Is my friend = all drugs?

[The Squadfather]

All drugs. 

Yes, there are a number of handsome bodybuilders I would like to look like - but not Gunter because we are too different.  How can I try to emulate him when he is 6'2 and blonde and I am 5'9 and brunette?  5'11 Milos and Frank McGrath, 5'10 Dennis Newman, and 5'9 Frank Zane are bodybuilders who I would aspire to.  Not that it makes a realistic  goal but it's a nice idea.

I don't meet the psychological criteria for insecurity or having any personality disorders though.  I know myself well and can tell you I'm happy in the skin I'm in.  It just so happens I admire to the bodybuilders listed above as well as others.

I asked my friend's permission to post these pictures before doing so.  I wanted to make sure it was ok with him and he told me to get back with getbig's opinion on his status.

you dwarf your friend IMO, Matt, the only thing he has on you is chest.

[Debussey]

Matt, you seem very insecure.

seriously, why post pics of your 'friend' on a message board and put him on the spot?

by the sounds of things your friend doesn't take himself as seriously as you do ie he drinks and eats what he wants and tells you he has 16 inch arms and weak legs (he could have given you an inflated measurement like all the other insecure bbers) so why are you taking him so seriously.

i mean, why do you obsess about him so much that you've got all these pics and want to know if he's on steroids so bad that you talk about him and post his pics come to think of it, why do you care at all whether he's on steroids or built better than you?

here's an idea, get on with your own life and training and work with what you've got...

but unfortunately it goes deeper than that doesn't it Matt?

it seems every post you talk more and more about gunter and how good he looks, etc and other 'handsome' male bbers like milos, etc and how you want to look like them, etc.

wtf is wrong with you boy? you're either really fucking weird (obsessed with other guy's looks and wanting to be like them) or your gay or both.

if you're just gay, no problem, there are plenty of you out there and i'm sure you'll find much relief by just admitting it.

the other thing is going to take some psychiatric treatment.

just trying to help bud.

Matt C = a cool guy.

Stay off his nuts bozo.

[Sir William Idol]

All drugs. 

Yes, there are a number of handsome bodybuilders I would like to look like - but not Gunter because we are too different.  How can I try to emulate him when he is 6'2 and blonde and I am 5'9 and brunette?  5'11 Milos and Frank McGrath, 5'10 Dennis Newman, and 5'9 Frank Zane are bodybuilders who I would aspire to.  Not that it makes a realistic  goal but it's a nice idea.

I don't meet the psychological criteria for insecurity or having any personality disorders though.  I know myself well and can tell you I'm happy in the skin I'm in.  It just so happens I admire to the bodybuilders listed above as well as others.

I asked my friend's permission to post these pictures before doing so.  I wanted to make sure it was ok with him and he told me to get back with getbig's opinion on his status.

did you just call yourself "brunette"?

[tleilaxutank]

i know people that juice that are smaller and natty's (self included) that are bigger...


hope this helps

[suckmymuscle]

  I wonder why there are no pros from South America, Asia and places like that, where steroids and other drugs are so easily obtained. This contradicts the theory that bodybuilding is all about drugs. In Mexico, you can walk right into a drugstore and purchase pharmaceutical-grade anabolics very cheapily. Where are the Mexican pros? Bodybuilders elsewhere take tons of drugs, and yet you never see pro-level of muscularity among them.

  I lived in South America for years and I worked out at a gym where practically every guy was taking tremendous quantities of drugs, and let me tell you that the biggest of them would have a hard time getting a call-out at a local NPC show. This contradicts Matt C's theory that it's all about sauce. Did Dorian and Ronnie take more steroids than your average NPC competitor? I don't think so.

