Oldtimer1

[oldtimer1]

Going to talk about training to failure and volume (reps in reserve) method. When I train with one set to failure I couldn't get one more rep even if Wes had a base ball hat in hand saying one more rep. The usual protocol for one set to failure is a zero to two non taxing warm up sets then one set to failure. Some exercise need no warm ups because the prior exercise was good enough to warm up the body part. If you truly did one set to real failure and failed at say ten reps there is no way in hell you could do a second set of ten reps. You might fail at ten the first set and then fail at 8 reps for the second. That's true failure using one set to failure.

Sometimes I use the high intensity method of two sets to failure.  I call it failure but truth be told it's more like 95% on the first set and 100% on the second. My goal might be say two sets of 10.  The first set I might be able to get 11 if I pushed to max. Two set method is still high intensity in my book. Some even say three.

Guys like Lee Labrada say they trained HIT and used three work sets and exercise. I agree it's HIT but no way is he going to true failure for three sets unless there is a crazy amount of rest in between sets and your taking a boat load of drugs. It's more like 90% first set, 95% on the second and the last set to failure at 100%. 

Now let's talk about guy's using volume that train with reps in reserve. No way can you do four, five or six sets to failure on one exercise. Volume is a hard way to train unlike some HIT guys would argue against.  It's like a quarter miler saying to a 10K runner his training is easy because the miles he puts in aren't to failure until the last mile. Insanity, right?  Yet, bodybuilders on both camps of the volume and HIT use illogical arguments.

Take some examples of volume trainers. Chris Dickerson would do in the 80's six sets of chins then the second exercise would be seated lat cable rows using a V handle. A guy in the gym told me he saw him using 160lbs in the exercise. Not a bone crushing weight and Christ wasn't a big guy compared to other champs. Consider this though. If he did this after six sets of chins then did 6x10 of seated lat cable rows with very minimal rests between sets he did 60 reps of the exercise!  He then had one more exercise for his lats to go.   Steve Davis worked out in the same manner. Moderate weights with short rests between exercises. Heard someone say he did T bar rows for the lats with 115lbs. Do four exercises for lat including 6 sets of 10 reps with 115lbs with a short rest between sets that 115lbs must have felt like 1000lbs. 

My preference is doing one or two sets per exercise. I like hitting that red hot rev limiter and feeling like  I'm going to keel over after a set. When I do volume I feel like I'm wasting my time until the fatigues kicks in on the third or fifth set.

 Since I'm kicking in a running program with the weights I'm feeling weak. I doubt anyone except a superman can run a hard five mile then do heavy squats the day after.  Volume method (reps in reserve till the last set) sounds to me like a perfect solution for a guy trying to be good at running while still lifting. Leaving my job in a month or two then I will really experiment with volume with running.

Today's work out. Back and chest: Feeling weak from all the running I'm doing lately.

Medium supinate grip pulldown with a M.A.G. bar 2 x 10
Seated lat pulley row 2 x 12 (Usually use the typical V handle. Today I used a wide V handle. Definitely hit the back differently)
Dumbbell row 2x 10 (dead hang and all the way up)
Narrow supinate grip pulldown with M.A.G bar 2 x 10

Flat dumbbell bench 2 x 8
Incline dumbbell bench 2x8
Flat flies 2 x 10
Push ups 2 x max (One regular and the second with those perfect push up handles)

dead lifts 2 x 4
Weighted hyper extensions 2 x 15

Ab wheel roll out 1 x 27
Ab pulley crunch 1 x 50

Some side notes. I think I have to get back to declines. Incline presses are really fucking with my rotator cuffs. I just have it in my head inclines are necessary.  Maybe they are not.  When my shoulders really bug me I use declines, dips, controlled cadence flies and push ups. I might get back to that. I think I ruined my shoulders with a life time of benching with a bar. My first bad injury was in my early 20's.  I used the Chuck Sipes method of partials. He did something like lock out reps. Next phase was quarter reps. Then halves going to full bench presses. After doing partials for awhile my shoulders/pecs were so rock tight. The weight for full benches felt like a feather. Bang my shoulder went. Giving me grief on and off forever. The good news is that declines don't hurt what so ever.  Try them if you have issues but want to train the pecs hard. Dorian Yates praises the movement as well as Dough Brignole who said flat out it's the best pec exercise.

