Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Nutrition, Products & Supplements Info => Topic started by: Princess L on June 09, 2006, 09:15:11 PM
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Okay, it will be more than 10, but the title got you to look ;D
Let's keep this thread clean ~ no BS products.
Here's a start ~ with basic /general dosages
I don't consider a Multi part of the top 10 since it basically goes without saying...
Creatine and Ephedra fall into what I would call a "conditional use" category
Glutamine 15g/day when cutting.
Multi
Bs
C 500mg/3x day or more
Calcium Women 1000-1500 split doses
Chromium 200mcg
D 1000iu
E ~400~800IU mixed tocopherols
Fish Oil 3-6 grams
Glucosamine 1500mg
Potassium 99mcg
Zinc 30mg
What the heck happened to the formatting ^ ???
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Ginkgo biloba -- makes you smart
;D
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True story: I have a friend who bought Ginko to help with her memory . . . and kept forgetting to take it. :)
My list:
- protein - 50g (25 a.m., 25 p.m.)
- creatine - 10g (5 a.m, 5 p.m.)
- glutamine - (same)
- multi - a.m./p.m.
- C - 1000mg a.m./p.m.
- E - 400IU p.m.
- Glucosamine/Chondroitin - p.m.
- ZMA (GNC brand) - p.m. Just started again after not using for several years. Love this product.
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fish oil capsules is at least in the top 5
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Ginkgo biloba -- makes you smart
;D
My dad took that stuff for several months with no noticeable effects according to him, but I don't think he was taking it religiously. I heard too that it takes quite some time to kick in. I did take it religiously and after exactly one month, I noticed my mind was sharp as a razor. I was quick as hell. Then, a couple days later my anxiety level shot up. So, I stopped taking it. But it does work, just not on everyone.
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These supps wont help build muscle but if I get real sick to the point were I cont train they sure get me back in the gym quicker.
Elderberry, propolis, olive leaf, silver mixture
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P'ss L, why do you only use glutamine when cutting?
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P'ss L, why do you only use glutamine when cutting?
As an immune system booster.
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Good stuff and very thorough
http://www.nutros.com/nsr.php
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Good Job! Thanks Princess
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Good info Thanks
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1 MRP'S
2 whey
3 glutamine
4 creatine
5 Vit C
6 Vit E
7 Glucosamine/Chondroition
8 Milk Thistle
9 digestive enzime
10 Hoodia Pure
I use these everyday. They're time tested and are backed by science. Plus they work for me.
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it's a geneic disease. The disorder affects the way the body metabolizes certain components of protein. These components are the three branch-chain amino-acids leucine, isoleucine, and valine. These amino acids accumulate in the blood causing a toxic effect that interferes with brain function.
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I don't understand why, I prefer to take a mulit with some c and e but everytime I start taking them, about two weeks in, I start getting cold sores. It happened a couple months back. I tried sticking through it and continued taking the pills. Everytime one cold sore went away a day or two later another would pop up. On my lips mostly, but on my nose and cheek too. Sure enough, I stopped taking the pills and I haven't had a cold sore since..................s trange huh?
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I am now addicted to l-arginine
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www.creablast.net I like that
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Supplements that help to build muscle? LOL! There aren't any (that can be legally purchased, anyway)!
Okay, protein powder is a good thing if you're not getting enough protein from food, or simply aren't hungry for solid food that many times per day.
Creatine does give you a little extra energy in the gym, allowing an extra rep or two. Does this translate into more muscle? That's debatable.
Ephedrine w caffeine is an effective fat burner/ diet aid.
Other that that, forget it..... scam city!
Some of the items mentioned above by others are great supplements for general health (fish oil, vitamins, minerals, and many others, many of which I take myself for health reasons), but do not have any specific value for bodybuilding.
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Supplements that help to build muscle? LOL! There aren't any (that can be legally purchased, anyway)!
Okay, protein powder is a good thing if you're not getting enough protein from food, or simply aren't hungry for solid food that many times per day.
Creatine does give you a little extra energy in the gym, allowing an extra rep or two. Does this translate into more muscle? That's debatable.
Ephedrine w caffeine is an effective fat burner/ diet aid.
Other that that, forget it..... scam city!
Some of the items mentioned above by others are great supplements for general health (fish oil, vitamins, minerals, and many others, many of which I take myself for health reasons), but do not have any specific value for bodybuilding.
Correct.
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I have always stuck to a select few:
1 - Protein Powder
2 - Multis
3 - Creatine (cant take it anymore due to extreme headaches and dizziness)
4 - Ephedra
Thats about it, and the last one is only for energy. I used to love creatine, but it kicks my ass now!
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I have always stuck to a select few:
1 - Protein Powder
2 - Multis
3 - Creatine (cant take it anymore due to extreme headaches and dizziness)
4 - Ephedra
Thats about it, and the last one is only for energy. I used to love creatine, but it kicks my ass now!
Just curious about the reason you say you can't take Creatine anymore? Did you experience other health issues that maybe linked to the symptoms you say came from taking Creatine? I know everyone responds differently but I have used the stuff for almost 10 years off and on and never had anything more than an upset stomach when I first start taking it. After about a week my body gets used to it and then the gains begin to show.
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Just curious about the reason you say you can't take Creatine anymore? Did you experience other health issues that maybe linked to the symptoms you say came from taking Creatine? I know everyone responds differently but I have used the stuff for almost 10 years off and on and never had anything more than an upset stomach when I first start taking it. After about a week my body gets used to it and then the gains begin to show.
he's probably taking too much per dose and getting the poops
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Nah, I get headaches and dizziness from it. No matter how much. I have tried many different versions to see if they work but they all make me sick. Any suggestions are welcome!
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What about digestive/protein absorption related supplements? In this regard, I'm currently taking acidophilus and papaya/bromelain. Maybe not top ten material, but worthy of consideration.
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What about digestive/protein absorption related supplements? In this regard, I'm currently taking acidophilus and papaya/bromelain. Maybe not top ten material, but worthy of consideration.
One of the main things about steroids is increased protein absorbtion. Maybe there's a legal product that can match or come close to steroids in that sense. Would seem pretty worthwhile if there was.