  I have observed that practically all truly successful pros, like Shawn Ray, Levrone, Labrada, etc, and especially Mr.Olympias like Dorian, Lee Haney and Ronnie, tend to be dedicated to bodybuilding to the point of obsessiveness: they will train 'till they puke, starve themselves, prepare all year long for a single contest, organize their entire lives around their workouts, etc. The pros who are lazy usually don't go far no matter how good their genetics are or how many drugs they take - look at Cormier, Dillet, Wheeler, etc.

  It most definitely is not all about drugs. Don't believe what a guy who's bitter at his own lack of development, like Matt C, or a steroid dealer, like GH 15, tells you. Mr.Olympias have in common that they are 100% dedicated and train with ferocious intensity; the many injuries suffered by Dorian and the poundages that Ronnie uses are testament that the laurels of victory goes to the bigger man, and not the one with the biggest syringe...

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[BEAST 8692]

SUCKMYMUSCLE - I am just joking around with TA's popularized saying.  I know it is not just all drugs. 

I was 30 pounds heavier than him at one point and I thought he looked bigger and when I talked to him he said it was all about illusion.  I think his proportions work in such a way where he always looks thick and full.

Yeah, yeah, you get the idea.    My hair is shit brown while Gunter is a blonde Aryan stature.  My point was it's hard to strive to look like that. 

that's what i'm talking about, why do you strive to look like anyone?

seriously, i'm not breaking your balls here, but i just don't get this. i understand bbers training to make their own bodies more powerful, stronger, faster, muscular, etc, etc, but to look like someone else that seems a little freaky to me, especially when you're talking about facial features, shape, height, etc.

[gh15]

 I wonder why there are no pros from South America, Asia and places like that, where steroids and other drugs are so easily obtained. This contradicts the theory that bodybuilding is all about drugs. In Mexico, you can walk right into a drugstore and purchase pharmaceutical-grade anabolics very cheapily. Where are the Mexican pros? Bodybuilders elsewhere take tons of drugs, and yet you never see pro-level of muscularity among them.

  I lived in South America for years and I worked out at a gym where practically every guy was taking tremendous quantities of drugs, and let me tell you that the biggest of them would have a hard time getting a call-out at a local NPC show. This contradicts Matt C's theory that it's all about sauce. Did Dorian and Ronnie take more steroids than your average NPC competitor? I don't think so.

  I have observed that practically all truly successful pros, like Shawn Ray, Levrone, Labrada, etc, and especially Mr.Olympias like Dorian, Lee Haney and Ronnie, tend to be dedicated to bodybuilding to the point of obsessiveness: they will train 'till they puke, starve themselves, prepare all year long for a single contest, organize their entire lives around their workouts, etc. The pros who are lazy usually don't go far no matter how good their genetics are or how many drugs they take - look at Cormier, Dillet, Wheeler, etc.

  It most definitely is not all about drugs. Don't believe what a guy who's bitter at his own lack of development, like Matt C, or a steroid dealer, like GH 15, tells you. Mr.Olympias have in common that they are 100% dedicated and train with ferocious intensity; the many injuries suffered by Dorian and the poundages that Ronnie uses are testament that the laurels of victory goes to the bigger man, and not the one with the biggest syringe...

SUCKMYMUSCLE

hey hey hey dont involve me in this crap,,I ALWAYS SAY YOU NEED A LOT MORE THAN DRUGS TO MAKE IT TO THE TOP OF THE INDUSTRY AND THE TOP OF THE INDUSTRY IS PRO CARD HOLDERS AND TOP AMATUERS WHO PLACE 2-5 IN NATIONALS USA ETC

ofcourse you need more than drugs duhhhhh,,you need symetry you need disapline you need time and lots of it,,you need good base that was achieved with out drugs,,you need genetics and then you also need lots of drugs as in consistency of being hormonized so you can build on it

the best bodybuilders are NOT THE ONES WITH THE BIGGEST ARMS! THE BEST BODYBUILDERS ARE THE ONES WHO HAVE EVERYTHING SYMETRIC AND IN PROPORTION,,THE ONES WHO CAN PRESENT A COMPLETE PACKAGE OF DEVELOPED MUSCLES WHILE AT LOW BODYFAT%%%%%%%%%% ,,,THOSE GUYS CAN BE FOUND AT 190 LB 200LB 220LB ETC WAY BEFORE THEY TURN INTO WALKING 280LB BEASTS,,