[Donny]

Brignole used Dumbbells for decline presses but i disagree with his opinion on incline presses.
Incline Press is not as hard on your shoulders than flat press & feels more natural in its performance.
I agree with Jay but as i wrote before, "one manīs meat is another manīs poison"

[Donny]

The Flat or Decline will work everything so itīs just about preference in what youīre trying to achieve. I work now more on my upper chest.
I do not need a bulbous hanging chest at 57 (nearly 58) year old.
i feel the incline work helps to give me a better shape for my age but again this is just my opinion.

[oldtimer1]

Brignole used Dumbbells for decline presses but i disagree with his opinion on incline presses.
Incline Press is not as hard on your shoulders than flat press & feels more natural in its performance.
I agree with Jay but as i wrote before, "one manīs meat is another manīs poison"

I use dumbbells for the decline too. It's suicidal to do declines with a barbell with out a spotter.  I train in my basement.

 I do agree the barbell bench with a bar is hard on the shoulders. The incline is a safer option but not perfect.  The thing with the bench press with a bar is kind of like smoking. Many get away with it for many decades. Then there are the many that have a heart attack, cancer or breathing problems. On occasion you hear of a person that smoked into their 80's but that is the exception and not the rule. Same with benching with a bar. I did it in my teens, 20's, 30's and 40's. Then in my 50's I had some trouble. Ortho surgeon told me from the MRI I had a partial torn labrum and on the other shoulder a partial torn rotator cuff. In my 60's I gave up the bench press with a bar. On occasion I get the notion to give it another shot. I always come to the conclusion that the barbell bench press is over for me. Why bench when the decline offers zero pain and arguably better pec involvement. Regarding the the incline it bugs my shoulder. Could it be getting the dumbbells in position after the kick up is the shoulder strain? Maybe I will try the bar for inclines again and see how I feel.

Hope you are doing well Donny.

[Donny]

yes iīm still alive & kicking Rich. Iīve also had a few problems health wise but still train. I am looking forward to a seminar in escrima & am enjoying this as my rolling days on the mats are over.
I suppose itīs like bodybuilding exercises, move on adapt to the situation 

[oldtimer1]

yes iīm still alive & kicking Rich. Iīve also had a few problems health wise but still train. I am looking forward to a seminar in escrima & am enjoying this as my rolling days on the mats are over.
I suppose itīs like bodybuilding exercises, move on adapt to the situation 

Get well. I have no desire to go back to rolling anymore. My 300lbs 6'4" son in law is very involved and always asks me to go with him.  I have no desire to wrestle any guys anymore. He is full of injuries from it. The thought of a smelly young guy cranking my neck or torqueing my arm in an arm bar is disturbing to me. I have other ways of defending myself, lol. Yes, there are so many exercises. Discard what hurts and find a substitute is a great strategy.

[Donny]

Get well. I have no desire to go back to rolling anymore. My 300lbs 6'4" son in law is very involved and always asks me to go with him.  I have no desire to wrestle any guys anymore. He is full of injuries from it. The thought of a smelly young guy cranking my neck or torqueing my arm in an arm bar is disturbing to me. I have other ways of defending myself, lol. Yes, there are so many exercises. Discard what hurts and find a substitute is a great strategy.

I am actually lucky to be alive now as i had a very bad heart attack last year.  I recieved two heart stents.
I was feeling bad for a couple of days (bad heart burn ) then i said to my wife one morning i have a weird feeling iīm not ok.
I went under the shower & felt like i was punched in the chest.
I made it to my bedroom & the medics came & saved me.
Unfortunately it runs in my family
Started walking straight afterwards then cycling . Weight training again & martial arts training.
I honestly thought it was my time but fuck it. I can only say my first thoughts in my head were fuck i have a serious problem.. then i felt calm hard to explain.
The body & brain works in many ways we donīt understand.