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#1 should be food.....WITHOUT FOOD NONE OF THOSE SUPS.WILL EVEN WORK YA HEARD? ;D ;D ;D
Wow!
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#1 should be food.....WITHOUT FOOD NONE OF THOSE SUPS.WILL EVEN WORK YA HEARD? ;D ;D ;D
Repeat after me:
Food is not a supplement.
Food is not a supplement.
Food is not a supplement.
Food is not a supplement . . .
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ANy of u take magnusium or zinc or dessicated liver tabs??
davie
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I don't understand why, I prefer to take a mulit with some c and e but everytime I start taking them, about two weeks in, I start getting cold sores. It happened a couple months back. I tried sticking through it and continued taking the pills. Everytime one cold sore went away a day or two later another would pop up. On my lips mostly, but on my nose and cheek too. Sure enough, I stopped taking the pills and I haven't had a cold sore since..................s trange huh?
i don't understand why u double posted, lol
my boy, sounds like what you've got is a good ol case of the herpes...not the dirtydirt kind, but herpes of another kind
ever try l-lysine for that? better steer clear of anything containing arginine too...
hope this helps!
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I have been using ON All Natural Whey protein. It is VERY light and has no artificial flavoring. No bloating, low sodium!! Its a great SUPP!
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Definitely my recommendation after 10+ years training experience is:
Whey protein Isolate (ALLMAX Isoflex 90%)
glutamine
omega efa's liquid - udo's oil
green food mixture a.m - vit/min, detoxification, liver support, natural energizers, blood sugar stabilizers Greens +
NOXPLODE preworkout/CELLMASS postworkout
These are by far the most useful supplements for me
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It is very important to lower your cortisol level, (fast is possible after workout),
the faster your cortisol is at normal range the faster you will recover, the best product for that is Humanofort, specially if you on prohomones or you an the juice.
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New one to add to my top 10:
Horsepower
It's A W E S O M E
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In no particular order:
protein powder
creatine
beta alanine
BCAAs
Flax seed oil
baby aspirin
bromelain
caffeine
vitamin C
waxy maize
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Top 10 (in no particular order):
Ultra Peptide
Activate Xtreme
X-Factor
Purple Wraath
Size On Tabs
MVP-365 + ZMK
Drive
Carlson Cod Liver Oil
ZI Bar
ClearShot
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One of the main things about steroids is increased protein absorbtion. Maybe there's a legal product that can match or come close to steroids in that sense. Would seem pretty worthwhile if there was.
there are alot of products that increase protein synthesis, but none of them do it so effectively as aas....but this thread is about supplements, i suppose, not gear...
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Whey
BCAA
glutamine
creatine
Fish/Flax Oil
Zinc
Cissus
Sesamine
Desiccated liver
Amino Acid Tabs
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Top 10 (in no particular order):
Ultra Peptide
Activate Xtreme
X-Factor
Purple Wraath
Size On Tabs
MVP-365 + ZMK
Drive
Carlson Cod Liver Oil
ZI Bar
ClearShot
All trademarked names ::)
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I'm simple
Whey
Glutamine
Creatine (I cycle it)
B-complex
glucosamine
BCAA's
I used to use dessicated liver, but the mad cow thing kinda killed that
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i really have to say that the makers of animal pack have a product out called "sterols" that is really worth their cost.
they are horse sized plant sterol pills that smell bad. you take two after each meal. they really make me feel fuller, harder, and stronger. only 20 dollars at gnc.
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i really have to say that the makers of animal pack have a product out called "sterols" that is really worth their cost.
they are horse sized plant sterol pills that smell bad. you take two after each meal. they really make me feel fuller, harder, and stronger. only 20 dollars at gnc.
debatable
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i really have to say that the makers of animal pack have a product out called "sterols" that is really worth their cost.
they are horse sized plant sterol pills that smell bad. you take two after each meal. they really make me feel fuller, harder, and stronger. only 20 dollars at gnc.
Sterols??? Haaa haaa....those never worked in the early '90's, what makes you think things have changed?
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okay guys save your money and dont try them. i think theyve been discontinued so the less you buy the more i will be able to...
for those of you serious bb'rs with a little extra cash on hand tha want to try something new....the product(animal pack plant sterols) works really well for me.
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okay guys save your money and dont try them. i think theyve been discontinued so the less you buy the more i will be able to...
for those of you serious bb'rs with a little extra cash on hand tha want to try something new....the product(animal pack plant sterols) works really well for me.
ok "candidizzle"
you eat you plnt sterils
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ok "candidizzle"
you eat you plnt sterils
LOL!! Candi, I also have some Velvet Deer Antler for sale. Will raise test levels to ungodly levels ;)
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Candidizzle, is the ANY supplement you don't take?
You seem to down everything you can get your hands on....
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Has anyone tried MRI's Anabolic Switch or Methyl 1-D from LG Sciences? Just curious on feedback. Thanks.
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1 MRP'S
2 whey
3 glutamine
4 creatine
5 Vit C
6 Vit E
7 Glucosamine/Chondroition
8 Milk Thistle
9 digestive enzime
10 Hoodia Pure
I use these everyday. They're time tested and are backed by science. Plus they work for me.
Good list, the only question mark is Hoodia and milk thistle, as the jury is still out on them?
No matter, if they work for you and keep you healthy that is what really matters
I would add to this excellent list, a thermogenic when cutting and /or traing hard.
I just found a cheap, effective one from Ballys for only $9.95 for 60 tabs at Wal-greens drug store.
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for fat burning eith er go with stimulant based eca+yohimbine
or
non stimulant extra strength egcg +fish oil + yohimbine
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sesamin is probably the best non stim fat burner
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Over the years I have come to the conclusion that only a few are worth taking. Also, some companies make better versions of similar products.
Protein Shake (Opticen from ALN is the best I've found)
Multi Vitamin (AST brand)
EFA (NOW brand)
Creatine (Ultimate)
Fat Burner/Energy (NITOR by far!)
Other than that, STEAK, POTATOES, and BROCCOLI!!! ;D
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Only things that are worth taking (in addition to food of course) are:
Whey Protein Powder
Multivitamin
MRP (for post workout)
Anything else is pointless.