IT IS VERY VERY EASY TO WALK AROUND AT 250LB OF CRAP WHILE HORMONIZED,,,IT IS VERY VERY HARD TO WALK AROUND WITH 200LB OF QUALITY,, THE MOMENT YOU GET TO THOSE 200LB OF QUALITY IS THE MOMENT YOU BECOME A BODYBUILDER!

30-32 INCH WAIST WITH 6 PACK DIALED IN WITH 17 INCH ARMS ON A 5'10 GUY THAT WEIGHT 200LB WITH SYMETRIC PHYSIQE WILL LOOK 1000 TIMES BETTER AND MORE IMPRESSIVE THAN HIS 5'10 GYM BUD THAT WALKS AROUND WITH 36-38 INCH WAIST WITH 19-20 INCH ARMS AND NO PECS TO TALK ABOUT OR NO LATS OR NO WHEELS,,,

one thing you do need to remember though my friends,,,WE ALL TAKE DRUGS CONSISTENTLY AND NEVER EVER NEVER OFF COMPLETELY OF EVERYTHING,,LIAR IS THE ONE WHO TELLS YOU ANY DIFF,,

A VERY GOOD FITNESS MODEL FRIEND OF MINE,,,VERY VERY FEMILIAR AND PRETTY SMALL INREGARDS TO BODYBUILDING SIZE AS OF 2007,, IS GOING NOW FRATILITY THERAPY BECAUSE HE AND HIS SOON TO BE WIFE WANT A BABY....THAT SHOULD TELL YOU SOMETHING

WE ALL TAKE DRUGS C O N S I S T E N T L Y  FROM THE FITNESS MODEL TO THE BODYBUILDER.

[Big N]

Matt what the hell happend to your body in that pic dude? And please dont blame it on the jacket bro!!!

[dr.chimps]

Check out gordiano's comment about Milos here:

http://forum.bodybuildingpro.com/showthread.php?t=3544

That's what I'm talking about.  I never liked the idea of having game, and I find that the more muscular I become, the less game I need.  I know that dating experts would love to have us all believe that some 300 pound guy who stinks could get babes as long as he has game, but it doesn't work like that.  How you look has so much to do with it.  Being muscular helps tremendously.  As gay as it is for me to admire all of these bodybuilders, I do so because I know that looking like that = lots and lots of babes!!

 

LOL. What a sad statement. As shallow as world he inhabits. 

[Matt C]

LOL. What a sad statement. As shallow as world he inhabits. 

I disagree.  That would imply that I am out to get model caliber girls who are fake from head to toe.  I always have considered a huge variety of girls to be attractive and can see the beauty in almost girl - as long as she isn't incredibly rude or a flake.  I don't have a particular type or anything.  Not to mention there are tons of hot girls I wouldn't give the time of day if they flaked out on me, and there are a lot of girls who may not meet some mainstream physical ideal who I am very big fans of because they are sweet gals.

That having been said, you are right - it is a shallow world we inhabit.  My personality hasn't changed in any significant way since I was 18, but now that I am considerably more muscular I have no problems getting girls.  When I started working out at 18, I realized how shallow the world was.  I knew that the most efficient way for any girl to see me for who I am was to initially take notice.

If I failed the initial physical screening, what chance would I have?    So shortly before turning 19, I took part in a healthy lifestyle that has enriched me in every possible way - no regrets.  Women are carnal beasts just like men.  They fall in love with their eyes just like men.