[oldtimer1]

I am actually lucky to be alive now as i had a very bad heart attack last year.  I recieved two heart stents.
I was feeling bad for a couple of days (bad heart burn ) then i said to my wife one morning i have a weird feeling iīm not ok.
I went under the shower & felt like i was punched in the chest.
I made it to my bedroom & the medics came & saved me.
Unfortunately it runs in my family
Started walking straight afterwards then cycling . Weight training again & martial arts training.
I honestly thought it was my time but fuck it. I can only say my first thoughts in my head were fuck i have a serious problem.. then i felt calm hard to explain.
The body & brain works in many ways we donīt understand.

That is disturbing. Glad the stents opened the damaged arteries. Prayers for you and your family.  Heart attacks are the number one killer of man world wide. My thoughts on this is meaningless and your cardiologist is the expert. I worry about heart attacks too. I'm presently trying to put equal weight to cardio and trying to keep my weight down. Trying to be big is foolish.  I've been running hard for distance lately. Sometimes I wonder if I'm going to induce a heart attack?

[Donny]

That is disturbing. Glad the stents opened the damaged arteries. Prayers for you and your family.  Heart attacks are the number one killer of man world wide. My thoughts on this is meaningless and your cardiologist is the expert. I worry about heart attacks too. I'm presently trying to put equal weight to cardio and trying to keep my weight down. Trying to be big is foolish.  I've been running hard for distance lately. Sometimes I wonder if I'm going to induce a heart attack?

I am lucky that the female Cardiologist who carried out the OP was very good .  canīt remember her name but she was foreign & not German.
I was told later she took over the OP as it was complicated .
It was an Artery in a very dangerous position & responsible for 70% of my heart.  I count my blessings.
none of us know when your time is up..itīs just is the way it is.

[oldtimer1]

Leg day: Walked fast for quarter mile on the treadmill to warm up and wake up. Did this workout before work. I use very few warm ups. Sometimes none on the weight exercises.

Leg press 2 x 12 (Using a lower weight than I usually do. What for me was a heavy weight was causing hip pain and knee pain. Used a lighter weight but a more precise style made my hip happy. I used two warms ups prior to the two work sets.)

dumbbell squat 2x12 (Got away from these. They are brutal if you do them right. I was out of the groove doing them and I will get better with the form.  The correct form is to hold dumbbells at the sides with straps. Upright back and sink the butt to maximum  depth. Since I got away from these I found I was bending over a little. If you deadlift the dumbbells you're wasting your time. It's not a dead lift. Zane called these dumbbell hacks.)

Stiff dead 1 x 6 (On a block. Found my flexibility was bad due to all the running I have been doing. Each rep got lower till I hit a good depth. One non taxing warm up set prior)

leg extension 2x20 (One warm up prior)
seated leg curl 2 x 15 (A little weak with these. I blame the running and the basically two weeks I took off lifting)

Hanging leg raise 1 x 27
Hip ups 1 x 30 (This is the method I used today.  I lied down on the floor. I did a leg raise each rep and at the top pushed my feet and hips toward the ceiling. Good movement.)

Standing calf raise 2 x 15 (I have the worst calves on earth. A guy I use to work with use to bust my balls saying how do you stand on those legs?  My thighs aren't bad but the calves look terrible, lol.)
Seated calf raise 2 x 15
tibalis 1 x 20

Four way neck machine 2 sets a side for 30 reps. ( I find neck work to be very satisfying. I use high reps for safety. You don't want to use a heavy weight with your neck especially as you age. The neck is very responsive too. Training your neck also improves your appearance. It gives your face a more masculine look.)

Some thoughts. I have been using the squat machine a lot lately. It's  a great movement. My legs get hit hard as well as the glutes. The dumbbell squats I used today instead of the squat machine are brutal. 

Regarding supplements. Some I use every other day instead of every day. Too much zinc isn't good. I have a multi that has it and separate zinc supplement. I use the zinc supplement every other day. Same with magnesium. If I take it every day  I get the runs.  Same with too much fish oil. I try to take two fish oil caps like the instructions say but sometimes I have to back off to one. 

