Author Topic: In Theatres April 18, 2008: EXPELLED: No Intelligence Allowed  (Read 10131 times)

loco

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Ben Stein, in the new film EXPELLED: No Intelligence Allowed
 
His heroic and, at times, shocking journey confronting the world’s top scientists, educators and philosophers, regarding the persecution of the many by an elite few.
 
Coming to a theater near you on April 18, 2008
 
Ben travels the world on his quest, and learns an awe-inspiring truth…that bewilders him, then angers him…and then spurs him to action!
 
Ben realizes that he has been “Expelled,” and that educators and scientists are being ridiculed, denied tenure and even fired – for the “crime” of merely believing that there might be evidence of “design” in nature, and that perhaps life is not just the result of accidental, random chance.
To which Ben Says: "Enough!" And then gets busy. NOBODY messes with Ben.
http://www.expelledthemovie.com/home.php




loco

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Re: In Theatres April 18, 2008: EXPELLED: No Intelligence Allowed
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2008, 11:20:25 AM »
Richard Dawkins Infiltrate Events for Intelligent Design Film

By Kevin Mooney and Josiah Ryan
CNSNews.com Staff Writers
April 02, 2008

(CNSNews.com) - Outspoken opponents of the Intelligent Design (ID) movement, including scientists Richard Dawkins and Paul Zachary "PZ" Myers, have managed to infiltrate private screenings for a soon-to-be released movie on the subject, according to a film producer who helped to organize the events.

Dawkins - an Oxford University professor, biologist, and author of "The God Delusion" - attempted to gain entry to a private screening of the film, "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed," on March 20 in Bloomington, Minn., as did Myers, a biology professor at the University of Minnesota.

Dawkins was successful; Myers was not.

However, Myers managed to intrude upon a telephone press conference call the next day that included Ben Stein, the film's narrator, and the film's producers.

"Expelled" calls attention to the plight of highly credentialed scholars who have been forced out of prestigious academic positions because they proposed Intelligent Design as a possible alternative to Charles Darwin's 150-year-old theories about the origins of life .

Instead of entertaining a debate on the merits of competing theories, the scientific establishment has moved to suppress the ID movement in a "systematic and ruthless" way at odds with America's founding principles, the film asserts.

The private screenings are designed to help build grassroots support for the film and to call attention to the mistreatment of scientists who are working to open new doors of inquiry that could help to advance human knowledge, Mark Mathis, an associate producer for the film, said in an interview.

A computer glitch, however, made it possible for certain individuals to RSVP to some screenings when they in fact had not been invited, Mathis said. The same glitch also occurred on March 19 in Boston where at least 30 percent of the audience members were antagonistic toward the film's message, he said.

Although the filmmakers noticed that Dawkins had arrived at the Minneapolis screening uninvited, they decided to let him in anyway after he signed in as "Clinton Dawkins," Mathis said.

Meanwhile, about a half hour into a telephone press conference last Friday - designed to allow reporters to question Stein and the film's producers - a caller identified himself as PZ Myers after he had been patched into the call and demanded the producers cease and desist from supposedly twisting the truth.

"You do know that both PZ Myers and Richard Dawkins have posted substantial criticism of your movie don't you?" said Myers.

Prompting laughter and astonishment from Stein, the producers, and the reporters on the conference call, Stein said to Myers, "You are a very persistent person."

Mathis asked Myers to leave the call, saying, "Mr. Myers, as you have done previously with trying to sneak into the film, you have come uninvited to this call, and I am going to ask you to do the honorable thing."

Myers responded: "You will ask me to do the honorable thing while you do the dishonorable thing of continuing your policy of lies."

At the screening that Dawkins entered, Myers also tried to enter but was spotted by an "Expelled" staffer.

Mathis told Cybercast News Service that for months Myers has been disseminating information through his blog about the film that is not accurate and for this reason he was asked to leave.

Mathis said Myers is welcome to see the movie but he wants him to pay admission "like everybody else. I don't want this person seeing our film for free," Mathis said. "I want him to come back on [April] the 18th and pay his own money."

Although Myers and dozens of blogs have seized on the idea that the "Expelled" filmmakers, who complain about scientists being expelled from academia are now doing the same thing, Mathis said that the real irony is being missed.

"Myers is free to see the film once it is officially released," said Mathis. "But those individuals who have devoted their lives to scientific study might not ever regain their posts after exploring new avenues of inquiry simply because they do not concur with the Darwinian view."