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Only things that are worth taking (in addition to food of course) are:
Whey Protein Powder
Multivitamin
MRP (for post workout)
Anything else is pointless.
fish oil, vit c, ala, calcium....
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fish oil, vit c, ala, calcium....
... green tea, zinc, BCAA, ...
anything else is pointless is a bit too much.
There are some really good supplements, not only whey and mv.
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Dual Tabs
Fish Oil
CLA
Gold Standard Whey
Trip Berry Redline
Cholostrom
Glucosimine
Psyllium Seed
NO for cardio
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out of all the nutrients magnesium is the most imp imo, along with zinc.
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... green tea, zinc, BCAA, ...
anything else is pointless is a bit too much.
There are some really good supplements, not only whey and mv.
Ditto on the green tea. I never go a day without six capsules and also Monday through Friday in (hot) liquid form as well.
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the real top 10 for bodybuilding
1. good multi
2. at least 1 gram of protein per body pound
3. good source of carbs wit low sugar( carb slam, vitargo cgl, volu grow, cyto carb...)
4. anti oxidants, great frm gnc n ther multi
5. at least 10 grams of glutamine
6. aminos
7. nitric oxide isnt mandatory but wil give a great pump n a kick n ur ass(best= xl evol, black powder, juggernaut)(worst= no plasmacore, nano vapor, no xplode, no shotgun)
8. recovery product( mass recovery, dark matter, or 221 recovery)
9. fish oils
10. if u dnt consume enough calories weight gainer( muscle juice, iso mass, procomplex gainer)
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3. good source of carbs wit low sugar( carb slam, vitargo cgl, volu grow, cyto carb...)
JOB !! its all sugar bro ;D
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After about 15yrs of taking and trying new supplements religiously, I've narrowed it down to these for myself.
multi vitamin 2x daily
pure whey protein isolate
glutamine
green food complex
Branch chain amino acid/ ketoisacaproic acid complex - pre and post workout
alternating cycles of 3-6-9 efa blend and fishoil.
also some Noxplode for occasional use on those drag ass days to amp up the workout
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JOB
glutamine is useless for oral supplementation and is readily made de novo.
also, you cant take NO, on create it via l-arginine metabolism, so i assume you mean l-arginine.
you didnt like no-shotgun? one of the best sellers i have at the store.
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you didnt like no-shotgun? one of the best sellers i have at the store.
I hear a lot of complaints from guys who've tried it that it gives them the shits pretty bad. I never had any issues with it doing that, but I become non responsive to pretty much any NO product after about a week so I don't really bother with them.
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Multi
Bs
C 500mg/3x day or more
Calcium Women 1000-1500 split doses
Chromium 200mcg
E 400-800IU mixxed tocopherols
Fish Oil 3-6 grams
Glucosamine 1500mg
Glutamine 15+ grams when cutting
Potassium 99mcg
Zinc 30mg
Hey Pl, question. I have all of these supplements now, almost.
Zinc - 50 mg / day
Potassium = 99mcg / day
Glutamine = (l-glutamine, same thing?) 1000mg tablets, do I take 15 of those / day on my diet and hi cardio I am on?
Multi - GNC mens vitaman / day
C - I have 1000mg in the vitamin, and a 500mg tablet / day
Chromium 200mcg - Couldn't find this at gnc, I am a noob.
E 400-800IU mixxed tocopherols - 2 400mg E / day
Fish Oil - I have 300mg tablets, and the are pretty big pills. So for 3grams = 10 of these / day
Glucosamine - 1500mg / day : 3 500mg tablets
Does this look ok PL?
Thank you so much! I owe all of this to you :)
-b
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out of all the nutrients magnesium is the most imp imo, along with zinc.
very very true, most of us who train are deficient in both. I prefer to use them on their own though instead of in a zma supp. Magnesium right before bed and zinc in the am and before bed.
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JOB !! its all sugar bro ;D
What a dumbass comment, definitely out of touch with the literature. Pretender.
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What a dumbass comment, definitely out of touch with the literature. Pretender.
i assume you are joking >:(
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i assume you are joking >:(
You assume wrongly, not all sugar is sugar. As any newbie with his first issue of Muscle and Fitness will know there are different absorption rates, your body utilizes different sugars in different ways. It's like saying "All protein is protein" when you are comparing the bio-availability of whey protein versus brussle sprouts. I would suggest hit the modify key and explain your post a little better because it comes off as quite uneducated.
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You assume wrongly, not all sugar is sugar. As any newbie with his first issue of Muscle and Fitness will know there are different absorption rates, your body utilizes different sugars in different ways. It's like saying "All protein is protein" when you are comparing the bio-availability of whey protein versus brussle sprouts. I would suggest hit the modify key and explain your post a little better because it comes off as quite uneducated.
all the ones he listed are absorbed QUICKLy just like sugar. sure, broccoli sugar is absorbed slower than oatmeal sugar, which is absorbed slower than rice sugar, wich is absorbed slower than dextrose. but all thse he posted up are liquid sugars that absorb very quickly, about the same rate as eachother.
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all the ones he listed are absorbed QUICKLy just like sugar. sure, broccoli sugar is absorbed slower than oatmeal sugar, which is absorbed slower than rice sugar, wich is absorbed slower than dextrose. but all thse he posted up are liquid sugars that absorb very quickly, about the same rate as eachother.
OK mang, you explained, you have the official MidniteRambo absolution. Now go forth my son . . .
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After many years of trying supplements, here are the one's that work well for me along with a quick reason why i think they help me.
1. Kre-Alkalyn liquid creatine- Hadn't used creating in a long time because I always got bloated looking on it, even the ethyl-ester versions. I tried this the last 6 weeks. I have gotten extreme fullness in my muscles, great pumps and no bloated look.
2. 6-oxo- It works good on me for about 6 weeks, then the effects diminish. Definitely hardens up my physique from lowering estrogen. I get the best results from 3 caps a day, when I go to 6, I lose some libido. 3 increases my sex drive.