Look at this comment that was posted on my facebook wall:

"Hey you are looking good a far cry from the highschool days, always thought you would be the next Bill Gates. LOL!!! Yeah Hamm sucked but I have come to the conclusion that College is worse since I have been here 6 years and have 2 diplomas and no job. So Iherd through a littlie birdie you were a bouncer....where are you and what else have you been upto other getting ripped?"

See?  Incidentally it wasn't all in my imagination. 

Doesn't get "cooler" than that. Please tell me that pic was early 90's

1991. 

[cswol]

the guy has no-size whatsoever, he's a skinny no-size sman.

[BEAST 8692]

I disagree.  That would imply that I am out to get model caliber girls who are fake from head to toe.  I always have considered a huge variety of girls to be attractive and can see the beauty in almost girl - as long as she isn't incredibly rude or a flake.  I don't have a particular type or anything.  Not to mention there are tons of hot girls I wouldn't give the time of day if they flaked out on me, and there are a lot of girls who may not meet some mainstream physical ideal who I am very big fans of because they are sweet gals.

That having been said, you are right - it is a shallow world we inhabit.  My personality hasn't changed in any significant way since I was 18, but now that I am considerably more muscular I have no problems getting girls.  When I started working out at 18, I realized how shallow the world was.  I knew that the most efficient way for any girl to see me for who I am was to initially take notice.

If I failed the initial physical screening, what chance would I have?    So shortly before turning 19, I took part in a healthy lifestyle that has enriched me in every possible way - no regrets.  Women are carnal beasts just like men.  They fall in love with their eyes just like men.

Look at this comment that was posted on my facebook wall:

"Hey you are looking good a far cry from the highschool days, always thought you would be the next Bill Gates. LOL!!! Yeah Hamm sucked but I have come to the conclusion that College is worse since I have been here 6 years and have 2 diplomas and no job. So Iherd through a littlie birdie you were a bouncer....where are you and what else have you been upto other getting ripped?"

See?  Incidentally it wasn't all in my imagination. 

1991. 

nah, i don't share your view of the world.

i understand where you're coming from and i appreciate your honesty and candour, but if i was to believe that everything came down to how i looked, then i wouldn't want any of it. superficial bs, you can keep it.

i train hard to be strong, fast, powerful and fit for me and what i want to accomplish (career), no one else. i am very satisfied with how look. i don't look at others and wish i was them or looked like them or had what they had.

envy sucks big time. you are basically saying that it all comes down to looks and those with more, win.

what if you have a car accident or get sick or something and lose your looks

i guess you'd be pretty well fucked if that happened.

get yourself a 'babe' that likes you for who you are, not what you have otherwise you're going to end up very depressed. the way you're operating now is, say you get said babe from how your looks, someone comes along with better looks/more money/whatever than you, babe is gone with him. that's what happens in a superficial world.

[arce377]

ALL DRUGS

[dr.chimps]

I disagree.  That would imply that I am out to get model caliber girls who are fake from head to toe.  I always have considered a huge variety of girls to be attractive and can see the beauty in almost girl - as long as she isn't incredibly rude or a flake.  I don't have a particular type or anything.  Not to mention there are tons of hot girls I wouldn't give the time of day if they flaked out on me, and there are a lot of girls who may not meet some mainstream physical ideal who I am very big fans of because they are sweet gals.

That having been said, you are right - it is a shallow world we inhabit.  My personality hasn't changed in any significant way since I was 18, but now that I am considerably more muscular I have no problems getting girls.  When I started working out at 18, I realized how shallow the world was.  I knew that the most efficient way for any girl to see me for who I am was to initially take notice.

If I failed the initial physical screening, what chance would I have?    So shortly before turning 19, I took part in a healthy lifestyle that has enriched me in every possible way - no regrets.  Women are carnal beasts just like men.  They fall in love with their eyes just like men.