After the Minneapolis screening ended, the filmmakers fielded questions from the audience. Dawkins demanded to know why his friend Myers was not permitted into the screening, said Mathis.

"Most of what he had to say did not have anything to do with the content of the film," said Mathis. "He did get into how we did the interviews under false pretenses, which is not true. And then I said, 'Who invited you? This is a private screening. You are here under false pretenses,' I said as a dig back at him."

Stein - a former White House speechwriter who now works as a Hollywood actor - interviewed academics and scientists on both sides of the debate throughout the film. See Related Story

Dawkins and Myers are outspoken proponents of evolutionary theory who have been critical of "Expelled." They contend the film is edited and crafted in a duplicitous and misleading manner that misrepresents their views, but Mathis denied that and said the interviews were not set up under false pretenses.

Dawkins discussed this episode and other aspects of the film in his own blog.

In the film, Dawkins revealed that his belief in evolution helped to push him toward a belief in atheism. "I'm bad news for the science lobby," Dawkins said in an interview with Stein.

If called to testify in a court case, he could not deny the connection between Darwinism and atheism, Dawkins said in the film.
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/viewstory.asp?Page=/Culture/archive/200804/CUL20080402a.html

Nordic Superman

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Re: In Theatres April 18, 2008: EXPELLED: No Intelligence Allowed
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2008, 03:41:08 PM »
So what is the summary of this film?

Is it about a man who believes in intelligent design (Ben Stein)?
الاسلام هو شيطانية

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Re: In Theatres April 18, 2008: EXPELLED: No Intelligence Allowed
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2008, 04:03:24 PM »
Well, like I said many times before I am a big believer in stupid design. If we were designed, the designer is a fucking idiot.
I hate the State.

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Re: In Theatres April 18, 2008: EXPELLED: No Intelligence Allowed
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2008, 04:04:38 PM »
Well, like I said many times before I am a big believer in stupid design. If were designed, the designer is a fucking idiot.

Yes, if there was a designer, the only thing he designed perfectly was me. Everything around me is absolute shit. I expect more.
الاسلام هو شيطانية

loco

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Re: In Theatres April 18, 2008: EXPELLED: No Intelligence Allowed
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2008, 04:49:03 PM »
Yes, if there was a designer, the only thing he designed perfectly was me. Everything around me is absolute shit. I expect more.

LOL  ;D

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Re: In Theatres April 18, 2008: EXPELLED: No Intelligence Allowed
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2008, 07:06:27 AM »
Yes, if there was a designer, the only thing he designed perfectly was me. Everything around me is absolute shit. I expect more.
;D
R

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Re: In Theatres April 18, 2008: EXPELLED: No Intelligence Allowed
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2008, 08:12:25 AM »
loco, this film is full of lies. They LIED to the scientists they interviewed in order to get interviews, they LIE all through the film, they LIE about the so-called "scientists" they claim are persecuted, they STOLE copyright material from Harvard, and more...

This is a big pack of lies from the frenzied creationists, and they really should have found a narrator with a less nauseating voice than Ben Stein.

But then again, is it any surprise that creationists lie for Jesus?

For the truth about this movie, see www.expelledexposed.com

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Re: In Theatres April 18, 2008: EXPELLED: No Intelligence Allowed
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2008, 08:16:23 AM »
Here is Fox News' review of "Expelled." This must really sting, considering that it comes from the media mouthpiece of the right.

Ben Stein: Win His Career

After seeing a new non-fiction film starring Comedy Central’s Ben Stein, you may not only be able to win his money, but also his career.

Stein is that whiny little guy with the monotone voice that makes him seem funny and an unlikely "character" for TV appearances. But that career may be over come April 18, when a movie he co-wrote, narrates and appears in, called "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed," is released.

Directed by one Nathan Frankowski, "Expelled" is a sloppy, all-over-the-place, poorly made (and not just a little boring) "expose" of the scientific community. It’s not very exciting. But it does show that Stein, who’s carved out a career selling eye drops in commercials and amusing us on sitcoms, is either completely nuts or so avaricious that he’s abandoned all good sense to make a buck.

To wit: Stein, Frankowski and pals say in "Expelled" that perfectly good scientists and educators are being stigmatized for wanting to teach their students creationism and "intelligent design" — in other words, junk science — in addition to or instead of conventionally accepted Darwinism. You see, Stein, like some other celebrities, finally has shown his true colors and they aren’t so pretty.

