Walmart Holding Canned Food Drive For Its Own Underpaid Employees

[pedro01]

I am not saying nothing else matters, MINIMAL regulations are needed. If there arent other ways for these people to make money and obtain a living then we can talk.

AS OF NOW, there are plenty of jobs...maybe not in their region but plenty of jobs for people with the right skills, education and experience.

sorry you dont get to be uneducated with little skills and or experience and expect to get paid well.

You are skirting the point of the example and it was a very simple example. A bunch of people become unemployed in an area, so an employer fires all their existing staff and offers jobs @ $2 an hour, knowing that some people will be desperate enough to take it.

You are OK with this, right? It's just the free market, not exploitation, right?

You can't answer because you know it is exploitation and it doesn't fit into your "market decides all" philosophy - which is an extremist philosophy. This isn't a black and white issue - capitalism or communism. The market just isn't that good that it can be used to make every decision that needs to be made on the planet.

No system can be trusted to fit all cases and at the end of the day humankind should have aspirations other than profit.

[pedro01]

The world needs ditch diggers too.  

+1

The world needs:

Ditch diggers
Shelf stackers
Toilet cleaners
Strawberry pickers

Why should these jobs not pay a decent wage, exactly? The work isn't hard enough? Too menial?

The world also would prefer people with low IQs/mild mental disabilities to be self-sufficient

Prime at what point is it the individuals responsibility to find full time employment that pays a decent wage?

Why would any employment not pay a decent wage?

I'd say it's everyone's responsibility to find a job and I think that more able people will get better jobs. There needs to be a baseline though.

Are you OK with an employer not paying any salary - just housing and feeding their employees and having them work 12 hours a day? If this is what the free market decides, are you OK with that? If not, then you obviously do have some concept of minimum wage, so the discussion is not really about whether people should be paid fairly but what amount constitutes fair pay.

[pedro01]

FUCKING MOVE!!!!

go to where the jobs are

Obviously, that is very easy to say when it's not you, your wife, your 2 kids moving with you, changing schools, selling your house but not being in a position to get a mortgage on a new one.

[tonymctones]

You are skirting the point of the example and it was a very simple example. A bunch of people become unemployed in an area, so an employer fires all their existing staff and offers jobs @ $2 an hour, knowing that some people will be desperate enough to take it.

You are OK with this, right? It's just the free market, not exploitation, right?

You can't answer because you know it is exploitation and it doesn't fit into your "market decides all" philosophy - which is an extremist philosophy. This isn't a black and white issue - capitalism or communism. The market just isn't that good that it can be used to make every decision that needs to be made on the planet.

No system can be trusted to fit all cases and at the end of the day humankind should have aspirations other than profit.

and once again I stated, MINIMAL REGULATION IS NEEDED

the argument is that if the Market does not provide a living wage then we can talk. THE MARKET PROVIDES A LIVING WAGE!!!!

it may not be at that exact location, but thats why you need to move

Obviously, that is very easy to say when it's not you, your wife, your 2 kids moving with you, changing schools, selling your house but not being in a position to get a mortgage on a new one.

lifes rough all around I guess then, nut up and do what you need to do.

Why do you believe that a person gets to decided what they do for a living, what type of job they want to have, how many kids, what schools, how much they get paid and employers just need to deal with it?

The employers are providing jobs, ITS THE EMPLOYEES RESPONSIBILITY TO GET THEM

[The Showstoppa]

OK - why is that the appropriate in all cases?

Let's say you had a town with an industry employing 500,000 workers. That industry ups and moves to China leaving a huge gap in the  job market there.

Wal Mart then decides to fire all of it's staff and offer up jobs at $2 an hour, knowing that in the pool of 500,000 newly unemployed workers, there will be some desperate enough to take the job.

This is pure market value. It's also exploitation. Not much different from a sweatshop in some 3rd world shitehole.

But it's OK because it's pure market value, right?

Absolutely. If they dont want to accept the $2 then relocate, get mored education , etc....   No company is obligated to take care of an employee. There is no loyalty in either direction. To think that there truly is, is naive. 

[Primemuscle]

hes not wrong..... the gov exists to service the citizens... they take our money by force, and theyre supposed to use it to support its citizens. .. except that they dont, rhey see it that we owe them and work for them, which is bullshit and the citizens need to take control back and make tje gov remember that they exist for us, not vice versa.

Go4it!

[Primemuscle]

hes not wrong..... the gov exists to service the citizens... they take our money by force, and theyre supposed to use it to support its citizens. .. except that they dont, rhey see it that we owe them and work for them, which is bullshit and the citizens need to take control back and make tje gov remember that they exist for us, not vice versa.