Look at this comment that was posted on my facebook wall:

"Hey you are looking good a far cry from the highschool days, always thought you would be the next Bill Gates. LOL!!! Yeah Hamm sucked but I have come to the conclusion that College is worse since I have been here 6 years and have 2 diplomas and no job. So Iherd through a littlie birdie you were a bouncer....where are you and what else have you been upto other getting ripped?"

See?  Incidentally it wasn't all in my imagination. 

1991. 

Wow. What a screed. I should call 'meltdown.'    However, I guess the point I was trying to make, in essence, was that if you are training for what others think of you, you're probably selling yourself short, both workout-wise and spiritually, as your results will always be determined by someone other than Matt C. That sounds a bit hoity-toity; I don't mean it to be. 

[Mr. Cortisol]

1991. 

wouldn't that make you like 9 or 10 years old in that pic?

[Croatch]

why do i get the feeling that you're going to leap to the defense of this guy because it calls into question your own natural status, mr "i swear i only did a tiny cycle a while ago but i'm totally clean now"?  Smiley

No, it wasn't a tiny cycle, it was a pretty big one actually for 2 months.  The funny thing about guys you like you is, you wish I were on drugs to validate your own gains maybe?  Unfortunately, the closet thing I take to steroids is glutamine.  Keep in mind, not everyone has the same genetics, work ethic, and consistent effort over a period of years.  Don't be hard on yourself, not many can get semi jacked without the use of gear.  Good luck.
One thing I love about this site, 2nd rate juicers telling me what I do and don't do...brilliant!  I see jokers every day I lift and believe me, few can achieve anything without drug use.  It's pretty pathetic.  I know where my gains come from and in the end, it's all that really matters.  Trust me, I'd be irritated if I juiced and someone dusted my gains without using drugs to attain them.  It can't be a great feeling knowing your physique is based on drug use.  I've never seen the great accomplishment in it.
Remember...getting jacked on roids, is like getting fat from eating pizza...neither are hard to do.
Hope this helps.

[Matt C]

nah, i don't share your view of the world.

i understand where you're coming from and i appreciate your honesty and candour, but if i was to believe that everything came down to how i looked, then i wouldn't want any of it. superficial bs, you can keep it.

i train hard to be strong, fast, powerful and fit for me and what i want to accomplish (career), no one else. i am very satisfied with how look. i don't look at others and wish i was them or looked like them or had what they had.

envy sucks big time. you are basically saying that it all comes down to looks and those with more, win.

what if you have a car accident or get sick or something and lose your looks

i guess you'd be pretty well fucked if that happened.

get yourself a 'babe' that likes you for who you are, not what you have otherwise you're going to end up very depressed. the way you're operating now is, say you get said babe from how your looks, someone comes along with better looks/more money/whatever than you, babe is gone with him. that's what happens in a superficial world.

Take Dennis Newman for instance.  As soon as he lost all his muscle due to leukemia, his girlfriend dumped him. 

I can say that both as a student of psychology and an observer of social behaviour, that better looking and better built men will fare better in all aspects of life than their less good looking and less fit peers.    Better looking waitresses will get better tips than their less good looking co-workers.  I can cite tons of peer reviewed scientific papers in psychology journals which prove all of this.  That is just the world we live in.

I know that with absolutely 0 change to my personality EVERYTHING in my life has come together now that I am less geeky looking and more muscular.  Like everyone in life, I respond to the direct incentives in front of me.  I only wish more people could have seen me for who I was back in the day.  I knew they didn't and I knew the best way for me to get what I wanted out of life was to change my appearance physically and it worked.  I am still the exact same person that I used to be.  I just have a different shell and because of that, everyone in my life seems to think the sun shines on me.  Follow me around for a day and you would see that.  Whereas before, I seemed to get no respect.  Do you think I'm happy that this is the case?  I wish it wasn't, but that's just humanity.

