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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: blacken700 on November 18, 2013, 01:53:39 PM
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Walmart in northeast Ohio is holding a holiday canned food drive — for its own underpaid employees. “Please Donate Food Items Here, so Associates in Need Can Enjoy Thanksgiving Dinner,” a sign reads in the employee lounge of a Canton-area Walmart.
Kory Lundberg, a Walmart spokesman, says the drive is a positive thing. “This is part of the company’s culture to rally around associates and take care of them when they face extreme hardships,” he said. Indeed, Lundberg is correct that it’s commendable to make an effort to help out those who are in need, especially during the holidays.
But the need for a food drive illustrates how difficult it is for Walmart workers to get by on its notoriously low pay. The company has long been plagued by charges that it doesn’t pay its employees a real living wage. In fact, Walmart’s President and CEO, Bill Simon, recently estimated that the majority of its one million associates make less than $25,000 per year, just above the federal poverty line of $23,550 for a family of four. When the Washington DC city council passed a living wage bill requiring Walmart to pay workers a minimum of $12.50 per hour, the chain threatened to shut down its new stores if Mayor Vincent Gray didn’t veto the bill. Gray vetoed the bill.
Walmart’s low wages come at a public cost. Because low-income workers still need housing and health care, taxpayers end up doling out millions in benefits to bridge the gap faced by many of the store’s retail workers. They have also led to strikes at Walmart stores from Seattle to Chicago to Los Angeles in recent weeks.
Read more: http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/11/18/2960371/walmart-food-drive/
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Should of formed a union. Sounds like they got the "right to work" for barley enough to live on. Thanks suckers! :D
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wage slavery is the curse of our times...
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wage slavery is the curse of our times...
lol
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Two years ago Walmart opened a "neighborhood store" in West Linn. Unlike their big box stores, this store only carried groceries and has a pharmacy.
Anyway, when they were interviewing for sales associates/clerks, HR also hooked up people with DHS to help fill the gap. It is not just that Walmart employees make low wages, they seldom get enough hours to qualify for benefits. These are the people who either go without medical insurance or get on Cover Oregon, the Medicaid plan here in Oregon. So yes, taxpayers supplement some Walmart employee's low wage and no benefits jobs while Walmart stockholders get richer by the day. Follow the money or in some cases the lack of it.
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Two years ago Walmart opened a "neighborhood store" in West Linn. Unlike their big box stores, this store only carried groceries and has a pharmacy.
Anyway, when they were interviewing for sales associates/clerks, HR also hooked up people with DHS to help fill the gap. It is not just that Walmart employees make low wages, they seldom get enough hours to qualify for benefits. These are the people who either go without medical insurance or get on Cover Oregon, the Medicaid plan here in Oregon. So yes, taxpayers supplement some Walmart employee's low wage and no benefits jobs while Walmart stockholders get richer by the day. Follow the money or in some cases the lack of it.
then guess what prime, those workers need to find better jobs...
if they cant they need to obtain skills, education and experience to inable them to do so. Employees get paid what they are worth on the market. If you have few skills, little education and little experience in anything other than menial tasks why do you think you deserve money that those people who do get?
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then guess what prime, those workers need to find better jobs...
if they cant they need to obtain skills, education and experience to inable them to do so. Employees get paid what they are worth on the market. If you have few skills, little education and little experience in anything other than menial tasks why do you think you deserve money that those people who do get?
just as long as you don't mind subsidizing the rest of the money they need to live on than there is no problem
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just as long as you don't mind subsidizing the rest of the money they need to live on than there is no problem
you mean those single mothers under 30 with multiple kids who have never been married and who have at most a high school education?
yes I know it some how my responsibility to pay for their shitty decisions
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It's their fault they're easily replaceable, low value employees. No one owes them anything.
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you mean those single mothers under 30 with multiple kids who have never been married and who have at most a high school education?
yes I know it some how my responsibility to pay for their shitty decisions
White privilege, write blacken his monthly check you oppressor! >:(
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you 2 are so fucking dumb you don't realize you pay the rest of their wage while walmart made 17 billion in profit last year
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you 2 are so fucking dumb you don't realize you pay the rest of their wage while walmart made 17 billion in profit last year
so youre arguing that we have child limits on welfare recipients?
and for limiting the amount of money they can spend on frivolous spending like smart phone plans, booze, shoes and name brand clothing?
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so youre arguing that we have child limits on welfare recipients?
and for limiting the amount of money they can spend on frivolous spending like smart phone plans, booze, shoes and name brand clothing?
no what i'm saying is walmart can pay a decent wage so I don't have to cover the rest
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no what i'm saying is walmart can pay a decent wage so I don't have to cover the rest
Does any of the blame lay with the employees (that they're on public assistance) or only with Walmart?
How many jobs have you created? Lots of people are on welfare because you haven't given them a job. I blame you, the Waltons have supported thousands of people, and saved people millions of dollars unlike most people.
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Does any of the blame lay with the employees (that they're on public assistance) or only with Walmart?
How many jobs have you created? Lots of people are on welfare because you haven't given them a job. I'll blame you.
can't live on 10 dollars an hour don't care how thifty you are
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can't live on 10 dollars an hour don't care how thifty you are
so its not their responsibility to obtain skills, education and experience to get paying positions?
actually as a single person you certainly can live on $25K a year which the majority of walmart employees make at least
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so its not their responsibility to obtain skills, education and experience to get paying positions?
actually as a single person you certainly can live on $25K a year which the majority of walmart employees make at least
wrong they average is 20,000 a year
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Ah, so the libtards believe that because it is a billion dollar company that it should just pay more in wages.
How much more should they pay and what is it based on?
$10 an hour? Why not $1000 an hour? Is that enough? Perhaps not. Walmart is rich. Just come up with any arbitrary number. It doesn't matter because Walmart can afford it. Right?
See, in a libtard's world no one is allowed to be wealthy. They think everyone should earn the same. No one is expected to get the education necessary or experience in order to move up economically. Those that do are expected to surrender what they worked for to everyone else. You only exist for the state.
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wrong they average is 20,000 a year
Why did you not answer the question?
so its not their responsibility to obtain skills, education and experience to get paying positions?
please cite your source, all the sources I see is that the majority of FULL TIME workers make 25K or more
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Ah, so the libtards believe that because it is a billion dollar company that it should just pay more in wages.
How much more should they pay and what is it based on?
$10 an hour? Why not $1000 an hour? Is that enough? Perhaps not. Walmart is rich. Just come up with any arbitrary number. It doesn't matter because Walmart can afford it. Right?
See, in a libtard's world no one is allowed to be wealthy. They think everyone should earn the same. No one is expected to get the education necessary or experience in order to move up economically. Those that do are expected to surrender what they worked for with everyone else. You only exist for the state.
stick to the bible that's more your speed jesus boy.you do realize your paying the rest of their wage ,while walmart makes 30 billion a year
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Why did you not answer the question?
so its not their responsibility to obtain skills, education and experience to get paying positions?
please cite your source, all the sources I see is that the majority of FULL TIME workers make 25K or more
businessinsider, not everyone can be a doctor or a ceo ,some one has to do these jobs
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stick to the bible that's more your speed jesus boy.you do realize your paying the rest of their wage ,while walmart makes 30 billion a year
are you ok with ppl taking your money and making frivolous purchases? or what about ppl taking your money to support their 3 kids they had while on welfare?
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businessinsider, not everyone can be a doctor or a ceo ,some one has to do these jobs
how about posting a link, again all the sources I see say the majority of FULL TIME workers get paid at least $25K
I agree, the world needs ditch diggers no doubt. If you can understand that why can you not understand that those people shouldnt have multiple kids or make frivilous purchases they cant afford?
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are you ok with ppl taking your money and making frivolous purchases? or what about ppl taking your money to support their 3 kids they had while on welfare?
so your saying all walmart empoyees are making frivolous purchases.post your source
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so your saying all walmart empoyees are making frivolous purchases.post your source
not all but the majority of welfare recipients are single mothers under 30 with 2+ kids who have never been married and who have at most a high school diploma.
so lets focus on that for the moment, are you ok with these recipients continuing to have children if they need assitance?
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and Im guessing Im not going to see a link from you stating that the majority of FULL TIME workers make less than $25K?
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not all but the majority of welfare recipients are single mothers under 30 with 2+ kids who have never been married and who have at most a high school diploma.
so lets focus on that for the moment, are you ok with these recipients continuing to have children if they need assitance?
no, lets stick to this topic which is about walmart,if you want to talk about welfare moms start you own topic
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no, lets stick to this topic which is about walmart,if you want to talk about welfare moms start you own topic
hahah the issue at hand is walmart supposedly not paying enough and us having to foot the bill for the rest of the cost.
WELLL part of the reason we have to foot the bill is b/c many of these people have made HORRIBLE life decisions and continue to do so.
youre the one who brought up the tax payer having to pay the difference, not me so lets keep on that same topic ok champ?
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hahah the issue at hand is walmart supposedly not paying enough and us having to foot the bill for the rest of the cost.
WELLL part of the reason we have to foot the bill is b/c many of these people have made HORRIBLE life decisions and continue to do so.
youre the one who brought up the tax payer having to pay the difference, not me so lets keep on that same topic ok champ?
really,are you just playing dumb or are you really this dumb,not everyone that works at walmart has made HORRIBLE life decisions,like I said before not everyone can be a doc or ceo or even in the technical field. for some people this is the only job they're able to do, so what's wrong with paying them a wage they can live on.
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Walmart in northeast Ohio is holding a holiday canned food drive — for its own underpaid employees. “Please Donate Food Items Here, so Associates in Need Can Enjoy Thanksgiving Dinner,” a sign reads in the employee lounge of a Canton-area Walmart.
Kory Lundberg, a Walmart spokesman, says the drive is a positive thing. “This is part of the company’s culture to rally around associates and take care of them when they face extreme hardships,” he said. Indeed, Lundberg is correct that it’s commendable to make an effort to help out those who are in need, especially during the holidays.
But the need for a food drive illustrates how difficult it is for Walmart workers to get by on its notoriously low pay. The company has long been plagued by charges that it doesn’t pay its employees a real living wage. In fact, Walmart’s President and CEO, Bill Simon, recently estimated that the majority of its one million associates make less than $25,000 per year, just above the federal poverty line of $23,550 for a family of four. When the Washington DC city council passed a living wage bill requiring Walmart to pay workers a minimum of $12.50 per hour, the chain threatened to shut down its new stores if Mayor Vincent Gray didn’t veto the bill. Gray vetoed the bill.
Walmart’s low wages come at a public cost. Because low-income workers still need housing and health care, taxpayers end up doling out millions in benefits to bridge the gap faced by many of the store’s retail workers. They have also led to strikes at Walmart stores from Seattle to Chicago to Los Angeles in recent weeks.
Read more: http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/11/18/2960371/walmart-food-drive/
When a liberal on cut and pastes and article, I've learned to look at the link that it came from first. Since "Think Progress" is about as reliable as Obama and MSNBC I will ignore it. BTW, how is that progressive thing working? Thought so!
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really,are you just playing dumb or are you really this dumb,not everyone that works at walmart has made HORRIBLE life decisions,like I said before not everyone can be a doc or ceo or even in the technical field. for some people this is the only job they're able to do, so what's wrong with paying them a wage they can live on.
Allow me to answer. He is THAT dumb. Along with the rest of his tea bag crew.
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here's another link for coach
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=6&cad=rja&ved=0CE8QFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cleveland.com%2Fbusiness%2Findex.ssf%2F2013%2F11%2Fis_walmarts_request_of_associa.html&ei=1IaNUq-rDvaz4AOFt4HIAg&usg=AFQjCNE3y35YHJ9yo42h1IuncXrxmzJwlw&bvm=bv.56988011,d.dmg
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here's another link for coach
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=6&cad=rja&ved=0CE8QFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cleveland.com%2Fbusiness%2Findex.ssf%2F2013%2F11%2Fis_walmarts_request_of_associa.html&ei=1IaNUq-rDvaz4AOFt4HIAg&usg=AFQjCNE3y35YHJ9yo42h1IuncXrxmzJwlw&bvm=bv.56988011,d.dmg
Doesn't matter. You don't get how business and profit margins work. It's like when you from the left accuse the oil companies of huge profits when the profit margins are like 2%.
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then guess what prime, those workers need to find better jobs...
if they cant they need to obtain skills, education and experience to inable them to do so. Employees get paid what they are worth on the market. If you have few skills, little education and little experience in anything other than menial tasks why do you think you deserve money that those people who do get?
I completely agree with you. People should do the right thing, get an education, get a decent paying job with benefits and then get married and have children only when they can afford them. Unfortunately, this is not the real world. The real world is the one we live in where a small portion of the population has the bulk of the resources, while the bulk of the population, for a variety of reasons, lives near or in poverty. The proof of this is that employers, like Walmart have no trouble finding employees who will work for minimum wage or less, part-time irregular hours and without benefits. I mention irregular hours which are common in the retail business because this makes working a second job much more difficult.
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so youre arguing that we have child limits on welfare recipients?
and for limiting the amount of money they can spend on frivolous spending like smart phone plans, booze, shoes and name brand clothing?
-Yet another brilliant idea (and I am being serious here). Let's do sterilize welfare women who exceed childbearing limits. Better yet, since so few welfare people ever get off welfare, how about we sterilize them before they ever have that first child which will probably grow up and go on public assistance too. Statistics bear this out.
Limiting how people spend their meager incomes and the money they get when on welfare is genius. In fact, with the recent reduction in the Federal food stamp allowance, this has already begun.
I do have some questions of you. How do you propose to make these changes? Government can pass laws to do the things you suggest, of course. Just who is going to enforce them and how will they do this?
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and Im guessing Im not going to see a link from you stating that the majority of FULL TIME workers make less than $25K?
There are a couple of things about your statement which should be explored. One is that for 2013, the Federal poverty guideline is an annual income of $23,550 for a family of four. Only 47% of Americans have a full-time job. The U.S. poverty rate was at 15 percent in 2012, as roughly 46.5 million people were stuck living at or below the poverty line. There has essentially been no change for 2013.
http://www.familiesusa.org/resources/tools-for-advocates/guides/federal-poverty-guidelines.html
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/07/05/only-47-americans-have-full-time-job
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/17/poverty-america-census_n_3940812.html
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no what i'm saying is walmart can pay a decent wage so I don't have to cover the rest
It's not Walmart's job to pay them more than what they're worth.
My company pays me what I'm worth to them. If I want 500k a year I either;
1. Offer them skills and value worth that money, or,
2. I go elsewhere.
They can skill up and go elsewhere
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It's not Walmart's job to pay them more than what they're worth.
My company pays me what I'm worth to them. If I want 500k a year I either;
1. Offer them skills and value worth that money, or,
2. I go elsewhere.
They can skill up and go elsewhere
If Walmart employees are paid what they are worth and they earn less then their counterparts in other big box operations, what does this say about the caliber of Walmart employees? I guess people who shop there don't give a rip about customer service. All they want are those cheap prices on foreign made inferior goods and products.
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If Walmart employees are paid what they are worth and they earn less then their counterparts in other big box operations, what does this say about the caliber of Walmart employees? I guess people who shop there don't give a rip about customer service. All they want are those cheap prices on foreign made inferior goods and products.
If other "big box operations" pay more, guess what, Walmart is not preventing their employees from quitting and getting a job with those other "big box operations".
And if people want to buy foreign made inferior goods and products at cheap prices that is their choice. GOOD FOR THEM. That is what the market is based on. CHOICE.
Government, libtards, democrats and RINOS should not be imposing wage increases on any industry. They come up with all these arbitray numbers. Based on what? Let the market decide what the wages should be and let employees decide where they want to work.
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Walmart’s low wages come at a public cost. Because low-income workers still need housing and health care, taxpayers end up doling out millions in benefits to bridge the gap faced by many of the store’s retail workers.
That's the part I have a problem with. That, and the whole Debbie Shanks thing.
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If Walmart employees are paid what they are worth and they earn less then their counterparts in other big box operations, what does this say about the caliber of Walmart employees? I guess people who shop there don't give a rip about customer service. All they want are those cheap prices on foreign made inferior goods and products.
Inferior?
You have no proof it's inferior and if it really were inferior, the people will go elsewhere.
Let the market decide, not you.
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Walmart’s low wages come at a public cost. Because low-income workers still need housing and health care, taxpayers end up doling out millions in benefits to bridge the gap faced by many of the store’s retail workers.
That's the part I have a problem with. That, and the whole Debbie Shanks thing.
exactly,been trying to get that through these FOX AND FRIENDS educated morons for the last two pages,but what do you expect,FOX NEWS SMART
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What is the solution? Force a private company to pay higher wages?
That will just hurt all consumers, including the ones getting higher wages, because the company will just pass the increased costs of doing business on to consumers, and reduce the size of their workforce.
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What is the solution? Force a private company to pay higher wages?
That will just hurt all consumers, including the ones getting higher wages, because the company will just pass the increased costs of doing business on to consumers, and reduce the size of their workforce.
no ,the Walton family should be ashamed that their employees have to be on food stamps to make it
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no ,the Walton family should be ashamed that their employees have to be on food stamps to make it
What is the solution?
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What is the solution?
maybe instead of making 20 billion,maybe they can make 15 billion and share the wealth
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maybe instead of making 20 billion,maybe they can make 15 billion and share the wealth
Does this happen? The federal government passes a law forcing Walmart to reduce its profit margin and give that money to employees?
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Inferior?
You have no proof it's inferior and if it really were inferior, the people will go elsewhere.
Let the market decide, not you.
It's my opinion that their products are inferior. Although I don't shop the big box Walmart stores, I have toured the local neighborhood market, which opened in West Linn a short while back and found nothing that I wanted to buy. In addition their pricing wasn't cheaper on several products I compared to those at the Safeway and Albertsons also located in West Linn. All their meat is frozen. There is no butcher or fresh products in the store.
Apparently, I am not alone in thinking this Walmart store is no bargain because the parking lot has the least amount of cars of any of the grocery stores in West Linn. Even the high end specialty store, Market of Choice has more traffic.
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maybe instead of making 20 billion,maybe they can make 15 billion and share the wealth
How about making 80 billion and not sharing any?
Why share THEIR wealth?
Every one should be able to enjoy the fruits of their labor and should only give back IF THEY WANT since it's their money NOT ANYONE ELSE'S.
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How about making 80 billion and not sharing any?
Why share THEIR wealth?
Every one should be able to enjoy the fruits of their labor and should only give back IF THEY WANT since it's their money NOT ANYONE ELSE'S.
Can I gather from this that you are a shareholder in Walmart or a member of the Walton family?
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Can I gather from this that you are a shareholder in Walmart or a member of the Walton family?
He might just be a FAIR human being.
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He might just be a FAIR human being.
Define fair.
I did not invent the criticism of Walmart. Walmart is hated by many for many different reasons. In small towns across America, Walmart big box stores have moved in and closed down hoards of main street U.S.A. mom and pop stores. All over Oregon, cities have refused to grant Walmart building permits. The only reason there is a Walmart Store in West Linn, where I live and in lake Oswego a neighboring town is because they downsized their operation to a "neighborhood market" and moved into existing vacated grocery stores. Sadly for Walmart investors, these two neighbor markets don't appear to be very successful. But then, West Linn and Lake Oswego are wealthy neighborhoods and we wealthy folks don't like to be seen hobnobbing with Walmart shoppers....this is a joke, BTW.
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and we wealthy folks don't like to be seen hobnobbing with Walmart shoppers....this is a joke, BTW.
lol
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WMT and most other grocery stores demonize unions like crazy. I worked at probably ten different stores as I moved around during high school and college. And every damn one of them papered the break room with "Why you don't need unions" and managers were very good at telling us how unions hold us back.
While I'm very much against the corrupt nature of unions... I think when it's walmart against SomePoorSchmoe, the house always wins.
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Can I gather from this that you are a shareholder in Walmart or a member of the Walton family?
I'm neither and agree with Dario. Are they not entitled to the fruits of their labour? They don't have to give anyone anything nor do you have any right in asking UNLESS you bring more value to the business. This idea of handouts and money for nothing sound very strange coming from an American forum. If you want to be a socialist state, vote for it then.
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If you want to be a socialist state, vote for it then.
It's coming... :-[
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It's coming... :-[
so are you a regular shopper at dullfart?
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these same morons on here complain about welfare and handouts,and in the same breath stick up for walmart paying these wages that a person can't live on,so these workers have to subsidize their income with tax payers money,while the waltons are making 20 billion a year. FOX NEWS SMART
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just as long as you don't mind subsidizing the rest of the money they need to live on than there is no problem
right.
it would be easier to make a class system and those poor folk can live in housing compounds right next to walmart. then wages dont have to go up-they keep housing, meals and they can be life time workers for the corporation. ;)
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these same morons on here complain about welfare and handouts,and in the same breath stick up for walmart paying these wages that a person can't live on,so these workers have to subsidize their income with tax payers money,while the waltons are making 20 billion a year. FOX NEWS SMART
You are the biggest moron on this board.
Pay attention just this once because this is the last time I am going to address your stupidity on this board.
Conservatives stand for people providing for themselves. Not depending on the government. These people DON'T HAVE to work at walmart and continue earning low wages. They can either go to another company that is willing to pay more for their skills or they can improve their skills by going to school. It doesn't even have to be a university with all the specialized schools around. Even in this decrepit economy there are some industries that chug along inspite of the stupid liberals.
There is no discrepancy in what we are saying. People shouldn't be on welfare when they can lift themselves up and improve their stock themselves. People need to stop depending on others and stop expecting others to support them. That is the stupid entitlement, welfare state that libtards promote which has been the biggest obstacle to these people and the economy prospering.
Is it Walmart's fault that these people can't live on what they pay them? Do you know who these people are? Do you know how they manage their finances?
It is not Walmart's fault, nor should it be their concern. It should only be of concern to the employee. If the employee can't live on what he earns let him/her take advantage of the opportunities available to get out of that situation or find another form of employment.
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these same morons on here complain about welfare and handouts,and in the same breath stick up for walmart paying these wages that a person can't live on,so these workers have to subsidize their income with tax payers money,while the waltons are making 20 billion a year. FOX NEWS SMART
You haven't explained how this would happen. Does the government pass a law forcing Walmart to limit it's profit margin and redirect that money to employees?
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You haven't explained how this would happen. Does the government pass a law forcing Walmart to limit it's profit margin and redirect that money to employees?
Probably what the dummy wants. Can't debate with someone brought up on the idea that you're owed something.
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You are the biggest moron on this board.
Pay attention just this once because this is the last time I am going to address your stupidity on this board.
Conservatives stand for people providing for themselves. Not depending on the government. These people DON'T HAVE to work at walmart and continue earning low wages. They can either go to another company that is willing to pay more for their skills or they can improve their skills by going to school. It doesn't even have to be a university with all the specialized schools around. Even in this decrepit economy there are some industries that chug along inspite of the stupid liberals.
There is no discrepancy in what we are saying. People shouldn't be on welfare when they can lift themselves up and improve their stock themselves. People need to stop depending on others and stop expecting others to support them. That is the stupid entitlement, welfare state that libtards promote which has been the biggest obstacle to these people and the economy prospering.
Is it Walmart's fault that these people can't live on what they pay them? Do you know who these people are? Do you know how they manage their finances?
It is not Walmart's fault, nor should it be their concern. It should only be of concern to the employee. If the employee can't live on what he earns let him/her take advantage of the opportunities available to get out of that situation or find another form of employment.
typ. christain hypocrite,love thy neighbor just as long as they stay away and don't bother me or need anything.it's not walmart's fault if you can't live on 10 dollars an hour :D :D :D I,m sure it,s the employees fault they can't manange their 10 an hour :D :D oh and I,m glad your not going to address any of my post any more because you are as dumb as a bag of rocks,just stick to your talking snakes and 800 year old boat builders,that's about you speed
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Actually idiot he did a good job. Being christian has nothing to do this at all. If people don't want to work there, then don't. Why is this my problem. The folks at Walmart are only responsible to the shareholders...period. Would u prefer to pay higher prices....fine go to Target or whatever. I don't like walmart and would prefer mom and pop stores but thats a preference and not subject to government intervention..u get this is still America right? Your prefered method of economic governance has proven to be a historic failure.
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Actually idiot he did a good job. Being christian has nothing to do this at all. If people don't want to work there, then don't. Why is this my problem. The folks at Walmart are only responsible to the shareholders...period. Would u prefer to pay higher prices....fine go to Target or whatever. I don't like walmart and would prefer mom and pop stores but thats a preference and not subject to government intervention..u get this is still America right? Your prefered method of economic governance has proven to be a historic failure.
the employees should all quit; all of them.
then watch walmart try and have a black friday without anyone working.
then when they rehire the wages should go up.
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these same morons on here complain about welfare and handouts,and in the same breath stick up for walmart paying these wages that a person can't live on,so these workers have to subsidize their income with tax payers money,while the waltons are making 20 billion a year. FOX NEWS SMART
Typical Obama Voter... lol
/thread
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I'm neither and agree with Dario. Are they not entitled to the fruits of their labour? They don't have to give anyone anything nor do you have any right in asking UNLESS you bring more value to the business. This idea of handouts and money for nothing sound very strange coming from an American forum. If you want to be a socialist state, vote for it then.
Employees are what make businesses like Walmart a success. The often meager wages they earn is not a handout, as you put it.
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Employees are what make businesses like Walmart a success. The often meager wages they earn is not a handout, as you put it.
No one is forcing them to agree to those terms though. If they're in a bad situation it's 100% their fault.
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I rarely even go into a WalMart parking lot. But when I do occasionally venture into one of the stores, I find the few employees I actually see to mostly be just killing time, and of little or no help at all in most cases. They seem to lack knowledge, initiative, and concern for the customer as a whole. Years ago I actually had one fat broad working behind the deli counter roll her eyes at me and sigh audibly when I asked her to slice my roast beef.
I actually worked in retail myself for a few years in HS and college, and that type of slacker can't expect to get anywhere. I was able to get raises and promotions due to working hard and having a good attitude, while those who didn't want to work hard, serve the customer, and have a good attitude were either stuck making the low wages or occasionally shown the door. I spent several years at a local store of one of the largest retail grocery chains, and was offered a slot in their management trainee program after college due to my drive and ambition. But I had other plans.
As for the wages, I'm all for anyone earning as much as they can. But no employer should be forced to pay ridiculous salaries to people (even at the executive level) who don't perform at a high level and don't do highly valuable or highly specialized work, or who don't otherwise contribute significantly to revenue.
An executive shouldn't be earning millions or more if the company's stock is not performing. And no unskilled worker should expect to start out at $50k a year for bagging groceries. If companies are forced to pay higher wages, they will lay some off, close some stores, and do other things to cut corners.
As for the rest of us subsidizing the lower wage earners, we're at a point where entitlements are out of control already. People need to learn that they can't live like rappers or pro athletes (who usually end up broke themselves anyway) working those lower paying jobs. Those who apply for such subsidies need to be trained on how to budget, prioritize, etc. on what they have. If they want to try to live anything like Jay Z, they first need a reality check, then they need to realize that they need skills, education, work ethic, develop their talents, network, etc. Almost anything is possible (or was) here in America, but you'll either have to work your way up several levels at Walmart to be a "baller", or else move on to bigger things.
Cut entitlements and teach responsible living rather than force companies to overpay employees. And don't force tax payers to pay for those peoples' cell phones, new cars, rims, steaks and shrimp, high dollar apartments and homes they can't afford, etc either.
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I rarely even go into a WalMart parking lot. But when I do occasionally venture into one of the stores, I find the few employees I actually see to mostly be just killing time, and of little or no help at all in most cases. They seem to lack knowledge, initiative, and concern for the customer as a whole. Years ago I actually had one fat broad working behind the deli counter roll her eyes at me and sigh audibly when I asked her to slice my roast beef.
I actually worked in retail myself for a few years in HS and college, and that type of slacker can't expect to get anywhere. I was able to get raises and promotions due to working hard and having a good attitude, while those who didn't want to work hard, serve the customer, and have a good attitude were either stuck making the low wages or occasionally shown the door. I spent several years at a local store of one of the largest retail grocery chains, and was offered a slot in their management trainee program after college due to my drive and ambition. But I had other plans.
As for the wages, I'm all for anyone earning as much as they can. But no employer should be forced to pay ridiculous salaries to people (even at the executive level) who don't perform at a high level and don't do highly valuable or highly specialized work, or who don't otherwise contribute significantly to revenue.
An executive shouldn't be earning millions or more if the company's stock is not performing. And no unskilled worker should expect to start out at $50k a year for bagging groceries. If companies are forced to pay higher wages, they will lay some off, close some stores, and do other things to cut corners.
As for the rest of us subsidizing the lower wage earners, we're at a point where entitlements are out of control already. People need to learn that they can't live like rappers or pro athletes (who usually end up broke themselves anyway) working those lower paying jobs. Those who apply for such subsidies need to be trained on how to budget, prioritize, etc. on what they have. If they want to try to live anything like Jay Z, they first need a reality check, then they need to realize that they need skills, education, work ethic, develop their talents, network, etc. Almost anything is possible (or was) here in America, but you'll either have to work your way up several levels at Walmart to be a "baller", or else move on to bigger things.
Cut entitlements and teach responsible living rather than force companies to overpay employees. And don't force tax payers to pay for those peoples' cell phones, new cars, rims, steaks and shrimp, high dollar apartments and homes they can't afford, etc either.
