Author Topic: Considering the Dental vaccine for your dog? READ THIS FIRST!  (Read 2125 times)

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Considering the Dental vaccine for your dog? READ THIS FIRST!
« on: February 08, 2008, 06:29:47 AM »
http://www.pfizerah.com/product_overview.asp?drug=PH&country=US&lang=EN&species=CN

The Porphyromonas Denticanis-Gulae-Salivosa Bacterin is approved for the vaccination of healthy dogs as an aid in preventing periodontitis, as demonstrated by a reduction in bone changes (osteolysis/osteosclerosis).


The MSDS on this:
http://www.pfizerah.com/PAHimages/msds_us/PH.pdf

"Statement of Hazard: Contains formaldehyde: potential cancer hazard; May cause sensitization of the skin and respiratory system; May cause eye, skin and respiratory tract irritation"


http://www.pfizerah.com/PAHimages/compliance_pdfs/US_EN_PH_compliance.pdf

A reasonable expectation of efficacy has been demonstrated in dogs 8 months of age.


   Now I may be off base here ( ::)), but periodontal disease in 8 month old dogs? Something is seriously wrong when they say 85% of dogs over 3 have periodontal disease, and they say this has worked good with dogs that are only 8 months , why should 8 month old dogs (PUPPIES!) have dental problems?!?! Maybe instead of another vaccine, looking at the CAUSE of dental problems would be better?  Maybe a diet of crapple contributes?   ::) 


  The injecting of more substances in both pets and people instead of addressing the cause of the problems is getting downright scary!  I believe there is an obesity drug for dogs too now.  Unbelievable.



Butterbean

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Re: Considering the Dental vaccine for your dog? READ THIS FIRST!
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2008, 06:37:32 AM »
Dental vaccine?  Seems theres a vaccine for just about everything. :-\


R

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Re: Considering the Dental vaccine for your dog? READ THIS FIRST!
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2008, 07:05:45 AM »
Did you read the MSDS on that?  It's like you have to wear a hazmat suit around it!

   But let's inject it into our pets!!  And they say to do it every 6mos to a year!!


   You know a lot of people will get this.  It is very say what health issues we (we meaning everyone who blindly accepts all these "preventatives") inflict onto our pets.


         :'(

Vet

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Re: Considering the Dental vaccine for your dog? READ THIS FIRST!
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2008, 07:47:11 AM »
http://www.pfizerah.com/product_overview.asp?drug=PH&country=US&lang=EN&species=CN

The Porphyromonas Denticanis-Gulae-Salivosa Bacterin is approved for the vaccination of healthy dogs as an aid in preventing periodontitis, as demonstrated by a reduction in bone changes (osteolysis/osteosclerosis).


The MSDS on this:
http://www.pfizerah.com/PAHimages/msds_us/PH.pdf

"Statement of Hazard: Contains formaldehyde: potential cancer hazard; May cause sensitization of the skin and respiratory system; May cause eye, skin and respiratory tract irritation"


http://www.pfizerah.com/PAHimages/compliance_pdfs/US_EN_PH_compliance.pdf

A reasonable expectation of efficacy has been demonstrated in dogs 8 months of age.


   Now I may be off base here ( ::)), but periodontal disease in 8 month old dogs? Something is seriously wrong when they say 85% of dogs over 3 have periodontal disease, and they say this has worked good with dogs that are only 8 months , why should 8 month old dogs (PUPPIES!) have dental problems?!?! Maybe instead of another vaccine, looking at the CAUSE of dental problems would be better?  Maybe a diet of crapple contributes?   ::) 


  The injecting of more substances in both pets and people instead of addressing the cause of the problems is getting downright scary!  I believe there is an obesity drug for dogs too now.  Unbelievable.




Flower, I know we've had our differences of opinion, but in this case I agree with you completely.  This is a bullshit vaccine. 


