemens now has a lower ERA than Dice-K.

        I believe the Yankees could have a better record in the second half than Boston, but 10 games better is asking a lot. I think even if Boston fades, they have a big enough cushion.

       But then again there was 1978! 

[body88]

        Hmmm...I didn't see any Red Sox fans posting about Clemens' last couple of outings. The "five-inning pitcher" has pitched 8 full innings two straight starts. And in those 16 innings, he's given up 9 baserunners and 2 runs. Clemons' ERA is now down to 3.63. Yeah it's only 2 starts, but his ERA is for all 6 starts, and pretty good.
        It's about 20 points lower than Dice-K's ERA. Now Matsusaka has been pitching all year, and has 10 wins, so it's not fair to fully compare. But the Yankees' investment in Clemens might turn out to be pretty good.

        I just thought that since a Red Sox fan started this thread to ridicule the Yankees and Clemens, that it should be brought to peoples' attention that Clemens now has a lower ERA than Dice-K.

        I believe the Yankees could have a better record in the second half than Boston, but 10 games better is asking a lot. I think even if Boston fades, they have a big enough cushion.

       But then again there was 1978! 

And we didn't see you posting about Rogers first four outings. Dice K is a rookie to the MLB. It will take him at least a full season to fully adjust to things. He would have more then ten wins if he got any run support at the start of the season. The kid has fantastic stuff, and  one day will be an ace. Comparing the two is silly. Dice K is a 26 year old rookie to the MLB. Roger is 40 plus, and pitches for a quarter of the season for 20 million bucks. Who would have the better era if both guys pitched the same amount of innings / games? I don't think it would be physically possible for Roger to pitch the same amount of innings as Dice k. How many complete games has rodge thrown? Roger is making almost 2 times what dice k does this season, for a quarter of the work! Apples and Oranges. K is a young gun signed to a long term deal. Rodge is a vet signed for a few months for 20 million dollars. At the end of the day the season is a failure if you dont win the ws. Is Roger going to make that happen?

4 awful outings and you don't hear a word from yanks fans. Out of the seven times Rodge has taken the ball this year he has two good performances. Might want to wait before you claim he is no longer a 5 - 6 inning pitcher. I would not say using stats and facts to gauge Rogers performance (when this thread was started) was "ridiculing" the Yankees. More like looking at Rogers stats and being honest.

Papi has been out lately, as well as Youk and Donelly. Schill is on the dl resting his shoulder. With a ten game lead they can afford to rest guys as much as possible that are banged up. I fully expect the sox to heat up again.

[Grape Ape]

4 awful outings and you don't hear a word from yanks fans. Out of the seven times Rodge has taken the ball this year he has two good performances. Might want to wait before you claim he is no longer a 5 - 6 inning pitcher. I would not say using stats and facts to gauge Rogers performance (when this thread was started) was "ridiculing" the Yankees. More like looking at Rogers stats and being honest.

 

Wrong.

4 awful outings?  Compared to who - Cy Young?

His first start was 6.0 IP, 3ER, 7ks, a quality start.  His second against the Mets was 6.1IP, 2ER, 8Ks, another quality start.  His games in Colorodo and Baltimore were poor.

So, using the correct numbers, that's four quality starts out of six, two of which were fantastic.  You could also easily argue that the first four were made on a limited number of "pre-season" type warmup starts, and that the last two are following the progression a pitcher would make as he got his workload up to normal.

As far as the notion that Clemens is 5 or 6 (max) inning pitcher, this was just another pile of drivel out of RSN that all the lemmings grasped on to.  If you look at his numbers from last year, it shows that Clemens was lifted 4 or 5  times for a pinch hitter, when his pitch count was low enough to warrant an extra inning or more.  This would easily raise his average IP.

[body88]

Wrong.

4 awful outings?  Compared to who - Cy Young?

His first start was 6.0 IP, 3ER, 7ks, a quality start.  His second against the Mets was 6.1IP, 2ER, 8Ks, another quality start.  His games in Colorodo and Baltimore were poor.

So, using the correct numbers, that's four quality starts out of six, two of which were fantastic.  You could also easily argue that the first four were made on a limited number of "pre-season" type warmup starts, and that the last two are following the progression a pitcher would make as he got his workload up to normal.

As far as the notion that Clemens is 5 or 6 (max) inning pitcher, this was just another pile of drivel out of RSN that all the lemmings grasped on to.  If you look at his numbers from last year, it shows that Clemens was lifted 4 or 5  times for a pinch hitter, when his pitch count was low enough to warrant an extra inning or more.  This would easily raise his average IP.

At the time this thread was started Roger had an era over 5 and was yet to go deeper then 6 innings in a game. Nuff said.