Government collects taxes in a manner and amount approved by the citizens who take the time and energy to vote. It only seems like force if you disagree and yet took no appropriate action against it.

Just so you know government employees are not public servants in the sense that they aren't slaves working for the good of others, but paid employees working for the good of all.

Most government employees are just regular working class citizens like most of the rest of the population. The proposition that it is a them verses us agenda is utter bullshit. Even elected officials come from all walks of life and not just the wealthy....although wealth doesn't hurt if you want to get elected and are willing to spend a lot of money and exert a lot of influence based on your power over others, such as was the case with Mitt Romney, although he wasn't successful many others in similar situations are.

[Primemuscle]

it's tricky...

Unions are pretty shady - they influence elections, they do some shady shit with the $, lots of accusations of bribing, etc - They take a lot of dues and do a lot of things most people would call shady.  So on the macro, BAD.

Big business is pretty shady - they influence elections, they do some shady shit with the $, lots of accusations of bribing, etc.

Incidentally, union dues cannot legally be used for political action without the dues payers' consent.

[Primemuscle]

Teachers: “The union members earn $224 a week more than non-union educators, with median weekly earnings at $1,038.”

Firefighters and police officers: “Union workers make about $1,008 a week, and non-union workers make $627.”

Factory workers: “Union workers make about $836 a week, $56 a week more than non-union employees.”

Construction workers: “Union workers earn about $361 more per week than their non-union counterparts.”

Transportation and warehousing workers: “Union employees earn about $215 more per week, or 30%, than non-union workers.”

Utilities workers: “Union employees in this industry tend to earn 10.2% more per week than non-union workers.”

These comparisons may be accurate to a degree. But for it to be a comprehensive comparison, one would need to know where the non-union employee counterparts work.

Teachers, perhaps in parochial and private schools.

Firefighters and police.....are there non-union counterparts to these professions?

Factory workers, there are probably more non-union factory workers than union ones even if you only consider workers in the U.S.

Construction workers - trade unions, I have no idea the ratio of union to non-union here. Non-union workers need not meet any particular requirements to work in these trades while union workers go through rigorous apprenticeships to become journeymen in their field.

Transportation worker and warehouse workers should not be lumped together. These are two very different occupations. My guess is that many more transportation workers are unionized then are warehouse workers.

Are there utility companies that employ non-union workers? That's a scary proposition. I'd hate to think the person working on high power lines or natural gas mains aren't skilled in their trade (see construction workers).

[James28]

So I gather you are an expert on what sales associates are worth at Walmart as compared to other companies. The average grocery clerk at Fred Meyer, a big box chain store operation much like Walmart, makes $22,000. Walmart sales associate positions pay $8.88 hourly. I could find no information for average annual salary. However, if the Fred Meyer grocery clerk wage exampled represents fulltime work the position pays $10. an hour. Walmart notoriously keeps much of their workforce at less then fulltime to avoid paying health and other benefits only afforded fulltime employees.
 

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/09/24/2669191/walmart-adds-fulltime-workers/

The bastards. Man that pisses me off.

Do you know what I'll do if that were me working at Walmart? Wait for it, this is incredible ....;

I'll quit and go elsewhere.

Do you know what I'll do if there weren't any jobs where I live. I'll move. I don't expect to have everything around me, set up for me so I can live where I want.

You people want stuff too easy.

[Primemuscle]

Prime at what point is it the individuals responsibility to find full time employment that pays a decent wage?

From the start. If they need fulltime work to make ends meet, it is their responsibility to seek it. Unfortunately, seeking and finding in today's market are not always synonymous. Have you never taken a stopgap job until you could find something better? Sometimes and for some people these stopgap jobs trap them into years of underemployment.

This doesn't always happen at the onset of seeking for employment. People in the middle or latter part of their working lives are sometimes laid off for a variety of reasons. I know, I've been there. My position was contracted out to a private company when I was 50 years old. While I wasn't laid off, I was put in a position of having to decide between taking a lesser position or quit. I chose to remain employed with the same company. My wages were subsequently frozen for 10 years before I saw another increase in salary. Incidentally, I did seek other employment, but was unsuccessful. No doubt being in my 50's and having a higher salary requirement then someone at the entry level was something of a determent for me. It's a common situation, unfortunately.

I knew of a longtime factory worker for Bingham Willamette in Portland. His position was eliminated when they moved their operation to a third world country and when he was near the end of his working years. He ended up working for a Seven Eleven to pay the bills. Life can be the shits sometimes and those of us who survive often do so because we make sacrifices or compromises we never thought we'd be making.