The real key to good dental health in any breed of dog is even mentioned in the label:  "professional dental cleaning, periodontal therapy and owner-administrated dental care routines. "


My understanding is Banfield hospitals are setting up to push this one big time too.    I may be wrong with that, but its something for people to think about. 

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Re: Considering the Dental vaccine for your dog? READ THIS FIRST!
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2008, 08:18:15 AM »
  Right on Vet!!!    >:(

  I haven't heard anything good about Banfield. They are in a lot of Petsmart's now and I'm sure they will push this.   I know Banfield is probably an affordable option for some people, but just like  having a primary care physician over just walking into clinics, I think is not good for pets.  I suppose if people are just using them for vacs and still going to their vets (Banfield in Petsmarts are doing surgeries aren't they?) I think it is a kick in the pants to private practice vets.  You are not going to get the same kind of attention at a drivethru vet!

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Re: Considering the Dental vaccine for your dog? READ THIS FIRST!
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2008, 10:30:17 AM »
  Right on Vet!!!    >:(

  I haven't heard anything good about Banfield. They are in a lot of Petsmart's now and I'm sure they will push this.   I know Banfield is probably an affordable option for some people, but just like  having a primary care physician over just walking into clinics, I think is not good for pets.  I suppose if people are just using them for vacs and still going to their vets (Banfield in Petsmarts are doing surgeries aren't they?) I think it is a kick in the pants to private practice vets.  You are not going to get the same kind of attention at a drivethru vet!


Honestly, I figured you'd be the first person on the bandwagon against Banfield.  They have the most extensive vaccination protocol---of which my understanding is mandatory or you aren't a client there---of any group of practices I've ever encountered in practicing medicine in 5 different states and working as a relief veterinarian in all of those states.  Their vaccine protocols border on completely ridiculous.  They also have attempted to justify the money grubbing with publication of some of their "vaccine studies" which need to be looked at very closely.  There have also been multiple cases of vaccines being administered without owners approval and in some cases without the owner even being notified their pet was being vaccinated until they recieved the bill----AND in some anecdotal cases vaccines have been administered and the owners weren't charged or notified. 

I personally have had bad experiences with Banfield.  I used to do contract work with several because the Petsmarts were selling large psitticines (Blue and Gold Macaws, Scarlet Macaws, African Greys, Amazons) and despite there being nearly a dozen and a half veterinarians between the Banfields in Petsmart stores, not one of them would touch a bird, much less correctly address and treat their medical problems.  That is an ongoing problem.  There is one I'm aware of now where one of the smaller psittacines apparently died from Chlaymidiophila (Psittacosis) and was being treated by the instore Banfield vet.   What I've heard through the grapevine is scary--and Ill admit, its second hand information, but when I went to look at what was going on in the store, it appeared to be truthful and I trust my source.  Employees of the store weren't notified of thier risk of catching the disease, the birds were treated inappropriately with antibiotics, they were never removed from public areas, AND the cleaning was done in such a way to spread aerosolized fecal material near the bird toys that were sale to store patrons.  I've pretty much just sworn off Petsmart as a result of that. 

I almost had a job with one a few years back---as an exotic animal practitioner.  I had multiple telephone calls with the owner, met with her, discussed our business plan, had everything lined up--I was coming with an 800+ client list from where I'd been before, so I was essentially a premade practice with a projected gross over $500,000, I just needed a place to practice and equipment.  After a few weeks of negotiations, which included very hard sells by the owner, I was supposed to go to dinner with the practice owner at 6pm to sign the contracts.  At 4:30, I hadn't heard anything from her, so I called her, but she didn't answer her phone.  At 5 pm I finally got ahold of her.  She told me she couldn't meet with me and had changed her mind, even though we had a verbal agreement.  The kicker is she had fired a new graduate right after I started talking to her "to make room in the practice". 

If you have a chance, google Karen Zagorsky and what happened with her and Banfield in California. 