The gist of Stein’s involvement is: He’s outraged! He believes in God! God created the universe! How can we not avail our students of this theory? What do you mean we’re just molecules?

What the producers of this film would love, love, love is a controversy. That’s because it’s being marketed by the same people who brought us "The Passion of the Christ." They’re hoping someone will latch onto an anti-Semitism theme here, since there’s a visit to a concentration camp and the raised idea — apparently typical of the intelligent design community — that somehow the theory of evolution is so evil that it caused the Holocaust. Alas, this is such a warped premise that no one’s biting.

The whole idea of Stein, a Jew, jumping on the intelligent design bandwagon of the theory of evolution begetting the Nazis is so distasteful you wonder what in — sorry — God’s name — he was thinking when he got into this. Who cares, really, if "Expelled" is anti-Semitic? It will come and go without much fanfare.

But Stein is another matter. Can he really be amusing selling eye drops or acting like a nebbish on game shows if we now have this new insight into his thinking?

You know Ben Stein from his voice. He used it to intone Ferris Bueller’s name iconically at the beginning of that 20-year-old Matthew Broderick movie. His laconic delivery and deadpan presence have given him a benign celebrity — until now.

But this is what he wrote last fall on the "Expelled" movie Web site:

"Darwinism is still very much alive, utterly dominating biology. Despite the fact that no one has ever been able to prove the creation of a single distinct species by Darwinist means, Darwinism dominates the academy and the media. Darwinism also has not one meaningful word to say on the origins of organic life, a striking lacuna in a theory supposedly explaining life.

"Alas, Darwinism has had a far bloodier life span than Imperialism. Darwinism, perhaps mixed with Imperialism, gave us Social Darwinism, a form of racism so vicious that it countenanced the Holocaust against the Jews and mass murder of many other groups in the name of speeding along the evolutionary process."

In a word: Urgggh. Suddenly Stein is not so amusing anymore. I want my eye drops from someone else.

PS: Following "The Passion" release pattern, "Expelled" will open wide on the 18th, but mostly in rural and poor neighborhoods. It’s got just one theater in all of New York City, in Times Square, none in places like Beverly Hills or wealthier, better-educated urban neighborhoods where more "evolved" people might live.

According to the film’s Web site, the producers are in a whopping 45 theaters in North Carolina, and a mere seven in Massachusetts, 35 in Georgia, 11 in New Jersey, four in Connecticut and one in Vermont. And so on. There are huge numbers of screens in Florida and Texas taking the film, particularly seven in San Antonio. If I lived in the Deep South, I’d boycott the filmmakers for thinking of me as this gullible and unsophisticated.

Decker

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Re: In Theatres April 18, 2008: EXPELLED: No Intelligence Allowed
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2008, 08:30:58 AM »
The assault on academia by the religiously intolerant always relies on victimization. 

The reason our scientifically challenged ID arguments fail is b/c of a vast conspiracy that always crushes and punishes questioning of Lucifer's evolution.

It's not bad science, its an evil conspiracy.

The problem for those in the real world is that we have to waste our time addressing this kind of nonsense as if it's legitimate b/c politics can be used as a club to destroy valid scientists and scientific institutions. 

Just look at what happened in Kansas when the religious extremists took over their local board of education a few years ago.

Kansas Education Board First to Back 'Intelligent Design'
Schools to Teach Doubts About Evolutionary Theory


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/08/AR2005110801211.html

loco

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Re: In Theatres April 18, 2008: EXPELLED: No Intelligence Allowed
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2008, 08:47:47 AM »
loco, this film is full of lies. They LIED to the scientists they interviewed in order to get interviews, they LIE all through the film, they LIE about the so-called "scientists" they claim are persecuted, they STOLE copyright material from Harvard, and more...

This is a big pack of lies from the frenzied creationists, and they really should have found a narrator with a less nauseating voice than Ben Stein.

But then again, is it any surprise that creationists lie for Jesus?

For the truth about this movie, see www.expelledexposed.com

Ben Stein lied for Jesus?  He is not a Christian, is he? 

I have not seen the movie yet.  You should go see it, columbusdude82.  Your boy, Richard Dawkins saw it.  He went out of his way to sneak into a private viewing to which he wasn't invited.    ;D

columbusdude82

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Re: In Theatres April 18, 2008: EXPELLED: No Intelligence Allowed
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2008, 08:50:08 AM »
He did not sneak in. He and PZ Myers registered to go see it. PZ was "expelled" but Dawkins was strangely allowed in. He offers his account, as well as his review of the movie, on his website.

