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Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Powerlifting / Strongman => Topic started by: eliscominblue on April 14, 2007, 06:55:52 AM
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Below is a picture of the great Don Reinhoudt before attempting a 900lb squat. When is the last time you saw anyone in a recent meet attempt anything without wraps and suits? I don't want to hear the "safety" argument and I don't care if you use suits etc......just remember that it can be done without all the gear....I know a lot of great "geared" (not talking about steriods) lifters that can put up great numbers raw. This topic is about the younger lifters that rely on the suits over their own bodies to put up numbers.....build the muscle, ligament and tendon strength by diligent progressive strength training over time. Take away the suit and I bet half of the "geared" PL's couldn't even walk 600 out of the rack let alone lift it.
(http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u222/eliscominblue/reinhoudt-1.jpg)
Now everyone suits up and has the bar dropped on them by the monolift...and they call it a squat?
(http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u222/eliscominblue/World_Record_squat_powerlifting_lif.jpg)
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You're absolutely right.
I don't care about the weight on the bar, if the lifter is in a double canvas suit, with lifting briefs, and extra long wraps and in some monolift which allows for extra wide stance, and then proceeds to stop well 4 or 5 inches above parallell, then it's just bullshit, a mockery of the legacy of the great lifters of the past.
-Hedge
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you know i have been in powerlifting since i was 13 i turn 22 in exactly 1 week and i have compiled a list of shit that pisses me off about this sport
1)complete reliance on equipment(shirts,shoes,wraps,ect)
2)these pussy's who use those wide ass sumo stances,so they only have to move the bar 3 fucking inches
3)thinking you have to be a big slob to compete
4)people who think your bench is a measure of strength(when everyone knows your deadlift is more important)
5)fat ass people who work out but not hard,and when people ask them why arent they loosing weight they say "oh well i am a powerlifter" that shit just gives the game a bad name
bench
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you know i have been in powerlifting since i was 13 i turn 22 in exactly 1 week and i have compiled a list of shit that pisses me off about this sport
1)complete reliance on equipment(shirts,shoes,wraps,ect)
2)these pussy's who use those wide ass sumo stances,so they only have to move the bar 3 fucking inches
3)thinking you have to be a big slob to compete
4)people who think your bench is a measure of strength(when everyone knows your deadlift is more important)
5)fat ass people who work out but not hard,and when people ask them why arent they loosing weight they say "oh well i am a powerlifter" that shit just gives the game a bad name
bench
Garry Frank and Andy Bolton aren't exactly lean and ripped to shreds, are you suggesting that they don't train hard?
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people on getbig make me laugh, if you have anywhere over 3 percent bodyfat or anything less than a visible 8 pack then you "have no muscle and don't train at all". ::)
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Garry Frank and Andy Bolton aren't exactly lean and ripped to shreds, are you suggesting that they don't train hard?
i am not saying guys who have great records in the sport,i am talking about the 300# fatasses who dont even have a 1800# total who think all they need to do is "bulk"
sorry for the confusion
bench
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i am not saying guys who have great records in the sport,i am talking about the 300# fatasses who dont even have a 1800# total who think all they need to do is "bulk"
sorry for the confusion
bench
shit i don't know where you train but an 1800 pound total is pretty damn impressive even if you do weigh 300 pounds, something like that doesn't come with just sitting on the couch eating chips.
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people on getbig make me laugh, if you have anywhere over 3 percent bodyfat or anything less than a visible 8 pack then you "have no muscle and don't train at all". ::)
i am not trying to say that,but i agree with you that shit has gotten crazy around here
bench
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shit i don't know where you train but an 1800 pound total is pretty damn impressive even if you do weigh 300 pounds, something like that doesn't come with just sitting on the couch eating chips.
your 100% correct but i just got done taking a shit while reading a powerlifting magazine so 1800 didnt seem like a lot when i typed it ;D
but there is a guy at my gym who refuses to compete unless he is 300# and i am trying to say that kind of mentallity is not needed
bench
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people on getbig make me laugh, if you have anywhere over 3 percent bodyfat or anything less than a visible 8 pack then you "have no muscle and don't train at all". ::)
Man you used to spit the same shit around here til lately. POT TO KETTLE! THIS IS POT! DO YOU READ?! You have a strong build and I know you know your shit which I find funny about some of the things that leave your lips. Either way you've been a completely different and more enjoyable participant of late on the forums. Until you get that diet slammed together and get shredded though, no one will take you too seriously.