Considering my experiences, its all about the $$$$$ with that company. There is very little regard from the corporate side (individual veterinarians may try to make an individual difference,but they may be part of the guilty party too and their hands are tied by coorporate policy) for the actual pets or the owners. They will roll over a town and gut out the existing practices with little regard for anything as long as there is $$$ involved.  Greed is not a good way to practice medicine, but it seems very effective for some. 

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Re: Considering the Dental vaccine for your dog? READ THIS FIRST!
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2008, 11:17:57 AM »
I am not surprised by anything you have written.  I have heard that the "in house" vets won't treat the sick pets for sale because it is not cost effective.  So "allegedly" there are a lot of animals dying in back rooms in pet stores.  If you saw the recent PETA (grain of salt, but they are sometimes right) Rainbow Pets expose it was horrible.  Rabbits being neutered by non vets that were struggling not fully anesthetized, live animals being stomped on that had escaped, a poor bird an employee tried to treat and it suffered until it died, I couldn't watch all of it.  I have "heard" from former employees that the back room is terrible and that it is usually unlocked and if you can go in there and if someone sees you say you were looking for the bathroom.  I understand every store is not that way, but between these pet suppliers and the care they are given while at the store, a lot of animals suffer and die. They don't even euthanize them, just wait for them to die.

  I won't shop at a place that sells animals anymore, there are a few personally owned small pet stores around here that have always seemed fine when I have gone in, but Petsmart or Petco, no way.  I would rather order on line if I have too. They should do away with selling pets in stores and just sell supplies. 

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Re: Considering the Dental vaccine for your dog? READ THIS FIRST!
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2008, 10:50:33 PM »
I am not surprised by anything you have written.  I have heard that the "in house" vets won't treat the sick pets for sale because it is not cost effective.  So "allegedly" there are a lot of animals dying in back rooms in pet stores.  If you saw the recent PETA (grain of salt, but they are sometimes right) Rainbow Pets expose it was horrible.  Rabbits being neutered by non vets that were struggling not fully anesthetized, live animals being stomped on that had escaped, a poor bird an employee tried to treat and it suffered until it died, I couldn't watch all of it.  I have "heard" from former employees that the back room is terrible and that it is usually unlocked and if you can go in there and if someone sees you say you were looking for the bathroom.  I understand every store is not that way, but between these pet suppliers and the care they are given while at the store, a lot of animals suffer and die. They don't even euthanize them, just wait for them to die.

  I won't shop at a place that sells animals anymore, there are a few personally owned small pet stores around here that have always seemed fine when I have gone in, but Petsmart or Petco, no way.  I would rather order on line if I have too. They should do away with selling pets in stores and just sell supplies. 


Well.... I've worked with petstores for several years.  I first started when I was an undergraduate student selling fancy mice, rats,and guinea pigs for beer money. 

I know for a fact there are pet stores out there where they aggressively try to take care of the animals in the store---the owners attitude is if they sell a healthy pet, they are going to get clients to come back for pet supplies.  And honestly, considering that statistics say the average lifespan of a privately owned petstore in the US is about 18-22 months, it makes sense to me.  The practice I worked at in Ohio made a weekly trip a local petstore every Friday.  It was weird because that was a chain store, but the owners had worked out a deal with the vet practice owner to provide lower cost veterinary care for all of the animals in the pet store and in exchange the pet store sent clients to the vet hospital for veterinary care. 

Unfortunately with some smaller stores, economics are so tight (especially with increasingly stringent exotic animal laws and increase transportation costs) that the owners cant or wont do something that simple

And even worse, the big chains get so caught up in $$ they just don't give a shit.  You pay a contract veterinarian a minimum of $50/hour (and it may be twice that).  It costs about $3.00-$5.00 in supplies to euthanize a pocketpet.   That translates into sales of 3-5 guinea pigs or 10-20 rats or 20-40 mice to make back the cost of one sick animal being humanely euthanized.   They look at the animals in pure production dollars, not quality of life or care of the animal.  A huge factor to also include is the fact that Petsmart and Petco make their money from selling pet supplies.  They don't make that much money from selling the pets they do sell, so they are going to cut their losses any way possible.