Imagine some young person just starting out who has a family to support and little or no skills. They pretty much are stuck taking whatever employment they can find. It is not that this is anyone else's fault or responsibility, it just is and it is far too common. If I were the CEO of Walmart, I guess I would say thank goodness for these poor suckers, because they are making me and the company shareholders rich.

[James28]

Absolutely. If they dont want to accept the $2 then relocate, get mored education , etc....   No company is obligated to take care of an employee. There is no loyalty in either direction. To think that there truly is, is naive. 

You're talking to that walls here my man.

Some people will just never be able to take responsibility for their own destinies and want their dirty little asses wiped by the government, and the taxpayers propping up terrible life choices.

I just cannot believe that people are willing to live like that.

[Primemuscle]

The bastards. Man that pisses me off.

Do you know what I'll do if that were me working at Walmart? Wait for it, this is incredible ....;

I'll quit and go elsewhere.

Do you know what I'll do if there weren't any jobs where I live. I'll move. I don't expect to have everything around me, set up for me so I can live where I want.

You people want stuff too easy.

James,

I know you believe what you are saying and that's as it should be. I also hope you are never faced with situations like you describe because I suspect you might end up being a little surprised that believing something and living it are very different.

I honestly don't think people wake up in the morning and say to themselves, I am going to go out and find low paying part time employment today. Tomorrow, maybe I will find something better. Shit happens. Not all the folks working for low wages are doing this by design.

[Primemuscle]

The world needs ditch diggers too. 

This ^

The question isn't so much that the world needs them as whether we need them bad enough to pay them to do what we don't want to do ourselves.

[tonymctones]

From the start. If they need fulltime work to make ends meet, it is their responsibility to seek it. Unfortunately, seeking and finding in today's market are not always synonymous. Have you never taken a stopgap job until you could find something better? Sometimes and for some people these stopgap jobs trap them into years of underemployment.

YUP, been there personally...You know what I did prime?

I went back to school at night while working got ANOTHER degree that was marketable and after graduating and getting a good job went to school at night for my MBA so that I would never have to go through that again....

Dont give me the cry me a river bull shit, these people need to do what they need to do to get a better job. Dont sit there and complain about your situation, do something to better it.

[tonymctones]

Imagine some young person just starting out who has a family to support and little or no skills. They pretty much are stuck taking whatever employment they can find. It is not that this is anyone else's fault or responsibility, it just is and it is far too common. If I were the CEO of Walmart, I guess I would say thank goodness for these poor suckers, because they are making me and the company shareholders rich.

First, WHAT THE FUCK is a young person with no skills doing with a family to support?

SOMEONE ELSES FUCK UPS, should not be our responsibility...PERIOD

Yes prime, idiots making idiotic decisions is FAR TO COMMON. I think we should let these people deal with the consequences of their decisions and maybe their children will learn from their parents mistakes.

[Primemuscle]

whats funny is that the catalyst for your scenario is a business going over seas and you think that forcing the employers to pay more than what the workers are worth wont cause more companies to do the same exact fucking thing

again the business sense of libtards is just fucking non existent

This is the conundrum. If government forces companies to pay workers a competitive wage and in response they can relocate to a third world country where they not only  do not pay a decent wage but pay so little that their profits are increased exponentially, why wouldn't they do this? The answer is fair trade agreements.

In a perfect world, there would be no third world countries with slave labor. But we don't live in a perfect world. America the great was built on greed. Unfortunately, as the middleclass shrinks so does the spending power of the populace. Somewhere in the future, if these things continue as they have for the last several decades, these big companies will be producing or selling products which the bulk of the workers cannot afford to purchase. Governments already cannot keep up with the need for assistance to the working poor who are marginalized in the marketplace. Just a month or so ago, the federal government reduced food stamp allotments for a family of four by $40 a month. No big deal right? It is a big deal because that is $40 which is not going back into the economy or better yet into the Walmart shareholder's pockets. In a sense, companies like Walmart are simply cutting their own throats.

Anyone ever hear of the French Revolution? "Let them eat cake" a much repeated comment misattributed to Marie Antoinette. The downtrodden responded by cutting off her head. Look out Walton family, your heads could be next.

[Primemuscle]

I am not saying nothing else matters, MINIMAL regulations are needed. If there arent other ways for these people to make money and obtain a living then we can talk.

AS OF NOW, there are plenty of jobs...maybe not in their region but plenty of jobs for people with the right skills, education and experience.

sorry you dont get to be uneducated with little skills and or experience and expect to get paid well.

Define paid well. I think many of these folks just want to be paid fairly....forget about paid well.