Just yesterday, I saw a guy whose entire left side was deformed.  His one arm was about half the length as the other arm and his entire left side of the face was deformed as well.  Honestly, that just choked me up because it brought back a flood of bad memories to me.  Even if he's pleased with the skin he's in and an overall happy person, can you imagine the mistreatment and discrimination he gets by the rest of the world?  I know some nice guys who are in excess of 300 pounds whose personalities are identical to mine and who never get any attention from girls.  The only difference between them and I is a shell!

Things have changed drastically for me in the six years between the photos below.  While the result is what I wanted, it confirmed thoughts for me about the world that I kind of wish were never confirmed.

[bmacsys]

Check out gordiano's comment about Milos here:

http://forum.bodybuildingpro.com/showthread.php?t=3544

That's what I'm talking about.  I never liked the idea of having game, and I find that the more muscular I become, the less game I need. 
 

Matt, you really have to start acting like the mid 20's guy you are and stop acting like a 17 year old. If a girl picks up on how you think muscles and how tall you may be are the keys to life they will probably dump you ASAP.

[Matt C]

Matt, you really have to start acting like the mid 20's guy you are and stop acting like a 17 year old. If a girl picks up on how you think muscles and how tall you may be are the keys to life they will probably dump you ASAP.

I would counter that by saying you need to stop acting as if everyone judges others based on attributes other than the salient physical characteristics.

A good example of this would be Gwyneth Paltrow.  To practice for her performance in "Shallow Hal" she wore a fat suit publically and was treated completely differently by everyone.  People went from holding doors open for her and kissing her feet to completely ignoring her.  It's just the world we live in.

That being said, it just so happens that I also want to look a certain way for my own goals.  My muscularity goals are probably at the point where a lot of girls would say it is too much, so to say I am doing it for the acceptance or admiration of others is not really accurate.    It's just a nice bonus. 

[BEAST 8692]

Take Dennis Newman for instance.  As soon as he lost all his muscle due to leukemia, his girlfriend dumped him. 

I can say that both as a student of psychology and an observer of social behaviour, that better looking and better built men will fare better in all aspects of life than their less good looking and less fit peers.    Better looking waitresses will get better tips than their less good looking co-workers.  I can cite tons of peer reviewed scientific papers in psychology journals which prove all of this.  That is just the world we live in.

I know that with absolutely 0 change to my personality EVERYTHING in my life has come together now that I am less geeky looking and more muscular.  Like everyone in life, I respond to the direct incentives in front of me.  I only wish more people could have seen me for who I was back in the day.  I knew they didn't and I knew the best way for me to get what I wanted out of life was to change my appearance physically and it worked.  I am still the exact same person that I used to be.  I just have a different shell and because of that, everyone in my life seems to think the sun shines on me.  Follow me around for a day and you would see that.  Whereas before, I seemed to get no respect.  Do you think I'm happy that this is the case?  I wish it wasn't, but that's just humanity.

Just yesterday, I saw a guy whose entire left side was deformed.  His one arm was about half the length as the other arm and his entire left side of the face was deformed as well.  Honestly, that just choked me up because it brought back a flood of bad memories to me.  Even if he's pleased with the skin he's in and an overall happy person, can you imagine the mistreatment and discrimination he gets by the rest of the world?  I know some nice guys who are in excess of 300 pounds whose personalities are identical to mine and who never get any attention from girls.  The only difference between them and I is a shell!

Things have changed drastically for me in the six years between the photos below.  While the result is what I wanted, it confirmed thoughts for me about the world that I kind of wish were never confirmed.

dennis newman is actually a very good example to prove my point.

before getting leukemia the guy was about as shallow and superficial as you can get. of course the girl left him, she was too.

carry on with your beliefs. i hope everything works out for you, but i believe that if you send out that energy you'll get it back. me, i want my girl to stick around if i get sick.

[Debussey]

dennis newman is actually a very good example to prove my point.

before getting leukemia the guy was about as shallow and superficial as you can get. of course the girl left him, she was too.

carry on with your beliefs. i hope everything works out for you, but i believe that if you send out that energy you'll get it back. me, i want my girl to stick around if i get sick.