3. VPX Hemogex- Actually contains real GH Peptide #2. Plenty of data about GH peptide2 raising Gh levels. Seen some fat loss and increased pumps on this. I get it online and save about $70 instead of at a health food store. I run 2 boxes (2 months) and lay off a few weeks. Good..but kind of pricey.
4. Sci-Fit- Eurycoma 1500 Ex- The only herbal test booster I have really felt. Incredible sex drive booster.
5. Whey protein Isolate- Regular whey blends bloat my stomach, but I do well with Isolate.
I did a few mild cycles several years back, and then competed clean after being natural for 5 years. I mention this because I know when a supplement works on myself and when it doesn't. This stack makes me get the pump and fullness that I felt back in the 80's when I did a small Winstrol cycle.
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Ginkgo biloba -- makes you smart
;D
no it doesn't, it just makes you remember. You still gotta learn on your own buddy, lol. :D ;D
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Hey Pl, question. I have all of these supplements now, almost.
Zinc - 50 mg / day
Potassium = 99mcg / day
Glutamine = (l-glutamine, same thing?) 1000mg tablets, do I take 15 of those / day on my diet and hi cardio I am on?
Multi - GNC mens vitaman / day
C - I have 1000mg in the vitamin, and a 500mg tablet / day
Chromium 200mcg - Couldn't find this at gnc, I am a noob.
E 400-800IU mixxed tocopherols - 2 400mg E / day
Fish Oil - I have 300mg tablets, and the are pretty big pills. So for 3grams = 10 of these / day
Glucosamine - 1500mg / day : 3 500mg tablets
Does this look ok PL?
Thank you so much! I owe all of this to you :)
-b
Vitamin D - 1000iu/day is now recommended.
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Vitamin D - 1000iu/day is now recommended.
Thanks for the comment, PL
If you notice, it looks like I am not taking nearly enough Fish Oil or Glutamine. You say to take 3-6grams of glutamine, and I am taking L-Glutamine 1 gram pills, should I take 3-6 of these when cutting?
Also, 300mg of fish oil, should I take 10 of these / day ? (to get 3 grams)
PS: Couldn't find Chromium at GNC :/
Thanks for all the help, this really makes me feel a ton better, just want to make sure I am doing it right.
Thanks PL!!!!
-Brandon
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I just purchased some zma explode and was wondering what kind of results anyone had with this if any.
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I just purchased some zma explode and was wondering what kind of results anyone had with this if any.
better sleep, besides that nothing.
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I’ve been getting favorable results with Vitamin B – getting plenty of 1&12 from liver tabs and a full spectrum B “super complex,” which also has B6.
B12 is good for converting the food you eat into energy, and B6 is important for the nervous system.
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1-9: good food
10: whey or simply more protein from good food
Everything else is virtually useless for bodybuilding.
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1-9: good food
10: whey or simply more protein from good food
Everything else is virtually useless for bodybuilding.
What? surely someone who is intelligent cant possibly beleive that with the giant mass of research proving otherwise.
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What? surely someone who is intelligent cant possibly beleive that with the giant mass of research proving otherwise.
;D
You are kidding, right?
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I disagree that all supplements are worthless. I have seen good results from the anti-aromatase supplement 6-0x0 and better pumps from the increased test production. Also have recently gained some lean muscular bodyweight recently from drinking a whey Hydrolosate (not plain isolate but an enzymatic digest of whey isolate) twice a day, and after training 30 years, you notice when something works or not. Vitrex boosted my test levels to the point I started seeing a little gyno, so I know that worked for me as well. I would say some test boosting sups work well if you're over 40 like myself..I see big difference in libido and muscle hardness.
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;D
You are kidding, right?
He is absolutely NOT kidding. And it would behoove you to take note of all that he says, usmokepole is one of the most knowledgeable people in regards to nutrition that you will EVER get the priveledge of talking with.
;)
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He is absolutely NOT kidding. And it would behoove you to take note of all that he says, usmokepole is one of the most knowledgeable people in regards to nutrition that you will EVER get the priveledge of talking with.
;)
Every single supplement I ever took did absolutely nothing - in terms of bodybuilding. And I tried to do cuts and bulks with or without them. As long as there are no emperical scientific studies on a supplement, showing that there is a difference between taking it and not, I have to dismiss it as useless. The study would have to show that there is an actual difference for the purpose of bodybuilding, which is increasing muscle tissue resp. decreasing fat tissue at a better ratio than without it. Every "study" I ever performed on myself, clearly showed that they have no effect at all. I had a very enlightening discussion with Will Brink on that topic. According to him, supplement companies use the "throw shit on the wall and see what sticks" method. They do no research, have no idea if their supplements do anything, and they couldn't care less. For some reason, people are willing to believe the lies nonetheless (the shit sticks).
I'm not talking about hormones, pro-hormones and anabolic steroids, of course.
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Every single supplement I ever took did absolutely nothing - in terms of bodybuilding. And I tried to do cuts and bulks with or without them. As long as there are no emperical scientific studies on a supplement, showing that there is a difference between taking it and not, I have to dismiss it as useless. The study would have to show that there is an actual difference for the purpose of bodybuilding, which is increasing muscle tissue resp. decreasing fat tissue at a better ratio than without it. Every "study" I ever performed on myself, clearly showed that they have no effect at all.
I'm not talking about hormones, pro-hormones and anabolic steroids, of course.
I suggest you ask usmokepole for some suggestions for a quality supplement "stack". And see for yourself if it works. Maybe you tried all the wrong products, or werent taking them correctly.
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I suggest you ask usmokepole for some suggestions for a quality supplement "stack". And see for yourself if it works. Maybe you tried all the wrong products, or werent taking them correctly.
Funny that's always the argument, if something doesn't work, I must have done it all wrong. How about companies providing emperical scientific evidence before putting out products? I tried a lot of stuff and I did my research. Everybody who claims a certain supplement helps him in his bodybuilding goals (providing a better ratio of muscle tissue gain resp. fat loss), please do the exact same thing two times in a row but the second time without the supplement. As long as you have not done that, you don't know if it works for you.