[James28]

First, WHAT THE FUCK is a young person with no skills doing with a family to support?

SOMEONE ELSES FUCK UPS, should not be our responsibility...PERIOD

Yes prime, idiots making idiotic decisions is FAR TO COMMON. I think we should let these people deal with the consequences of their decisions and maybe their children will learn from their parents mistakes.

I was going to pounce on that right away but was on my phone laying in bed so couldn't easily type a rant to describe what an utter, utter utterly stupid and irresponsible thing that is to do. No wonder these big companies have an endless supply go cheap labour.

Idiotic and irresponsible life choices.

[James28]

Define paid well. I think many of these folks just want to be paid fairly....forget about paid well.

Doesn't have to be defined. It's relative.

[James28]

This is the conundrum. If government forces companies to pay workers a competitive wage and in response they can relocate to a third world country where they not only  do not pay a decent wage but pay so little that their profits are increased exponentially, why wouldn't they do this? The answer is fair trade agreements.

In a perfect world, there would be no third world countries with slave labor. But we don't live in a perfect world. America the great was built on greed. Unfortunately, as the middleclass shrinks so does the spending power of the populace. Somewhere in the future, if these things continue as they have for the last several decades, these big companies will be producing or selling products which the bulk of the workers cannot afford to purchase. Governments already cannot keep up with the need for assistance to the working poor who are marginalized in the marketplace. Just a month or so ago, the federal government reduced food stamp allotments for a family of four by $40 a month. No big deal right? It is a big deal because that is $40 which is not going back into the economy or better yet into the Walmart shareholder's pockets. In a sense, companies like Walmart are simply cutting their own throats.

Anyone ever hear of the French Revolution? "Let them eat cake" a much repeated comment misattributed to Marie Antoinette. The downtrodden responded by cutting off her head. Look out Walton family, your heads could be next.

Companies like Walmart will redefine themselves and redefine their markets. They'll adapt to a changing market. They'll be fine.

It's just a shame their customers are incapable of doing the same.

[Primemuscle]

if you want to argue corporate tax code thats something we can do along with corporate tax rate which is one of the highest in the world. I can actually agree with you on many of the issues you probably have in regards to corporate tax code and reform.

THATS NOT THE ISSUE HERE....

The more education you have the better your employability and the more money you will ultimately make...THATS A FACT
The less education you have the harder it is to get a job and make a good wage...THATS A FACT

you act as if these people are all just down on their luck and have not made decisions that put them in this place.

If there isnt any jobs in your area...FUCKING MOVE MORON!!!!
If you cant get a job b/c you dont have a GED...GET A FUCKING GED MORON, and then get a college education in something that is marketable.

I'll give you that at #2 the 2012 U.S. corporate tax rate is very high. What this statement doesn't address is that the corporate tax rate is significantly close in at least 15 other countries. http://www.gfmag.com/component/content/article/119-economic-data/12526-corporate-tax-by-country.html#axzz2lXOYIFeq.  I suggest a more accurate assessment is to look at total tax burden by country. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_as_percentage_of_GDP. If you look at this chart, you will see that the U.S. isn't all that high compared to other countries. It fact we fall somewhere near the middle worldwide.

[tonymctones]

Define paid well. I think many of these folks just want to be paid fairly....forget about paid well.

more than what the market provides

define "paid fairly"

[tonymctones]

I'll give you that at #2 the 2012 U.S. corporate tax rate is very high. What this statement doesn't address is the at the corporate tax rate is significantly close in at least 15 other countries. http://www.gfmag.com/component/content/article/119-economic-data/12526-corporate-tax-by-country.html#axzz2lXOYIFeq.  I suggest a more accurate assessment is to look at total tax burden by country. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_as_percentage_of_GDP. If you look at this chart, you will see that the U.S. isn't all that high compared to other countries. It fact we fall somewhere near the middle worldwide.

AS IT SHOULD BE...Its our money, not the governments!!!!

[tonymctones]

I'll give you that at #2 the 2012 U.S. corporate tax rate is very high. What this statement doesn't address is the at the corporate tax rate is significantly close in at least 15 other countries. http://www.gfmag.com/component/content/article/119-economic-data/12526-corporate-tax-by-country.html#axzz2lXOYIFeq.  I suggest a more accurate assessment is to look at total tax burden by country. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_as_percentage_of_GDP. If you look at this chart, you will see that the U.S. isn't all that high compared to other countries. It fact we fall somewhere near the middle worldwide.

so what youre saying is there was only one country with a higher tax rate than the US?

why would any business that has the ability to save money by moving operations over sea's NOT DO SO?