Since you worked in retail, I hope you will appreciate this comparison between someone working in retail where they have the opportunity to earn a decent living and someone working for minimum wage in a no account, no future job like many of those at companies like Walmart. As I mentioned in other posts, there is both a Walmart neighborhood market and a high end specialty grocery store almost equal distance from my home.
At Market of Choice, the prices are high and yet the parking lot is full all the time. The employees are friendly, helpful, knowledgeable and seem pretty happy. They make a decent living. Their schedules are set and adapted to their other needs, such as class schedules if they are in college as much as possible.
At the Walmart neighborhood market, the parking lot is often nearly empty. The customer service is seriously lacking. Basically all the visible employees are at the checkout. There seems to be no one to help you locate a product. When my wife shopped there shortly after the store opened, she when to check out, the clerk rung up her items. She presented her bank card and asked that the purchase be processed as a credit. The clerk didn't know how to do this and was somewhat indignant to my wife. -End result, my wife walked out of the store leaving her cart full of groceries at the check out and not paying for them.
A friend of ours daughter worked at Nordstrom's department store in men's wear while she was in college. Nordstrom's guaranteed a decent wage plus commissions on sales. Customer service was paramount and hopefully still is at Nordstrom's. Kari made more working there then a lot of college grads make at the beginning of their chosen careers. Nordstrom's is a very successful company.
Safeway is another store in our neighborhood. Customer service falls somewhere between Walmart and Market of Choice. Safeway employees are unionized. They make better wages then do folks at Walmart.
The bottom line is that when it comes to customer service, we get what we pay for. Starbucks pays their employees a competitive wage and offers benefits. It is rare to get poor customer service at Starbucks. The baristas are well trained and well paid.
Fred Meyer, an other big box store in the Pacific Northwest is competitive pricewise with Walmart. Fred Meyer employees are unionized. They make decent wages and have some benefits. Fred Meyer is a very successful company, which just goes to prove you don't have to have nearly slave labor and a low price point to succeed. Walmart, i.e. the Walton's and Walmart stockholders are greedy and they seem willing to go to any length to satisfy their greed. Walmart is not the American Dream unless you happen to believe in slavery.
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Employees are what make businesses like Walmart a success. The often meager wages they earn is not a handout, as you put it.
If you pay them more than they're worth, it'll be a hand out.
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How about making 80 billion and not sharing any?
Why share THEIR wealth?
Every one should be able to enjoy the fruits of their labor and should only give back IF THEY WANT since it's their money NOT ANYONE ELSE'S.
We all share the wealth to an extent because we all pay taxes. So the argument isn't about whether the wealth should be shared but of how much. After all, wealth sharing pays for cops, fire service, the roads you drive on etc. I presume people still want this stuff.
Not all "fruits of labor" are good. Not everyone should be able to enjoy the fruits of their labor. I know a gal who trots around in private jets 'cause her husband runs a boiler room. Most would object to this. I certainly do but they enjoy the fruits of their labor.
I don't know if Walmart is a predatory business or not. If it is, then they don't really deserve to enjoy the fruits of their labor whilst still practicing predatory policies.
I think it's a mistake to say all capitalism is good - that if someone is working for $x then that's because the market has decided so. That's rather naive. The idea that capitalism is perfect is nonsense. Any system taken to an extreme will break down.
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Conservatives stand for people providing for themselves. Not depending on the government.
But this is impossible.
The moment you hit a public road, you are depending on government.
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these same morons on here complain about welfare and handouts,and in the same breath stick up for walmart paying these wages that a person can't live on,so these workers have to subsidize their income with tax payers money,while the waltons are making 20 billion a year. FOX NEWS SMART
I really can't argue with this.
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If you pay them more than they're worth, it'll be a hand out.
Who decides what they are worth and how?
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Who decides what they are worth and how?
Thats the question, right? The executives make the rules so naturally they view themselves as worthy of higher wages.
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I refuse to shop at walmart, because I cant stand the walking human piles of excrement that make up their consumer base....
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businessinsider, not everyone can be a doctor or a ceo ,some one has to do these jobs
You guys are acting as if this company isn't one of the most hideous on earth. How can you justify paying someone who helps operate our company a less then living wage and rake in absurd amounts of money for yourself? The world's not fair but fuck man, human decency has to come into effect at some point.
It's int he best interest of the company since their emloyees will become consumers.
Also, experience, education don't gaurentee shit now a days, people at walmart probably have degrees.
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You guys are acting as if this company isn't one of the most hideous on earth. How can you justify paying someone who helps operate our company a less then living wage and rake in absurd amounts of money for yourself? The world's not fair but fuck man, human decency has to come into effect at some point.
It's int he best interest of the company since their emloyees will become consumers.
Also, experience, education don't gaurentee shit now a days, people at walmart probably have degrees.
THEN GO WORK SOMEWHERE ELSE!!!!
WALMART DOESNT OWE YOU OR ANYONE ELSE SHIT
If you dont have the skill, education, experience, will power to get another higher paying job, foresight to know you wont get more money DOING THE SAME FUCKING THING...what do you expect?
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THEN GO WORK SOMEWHERE ELSE!!!!
WALMART DOESNT OWE YOU OR ANYONE ELSE SHIT
If you dont have the skill, education, experience, will power to get another higher paying job, foresight to know you wont get more money DOING THE SAME FUCKING THING...what do you expect?
Wal-mart receives subsidies and tax breaks to utilize there business. It's like saying there's no jobs, your argument would be, work hard, get an education, you act as if everything is fair and comes down to personal effort, that is so far removed from reality it's not funny. YOu have PHD's out of work while Wal-mart pays an effective tax rate of zero raping the taxpayers who pay for the roads and infrastructure they utilize.
Life's not fair, natural selection is obsolete for humans, we have bypassed it.
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Wal-mart receives subsidies and tax breaks to utilize there business. It's like saying there's no jobs, your argument would be, work hard, get an education, you act as if everything is fair and comes down to personal effort, that is so far removed from reality it's not funny. YOu have PHD's out of work while Wal-mart pays an effective tax rate of zero raping the taxpayers who pay for the roads and infrastructure they utilize.
Life's not fair, natural selection is obsolete for humans, we have bypassed it.
if you want to argue corporate tax code thats something we can do along with corporate tax rate which is one of the highest in the world. I can actually agree with you on many of the issues you probably have in regards to corporate tax code and reform.
THATS NOT THE ISSUE HERE....
The more education you have the better your employability and the more money you will ultimately make...THATS A FACT
The less education you have the harder it is to get a job and make a good wage...THATS A FACT
you act as if these people are all just down on their luck and have not made decisions that put them in this place.
If there isnt any jobs in your area...FUCKING MOVE MORON!!!!
If you cant get a job b/c you dont have a GED...GET A FUCKING GED MORON, and then get a college education in something that is marketable.
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it's tricky...
Unions are pretty shady - they influence elections, they do some shady shit with the $, lots of accusations of bribing, etc - They take a lot of dues and do a lot of things most people would call shady. So on the macro, BAD.
On the other hand, for individuals, those that join unions do get higher wagers.
http://blogs.ajc.com/business-beat/2012/12/12/across-the-board-union-workers-get-higher-pay/
Micro, it's good.
Government workers: “These workers make a median of $973 a week, roughly $230 more than their non-union counterparts.”
Teachers: “The union members earn $224 a week more than non-union educators, with median weekly earnings at $1,038.”
Firefighters and police officers: “Union workers make about $1,008 a week, and non-union workers make $627.”
Factory workers: “Union workers make about $836 a week, $56 a week more than non-union employees.”
Construction workers: “Union workers earn about $361 more per week than their non-union counterparts.”
Transportation and warehousing workers: “Union employees earn about $215 more per week, or 30%, than non-union workers.”
Utilities workers: “Union employees in this industry tend to earn 10.2% more per week than non-union workers.”
So if you are a worker, then yes, you like them.
If you're not a worker, and you don't make X amount more because of them (OR, if you are negatively affected by their practices or the higher wages given), then you are definitely against them.
It's not a right/wrong... that all depends on WHO you are.
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But this is impossible.
The moment you hit a public road, you are depending on government.
Who pays for those roads? We pay for them, the same way we pay govt salaries. THEY work for us, and those who are elected (and their appointees) are dependent upon us. We need a much smaller, more efficient government that largely allows states to govern themselves. Not this fraudulent, wasteful, laughably corrupt govt that is growing more and more every day.
The feds need to stick to national defense and a few other things they do well and leave everything else alone. Pretty much everything else they touch turns into an inefficient, corrupt pile of shit.
Anything Big Govt can "give" they can also take away.
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If you pay them more than they're worth, it'll be a hand out.
So I gather you are an expert on what sales associates are worth at Walmart as compared to other companies. The average grocery clerk at Fred Meyer, a big box chain store operation much like Walmart, makes $22,000. Walmart sales associate positions pay $8.88 hourly. I could find no information for average annual salary. However, if the Fred Meyer grocery clerk wage exampled represents fulltime work the position pays $10. an hour. Walmart notoriously keeps much of their workforce at less then fulltime to avoid paying health and other benefits only afforded fulltime employees.
While most stores will hire an army of temporary workers to handle the holiday season rush, Walmart has been relying almost exclusively on temps year-round. A Reuters survey of 52 stores in June found that most were hiring only temps, who must re-apply for their jobs after 180 days. Meanwhile, existing long-time employees have seen their hours reduced drastically.
Walmart, as the nation’s largest private employer, exerts a powerful influence on other large companies. As Walmart slashed employees’ hours, jobs report after jobs report showed the biggest gains in a part-time, low-wage workforce.
Not only is the Walmart model bad for workers and business, it’s also terrible for the taxpayer. The company’s refusal to pay a living wage and benefits forces most of its employees onto public benefits like food stamps and Medicaid. Each store’s workforce consumes as much as $1.75 million in public benefits each year.
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/09/24/2669191/walmart-adds-fulltime-workers/
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Who pays for those roads? We pay for them, the same way we pay govt salaries. THEY work for us, and those who are elected (and their appointees) are dependent upon us. We need a much smaller, more efficient government that largely allows states to govern themselves. Not this fraudulent, wasteful, laughably corrupt govt that is growing more and more every day.
The feds need to stick to national defense and a few other things they do well and leave everything else alone. Pretty much everything else they touch turns into an inefficient, corrupt pile of shit.
Anything Big Govt can "give" they can also take away.
The FOX New's sheep have spoken.
It is quite amusing to read some of the posts on Getbig which are pretty much verbatim what FOX News reports all day and all night long.
Keith Rupert Murdoch is the owner of FOX News.
Keith Rupert Murdoch, AC, KSG (born 11 March 1931) is an Australian-born American business magnate. Murdoch became managing director of Australia's News Limited, inherited from his father, in 1952. He is the founder, Chairman and CEO of global media holding company News Corporation, the world's second-largest media conglomerate, and its successors News Corp and 21st Century Fox after the conglomerate split on 28 June 2013.
In July 2011 Murdoch faced allegations that his companies, including the News of the World, owned by News Corporation, had been regularly hacking the phones of celebrities, royalty and public citizens. He faces police and government investigations into bribery and corruption by the British government and FBI investigations in the US. On 21 July 2012, Murdoch resigned as a director of News International.
In the 2012 U.S. Presidential election, Murdoch has been critical of the competence of Mitt Romney's team but nonetheless has been strongly supportive of a Republican victory, tweeting: "Of course I want him [Romney] to win, save us from socialism, etc."
In 1996, Murdoch decided to enter the cable news market with the Fox News Channel, a 24-hour cable news station. Ratings studies released in 2009 showed that the network was responsible for nine of the top ten programs in the "Cable News" category at that time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rupert_Murdoch
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The FOX New's sheep have spoken.
It is quite amusing to read some of the posts on Getbig which are pretty much verbatim what FOX News reports all day and all night long.
Keith Rupert Murdoch is the owner of FOX News.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rupert_Murdoch
hes not wrong..... the gov exists to service the citizens... they take our money by force, and theyre supposed to use it to support its citizens. .. except that they dont, rhey see it that we owe them and work for them, which is bullshit and the citizens need to take control back and make tje gov remember that they exist for us, not vice versa.
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Who decides what they are worth and how?
Pure market value.
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The next thing the no business sense having libtard will be yelling about are paying their suppliers a certain amount so they can pay their workers more.
::) straight up idiots
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The next thing the no business sense having libtard will be yelling about are paying their suppliers a certain amount so they can pay their workers more.
::) straight up idiots
Some people just refuse to accept the concept that not every job is designed to pay a comfortable living wage.
Shitty employees with no skill = shitty jobs with low/no wage... there is always the poor fuckers with worthless degrees who wasted a hundred G's on a liberal arts degree working at McDonalds, or the guy with a PhD in something useful that can't find employment for some reason (usually because they refuse to relocate)... but those are not the norm, and usually could actually find a job if they were willing to do something somewhere else or if they would work for slightly less than they want.
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Some people just refuse to accept the concept that not every job is designed to pay a comfortable living wage.
Shitty employees with no skill = shitty jobs with low/no wage... there is always the poor fuckers with worthless degrees who wasted a hundred G's on a liberal arts degree working at McDonalds, or the guy with a PhD in something useful that can't find employment for some reason (usually because they refuse to relocate)... but those are not the norm, and usually could actually find a job if they were willing to do something somewhere else or if they would work for slightly less than they want.
The world needs ditch diggers too.
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So I gather you are an expert on what sales associates are worth at Walmart as compared to other companies. The average grocery clerk at Fred Meyer, a big box chain store operation much like Walmart, makes $22,000. Walmart sales associate positions pay $8.88 hourly. I could find no information for average annual salary. However, if the Fred Meyer grocery clerk wage exampled represents fulltime work the position pays $10. an hour. Walmart notoriously keeps much of their workforce at less then fulltime to avoid paying health and other benefits only afforded fulltime employees.
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/09/24/2669191/walmart-adds-fulltime-workers/
Prime at what point is it the individuals responsibility to find full time employment that pays a decent wage?
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Pure market value.
OK - why is that the appropriate in all cases?
Let's say you had a town with an industry employing 500,000 workers. That industry ups and moves to China leaving a huge gap in the job market there.
Wal Mart then decides to fire all of it's staff and offer up jobs at $2 an hour, knowing that in the pool of 500,000 newly unemployed workers, there will be some desperate enough to take the job.
This is pure market value. It's also exploitation. Not much different from a sweatshop in some 3rd world shitehole.
But it's OK because it's pure market value, right?
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OK - why is that the appropriate in all cases?
Let's say you had a town with an industry employing 500,000 workers. That industry ups and moves to China leaving a huge gap in the job market there.
Wal Mart then decides to fire all of it's staff and offer up jobs at $2 an hour, knowing that in the pool of 500,000 newly unemployed workers, there will be some desperate enough to take the job.
This is pure market value. It's also exploitation. Not much different from a sweatshop in some 3rd world shitehole.
But it's OK because it's pure market value, right?
FUCKING MOVE!!!!
go to where the jobs are
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OK - why is that the appropriate in all cases?
Let's say you had a town with an industry employing 500,000 workers. That industry ups and moves to China leaving a huge gap in the job market there.
Wal Mart then decides to fire all of it's staff and offer up jobs at $2 an hour, knowing that in the pool of 500,000 newly unemployed workers, there will be some desperate enough to take the job.
This is pure market value. It's also exploitation. Not much different from a sweatshop in some 3rd world shitehole.
But it's OK because it's pure market value, right?
whats funny is that the catalyst for your scenario is a business going over seas and you think that forcing the employers to pay more than what the workers are worth wont cause more companies to do the same exact fucking thing ::)
again the business sense of libtards is just fucking non existent
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OK - why is that the appropriate in all cases?
Let's say you had a town with an industry employing 500,000 workers. That industry ups and moves to China leaving a huge gap in the job market there.
Wal Mart then decides to fire all of it's staff and offer up jobs at $2 an hour, knowing that in the pool of 500,000 newly unemployed workers, there will be some desperate enough to take the job.
This is pure market value. It's also exploitation. Not much different from a sweatshop in some 3rd world shitehole.
But it's OK because it's pure market value, right?
or better yet start your own business and pay your workers more
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FUCKING MOVE!!!!
go to where the jobs are
What - to China?
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whats funny is that the catalyst for your scenario is a business going over seas and you think that forcing the employers to pay more than what the workers are worth wont cause more companies to do the same exact fucking thing ::)
again the business sense of libtards is just fucking non existent
The scenario I mentioned was a company going overseas, correct. In that case you would have 500,000 people newly on benefits. Being paid for from your taxes.
So the scenario I outlined was an employer firing all it's employees because they know they can pick up enough desperate people to work say.... $2 an hour.
I did not talk at any point about forcing anyone to do anything. That was you. I just outlined a clear case of exploitation. Just so you could possibly understand that 'market forces' are not the only dynamic at play.
Also - it is worth noting that Wal-Mart, cannot relocate overseas.
At the end of the day, you are an extremist to an extent. Market Forces decide all and nothing else matters and anything else is communism. You have brought into a viewpoint that is very much flawed.
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What - to China?
how about to another town
and....
whats funny is that the catalyst for your scenario is a business going over seas and you think that forcing the employers to pay more than what the workers are worth wont cause more companies to do the same exact fucking thing ::)
again the business sense of libtards is just fucking non existent
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The scenario I mentioned was a company going overseas, correct. In that case you would have 500,000 people newly on benefits. Being paid for from your taxes.
So the scenario I outlined was an employer firing all it's employees because they know they can pick up enough desperate people to work say.... $2 an hour.
I did not talk at any point about forcing anyone to do anything. That was you. I just outlined a clear case of exploitation. Just so you could possibly understand that 'market forces' are not the only dynamic at play.
Also - it is worth noting that Wal-Mart, cannot relocate overseas.
At the end of the day, you are an extremist to an extent. Market Forces decide all and nothing else matters and anything else is communism. You have brought into a viewpoint that is very much flawed.
I am not saying nothing else matters, MINIMAL regulations are needed. If there arent other ways for these people to make money and obtain a living then we can talk.
AS OF NOW, there are plenty of jobs...maybe not in their region but plenty of jobs for people with the right skills, education and experience.
sorry you dont get to be uneducated with little skills and or experience and expect to get paid well.
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Prime at what point is it the individuals responsibility to find full time employment that pays a decent wage?
maybe you can answer this pedro?
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I am not saying nothing else matters, MINIMAL regulations are needed. If there arent other ways for these people to make money and obtain a living then we can talk.
AS OF NOW, there are plenty of jobs...maybe not in their region but plenty of jobs for people with the right skills, education and experience.
sorry you dont get to be uneducated with little skills and or experience and expect to get paid well.
You are skirting the point of the example and it was a very simple example. A bunch of people become unemployed in an area, so an employer fires all their existing staff and offers jobs @ $2 an hour, knowing that some people will be desperate enough to take it.
You are OK with this, right? It's just the free market, not exploitation, right?
You can't answer because you know it is exploitation and it doesn't fit into your "market decides all" philosophy - which is an extremist philosophy. This isn't a black and white issue - capitalism or communism. The market just isn't that good that it can be used to make every decision that needs to be made on the planet.
No system can be trusted to fit all cases and at the end of the day humankind should have aspirations other than profit.
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The world needs ditch diggers too.
+1
The world needs:
Ditch diggers
Shelf stackers
Toilet cleaners
Strawberry pickers
Why should these jobs not pay a decent wage, exactly? The work isn't hard enough? Too menial?
The world also would prefer people with low IQs/mild mental disabilities to be self-sufficient
Prime at what point is it the individuals responsibility to find full time employment that pays a decent wage?
Why would any employment not pay a decent wage?
I'd say it's everyone's responsibility to find a job and I think that more able people will get better jobs. There needs to be a baseline though.
Are you OK with an employer not paying any salary - just housing and feeding their employees and having them work 12 hours a day? If this is what the free market decides, are you OK with that? If not, then you obviously do have some concept of minimum wage, so the discussion is not really about whether people should be paid fairly but what amount constitutes fair pay.
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FUCKING MOVE!!!!
go to where the jobs are
Obviously, that is very easy to say when it's not you, your wife, your 2 kids moving with you, changing schools, selling your house but not being in a position to get a mortgage on a new one.
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You are skirting the point of the example and it was a very simple example. A bunch of people become unemployed in an area, so an employer fires all their existing staff and offers jobs @ $2 an hour, knowing that some people will be desperate enough to take it.
You are OK with this, right? It's just the free market, not exploitation, right?
You can't answer because you know it is exploitation and it doesn't fit into your "market decides all" philosophy - which is an extremist philosophy. This isn't a black and white issue - capitalism or communism. The market just isn't that good that it can be used to make every decision that needs to be made on the planet.
No system can be trusted to fit all cases and at the end of the day humankind should have aspirations other than profit.
and once again I stated, MINIMAL REGULATION IS NEEDED
the argument is that if the Market does not provide a living wage then we can talk. THE MARKET PROVIDES A LIVING WAGE!!!!
it may not be at that exact location, but thats why you need to move
Obviously, that is very easy to say when it's not you, your wife, your 2 kids moving with you, changing schools, selling your house but not being in a position to get a mortgage on a new one.
lifes rough all around I guess then, nut up and do what you need to do.
Why do you believe that a person gets to decided what they do for a living, what type of job they want to have, how many kids, what schools, how much they get paid and employers just need to deal with it?
The employers are providing jobs, ITS THE EMPLOYEES RESPONSIBILITY TO GET THEM
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OK - why is that the appropriate in all cases?
Let's say you had a town with an industry employing 500,000 workers. That industry ups and moves to China leaving a huge gap in the job market there.
Wal Mart then decides to fire all of it's staff and offer up jobs at $2 an hour, knowing that in the pool of 500,000 newly unemployed workers, there will be some desperate enough to take the job.
This is pure market value. It's also exploitation. Not much different from a sweatshop in some 3rd world shitehole.
But it's OK because it's pure market value, right?
Absolutely. If they dont want to accept the $2 then relocate, get mored education , etc.... No company is obligated to take care of an employee. There is no loyalty in either direction. To think that there truly is, is naive.
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hes not wrong..... the gov exists to service the citizens... they take our money by force, and theyre supposed to use it to support its citizens. .. except that they dont, rhey see it that we owe them and work for them, which is bullshit and the citizens need to take control back and make tje gov remember that they exist for us, not vice versa.
Go4it!
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hes not wrong..... the gov exists to service the citizens... they take our money by force, and theyre supposed to use it to support its citizens. .. except that they dont, rhey see it that we owe them and work for them, which is bullshit and the citizens need to take control back and make tje gov remember that they exist for us, not vice versa.
Government collects taxes in a manner and amount approved by the citizens who take the time and energy to vote. It only seems like force if you disagree and yet took no appropriate action against it.
Just so you know government employees are not public servants in the sense that they aren't slaves working for the good of others, but paid employees working for the good of all.
Most government employees are just regular working class citizens like most of the rest of the population. The proposition that it is a them verses us agenda is utter bullshit. Even elected officials come from all walks of life and not just the wealthy....although wealth doesn't hurt if you want to get elected and are willing to spend a lot of money and exert a lot of influence based on your power over others, such as was the case with Mitt Romney, although he wasn't successful many others in similar situations are.
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it's tricky...
Unions are pretty shady - they influence elections, they do some shady shit with the $, lots of accusations of bribing, etc - They take a lot of dues and do a lot of things most people would call shady. So on the macro, BAD.
Big business is pretty shady - they influence elections, they do some shady shit with the $, lots of accusations of bribing, etc.
Incidentally, union dues cannot legally be used for political action without the dues payers' consent.
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Teachers: “The union members earn $224 a week more than non-union educators, with median weekly earnings at $1,038.”
Firefighters and police officers: “Union workers make about $1,008 a week, and non-union workers make $627.”
Factory workers: “Union workers make about $836 a week, $56 a week more than non-union employees.”
Construction workers: “Union workers earn about $361 more per week than their non-union counterparts.”
Transportation and warehousing workers: “Union employees earn about $215 more per week, or 30%, than non-union workers.”
Utilities workers: “Union employees in this industry tend to earn 10.2% more per week than non-union workers.”
These comparisons may be accurate to a degree. But for it to be a comprehensive comparison, one would need to know where the non-union employee counterparts work.
Teachers, perhaps in parochial and private schools.
Firefighters and police.....are there non-union counterparts to these professions?
Factory workers, there are probably more non-union factory workers than union ones even if you only consider workers in the U.S.
Construction workers - trade unions, I have no idea the ratio of union to non-union here. Non-union workers need not meet any particular requirements to work in these trades while union workers go through rigorous apprenticeships to become journeymen in their field.
Transportation worker and warehouse workers should not be lumped together. These are two very different occupations. My guess is that many more transportation workers are unionized then are warehouse workers.
Are there utility companies that employ non-union workers? That's a scary proposition. I'd hate to think the person working on high power lines or natural gas mains aren't skilled in their trade (see construction workers).
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So I gather you are an expert on what sales associates are worth at Walmart as compared to other companies. The average grocery clerk at Fred Meyer, a big box chain store operation much like Walmart, makes $22,000. Walmart sales associate positions pay $8.88 hourly. I could find no information for average annual salary. However, if the Fred Meyer grocery clerk wage exampled represents fulltime work the position pays $10. an hour. Walmart notoriously keeps much of their workforce at less then fulltime to avoid paying health and other benefits only afforded fulltime employees.
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/09/24/2669191/walmart-adds-fulltime-workers/
The bastards. Man that pisses me off.
Do you know what I'll do if that were me working at Walmart? Wait for it, this is incredible ....;
I'll quit and go elsewhere.
Do you know what I'll do if there weren't any jobs where I live. I'll move. I don't expect to have everything around me, set up for me so I can live where I want.
You people want stuff too easy.
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Prime at what point is it the individuals responsibility to find full time employment that pays a decent wage?
From the start. If they need fulltime work to make ends meet, it is their responsibility to seek it. Unfortunately, seeking and finding in today's market are not always synonymous. Have you never taken a stopgap job until you could find something better? Sometimes and for some people these stopgap jobs trap them into years of underemployment.
This doesn't always happen at the onset of seeking for employment. People in the middle or latter part of their working lives are sometimes laid off for a variety of reasons. I know, I've been there. My position was contracted out to a private company when I was 50 years old. While I wasn't laid off, I was put in a position of having to decide between taking a lesser position or quit. I chose to remain employed with the same company. My wages were subsequently frozen for 10 years before I saw another increase in salary. Incidentally, I did seek other employment, but was unsuccessful. No doubt being in my 50's and having a higher salary requirement then someone at the entry level was something of a determent for me. It's a common situation, unfortunately.
I knew of a longtime factory worker for Bingham Willamette in Portland. His position was eliminated when they moved their operation to a third world country and when he was near the end of his working years. He ended up working for a Seven Eleven to pay the bills. Life can be the shits sometimes and those of us who survive often do so because we make sacrifices or compromises we never thought we'd be making.
Imagine some young person just starting out who has a family to support and little or no skills. They pretty much are stuck taking whatever employment they can find. It is not that this is anyone else's fault or responsibility, it just is and it is far too common. If I were the CEO of Walmart, I guess I would say thank goodness for these poor suckers, because they are making me and the company shareholders rich.
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Absolutely. If they dont want to accept the $2 then relocate, get mored education , etc.... No company is obligated to take care of an employee. There is no loyalty in either direction. To think that there truly is, is naive.
You're talking to that walls here my man.
Some people will just never be able to take responsibility for their own destinies and want their dirty little asses wiped by the government, and the taxpayers propping up terrible life choices.
I just cannot believe that people are willing to live like that.
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The bastards. Man that pisses me off.
Do you know what I'll do if that were me working at Walmart? Wait for it, this is incredible ....;
I'll quit and go elsewhere.
Do you know what I'll do if there weren't any jobs where I live. I'll move. I don't expect to have everything around me, set up for me so I can live where I want.
You people want stuff too easy.
James,
I know you believe what you are saying and that's as it should be. I also hope you are never faced with situations like you describe because I suspect you might end up being a little surprised that believing something and living it are very different.
I honestly don't think people wake up in the morning and say to themselves, I am going to go out and find low paying part time employment today. Tomorrow, maybe I will find something better. Shit happens. Not all the folks working for low wages are doing this by design.
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The world needs ditch diggers too.
This ^
The question isn't so much that the world needs them as whether we need them bad enough to pay them to do what we don't want to do ourselves.
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From the start. If they need fulltime work to make ends meet, it is their responsibility to seek it. Unfortunately, seeking and finding in today's market are not always synonymous. Have you never taken a stopgap job until you could find something better? Sometimes and for some people these stopgap jobs trap them into years of underemployment.
YUP, been there personally...You know what I did prime?
I went back to school at night while working got ANOTHER degree that was marketable and after graduating and getting a good job went to school at night for my MBA so that I would never have to go through that again....
Dont give me the cry me a river bull shit, these people need to do what they need to do to get a better job. Dont sit there and complain about your situation, do something to better it.
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Imagine some young person just starting out who has a family to support and little or no skills. They pretty much are stuck taking whatever employment they can find. It is not that this is anyone else's fault or responsibility, it just is and it is far too common. If I were the CEO of Walmart, I guess I would say thank goodness for these poor suckers, because they are making me and the company shareholders rich.
First, WHAT THE FUCK is a young person with no skills doing with a family to support?
SOMEONE ELSES FUCK UPS, should not be our responsibility...PERIOD
Yes prime, idiots making idiotic decisions is FAR TO COMMON. I think we should let these people deal with the consequences of their decisions and maybe their children will learn from their parents mistakes.