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Funny that's always the argument, if something doesn't work, I must have done it all wrong. How about companies providing emperical scientific evidence before putting out products? I tried a lot of stuff and I did my research. Everybody who claims a certain supplement helps him in his bodybuilding goals (providing a better ratio of muscle tissue gain resp. fat loss), please do the exact same thing two times in a row but the second time without the supplement. As long as you have not done that, you don't know if it works for you.
The problem is that in order to see the results, the difference without the product and those results, you need hundreds of years of time to do all that testing on yourself. there are dozens of things that have tons of research showing they are beneficial. if you want me to take 6 months to try each one, and 6 months to try without each one.. were are talking 50+ years of time just to find out whats the right combo of foods and supplements to use.
ONE supplement is going to make any difference. BUT when you combine a few supplements together, then you get to start seeing the progress pick up the pace. There isn't one Magic Bullet, its more like a magic cartridge filled with bullets that when combined produce the magic.
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The problem is that in order to see the results, the difference without the product and those results, you need hundreds of years of time to do all that testing on yourself. there are dozens of things that have tons of research showing they are beneficial. if you want me to take 6 months to try each one, and 6 months to try without each one.. were are talking 50+ years of time just to find out whats the right combo of foods and supplements to use.
ONE supplement is going to make any difference. BUT when you combine a few supplements together, then you get to start seeing the progress pick up the pace. There isn't one Magic Bullet, its more like a magic cartridge filled with bullets that when combined produce the magic.
It doesn't take 100 years. I did it in 10. You can do it in 1. Here's a simple experiment you can try: Do a 3 month bulk and a 3 month cut with all your supps in perfect combination. Then do the exact same thing with none of them. Keep everything else constant. If some of your supplements add a substantial part of macros, substitute them in the second try with macros from real food. We will assume that none of the supps do any harm. This means if you see no difference between the two tries, all supplements you took are useless. I did that, and not only with supps but also with a lot of other bodybuilding methods.
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THAT I have done, and yes the supplements I take do make a difference for me.
Heres what I take when gaining=
Whey isolate
Creatine
Fish oil
Zinc
Magneisum
Melatonin
Caffiene
Heres what I take when cutting=
Whey isolate
Fish oil
Evening primrose oil
Zinc
magnesium
melatonin
EGCG
Ephedrine-caffiene-aspirin
Some kind of carb drink
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THAT I have done, and yes the supplements I take do make a difference for me.
Heres what I take when gaining=
Whey isolate
Creatine
Fish oil
Zinc
Magneisum
Melatonin
Caffiene
Heres what I take when cutting=
Whey isolate
Fish oil
Evening primrose oil
Zinc
magnesium
melatonin
EGCG
Ephedrine-caffiene-aspirin
Some kind of carb drink
Supplements that can easily be substituted with real food and would be considered part of a balanced diet anyway, don't count IMO.
I have explained my method of determining if a supplement works, what's yours?
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None of those supplements I take could be substituted with "real food", for the purpouses that I use them.
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None of those supplements I take could be substituted with "real food", for the purpouses that I use them.
OK, then:
I have explained my method of determining if a supplement works, what's yours?
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Do results come?
thats it.
well, certain supps i can 'feel' that they work.
when im dieting, Taking whey pre workout when im low carbs really increases my energy levels and boosts my strength. So i KNOW that that works. ECA i can feel working, and i notice changes quickly. Fish oil definitely works, without fish oil i start to put on fat around 400g carbs per day..with fish oil I do not. I Can feel the melatonin every night when it makes me tired(i dont get tired without it).
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Do results come?
thats it.
well, certain supps i can 'feel' that they work.
when im dieting, Taking whey pre workout when im low carbs really increases my energy levels and boosts my strength. So i KNOW that that works. ECA i can feel working, and i notice changes quickly. Fish oil definitely works, without fish oil i start to put on fat around 400g carbs per day..with fish oil I do not. I Can feel the melatonin every night when it makes me tired(i dont get tired without it).
If results come or not is not a legit indicator. You don't know if they wouldn't come just the same if your were not using the supps.
You don't know if something is working by "feeling". It's possible that supps make you feel better, stronger, etc. That's one of the tricks of the supp industry. It has absolutely nothing to do with the goal of bodybuilding (more muscle, less fat). The ECA might help you in losing weight just like cardio but if just reducing calories doesn't do the same or an even better job (fat loss vs. muscle loss) can only be determined by experiment.
I think one needs a certain amount of sleep, but if you can't get enough for the purpose of BB without the melatonin is questionable.
If what you are doing right now works for you, I wouldn't change it either. But you will never know for sure if anything can be related to the supps unless you haven't tried without.
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;D
You are kidding, right?
there is literally thousands of studies of herbs/nutrients that have ergogenic effects. increases in testosterone, decreases in estradiol, increases in protein synthesis, anti proteolytic, anti inflammatory, anti cortisol, enhanced glycogen storage etc etc etc...
if you want i could post some scientific research showing these benefits in vivo and vitro, in humans and animals, in cells lines etc... if your talking about specific supplements like no xplode or something, the individual ingredients have research behind them, theory behind them etc..
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there is literally thousands of studies of herbs/nutrients that have ergogenic effects. increases in testosterone, decreases in estradiol, increases in protein synthesis, anti proteolytic, anti inflammatory, anti cortisol, enhanced glycogen storage etc etc etc...
if you want i could post some scientific research showing these benefits in vivo and vitro, in humans and animals, in cells lines etc... if your talking about specific supplements like no xplode or something, the individual ingredients have research behind them, theory behind them etc..
Yes there are studies and there are theories on some supps. But theories oppose each other and studies only take into account certain aspects. Theoretical "nutrition science" has proven time and time again (at least in its current state) being useless for determinig if a bodybuilding method works or not. The only legit study is an emperical study with a representative number of people. What must be examined in such a study is not protein synthesis, insulin release, glycogen storage, etc. (which are only a few small and still poorly understood aspects) but the only thing that matters to budybuilding: ratio of muscle gain vs. fat gain on a bulk resp. fat loss vs. muscle loss on a cut. This study must be repeated with and without the supplement while keeping all other parameters constant.