Good.Fucking.Point.

[Matt C]

dennis newman is actually a very good example to prove my point.

before getting leukemia the guy was about as shallow and superficial as you can get. of course the girl left him, she was too.

carry on with your beliefs. i hope everything works out for you, but i believe that if you send out that energy you'll get it back. me, i want my girl to stick around if i get sick.

Same here.

I should also point out that from what little I know about Dennis Newman, I can say I admire him for how he looked, but I'm not so sure about his personality.  I got the same sense from him that you described above.  However, the same cannot be said about Bob Paris or Milos.  To me they are both the complete package - this includes personality, intelligence, as well as the physical.

Also, I'm not sure exactly what points of mine you are refuting?  Are you saying that my description of how the world operates is inaccurate?  Are you saying that I am a shallow person?  Exactly what are you asking or suggesting here?

Check out Tom Platz's commentary about Bob as well as the user comments on this youtube link:

Articulate, well spoken, humble, and does all of that while looking like perfection.  How amazing is that?

I cannot ever be another person, but I don't see anything shallow or unhealthy about having role models to look up to for what I want to become.

[Mr. Cortisol]

Losers write long thesises about how they are going to use their tools, skills, body to get laid.

Winner just get off the computer and they go get laid.

[Debussey]

Same here.

I should also point out that from what little I know about Dennis Newman, I can say I admire him for how he looked, but I'm not so sure about his personality.  I got the same sense from him that you described above.  However, the same cannot be said about Bob Paris or Milos.  To me they are both the complete package - this includes personality, intelligence, as well as the physical.

Also, I'm not sure exactly what points of mine you are refuting?  Are you saying that my description of how the world operates is inaccurate?  Are you saying that I am a shallow person?  Exactly what are you asking or suggesting here?

Check out Tom Platz's commentary about Bob as well as the user comments on this youtube link:

Articulate, well spoken, humble, and does all of that while looking like perfection.  How amazing is that?

I cannot ever be another person, but I don't see anything shallow or unhealthy about having role models to look up to for what I want to become.

Debussey thinks that these posters do not understand you.

You, MaxC, claim this: Looks matters, and looks is one of the factors that can help you get what you want in life.

You have not claimed that looks = the only thing, thus, you are not shallow. You simply understand how the world works and make plans to benefit from your insight.

Having goals for your appearance = a good thing, as long as it is a part of a balanced life.


So: When will you get that nosejob MattC??

[BEAST 8692]

Same here.

I should also point out that from what little I know about Dennis Newman, I can say I admire him for how he looked, but I'm not so sure about his personality.  I got the same sense from him that you described above.  However, the same cannot be said about Bob Paris or Milos.  To me they are both the complete package - this includes personality, intelligence, as well as the physical.

Also, I'm not sure exactly what points of mine you are refuting?  Are you saying that my description of how the world operates is inaccurate?  Are you saying that I am a shallow person?  Exactly what are you asking or suggesting here?

Check out Tom Platz's commentary about Bob as well as the user comments on this youtube link:

Articulate, well spoken, humble, and does all of that while looking like perfection.  How amazing is that?

I cannot ever be another person, but I don't see anything shallow or unhealthy about having role models to look up to for what I want to become.

earlier in the thread you had a different tune. you were saying you wanted to look like so and so, etc. you were saying that everything was about looks. now you're saying it's about personality and looks. you're agreeing with me more and more each post. this is good progress.

nothing wrong with role models, but at the end of the day you have to be you and not be a poor imitation of other people. that would make you less than them.

i say build your body for YOU and only you. if the chicks come, etc, cool, but you must see yourself as unique and worthwhile whether you have muscles or not. be your OWN MAN and you might even find a real relationship instead of just sex and go.

i will now draw an official conclusion to this counselling session. where do i send the bill?