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Man you used to spit the same shit around here til lately. POT TO KETTLE! THIS IS POT! DO YOU READ?! You have a strong build and I know you know your shit which I find funny about some of the things that leave your lips. Either way you've been a completely different and more enjoyable participant of late on the forums. Until you get that diet slammed together and get shredded though, no one will take you too seriously.
no shit it seems like ever since davidpaul owned his ass he has been a different person.
bench
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You're absolutely right.
I don't care about the weight on the bar, if the lifter is in a double canvas suit, with lifting briefs, and extra long wraps and in some monolift which allows for extra wide stance, and then proceeds to stop well 4 or 5 inches above parallell, then it's just bullshit, a mockery of the legacy of the great lifters of the past.
-Hedge
I have a theory: If everyone was forced to throw away their bench shirts, lifting briefs, and squat suits etc. we would see their true totals. (hey superman what can you do without your cape?) We would also get rid of the bullshit in PL and the puffed up idiots who think they could out lift the great lifters of the past. Less people in the sport may be a good thing. I hate hearing "joe nobody" talk about how he has totaled more than Kaz or Reinhoudt... I vote for belts and wraps and thats it. The only lift that hasn't been completely screwed is the DL. If your bench is more than your deadlift it's not you, it's the shirt.....big deal.
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I have a theory: If everyone was forced to throw away their bench shirts, lifting briefs, and squat suits etc. we would see their true totals. (hey superman what can you do without your cape?) We would also get rid of the bullshit in PL and the puffed up idiots who think they could out lift the great lifters of the past. Less people in the sport may be a good thing. I hate hearing "joe nobody" talk about how he has totaled more than Kaz or Reinhoudt... I vote for belts and wraps and thats it. The only lift that hasn't been completely screwed is the DL. If your bench is more than your deadlift it's not you, it's the shirt.....big deal.
Preach on brother!
My eyes were opened when I saw a clip of Chuck Vogelpohl's 1000 lbs "squat". The guy stopped 3 or 4 inches ABOVE parallell.
Not to mention he was lifting off the monolift, standing with his legs three feet wide and wearing double canvas suit, lifting briefs, extra long wraps and probably some extra supportive gear that I don't even know of.
I would like to see Vogelpohl do a RAW meet once, just once.
Instead of trying to fool us all that he's stronger than Reinhoudt and Kazmeier.
-Hedge
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I don't know if anyone has posted this before but it is direct from KAZ on the state of PL.
Kaz writes:
This is my first post on a powerlifting forum so bear with me. After a 25 year absence I'm returning to the sport of powerlifting one last time to try and make a difference. New England Record Breakers is the real deal. The way things used to be when powerlifting was on the rise and was being considered as an addition to the olympics.
Sadly,two individuals,one in particular,changed all that and have brought powerlifting to the the confused,unacceptable new low we now have. Instead of the Wide World of Sports, Sports Spectacular,prime time commercials and Arnold movies your sport is now a backyard circus act looked down upon by the general public.You now have a chance to take back your sport and become viable again. Don't be afraid of empty threats from an equipment manufacturer and certain federations. In reality they're more afraid of you than you are of them. Without you,the powerlifter,they can't survive.Keep in mind,people who make threats are actually cowards who live in fear themselves. I'm asking everyone who loves powerlifting to support this event by either competing or attending. Those of you who backed out because of threats of losimg sponsorship,I'm urging you to come back. I will personally help you obtain new sponsors who actually give money. Powerlifting can be great again with federations like Atlantis and 100% Raw.Change is scary and uncomfortable and I understand that.But change is inevitable,especially with the current situation powerlifting is in. If the powerlifting community gets behind this event,I give you my word that I will get behind powerlifting from now on and help bring it back to the forefront where it belongs. Let this be the event that marks the new beginning for all of powerlifting. Let's see who the strongest really is. See you on May 6.