[oldtimer1]

Delt and arm day: No warms ups shown. I did a few as needed and they were non taxing. For example for the military press I did two and a couple of arm circles with a 5lbs plate.

Military press 1 x 8 to failure, next set I got 6 reps. (Did this workout before work and as I type this in bed my one shoulder is throbbing. It's strange but standing dumbbell press doesn't irritate my shoulder. I might have to permanently ditch these. If I know myself I won't stop using them until I can barely move my arm, lol.)

Dumbbell delt laterals 2 x 12

Seated rear delt dumbbell laterals 2x11

Face pulls 2 x 12

Barbell shrugs 2 x 10
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Traditional tricep pulley push downs 2 x 10
Single dumbbell with two hands behind the head 2 x 12
Rope push downs 2x12
Weighted dips 2 x 10
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barbell curls 2 x 10 (used a lighter weight than normal. I was using too much weight before and I wasn't feeling the bicep working. Too much body English was used to get the weight up.)
Alternate dumbbell curls 2 x 8 (Running too much has really made me weak and I felt it on this exercise.)
Dumbbell drag curls 2 x 12
Concentration curls 2x12
-----------------------------------------------------------------
wrist curls 2 x 20
wrist extensions 2x15
Ivanko gripper 2 x 20 (one upright and the second I flipped the thing upside down)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Weighted crunches 1 x 50
Pulley crunches 1 x 50
Planned to end the workout with decline crunches but I had to get ready for work.

I believe in the health benefits of distance running and how it helps so much with getting lean. Here are the drawbacks. When I put too many miles in for the week I feel weak in the weight room. It also seems to shed a some muscle. I can see my legs getting skinny.

Only a superman could run hard for five miles two days in a row then expect to lift good numbers for leg day or for deadlifts. Maybe guys on the juice can recover a lot faster but I can't.

  It seems to follow a pattern with my training. When lifting is going fantastic my cardio abilities go down hill. When my VO2 max is fantastic the weight room suffers. Hard to be master of two differing physical endeavors. Master of none but good in both seems to come to mind.

I think using volume might be the answer while trying to get good running times. Using low sets and to failure might not be a good approach. Volume is more of a muscular endurance type weight workout.  Might be easier to combine the two if heavy weights aren't combined with running. For example I started shoulders today with a planned 2 sets of 8  reps in the military press. I might have more success combining it with running if I did something like 4 x 10 with a moderate weight for the military press. That way the first three sets wouldn't be near failure but if the correct weight was chosen I would fail on the last set of the four sets.

 I remember reading about a guy that lifted heavy but had a perma bulker look. He blew out his shoulder and he left lifting to run while he recovered from the operation. His advise was in effect, Don't be afraid of light weights, high reps and perfect form. The guy was ripped. He looked so much better than the Dad body physique he had before.

[oldtimer1]

Did nothing today.    No work and no work out.  Slept late which is unusual for me with my insomnia. Chillin like a villin. See I'm up with the teenage lingo. Maybe it's down with the teenage lingo? Just found out there's naked women having sex on the internet. I think I'm going to be occupied for awhile. Now where did I put that bottle of whiskey I bought last week? Maybe I left it in the trunk of my car. (Poor attempt at humor)

[Donny]

Did nothing today.    No work and no work out.  Slept late which is unusual for me with my insomnia. Chillin like a villin. See I'm up with the teenage lingo. Maybe it's down with the teenage lingo? Just found out there's naked women having sex on the internet. I think I'm going to be occupied for awhile. Now where did I put that bottle of whiskey I bought last week? Maybe I left it in the trunk of my car.

you know if youīre not sleeping well then maybe you should cut back on the cardio. Instead of running try a bike ride at a leisurely pace which is productive to recovery after weight training on off days.
I think when youīre older burning the candle at both ends is very hard. the body can adapt better to one hard stimulus rather than extreme cardo and heavy lifting.
Maybe you should make either cardio or lifting your no.1 priority.
Both when older are extremely hard if natural like you are.