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whats funny is that the catalyst for your scenario is a business going over seas and you think that forcing the employers to pay more than what the workers are worth wont cause more companies to do the same exact fucking thing ::)
again the business sense of libtards is just fucking non existent
This is the conundrum. If government forces companies to pay workers a competitive wage and in response they can relocate to a third world country where they not only do not pay a decent wage but pay so little that their profits are increased exponentially, why wouldn't they do this? The answer is fair trade agreements.
In a perfect world, there would be no third world countries with slave labor. But we don't live in a perfect world. America the great was built on greed. Unfortunately, as the middleclass shrinks so does the spending power of the populace. Somewhere in the future, if these things continue as they have for the last several decades, these big companies will be producing or selling products which the bulk of the workers cannot afford to purchase. Governments already cannot keep up with the need for assistance to the working poor who are marginalized in the marketplace. Just a month or so ago, the federal government reduced food stamp allotments for a family of four by $40 a month. No big deal right? It is a big deal because that is $40 which is not going back into the economy or better yet into the Walmart shareholder's pockets. In a sense, companies like Walmart are simply cutting their own throats.
Anyone ever hear of the French Revolution? "Let them eat cake" a much repeated comment misattributed to Marie Antoinette. The downtrodden responded by cutting off her head. Look out Walton family, your heads could be next.
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I am not saying nothing else matters, MINIMAL regulations are needed. If there arent other ways for these people to make money and obtain a living then we can talk.
AS OF NOW, there are plenty of jobs...maybe not in their region but plenty of jobs for people with the right skills, education and experience.
sorry you dont get to be uneducated with little skills and or experience and expect to get paid well.
Define paid well. I think many of these folks just want to be paid fairly....forget about paid well.
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First, WHAT THE FUCK is a young person with no skills doing with a family to support?
SOMEONE ELSES FUCK UPS, should not be our responsibility...PERIOD
Yes prime, idiots making idiotic decisions is FAR TO COMMON. I think we should let these people deal with the consequences of their decisions and maybe their children will learn from their parents mistakes.
I was going to pounce on that right away but was on my phone laying in bed so couldn't easily type a rant to describe what an utter, utter utterly stupid and irresponsible thing that is to do. No wonder these big companies have an endless supply go cheap labour.
Idiotic and irresponsible life choices.
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Define paid well. I think many of these folks just want to be paid fairly....forget about paid well.
Doesn't have to be defined. It's relative.
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This is the conundrum. If government forces companies to pay workers a competitive wage and in response they can relocate to a third world country where they not only do not pay a decent wage but pay so little that their profits are increased exponentially, why wouldn't they do this? The answer is fair trade agreements.
In a perfect world, there would be no third world countries with slave labor. But we don't live in a perfect world. America the great was built on greed. Unfortunately, as the middleclass shrinks so does the spending power of the populace. Somewhere in the future, if these things continue as they have for the last several decades, these big companies will be producing or selling products which the bulk of the workers cannot afford to purchase. Governments already cannot keep up with the need for assistance to the working poor who are marginalized in the marketplace. Just a month or so ago, the federal government reduced food stamp allotments for a family of four by $40 a month. No big deal right? It is a big deal because that is $40 which is not going back into the economy or better yet into the Walmart shareholder's pockets. In a sense, companies like Walmart are simply cutting their own throats.
Anyone ever hear of the French Revolution? "Let them eat cake" a much repeated comment misattributed to Marie Antoinette. The downtrodden responded by cutting off her head. Look out Walton family, your heads could be next.
Companies like Walmart will redefine themselves and redefine their markets. They'll adapt to a changing market. They'll be fine.
It's just a shame their customers are incapable of doing the same.
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if you want to argue corporate tax code thats something we can do along with corporate tax rate which is one of the highest in the world. I can actually agree with you on many of the issues you probably have in regards to corporate tax code and reform.
THATS NOT THE ISSUE HERE....
The more education you have the better your employability and the more money you will ultimately make...THATS A FACT
The less education you have the harder it is to get a job and make a good wage...THATS A FACT
you act as if these people are all just down on their luck and have not made decisions that put them in this place.
If there isnt any jobs in your area...FUCKING MOVE MORON!!!!
If you cant get a job b/c you dont have a GED...GET A FUCKING GED MORON, and then get a college education in something that is marketable.
I'll give you that at #2 the 2012 U.S. corporate tax rate is very high. What this statement doesn't address is that the corporate tax rate is significantly close in at least 15 other countries. http://www.gfmag.com/component/content/article/119-economic-data/12526-corporate-tax-by-country.html#axzz2lXOYIFeq. I suggest a more accurate assessment is to look at total tax burden by country. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_as_percentage_of_GDP. If you look at this chart, you will see that the U.S. isn't all that high compared to other countries. It fact we fall somewhere near the middle worldwide.
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Define paid well. I think many of these folks just want to be paid fairly....forget about paid well.
more than what the market provides
define "paid fairly"
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I'll give you that at #2 the 2012 U.S. corporate tax rate is very high. What this statement doesn't address is the at the corporate tax rate is significantly close in at least 15 other countries. http://www.gfmag.com/component/content/article/119-economic-data/12526-corporate-tax-by-country.html#axzz2lXOYIFeq. I suggest a more accurate assessment is to look at total tax burden by country. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_as_percentage_of_GDP. If you look at this chart, you will see that the U.S. isn't all that high compared to other countries. It fact we fall somewhere near the middle worldwide.
AS IT SHOULD BE...Its our money, not the governments!!!!
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I'll give you that at #2 the 2012 U.S. corporate tax rate is very high. What this statement doesn't address is the at the corporate tax rate is significantly close in at least 15 other countries. http://www.gfmag.com/component/content/article/119-economic-data/12526-corporate-tax-by-country.html#axzz2lXOYIFeq. I suggest a more accurate assessment is to look at total tax burden by country. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_as_percentage_of_GDP. If you look at this chart, you will see that the U.S. isn't all that high compared to other countries. It fact we fall somewhere near the middle worldwide.
so what youre saying is there was only one country with a higher tax rate than the US?
why would any business that has the ability to save money by moving operations over sea's NOT DO SO?
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YUP, been there personally...You know what I did prime?
I went back to school at night while working got ANOTHER degree that was marketable and after graduating and getting a good job went to school at night for my MBA so that I would never have to go through that again....
Dont give me the cry me a river bull shit, these people need to do what they need to do to get a better job. Dont sit there and complain about your situation, do something to better it.
I admire your ambition. Like you, I have always done whatever was necessary (and within the law) to make a living for my family. Nothing was handed to me. Although my parents weren't poor, they didn't pay for my education, I did. I worked at some fairly crappy jobs, in terms of benefits and wages when I was young and our family survived. I must also give credit to my wife who would have preferred to be a stay at home mom, but helped support our family when my income alone didn't suffice.
Frankly, I hope these folks don't all decide to go get a better job at once or the rest of us are going to be in a world of hurt. If there was no itinerant farm labor, groceries would skyrocket and we'd all be scrambling to find enough money to keep our fridges stocked. In Oregon, you cannot pump your own gas. If it weren't for those folks willing to work for peanuts who pump our gas for us, well....I guess the legislature would have to quickly change the law.
My stepfather was an 8th grade graduate from an extremely poor polish immigrant family. His stepdad was a drunk who worked as a coal miner and "owed his soul to the company store." As soon as he could, my stepdad fled that life to make a better one for himself. And he did, eventually. He did this because above all else he had ambition and a willingness to work his ass off. Thanks to his ambition and success, my childhood was anything but one of impoverishment. We weren't wealthy, but we lived very well.
While I still believe ambition is key, I am a realist. Sometimes despite all the ambition in the world doesn't cut it. Sometimes some people have incredibly bad luck. I'll give you that the number of people in this unfortunate group are not as plentiful as some would have the rest of us think, but bad things do happen to good people some of the time.
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First, WHAT THE FUCK is a young person with no skills doing with a family to support?
SOMEONE ELSES FUCK UPS, should not be our responsibility...PERIOD
Yes prime, idiots making idiotic decisions is FAR TO COMMON. I think we should let these people deal with the consequences of their decisions and maybe their children will learn from their parents mistakes.
Exactly right, young people shouldn't be making babies when they are essentially still babies themselves, but they do. And when they do, sometimes their lack of forethought becomes other's responsibility. In times past, families were closer and they assumed enough responsibility to help one another out in times of need. Such is not the case as often today, unfortunately....at least not in the U.S. I don't like supporting other peoples mistakes any better then you do. Can you suggest an option? Should we sterilize those who continue to reproduce without the resources to be responsible for their product? Maybe, like in some countries we could simply off the excess children at birth. Somehow, I don't see this happening, do you?
It is great to yak on about how things ought to work, but you and I and most of the rest of the folks have little ability to make sweeping changes to make things as we'd like them to be. In the end, it is all just talk, isn't it?
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Doesn't have to be defined. It's relative.
Get real. Most companies pay folks as little as possible for the work they do. We're talking about Walmart here, but Walmart is hardly alone in this. Many companies underpay employees and as a result they often have labor problems.
I don't see this changing anytime soon, although recently Walmart discovered they were losing business because of their employment tactics, that being hiring temporary workers who have absolutely no investment in their jobs and thus do a crappy one. Supposedly, Walmart is rethinking their strategy and say they are making more employees fulltime workers with benefits. Maybe this is how the employment market balances. As customer service gets worse and worse at these large retail outfits who rely on volume in sales and their customers flee to other locations where employees have more of an investment in their jobs and thus more of a commitment to customer service, they will have to change to survive.
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Exactly right, young people shouldn't be making babies when they are essentially still babies themselves, but they do. And when they do, sometimes their lack of forethought becomes other's responsibility. In times past, families were closer and they assumed enough responsibility to help one another out in times of need. Such is not the case as often today, unfortunately....at least not in the U.S. I don't like supporting other peoples mistakes any better then you do. Can you suggest an option? Should we sterilize those who continue to reproduce without the resources to be responsible for their product? Maybe, like in some countries we could simply off the excess children at birth. Somehow, I don't see this happening, do you?
It is great to yak on about how things ought to work, but you and I and most of the rest of the folks have little ability to make sweeping changes to make things as we'd like them to be. In the end, it is all just talk, isn't it?
first let me address your line of thinking, so we should just bend over and take it up the ass by these idiots who will by all probable statistics make more babies while on government assistance and let them escape from their bad decisions on the backs of others?
how about we make these idiots take some personal responsibility?
I have said many times if you are on govt assistance you shouldnt be allowed to have more children then you already do. They should be given actual food instead of cards
The issue is you give a person an inch and they take a mile. Sooner or later you have more people taking miles then giving into the system. Look at Greece, France etc. The US is at that tipping point now and if things arent done in a hurry there wont be a future for us.
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more than what the market provides
define "paid fairly"
Fairly means in my opinion that employees are paid wages and benefits consistent with other like corporations. If Safeway, Fred Meyer, Albertson's and others make solid profits while paying higher wages and providing benefits, so can corporations like Walmart.
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first let me address your line of thinking, so we should just bend over and take it up the ass by these idiots who will by all probable statistics make more babies while on government assistance and let them escape from their bad decisions on the backs of others?
how about we make these idiots take some personal responsibility?
I have said many times if you are on govt assistance you shouldnt be allowed to have more children then you already do. They should be given actual food instead of cards
The issue is you give a person an inch and they take a mile. Sooner or later you have more people taking miles then giving into the system. Look at Greece, France etc. The US is at that tipping point now and if things arent done in a hurry there wont be a future for us.
T, it's good that you're concerned. Making unsupported comments about tipping points, though? I don't know about that. If you've been reading stuff along those lines, it'd be good for you to post some links.
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AS IT SHOULD BE...Its our money, not the governments!!!!
You speak of the U.S. government as if it were some dictatorship. Government in the U.S. is a government of the people, by the people and for the people. Nothing happens without our input at some point. If you don't like the way government is operating, lobby and vote to change it. There are many places around the world where this is not a possibility without risking death. Think about that.
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Fairly means in my opinion that employees are paid wages and benefits consistent with other like corporations. If Safeway, Fred Meyer, Albertson's and others make solid profits while paying higher wages and providing benefits, so can corporations like Walmart.
LMFAO you do know they are completely other businesses with completely different operations, expenses and margins?
you see this is the problem with alot of the people with your point of view, they lack business sense. You guys generally have no idea how a business works internally, how actions effect different margins and how those margins effect the bottom line.
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T, it's good that you're concerned. Making unsupported comments about tipping points, though? I don't know about that. If you've been reading stuff along those lines, it'd be good for you to post some links.
how many people are working as opposed to not working?
the trillions in debt that is ever increasing, is a great indication as well
waiting until the problem is a problem is to late, addressing the problem before it becomes a problem is what needs to happen.
I assume you can agree that it is a problem?
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How the hell is this stupid thread still going? lol
If the workers are getting screwed it's their own fault.
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You speak of the U.S. government as if it were some dictatorship. Government in the U.S. is a government of the people, by the people and for the people. Nothing happens without our input at some point. If you don't like the way government is operating, lobby and vote to change it. There are many places around the world where this is not a possibility without risking death. Think about that.
So let me get this straight, its up to me to be active in changing the govt but its not up to people with no skills, education or experience to obtain them to better themselves?
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so what youre saying is there was only one country with a higher tax rate than the US?
why would any business that has the ability to save money by moving operations over sea's NOT DO SO?
Let's be clear here, this is in reference to corporate tax. Corporate tax is just one of many taxes in any country. Don't make the mistake of oversimplifying this issue. If you were correct, then your statement would also be correct. Trust me corporations don't operate in the U.S. despite corporate tax rates out of the goodness of their hearts. There are other tax reasons/incentives for doing so.
Oregon has no sales tax. Wonder why everyone doesn't move here to avoid sales tax? Well our income and property tax is somewhat higher than some of our neighboring states.
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So let me get this straight, its up to me to be active in changing the govt but its not up to people with no skills, education or experience to obtain them to better themselves?
why cant I just sit on my ass and expect others to do this for me?
I mean to me it seems like youre saying its the American way
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Let's be clear here, this is in reference to corporate tax. Corporate tax is just one of many taxes in any country. Don't make the mistake of oversimplifying this issue. If you were correct, then your statement would also be correct. Trust me corporations don't operate in the U.S. despite corporate tax rates out of the goodness of their hearts. There are other tax reasons/incentives for doing so.
Oregon has no sales tax. Wonder why everyone doesn't move here to avoid sales tax? Well our income and property tax is somewhat higher than some of our neighboring states.
I was oversimplifying to make a point
If a business can operate effectively for less else where, THEY ARE GOING TO DO IT!!!!!
If you can buy the same house for $200K or $250K, which one are you going to pay?
make it cheaper for business to operate here in the US and they will do it
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Let's be clear here, this is in reference to corporate tax. Corporate tax is just one of many taxes in any country. Don't make the mistake of oversimplifying this issue. If you were correct, then your statement would also be correct. Trust me corporations don't operate in the U.S. despite corporate tax rates out of the goodness of their hearts. There are other tax reasons/incentives for doing so.
Oregon has no sales tax. Wonder why everyone doesn't move here to avoid sales tax? Well our income and property tax is somewhat higher than some of our neighboring states.
That's why we need to cut taxes across the board and become business friendly again.
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first let me address your line of thinking, so we should just bend over and take it up the ass by these idiots who will by all probable statistics make more babies while on government assistance and let them escape from their bad decisions on the backs of others?
how about we make these idiots take some personal responsibility?
I have said many times if you are on govt assistance you shouldnt be allowed to have more children then you already do. They should be given actual food instead of cards
The issue is you give a person an inch and they take a mile. Sooner or later you have more people taking miles then giving into the system. Look at Greece, France etc. The US is at that tipping point now and if things arent done in a hurry there wont be a future for us.
You are an idealist who lacks logic. Your ideals will never fly. I am as angry as you are about people having piles of children they cannot afford to raise and often don't provide for in anyway. These people remind me of stray cats producing litters of children that often end up in the pound or at the humane society. But people aren't cats and we don't euthanize their unwanted babies.
Incidentally, the cards provided folks for buying food only allow them to buy food. Now one could argue that some people buy steaks with these cards when hamburger would be more inline with their needs and they would be right. So do let us consider handing out food products instead. Who should do this? You are opposed to more government. Should the grocery stores hire folks to give food to qualified needy folks? Who is going to pay these employee's salary? There is no profit in giving food away. If the stores have to pay the folks who man this program, they'll have to pass that expense along to those of us who pay for our food.
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Get real. Most companies pay folks as little as possible for the work they do. We're talking about Walmart here, but Walmart is hardly alone in this. Many companies underpay employees and as a result they often have labor problems.
Then you go elsewhere. Sweet fuck, I might as well put this in my sig so I don't have to keep repeating myself.
The people that worked hard enough to be able to run those companies or those who started those companies, can run it any way they please or pay whatever they deem fair, within the rule of law off course.
The other companies within the same market pays more? Then go get a job there. Or is the Walmart management forcing people into their stores and factories at gunpoint?
I'm truly sorry that you're not able to see it for the way it is, instead of the way you wished it were.
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how many people are working as opposed to not working?
the trillions in debt that is ever increasing, is a great indication as well
waiting until the problem is a problem is to late, addressing the problem before it becomes a problem is what needs to happen.
I assume you can agree that it is a problem?
Problem, yeah. Saying we're at a "tipping point" (without using any qualifying language like "we may be at a ...") seems to be saying a lot more than just saying that we have a problem that could result in some horrible outcomes so I was wondering if you had any supporting links.
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The people that worked hard enough to be able to run those companies or those who started those companies, can run it any way they please or pay whatever they deem fair, within the rule of law off course.
Isn't the "rule of law" what's in question here? The law, fortunately, gets to be decided upon with input from those running the companies and from those who might work for the companies.
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You are an idealist who lacks logic. Your ideals will never fly. I am as angry as you are about people having piles of children they cannot afford to raise and often don't provide for in anyway. These people remind me of stray cats producing litters of children that often end up in the pound or at the humane society. But people aren't cats and we don't euthanize their unwanted babies.
Incidentally, the cards provided folks for buying food only allow them to buy food. Now one could argue that some people buy steaks with these cards when hamburger would be more inline with their needs and they would be right. So do let us consider handing out food products instead. Who should do this? You are opposed to more government. Should the grocery stores hire folks to give food to qualified needy folks? Who is going to pay these employee's salary? There is no profit in giving food away. If the stores have to pay the folks who man this program, they'll have to pass that expense along to those of us who pay for our food.
stopping people from having kids while taking tax payers money, LACKS LOGIC???
LMFAO how so?
you dont necissarily have to give them food but limiting what they can buy on those cards is a start. You should be limited to a small number of cheap and healthy choices, CHEAP BEING THE KEY.
If you want to actually give food, they businesses can be reimbursed for the food they give to these individuals...no extra employees needed.
Again not to pick on you prime, you really seem to lack a general sense of how a business works from the inside.
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LMFAO you do know they are completely other businesses with completely different operations, expenses and margins?
you see this is the problem with alot of the people with your point of view, they lack business sense. You guys generally have no idea how a business works internally, how actions effect different margins and how those margins effect the bottom line.
Wall Mart, Fred Meyer, Target and others are all vying for the same customer base. In my neighborhood, Safeway, Albertsons and the Wallmart Neighborhood Market are all geared towards the same customers. I intentionally did not mention, Market of Choice because their customers aren't looking for the best price so much as they are the best quality and top notch customer service. However, I think most customers expect good customer service.
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So let me get this straight, its up to me to be active in changing the govt but its not up to people with no skills, education or experience to obtain them to better themselves?
I think it is time for you to log off. Your posts are bordering on the ridiculous at this point. No one made the comparison you suggested here. One thing has virtually nothing to do with the other.
What I find all to often is that the folks who do the most griping about big government or just government in general, take no active stance to change what they don't like. In fact, many don't even bother to vote and often they are the very people who are the most vocal about election results. Seems pretty stupid to me.
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Problem, yeah. Saying we're at a "tipping point" (without using any qualifying language like "we may be at a ...") seems to be saying a lot more than just saying that we have a problem that could result in some horrible outcomes so I was wondering if you had any supporting links.
what links would you like?
I could link you to the ever increasing debt?
the number of people on govt assistance vs those working etc
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Wall Mart, Fred Meyer, Target and others are all vying for the same customer base. In my neighborhood, Safeway, Albertsons and the Wallmart Neighborhood Market are all geared towards the same customers. I intentionally did not mention, Market of Choice because their customers aren't looking for the best price so much as they are the best quality and top notch customer service. However, I think most customers expect good customer service.
simply b/c your vying for the same customer base doesnt mean your operations, expenses and margins are similar...LMFAO
BUSINESS SENSE!!!!!
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I think it is time for you to log off. Your posts are bordering on the ridiculous at this point. No one made the comparison you suggested here. One thing has virtually nothing to do with the other.
What I find all to often is that the folks who do the most griping about big government or just government in general, take no active stance to change what they don't like. In fact, many don't even bother to vote and often they are the very people who are the most vocal about election results. Seems pretty stupid to me.
what you have said is while its someones responsibility to get more education, skills and experience it doesnt matter so we have to support these fuck ups.
at the same time, it is my responsibility to make changes to the govt if I dont like it and thats all there is to it...
WHY NOT APPLY THAT SAME LOGIC TO THE FUCK UPS????
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stopping people from having kids while taking tax payers money, LACKS LOGIC???
LMFAO how so?
you dont necissarily have to give them food but limiting what they can buy on those cards is a start. You should be limited to a small number of cheap and healthy choices, CHEAP BEING THE KEY.
If you want to actually give food, they businesses can be reimbursed for the food they give to these individuals...no extra employees needed.
Again not to pick on you prime, you really seem to lack a general sense of how a business works from the inside.
Not to be insulting to you, because I suspect you mean well, but it is a waste of my time to reply to you at this point. I suggest you read what you posted here tomorrow and think about it some....then we can discuss this some more.
I don't purport to have all the answers and neither should you.
How about you take some time to develop a detailed business model for how you plan to give people who qualify certain food products with no additional manpower instead of just posting off the top of your head. And I am not picking on you either.
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Not to be insulting to you, because I suspect you mean well, but it is a waste of my time to reply to you at this point. I suggest you read what you posted here tomorrow and think about it some....then we can discuss this some more.
I don't purport to have all the answers and neither should you.
How about you take some time to develop a detailed business model for how you plan to give people who qualify certain food products with no additional manpower instead of just posting off the top of your head. And I am not picking on you either
hahaha your double standards and lack of business sense arent going to make any more sense in the morning but sure.
I dont pretend to have all the answers, but I do know how a business works.
If I were you I would google Income statement and develop a working knowledge of it as a basis for future discussions...also gross margin, COGS, operating expenses and net income and how they are calculated and related to one another.
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simply b/c your vying for the same customer base doesnt mean your operations, expenses and margins are similar...LMFAO
BUSINESS SENSE!!!!!
So let me see here. Company A is selling the same products at the same prices to the same customer base as company B. How is it that company B's operations, expenses are different exactly? Oh that's right, profit margins. Yeah, I guess if you want to make more profits then the next guy, you have to do it on the backs of the employees all other things being equal.
Just so you know, I worked as a home furnishings buyer for a major department store for the better part of twenty years. I was very successful in my job, which means I must have some idea about profit margins, operations and expenses.
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Wall Mart, Fred Meyer, Target and others are all vying for the same customer base. In my neighborhood, Safeway, Albertsons and the Wallmart Neighborhood Market are all geared towards the same customers. I intentionally did not mention, Market of Choice because their customers aren't looking for the best price so much as they are the best quality and top notch customer service. However, I think most customers expect good customer service.
No they don't. You're kidding yourself here. People don't give a fuck about top notch service if they can get a product for 99c when another place is selling it for 10 bucks.
It's why Walmart is so successful.
Stop lying to yourself.
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No they don't. You're kidding yourself here. People don't give a fuck about top notch service if they can get a product for 99c when another place is selling it for 10 bucks.
It's why Walmart is so successful.
Stop lying to yourself.
I am speaking for myself and many of the folks I hang with. This is decidedly different from lying to myself.
Let me remind you that were I live, the Walmart neighborhood store is struggling to stay open while the high end Market of Choice needs a bigger parking lot because customers have been flocking there from the day they opened their doors for business.
Some people actually care about quality too. When Walmart starts selling products I normally buy, I will take a second look to see if I can find a bargain. To be honest, in all the years that there have been Walmart big box stores in Portland, I have only gone one once, which was more out of curiosity then anything. I made no purchases because they had nothing of interest to me to buy.
I am not opposed to either big box stores or a good deal. I am a regular shopper at Costco. Their meat and wine selections are top notch. They carry the brand of dog food our dogs like. I've purchased electronics there. The last two times I bought prescription glasses, I got them at Costco. There price on Lucky Brand jeans is excellent. I don't buy home furnishings there, but then I am pretty fussy about these kinds of items. And guess what, they have good deals which don't seem to come off the backs of their employees who are well compensated from what I've heard.
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I am speaking for myself and many of the folks I hang with. This is decidedly different from lying to myself.
Let me remind you that were I live, the Walmart neighborhood store is struggling to stay open while the high end Market of Choice needs a bigger parking lot because customers have been flocking there from the day they opened their doors for business.
Some people actually care about quality too. When Walmart starts selling products I normally buy, I will take a second look to see if I can find a bargain. To be honest, in all the years that there have been Walmart big box stores in Portland, I have only gone one once, which was more out of curiosity then anything. I made no purchases because they had nothing of interest to me to buy.
I am not opposed to either big box stores or a good deal. I am a regular shopper at Costco. Their meat and wine selections are top notch. They carry the brand of dog food our dogs like. I've purchased electronics there. The last two times I bought prescription glasses, I got them at Costco. There price on Lucky Brand jeans is excellent. I don't buy home furnishings there, but then I am pretty fussy about these kinds of items. And guess what, they have good deals which don't seem to come off the backs of their employees who are well compensated from what I've heard.
You said 'most customers', not you and 'many of the folks you hang with'.
I pointed out that 'most customers' aren't there for a chinwag and social time in form of good service, they're there for the best price and cheapest deal.
You don't really get economics do you?
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You said 'most customers', not you and 'many of the folks you hang with'.
I pointed out that 'most customers' aren't there for a chinwag and social time in form of good service, they're there for the best price and cheapest deal.
You don't really get economics do you?
Hey, if cheap crap is your thing, be my guest. Not everyone feels the same way.
Sure everyone likes a good deal. I'd like a good deal on an Audi 3 wagon TDI, not a good deal on a Kia. When I go to Starbucks for a Chai Latte which I could have made at home for pennies on the dollar, I go to Starbucks because the baristas treat me like I am a king....but then, I'm a good tipper.
Based on your economics, all anyone cares about is low prices. News flash, there is a world full of people who shop Saks and Nordstrom's. When I fly to Europe, I fly Lufthansa. They don't have the best price, they have the best service and the most passenger room.
If you like shopping Walmart, have at it. You have lots of company, some of who campout/live in Walmart parking lots. Birds of a feather, flock together, or so the saying goes.
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Hey, if cheap crap is your thing, be my guest. Not everyone feels the same way.
Sure everyone likes a good deal. I'd like a good deal on an Audi 3 wagon TDI, not a good deal on a Kia. When I go to Starbucks for a Chai Latte which I could have made at home for pennies on the dollar, I go to Starbucks because the baristas treat me like I am a king....but then, I'm a good tipper.
Based on your economics, all anyone cares about is low prices. News flash, there is a world full of people who shop Saks and Nordstrom's. When I fly to Europe, I fly Lufthansa. They don't have the best price, they have the best service and the most passenger room.
If you like shopping Walmart, have at it. You have lots of company, some of who campout/live in Walmart parking lots. Birds of a feather, flock together, or so the saying goes.
Interesting. When I fly for more than 4 hours I fly business. I recently flew to New Zealand from London paying just over £5000 ($8000) for my business class seat when I could've gotten it for a grand in economy. What's your point? I came back from China last week flying Virgin Upperclass. What's your point? I'm off to Australia in February flying business again. On this occasion I'll take a picture of business class just for you. Granted, I'm a single guy without kids.
I'm not 100% what you're babbling on about and how this compare to people wanting more than they're worth?
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Interesting. When I fly for more than 4 hours I fly business. I recently flew to New Zealand from London paying just over £5000 ($8000) for my business class seat when I could've gotten it for a grand in economy. What's your point? I came back from China last week flying Virgin Upperclass. What's your point? I'm off to Australia in February flying business again. On this occasion I'll take a picture of business class just for you. Granted, I'm a single guy without kids.
I'm not 100% what you're babbling on about and how this compare to people wanting more than they're worth?
Well then, you managed to totally confuse me. On the one hand, you yak about buying cheap crap at Walmart and then you go on about spending big bucks on plane fare. Incidentally, most folks I know who fly business do so because it is a free upgrade with their frequent flyer miles or they are filthy rich.
My point is that not everyone is looking for a bargain all the time. I would fly first class or business class if I could afford it. Unfortunately, the most I can reasonably afford is to fly with an airline that offers better customer service then some others.
Years ago, on a return trip from a visit to Germany to see our son and family, we were upgraded to first class. It was great! My wife announced to me that we should always fly first class when going this distance. I suggested to her she rob a bank so as to make this possible.