[ieffinhatecardio]

        Hmmm...I didn't see any Red Sox fans posting about Clemens' last couple of outings. The "five-inning pitcher" has pitched 8 full innings two straight starts. And in those 16 innings, he's given up 9 baserunners and 2 runs. Clemons' ERA is now down to 3.63. Yeah it's only 2 starts, but his ERA is for all 6 starts, and pretty good.
        It's about 20 points lower than Dice-K's ERA. Now Matsusaka has been pitching all year, and has 10 wins, so it's not fair to fully compare. But the Yankees' investment in Clemens might turn out to be pretty good.

        I just thought that since a Red Sox fan started this thread to ridicule the Yankees and Clemens, that it should be brought to peoples' attention that Clemens now has a lower ERA than Dice-K.

        I believe the Yankees could have a better record in the second half than Boston, but 10 games better is asking a lot. I think even if Boston fades, they have a big enough cushion.

       But then again there was 1978! 

Hyperbole is your friend.

I'm curious why you didn't mention the fact that Dice-K had one of the best ERA's in the Majors for June, he had one bad start in his last 7. In fact I think he gave up a total of 5-6 runs over those starts. Interesting that you would leave that little fact out of your post.

As for Clemens being worth the investment, it can't and won't happen but that's not what the Yankees care about. There's simply no way to justify his salary, it's too outrageous an amount to put any value on. The Yankees have the money to spend so spending it ultimately costs them nothing. As long as it didn't cost them prospects or usable players then for them the price isn't too steep. 

[Grape Ape]

At the time this thread was started Roger had an era over 5 and was yet to go deeper then 6 innings in a game. Nuff said.

That's not what the point was.  You said all his outings outside of his last two were awful.  The first two weren't.  You were using hyperbole to make a point, and it was easily refuted by facts.

[Grape Ape]

        Hmmm...I didn't see any Red Sox fans posting about Clemens' last couple of outings. The "five-inning pitcher" has pitched 8 full innings two straight starts. And in those 16 innings, he's given up 9 baserunners and 2 runs. Clemons' ERA is now down to 3.63. Yeah it's only 2 starts, but his ERA is for all 6 starts, and pretty good.
        It's about 20 points lower than Dice-K's ERA. Now Matsusaka has been pitching all year, and has 10 wins, so it's not fair to fully compare. But the Yankees' investment in Clemens might turn out to be pretty good.

        I just thought that since a Red Sox fan started this thread to ridicule the Yankees and Clemens, that it should be brought to peoples' attention that Clemens now has a lower ERA than Dice-K.

        I believe the Yankees could have a better record in the second half than Boston, but 10 games better is asking a lot. I think even if Boston fades, they have a big enough cushion.

       But then again there was 1978! 

If you're going to represent us, at least spell Clemens name right.

Clemens last two starts were exactly what his first four were - small sample size.  The next two months will tell us what we're getting out of Clemens.  Comparing Dice-K to Clemens right now is useless, since they don't have equal bodies of work this year.  Any Yankee fan who wouldn't want Matsusaka on their staff right now is fooling themselves.

I too expect the Yankees to outperform the sox in the second half, but I'm not sure of the margin.   The Yankees have had one of the hardest schedules and a slew of injuries to their staff.  They should get much better in the second half.

[headhuntersix]

The Yanks are playing the Royals in two weeks. I'm headed out to game 1 and 2. Game two is the anniversary of the Pine Tar deal between Brett and Martin. We got seats near 3rd base so I can heckle Arod and convince him to sign with us next year.

[bmacsys]

The Yanks are playing the Royals in two weeks. I'm headed out to game 1 and 2. Game two is the anniversary of the Pine Tar deal between Brett and Martin. We got seats near 3rd base so I can heckle Arod and convince him to sign with us next year.

After all the shit coming from Red Sox fans mouths about him and you think he would sign in Beantown? No way. Roger Clemens will put on a Sox uniform again before A-Rod ever will.

[body88]

After all the shit coming from Red Sox fans mouths about him and you think he would sign in Beantown? No way. Roger Clemens will put on a Sox uniform again before A-Rod ever will.

He has said he would like to play in Boston before. Yankees fans give him more shit then sox fans ever did. Remember when Damon said he would never play for the Yankees publically? Arod has never said anything close to that, and Damon jumped ship for the "enemy". It could happen imo. Who knows with these two teams.

[Grape Ape]

The Yanks are playing the Royals in two weeks. I'm headed out to game 1 and 2. Game two is the anniversary of the Pine Tar deal between Brett and Martin. We got seats near 3rd base so I can heckle Arod and convince him to sign with us next year.

George Brett completely lost his mind on that day.  I saw it live.

He went totally batshit.

[bmacsys]

George Brett completely lost his mind on that day.  I saw it live.

He went totally batshit.

I saw it to on good old WPIX.