If you are intellectually honest, I urge you to read this: http://richarddawkins.net/article,2394,Lying-for-Jesus,Richard-Dawkins

But if you want to be intellectually dishonest about it, that's no surprise. You'd fit in just well with the creationists.

loco

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Re: In Theatres April 18, 2008: EXPELLED: No Intelligence Allowed
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2008, 08:56:10 AM »
He did not sneak in. He and PZ Myers registered to go see it. PZ was "expelled" but Dawkins was strangely allowed in. He offers his account, as well as his review of the movie, on his website.

If you are intellectually honest, I urge you to read this: http://richarddawkins.net/article,2394,Lying-for-Jesus,Richard-Dawkins

But if you want to be intellectually dishonest about it, that's no surprise. You'd fit in just well with the creationists.

Are you angry, columbusdude82?  Hey, I did not make the film.  I'm just gonna go see it.  Dawkins went to see it.  You should go too.

Intellectually honest?  The title alone "Lying for Jesus" is intellectually dishonest.  There are Hindu, Jewish and Muslim creatinists too.  Do they lie for Jesus too?   ::)

columbusdude82

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Re: In Theatres April 18, 2008: EXPELLED: No Intelligence Allowed
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2008, 09:01:52 AM »
Are you angry, columbusdude82?  Hey, I did not make the film.  I'm just gonna go see it.  Dawkins went to see it.  You should go too.

Intellectually honest?  The title alone "Lying for Jesus" is intellectually dishonest.  There are Hindu, Jewish and Muslim creatinists too.  Do they lie for Jesus too?   ::)

No I'm not angry. I'm actually waiting for this film to bomb in the box office :) By all accounts it is very badly produced.

As for the "Lying for Jesus" issue, you know exactly what I mean. Like I said, quit being so coy, loco. Admit that you lie for Jesus and that you're damn proud of it 8)

loco

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Re: In Theatres April 18, 2008: EXPELLED: No Intelligence Allowed
« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2008, 09:07:48 AM »
No I'm not angry. I'm actually waiting for this film to bomb in the box office :) By all accounts it is very badly produced.

As for the "Lying for Jesus" issue, you know exactly what I mean. Like I said, quit being so coy, loco. Admit that you lie for Jesus and that you're damn proud of it 8)

I lied for Jesus?   ???

loco

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Re: In Theatres April 18, 2008: EXPELLED: No Intelligence Allowed
« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2008, 04:46:06 PM »
No I'm not angry. I'm actually waiting for this film to bomb in the box office :) By all accounts it is very badly produced.

As for the "Lying for Jesus" issue, you know exactly what I mean. Like I said, quit being so coy, loco. Admit that you lie for Jesus and that you're damn proud of it 8)

Well, columbusdude82?  You said that I lied for Jesus.  Back that up.

columbusdude82

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Re: In Theatres April 18, 2008: EXPELLED: No Intelligence Allowed
« Reply #16 on: April 20, 2008, 04:51:15 PM »
Well, columbusdude82?  You said that I lied for Jesus.  Back that up.

Do you deny that you spread and traffic in creationist lies? If so, then yes, you do lie for Jesus.

That whole movie (its premise, its content, the way scientists were tricked into being interviewed for it) is an example of lying for Jesus as well.

loco

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Re: In Theatres April 18, 2008: EXPELLED: No Intelligence Allowed
« Reply #17 on: April 20, 2008, 05:56:21 PM »
Do you deny that you spread and traffic in creationist lies? If so, then yes, you do lie for Jesus.

That whole movie (its premise, its content, the way scientists were tricked into being interviewed for it) is an example of lying for Jesus as well.

I believe that God created the universe and all living things, yes, but that is not a lie.   

As for the "whole movie (its premise, its content, the way scientists were tricked into being interviewed for it) is an example of lying for Jesus as well."  That's according to who?  You?  Why should I listen to you?  You have not even seen it.

Again, you said that I "lied for Jesus".  Please substantiate your claim.

columbusdude82

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Re: In Theatres April 18, 2008: EXPELLED: No Intelligence Allowed
« Reply #18 on: April 20, 2008, 06:12:02 PM »
I believe that God created the universe and all living things, yes, but that is not a lie.   