Our granddaughter is getting married next year and has asked us to attend her wedding in Germany. My wife due to her health issues would certainly do much better in first class or even business class....actually a private jet would be the best. Do you have any suggestions as to how we could pull this off on the cheap?
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I'm not 100% what you're babbling on about and how this compare to people wanting more than they're worth?
I am fairly sure the average Walmart sales associate isn't concerned with the price of airfare....maybe more so how the can afford to put gas in their beater in order to get to work or even if they can afford the cost of a bus pass for a month.
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Well then, you managed to totally confuse me. On the one hand, you yak about buying cheap crap at Walmart and then you go on about spending big bucks on plane fare. Incidentally, most folks I know who fly business do so because it is a free upgrade with their frequent flyer miles or they are filthy rich.
My point is that not everyone is looking for a bargain all the time. I would fly first class or business class if I could afford it. Unfortunately, the most I can reasonably afford is to fly with an airline that offers better customer service then some others.
Years ago, on a return trip from a visit to Germany to see our son and family, we were upgraded to first class. It was great! My wife announced to me that we should always fly first class when going this distance. I suggested to her she rob a bank so as to make this possible.
Our granddaughter is getting married next year and has asked us to attend her wedding in Germany. My wife due to her health issues would certainly do much better in first class or even business class....actually a private jet would be the best. Do you have any suggestions as to how we could pull this off on the cheap?
Build a time machine, go back 50 years and get rich? I don't know. I'm single, have disposable income so it's not a massive deal to do so.
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I am fairly sure the average Walmart sales associate isn't concerned with the price of airfare....maybe more so how the can afford to put gas in their beater in order to get to work or even if they can afford the cost of a bus pass for a month.
We're going off topic now. The sales associate could get an education and therefore realistically concern itself with airfares and the advantages of certain airlines over others.
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Build a time machine, go back 50 years and get rich? I don't know. I'm single, have disposable income so it's not a massive deal to do so.
Thanks, but your advice isn't much help. That's okay though. I have a good life even if I can't justify spending the kind of bucks you spend on plane fare. I don't want to go back 50 years. Been there, done that if you get my drift. I live life in the moment.
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We're going off topic now. The sales associate could get an education and therefore realistically concern itself with airfares and the advantages of certain airlines over others.
They certainly could. Of course in the U.S. education isn't free so they might have to give up eating for awhile in order to become better educated. Just saying.
Incidentally, I recently heard that it will cost folks around a million bucks to get a PHD within a couple of years. How many Walmart sales associates do you suppose will be able to achieve this?
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I pointed out that 'most customers' aren't there for a chinwag and social time in form of good service, they're there for the best price and cheapest deal.
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"Chinwag"? At first blush that's about as annoying as "Chopping it up".
Guess it depends on where you're from, though.
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I was oversimplifying to make a point
If a business can operate effectively for less else where, THEY ARE GOING TO DO IT!!!!!
If you can buy the same house for $200K or $250K, which one are you going to pay?
make it cheaper for business to operate here in the US and they will do it
Which works fine if you want lifestyles in the US to emulate those in China.
If all jobs move to China, the companies moving there lose their US sales because no-one in the US can afford to consume their products any more, on account of them being unemployed.
So prices drop, salaries and living standards drop until US employees cost less than Chinese employees. Then the companies will move back (well, actually they will no longer exist).
Simple economics. For sure - one company moving away for lower costs works fine. When everyone does it - you end up with the ghost towns the US has right now.
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Absolutely. If they dont want to accept the $2 then relocate, get mored education , etc.... No company is obligated to take care of an employee. There is no loyalty in either direction. To think that there truly is, is naive.
In the US, what sort of education can you get if you currently earn $2 an hour? None, right? If you are broke, how do you get the funds to relocate?
Getting into debt with banks to give a ludicrous sum of money to a educational establishment so you can get a paper that says you are smart? Fuck that nonsense.
Why is it that people look down on others that have no education or are not academically talented? What is wrong with a hard working family man who is honest and caring but short in school smarts earning a decent wage with his hands?
Isn't America built on the work of people like that? Now they are 'not qualified'?
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The bastards. Man that pisses me off.
Do you know what I'll do if that were me working at Walmart? Wait for it, this is incredible ....;
I'll quit and go elsewhere.
Do you know what I'll do if there weren't any jobs where I live. I'll move. I don't expect to have everything around me, set up for me so I can live where I want.
You people want stuff too easy.
This is so easy to say when it isn't you. I presume also you don't have a family and kids in school.
If you were on $8.88 an hour - what would you expect your savings to be? How would you be able to afford to move? How would you make rental deposit on a new place?
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So let me see here. Company A is selling the same products at the same prices to the same customer base as company B. How is it that company B's operations, expenses are different exactly? Oh that's right, profit margins. Yeah, I guess if you want to make more profits then the next guy, you have to do it on the backs of the employees all other things being equal.
Just so you know, I worked as a home furnishings buyer for a major department store for the better part of twenty years. I was very successful in my job, which means I must have some idea about profit margins, operations and expenses.
apparently not, as what you brought up makes no sense.
Simply b/c a company services the same customer doesnt mean they have the same logistics, the same agreements with suppliers/the same suppliers period, doesnt mean they have the same amount of debt or interest expense they must cover, doesnt mean they have the same terms in payments for suppliers
I could go on and on but I think you really need to learn yourself b/c it seems like you arent willing to take anything from this thread
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Which works fine if you want lifestyles in the US to emulate those in China.
If all jobs move to China, the companies moving there lose their US sales because no-one in the US can afford to consume their products any more, on account of them being unemployed.
So prices drop, salaries and living standards drop until US employees cost less than Chinese employees. Then the companies will move back (well, actually they will no longer exist).
Simple economics. For sure - one company moving away for lower costs works fine. When everyone does it - you end up with the ghost towns the US has right now.
thats why we need to MAKE IT CHEAPER FOR THEM TO DO BUSINESS HERE!!!
I didnt say we need to do this by lowering wages, DID I?
how about corporate tax reform?
how about getting rid of regulations that do add extra costs for companies.
The funny thing is the liberal agenda is typically anti business although at times it is not necissarily the goal but it is the end outcome. Then these same idiots are the ones bitching when businesses take their operations over seas??
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In the US, what sort of education can you get if you currently earn $2 an hour? None, right? If you are broke, how do you get the funds to relocate?
Getting into debt with banks to give a ludicrous sum of money to a educational establishment so you can get a paper that says you are smart? Fuck that nonsense.
Why is it that people look down on others that have no education or are not academically talented? What is wrong with a hard working family man who is honest and caring but short in school smarts earning a decent wage with his hands?
Isn't America built on the work of people like that? Now they are 'not qualified'?
I do look down on people without education WHO FEEL LIKE THEY DESERVE MORE. Again maybe you guys need this drilled into your liberal agenda heads...NOBODY OWES YOU SHIT!!!!
If you feel you arent getting what your worth, do something about it.
I took out loans and went to school at night while working full time. Youre damn right I look down on people who have the ability to do the same thing and dont while still bitching about not making enough money.
ITS THE WAY IT SHOULD BE
Not a damn thing wrong with making a living with your hands. I worked in construction while going to school at night for quite a while.
and this country was also built on free market principles, Low taxation and personal freedoms and responsibility.
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This is so easy to say when it isn't you. I presume also you don't have a family and kids in school.
If you were on $8.88 an hour - what would you expect your savings to be? How would you be able to afford to move? How would you make rental deposit on a new place?
What the fuck does a person making $8.88 an hour have a family and kids for?
DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THIS IS INCREDIBLY IRRESPONIBLE???
The dumb guy cant afford kids!!! why are you not yelling about that???
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thats why we need to MAKE IT CHEAPER FOR THEM TO DO BUSINESS HERE!!!
I didnt say we need to do this by lowering wages, DID I?
how about corporate tax reform?
how about getting rid of regulations that do add extra costs for companies.
The funny thing is the liberal agenda is typically anti business although at times it is not necissarily the goal but it is the end outcome. Then these same idiots are the ones bitching when businesses take their operations over seas??
Tax breaks wont make it cheaper to produce goods in the US than China.
What you need is:
$5 a day wages
No environmental regulations
Rampant corruption
Enjoy that.
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Why is it that people look down on others that have no education or are not academically talented? What is wrong with a hard working family man who is honest and caring but short in school smarts earning a decent wage with his hands?
Honestly I think this goes to the heart of the issue. Decades ago manufacturing was the crux of the US economy but now do the technology and transportation flattening the world the US has outsourced the menial and labor intensive tasks to cheaper more efficient areas of the world. As a result the US economy has become more service based with those with the forsight, ability and work ethic to see the change taking advantage of it and those who dont being relegated to the menial service jobs or the few manufacturing jobs we have left.
The issue as I see it is, many of the people refuse to change, refuse to better themselves and continue to make bad decisions which put them in the situation that spirals down.
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I do look down on people without education WHO FEEL LIKE THEY DESERVE MORE. Again maybe you guys need this drilled into your liberal agenda heads...NOBODY OWES YOU SHIT!!!!
Just as an FYI - this Liberal runs an offshore software development company in Thailand for a multi-national company. I am still able to empathize with people in difficult situations though.
If you feel you arent getting what your worth, do something about it.
I took out loans and went to school at night while working full time. Youre damn right I look down on people who have the ability to do the same thing and dont while still bitching about not making enough money.
ITS THE WAY IT SHOULD BE
Hmmm - the way it should be? Well first of all you would not get a loan if you were earning $2 an hour but second of all there is no free market in the US education system, so you just bent over and did the schools and banks a massive favor. School fees are totally inflated there which of course prevents a lot of people from participating.
Not a damn thing wrong with making a living with your hands. I worked in construction while going to school at night for quite a while.
and this country was also built on free market principles, Low taxation and personal freedoms and responsibility.
Does the free market ensure workers are paid the value of their work or a value defined by the supply and demand of workers in a location?
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Tax breaks wont make it cheaper to produce goods in the US than China.
What you need is:
$5 a day wages
No environmental regulations
Rampant corruption
Enjoy that.
again just absolutely NO FUCKING BUSINESS SENSE!!!!!
you dont have to make is cheaper to produce products here but to OPERATE HERE. I know to a person who doesnt understand the terms or from your posts business in general these seem like the same thing but they arent.
building a product involves simply the Cost of Goods Sold (COGS) in other word direct cost (not to be confused with fixed cost) but the cost of Operations include everything that goes into building that product including overhead.
Overhead that is made more expensive by useless legislation, red tape, costly government processes that require lawyers to interpret and guide a business through.
If you go further down the income statement you will get non operating cost such as overhead, interest, taxes, pay for employees who dont build the product or service the client directly, ever heard of EBIT or EBITDA?
Making the bottom line better can be done many ways in terms of this conversation you can increase "E" or earnings or decrease "IT" interest and taxes.
You see what YOU NEED TO REALLY UNDERSTAND is its not about making it cheaper to produce things in the US, just cheaper to operate in the US.
You also have to remember it costs companies to move operations over seas as well.
Use this formula to get a better grip on it: Staying in the US < Moving entire operations overseas - savings from moving operations over seas
making it cheaper to stay in the US can be done a number of different ways.
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Honestly I think this goes to the heart of the issue. Decades ago manufacturing was the crux of the US economy but now do the technology and transportation flattening the world the US has outsourced the menial and labor intensive tasks to cheaper more efficient areas of the world. As a result the US economy has become more service based with those with the forsight, ability and work ethic to see the change taking advantage of it and those who dont being relegated to the menial service jobs or the few manufacturing jobs we have left.
The issue as I see it is, many of the people refuse to change, refuse to better themselves and continue to make bad decisions which put them in the situation that spirals down.
There is nothing more efficient about manufacturing in China, it is incredibly inefficient. On the bright side, people cost next to nothing and there is little regulatory oversight.
Of course, the downside of this is occasionally workers buildings collapse on them, people have accidents due to lack of safety regulations, people work at slave rates for little more than board & food, young children end up working full time jobs and not getting educated.
Still - it's a free market. Those children could leave the factory and go to school and get an education if they aren't happy.
As for the "service based economy" - how does a country where everyone works in Starbucks maintain any sort of edge? Your 'non location specific' services are all being outsourced now too - call centers, software development, R&D.
Economically, it's suicide. It's like a race to the bottom.
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Just as an FYI - this Liberal runs an offshore software development company in Thailand for a multi-national company. I am still able to empathize with people in difficult situations though.
As am I, that doesnt mean people who have the ability to do better or have made bad choices are my fucking responsibility.
If you feel that way, donate your own fucking money to the cause like I do to causes I am passionate about. You dont see me telling you that people need to donate to wounded vet foundations or organizations for children who have lost loved ones help process their grief, how about the pancreatic cancer organization PANCAN?
Its a fallacy of the left that people who dont feel the way they do are unsympathetic ass holes...::)
Hmmm - the way it should be? Well first of all you would not get a loan if you were earning $2 an hour but second of all there is no free market in the US education system, so you just bent over and did the schools and banks a massive favor. School fees are totally inflated there which of course prevents a lot of people from participating.
Actually you would get a loan, the government itself helps subsidize student loans
http://www.staffordloan.com/stafford-loan-info/government-student-loan.php
I seriously think you have no idea how this shit works, that was a incredibly ignorant statement to make.
I agree I did the banks a big favor, I did it b/c I was bettering myself and now have much more opportunities to make money than before.
SO GUESS WHAT? THEY DID ME A GREAT BIG FAVOR TOO
the banks arent there to just do you favors dumbass, they are there to make money!!!
again NO FUCKING BUSINESS SENSE!!!
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There is nothing more efficient about manufacturing in China, it is incredibly inefficient. On the bright side, people cost next to nothing and there is little regulatory oversight.
Of course, the downside of this is occasionally workers buildings collapse on them, people have accidents due to lack of safety regulations, people work at slave rates for little more than board & food, young children end up working full time jobs and not getting educated.
Still - it's a free market. Those children could leave the factory and go to school and get an education if they aren't happy.
As for the "service based economy" - how does a country where everyone works in Starbucks maintain any sort of edge? Your 'non location specific' services are all being outsourced now too - call centers, software development, R&D.
Economically, it's suicide. It's like a race to the bottom.
if its cheaper to operate in china, is it not more economically efficient?
Im telling you guys NO FUCKING BUSINESS SENSE, I hope you have no responsibilities for the financials of the department you operate
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again just absolutely NO FUCKING BUSINESS SENSE!!!!!
OK - no business sense because I said that tax breaks will not make it cheaper to produce goods in US that China.
Which is bizarre seeing as I have been running a country operation for an MNC for the past 12 years and I also have my own software company in Thailand that sells into the US - and that is doing quite well too!
you dont have to make is cheaper to produce products here but to OPERATE HERE. I know to a person who doesnt understand the terms or from your posts business in general these seem like the same thing but they arent.
Could you rephrase that in English please. Maybe go out & get some fresh air first.
building a product involves simply the Cost of Goods Sold (COGS) in other word direct cost (not to be confused with fixed cost) but the cost of Operations include everything that goes into building that product including overhead.
Overhead that is made more expensive by useless legislation, red tape, costly government processes that require lawyers to interpret and guide a business through.
Correct - and safety regulation, pollution control, child labor laws. People out here are still dying in Asbestos factories.
You might want to hold off on the red tape comments though 'cause you obviously haven't operated a business in Asia. Singapore is very easy but most countries here are a complete nightmare in terms of red tape - absolute minefield. Of course, a lawyer and a little tea money helps.
If you go further down the income statement you will get non operating cost such as overhead, interest, taxes, pay for employees who dont build the product or service the client directly, ever heard of EBIT or EBITDA?
Making the bottom line better can be done many ways in terms of this conversation you can increase "E" or earnings or decrease "IT" interest and taxes.
lol - whose been and read "CPA for dummies". I do understand the numbers, I don't prep the accounts, just sign off on them. I have other people that perform menial tasks like that.
Yes - which proves my point that taxes are only part of the equation. Manufacturing in China adds a lot of cost - logistical, time, scrappage but it is all more that compensated by the fact you can get a Chinese guy to work on $5 a day and if the job gives him cancer in 5 years, you can just get another one.
You see what YOU NEED TO REALLY UNDERSTAND is its not about making it cheaper to produce things in the US, just cheaper to operate in the US.
You also have to remember it costs companies to move operations over seas as well.
Use this formula to get a better grip on it: Staying in the US < Moving entire operations overseas - savings from moving operations over seas
making it cheaper to stay in the US can be done a number of different ways.
Well - seeing as I've helped a number companies move parts of their operation overseas, I can give you some insight. Even as a very ethical employer, the US will simply never be able to compete on a cost basis because right now, the cost of living out here is so low that regardless of what other changes you make, you simply cannot reduce costs to match.
On the upside, salary growth out here is very high on an annual basis but static in the US, so as you find your standard of living dropping, out here it is rising and at some point they will meet in the middle.
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As for the "service based economy" - how does a country where everyone works in Starbucks maintain any sort of edge? Your 'non location specific' services are all being outsourced now too - call centers, software development, R&D.
Economically, it's suicide. It's like a race to the bottom.
you see the economy has become more global again as techonology and transportation have flattened the world.
hahahah oh wow, you do know that barrista and wall mart sales associate arent indicative of all service jobs right?
how about financial services? how about engineering services? Airlines provide a service.
hahahahh
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As am I, that doesnt mean people who have the ability to do better or have made bad choices are my fucking responsibility.
If you feel that way, donate your own fucking money to the cause like I do to causes I am passionate about. You dont see me telling you that people need to donate to wounded vet foundations or organizations for children who have lost loved ones help process their grief, how about the pancreatic cancer organization PANCAN?
What on earth are you talking about.
I pay good wages. I practice what I preach. I pay well, have very loyal staff, low labor turnover and yet am profitable.
As for you giving to charity - how very lovely for you. To me, that's a personal thing. I find it distasteful when people give and need to shout about it.
Actually you would get a loan, the government itself helps subsidize student loans
http://www.staffordloan.com/stafford-loan-info/government-student-loan.php
I seriously think you have no idea how this shit works, that was a incredibly ignorant statement to make.
I agree I did the banks a big favor, I did it b/c I was bettering myself and now have much more opportunities to make money than before.
Correct - the banks have convinced the governments to guarantee the loans. This means you schools can charge what the fuck they want because the loans aren't capped by ability to pay. Then students can renege on the loans with no recourse.
And you, Mr Free Market, think that there is something good about this system? You approve of your tax dollars going to banks and schools but you don't think businesses should pay a living wage. Strange form of capitalism you have going on there.
SO GUESS WHAT? THEY DID ME A GREAT BIG FAVOR TOO
the banks arent there to just do you favors dumbass, they are there to make money!!!
again NO FUCKING BUSINESS SENSE!!!
Correct -the banks are not there to do favors. They are there to make money and how easy that is with your tax dollars ensure they take zero risk on the loans. Tommy McSocialist.
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Go to your local neighborhood small-town non-chain, market, hardware, bookstore, etc; take your pick. How much are they paying an hour? What are the benefit plans they offer their employees:healthcare, retirement? How many people do they employ? What are your chances to work your way up in that local organization? Could you move and get a job with the same organization? and how much does everything cost in those stores are they cheaper? Do they offer the same amount of choices? Are they large investors in alternate energy?
After doing that tell me is Wal-Mart so bad or just the easy target?
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This is so easy to say when it isn't you. I presume also you don't have a family and kids in school.
If you were on $8.88 an hour - what would you expect your savings to be? How would you be able to afford to move? How would you make rental deposit on a new place?
I would never in a trillion years be in the position of having kids and working in a supermarket at the same time. Ever.
So I really never thought about it.
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OK - no business sense because I said that tax breaks will not make it cheaper to produce goods in US that China.
Which is bizarre seeing as I have been running a country operation for an MNC for the past 12 years and I also have my own software company in Thailand that sells into the US - and that is doing quite well too!
Could you rephrase that in English please. Maybe go out & get some fresh air first.
Correct - and safety regulation, pollution control, child labor laws. People out here are still dying in Asbestos factories.
You might want to hold off on the red tape comments though 'cause you obviously haven't operated a business in Asia. Singapore is very easy but most countries here are a complete nightmare in terms of red tape - absolute minefield. Of course, a lawyer and a little tea money helps.
lol - whose been and read "CPA for dummies". I do understand the numbers, I don't prep the accounts, just sign off on them. I have other people that perform menial tasks like that.
Yes - which proves my point that taxes are only part of the equation. Manufacturing in China adds a lot of cost - logistical, time, scrappage but it is all more that compensated by the fact you can get a Chinese guy to work on $5 a day and if the job gives him cancer in 5 years, you can just get another one.
Well - seeing as I've helped a number companies move parts of their operation overseas, I can give you some insight. Even as a very ethical employer, the US will simply never be able to compete on a cost basis because right now, the cost of living out here is so low that regardless of what other changes you make, you simply cannot reduce costs to match.
On the upside, salary growth out here is very high on an annual basis but static in the US, so as you find your standard of living dropping, out here it is rising and at some point they will meet in the middle.
hahah no need to read CPA for dummies although I would encourage you to do some self learning b/c you obviously need it. I worked in accounting/finance while going to school at night for my MBA.
Where did I say that taxes where the only thing that needed to be addressed? I have said the complete opposite as a matter of fact.
Fact of the matter is the US is the biggest economy in the world. If the govt wants to make it where those businesses that operate in the US have an advantage economically over those that dont they could do it without much negative effect.
Companies are vying for our citizens business
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What on earth are you talking about.
I pay good wages. I practice what I preach. I pay well, have very loyal staff, low labor turnover and yet am profitable.
As for you giving to charity - how very lovely for you. To me, that's a personal thing. I find it distasteful when people give and need to shout about it.
yup you cared enough about it to imply that you can sympathize but me by virtue of my stance cannot. I didnt shout about it I used it as an example to dismiss the ignorance in your assumption champ.
Correct - the banks have convinced the governments to guarantee the loans. This means you schools can charge what the fuck they want because the loans aren't capped by ability to pay. Then students can renege on the loans with no recourse.
Actually champ its extremely difficult to reneg on student loans, you are not able to do so even under bankruptcy in the vast majority of situations.
And you, Mr Free Market, think that there is something good about this system? You approve of your tax dollars going to banks and schools but you don't think businesses should pay a living wage. Strange form of capitalism you have going on there.
Correct -the banks are not there to do favors. They are there to make money and how easy that is with your tax dollars ensure they take zero risk on the loans. Tommy McSocialist.
I would much rather pay taxes so others can better themselves than to pay taxes so we can prop up those who make bad decisions and have a deluded sense of self worth.
I guess I would rather see people better themselves and you would rather they just get bailed out of their shitty choices
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hahah no need to read CPA for dummies although I would encourage you to do some self learning b/c you obviously need it. I worked in accounting/finance while going to school at night for my MBA.
Where did I say that taxes where the only thing that needed to be addressed? I have said the complete opposite as a matter of fact.
Fact of the matter is the US is the biggest economy in the world. If the govt wants to make it where those businesses that operate in the US have an advantage economically over those that dont they could do it without much negative effect.
Companies are vying for our citizens business
[/quote]
The US is currently the largest economy in the world but won't be for long.
You have no real idea what is going in in Asia. Not your fault because you probably have no cause to come out here. Fact of the matter is your manufacturing and service jobs are relocating to this side of the world. Your government is powerless to do anything about it. It's the free market in play, nothing you can do about it now but suffer the consequences.
Of course, if you are willing to pay people slave rates, employ children, give workers unsafe places to work with no recourse if they get hurt, to have companies that pollute with impunity, then you will be able to compete. As it is - you simply can't do it.
Of course - people want to sell to America. The US is a consumer culture, add another inch to the size of a TV and everyone rushes out to buy one. It's like throwing a dog a new bone when he's just started chewing the one you gave him 5 minutes earlier.
US corporations have migrated so much wealth to Asia, that US consumers will one day be largely irrelevant.
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You have no real idea what is going in in Asia. Not your fault because you probably have no cause to come out here. Fact of the matter is your manufacturing and service jobs are relocating to this side of the world. Your government is powerless to do anything about it. It's the free market in play, nothing you can do about it now but suffer the consequences.
Of course, if you are willing to pay people slave rates, employ children, give workers unsafe places to work with no recourse if they get hurt, to have companies that pollute with impunity, then you will be able to compete. As it is - you simply can't do it.
Of course - people want to sell to America. The US is a consumer culture, add another inch to the size of a TV and everyone rushes out to buy one. It's like throwing a dog a new bone when he's just started chewing the one you gave him 5 minutes earlier.
US corporations have migrated so much wealth to Asia, that US consumers will one day be largely irrelevant.
fucking A youre a delusional idiot
you just proved my point dumb ass
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Quote from: LurkerNoMore
Good luck with that. He overcompensates by trying to string buzz words together in an attempt to sound witty and knowledgeable which in reality leaves any argument or stance of his with a bigger gap in it than there was before.
Particularly amusing is his habit of trying to reverse your statement back in the form of a rhetorical question in the hopes that you will make his argument for him. Since he isn't exactly sure of what he is trying to say or how to convey it.
that is a great quote,fits tonymctones a tee :D :D :D :D
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fucking A youre a delusional idiot
you just proved my point dumb ass
Tony, pedro1 is not a delusional idiot and neither are you. You're just a little inexperienced compared to him. You'd do well to listen a little more carefully to the things he's saying and, if what he's saying doesn't make sense to you, just ask him questions.
The kind of system you argue for (somewhat idealistically), he SEES, firsthand, everyday in Thailand. There's no welfare in Thailand. You can starve in the street there and those without some kind of non-gov't help do just that.
Open your eyes a little, man. You don't need to change your fundamental beliefs but I think you'd be smart to listen to this guy. Basically, his life experience seems to be much, much, much more broad than yours and, even knowing what little I know about the both of you, I'll bet he knows a lot of shit that would be helpful to you.
Actually, I'm surprised you are arguing with him at all. You and a couple others here, in response to folks complaining about pay for available work, are saying, "Well MOVE then!" and pedro1 is a guy who has successfully done just that.
You know, it doesn't necessarily mean he's happier than you but I'll bet you a zillion dollars that pedro1's lifestyle in Thailand makes yours in Texas look, uh (and I'll try to be accurate without insult here), unsatisfying.
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Quote from: LurkerNoMore
Good luck with that. He overcompensates by trying to string buzz words together in an attempt to sound witty and knowledgeable which in reality leaves any argument or stance of his with a bigger gap in it than there was before.
Particularly amusing is his habit of trying to reverse your statement back in the form of a rhetorical question in the hopes that you will make his argument for him. Since he isn't exactly sure of what he is trying to say or how to convey it.
that is a great quote,fits tonymctones a tee :D :D :D :D
Fuckin' yikes!! Note to self: Don't get into it with LurkerNoMore!!
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So you DON'T think the politicians we elect work for us? You think it's the other way around?
You DON'T think the govt is too big?
You DON'T think you can make your own decisions and care for yourself better than some govt hacks who don't give a shit about you can?
You DON'T believe in states' rights?
These are the exact things I said I support in my post you quoted, and you are saying that I'm a "Fox Sheep" for supporting exactly what the Founding Fathers supported.
Please explain further.
The FOX New's sheep have spoken.
It is quite amusing to read some of the posts on Getbig which are pretty much verbatim what FOX News reports all day and all night long.
Keith Rupert Murdoch is the owner of FOX News.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rupert_Murdoch
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I write, call, and talk to my elected officials in person fairly often. Sometimes they help me out, sometimes they can't. And I ALWAYS vote.
But they work FOR me.
And again, the government is FAR too big and intrusive these days, something that some elected officials actually recognize.
I think it is time for you to log off. Your posts are bordering on the ridiculous at this point. No one made the comparison you suggested here. One thing has virtually nothing to do with the other.
What I find all to often is that the folks who do the most griping about big government or just government in general, take no active stance to change what they don't like. In fact, many don't even bother to vote and often they are the very people who are the most vocal about election results. Seems pretty stupid to me.
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Here they've only been using the IRS to audit us, and they've also occasionally tried to put a few members of the media in jail so far - I guess they're a few years away from making peaceful protest a capital crime. ;D
Ever notice how sensitive the POTUS seems to be to criticism or any dissenting opinion?
You speak of the U.S. government as if it were some dictatorship. Government in the U.S. is a government of the people, by the people and for the people. Nothing happens without our input at some point. If you don't like the way government is operating, lobby and vote to change it. There are many places around the world where this is not a possibility without risking death. Think about that.
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If you don't like Walmart or don't approve of their perfectly legal practices you see as being unethical or whatever, don't shop there or work there.
You cannot expect businesses to be forced to cut out a larger and larger piece of the pie for workers' wages and salaries at the expense of profit.
I mentioned previously that I rarely shop at Walmart myself. I usually prefer to go to the stores that have less crowded parking lots, smaller and cleaner stores, higher quality employees, much higher quality meats and seafood, etc. And I'm willing to pay for these things.
But Walmart's base is the shopper who is strictly looking for everything under one roof and ESPECIALLY at the lowest price... and is willing to fight heavy shopping center traffic, wait a while for a parking spot or walk a great distance, walk all over a large warehouse-like building to find what they need, not need much in the way of employee assistance (such as cutting, slicing, or grinding fresh meats), and be able to wait in line for 15 minutes or more at one of only a half dozen open registers (of 3 dozen or more total), etc.
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In the US, what sort of education can you get if you currently earn $2 an hour? None, right? If you are broke, how do you get the funds to relocate?
Getting into debt with banks to give a ludicrous sum of money to a educational establishment so you can get a paper that says you are smart? Fuck that nonsense.