Stay strong,
Body,mind and spirit
KAZ
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Preach on brother!
My eyes were opened when I saw a clip of Chuck Vogelpohl's 1000 lbs "squat". The guy stopped 3 or 4 inches ABOVE parallell.
Not to mention he was lifting off the monolift, standing with his legs three feet wide and wearing double canvas suit, lifting briefs, extra long wraps and probably some extra supportive gear that I don't even know of.
I would like to see Vogelpohl do a RAW meet once, just once.
Instead of trying to fool us all that he's stronger than Reinhoudt and Kazmeier.
-Hedge
exactly Hedge, although in Vogelpohl's case it's more like feet five feet apart, he's the perfect example of a guy who is too light to be trying to "lift" the weight he's trying to lift, he probably couldn't get an 800 pound squat passed in the IPF.
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This is why I'm training to squat from full depth. Becuase when I hit a weight, I don't want people to ever question the legitmacy of the lift. Just like when my leg presses cram my knees into my chest, my hams are not tap'n my calves at the bottom. ALOT more difficult to lift heavier weight but it's a legit lift and makes me feel better about it. Wraps I understand and a belt but beyond that? I didn't know they made BRiEFS to help with lifting. WOW! How can people feel good about the lifts they make when it's being made with the aid of all that gear? ??? RAW or nothing. If I did a shirted bench with 500lbs, I'd have no respect for myself. :-\
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Anyone who doubts Chuck Vogelpohl is strong is an idiot.The guy just did a meet and squatted 1150 THEN pulled 850.Anyone think a deadlift over 800 isnt strong?This guy has been a legend for years and squatted 900 in a poly suit.By the way,Kaz wore a squat suit,sorry to disapoint you.
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Anyone who doubts Chuck Vogelpohl is strong is an idiot.The guy just did a meet and squatted 1150 THEN pulled 850.Anyone think a deadlift over 800 isnt strong?This guy has been a legend for years and squatted 900 in a poly suit.By the way,Kaz wore a squat suit,sorry to disapoint you.
Lets see Vogelpohl do a legit result in the USPF or at Kazmaiers upcoming contest, then we can compare him to Kazmaier, Coan, Reinhoudt or Hooper.
-Hedge
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Anyone who doubts Chuck Vogelpohl is strong is an idiot.The guy just did a meet and squatted 1150 THEN pulled 850.Anyone think a deadlift over 800 isnt strong?This guy has been a legend for years and squatted 900 in a poly suit.By the way,Kaz wore a squat suit,sorry to disapoint you.
Kaz wore a squat suit? Show me.......do you mean a lifting singlet? Whatever he wore wasn't anything like a double layer canvas squat suit that incorporated top grade canvas with 4 inch wide hardcore side panels sewn and garmet welded together that stands upright on it's own.
BTW nobody is saying that Chuck Vogelpohl is not strong, he trains like a mad man and could bury almost anyone in a meet, raw or not..... he won the WPO Finals in the Heavyweight division at the Arnold (06) with a 2,562 pound total. Squatted 1,118, benched 633 and deadlifted 810.......If the Mendelson's and Vogelpohl's want to use the high tech gear so be it......they are great lifters with and without the equipment...... It's the 350lb whales that couldn't bench 500 raw but attempt 661 with their bench shirts....or couldn't walk out with 650 but try to squat 1000!