Please substantiate your claim 8)

Quote
As for the "whole movie (its premise, its content, the way scientists were tricked into being interviewed for it) is an example of lying for Jesus as well."  That's according to who?  You?  Why should I listen to you?  You have not even seen it.

Unlike Ben Stein and the creationist movement he fronts, these scientists are highly reputable and credible people, and we have every reason to believe they were tricked into giving the film-makers those interviews.

Quote
Again, you said that I "lied for Jesus".  Please substantiate your claim.

Oh jeeezz.. where does one begin? Let's look at your first post. You do not use any quotation marks, so I take it those are either your words, or you endorse them. The claim that these people were fired because of their belief in a creator or in intelligent design is a lie. As "exposed" on the website [ur]www.expelledexposed.com[/url], these people were fired for incompetence in scientific research, or not fired at all.

Moreover, every time you copy/paste material from websites like AnswersinGenesis, you are lying for Jesus. Every time you post false information claiming the earth is less than 10000 years old, you are lying for Jesus. Every time you attack evolutionary biology, a subject which you apparently do not understand and at any rate are not qualified to criticize, posting false information from some creationist site, you are in effect, lying for Jesus.

I rest my case.


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Re: In Theatres April 18, 2008: EXPELLED: No Intelligence Allowed
« Reply #19 on: April 20, 2008, 11:47:18 PM »
Are you angry, columbusdude82?  Hey, I did not make the film.  I'm just gonna go see it.  Dawkins went to see it.  You should go too.

Intellectually honest?  The title alone "Lying for Jesus" is intellectually dishonest.  There are Hindu, Jewish and Muslim creatinists too.  Do they lie for Jesus too?   ::)

Yes and after they have dismantled science they'll start arguing about why their "theories" are superior.

loco

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Re: In Theatres April 18, 2008: EXPELLED: No Intelligence Allowed
« Reply #20 on: April 21, 2008, 02:39:04 AM »
Please substantiate your claim 8)

What?  You don't believe that I believe this?  Creationists and Intelligent Design advocates honestly believe in their theories and hypothesis.  That's not lying.

Unlike Ben Stein and the creationist movement he fronts, these scientists are highly reputable and credible people, and we have every reason to believe they were tricked into giving the film-makers those interviews.

To lie, for Jesus or for anybody is a sin and I do not condone it.  But how do I know these scientists are not just mad because they know they hung themselves with their own words?  What are they so mad about anyway?  Did they say something to Ben Stein that they would not have said to somebody else?  Did Ben Stein ask them questions that others have never asked them before?  I don't get it.

Oh jeeezz.. where does one begin? Let's look at your first post. You do not use any quotation marks, so I take it those are either your words, or you endorse them. The claim that these people were fired because of their belief in a creator or in intelligent design is a lie. As "exposed" on the website [ur]www.expelledexposed.com[/url], these people were fired for incompetence in scientific research, or not fired at all.

Moreover, every time you copy/paste material from websites like AnswersinGenesis, you are lying for Jesus. Every time you post false information claiming the earth is less than 10000 years old, you are lying for Jesus. Every time you attack evolutionary biology, a subject which you apparently do not understand and at any rate are not qualified to criticize, posting false information from some creationist site, you are in effect, lying for Jesus.

I rest my case.

Dang, columbusdude82, what has gotten into you?  Why do you even bring up AnswersInGenesis into this?  They had nothing to do with this film. 

So you really expect me to stop posting anything that questions Darwinism out of fear to called "ignorant, stupid, insane or wicked", or out of fear to be accused of  "Lying for Jesus" by you?  Forget it.  This is exactly the type of intimidation, bullying and persecution that the film is attempting to bring out to the light. 

"It is absolutely safe to say that if you meet somebody who claims not to believe in evolution, that person is ignorant, stupid, or insane (or wicked, but I’d rather not consider that)" - Richard Dawkins

I rest my case.

columbusdude82

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Re: In Theatres April 18, 2008: EXPELLED: No Intelligence Allowed
« Reply #21 on: April 21, 2008, 04:50:41 AM »
"It is absolutely safe to say that if you meet somebody who claims not to believe in evolution, that person is ignorant, stupid, or insane (or wicked, but I’d rather not consider that)" - Richard Dawkins

This is absolutely correct.

"This is exactly the type of intimidation, bullying and persecution that the film is attempting to bring out to the light."