Why is it that people look down on others that have no education or are not academically talented? What is wrong with a hard working family man who is honest and caring but short in school smarts earning a decent wage with his hands?
Isn't America built on the work of people like that? Now they are 'not qualified'?
People talk about education being the be all end all if you want to make a decent living. They say this because this is what they've been told. I have nothing against people becoming better educated, but a good education does not guarantee one will make better wages. Ambition plays a much bigger role in success than anything else. Without ambition, education may not get you anywhere unless you just happen to hit the employment jackpot which is about as likely as winning the lottery.
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I would never in a trillion years be in the position of having kids and working in a supermarket at the same time. Ever.
So I really never thought about it.
You think this could never happen, but it does and could to you as well.
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Education is somewhat overrated IMO. I'm all about the $. I don't care about intellectual masturbation, spiritual enlightenment, or trying to impress people with a bunch of fancy credentials.
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So you DON'T think the politicians we elect work for us? You think it's the other way around?
You DON'T think the govt is too big?
You DON'T think you can make your own decisions and care for yourself better than some govt hacks who don't give a shit about you can?
You DON'T believe in states' rights?
These are the exact things I said I support in my post you quoted, and you are saying that I'm a "Fox Sheep" for supporting exactly what the Founding Fathers supported.
Please explain further.
Ah yes, the Founding Father's line. As if the U.S. is the same country it was in 1776.
And you don't see how you echo the concepts of FOX News? Hmm. Strange.
By the way, you might want to reread your post I quoted....your rewrite of it is, well, just a tad off.
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Ah yes, the Founding Father's line. As if the U.S. is the same country it was in 1776.
And you don't see how you echo the concepts of FOX News? Hmm. Strange.
By the way, you might want to reread your post I quoted....your rewrite of it is, well, just a tad off.
*EDIT: "Fox News SHEEP" is what you called me...
You told me I was a Fox mark for what I posted. I asked you specifically about what of each of those things make me such.
Now you're saying that anyone who believes in what the Founding Fathers believed is also a Fox mark. And you're also implying that if Fox agrees with it or promotes it, it's a negative thing, correct? The US WAS much the same country for 200+ years, but is certainly "changing" in recent years.
I'll ask you specifically what you disagree with that the Fouding Fathers put in place and why?
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If you don't like Walmart or don't approve of their perfectly legal practices you see as being unethical or whatever, don't shop there or work there.
For a company that you say operates within the law, they certain do have a large number of lawsuits filed against them.
http://nypost.com/2013/11/18/labor-relations-board-considers-walmart-lawsuit/
http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/leading-edge-legal-advice-everyday-matters/2013/jun/2/suing-wal-mart-suing-city-hall-its-almost-impossib/
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=87844&page=1
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/22/walmart-lawsuit-idUSL1E8LMCTE20121022
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/02/walmart-overtime-labor-department-settlement_n_1470543.html
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-04-24/wal-mart-bribe-probe-follows-decade-of-sex-bias-overtime-suits.html
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*EDIT: "Fox News SHEEP" is what you called me...
You told me I was a Fox mark for what I posted. I asked you specifically about what of each of those things make me such.
Now you're saying that anyone who believes in what the Founding Fathers believed is also a Fox mark. And you're also implying that if Fox agrees with it or promotes it, it's a negative thing, correct? The US WAS much the same country for 200+ years, but is certainly "changing" in recent years.
I'll ask you specifically what you disagree with that the Fouding Fathers put in place and why?
Before you further convolute my posts, I thought it best to put up the original post you seem to have taken personally.
The FOX New's sheep have spoken.
It is quite amusing to read some of the posts on Getbig which are pretty much verbatim what FOX News reports all day and all night long.
Keith Rupert Murdoch is the owner of FOX News.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rupert_Murdoch
Actually I did not tell you that you were a FOX mark at all. You took what I posted personally. I merely used some of what you'd posted as an example of things one frequently hears if they follow FOX news. You also assume that I disagree with what FOX News broadcasts, yet nowhere did I post that this was the case.
You will notice the first and second sentences refer to sheep and people in the plural and therefore were not directed at just one person as you imagined.
As for the Founding Father's spiel, I also did not say I disagreed with the principles upon which the U.S. founded. I stated that the U.S. is not the same place it was 200 years ago.
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Tony, pedro1 is not a delusional idiot and neither are you. You're just a little inexperienced compared to him. You'd do well to listen a little more carefully to the things he's saying and, if what he's saying doesn't make sense to you, just ask him questions.
The kind of system you argue for (somewhat idealistically), he SEES, firsthand, everyday in Thailand. There's no welfare in Thailand. You can starve in the street there and those without some kind of non-gov't help do just that.
Open your eyes a little, man. You don't need to change your fundamental beliefs but I think you'd be smart to listen to this guy. Basically, his life experience seems to be much, much, much more broad than yours and, even knowing what little I know about the both of you, I'll bet he knows a lot of shit that would be helpful to you.
Actually, I'm surprised you are arguing with him at all. You and a couple others here, in response to folks complaining about pay for available work, are saying, "Well MOVE then!" and pedro1 is a guy who has successfully done just that.
You know, it doesn't necessarily mean he's happier than you but I'll bet you a zillion dollars that pedro1's lifestyle in Thailand makes yours in Texas look, uh (and I'll try to be accurate without insult here), unsatisfying.
Tommy is quoting accounting terms and thinking that means business. I find that most bizarre.
Business is not accountancy. Business is about making money and of course, there's all sorts of factors involved in how you make money offshore.
Bottom line though is the accountants job is to represent business activity in a common format. There is a fair amount of leeway in how this is done and there's often a little 'juggling around' at the end of each month/quarter. People like me are mostly involved at month/quarter end looking at the final numbers and making sure the accountants didn't put anything majorly in the wrong place. Similarly, running up to year end we want to see how the final numbers are shaping up so we can possibly bring stuff forward/push it back.
CFOs tend to be very savvy but their team of accountants aren't called 'bean counters' for nothing. They do play a vital role but they aren't business people and never will be. They are number savants that play a vital role but often can't see past their own noses.
So accountancy - naaaa - that's not business. Accountancy is what happens after business has been done. Funnily enough - we don't even do the bulk of our accounting in my organisation, we outsource the nuts & bolts stuff.
Partly because it's an easy task to outsource and partly because when you run a company for an MNC AND you are the person who is signatory on the bank accounts - it's good to keep arms length on the accounting side for transparency.
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People talk about education being the be all end all if you want to make a decent living. They say this because this is what they've been told. I have nothing against people becoming better educated, but a good education does not guarantee one will make better wages. Ambition plays a much bigger role in success than anything else. Without ambition, education may not get you anywhere unless you just happen to hit the employment jackpot which is about as likely as winning the lottery.
I was lucky to have left school at 18 in 1988.
I have no degree but landed a graduates job. I was lucky in that this was not unusual at the time.
I think where you end up with is a little luck, a little bit of smarts and as you say drive and ambition.
I'm not sure how things would play out if I did it again and was 18 in 2013.
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Tony, pedro1 is not a delusional idiot and neither are you. You're just a little inexperienced compared to him. You'd do well to listen a little more carefully to the things he's saying and, if what he's saying doesn't make sense to you, just ask him questions.
The kind of system you argue for (somewhat idealistically), he SEES, firsthand, everyday in Thailand. There's no welfare in Thailand. You can starve in the street there and those without some kind of non-gov't help do just that.
Open your eyes a little, man. You don't need to change your fundamental beliefs but I think you'd be smart to listen to this guy. Basically, his life experience seems to be much, much, much more broad than yours and, even knowing what little I know about the both of you, I'll bet he knows a lot of shit that would be helpful to you.
Actually, I'm surprised you are arguing with him at all. You and a couple others here, in response to folks complaining about pay for available work, are saying, "Well MOVE then!" and pedro1 is a guy who has successfully done just that.
You know, it doesn't necessarily mean he's happier than you but I'll bet you a zillion dollars that pedro1's lifestyle in Thailand makes yours in Texas look, uh (and I'll try to be accurate without insult here), unsatisfying.
where am I arguing for a system like in thailand?
for fucks sake do you two not see that there are plenty of other opportunities in the US for people who want to make more money?
To even compare the two situations is just plain STUPID, there is no other way to describe it.
The people here in the US have the opportunity to go to school if they want, they have to ability to go down the street and get a better paying job, they have the ability to start a business of their own and make as much or as little as they can.
If pedro can better his life, why cant the people working at wal mart.
A satisfying lifestyle is subjective to the individual, personally you couldnt pay me enough to move to thailand but thats just me. I have a great life here in Texas and bright future so I would say I am just as satisfied if not more so than pedro.
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Tommy is quoting accounting terms and thinking that means business. I find that most bizarre.
Business is not accountancy. Business is about making money and of course, there's all sorts of factors involved in how you make money offshore.
Bottom line though is the accountants job is to represent business activity in a common format. There is a fair amount of leeway in how this is done and there's often a little 'juggling around' at the end of each month/quarter. People like me are mostly involved at month/quarter end looking at the final numbers and making sure the accountants didn't put anything majorly in the wrong place. Similarly, running up to year end we want to see how the final numbers are shaping up so we can possibly bring stuff forward/push it back.
CFOs tend to be very savvy but their team of accountants aren't called 'bean counters' for nothing. They do play a vital role but they aren't business people and never will be. They are number savants that play a vital role but often can't see past their own noses.
So accountancy - naaaa - that's not business. Accountancy is what happens after business has been done. Funnily enough - we don't even do the bulk of our accounting in my organisation, we outsource the nuts & bolts stuff.
Partly because it's an easy task to outsource and partly because when you run a company for an MNC AND you are the person who is signatory on the bank accounts - it's good to keep arms length on the accounting side for transparency.
hahahah again you speak like a line manager would.
no business sense
let me get this straight, you work for a MNC and outsource your accounting and finance?
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The "bean counters" have been roasted in the autobiographies of many greats of the business world. Many a great businessman have not been fans of the bean counters, who tell them to save more and cut corners when they want to spend or even borrow more on sales and marketing, expansions, R&D, etc. But they do realize the necessity of the bean counters at the end of the day.
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The "bean counters" have been roasted in the autobiographies of many greats of the business world. Many a great businessman have not been fans of the bean counters, who tell them to save more and cut corners when they want to spend or even borrown more on sales and marketing, expansions, R&D, etc. But they do realize the necessity of the bean counters at the end of the day.
not to mention that most CEO's have a background or at least a very fine understanding of the language of business that is accounting.
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Direct quote:
The FOX New's sheep have spoken.
It is quite amusing to read some of the posts on Getbig which are pretty much verbatim what FOX News reports all day and all night long.
Keith Rupert Murdoch is the owner of FOX News.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rupert_Murdoch
You called me a "Fox News Sheep", which I would assume IS an insult - a weak and typical one, but a definite jab nonetheless.
As for the rest, I already am familiar with Murdoch, but thank you.
Before you further convolute my posts, I thought it best to put up the original post you seem to have taken personally.
Actually I did not tell you that you were a FOX mark at all. You took what I posted personally. I merely used some of what you'd posted as an example of things one frequently hears if they follow FOX news. You also assume that I disagree with what FOX News broadcasts, yet nowhere did I post that this was the case.
You will notice the first and second sentences refer to sheep and people in the plural and therefore were not directed at just one person as you imagined.
As for the Founding Father's spiel, I also did not say I disagreed with the principles upon which the U.S. founded. I stated that the U.S. is not the same place it was 200 years ago.
And of course America has been "fundamentlly changed" in the last 5-6 years. ::)
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I was lucky to have left school at 18 in 1988.
I have no degree but landed a graduates job. I was lucky in that this was not unusual at the time.
I think where you end up with is a little luck, a little bit of smarts and as you say drive and ambition.
I'm not sure how things would play out if I did it again and was 18 in 2013.
so you agree in most cases these individuals who are working at walmart could make more if they wanted to?
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hahahah again you speak like a line manager would.
no business sense
let me get this straight, you work for a MNC and outsource your accounting and finance?
Correct - I run an operation offshore for an MNC.
Our direct parent company do not outsource their accounting, it's something we do locally for our accounts. It's pretty common, been doing it this way for 12 years. It's all down to how complex your financials are and how many transactions you process. We provide services, mostly on long term contracts and so actual number of transactions is quite low.
A full time accountant would be twiddling their thumbs a lot of the time. Then you get into the fact this is Thailand, the laws and paperwork are quite tricky. The firm we use are all ex-KPMG consultants who I can rely on to get it right and keep me out of jail.
As I mentioned - the other side of this is the fact that I report P&L but operationally, they leave me to it. I sign the checks, I decide which suppliers to use. By separating the accounting function, there's an extra layer of checks & balances there. This was my decision because I'd rather have that separated so that I can't get accused of anything irregular.
An accountant might not understand why this is the smart thing to do.
Accounts for an MNC subsidary are fairly easy to prepare too - it's just a matter of reporting in the format you get handed down from HQ but then also ensure in the process you aren't reporting in such a way that is looked down upon locally. So it's mostly only new types of product or types transactions you've never done before that really require any attention.
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The "bean counters" have been roasted in the autobiographies of many greats of the business world. Many a great businessman have not been fans of the bean counters, who tell them to save more and cut corners when they want to spend or even borrow more on sales and marketing, expansions, R&D, etc. But they do realize the necessity of the bean counters at the end of the day.
I do agree, they are absolutely necessary.
Same for the legal people - everything needs to go by them but as someone who is quite aggressive, it gets frustrating because they do seem to slow things down.
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Correct - I run an operation offshore for an MNC.
Our direct parent company do not outsource their accounting, it's something we do locally for our accounts. It's pretty common, been doing it this way for 12 years. It's all down to how complex your financials are and how many transactions you process. We provide services, mostly on long term contracts and so actual number of transactions is quite low.
A full time accountant would be twiddling their thumbs a lot of the time. Then you get into the fact this is Thailand, the laws and paperwork are quite tricky. The firm we use are all ex-KPMG consultants who I can rely on to get it right and keep me out of jail.
As I mentioned - the other side of this is the fact that I report P&L but operationally, they leave me to it. I sign the checks, I decide which suppliers to use. By separating the accounting function, there's an extra layer of checks & balances there. This was my decision because I'd rather have that separated so that I can't get accused of anything irregular.
An accountant might not understand why this is the smart thing to do.
Accounts for an MNC subsidary are fairly easy to prepare too - it's just a matter of reporting in the format you get handed down from HQ but then also ensure in the process you aren't reporting in such a way that is looked down upon locally. So it's mostly only new types of product or types transactions you've never done before that really require any attention.
hahaha the reason its fairly easy is b/c those bean counters you like to say dont understand business made it so. Accounting for a multi national company is anything but easy my friend. The fact you think its easy is a testament to the accounting and finance departments in your company.
You should thank them....
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I was lucky to have left school at 18 in 1988.
I have no degree but landed a graduates job. I was lucky in that this was not unusual at the time.
I think where you end up with is a little luck, a little bit of smarts and as you say drive and ambition.
I'm not sure how things would play out if I did it again and was 18 in 2013.
I suspect it would be a bit harder to achieve what you have with only a high school education, but not impossible. Unfortunately, a Bachelor's degree is about equivalent to what a high school diploma was a few decades back. Soon one will need a master's degree to pump gas! Snide remarks aside, many employers require college degrees when they serve no real purpose other than to narrow the pool of potential employees. The educational systems in the U.S. do a piss poor job of preparing folks for a viable career. A variety of technical training programs are lacking in high school and college. Fathers don't pass their skills and trades to their children as much as they once did.
As I mentioned, my stepdad's formal education ended at the 8th grade which was not at all uncommon in his time (before WWII). My mom came from a reasonably well off family. Her father was a Harvard Law graduate, licensed to practice law in all the states. My mom graduated high school and then went on to "finishing school" which was also pretty common for young women in those days. Although I come from a well educated family on both the paternal and maternal sides, I only dabbled in higher education myself....taking courses which interested me with no regard to achieving a degree. I have continued my education all of my adult life. My biological father was college educated in structural engineering. There is some disagreement as to whether he had a degree in structural engineering or not. Sadly, he was no were near as successful as was my stepdad if you measure success in terms of income and owning your own business.
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Direct quote:
You called me a "Fox News Sheep", which I would assume IS an insult - a weak and typical one, but a definite jab nonetheless.
As for the rest, I already am familiar with Murdoch, but thank you.
And of course America has been "fundamentlly changed" in the last 5-6 years. ::)
So are you saying the U.S. didn't fundamentally change in the first 232 years following the end of the Revolutionary war? Hmm. That's pretty interesting. I am not sure you are going to fine a lot of intelligent people who will agree with you.
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hahaha the reason its fairly easy is b/c those bean counters you like to say dont understand business made it so. Accounting for a multi national company is anything but easy my friend. The fact you think its easy is a testament to the accounting and finance departments in your company.
You should thank them....
Actually, the financials for the subsidiary of an MNC are no more complex than a stand-alone company. All you have in effect is a pre-defined chart of accounts and set of reports to compile and send upstream at agreed intervals. The only headache if any is ensuring you also comply with local regulations but as most countries comply follow GAAP, it's mostly all figured out in year 1. Consolidating that upstream is the headache.
The problem now in this discussion, is that it has resorted to you attempting to 'score points' over me. Why that is, I'm not sure. I imagine something I said earlier on got to you in some way. Now you are desperately trying to twist my replies to make yourself look clever.
You seem to be quite the big businessman/CPA. Surely such people are quite secure in their own skin, no?
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Actually, the financials for the subsidiary of an MNC are no more complex than a stand-alone company. All you have in effect is a pre-defined chart of accounts and set of reports to compile and send upstream at agreed intervals. The only headache if any is ensuring you also comply with local regulations but as most countries comply follow GAAP, it's mostly all figured out in year 1. Consolidating that upstream is the headache.
The problem now in this discussion, is that it has resorted to you attempting to 'score points' over me. Why that is, I'm not sure. I imagine something I said earlier on got to you in some way. Now you are desperately trying to twist my replies to make yourself look clever.
You seem to be quite the big businessman/CPA. Surely such people are quite secure in their own skin, no?
hhaha only trying to correct your ignorance and most MNC use IFRS not GAAP and more and more are transferring by the year.
You see you must report to every country you have operations that is more than simply rolling up the divisions into the parent company.
again not trying to score points only show that the ignorance you have and get you to try and fix it.
id be more than glad to continue displaying your ignorance on the topic of the thread though.
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Ill just leave this here, I think this thinking is very prevelant in many of those liberals in this thread. Try not to let who said it cloud you to the very real truth of the statement
"the soft bigotry of low expectations. You’re talking about how liberals look at certain people and think they don’t have chance, for whatever reason. They’re minorities, skin color, they just don’t have a chance. Liberals don’t have faith in ‘em. Liberals need to help them. And then, when liberals help them, that means liberals are good people."
limbaugh
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Ill just leave this here, I think this thinking is very prevelant in many of those liberals in this thread. Try not to let who said it cloud you to the very real truth of the statement
"the soft bigotry of low expectations. You’re talking about how liberals look at certain people and think they don’t have chance, for whatever reason. They’re minorities, skin color, they just don’t have a chance. Liberals don’t have faith in ‘em. Liberals need to help them. And then, when liberals help them, that means liberals are good people."
limbaugh
Ninja, please.
I wonder how much belief and faith that hypocritical fat fuck had in the Dominican prostitutes he was banging over there (with the help of the viagra that he didn't have a prescription for)?
Funny, though, normally I'd assume Rush is knowledgeable when it comes to bigotry. Why did he have to resign from his Monday Night Football commentating gig again?
Anyway, forgetting that Rush was the author of that quote:
That all systems favor some and are slanted against others seems inarguable to me. Liberals recognize this, it's true.
As I understand it, though, the amount of help that many liberals are in favor of giving the least among us in an effort to level the playing field is redonkulous when compared to the "help" being unnecessarily given to the biggest financial and military/industrial companies.
Getting so many to focus on scrutinizing the little help being given the poor while the rich make out like bandits is some sleight of hand bullshit that I'm not falling for. No thanks.
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limbaugh
It is said a picture is worth a thousand words....in this case it is the name of a specific person.
Nothing else needs be said. You just said it all....Limbaugh. LOL!
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So are you saying the U.S. didn't fundamentally change in the first 232 years following the end of the Revolutionary war? Hmm. That's pretty interesting. I am not sure you are going to fine a lot of intelligent people who will agree with you.
"Fundamentally transforming the United States of America!"
Obama used those exact words in front of the whole world just before he was elected the first time.
Now we're seeing it become the thing among so many "progressives" (most obviously the president and his hacks like Holder) to go out of their way to walk all over the constitution, act unilaterally, show disregard or even contempt for the Founding Fathers and the core principals the country was founded on, etc...
Increased spending and entitlements. Socialized medicine. Chicago style crony capitalism and political thuggery - cooking the books on important financial data just before an election; using the attorney general and IRS to target political dissenters; wasting huge sums of tax dollars to bankroll doomed "green energy" companies of cronies while seemingly trying to destroy coal and oil industries, etc, etc.
They've even re-hired the obamacare failed website hacks to do MORE work for the government. You can't make this stuff up!
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Wal-mart receives subsidies and tax breaks to utilize there business. It's like saying there's no jobs, your argument would be, work hard, get an education, you act as if everything is fair and comes down to personal effort, that is so far removed from reality it's not funny. YOu have PHD's out of work while Wal-mart pays an effective tax rate of zero raping the taxpayers who pay for the roads and infrastructure they utilize.
Life's not fair, natural selection is obsolete for humans, we have bypassed it.
Walmart gives way more than it receives. They paid $7.98 billion in taxes in 2012. Fifth most of any company in the U.S.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2013/03/17/companies-paying-highest-income-taxes/1991313/
I've asked this question a few times in this thread, but what is your solution to what you think is a company that makes too much money for your liking? Pass a law forcing them to surrender their profits?
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Walmart gives way more than it receives. They paid $7.98 billion in taxes in 2012. Fifth most of any company in the U.S.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2013/03/17/companies-paying-highest-income-taxes/1991313/
I've asked this question a few times in this thread, but what is your solution to what you think is a company that makes too much money for your liking? Pass a law forcing them to surrender their profits?
That 7 billion dollar is piss in a bucket compared to all of the benefits needed by workers with low pay...welfare, food stamps, reduced housing...etc. Wal-Mart makes billions and saves billions by making their workers depend on the government with low pay and less hours
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That 7 billion dollar is piss in a bucket compared to all of the benefits needed by workers with low pay...welfare, food stamps, reduced housing...etc. Wal-Mart makes billions and saves billions by making their workers depend on the government with low pay and less hours
"I've asked this question a few times in this thread, but what is your solution to what you think is a company that makes too much money for your liking? Pass a law forcing them to surrender their profits?"
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We need MORE JOBS! And to have more jobs, we need an environment conducive to economic growth - competition, low corporate taxes, less govt regulations and red tape, not having burdens like Obamacare, etc. If there are more companies starting up, succeeding, and growing, we will have more jobs. If we have more companies with more jobs for workers, companies (including Walmart) will have to pay workers more to attract and retain them. And even if Walmart itself grows to the point where it needs more workers and its workforce demand starts to outpace the workforce supply, they will have to pay more to lure new hires away from elsewhere.
If there are fewer jobs available and workforce supply exceeds workforce demand, employers can generally get away with paying workers no more than they have to. And when government gets its hands in there too much, businesses have to cut and eventually may end up leaving and going elsewhere.
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"I've asked this question a few times in this thread, but what is your solution to what you think is a company that makes too much money for your liking? Pass a law forcing them to surrender their profits?"
No, they simply need to quit mooching off the government to provide for their workers. A good portion of their profits come from your tax dollars and I don't think that's right. They need to have their tax breaks removed and give a bit more back to their employees so they can live......having a canned food drive for their employees is shitty
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No, they simply need to quit mooching off the government to provide for their workers. A good portion of their profits come from your tax dollars and I don't think that's right. They need to have their tax breaks removed and give a bit more back to their employees so they can live......having a canned food drive for their employees is shitty
I'm not sure why they are getting subsidies, and without knowing more I don't with agree with giving them subsidies, but they return that money to the government many times over through their billions in taxes, and through the payroll taxes their employees pay.
How do a good portion of their profits come from our tax dollars?
What happens if they don't give a bit more back to their employees?
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That 7 billion dollar is piss in a bucket compared to all of the benefits needed by workers with low pay...welfare, food stamps, reduced housing...etc. Wal-Mart makes billions and saves billions by making their workers depend on the government with low pay and less hours
Whoa....
How do you know this?
I do not agree with worker exploitation - but where are your numbers that show Wal Mart employees cost the state more than 7 billion dollars?
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Walmart gives way more than it receives. They paid $7.98 billion in taxes in 2012. Fifth most of any company in the U.S.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2013/03/17/companies-paying-highest-income-taxes/1991313/
I've asked this question a few times in this thread, but what is your solution to what you think is a company that makes too much money for your liking? Pass a law forcing them to surrender their profits?
You didn't ask me, but here's my opinion anyway; Walmart should not have to surrender their excessive profits. Walmart is the "whipping boy" for all businesses who make profits using dubious means, such as not paying employees competitively and sometimes breaking labor laws to save a few more bucks for their share holders. Walmart is huge. They have been frequently sued by employees and the government for unfair labor practices. This puts them in the spotlight (media) more so than other smaller companies which have done as bad or worse in terms of following labor laws and paying people fairly. When someone wants to give an example of unethical business practices, Walmart is a an easy target. Unfortunately, Walmart has a lot of company.....we just don't hear as much about other similar operations.
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You didn't ask me, but here's my opinion anyway; Walmart should not have to surrender their excessive profits. Walmart is the "whipping boy" for all businesses who make profits using dubious means, such as not paying employees competitively and sometimes breaking labor laws to save a few more bucks for their share holders. Walmart is huge. They have been frequently sued by employees and the government for unfair labor practices. This puts them in the spotlight (media) more so than other smaller companies which have done as bad or worse in terms of following labor laws and paying people fairly. When someone wants to give an example of unethical business practices, Walmart is a an easy target. Unfortunately, Walmart has a lot of company.....we just don't hear as much about other similar operations.
Thanks for responding. It's easy to complain. Much harder to talk about solutions.
I don't have a problem with any company paying "low" wages, so long as they are following the law. If a Walmart employee doesn't think they are being paid enough, he or she should find another job. None of them are slaves.
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Whoa....
How do you know this?
I do not agree with worker exploitation - but where are your numbers that show Wal Mart employees cost the state more than 7 billion dollars?
You would have to work for Walmart to understand. I worked there as an Inventory Control Specialist for a brutal year and a half unloading trucks and counting stock after I was laid off from Alltel when I moved to Sylva....only job I could find on short notice and I had to pay off my outstanding debt fast
I was paid a lousy 7.40/hr and was promised 40 hours a week but that eventually turned into about 20-30 hours a week. In addition, the hours were so random that you simply could not get a second job to make ends meet. I got a 5% discount on everything in Walmart EXCEPT GROCERIES making it practically useless. So you do the math....If I worked a max of 30 hours then I made $11,544 a year and that was BEFORE TAXES.....after taxes I was lucky to get about 8000 bucks.
The biggest thing was that surprised me was that the Human Resources personnel on orientation day handed me all the government forms I needed to fill out for food stamps, assisted living, reduced rent, etc. In other words, the COUNT on the government to bail them out for their shit wages and standard of living. I rejected it of course because I still had my business and I'd rather work my way out of debt than accept government assistance.
There's nothing wrong with profit....however making more money by using the government benefits to your advantage is just wrong
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You would have to work for Walmart to understand. I worked there as an Inventory Control Specialist for a brutal year and a half unloading trucks and counting stock after I was laid off from Alltel when I moved to Sylva....only job I could find on short notice and I had to pay off my outstanding debt fast
I was paid a lousy 7.40/hr and was promised 40 hours a week but that eventually turned into about 20-30 hours a week. In addition, the hours were so random that you simply could not get a second job to make ends meet. I got a 5% discount on everything in Walmart EXCEPT GROCERIES making it practically useless. So you do the math....If I worked a max of 30 hours then I made $11,544 a year and that was BEFORE TAXES.....after taxes I was lucky to get about 8000 bucks.
The biggest thing was that surprised me was that the Human Resources personnel on orientation day handed me all the government forms I needed to fill out for food stamps, assisted living, reduced rent, etc. In other words, the COUNT on the government to bail them out for their shit wages and standard of living. I rejected it of course because I still had my business and I'd rather work my way out of debt than accept government assistance.
There's nothing wrong with profit....however making more money by using the government benefits to your advantage is just wrong
You should have found another job or not worked there in the first place.
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You should have found another job or not worked there in the first place.
Sylva is a small town.. . Beggars cant be choosers. Once I got my PT business going I left. I have no regrets because I never took a dime of government assistance.
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Sylva is a small town.. . Beggars cant be choosers. Once I got my PT business going I left. I have no regrets because I never took a dime of government assistance.
I can respect that. Kudos.
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Thanks for responding. It's easy to complain. Much harder to talk about solutions.
I don't have a problem with any company paying "low" wages, so long as they are following the law. If a Walmart employee doesn't think they are being paid enough, he or she should find another job. None of them are slaves.
Apparently, Walmart doesn't follow the law. They've lost some of the lawsuits filed against them. As for finding another job, if one doesn't like working there, I am sure many do. I bet the employee turnover at Walmart is very high.