Can you name me the supplements (meaning single ingredients like: creatine, nitric oxides, etc.) which have undergone such testing? I can only say that I have done these tests on myself. Maybe I'm different but not one single supplement had any noticable effect on my bodybuilding goals.
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Yes there are studies and there are theories on some supps. But theories oppose each other and studies only take into account certain aspects. Theoretical "nutrition science" has proven time and time again (at least in its current state) being useless for determinig if a bodybuilding method works or not. The only legit study is an emperical study with a representative number of people. What must be examined in such a study is not protein synthesis, insulin release, glycogen storage, etc. (which are only a few small and still poorly understood aspects) but the only thing that matters to budybuilding: ratio of muscle gain vs. fat gain on a bulk resp. fat loss vs. muscle loss on a cut. This study must be repeated with and without the supplement while keeping all other parameters constant.
Can you name me the supplements (meaning single ingredients like: creatine, nitric oxides, etc.) which have undergone such testing? I can only say that I have done these tests on myself. Maybe I'm different but not one single supplement had any noticable effect on my bodybuilding goals.
if you mean double blind crossover RCTs or meta analysis only the most stringent testing methodology we have then yes there are a multitude of studies. you should visit mind and muscle.com and post there, its a great place to learn and a place i frequent.
empirical evidence has been conducted on numerous substance, supplements have undergone the same scrutiny as drugs wrt methodology. A well designed study elucidates wether a supplement is worth while. Just look at creatine, or even caffeine and its effects on testosterone and glycogen storage. Or leucine on protein synthesis and decreases in proteolysis in athletes.
lots of supplements have effects, they are not druglike but certainly work. Take a strong stimulant like AMP 1 OR 2, if you dont feel jacked and stimulated off that then i dont know what to tell you. Ephedrine has beta agonis properties demonstrated in vivo and vitro, similar to clen, albuterol etc.. and thermogenic, appetite supppresant effects etc... clearly your statment is to absolute.
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if you mean double blind crossover RCTs or meta analysis only the most stringent testing methodology we have then yes there are a multitude of studies. you should visit mind and muscle.com and post there, its a great place to learn and a place i frequent.
I only accept the kind of emperical study I have layed out (focusing only on the purpose of bodybuilding as described), which is the one I did on myself and which has proven time and time again that supplements do absolutely nothing, at least not for me.
empirical evidence has been conducted on numerous substance, supplements have undergone the same scrutiny as drugs wrt methodology. A well designed study elucidates wether a supplement is worth while. Just look at creatine, or even caffeine and its effects on testosterone and glycogen storage. Or leucine on protein synthesis and decreases in proteolysis in athletes.
The examples you have mentioned all fall into the category of examining a few, still poorly understood scientifc aspects. With the current state of nutrition science this method must be dismissed as explained.
lots of supplements have effects, they are not druglike but certainly work. Take a strong stimulant like AMP 1 OR 2, if you dont feel jacked and stimulated off that then i dont know what to tell you. Ephedrine has beta agonis properties demonstrated in vivo and vitro, similar to clen, albuterol etc.. and thermogenic, appetite supppresant effects etc... clearly your statment is to absolute.
Feeling "jacked or stimulated" must also be dismissed as an indicator, it has absolutely nothing to do with the purpose of bodybuilding. I don't deny the effects of ECA. In my experience however, just like cardio, the same or even better results (again in bodybuilding terms, meaning ratio of fat loss to muscle loss at a certain rate of weight loss) can be achieved with reduction of calories.
I can't say anything about clen and albuterol, though. Those are prescription drugs and should not be considered supplements IMO.
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I only accept the kind of emperical study I have layed out (focusing only on the purpose of bodybuilding as described), which is the one I did on myself and which has proven time and time again that supplements do absolutely nothing, at least not for me.
The examples you have mentioned all fall into the category of examining a few, still poorly understood scientifc aspects. With the current state of nutrition science this method must be dismissed as explained.
Feeling "jacked or stimulated" must also be dismissed as an indicator, it has absolutely nothing to do with the purpose of bodybuilding. I don't deny the effects of ECA. In my experience however, just like cardio, the same or even better results (again in bodybuilding terms, meaning ratio of fat loss to muscle loss at a certain rate of weight loss) can be achieved with reduction of calories.
I can't say anything about clen and albuterol, though. Those are prescription drugs and should not be considered supplements IMO.
"I only accept the kind of emperical study I have layed out (focusing only on the purpose of bodybuilding as described), which is the one I did on myself and which has proven time and time again that supplements do absolutely nothing, at least not for me."
ok thats fine, but science disagrees with you. The double blind crossover rct is the gold standard of methodology, with cochrane reviews being highly respected. It exceeds your definition of evidence. If you want to know how well the study was designed or how the measures did, learn statistics. Look at the alpha level, the power, post hoc analysis, the tool used, anova, ancova etc.... all this has to be examined. I would think it ignorant to beleive you have devised another method of detecting truth then the scientific community at large.
"The examples you have mentioned all fall into the category of examining a few, still poorly understood scientifc aspects. With the current state of nutrition science this method must be dismissed as explained."
poorly understood? beta agonism, the adrenergic system, protein synthesis etc.. are understood quite well, if you are not well versed in the subject that is fine, but many people are.
"Feeling "jacked or stimulated" must also be dismissed as an indicator, it has absolutely nothing to do with the purpose of bodybuilding. I don't deny the effects of ECA. In my experience however, just like cardio, the same or even better results (again in bodybuilding terms, meaning ratio of fat loss to muscle loss at a certain rate of weight loss) can be achieved with reduction of calories."
by jacked i meant stimulated and it does have something to do with bodybuilding. Sympathomimetics are known to increase strength via nor-adrenalin/adrenalin hence the stimulation from ephedrine has this property resulting in muscle gain over time. Also, beta agonsim is throughly established to have lipolytic effects, and ephedrine has been proven time and time again to result in non selective beta agonism. Both strength and fat loss are directly related to bodybuilding. Sure cardio causes fat loss, so does caloric restriction(in generalities) that does not mean that supplements wont help or are unescessary since cardios mechanism of action is different from ephedrines. You also have PPAR agonists like sesamin, things that increase fat oxidation like TTA, all applicable. I could go on with examples but surely your stance has no merit and its easily dismissed.