[oldtimer1]

you know if youīre not sleeping well then maybe you should cut back on the cardio. Instead of running try a bike ride at a leisurely pace which is productive to recovery after weight training on off days.
I think when youīre older burning the candle at both ends is very hard. the body can adapt better to one hard stimulus rather than extreme cardo and heavy lifting.
Maybe you should make either cardio or lifting your no.1 priority.
Both when older are extremely hard if natural like you are.

Yes, recovery is important. I took yesterday off and I might take today off too. Yes, I burn the candle at both ends. Drinking booze three days a week isn't helping recovery either. Last week I went running the days after having a few. It really puts me in a deficit. It's also dangerous to run the day after drinking because your heart can go into a dangerous heart rhythm at this age. Going to try moderate weights soon and going to push the running more. When I emphasize running it has a better effect on my blood panel reference markers like blood sugar, triglycerides and HDL's than lifting.

[Donny]

Yes, recovery is important. I took yesterday off and I might take today off too. Yes, I burn the candle at both ends. Drinking booze three days a week isn't helping recovery either. Last week I went running the days after having a few. It really puts me in a deficit. It's also dangerous to run the day after drinking because your heart can go into a dangerous heart rhythm at this age. Going to try moderate weights soon and going to push the running more. When I emphasize running it has a better effect on my blood panel reference markers like blood sugar, triglycerides and HDL's than lifting.

yes i go cycling now & can vary my speed/intensity to suit me. I actually did a bike test at my cardiologist in January & he was impressed by my score. It was a score normally found in a person at my age without any cardiovascular problems.
so lucky for me my heart itself is fine & the Artery will now have grown over the stents.
Itīs like nature growing over an old building, Ivy..etc.  Stents grow into your artery & are grown over with tissue.
On Tuesday i was at a medical check up in Hamburg & was told my resting Heart rate was signs i have always been active therefor i can only conclude that my years of activity probably saved my life & helped the healing process as i have recovered very well.

[Donny]

anyway i didnīt want to rant about me ..so yes cardio is important regardless what you do.

[oldtimer1]

anyway i didnīt want to rant about me ..so yes cardio is important regardless what you do.

The heart is a muscle but most guys interested in bodybuilding treat it as an after thought. It should be given priority since heart attacks are the number one killer of man. If a bodybuilder had to show their heart muscle they would be training it hard but since no one can see it they hardly train it.

[Donny]

The heart is a muscle but most guys interested in bodybuilding treat it as an after thought. It should be given priority since heart attacks are the number one killer of man. If a bodybuilder had to show their heart muscle they would be training it hard but since no one can see it they hardly train it.

well i wonīt rant on about steroids as i have never used them (not against them) but still had a heart attack, even top athletes can have one.
I think regular weight training will give you a good heart workout too in a watered down version compared to cardio obviously depending how you train, PHA ..etc.
Even Vince Gironda who was against cardio was often seen cycling.

[oldtimer1]

well i wonīt rant on about steroids as i have never used them (not against them) but still had a heart attack, even top athletes can have one.
I think regular weight training will give you a good heart workout too in a watered down version compared to cardio obviously depending how you train, PHA ..etc.
Even Vince Gironda who was against cardio was often seen cycling.

Vince Gironda ran a 2:11 half mile. Not to shabby.

[Donny]

Vince Gironda ran a 2:11 half mile. Not to shabby.

I never knew that as he was noted as being against cardio. something about cardio depleting hormones.

[Donny]

he mentions it here in this old article... 

Long distance running also causes hormone loss


https://physicalculturestudy.com/2021/04/02/vince-gironda-calculating-the-pump-ironman-july-1983/

[SweetDaddySiki]

he mentions it here in this old article... 

Long distance running also causes hormone loss


https://physicalculturestudy.com/2021/04/02/vince-gironda-calculating-the-pump-ironman-july-1983/

Don't forget about Overtonus too.       
Some of his ideas are great (ex - chest work) but some are way off like Overtonus though I do love that word.

[Donny]

Don't forget about Overtonus too.       
Some of his ideas are great (ex - chest work) but some are way off like Overtonus though I do love that word.

he was very Radical !