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You would have to work for Walmart to understand.
Err... no...
You said that WalMarts tax contribution was less than the amount it costs the goverment in welfare handouts.
That's math. Show us the numbers you base your claims on.
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Err... no...
You said that WalMarts tax contribution was less than the amount it costs the goverment in welfare handouts.
That's math. Show us the numbers you base your claims on.
You don't get it do you. Walmart intentionally gets its workers on government assistance so they can keep paying them low and keeping the hours low.....otherwise as Beach Bum would state, they would go out and find another higher paying job or they would be forced to raise wages to keep people employed. .....that's how Walmart works.
Walmart isn't the only company that's doing it. McDonald's, Target, and other companies are getting into the habit of it as well. Give low wages, low amount of hours, and get them on government assistance, food stamps, Obamaphones, etc so they'll stay longer. They are using government dependence as part of the bottom line and to supplement workers pay.
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You don't get it do you. Walmart intentionally gets its workers on government assistance so they can keep paying them low and keeping the hours low.....otherwise as Beach Bum would state, they would go out and find another higher paying job or they would be forced to raise wages to keep people employed. .....that's how Walmart works.
Walmart isn't the only company that's doing it. McDonald's, Target, and other companies are getting into the habit of it as well. Give low wages, low amount of hours, and get them on government assistance, food stamps, Obamaphones, etc so they'll stay longer. They are using government dependence as part of the bottom line and to supplement workers pay.
Where are the numbers that show the amount of government assistance employees get is greater than their tax burden?
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You don't get it do you. Walmart intentionally gets its workers on government assistance so they can keep paying them low and keeping the hours low.....otherwise as Beach Bum would state, they would go out and find another higher paying job or they would be forced to raise wages to keep people employed. .....that's how Walmart works.
Walmart isn't the only company that's doing it. McDonald's, Target, and other companies are getting into the habit of it as well. Give low wages, low amount of hours, and get them on government assistance, food stamps, Obamaphones, etc so they'll stay longer. They are using government dependence as part of the bottom line and to supplement workers pay.
wow I don't see how anyone can side with walmart on this :o oh wait they must be waiting for fox news to tell them that walmart is one of the bad guys :D :D :D
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Apparently, Walmart doesn't follow the law. They've lost some of the lawsuits filed against them. As for finding another job, if one doesn't like working there, I am sure many do. I bet the employee turnover at Walmart is very high.
If they break the law they get held accountable.
I'm sure the turnover is high, just most like retail stores and fast food places.
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You don't get it do you. Walmart intentionally gets its workers on government assistance so they can keep paying them low and keeping the hours low.....otherwise as Beach Bum would state, they would go out and find another higher paying job or they would be forced to raise wages to keep people employed. .....that's how Walmart works.
Walmart isn't the only company that's doing it. McDonald's, Target, and other companies are getting into the habit of it as well. Give low wages, low amount of hours, and get them on government assistance, food stamps, Obamaphones, etc so they'll stay longer. They are using government dependence as part of the bottom line and to supplement workers pay.
This explains why Walmart HR people give public assistance information to prospective employees during the interview process.
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This explains why Walmart HR people give public assistance information to prospective employees during the interview process.
Yep...they give it to prospects because its basically "free money" to them. You would also think that Walmart has a high turnover rate which is somewhat true but there are plenty of people that work there for years....the reason is because the jobs require absolutely no skills required, you have no real responsibility, and you have no goals to fulfill....a perfect job for an underachiever. It doesn't matter how hard you work or how little you work....as long as you act like a drone who doesn't complain or care, you'll have your job period....you stock clothes, electronics, etc. You don't even have to sell stuff...someone ask for a TV and you point to it.....
When I worked there, I unloaded all the packages from the truck, organized them by depts and wheeled them out to the departments...then scanned all the packages that came back....a total no brainer. So if you have a job that requires you to do nothing, get every government benefit under the sun, and basically a paycheck that you can spend on anything since you have no bills due to all the fucking government assistance you get....why would you leave to go get a job where it actually requires you to count to ten???? Why would you turn down free housing, Obamaphones, and etc
That's how it works....a bunch of drones dependent on the government thanks to greedy companies that want to increase their profit margin with your tax dollars. Remember the Soylent Green is people....
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Somehow costco manages to have cheap prices - often cheaper than walmart - and yet still pay their employees a livable wage. And don't tell me it's because they are charge a messily 50 dollar membership. ::) Not to mention their costco kirkland brand of everything from food to clothing is ace quality.
I support Costco as much as I can. I drive an extra 10 miles to shop there instead of the alternatives.
It's possible for Walmart to do the same .... it's just not in their agenda or business philosophy to give a fuck about their employees.
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Somehow costco manages to have cheap prices - often cheaper than walmart - and yet still pay their employees a livable wage. And don't tell me it's because they are charge a messily 50 dollar membership. ::) Not to mention their costco kirkland brand of everything from food to clothing is ace quality.
I support Costco as much as I can. I drive an extra 10 miles to shop there instead of the alternatives.
It's possible for Walmart to do the same .... it's just not in their agenda or business philosophy to give a fuck about their employees.
Correct. And I don't support them (walmart) by shopping elsewhere.
But unlike others in this thread, I don't believe they should be forced to pay their employees more just because its a "low wage job". Not every job is going to be a livable wage, especially unskilled jobs like working a register or stocking shelves. If people don't want to work at walmart, don't. Get a job elsewhere, get an education, learn a trade... something. But don't work at a shit place and then bitch about not getting paid enough for doing a shit job.
As long as Walmart isn't breaking any labor laws and paying at least miminum wage, then they can do whatever they want. I personally refuse to shop there, and would never work there... and I've had friends that worked there and said it was an ok job for being an unskilled labor job, benefits were so/so and they had flexible hours since they were in college..
for gods sake it's a typical retail unskilled job, much like the food industry. Low wage, not quite enough hours, not so great benefits.... but it paid their bills while they were working on moving onward and upward. It's not a fucking career.
People are so out of touch in this day and age, they want to be paid a middle class skilled wage to do a shit job that any moron could be hired off the street to do. Entitlement complex at it's finest.
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Somehow costco manages to have cheap prices - often cheaper than walmart - and yet still pay their employees a livable wage. And don't tell me it's because they are charge a messily 50 dollar membership. ::) Not to mention their costco kirkland brand of everything from food to clothing is ace quality.
I support Costco as much as I can. I drive an extra 10 miles to shop there instead of the alternatives.
It's possible for Walmart to do the same .... it's just not in their agenda or business philosophy to give a fuck about their employees.
Costoc is evil. I drop about $200 or more every time I set foot in that place. I'll even go in with a list of like three items and still wind up spending over $100. I think they're pumping in some kind of subliminal message into the store or something. >:(
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Somehow costco manages to have cheap prices - often cheaper than walmart - and yet still pay their employees a livable wage. And don't tell me it's because they are charge a messily 50 dollar membership. ::) Not to mention their costco kirkland brand of everything from food to clothing is ace quality.
I support Costco as much as I can. I drive an extra 10 miles to shop there instead of the alternatives.
It's possible for Walmart to do the same .... it's just not in their agenda or business philosophy to give a fuck about their employees.
Yep...because the business model is for the long run....rather than the shareholders....if you bought stock in Costco for 10k twenty years ago then it would only be worth 50k today....not a huge return compared to other companies. Costco makes profit by earning the trust of the customers but its workers.
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Correct. And I don't support them (walmart) by shopping elsewhere.
But unlike others in this thread, I don't believe they should be forced to pay their employees more just because its a "low wage job". Not every job is going to be a livable wage, especially unskilled jobs like working a register or stocking shelves. If people don't want to work at walmart, don't. Get a job elsewhere, get an education, learn a trade... something. But don't work at a shit place and then bitch about not getting paid enough for doing a shit job.
As long as Walmart isn't breaking any labor laws and paying at least miminum wage, then they can do whatever they want. I personally refuse to shop there, and would never work there... and I've had friends that worked there and said it was an ok job for being an unskilled labor job, benefits were so/so and they had flexible hours since they were in college..
for gods sake it's a typical retail unskilled job, much like the food industry. Low wage, not quite enough hours, not so great benefits.... but it paid their bills while they were working on moving onward and upward. It's not a fucking career.
People are so out of touch in this day and age, they want to be paid a middle class skilled wage to do a shit job that any moron could be hired off the street to do. Entitlement complex at it's finest.
Actually I suspect the issue is that these "shit" jobs,as you put it,are becoming much more prevalent today as we move away from being an industrialized nation and into a service orientated one. Many manufacturing jobs have moved oversees to third world countries where the companies can hire workers for a fraction of what they would pay them in the U.S. One can certainly make a case for businesses doing what provides them the highest returns, whether it is moving operations to other countries or hiring people at low wages to do minimally skilled service jobs. On the other hand, one has to wonder as the middle class shrinks, the number of working poor grows and the top 1% keeps getting richer, where this will end up for the U.S. Well, our nation transitioned from people living mainly off the land and farming to being industrialized with only some minor hiccups like the Great Depression and the dust bowl. Perhaps we will weather the shift to a nation of service workers with part time jobs and no benefits too. I am just having a lot of difficulty figuring out how this could all work out well. Maybe some of you wise folks could help me out here.
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Costoc is evil. I drop about $200 or more every time I set foot in that place. I'll even go in with a list of like three items and still wind up spending over $100. I think they're pumping in some kind of subliminal message into the store or something. >:(
Same here. I was there just yesterday for a couple of items. $250 later I was loading the car with enough stuff to feed us for the next year.
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Costoc is evil. I drop about $200 or more every time I set foot in that place. I'll even go in with a list of like three items and still wind up spending over $100. I think they're pumping in some kind of subliminal message into the store or something. >:(
This!
Especially since if you see something that you kind of like then the tendency is to buy more than you need because you don't know if you'll see that product again. (I am the proud owner of 6 XXL Jamaica button-up shirts, lol.)
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Actually I suspect the issue is that these "shit" jobs,as you put it,are becoming much more prevalent today as we move away from being an industrialized nation and into a service orientated one. Many manufacturing jobs have moved oversees to third world countries where the companies can hire workers for a fraction of what they would pay them in the U.S. One can certainly make a case for businesses doing what provides them the highest returns, whether it is moving operations to other countries or hiring people at low wages to do minimally skilled service jobs.
True - but the manufacturing, service AND R&D jobs are moving away from the US. It's not just low cost manufacturing that's moving.
I have a team that is more than capable of taking on a full project start to end, on their own, without much input from me and that includes the planning and discussions with the customers to ensure they get what they want.
It's far from just the low end grunt work leaving the US.
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lol
indeed
darkies always cry "slavery" ::)
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Actually I suspect the issue is that these "shit" jobs,as you put it,are becoming much more prevalent today as we move away from being an industrialized nation and into a service orientated one. Many manufacturing jobs have moved oversees to third world countries where the companies can hire workers for a fraction of what they would pay them in the U.S. One can certainly make a case for businesses doing what provides them the highest returns, whether it is moving operations to other countries or hiring people at low wages to do minimally skilled service jobs. On the other hand, one has to wonder as the middle class shrinks, the number of working poor grows and the top 1% keeps getting richer, where this will end up for the U.S. Well, our nation transitioned from people living mainly off the land and farming to being industrialized with only some minor hiccups like the Great Depression and the dust bowl. Perhaps we will weather the shift to a nation of service workers with part time jobs and no benefits too. I am just having a lot of difficulty figuring out how this could all work out well. Maybe some of you wise folks could help me out here.
ao its becoming more competitive. Adapt or die..... not everyone is going to be guaranteed a middle class job or life.... thats just the way it is. Competition is going to get much rougher... thats the reality.
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Same here. I was there just yesterday for a couple of items. $250 later I was loading the car with enough stuff to feed us for the next year.
Yep.
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This!
Especially since if you see something that you kind of like then the tendency is to buy more than you need because you don't know if you'll see that product again. (I am the proud owner of 6 XXL Jamaica button-up shirts, lol.)
lol. I was just looking at a huge jar of artichokes (one of two) wondering: why the heck did I buy that again??
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Ninja, please.
I wonder how much belief and faith that hypocritical fat fuck had in the Dominican prostitutes he was banging over there (with the help of the viagra that he didn't have a prescription for)?
Funny, though, normally I'd assume Rush is knowledgeable when it comes to bigotry. Why did he have to resign from his Monday Night Football commentating gig again?
Anyway, forgetting that Rush was the author of that quote:
That all systems favor some and are slanted against others seems inarguable to me. Liberals recognize this, it's true.
As I understand it, though, the amount of help that many liberals are in favor of giving the least among us in an effort to level the playing field is redonkulous when compared to the "help" being unnecessarily given to the biggest financial and military/industrial companies.
Getting so many to focus on scrutinizing the little help being given the poor while the rich make out like bandits is some sleight of hand bullshit that I'm not falling for. No thanks.
again I said try not to let who said it alter you view of it.
You didnt address the topic of his quote either.
He is basically saying that liberals view those "poor" people who are basically useless, arent smart enough to make good decisions like go to college, stop having kids, live within their means etc.
soft bigotry of LOW EXPECTATIONS!!!!
those people arent any different than me or you, you did well in your life and I am doing well in mine...why should we expect less from them?
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True - but the manufacturing, service AND R&D jobs are moving away from the US. It's not just low cost manufacturing that's moving.
I have a team that is more than capable of taking on a full project start to end, on their own, without much input from me and that includes the planning and discussions with the customers to ensure they get what they want.
It's far from just the low end grunt work leaving the US.
I think you misread what I posted. I don't think I said the manufacturing jobs that were going oversees were the "shit" jobs. It is many of the jobs people are left with here. Like you suggest, many companies are locating in other countries and also employing highly qualified folks, some of who actually move with the company from the U.S. to wherever.
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lol. I was just looking at a huge jar of artichokes (one of two) wondering: why the heck did I buy that again??
My wife buys those. There are always a couple of them sitting in our pantry.
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My wife buys those. There are always a couple of them sitting in our pantry.
That's what Costco will do to you.
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I think you misread what I posted. I don't think I said the manufacturing jobs that were going oversees were the "shit" jobs. It is many of the jobs people are left with here. Like you suggest, many companies are locating in other countries and also employing highly qualified folks, some of who actually move with the company from the U.S. to wherever.
Agreed.
I actually have an issue with the concept of "shit jobs". Seems that many here view other people and certain jobs as "shit" and not worthy of a living wage.
I disagree. Whilst I don't think we can turn everyone into a high-earner, I do think every job out there should pay a rate above the poverty level. Full time employment should pay a rate that does not leave employees needing another source of income/handouts. Part time employment obviously should pay an equivalent rate on an hourly basis.
There are a lot of presumptions about why a person would be working a job like this. That they are worthless, uneducated, lazy etc.
At the end of the day, someone needs to do menial jobs and I don't understand why the people doing them should need to lean on the state for handouts.
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Agreed.
I actually have an issue with the concept of "shit jobs". Seems that many here view other people and certain jobs as "shit" and not worthy of a living wage.
I disagree. Whilst I don't think we can turn everyone into a high-earner, I do think every job out there should pay a rate above the poverty level. Full time employment should pay a rate that does not leave employees needing another source of income/handouts. Part time employment obviously should pay an equivalent rate on an hourly basis.
There are a lot of presumptions about why a person would be working a job like this. That they are worthless, uneducated, lazy etc.
At the end of the day, someone needs to do menial jobs and I don't understand why the people doing them should need to lean on the state for handouts.
its literally impossible for everyone to earn a middle class wage just because they're working. And I totally disagree anyway... I dont believe everyone deserves a living wage simply because they exist and theyre working. I don't necessarily think theyre lazy or shitbags, but for some to have more, others have to have less. And hard workers should not have to sacrifice so that people who are not up to par can make the same amount.
its a naive ideal IMHO. Life is unfair, amd those that excel will rise, those that dont or wont, should not. I realize it doesnt always work out that way, but thats the reality of it. Some will have more, others less, some next to nothing. A lot of it is simply their drive and desire, and why should those who dont put out the effort to become educated, or find a job they can excel at, or learn a trade, be rewarded for their apathy?
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In many cases what constitutes a living wage is relative to ones lifestyle. If a person has many children they can't afford , spends frivolously on luxuries and has accrued large debts, the amount of money they require to live will be greater.
The lesson to be learned, never assume more than you can handle. Don't acquire a lifestyle that does not match your skill set. It's impossible to live the fabulous life when what you have to offer is worth considerably less or nothing at all. Many of life's tragedies could be avoided with better planning.
However, I personally believe executives are pay far more than they are worth. If I owned a large business like walmart I would provide employees with a decent wage.
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In many cases what constitutes a living wage is relative to ones lifestyle. If a person has many children they can't afford , spends frivolously on luxuries and has accrued large debts, the amount of money they require to live will be greater.
The lesson to be learned, never assume more than you can handle. Don't acquire a lifestyle that does not match your skill set. It's impossible to live the fabulous life when what you have to offer is worth considerably less or nothing at all. Many of life's tragedies could be avoided with better planning.
However, I personally believe executives are pay far more than they are worth. If I owned a large business like walmart I would provide employees with a decent wage.
read and learn libtards, read and learn
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its literally impossible for everyone to earn a middle class wage just because they're working. And I totally disagree anyway... I dont believe everyone deserves a living wage simply because they exist and theyre working. I don't necessarily think theyre lazy or shitbags, but for some to have more, others have to have less. And hard workers should not have to sacrifice so that people who are not up to par can make the same amount.
its a naive ideal IMHO. Life is unfair, amd those that excel will rise, those that dont or wont, should not. I realize it doesnt always work out that way, but thats the reality of it. Some will have more, others less, some next to nothing. A lot of it is simply their drive and desire, and why should those who dont put out the effort to become educated, or find a job they can excel at, or learn a trade, be rewarded for their apathy?
Absolutely agree - some will have more, some will have less. When some have less than established poverty levels for full time employment, I have an issue with that.
There are 2 ways to look at this.
1 - the employee can't find a job at a better rate and so should be happy to take one that pays below established poverty levels
2 - the employer cannot afford to pay for staff at a rate above the poverty level, so should not be employing anyone
I don't see what the big deal is with number 2. WalMart should pay above poverty/assistance levels or not be an employer. The market should set rates but you also should have minimums.
I thought these minimums were set in the US anyway....
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In many cases what constitutes a living wage is relative to ones lifestyle. If a person has many children they can't afford , spends frivolously on luxuries and has accrued large debts, the amount of money they require to live will be greater.
The lesson to be learned, never assume more than you can handle. Don't acquire a lifestyle that does not match your skill set. It's impossible to live the fabulous life when what you have to offer is worth considerably less or nothing at all. Many of life's tragedies could be avoided with better planning.
However, I personally believe executives are pay far more than they are worth. If I owned a large business like walmart I would provide employees with a decent wage.
You are exampling extremes while ignoring the nuisances of poverty. A living wage is relative to how much someone earns, not their lifestyle. Do you personally know a lot of folks who make minimum wage and spend it frivolously on luxuries? It is rare that people with a minimal income accrue large debts, since most can't get much credit. They do sometimes succumb to acquiring what many consider necessities, like cheap transportation (junk cars) with much higher interest rates then those of us with excellent credit pay.
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You are exampling extremes while ignoring the nuisances of poverty. A living wage is relative to how much someone earns, not their lifestyle. Do you personally know a lot of folks who make minimum wage and spend it frivolously on luxuries? It is rare that people with a minimal income accrue large debts, since most can't get much credit. They do sometimes succumb to acquiring what many consider necessities, like cheap transportation (junk cars) with much higher interest rates then those of us with excellent credit pay.
I understand poverty on a personal level. I grew up poor, so poor I didn't have a tv in my home until I was ten, around the same time our family owned our first used washing machine. I've lived on my own since I was sixteen. I worked a part time job while also finishing high school. I shared an apartment with other people to bring costs down and I survived.
It has as everything to do with lifestyle. It's simple math, the less expenditures you have, the more money you keep. If you're a single person who makes minimum wage your going to have to make certain lifestyle concessions. You're not going to be able to live alone or make unnecessary purchases, have a new car or the latest fashions. You won't be able to buy a house or raise a family.
I've gone over the poor owning luxuries a million times. I've posted the census data countless times. A large percentage of people who are at poverty level own many different luxury items.
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Absolutely agree - some will have more, some will have less. When some have less than established poverty levels for full time employment, I have an issue with that.
There are 2 ways to look at this.
1 - the employee can't find a job at a better rate and so should be happy to take one that pays below established poverty levels
2 - the employer cannot afford to pay for staff at a rate above the poverty level, so should not be employing anyone
I don't see what the big deal is with number 2. WalMart should pay above poverty/assistance levels or not be an employer. The market should set rates but you also should have minimums.
I thought these minimums were set in the US anyway....
they are. Minimum wage... however its not designed to be a living wage. Wal mart shelf stockers are not supposed to apply at wal mart thinking theyre going to be making 35000 a year, or that its a career, because its not. They have high turnover, next to no opportunity for advancement, negligable benefits.... its designed for people who have no skills to earn enough cash to get by while they either build their skills or find better work... for the most part they dont even work full time.
EDIT
*FYI my friend that worked as an overnight janitor there said they actually pay above minimum wage and get decent raises if you meet their timed objectives.... he actually lived lower middle class for America working there with his GF who worked days... together they made roughly 40k a year. Its not like theyre living ij poverty.... he had a 50" LCD, ate out all the time.... its all about how y9u choose to live.
people here expect to be handed a 2 story house and an escalade and 60k a year to fucking stock shelves and its ridiculous.
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I understand poverty on a personal level. I grew up poor, so poor I didn't have a tv in my home until I was ten, around the same time our family owned our first used washing machine. I've lived on my own since I was sixteen. I worked a part time job while also finishing high school. I shared an apartment with other people to bring costs down and I survived.
It has as everything to do with lifestyle. It's simple math, the less expenditures you have, the more money you keep. If you're a single person who makes minimum wage your going to have to make certain lifestyle concessions. You're not going to be able to live alone or make unnecessary purchases, have a new car or the latest fashions. You won't be able to buy a house or raise a family.
I've gone over the poor owning luxuries a million times. I've posted the census data countless times. A large percentage of people who are at poverty level own many different luxury items.
While I don't have as much experience with being poor as you do, I did have a year of poverty when I was 18 years old. It was kind of fun sometimes because my friends and roommate were just as poor as I was. We could go out for an evening of drinking at the bars on .25, the cost of one draft beer (and yes I got served underage). I have also a fair amount of experience with living beyond one's means.
My parents were accomplished at doing this. The lived big and with enormous debt which resulted is at least two bankruptcies that I know of. When my stepdad had a heart attack and couldn't work for awhile, my mom applied for and got food stamps. She drove a two year old Lincoln Continental and they lived in a big house with a pool in an expensive neighborhood in Southern California all while have nothing in the bank....no savings. Fortunately, I no longer lived at home when this happened.
I am pretty sure my parents weren't the norm and to be honest, their situation (at least my dad not being able to work) was temporary. But they were chronically in debt and no one but their creditors were the wiser because from all outward appearances they were well off.
I chose to be conservative with my money, even when my income wasn't great. In the long run, it has paid off. Not everyone learns these little life lessons. My wife and I had a small B&W television until about 1975 or so because that was all we could afford. Our first color television magically appeared in the shed behind our house. It brand new and probably stolen and dumped there. A fiend of mine who was a Portland Policeman advised that since there was no identifying info to determine where I might have been stolen from we should keep it. When I brought it into the house and plugged it in it snapped and crackled because of the moisture inside. Amazingly it worked. We kept it until it finally broke down many years later.
I'd be interested to see the resources you say you posted regarding the percentages of poor people living the life of Riley. This seems very curious to me.
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Agreed.
I actually have an issue with the concept of "shit jobs". Seems that many here view other people and certain jobs as "shit" and not worthy of a living wage.
I disagree. Whilst I don't think we can turn everyone into a high-earner, I do think every job out there should pay a rate above the poverty level. Full time employment should pay a rate that does not leave employees needing another source of income/handouts. Part time employment obviously should pay an equivalent rate on an hourly basis.
There are a lot of presumptions about why a person would be working a job like this. That they are worthless, uneducated, lazy etc.
At the end of the day, someone needs to do menial jobs and I don't understand why the people doing them should need to lean on the state for handouts.
repeal those pesky child labor laws and really lower the wages. those 'no brainer' jobs like unpacking and stocking; give 'em to a sixth grader.
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You are exampling extremes while ignoring the nuisances of poverty. A living wage is relative to how much someone earns, not their lifestyle. Do you personally know a lot of folks who make minimum wage and spend it frivolously on luxuries? It is rare that people with a minimal income accrue large debts, since most can't get much credit. They do sometimes succumb to acquiring what many consider necessities, like cheap transportation (junk cars) with much higher interest rates then those of us with excellent credit pay.
are you fucking kidding me?
most people on welfare are single mothers, who have never been married with mulitple kids, under 30 and with at most a high school diploma.
Thats A LIFESTYLE DECISION!!!!!
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http://blog.heritage.org/wp-content/uploads/poor-households-amenities.jpg
I dont know if this is what archer was referring to but I can name a few things on this list that are luxuries for someone who considers themself poor.
TV, DVD Player, Xbox/Playstation, cell phones, internet, stereos, cable/satellite, computers
you could argue that many more things on that list are luxuries as well like washer/driers, A/C etc.
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http://blog.heritage.org/wp-content/uploads/poor-households-amenities.jpg
I dont know if this is what archer was referring to but I can name a few things on this list that are luxuries for someone who considers themself poor.
TV, DVD Player, Xbox/Playstation, cell phones, internet, stereos, cable/satellite, computers
you could argue that many more things on that list are luxuries as well like washer/driers, A/C etc.
Yes, this is one of the items I mentioned. Before anyone dismisses the data because of the Heritage Foundation label, it must be understood that the Heritage Foundation didn't create this data. The data comes directly from the 2010 census which is where I originally found it.
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are you fucking kidding me?
most people on welfare are single mothers, who have never been married with mulitple kids, under 30 and with at most a high school diploma.
Thats A LIFESTYLE DECISION!!!!!
truth
unfortunately, politicians pandering for votes will never make real leadership decisions on these matters
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http://blog.heritage.org/wp-content/uploads/poor-households-amenities.jpg
I dont know if this is what archer was referring to but I can name a few things on this list that are luxuries for someone who considers themself poor.
TV, DVD Player, Xbox/Playstation, cell phones, internet, stereos, cable/satellite, computers
you could argue that many more things on that list are luxuries as well like washer/driers, A/C etc.
As an aside, its amazing how what constitutes poverty has changed in the West.
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As an aside, its amazing how what constitutes poverty has changed in the West.
True. I've long pointed out that the percent of those on govt assistance who have cable, cell phones, etc... Is very high.
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True. I've long pointed out that the percent of those on govt assistance who have cable, cell phones, etc... Is very high.
not just cable but internet as well
shit my cable and internet runs me close to 150 a month and I dont have any premium channels
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it would be interesting to hear what those in this thread saying someone should be paid a decent wage thinks a person should be able to afford with it.
prime, RRKore, etc?
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not just cable but internet as well
shit my cable and internet runs me close to 150 a month and I dont have any premium channels
Oh yeah. And throw in a cell phone bill of $100 plus. Many smoke and drink. Which is fine with me as long as we arent paying for their necessities to give them that disposable income.
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it would be interesting to hear what those in this thread saying someone should be paid a decent wage thinks a person should be able to afford with it.
prime, RRKore, etc?
That is the million dollar question. Ive read that some ultra-left thinkers believe entertainment is a right.
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That is the million dollar question. Ive read that some ultra-left thinkers believe entertainment is a right.
lol doesnt suprise me at all.
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lol doesnt suprise me at all.
Libraries are free.
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are you fucking kidding me?
most people on welfare are single mothers, who have never been married with mulitple kids, under 30 and with at most a high school diploma.
Thats A LIFESTYLE DECISION!!!!!
We were talking about wages, not welfare. You're rant is irrelevant to the topic at hand.
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http://blog.heritage.org/wp-content/uploads/poor-households-amenities.jpg
I dont know if this is what archer was referring to but I can name a few things on this list that are luxuries for someone who considers themself poor.
TV, DVD Player, Xbox/Playstation, cell phones, internet, stereos, cable/satellite, computers
you could argue that many more things on that list are luxuries as well like washer/driers, A/C etc.
Cell phones are not a luxury these days. In order to find employment a perspective employer needs to be able to reach you. Tin cans on a string just don't work very well these days. And of course you know for a fact that many people at the poverty level have these luxuries, right?
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Cell phones are not a luxury these days. In order to find employment a perspective employer needs to be able to reach you. Tin cans on a string just don't work very well these days. And of course you know for a fact that many people at the poverty level have these luxuries, right?
actually, they do. You see hobos walking down the streets of seattle with smart phones. And you can get a basic flip phone for 20 bucks a month from walmart.
I get the feeling that you are extremely out of touch with what "poverty" has become in America, yet you argue and think that you do.
Poverty in the west is Cable LCD TV, smart phone, and one bedroom 600 sq ft apartment. And these are the people bitching that tjey have it so fucking hard.
1st world problems, jesus christ. I lived on my own moving furniture for 9 bucks an hour in 08 when the crash hit and I was out of the military. ... I could still afford a nice place, comcast cable and internet, 2 cars (a cheap commuter and my truck), and a cell phone, on NO government benefits. People today just want what others have and arent willing to accept that may have to start with next to nothing (which is still a shit ton more than most of the world).