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Here's what I take for supps currently. Some are bbing related, most are health related, and all have some overlap:
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ok thats fine, but science disagrees with you. The double blind crossover rct is the gold standard of methodology, with cochrane reviews being highly respected. It exceeds your definition of evidence. If you want to know how well the study was designed or how the measures did, learn statistics. Look at the alpha level, the power, post hoc analysis, the tool used, anova, ancova etc.... all this has to be examined. I would think it ignorant to beleive you have devised another method of detecting truth then the scientific community at large.
Yes of course, double blind crossover would be much better than my method. That's why I asked you for what supplement ingredients it has been performed, but: measuring the only thing that matters to bodybuilding: enhancement in the ratio of fat loss vs. muscle loss resp. muscle gain vs. fat gain for a certain rate of weight change. I would be really interested in a list of studies provided for supplements like ECA, NO, Creatine, certain combinations of aminos, etc. The only supp I think it has been performed on seriously is Creatine.
poorly understood? beta agonism, the adrenergic system, protein synthesis etc.. are understood quite well, if you are not well versed in the subject that is fine, but many people are.
What I meant is how they relate to the goal of bodybuilding, which is not necessarily concerned with any of those factors. Again, the goal of bodybuilding is muscle gain and fat loss. Everything else is just theory. And let's be honset, theories in nutrition science change every year.
by jacked i meant stimulated and it does have something to do with bodybuilding. Sympathomimetics are known to increase strength via nor-adrenalin/adrenalin hence the stimulation from ephedrine has this property resulting in muscle gain over time. Also, beta agonsim is throughly established to have lipolytic effects, and ephedrine has been proven time and time again to result in non selective beta agonism. Both strength and fat loss are directly related to bodybuilding. Sure cardio causes fat loss, so does caloric restriction(in generalities) that does not mean that supplements wont help or are unescessary since cardios mechanism of action is different from ephedrines. You also have PPAR agonists like sesamin, things that increase fat oxidation like TTA, all applicable. I could go on with examples but surely your stance has no merit and its easily dismissed.
I agree, it is possible that supps really enhance the ratio of fat loss / muscle loss at a certain rate of weight loss. IMO, it's just not the case with supplements available today. The only thing that counts is emperical evidence. In my case, it does not support the specific theories you mention - at least not in relation to the only thing that matters for bodybuilding, as defined above.
I'm not saying that it is impossible that certain supps work for certain people. But I do think that claims based on certain aspects covered by nutrition science or based on how someone "feels" must be dismissed. As soon as someone at least makes the same experiment as I did, and finds out his supps actually do improve the formula important for bodybuilding, that's fine. However, I have yet to come across one single person who actually did what I did and not came to the same conclusion as I did.
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Here's what I take for supps currently. Some are bbing related, most are health related, and all have some overlap:
Will, if we just focus on bodybuilding,
can you tell me for what basic supp ingredients double blind crossover studies have been seriously performed on a representative number of people, testing the ratio of muscle gain vs. fat gain on a bulk resp. fat loss vs. muscle loss on a cut, both with a certain rate of weight change?
Also you mentioned that you do your own emperical studies using feedback from your clients. What is the result on those basic supp ingredients regarding the mentioned ratio?
I admit that I'm not up-to-date with the latest studies, so I would be interested if there actually are studies opposing my experience.
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I'm sorry , and i mean no disrespect, you seem very intelligent...
but your a lost cause, wave length :D
Your just too stubborn and hard headed. The fact that there are alot of very beneficial supplements on the market today has been prooven already. You cant admit it, or just cant see it.
One other thing... if what someone 'feels' has to be dismissed... then how YOU 'feel' about supplements not working for you when you tried them must be dismissed as well. Supplements do work, but they are not drugs. You have already said your natural, you have said you do things like running, you have said you have a low calorie diet.... supplements are beneficial, but not to the point that you would have been able to notice a difference in your body composition after 6 months time. Not the way you diet + train + natural status. The fact that you "FEEL" that they didn't do anything for you, that must be dismissed. ;)
And 'feeling' stronger definitely does help bodybuilding goals. lifting heavier weights means more muscle stimulation, more glycogen depletion, more pump, more test, more gh, more igf-1, more insulin sensitivity, more lipolysis, more protein synthesis...
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I'm sorry , and i mean no disrespect, you seem very intelligent...
but your a lost cause, wave length :D
Your just too stubborn and hard headed. The fact that there are alot of very beneficial supplements on the market today has been prooven already. You cant admit it, or just cant see it.
Every supplement that's out there is 100% proven, just listen to the ads. I did the only thing possible for me to find out if the claims are true. They aren't. How is that stubborn?
One other thing... if what someone 'feels' has to be dismissed... then how YOU 'feel' about supplements not working for you when you tried them must be dismissed as well. Supplements do work, but they are not drugs. You have already said your natural, you have said you do things like running, you have said you have a low calorie diet.... supplements are beneficial, but not to the point that you would have been able to notice a difference in your body composition after 6 months time. Not the way you diet + train + natural status. The fact that you "FEEL" that they didn't do anything for you, that must be dismissed. ;)
When did I say I do things like running? I don't do any cardio, but that's beside the point.
I already layed out how I did my experiments. They had absolutely nothing to do with feelings. It's very simple:
You measure your weight and LBM (as good as possible, of course) before and after a cut. You do the same for a bulk. The exact formulas are described in this thread: http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=236639.0 (http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=236639.0). No feelings at all.
Regarding my current diet methods: I have tried a lot of different approaches in the past, including classical BB methods. I gradually debunked the myths, this includes training, nutrition, and supplements. You are right however, that I don't know anything about the effectiveness of certain bodybuilding methods when drugs are used.
And 'feeling' stronger definitely does help bodybuilding goals. lifting heavier weights means more muscle stimulation, more glycogen depletion, more pump, more test, more gh, more igf-1, more insulin sensitivity, more lipolysis, more protein synthesis...