[oldtimer1]

I never knew that as he was noted as being against cardio. something about cardio depleting hormones.

Yes, he was against running but he did it for a period and was a very good runner.

[oldtimer1]

Sorry I haven't been logging. Just lazy. So I apologize to my one reader. Still thinking about the HIT model and the volume (reps in reserve model). I'm reading Personal best, a running book by a top competitor now coach Mark Coogan.  I know most meat head bodybuilder types think there is nothing they can learn about weight training from a distance runner. I disagree and I pick up stuff that applies to lifting. Let me explain. 

The author was a good runner in college  bordering on elite.  During college he took training to the jagged edge every time he ran. That's the way I was in high school and college with my running. Had the mentality if you don't push it close to death you're not a man and have no work ethic. That author was the same way in college. After college he was training with some elite world class runners. What shocked him was many of the workouts weren't hard. He called them B plus workouts. He was use to A plus workouts. What he came to realize is that he was leaving his race on training days and when the race came up he was flat. He was just exhausted and his central nervous system was fried. His recommendation was a runner that accumulated a lot of B plus training days with a few A plus training days will improve better that someone that just hammers it all the time. He ran his best races ever even qualifying for the Olympics using plenty of B plus runs with the occasional A plus effort.

How does this apply to weight training?  It got me thinking. Long time HIT guys all have a period where they are losing strength despite their best efforts. It's just being exhausted. I define HIT as either one or two work sets to failure. I've come to the realization here I am in my mid 60's and I'm still chasing that A plus weight workout.  Ending a set breathing like a race horse and barely able to stand. Sure it shows a work ethic but could it be hurting progress?  Just came to the realization that maybe someone like me that trains most of the time in the Mentzer and Yates protocols that I might do better alternating a week to failure and a week to a B plus workouts. Below is what I'm thinking about doing.

Let me explain.  My chest workout today was this training with one work set to failure after zero, one or two warm up sets.

Dumbbell flat bench 1 x 9 (The 9th rep was failure. All the following reps shown is my failure rep)
Incline dumbbell bench 1 x 10
Decline dumbbell bench 1 x 8
Flat fly 1 x 15

Now the above would be a sample of my heavy week.  Next week will be a B Plus workout using the same weights.
Dumbbell flat bench 1 x 8
Incline dumbbell bench 1 x 8
Decline dumbbell bench 1 x 7
Flat fly 1 x 10

I think alternating will be less draining and might take me further than always pursuing that jagged last rep to failure. Of course taking a week off entirely also has a place in training.

I have stated before I like training with the one set to failure like Yates, Cardillo (Mr. Canada) and Dave Mastorakis. I can't even put Mentzer on that one set list because for his whole bodybuilding career he normally did two work sets an exercise. Something about using a heavy weight and giving it your all then moving on.  Like Yates said if you feel you can do another set with the same amount of reps you didn't go to failure on the first set. Every time I try volume I don't know how anyone holds reps in reserve. If anyone says they do four to six sets of an exercise to failure every set they are telling a tale or doesn't know how to push to true failure. Unless they are decreasing the reps every set. With two sets to failure the first set is near failure and the second is true failure. With the one set model it's give it all or go home.

Today's workout:

Flat dumbbell bench 1 x 9
Incline dumbbell bench 1x10
Decline bench 1 x 8
Flat flies 1 x 15

EZ bar curls 1 x 15 (these got a little sloppy at the end)
Alternate dumbbell curls 1 x 10
Dumbbell drag curls 1 x 13
concentration curls 1 x 13

wrist curls 1 x 32
wrist extensions 1 x 20

Incline sit up 1 x 27
Incline leg raise 1 x 15

Ivanko gripper 2x20

Then jumped on a treadmill for around 42 minutes walking fast at 3.8 MPH increasing the incline every lap (440 Yards or a quarter mile.)

Off to watch an episode of  Curb you Enthusiasm. So think about it. Is having a a week of killer workouts and a B plus workout the week after a good idea? I think it is. Robby used that concept too. He would train the the body in a three way split hard and heavy then the next three day cycle would be easier.  Maybe Robby knew a thing or two.