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We were talking about wages, not welfare. You're rant is irrelevant to the topic at hand.
do you not understand the connection?
low wages + idiotic life decisions = welfare shithead
low wages + living within ones means = not a welfare shithead
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Cell phones are not a luxury these days. In order to find employment a perspective employer needs to be able to reach you. Tin cans on a string just don't work very well these days. And of course you know for a fact that many people at the poverty level have these luxuries, right?
per the census data, yes we can see that 50% of those "poor" families did.
what do you consider "poor" prime?
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People today just want what others have and arent willing to accept that may have to start with next to nothing (which is still a shit ton more than most of the world).
read and understand libtards, read and understand
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actually, they do. You see hobos walking down the streets of seattle with smart phones. And you can get a basic flip phone for 20 bucks a month from walmart.
I get the feeling that you are extremely out of touch with what "poverty" has become in America, yet you argue and think that you do.
Poverty in the west is Cable LCD TV, smart phone, and one bedroom 600 sq ft apartment. And these are the people bitching that tjey have it so fucking hard.
1st world problems, jesus christ. I lived on my own moving furniture for 9 bucks an hour in 08 when the crash hit and I was out of the military. ... I could still afford a nice place, comcast cable and internet, 2 cars (a cheap commuter and my truck), and a cell phone, on NO government benefits. People today just want what others have and arent willing to accept that may have to start with next to nothing (which is still a shit ton more than most of the world).
You're feeling is wrong. Several of my friends and my wife and I volunteer at shelters, feeding the homeless. My wife worked for years in the "Life and Career Options" program at a local community college. This program was designed to help people get into or back into the workforce. Many of the participants were homeless or nearly so. My wife and I help distribute food at food banks. This year we are participating in a program that gives toys to the children of currently unemployed or underemployed working folks. I believe I have a pretty good idea of what it is like to find yourself out of work and trying to support a family.
Today being Thanksgiving, my wife and I are fixing dinner for some of our family.
My sister is here for the weekend. Because of her meager income, she qualifies for food stamps and help with her utility bills. She is disabled and unemployable. Her income is SSD and a small pension as a result of the few years she worked at the DMV. She lives in a shit apartment. She does not own a car. She has one television that is ancient and it is not a flat screen TV. The computer she had, which was a gift, quit working. She cannot afford to replace it. Her cell phone is nothing special and her service is cricket, a pay as you go minimal type service.
Later today, my nephew his girlfriend and their 2 year old daughter are coming over. They are struggling to make ends meet. Like my sister, the live in a crummy neighborhood in an apartment building filled with people living on the fringes of society. Neither my nephew nor his girlfriend take drugs. Currently, my nephew is working part time as a cook for a restaurant and picking up odd jobs where he can. His girlfriend is in school studying to become a nurse. She is currently a CNA and until recently was working at a nursing home for low wages. She has applied to the University of Oregon Medical School for work as a CNA or a Nutritionist. If she lands a position there, they will help her pay for her schooling. My nephew's cell phone has a cracked screen. I am not sure how he can read what comes up on it. I helped them move, there furniture is clean and looks like it might have come from Goodwill or it was handed down to them. It is nothing fancy. The car they drive looks like it wouldn't make it to the corner much less back a forth to work. I don't know if they qualify for food stamps (a card actually).
So I guess when you compare these two family members' lifestyles to that of some homeless people or a poor person living in a third world county, they are living the life of Riley. And one could argue that everything is relative.
I haven't heard the term hobo for years. When I was a kid living with my dad in Michigan, we kids were told not to go near the railroad tracks because of the hobos and yet people would put food and old clothing out for them. Seriously, are there still hobos in the sense of what they once were when the railroad was more viable?
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it would be interesting to hear what those in this thread saying someone should be paid a decent wage thinks a person should be able to afford with it.
prime, RRKore, etc?
A decent wage or a living wage? There is a difference. A decent wage is much more subjective then a living wage in my book. So if you want to talk about what someone can afford on a decent wage, you'd have to define decent. What one person thinks is a decent wage another may not.
A living wage generally means a wage good enough to provide one with the basic necessities, such as: food, shelter, clothing, transportation (whether public or a basic vehicle) and access to reasonable medical care. These are the basics everyone needs to survive. One could argue everything beyond this list is a luxury, however as I pointed out with the cell phone issue, some things are necessary for people to be able to function in today's society. Cell phones are a prime example. Given that there are hardly any pay phones, a cell phone is probably the cheapest means of necessary communication.
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Oh yeah. And throw in a cell phone bill of $100 plus. Many smoke and drink. Which is fine with me as long as we arent paying for their necessities to give them that disposable income.
-Exaggeration again. My wife and I both have cell phones. Our service provider is Verizon. Our plan is all inclusive. Granted we get a senior discount, but all things considered our monthly charges are less then $100 a month. Cricket offers pay as you go cell phone service with phones beginning at $19.99.
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You're feeling is wrong. Several of my friends and my wife and I volunteer at shelters, feeding the homeless. My wife worked for years in the "Life and Career Options" program at a local community college. This program was designed to help people get into or back into the workforce. Many of the participants were homeless or nearly so. My wife and I help distribute food at food banks. This year we are participating in a program that gives toys to the children of currently unemployed or underemployed working folks. I believe I have a pretty good idea of what it is like to find yourself out of work and trying to support a family.
Today being Thanksgiving, my wife and I are fixing dinner for some of our family.
My sister is here for the weekend. Because of her meager income, she qualifies for food stamps and help with her utility bills. She is disabled and unemployable. Her income is SSD and a small pension as a result of the few years she worked at the DMV. She lives in a shit apartment. She does not own a car. She has one television that is ancient and it is not a flat screen TV. The computer she had, which was a gift, quit working. She cannot afford to replace it. Her cell phone is nothing special and her service is cricket, a pay as you go minimal type service.
Later today, my nephew his girlfriend and their 2 year old daughter are coming over. They are struggling to make ends meet. Like my sister, the live in a crummy neighborhood in an apartment building filled with people living on the fringes of society. Neither my nephew nor his girlfriend take drugs. Currently, my nephew is working part time as a cook for a restaurant and picking up odd jobs where he can. His girlfriend is in school studying to become a nurse. She is currently a CNA and until recently was working at a nursing home for low wages. She has applied to the University of Oregon Medical School for work as a CNA or a Nutritionist. If she lands a position there, they will help her pay for her schooling. My nephew's cell phone has a cracked screen. I am not sure how he can read what comes up on it. I helped them move, there furniture is clean and looks like it might have come from Goodwill or it was handed down to them. It is nothing fancy. The car they drive looks like it wouldn't make it to the corner much less back a forth to work. I don't know if they qualify for food stamps (a card actually).
So I guess when you compare these two family members' lifestyles to that of some homeless people or a poor person living in a third world county, they are living the life of Riley. And one could argue that everything is relative.
I haven't heard the term hobo for years. When I was a kid living with my dad in Michigan, we kids were told not to go near the railroad tracks because of the hobos and yet people would put food and old clothing out for them. Seriously, are there still hobos in the sense of what they once were when the railroad was more viable?
Fair enough...
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per the census data, yes we can see that 50% of those "poor" families did.
what do you consider "poor" prime?
There is census data regarding who owns flat screen TV's? Amazing!
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A decent wage or a living wage? There is a difference. A decent wage is much more subjective then a living wage in my book. So if you want to talk about what someone can afford on a decent wage, you'd have to define decent. What one person thinks is a decent wage another may not.
A living wage generally means a wage good enough to provide one with the basic necessities, such as: food, shelter, clothing, transportation (whether public or a basic vehicle) and access to reasonable medical care. These are the basics everyone needs to survive. One could argue everything beyond this list is a luxury, however as I pointed out with the cell phone issue, some things are necessary for people to be able to function in today's society. Cell phones are a prime example. Given that there are hardly any pay phones, a cell phone is probably the cheapest means of necessary communication.
to get a definition of "decent wage" you would have to ask the libtards in this thread that used the term, i was just asking what it meant.
so food, shelter, clothing and transportation...so for a single person lets do some math...
lets say $800 a month for a shitty but weather proof apartment with water/electricity
lets say $150 a month for food which allows for going out a few times a month
lets say $50 a month for clothes
lets say $50 a month for public transportation(A metro pass)
That is $12,600 a year or about $14,850 before taxes
at $7.50/hour that is 1,975 hours a year or about 164 hours a month or 41 hours a week. Thats before tax credits, tax refunds etc.
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read and understand libtards, read and understand
This is nothing more than an opinion. Opinions are not facts. This much I understand perfectly.
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True. I've long pointed out that the percent of those on govt assistance who have cable, cell phones, etc... Is very high.
Point this out with something other than just your opinion. Provide a valid link to legitimate statistics and not just a right wing nut opinion.
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This is nothing more than an opinion. Opinions are not facts. This much I understand perfectly.
census data showing that the majority of "poor" have luxuries and yes a tv no matter if its a flat screen or not is a luxury if youre "poor"
census data showing that the majority of ppl on welfare are single mothers that have never been married, with multiple kids under 30 with at most a highschool diploma
are FACTS PRIME, THOSE ARE NOT OPINIONS
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Point this out with something other than just your opinion. Provide a valid link to legitimate statistics and not just a right wing nut opinion.
did you not see the link I posted?
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http://money.msn.com/saving-money-tips/post.aspx?post=af23341f-50a1-4bd3-9cd1-412865aac16f
•Almost two-thirds have cable or satellite TV.
•More than half of poor households with children have a video game system.
•Half of poor households have a computer and 43% have Internet access.
•A third have a plasma or LCD TV, and a quarter have a digital video recorder.
http://polipundit.com/?p=31945
Data from the Department of Energy and other agencies show that the average poor family, as defined by Census officials:
● Lives in a home that is in good repair, not crowded, and equipped with air conditioning, clothes washer and dryer, and cable or satellite TV service.
● Prepares meals in a kitchen with a refrigerator, coffee maker and microwave as well as oven and stove.
● Enjoys two color TVs, a DVD player, VCR and — if children are there — an Xbox, PlayStation, or other video game system.
● Had enough money in the past year to meet essential needs, including adequate food and medical care.
While I dont think its ok to be ignorant about facts I understand that it does happen from time to time. It is completely unacceptable to be ignorant in the face of facts though.
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to get a definition of "decent wage" you would have to ask the libtards in this thread that used the term, i was just asking what it meant.
so food, shelter, clothing and transportation...so for a single person lets do some math...
lets say $800 a month for a shitty but weather proof apartment with water/electricity
lets say $150 a month for food which allows for going out a few times a month
lets say $50 a month for clothes
lets say $50 a month for public transportation(A metro pass)
That is $12,600 a year or about $14,850 before taxes
at $7.50/hour that is 1,975 hours a year or about 164 hours a month or 41 hours a week. Thats before tax credits, tax refunds etc.
Your figures for housing, food, clothes and transportation are good examples as long as you recognize these figures vary with location. Fulltime is actually 2080 hours per year. The current Federal minimum wage remains at $7.25 per hour, however it is higher in some states. Someone working full time at current federal minimum wage earns $15,080 per year before taxes, so a little higher then your estimate. The 2014 minimum wage is $9.10 an hour, thus someone working fulltime in Oregon at minimum wage would earn $18,928 per year.
For 2013, the Federal poverty guideline is an annual income of $23,550 for a family of four. This is the most commonly used statistic. Add $4,020 for each additional person to compute the Federal poverty level for larger families. Subtract $4,020 per person to compute it for smaller families. For example, a single-person household is considered poor if his or her income is $11,490 or less. These are the guidelines for the 48 contiguous states. Guidelines for Alaska and Hawaii are a little higher, since it is more expensive to live there. The Federal poverty level is updated every year to keep up with price increases in the previous year.
So using these figures, a single person making minimum wage and working full time is above the Federal poverty level.
One essential item you missed is healthcare. Whether a person has insurance or not, there are still costs associated with health-care even if only for over the counter medications and the occasional emergency room visit for those who do not have a regular doctor.
I'd venture a guess that there are a lot of folks who'd feel pretty flush if they could just find full time work. Unfortunately, at the lower end of the employment spectrum, full time jobs are much harder to come by.
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did you not see the link I posted?
Apparently not. Here is your post. Can you point it out to me?
census data showing that the majority of "poor" have luxuries and yes a tv no matter if its a flat screen or not is a luxury if youre "poor"
census data showing that the majority of ppl on welfare are single mothers that have never been married, with multiple kids under 30 with at most a highschool diploma
are FACTS PRIME, THOSE ARE NOT OPINIONS
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libtards
ya know what's weird? When you call someone a libtard, they will disagree with everything you say, forever, even if you're right or wrong.
I see a lot more profanity and name calling and outright insults from the repubs on getbig, I gotta be honest. Maybe it's because they're pissed off, etc...
but i wonder if the major split in their party, their loss in 4/6 Prez races (and 2 barely wins in there), etc is maybe connected to the fact many repubs use that kind of insulting language.
I'm sure dems do it too... it just seems on getbig, it's a lot of far-right types using "libtards" and other speech.. the most ironic part? The "libtarded" just keep on cleaning the repubs' clocks in elections. You keep losing to someone you classify as retarded... what does that say about the repubs' performance?
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ya know what's weird? When you call someone a libtard, they will disagree with everything you say, forever, even if you're right or wrong.
I see a lot more profanity and name calling and outright insults from the repubs on getbig, I gotta be honest. Maybe it's because they're pissed off, etc...
but i wonder if the major split in their party, their loss in 4/6 Prez races (and 2 barely wins in there), etc is maybe connected to the fact many repubs use that kind of insulting language.
I'm sure dems do it too... it just seems on getbig, it's a lot of far-right types using "libtards" and other speech.. the most ironic part? The "libtarded" just keep on cleaning the repubs' clocks in elections. You keep losing to someone you classify as retarded... what does that say about the repubs' performance?
All it says is the general public is gullible, or votes for the guy that promises the most "free" stuff.
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http://money.msn.com/saving-money-tips/post.aspx?post=af23341f-50a1-4bd3-9cd1-412865aac16f
•Almost two-thirds have cable or satellite TV.
•More than half of poor households with children have a video game system.
•Half of poor households have a computer and 43% have Internet access.
•A third have a plasma or LCD TV, and a quarter have a digital video recorder.
http://polipundit.com/?p=31945
Data from the Department of Energy and other agencies show that the average poor family, as defined by Census officials:
● Lives in a home that is in good repair, not crowded, and equipped with air conditioning, clothes washer and dryer, and cable or satellite TV service.
● Prepares meals in a kitchen with a refrigerator, coffee maker and microwave as well as oven and stove.
● Enjoys two color TVs, a DVD player, VCR and — if children are there — an Xbox, PlayStation, or other video game system.
● Had enough money in the past year to meet essential needs, including adequate food and medical care.
While I dont think its ok to be ignorant about facts I understand that it does happen from time to time. It is completely unacceptable to be ignorant in the face of facts though.
The first link is interesting. Did you read the entire article or just cull the few facts that supported your previously formed opinion? The second link is nothing more than opinion, albeit the conservative one.
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All it says is the general public is gullible, or votes for the guy that promises the most "free" stuff.
You're 100% right.... In that case, what is the solution? Cause IMO, when you call someone a 'libtard', well, fck that person... I'm going to vote against 100% of what he says, cause anyone that big of a dick must support some dickhead policies, you know?
Maybe if repubs were a little nicer, people would listen to their correct & relevant points about the horrible path we're on... But when you call a person a libtard... well, ,they'll vote for anyone you don't.
Just a thought... I just think the track record of insulting libs has done nothing but grow their numbers- and solidifying their position on things.
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You're 100% right.... In that case, what is the solution? Cause IMO, when you call someone a 'libtard', well, fck that person... I'm going to vote against 100% of what he says, cause anyone that big of a dick must support some dickhead policies, you know?
Maybe if repubs were a little nicer, people would listen to their correct & relevant points about the horrible path we're on... But when you call a person a libtard... well, ,they'll vote for anyone you don't.
Just a thought... I just think the track record of insulting libs has done nothing but grow their numbers- and solidifying their position on things.
Well I don't generally call anyone names, unless provoked. Back on point, the solution? Make people accountable for themselves, there was a time in this country when accepting welfare was looked down upon, and those that took it felt shame. Not anymore, apparently simply by being born in America you are entitled to the good life.....
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Your figures for housing, food, clothes and transportation are good examples as long as you recognize these figures vary with location. Fulltime is actually 2080 hours per year. The current Federal minimum wage remains at $7.25 per hour, however it is higher in some states. Someone working full time at current federal minimum wage earns $15,080 per year before taxes, so a little higher then your estimate. The 2014 minimum wage is $9.10 an hour, thus someone working fulltime in Oregon at minimum wage would earn $18,928 per year.
For 2013, the Federal poverty guideline is an annual income of $23,550 for a family of four. This is the most commonly used statistic. Add $4,020 for each additional person to compute the Federal poverty level for larger families. Subtract $4,020 per person to compute it for smaller families. For example, a single-person household is considered poor if his or her income is $11,490 or less. These are the guidelines for the 48 contiguous states. Guidelines for Alaska and Hawaii are a little higher, since it is more expensive to live there. The Federal poverty level is updated every year to keep up with price increases in the previous year.
So using these figures, a single person making minimum wage and working full time is above the Federal poverty level.
One essential item you missed is healthcare. Whether a person has insurance or not, there are still costs associated with health-care even if only for over the counter medications and the occasional emergency room visit for those who do not have a regular doctor.
I'd venture a guess that there are a lot of folks who'd feel pretty flush if they could just find full time work. Unfortunately, at the lower end of the employment spectrum, full time jobs are much harder to come by.
agreed the numbers change with location and if youre in a location that pays lower or has a higher cost of living, GUESS WHAT????
MOVE!!!!
A couple making minimum wage should not have 2 children, if they choose to have children that is their issue not yours, mine or anyone elses. I should not be responsible for their shitty decisions, nor should you or anyone else.
I agree on healthcare costs, we could add another say 50-100 month for health insurance, so add 600-1200 a year for that expense. If we are going to get detailed we should also note that they will get a decent tax refund from the govt as well.
The point being a single person making minimum wage working full time, SHOULD BE ABLE TO MAKE ENDS MEET IF THEY ARE JUST BUYING THE NECESSITIES.
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The first link is interesting. Did you read the entire article or just cull the few facts that supported your previously formed opinion? The second link is nothing more than opinion, albeit the conservative one.
the second link is based of the same data the first link is based off of ::)
just fucking walk away!!!
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the second link is based of the same data the first link is based off of ::)
just fucking walk away!!!
Im sorry it was indeed a different survey but far from opinion
http://polipundit.com/?p=31945
Data from the Department of Energy and other agencies show that the average poor family, as defined by Census officials:
● Lives in a home that is in good repair, not crowded, and equipped with air conditioning, clothes washer and dryer, and cable or satellite TV service.
● Prepares meals in a kitchen with a refrigerator, coffee maker and microwave as well as oven and stove.
● Enjoys two color TVs, a DVD player, VCR and — if children are there — an Xbox, PlayStation, or other video game system.
● Had enough money in the past year to meet essential needs, including adequate food and medical care.
thats not opinion prime, that is DATA!!!
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While I dont think its ok to be ignorant about facts I understand that it does happen from time to time. It is completely unacceptable to be ignorant in the face of facts though.
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While I dont think its ok to be ignorant about facts I understand that it does happen from time to time. It is completely unacceptable to be ignorant in the face of facts though.
You simply don't understand, stocking shelves, scanning items at checkout is serious business. Beside, no one who works at walmart has a choice they are forced to work there
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Well I don't generally call anyone names, unless provoked. Back on point, the solution? Make people accountable for themselves, there was a time in this country when accepting welfare was looked down upon, and those that took it felt shame. Not anymore, apparently simply by being born in America you are entitled to the good life.....
How do you do this? Make people accountable? Sadly, I'm starting to believe america may never eleect a politican that makes them be accountable. Why would they? Hilary and Christie will let them keep welfare, and Cruz will not. how can cruz win?
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How do you do this? Make people accountable? Sadly, I'm starting to believe america may never eleect a politican that makes them be accountable. Why would they? Hilary and Christie will let them keep welfare, and Cruz will not. how can cruz win?
Politicians buy votes with tax payer money, force the federal government to do what they are constitutionally allowed to do and nothing else. The gravy train stops............
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agreed the numbers change with location and if youre in a location that pays lower or has a higher cost of living, GUESS WHAT????
MOVE!!!!
A couple making minimum wage should not have 2 children, if they choose to have children that is their issue not yours, mine or anyone elses. I should not be responsible for their shitty decisions, nor should you or anyone else.
I agree on healthcare costs, we could add another say 50-100 month for health insurance, so add 600-1200 a year for that expense. If we are going to get detailed we should also note that they will get a decent tax refund from the govt as well.
The point being a single person making minimum wage working full time, SHOULD BE ABLE TO MAKE ENDS MEET IF THEY ARE JUST BUYING THE NECESSITIES.
So it would seem, your answer to everything is to simply move. To hell with being where your family is. Can't afford to rent a moving truck? Sell all that shit and get new....oh wait, you don't have a job yet, so you won't be able to do that.
Likewise, if your job doesn't pay enough quit and get a new one. Oh wait on this too, what if no one is hiring. You'd be out of a job with no prospects. BTW experts advise that employed folks are much more likely to be hired then someone who is unemployed. Guess you better rethink quitting that old low paying job until you find the new one, huh?
I am in complete agreement that people making minimum wage probably cannot afford to have kids. What about people who make a good wage, have kids and then something changes like they get laid off or fired and they take a lesser or minimum wage position as a stopgap so as to not end up on welfare? I guess they could sell their kids if they are still young enough to be marketable.
I don't know if a person making minimum wage should be able to make ends meet these days. I am not sure I ever made minimum wage even in the days when I thought my wages were too little. I always made ends meet somehow. but that was a very different time then it is today. How do you know that a person making minimum wage should be doing just fine? Have you ever been in this situation and if so, when were you in it?
I see a lot of guessing and finger pointing going on here. Also a lot of exaggerations, not to mention regurgitating what others have said regardless of whether they knew what they were talking about.
I will give you that it is probably true that most of the people in the U.S. who qualify as poor are probably better off then they would be if they lived somewhere like Haiti and were poor. Personally, I hope the U.S. never reaches the point were poor people live under the same conditions as they do in third world countries. But....anything is possible, isn't it?
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Politicians buy votes with tax payer money, force the federal government to do what they are constitutionally allowed to do and nothing else. The gravy train stops............
Don't forget all the politicians who get elected on corporate money. Of course big business never asks for special favors in return....right?
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Don't forget all the politicians who get elected on corporate money. Of course big business never asks for special favors in return....right?
And if the federal government could only do what they were constitutionally allowed, corporate money wouldn't matter now would it.....
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And if the federal government could only do what they were constitutionally allowed, corporate money wouldn't matter now would it.....
You do realize that legislators and congress pass laws. Think about the banking industry and deregulation. Following the savings and loan crisis many years back, there was talk about regulating the banking industry. Did that happen? I didn't notice. Think of the recent financial collapse and the banking industries role is this.
I do believe that government is constitutionally allowed to enact new laws which often overwrite the old ones; maybe they shouldn't be. Maybe every piece of government business should be done by initiative petition (the vote of the people). -If someone could just figure out how to get the people to actually care enough to vote. Me thinks it is far easier to put these decisions in the hands of politicians so that when things go haywire, we all have someone to blame.
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You do realize that legislators and congress pass laws. Think about the banking industry and deregulation. Following the savings and loan crisis many years back, there was talk about regulating the banking industry. Did that happen? I didn't notice. Think of the recent financial collapse and the banking industries role is this.
I do believe that government is constitutionally allowed to enact new laws which often overwrite the old ones; maybe they shouldn't be. Maybe every piece of government business should be done by initiative petition (the vote of the people). -If someone could just figure out how to get the people to actually care enough to vote. Me thinks it is far easier to put these decisions in the hands of politicians so that when things go haywire, we all have someone to blame.
The constitution lays out exactly what the federal government is allowed to do, the rest is up to the states. The civil war marked the end of states rights and cluster fuck we have now
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So it would seem, your answer to everything is to simply move. To hell with being where your family is. Can't afford to rent a moving truck? Sell all that shit and get new....oh wait, you don't have a job yet, so you won't be able to do that.
Likewise, if your job doesn't pay enough quit and get a new one. Oh wait on this too, what if no one is hiring. You'd be out of a job with no prospects. BTW experts advise that employed folks are much more likely to be hired then someone who is unemployed. Guess you better rethink quitting that old low paying job until you find the new one, huh?
I am in complete agreement that people making minimum wage probably cannot afford to have kids. What about people who make a good wage, have kids and then something changes like they get laid off or fired and they take a lesser or minimum wage position as a stopgap so as to not end up on welfare? I guess they could sell their kids if they are still young enough to be marketable.
I don't know if a person making minimum wage should be able to make ends meet these days. I am not sure I ever made minimum wage even in the days when I thought my wages were too little. I always made ends meet somehow. but that was a very different time then it is today. How do you know that a person making minimum wage should be doing just fine? Have you ever been in this situation and if so, when were you in it?
I see a lot of guessing and finger pointing going on here. Also a lot of exaggerations, not to mention regurgitating what others have said regardless of whether they knew what they were talking about.
I will give you that it is probably true that most of the people in the U.S. who qualify as poor are probably better off then they would be if they lived somewhere like Haiti and were poor. Personally, I hope the U.S. never reaches the point were poor people live under the same conditions as they do in third world countries. But....anything is possible, isn't it?
life sucks all around, nut up and do what you need to do to get by...If that means moving even though you have a life somewhere and the kids you cant afford are happy tough shit
I agree its easier to get a job if you have one already, that doesnt mean you cant get a job without one. Fact is there are plenty of jobs out there, just not plenty of jobs for people with shitty educations, bad work records and lack of experience.
Fact of the matter is if you have the skills and education you can get a good job.
Fact of the matter is education is available to all that are mentally capable of achieving it.
Fact of the matter is people overcome their circumstances and issues everyday. You did it, I did it and millions of others do it everyday.
Why should we expect less?
soft bigotry of low expectations...Im sorry if you arent mentally or physically disabled you need to pull your fucking weight.
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Politicians buy votes with tax payer money, force the federal government to do what they are constitutionally allowed to do and nothing else. The gravy train stops............
I dont see it stopping. Even most of the loudest anti-obama, anti-spending repubs still took all that stim money, lol. Google any of them - they are cool with pork in their own state. in an election, they will HAVE to detail their cuts, which means they lose those votes. "I'm going to stop X, Y, and Z subsidies" will balance the budget, but will lose you two million people that work/support the X,Y,Z industries. It's why politicians are always so vague. Then it's why they don't cut anything - they want to be re-elected lol.
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why is this tread still going,just as long as the right on here are fine with subsidizing the pay of the walmart worker,then that's great.And to use the argument better yourself and move on is wonderful but don't forget someone else is moving in to those jobs,so the wheel goes round and round. And all the time the Walton family is laughing at the idiots backing them ;D So we shouldn't see any more posts about welfare and food stamps,yeah right ;D ;D
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why is this tread still going,just as long as the right on here are fine with subsidizing the pay of the walmart worker,then that's great.And to use the argument better yourself and move on is wonderful but don't forget someone else is moving in to those jobs,so the wheel goes round and round. And all the time the Walton family is laughing at the idiots backing them ;D So we shouldn't see any more posts about welfare and food stamps,yeah right ;D ;D
I hate to break the news to you, Walmart is in business to make a profit, not make cashiers rich, don't like it find work elsewhere. This isn't Soviet Russia where you have no choice.
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I hate to break the news to you, Walmart is in business to make a profit, not make cashiers rich, don't like it find work elsewhere. This isn't Soviet Russia where you have no choice.
I hate to break it to you but all business are here to make a profit but also pay a living wage not a wage to get rich on but a living wage.just as long as you don't have a problem subsidizing their wages then you shouldn't have a problem with the way walmart does business And to use the argument better yourself and move on is wonderful but don't forget someone else is moving in to those jobs,so the wheel goes round and round.
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I hate to break it to you but all business are here to make a profit but also pay a living wage not a wage to get rich on but a living wage.just as long as you don't have a problem subsidizing their wages then you shouldn't have a problem with the way walmart does business And to use the argument better yourself and move on is wonderful but don't forget someone else is moving in to those jobs,so the wheel goes round and round.
Why would I be OK with subsidizing someone's wages? It's not my fault they have no marketable skills, cry me a fucking river. Like I said this isn't Soviet Russia, no one is forced to work at walmart or shop there. Someones else's poor life choices, lack or skill, and lack of education is not my problem, well that was until the government decided to make it my problem.
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Why would I be OK with subsidizing someone's wages? It's not my fault they have no marketable skills, cry me a fucking river. Like I said this isn't Soviet Russia, no one is forced to work at walmart or shop there. Someones else's poor life choices, lack or skill, and lack of education is not my problem, well that was until the government decided to make it my problem.
hahaha you see it is your problem so carry on :D :D :D :D i'm sure the waltons will send you a thank you letter :D
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I hate to break it to you but all business are here to make a profit but also pay a living wage not a wage to get rich on but a living wage.just as long as you don't have a problem subsidizing their wages then you shouldn't have a problem with the way walmart does business And to use the argument better yourself and move on is wonderful but don't forget someone else is moving in to those jobs,so the wheel goes round and round.