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Kaz wore a squat suit? Show me.......do you mean a lifting singlet? Whatever he wore wasn't anything like a double layer canvas squat suit that incorporated top grade canvas with 4 inch wide hardcore side panels sewn and garmet welded together that stands upright on it's own.
BTW nobody is saying that Chuck Vogelpohl is not strong, he trains like a mad man and could bury almost anyone in a meet, raw or not..... he won the WPO Finals in the Heavyweight division at the Arnold (06) with a 2,562 pound total. Squatted 1,118, benched 633 and deadlifted 810.......If the Mendelson's and Vogelpohl's want to use the high tech gear so be it......they are great lifters with and without the equipment...... It's the 350lb whales that couldn't bench 500 raw but attempt 661 with their bench shirts....or couldn't walk out with 650 but try to squat 1000!
If Vogelpohl were interested in being compared with Coan and other all-time greats, he would compete in the USPF.
It's non-tested.
But they don't allow for all that multi-gear and whatnot.
What some people don't realise, is that even the deadlift in these clown feds is fcuked up. They lift with a softer, longer and slightly thinner barbell.
Everything just to make the lift as easy as possible.
Thankfully, the deadlift can only be screwed with to a certain degree. In the end, you will have to lift the weight.
But the thinner barbell makes it easier to grip and pull, because of the softer and longer bar, the lift will already have started once the weights clears the floor.
Here's how the barbell bends when Bolton lifts it:
And here is when Lars Norén lifts, only a few pounds less:
-Hedge
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world of difference.
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world of difference.
I've seen numerous training vids from Westside. Not one of them shows a lifter going below parallell.
Here's Phil Harrington with a shitload of weight on his shoulders, doing a half-squat:
Sure, using high box squats is a great way to train with very heavy weights. But you also need to go deep.
I am positive that Harrington could not copy this double with 640 lbs by a 180 lbs'er (RAW, no belt):
(At the end of the film)
-Hedge
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Anyone who doubts Chuck Vogelpohl is strong is an idiot.The guy just did a meet and squatted 1150 THEN pulled 850.Anyone think a deadlift over 800 isnt strong?This guy has been a legend for years and squatted 900 in a poly suit.By the way,Kaz wore a squat suit,sorry to disapoint you.
Yes, he is very strong. But how much stronger does he appear to be due to having gear-inflated numbers?
John Kuc, at 242, lifted 830/500/870 raw. Is Vogelpohl stronger than that? I don't know, and neither does anyone else. THAT is the problem.
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Yes, he is very strong. But how much stronger does he appear to be due to having gear-inflated numbers?
John Kuc, at 242, lifted 830/500/870 raw. Is Vogelpohl stronger than that? I don't know, and neither does anyone else. THAT is the problem.
Everyone knows that Vogelpohl couldn't carry Kuc's gymbag.
With the same equipment as Kuc, and to same depth... Vogelpohl could get perhaps... My guess is, somewhere in the 700's.
At best.
-Hedge
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Everyone knows that Vogelpohl couldn't carry Kuc's gymbag.
There goes my attempt at diplomacy. :)
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Yes, he is very strong. But how much stronger does he appear to be due to having gear-inflated numbers?
John Kuc, at 242, lifted 830/500/870 raw. Is Vogelpohl stronger than that? I don't know, and neither does anyone else. THAT is the problem.
well put....that was/is my original argument.