You can scream persecution if you insist, but given that creationism in all its forms has no scientific basis whatsoever, and given that all the creationists' supposed "questions about Darwinism" have been disproven by science, this alleged "persecution" is no more than the "persecution" suffered by flat-earth geologists who try to teach their "science" in the geology classroom, or the "persecution" that astrologers suffer when they try to teach their "science" in the astronomy classroom.

Until creationists can produce real scientific research to back up their claims, and submit it to real scientific scrutiny in real peer-reviewed journals edited by real scientists, they have no claim to "persecution."

Instead, what creationists want is for their stupid ideas to bypass the review process and enter the classroom and textbooks directly. And when that doesn't happen, they get all whiny... Kinda like you sometimes, when I debunk some of the creationist lies you post on here.

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Re: In Theatres April 18, 2008: EXPELLED: No Intelligence Allowed
« Reply #22 on: April 21, 2008, 05:26:11 AM »
"It is absolutely safe to say that if you meet somebody who claims not to believe in evolution, that person is ignorant, stupid, or insane (or wicked, but I’d rather not consider that)" - Richard Dawkins

This is absolutely correct.

"This is exactly the type of intimidation, bullying and persecution that the film is attempting to bring out to the light."

You can scream persecution if you insist, but given that creationism in all its forms has no scientific basis whatsoever, and given that all the creationists' supposed "questions about Darwinism" have been disproven by science, this alleged "persecution" is no more than the "persecution" suffered by flat-earth geologists who try to teach their "science" in the geology classroom, or the "persecution" that astrologers suffer when they try to teach their "science" in the astronomy classroom.

Until creationists can produce real scientific research to back up their claims, and submit it to real scientific scrutiny in real peer-reviewed journals edited by real scientists, they have no claim to "persecution."

Instead, what creationists want is for their stupid ideas to bypass the review process and enter the classroom and textbooks directly. And when that doesn't happen, they get all whiny... Kinda like you sometimes, when I debunk some of the creationist lies you post on here.

You are telling me what to post and what not to post.  If I post anything that questions Darwinism, you say that I'm "Lying for Jesus."  You want to suppress anything that questions Darwinism or anything that even hints at the possibility that there might be intelligence behind life and the universe.

If people are being fired from their jobs, being denied tenure, denied employment, only because they question Darwinism, or even if they don't, but if they entertain the idea of an intelligence behind the universe, that is persecution.

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Re: In Theatres April 18, 2008: EXPELLED: No Intelligence Allowed
« Reply #23 on: April 21, 2008, 05:36:08 AM »
No I'm not angry. I'm actually waiting for this film to bomb in the box office :) By all accounts it is very badly produced.

You are waiting for this film to bomb in the box office?

columbusdude82, I am sorry to disappoint you, but this film has made it to the top 10 in the US box office.  It is number 9 actually, ahead of Leatherheads.  It has made $3,153,000 already.  It also received good reviews from movie goers. 

I guess people like "very badly produced" films.

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/daily/chart/

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Re: In Theatres April 18, 2008: EXPELLED: No Intelligence Allowed
« Reply #24 on: April 21, 2008, 05:50:25 AM »
You are telling me what to post and what not to post. 

Another lie for Jesus. It seems Christians love to make themselves feel persecuted ::) You can post whatever you like. I'm just telling you, when you post lies I will call you out.

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If I post anything that questions Darwinism, you say that I'm "Lying for Jesus."  You want to suppress anything that questions Darwinism or anything that even hints at the possibility that there might be intelligence behind life and the universe.

False. In fact, I just learned there is going to be a conference in Germany organized by the biologist Massimo Pigliucci, for lots of people who question Darwinism, in part or in whole. All of them will be real scientists, not the rag-tag creationist attack dogs, and none of them will be fired for expressing their views, because they are doing real science. Real science is FULL of real scientists who question Darwinism, or some of its premises, or conclusions, or metholodology... but you'd know that if you had bothered to learn any science ::)

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If people are being fired from their jobs, being denied tenure, denied employment, only because they question Darwinism, or even if they don't, but if they entertain the idea of an intelligence behind the universe, that is persecution.

Please provide a list of people fired from their jobs, denied tenure, etc because they question Darwin or are for ID. If you mention people from the movie, I would urge you to first check them out on www.expelledexposed.com.

As for the film's bombing or not, it is no surprise it grossed a lot so early given the size of the media campaign behind it. It is being advertised 5 times an hour on Fox News alone.

BTW, please tell me where you first heard of this film.