Yes I know why should we expect anyone who isnt physically or mentally disabled to pull their own weight.
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hahaha you see it is your problem so carry on :D :D :D :D i'm sure the waltons will send you a thank you letter :D
I don't shop at Walmart, and they only reason I have any concern over this is because the left wing do gooders out there, as usual will screw 95% to benefit the 5%. Again this isn't soviet russia, no is forced to work or shop at walmart
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Yes I know why should we expect anyone who isnt physically or mentally disabled to pull their own weight.
Yep simply by being born in America you are entitled to the good life...........
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I dont see it stopping. Even most of the loudest anti-obama, anti-spending repubs still took all that stim money, lol. Google any of them - they are cool with pork in their own state. in an election, they will HAVE to detail their cuts, which means they lose those votes. "I'm going to stop X, Y, and Z subsidies" will balance the budget, but will lose you two million people that work/support the X,Y,Z industries. It's why politicians are always so vague. Then it's why they don't cut anything - they want to be re-elected lol.
A person much wiser than me once said that a politician's main job is to get elected and later reelected.
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I don't shop at Walmart, and they only reason I have any concern over this is because the left wing do gooders out there, as usual will screw 95% to benefit the 5%. Again this isn't soviet russia, no is forced to work or shop at walmart
hes saying that wal mart is making it your problem by pahing them lesd than a living wage, so that they go and get on welfare. The thing is, its not fucking wal marts fault that the government hands out money to people making minimum wage.... theyre just following the law.
Honestly IMHO those employees shoukdnt be getting welfare if theyre employed and single with no kids... they can live just fine on what wal mart pays by themselves..... trust me.
its just that they want to have all the luxuries afforded to people with real skillz and a real career, so eather than working to get it, they just keep working at wal mart and then go jump on welfare to supplement their income, which is horseshit.
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A person much wiser than me once said that a politician's main job is to get elected and later reelected.
probably true. but there are some people who run that just have bigger things in mind, bigger goals. Sure, they might not get re-elected in congress, but they might build such an amazing reputation at 'change' that they get scooped for the veep slot ;)
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hes saying that wal mart is making it your problem by pahing them lesd than a living wage, so that they go and get on welfare. The thing is, its not fucking wal marts fault that the government hands out money to people making minimum wage.... theyre just following the law.
Honestly IMHO those employees shoukdnt be getting welfare if theyre employed and single with no kids... they can live just fine on what wal mart pays by themselves..... trust me.
its just that they want to have all the luxuries afforded to people with real skillz and a real career, so eather than working to get it, they just keep working at wal mart and then go jump on welfare to supplement their income, which is horseshit.
It really doesn't matter, stocking shelves or scanning items are not high demand or high levels of skill. Why is there a federal minimum wage? Where did the federal government get the authority?
I have come to the conclusion that this generation is the zero responsibility generation. Have no skills and make little money, its walmarts fault. Go ape shit and kill a bunch of people, its violent video games fault. The federal government just re-enforces this thought process with all there fucking hand outs. Why better yourself when you can blame some other entity and get hand outs?
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Yep simply by being born in America you are entitled to the good life...........
finally, someone gets it!
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maybe it's coming around
"Although the Walton family made out like bandits last year and the outgoing CEO of Walmart Stores, Inc, Michael T Duke, took home nearly $20m in compensation, the company is not actually doing very well. The US stores have reported shrinking sales for three straight quarters. In a rare moment of clarity, the president and CEO of Walmart US, William Simon, attributed the drop in sales to the over stretched incomes of the low wage consumer the store typically attracts. He explained:
Their income is going down while food costs are not. Gas and energy prices, while they're abating, I think they're still eating up a big piece of the customer's budget.
The irony, of course, is that by paying so many of its 1.3 million employees poverty wages, and setting a low bar for wages across the board, the company is eating into its customer base and thus may be contributing to its own decline."
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maybe it's coming around
"Although the Walton family made out like bandits last year and the outgoing CEO of Walmart Stores, Inc, Michael T Duke, took home nearly $20m in compensation, the company is not actually doing very well. The US stores have reported shrinking sales for three straight quarters. In a rare moment of clarity, the president and CEO of Walmart US, William Simon, attributed the drop in sales to the over stretched incomes of the low wage consumer the store typically attracts. He explained:
Their income is going down while food costs are not. Gas and energy prices, while they're abating, I think they're still eating up a big piece of the customer's budget.
The irony, of course, is that by paying so many of its 1.3 million employees poverty wages, and setting a low bar for wages across the board, the company is eating into its customer base and thus may be contributing to its own decline."
blacken define "poor" for us
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blacken define "poor" for us
You, you fucking moron.
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You, you fucking moron.
thanks abby, but shouldnt you be resting for your next occupy protest, dont forget to take pictures with your iphone while sipping your starbucks coffee.
now fuck off to whatever starbucks/headshop you work part time at leave the grown up talk to grown ups
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thanks abby, but shouldnt you be resting for your next occupy protest, dont forget to take pictures with your iphone while sipping your starbucks coffee.
now fuck off to whatever starbucks/headshop you work part time at leave the grown up talk to grown ups
ok.
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It really doesn't matter, stocking shelves or scanning items are not high demand or high levels of skill. Why is there a federal minimum wage? Where did the federal government get the authority?
I have come to the conclusion that this generation is the zero responsibility generation. Have no skills and make little money, its walmarts fault. Go ape shit and kill a bunch of people, its violent video games fault. The federal government just re-enforces this thought process with all there fucking hand outs. Why better yourself when you can blame some other entity and get hand outs?
I've come to the conclusion that there are many folks like you who have no knowledge of U.S. labor history and who base everything they say on personal opinions instead of facts.
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I've come to the conclusion that there are many folks like you who have no knowledge of U.S. labor history and who base everything they say on personal opinions instead of facts.
this coming from the guy who denies that facts from census data are facts....OK
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this coming from the guy who denies that facts from census data are facts....OK
Wrong, as usual.
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It really doesn't matter, stocking shelves or scanning items are not high demand or high levels of skill. Why is there a federal minimum wage? Where did the federal government get the authority?
I have come to the conclusion that this generation is the zero responsibility generation. Have no skills and make little money, its walmarts fault. Go ape shit and kill a bunch of people, its violent video games fault. The federal government just re-enforces this thought process with all there fucking hand outs. Why better yourself when you can blame some other entity and get hand outs?
LOLOLOL from the generation that brought you the depression, the great recession,the housing and stock market collapse, the banking scandals, global warming and much more, you baby boomer guys raped the earth with the more for me attitude, now the shits hitting the fan. The population grows and humanity will be tested. Life will get harder and harder for all but a few.Basic nesecitits like computers will not be cheap, things we take for granted like satelite dishes won't work as good and things will generally be more.... not good.
video games where recently studied and found that the violence was cathartic and kids who didn't play games where way more likely to be serial killers. Also, they took a group of kids in a double blinded study and had one group play E games (everyone) versus M games (mature) the E games kids were more aggressive, while the study concluded that the M game players "displayed metrosexual tendencies and dainty mannerisms", so that completely counters your point.
I think you are wrong
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this coming from the guy who denies that facts from census data are facts....OK
so you admit the majority of poor people in the US spend frivolously on shit they dont need?
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LOLOLOL from the generation that brought you the depression, the great recession,the housing and stock market collapse, the banking scandals, global warming and much more, you baby boomer guys raped the earth with the more for me attitude, now the shits hitting the fan. The population grows and humanity will be tested. Life will get harder and harder for all but a few.Basic nesecitits like computers will not be cheap, things we take for granted like satelite dishes won't work as good and things will generally be more.... not good.
video games where recently studied and found that the violence was cathartic and kids who didn't play games where way more likely to be serial killers. Also, they took a group of kids in a double blinded study and had one group play E games (everyone) versus M games (mature) the E games kids were more aggressive, while the study concluded that the M game players "displayed metrosexual tendencies and dainty mannerisms", so that completely counters your point.
I think you are wrong
post the link to your studies, you have been wrong on to many things to take your word
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I've come to the conclusion that there are many folks like you who have no knowledge of U.S. labor history and who base everything they say on personal opinions instead of facts.
Fucking please, I am well aware of the history of US labor. What facts have presented? I have been successful in computers, but I have no illusion that I am not replaceable. My mortgage is paid off my cars are paid for, so guess what if I had to work at Walmart I could still get by.
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LOLOLOL from the generation that brought you the depression, the great recession,the housing and stock market collapse, the banking scandals, global warming and much more, you baby boomer guys raped the earth with the more for me attitude, now the shits hitting the fan. The population grows and humanity will be tested. Life will get harder and harder for all but a few.Basic nesecitits like computers will not be cheap, things we take for granted like satelite dishes won't work as good and things will generally be more.... not good.
video games where recently studied and found that the violence was cathartic and kids who didn't play games where way more likely to be serial killers. Also, they took a group of kids in a double blinded study and had one group play E games (everyone) versus M games (mature) the E games kids were more aggressive, while the study concluded that the M game players "displayed metrosexual tendencies and dainty mannerisms", so that completely counters your point.
I think you are wrong
Sorry but I'm not old enough to be a baby boomer.
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I hate to break it to you but all business are here to make a profit but also pay a living wage not a wage to get rich on but a living wage.just as long as you don't have a problem subsidizing their wages then you shouldn't have a problem with the way walmart does business And to use the argument better yourself and move on is wonderful but don't forget someone else is moving in to those jobs,so the wheel goes round and round.
So what do you propose the government should do about this?
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So what do you propose the government should do about this?
who said anything about the gov. how about the waltons treat their employees a little better,nobodys asking to get rich just make enough to live on so the tax payer doesn't have to subsidize their pay.i'm sure the the waltons can live on 15 billion a year :D
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who said anything about the gov. how about the waltons treat their employees a little better,nobodys asking to get rich just make enough to live on so the tax payer doesn't have to subsidize their pay.i'm sure the the waltons can live on 15 billion a year :D
Maybe I don't understand your point. Are you just complaining about their wages, or are you suggesting something be done about it?
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so you admit the majority of poor people in the US spend frivolously on shit they dont need?
No.
I was thinking about some of the items listed as being frivolous. One thing that struck me was the microwave. You can buy a microwave new for $50 or less. Some efficiency apartments don't have cooking facilities other than a microwave. This suggests that at least in some cases a microwave is a necessity. I have already posted how I feel about cell phones being essential if one hopes to find and keep employment. I've read where some employers insist on applicants providing a phone number or they don't consider the application.
Big flat screen TV's do seem unnecessary. When I was first on my own. I didn't have any television. Didn't really want one either. I preferred reading.
For some people owning a car is a luxury and for others who live in more rural areas, it is a necessity. Owning an auto, considering payments, upkeep gas and insurance has become a major expense. I imagine this is one reason why many poor people gravitate to major cities where a car is not necessary. A one month pass on Tri-Met is $100. Unless someone lives close enough to walk or bike to work and the store, this is the least they'd spend on transportation in the Portland Metro area.
Air conditioning in Portland, OR. is a definitely a luxury since we rarely have more then a few days at a time when it is hot here in the summer. I don't have air-conditioning in my home mainly because we've just never needed it. We do have forced air heat though. That is a necessity. It is 43 out today.
I don't smoke, so cigarettes definitely seem like a frivolous item. Alcohol is too. I can't think of a reason some has to drink it.
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Fucking please, I am well aware of the history of US labor. What facts have presented? I have been successful in computers, but I have no illusion that I am not replaceable. My mortgage is paid off my cars are paid for, so guess what if I had to work at Walmart I could still get by.
Bully for you. You are an anomaly in the world today.
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Big flat screen TV's do seem unnecessary.
:o Blasphemy!!
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I've never seen so many people on here who think their shit don't stink,i don't know if it's because they can hide behind their computer monitor or they're are truly just pompous asses :D
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I've never seen so many people on here who think their shit don't stink,i don't know if it's because they can hide behind their computer monitor or they're are truly just pompous asses :D
Are you just complaining about their wages, or are you suggesting something be done about it?
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No.
I was thinking about some of the items listed as being frivolous. One thing that struck me was the microwave. You can buy a microwave new for $50 or less. Some efficiency apartments don't have cooking facilities other than a microwave. This suggests that at least in some cases a microwave is a necessity. I have already posted how I feel about cell phones being essential if one hopes to find and keep employment. I've read where some employers insist on applicants providing a phone number or they don't consider the application.
Big flat screen TV's do seem unnecessary. When I was first on my own. I didn't have any television. Didn't really want one either. I preferred reading.
For some people owning a car is a luxury and for others who live in more rural areas, it is a necessity. Owning an auto, considering payments, upkeep gas and insurance has become a major expense. I imagine this is one reason why many poor people gravitate to major cities where a car is not necessary. A one month pass on Tri-Met is $100. Unless someone lives close enough to walk or bike to work and the store, this is the least they'd spend on transportation in the Portland Metro area.
Air conditioning in Portland, OR. is a definitely a luxury since we rarely have more then a few days at a time when it is hot here in the summer. I don't have air-conditioning in my home mainly because we've just never needed it. We do have forced air heat though. That is a necessity. It is 43 out today.
I don't smoke, so cigarettes definitely seem like a frivolous item. Alcohol is too. I can't think of a reason some has to drink it.
so seeing as most "poor" have at least one tv
YOU CAN AGREE THAT MOST POOR SPEND AT LEAST SOME MONEY ON FRIVOLOUS SHIT?
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I've never seen so many people on here who think their shit don't stink,i don't know if it's because they can hide behind their computer monitor or they're are truly just pompous asses :D
im sorry we have higher expectations for people who arent mentally or physically disabled.
Soft bigotry of low expectations
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thanks abby, but shouldnt you be resting for your next occupy protest, dont forget to take pictures with your iphone while sipping your starbucks coffee.
now fuck off to whatever starbucks/headshop you work part time at leave the grown up talk to grown ups
grown up talk?
here? on a steroid site?
pleeease.
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/majority-of-americans-want-minimum-wage-to-be-increased-poll-finds/2013/12/17/b6724bb0-6743-11e3-ae56-22de072140a2_story.html
Majority of Americans want minimum wage to be increased, poll finds
A large majority of Americans want Congress to substantially increase the minimum wage as part of an effort to reduce the nation’s expanding economic inequality, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll.
As a growing share of the country’s income flows to the very wealthiest, the poll found that 57 percent of Americans say lawmakers should pursue policies aimed at balancing an economic system they think is out of whack. Nearly two in three say federal policy is tilted toward helping the rich over Americans who are less well-off, according to the survey.
The findings come as President Obama has moved to refocus national attention on the problems of inequality and decreasing social mobility. Earlier this month, he called confronting the twin issues “the defining challenge of our time.” He added that “making sure our economy works for every working American” will be a central task of his remaining time in office.
Obama recently came out in favor of rasing the minimum wage to $10.10 an hour — a much larger increase than he had proposed in his State of the Union address in February, when he advocated raising it to $9 an hour.
Increasing the minimum wage, which has stood at $7.25 an hour since 2009, is one of the chief policy tools economists recommend to address inequality. It is also popular among everyday Americans: About two in three say the wage floor should be lifted, and the average wage suggested is $9.41 an hour.
The idea of using public policy to combat inequality is much more popular among Democrats and independents than it is among Republicans. Three in four Democrats and 58 percent of independents say Washington should pursue policies to address inequality, a sentiment that was shared by just two in five Republicans.
A similar divide is evident when it comes to the minimum wage. Eighty-five percent of Democrats support raising the wage, while Republicans are split 50-45 on the issue, the poll found.
Republicans support a lower wage floor than Democrats, when asked separately about their preferred dollar amount. On average, Democrats favor a minimum wage of just over $10, while Republicans want it to be about $8.60 an hour. Independents fall in between, supporting an average minimum wage of about $9.40 an hour. All three groups set their preferred minimum wage higher than the current $7.25, but far below a $15 wage sought by some worker advocates.
Although partisans disagree about what should be done about inequality, economists say the issue has reached dimensions not seen since the years preceding the Great Depression.
Whether calculated by comparing the growth in wages of the highest-income Americans with the lowest, or the proportion of wealth controlled by the richest Americans, or the ratio of wages for production workers to those of chief executives, inequality has grown. Americans have consistently called for government to aim policies at shrinking the gap.
Two years ago, when the Occupy Wall Street movement helped move the issue into the mainstream of political debate, a Post-ABC poll found that more than six in 10 perceived a widening wealth gap and 60 percent wanted Washington to pursue policy to address it, similar to today’s 57 percent mark. In the fall of 2012, 52 percent of registered voters shared that sentiment.
Although some policymakers point to minimum-wage increases, more widespread unionization, better education opportunities and bolstering income-support programs such as the Earned Income Tax Credit as possible remedies, enacting those policies has always proved difficult.
“A majority of the public might favor some policies that the minority that has the most influence is less enthusiastic about,” said Martin Gilens, a politics professor at Princeton University. “On some policies, there is ambivalence among the public. While there is strong support for opportunity-enhancing policies to reduce inequality, there is less support for directly redistributive policies.”
Obama has periodically invoked inequality as a problem and promised to address it. Yet economic inequality has only widened on his watch.
Between 2009 and 2012, the incomes of the top 1 percent of earners grew by more than 31 percent, according to Emmanuel Saez, an economist at the University of California at Berkeley, while the incomes of the bottom 99 percent expanded by just 0.4 percent.
“He’s got a Republican House and even members of the Democratic Party who are strongly aligned with business interest, who are at best ambivalent about some of these policies that certainly are not popular among business interests that have to foot the bill,” Gilens said. “When you have divided government and multiple veto points, policies that even a majority of people support can be difficult to adopt.”
The new Post-ABC poll was conducted Dec. 12-15 among a random national sample of 1,005 adults, including interviews on land lines and with cellphone-only respondents. The overall margin of sampling error is plus or minus 3.5 percentage points.
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Walmart in northeast Ohio is holding a holiday canned food drive — for its own underpaid employees. “Please Donate Food Items Here, so Associates in Need Can Enjoy Thanksgiving Dinner,” a sign reads in the employee lounge of a Canton-area Walmart.
Kory Lundberg, a Walmart spokesman, says the drive is a positive thing. “This is part of the company’s culture to rally around associates and take care of them when they face extreme hardships,” he said. Indeed, Lundberg is correct that it’s commendable to make an effort to help out those who are in need, especially during the holidays.
But the need for a food drive illustrates how difficult it is for Walmart workers to get by on its notoriously low pay. The company has long been plagued by charges that it doesn’t pay its employees a real living wage. In fact, Walmart’s President and CEO, Bill Simon, recently estimated that the majority of its one million associates make less than $25,000 per year, just above the federal poverty line of $23,550 for a family of four. When the Washington DC city council passed a living wage bill requiring Walmart to pay workers a minimum of $12.50 per hour, the chain threatened to shut down its new stores if Mayor Vincent Gray didn’t veto the bill. Gray vetoed the bill.
Walmart’s low wages come at a public cost. Because low-income workers still need housing and health care, taxpayers end up doling out millions in benefits to bridge the gap faced by many of the store’s retail workers. They have also led to strikes at Walmart stores from Seattle to Chicago to Los Angeles in recent weeks.
Read more: http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/11/18/2960371/walmart-food-drive/
A wal mart job is a stopover like working at taco bell.
You do for a summer asa kid.
Its not a career.
If its underpaid then go get paid more elsewhere.
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so seeing as most "poor" have at least one tv
YOU CAN AGREE THAT MOST POOR SPEND AT LEAST SOME MONEY ON FRIVOLOUS SHIT?
So you get to define what is 'frivolous' and what isn't?
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So you get to define what is 'frivolous' and what isn't?
that word looks gay, like fabulous, tony would use that over a more gender neutral word like wasteful. He went out of his way to use that word, pre-meditated gaydom.
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www.fairtax.org
www.fairtax.org (http://www.fairtax.org)
end irs
tax spending
hit the rich
let poor save
no loops
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that word looks gay, like fabulous, tony would use that over a more gender neutral word like wasteful. He went out of his way to use that word, pre-meditated gaydom.
Yikes!
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Yikes!
arent you a gay old man? no disrespect intended
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arent you a gay old man? no disrespect intended
I am an old man. My sexual preferences are irrelevant. And no, I am not gay. My wife and I have been married for nearly 50 years. We have two biological, now grown children. I experimented sexually when I was young, not unlike a lot of young people do.
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I am an old man. My sexual preferences are irrelevant. And no, I am not gay. My wife and I have been married for nearly 50 years. We have two biological, now grown children. I experimented sexually when I was young, not unlike a lot of young people do.
I believe it was True Adonis whose grandfather once said, "if you suck one cox, you're a cox-sucker".
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lol @ the rich wanker trying to justify low wages.
Schiff is nothing more than a con man.
All of those people refused Schiff because he's a cnut - they just had their bullshit detectors on - would you really give that tw@t a dollar?
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lol @ the rich wanker trying to justify low wages.
Schiff is nothing more than a con man.
All of those people refused Schiff because he's a cnut - they just had their bullshit detectors on - would you really give that tw@t a dollar?
as opposed to the "poor" people with frivolous spending habits trying to justify not bettering themselves and expecting others to help them....
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as opposed to the "poor" people with frivolous spending habits trying to justify not bettering themselves and expecting others to help them....
There you are Tommy - I thought you had disappeared for good after my last question to you.
In terms of bettering yourself, you do realize that here are many people for who this is as good as they get, right?
My son has learning disabilities. Specifically he had language development issues. Fortunately, I was in a position where I could pay for an intervention. Where I live there is zero government help. 7 years ago you could ask my 4 year old son what he wanted for lunch and he'd either look right through you or say "spiderman, spiderman, spiderman". He WAS rain man.
So into ATOC - a special school in Bangkok at $27,000 per year and 2 years later he's back in the regular school system. He's 11 now and we did have to have another intervention when he was 8 and we may need to have another as high school progresses - he's nowhere near the bottom of the class and he's top of the class in IT.
So - whilst you may be very bored right now.
Question 1: Let's say I wasn't in a position to help him and he'd not got the help he needed. Let's say he was language deficient but hard working and the only job he could get was Wal Mart full time. Would it be right, in your opinion to pay a hard working yet 'different' person a wage that assured they could not pay for their own accommodation and food.
If so - what, in your opinion, would be the result? Would it be a man living in the streets and working at Wal Mart? Would it be a man living off Wal Mart + benefits? What exactly are the options here? Seems to me you either have more homeless people or more people living off the state if you accept that employers do not need to pay a living wage.
Question 2: let's say the parent (i.e. me) was working Wal Mart and could not afford the additional education support for a special needs kid. Should the child be denied the intervention required and end up homeless or living off the state? Or should the state intervene and pay the necessary to ensure that child developed to the best of their abilities.
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There you are Tommy - I thought you had disappeared for good after my last question to you.
In terms of bettering yourself, you do realize that here are many people for who this is as good as they get, right?
My son has learning disabilities. Specifically he had language development issues. Fortunately, I was in a position where I could pay for an intervention. Where I live there is zero government help. 7 years ago you could ask my 4 year old son what he wanted for lunch and he'd either look right through you or say "spiderman, spiderman, spiderman". He WAS rain man.
So into ATOC - a special school in Bangkok at $27,000 per year and 2 years later he's back in the regular school system. He's 11 now and we did have to have another intervention when he was 8 and we may need to have another as high school progresses - he's nowhere near the bottom of the class and he's top of the class in IT.
So - whilst you may be very bored right now.
Question 1: Let's say I wasn't in a position to help him and he'd not got the help he needed. Let's say he was language deficient but hard working and the only job he could get was Wal Mart full time. Would it be right, in your opinion to pay a hard working yet 'different' person a wage that assured they could not pay for their own accommodation and food.
If so - what, in your opinion, would be the result? Would it be a man living in the streets and working at Wal Mart? Would it be a man living off Wal Mart + benefits? What exactly are the options here? Seems to me you either have more homeless people or more people living off the state if you accept that employers do not need to pay a living wage.
Question 2: let's say the parent (i.e. me) was working Wal Mart and could not afford the additional education support for a special needs kid. Should the child be denied the intervention required and end up homeless or living off the state? Or should the state intervene and pay the necessary to ensure that child developed to the best of their abilities.
first youre talking about a very very small percentage of the population that have issues such as your sons or other learning disabilities that prevent them from bettering themselves...ADHD doesnt count...so lets talk about the norm as that is what the majority of these people are.
second we are going to limit these discussison to the US as that is the only place that matters in terms of raising the minimum wage as it pertains to this discussion.
question 1: there are plenty of govt programs to help a person such as your son but guess what? you are in the position to do what you did b/c you bettered yourself. You didnt sit on your ass, spend frivilously and expect others to support you.
question 2: again the state already has plenty of programs to help a child such as that. It is not my nor anyone elses responsbility to make sure that he is successful.
Now my questions:
Question 1: You do realize that you are talking about a fraction of society that have disabilities that prevent them from bettering themself, right?
Question 2: You do realize that the vast majority of people working at walmart have the ability to better themselves and get better jobs, right?
question 3: why do you have such low expectations for people who have the ability to be better but CHOOOOOSEEEEE not to?
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A wal mart job is a stopover like working at taco bell.
You do for a summer asa kid.
Its not a career.
If its underpaid then go get paid more elsewhere.
But isn't this the point, you are barking up the wrong tree.
You seem to think peole wouldn't relish a more skilled job with higher pay, THERE ARE NONE. work as hard as you want, there are no jobs out there, people are looking and giving up.
The plutocracy won't allow it. It is a career now as is welfare, the jobs are gone.
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But isn't this the point, you are barking up the wrong tree.
You seem to think peole wouldn't relish a more skilled job with higher pay, THERE ARE NONE. work as hard as you want, there are no jobs out there, people are looking and giving up.
The plutocracy won't allow it. It is a career now as is welfare, the jobs are gone.
actually there are plenty....plenty of jobs for higher educated individuals, plenty of jobs for people willing to do manual labor.
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But isn't this the point, you are barking up the wrong tree.
You seem to think peole wouldn't relish a more skilled job with higher pay, THERE ARE NONE. work as hard as you want, there are no jobs out there, people are looking and giving up.
The plutocracy won't allow it. It is a career now as is welfare, the jobs are gone.
wow..
Wrong, wrong and wrong. You dont even live here, how the hell would you know? There are plenty of jobs here... dont believe what MSNBC feeds you trying to scare you... I dont know anyone with any marketable skills that are still looking for work...
if you want work, its out there.
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tons of work
problem is those on welfare jobs have never really worked
marx mistake was to think all jobs are productive labor
much activity is called labor that is non productive
lawyers best example
free market would minimize these things
only governmetn keep non productive lawyers n academs in silk, with stolen money from taxpayer
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actually there are plenty....plenty of jobs for higher educated individuals, plenty of jobs for people willing to do manual labor.
good gardeners are hard to find.
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wow..
Wrong, wrong and wrong. You dont even live here, how the hell would you know? There are plenty of jobs here... dont believe what MSNBC feeds you trying to scare you... I dont know anyone with any marketable skills that are still looking for work...
if you want work, its out there.
So unemployment is actually low and your conservative friends lied when they said Obama has not done a good job creating jobs? ;D
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So unemployment is actually low and your conservative friends lied when they said Obama has not done a good job creating jobs? ;D
damn it your idiocy is almost to much at times...
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damn it your idiocy is almost to much at times...
Unemplayment is sky high the worst ever and its the dem fault.
but when...
People wants to raise minimum wage? There is plenty of jobs for everyone.
Please explain Tony im sure you have a BS reason for this but lets hear it.
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Unemplayment is sky high the worst ever and its the dem fault.
but when...
People wants to raise minimum wage? There is plenty of jobs for everyone.
Please explain Tony im sure you have a BS reason for this but lets hear it.
facepalm...AGAIN, there are plenty of jobs for THOSE WITH HIGHER EDUCATION, MARKETABLE SKILLS or WILLINGNESS TO DO JOBS OTHERS WONT.
simply b/c there is high unemployment doesnt mean that we dont have jobs available, only a moron would make the conclusion...congrats moron
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So unemployment is actually low and your conservative friends lied when they said Obama has not done a good job creating jobs? ;D
Obama hasn't created shit. And UE doesn't mean there isn't jobs out there.. it just means people aren't willing to work for whats being offered.
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facepalm...AGAIN, there are plenty of jobs for THOSE WITH HIGHER EDUCATION, MARKETABLE SKILLS or WILLINGNESS TO DO JOBS OTHERS WONT.
simply b/c there is high unemployment doesnt mean that we dont have jobs available, only a moron would make the conclusion...congrats moron
So the only jobs that arent awailable are those for people with no education, no skills and no willingness to do anything others will not do?
Sounds like the employment situation is healthy then wouldnt you say?
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Obama hasn't created shit. And UE doesn't mean there isn't jobs out there.. it just means people aren't willing to work for whats being offered.
It was a joke.
I always hear how unemployment is through the roof but if there are jobs and people just dont want to work then unemployment is really at least somewhat healthy. You cant have both.
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So the only jobs that arent awailable are those for people with no education, no skills and no willingness to do anything others will not do?
Sounds like the employment situation is healthy then wouldnt you say?
I wouldnt go that far but the fact is that there are jobs available to those who qualify or are willing to do them.
There is a big disconnect between the abilities of the work force and the skills needed by employers.
It was a joke.
I always hear how unemployment is through the roof but if there are jobs and people just dont want to work then unemployment is really at least somewhat healthy. You cant have both.
actually both can happen as has been explained...only a moron would think otherwise...