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This is the dumbest argument Ive ever seen.Chuck only just recently switched to a canvas suit.For years and years he used a poly suit.The guy has been a national and world champ on numerous occasions.I love the way guys discount the lifters of today.Donny Thompson went into that NERB raw meet and did fine with just a belt,got called for depth at 880 and still totaled over 2300.Who said Chuck was stronger then Kuc?You guys compare the greatest guy in the history of the sport and then say "he couldnt stack up to him".Well,show me the NFL running back that matches up with JIMMY BROWN.Certain guys are legends for a reason.To say something as retarded as "Chuck could only squat 700 in the USPF" is assanine.The guy can do 700 pound good mornings.I will say this,let Kaz pull 1003 like Bolton.Please dont talk about the deadlift bar because you dont know what your talking about.That bar kills my deadlift.Its too springy,so when I pull it jerks me out of position.It helps my grip,but kills my exploseiveness.I have pulled 720 off a two inch block with no belt with a Texas power bar and only pulled 788 in a belt with the Oakie bar.That bar is overrated.Bolton is as strong as any human being has ever been.By the way,I will be switching over to the USPF in Nov.My bet is that I pull and bench better.Squatting will be tougher as I ripped off my patella and shattered my knee cap 1.5 years ago,but I will adapt and still hit good numbers.
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(http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u222/eliscominblue/Kazsqat2.jpg)
This is Kaz squating. You don't see this at Westside.
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There goes my attempt at diplomacy. :)
Well, nobody could accuse you of not being diplomatic.
I think you definitely gives Vogelpohl the benefit of the doubt.
I'm not.
But I will definitely give him credit the day he posts a good result in legit organisation.
-Hedge
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This is the dumbest argument Ive ever seen.Chuck only just recently switched to a canvas suit.For years and years he used a poly suit.The guy has been a national and world champ on numerous occasions.I love the way guys discount the lifters of today.Donny Thompson went into that NERB raw meet and did fine with just a belt,got called for depth at 880 and still totaled over 2300.Who said Chuck was stronger then Kuc?You guys compare the greatest guy in the history of the sport and then say "he couldnt stack up to him".Well,show me the NFL running back that matches up with JIMMY BROWN.Certain guys are legends for a reason.To say something as retarded as "Chuck could only squat 700 in the USPF" is assanine.The guy can do 700 pound good mornings.I will say this,let Kaz pull 1003 like Bolton.Please dont talk about the deadlift bar because you dont know what your talking about.That bar kills my deadlift.Its too springy,so when I pull it jerks me out of position.It helps my grip,but kills my exploseiveness.I have pulled 720 off a two inch block with no belt with a Texas power bar and only pulled 788 in a belt with the Oakie bar.That bar is overrated.Bolton is as strong as any human being has ever been.By the way,I will be switching over to the USPF in Nov.My bet is that I pull and bench better.Squatting will be tougher as I ripped off my patella and shattered my knee cap 1.5 years ago,but I will adapt and still hit good numbers.
It's awesome to see you switching to USPF Mimnaugh.
I hope that many more will follow your lead.
-Hedge
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This is the dumbest argument Ive ever seen.Chuck only just recently switched to a canvas suit.For years and years he used a poly suit.The guy has been a national and world champ on numerous occasions.I love the way guys discount the lifters of today.Donny Thompson went into that NERB raw meet and did fine with just a belt,got called for depth at 880 and still totaled over 2300.Who said Chuck was stronger then Kuc?You guys compare the greatest guy in the history of the sport and then say "he couldnt stack up to him".Well,show me the NFL running back that matches up with JIMMY BROWN.Certain guys are legends for a reason.To say something as retarded as "Chuck could only squat 700 in the USPF" is assanine.The guy can do 700 pound good mornings.I will say this,let Kaz pull 1003 like Bolton.Please dont talk about the deadlift bar because you dont know what your talking about.That bar kills my deadlift.Its too springy,so when I pull it jerks me out of position.It helps my grip,but kills my exploseiveness.I have pulled 720 off a two inch block with no belt with a Texas power bar and only pulled 788 in a belt with the Oakie bar.That bar is overrated.Bolton is as strong as any human being has ever been.By the way,I will be switching over to the USPF in Nov.My bet is that I pull and bench better.Squatting will be tougher as I ripped off my patella and shattered my knee cap 1.5 years ago,but I will adapt and still hit good numbers.
gimme a break with the "700 pound good mornings", i've seen the way they do this, they spread their feet six feet apart, bend their knees and lower themselves 5 inches, it's not physically possible for a human being to do A PROPER good morning with that type of weight.
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(http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u222/eliscominblue/Kazsqat2.jpg)
This is Kaz squating. You don't see this at Westside.
Amen to that.
To paraphrase Ronnie Coleman: Everybody wants to get big ass numbers.
But nobody wants to squat that weight deep.
-Hedge
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Who said Chuck was stronger then Kuc?
I didn't. I wanted to compare them, but that is impossible these days. THAT is what sucks.
Certain guys are legends for a reason.
Exactly. And people are calling Vogelpohl a legend too. What I want to know is: is he TRULY a legend? I can't tell. He is a legend in the APF/WPO, that much is clear. Anything else is guess work.
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gimme a break with the "700 pound good mornings", i've seen the way they do this, they spread their feet six feet apart, bend their knees and lower themselves 5 inches, it's not physically possible for a human being to do A PROPER good morning with that type of weight.
A buddy of mine, the brute, does good mornings with 600-685lbs all day and it's a legit good morning too. He didn't start squatting for years adn only did good morning and his opening squat was 600 with EASE. Credited his squatting to all those ridiculous good mornings. :-X
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Again,you dont have ANY idea what your talking about when it comes to good mornings.If you watch the Westside tape of the squat workout,Vogelpohl demonstrates seated good mornings and his head goes way past his knees.I have done 700X2 on the good morning with no belt and a buffalo bar.Matt Smith does a chain suspened good morning off a 35 inch suspension with 835.You dont know what your talking about.You probably are talking abot arched back good mornings,but every good morning Ive seen the Westside guys do is with a shoulder width and low[some of the lager waisted guys cant go as low as others].
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Again,you dont have ANY idea what your talking about when it comes to good mornings.If you watch the Westside tape of the squat workout,Vogelpohl demonstrates seated good mornings and his head goes way past his knees.I have done 700X2 on the good morning with no belt and a buffalo bar.Matt Smith does a chain suspened good morning off a 35 inch suspension with 835.You dont know what your talking about.You probably are talking abot arched back good mornings,but every good morning Ive seen the Westside guys do is with a shoulder width and low[some of the lager waisted guys cant go as low as others].
http://karlstadsak.se/Westside/wbc_visit/wbc_best_quality.wmv
Check out the fat fcuk @ 5:02.
I'm sure he would be able to squat at least 900 lbs in the WPO.
There is not one squat in this entire clip that is even close to be below parallell.
But like I said, all bullshit aside, it's awesome to see you coming over to USPF to do some real powerlifting Mimnaugh. I'm sure you will do really well too.
-Hedge
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Are you implying that they are weak.Because the guys there are Mike Ruggeria,he has pulled 821,Chuck Voogelpohl has pulled over 800 at 242 and at 275,Bi Tim Harold has pulled over 830,The guy squatting with Big Tim is Joe Bayless who has pulled 777 at 242.I dont know the other guy.So,obviously with deadlifts like that,even a hater would have to admit they are strong as shit.I doubt,any would have trouble translating their strength to a single ply fed.
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http://karlstadsak.se/Westside/wbc_visit/wbc_best_quality.wmv
Check out the fat fcuk @ 5:02.
I'm sure he would be able to squat at least 900 lbs in the WPO.
There is not one squat in this entire clip that is even close to be below parallell.
But like I said, all bullshit aside, it's awesome to see you coming over to USPF to do some real powerlifting Mimnaugh. I'm sure you will do really well too.
-Hedge
I feel so skinny after watching that vid. And I'm 280.
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i still have massive respect for gene, lewis, bolton, chuck v, oleksander, etc. what they do is incredibly difficult and it still requires a shit ton of power.
that said, it's not for me. benching 365 raw was far more satisfying than 455 shirted, squatting 405 for a double ass to my calves in just a belt today felt better than hitting 505 suited up to parallel with wraps. my pull has just been sucking ass lately so we won't talk about that. :P