Why bother with certain aspect? If what you say is true, it should show up in my experiment. It does not.
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Will, if we just focus on bodybuilding,
can you tell me for what basic supp ingredients double blind crossover studies have been seriously performed on a representative number of people, testing the ratio of muscle gain vs. fat gain on a bulk resp. fat loss vs. muscle loss on a cut, both with a certain rate of weight change?
I will attempt to answer that question if you answer the question I asked before, you did not answer: What is your background for understanding the methodology of research in the biological sciences? My sense is you have very little to none. That does not make you a bad person, just a person who keeps making stats 101 mistakes, and statements that tell me you lack the required background for any real conversation on the issue. BTW, many of the latest studies on supps can be found on my web site, my blog, etc.
I don't tend to get into debates with physicists about the nature of black holes. Why? Because my physics knowledge is limited and so I defer to those who have the background for understanding the physics (such as it's known) behind black holes.
Also you mentioned that you do your own emperical studies using feedback from your clients.
That is not true. Read carefully what I said, specifically regarding comments between the differences between subjective experimentation vs objective research following proper methodology that is able to account for/control all the variables so we have a high degree of confidence X supp has Y effects.
Feedback from clients and users is not objective research. Now, you can gather good impirical evidence for an effect as your focus has been, and that's fine, but don't mistake it for actual objective research.
What is the result on those basic supp ingredients regarding the mentioned ratio?
Depends on the supp and as it's subjective feedback vs true objective research, I take it all with a grain of salt. If the feedback mirrors the research, all the better. Some times it does not, and then you have to balance the strength and quality of that research with the amount and strength of the feedback, which is another issue...
I admit that I'm not up-to-date with the latest studies, so I would be interested if there actually are studies opposing my experience.
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I will attempt to answer that question if you answer the question I asked before, you did not answer: What is your background for understanding the methodology of research in the biological sciences? My sense is you have very little to none. That does not make you a bad person, just a person who keeps making stats 101 mistakes, and statements that tell me you lack the required background for any real conversation on the issue. BTW, many of the latest studies on supps can be found on my web site, my blog, etc.
I don't tend to get into debates with physicists about the nature of black holes. Why? Because my physics knowledge is limited and so I defer to those who have the background for understanding the physics (such as it's known) behind black holes.
I never claimed background in biological sciences. I do have background in science in general. I don't know too much about the nature of black holes either, but I do know the limits of science in general. I know e.g. that physics cannot explain my existence as a human being. Scientific theories are always only a description of the world using certain restricted models of it. Natural science does not explain anything. My point is that what you claim to be a requirement for a level-headed discussion is not needed at all for the purpose in question. If that's your opinion however, you are right, you will only be able to teach me and not have a discussion between equals.
I read a few articles on your site. However, I could not find one that would fit my requirements. That's why I asked.
That is not true. Read carefully what I said, specifically regarding comments between the differences between subjective experimentation vs objective research following proper methodology that is able to account for/control all the variables so we have a high degree of confidence X supp has Y effects.
Feedback from clients and users is not objective research. Now, you can gather good impirical evidence for an effect as your focus has been, and that's fine, but don't mistake it for actual objective research.
Of course, I understand. But if the needed objective studies have not been performed, your experience can at least be an indicator. You told me that what you advise your clients to do is exactly my method. I would just be interested in the results of others using that method.
Depends on the supp and as it's subjective feedback vs true objective research, I take it all with a grain of salt. If the feedback mirrors the research, all the better. Some times it does not, and then you have to balance the strength and quality of that research with the amount and strength of the feedback, which is another issue...
What's important is for what supp ingredients objective studies have been seriously performed as defined in my first question.
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My questions have been answered in a different thread:
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=238394.msg3362010#msg3362010 (http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=238394.msg3362010#msg3362010)
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I'm sorry , and i mean no disrespect, you seem very intelligent...
but your a lost cause, wave length :D
Your just too stubborn and hard headed. The fact that there are alot of very beneficial supplements on the market today has been prooven already. You cant admit it, or just cant see it.
One other thing... if what someone 'feels' has to be dismissed... then how YOU 'feel' about supplements not working for you when you tried them must be dismissed as well. Supplements do work, but they are not drugs. You have already said your natural, you have said you do things like running, you have said you have a low calorie diet.... supplements are beneficial, but not to the point that you would have been able to notice a difference in your body composition after 6 months time. Not the way you diet + train + natural status. The fact that you "FEEL" that they didn't do anything for you, that must be dismissed. ;)
And 'feeling' stronger definitely does help bodybuilding goals. lifting heavier weights means more muscle stimulation, more glycogen depletion, more pump, more test, more gh, more igf-1, more insulin sensitivity, more lipolysis, more protein synthesis...
great post.
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I like Liv 52 for your liver, and colostrum which is wicked as fuck for immunity & growth.
all placebo.
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It rebuilds your thymus (immunity) gland.
that looks like a sale.
post some legit studies, not a commercial, please.
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I can't hold your hand all your life, start cracking the books and do your own research.
lol!
Translation: Sorry, i have no proof at all, because it doesn't exist.
We have had the colostrum discussion for a few times here, as sad as it is, but there is no proof it does anything for you bb wise.
There's tons of stuff that will boost your immune system, no need to buy expensive stuff like colostrum for this.
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It rebuilds your thymus (immunity) gland.
the thymus shrinks in size from childhood onward and becomes less involved with immunity.
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Not more than any other protein as well. And, regarding the 10 bucks, thats what i would pay for one shake with colostrum here in germany.
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Thanks for the idea, but even buying it on ebay will give me high shipping cost and toll. I just checked it again, for fun: 100 CAPS with 600mg colostrum each cost me 70 euros. Thats pretty expensive, dont you think? ;D
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Go to PuritansPridesale.com then, that's the cheapest I've found.
like i said, i live in germany. Shipping of an appropriate amount (=weight) will cost me a lot, PLUS i don't even know if it isn't forbidden to import colostrum from the US.
A lot of dairy products are forbidden to import due to diseases.
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-Multivitamin
-Vitamin C
-Chromium
-Vanadyl
-BCAA
-Creatine
-Fat burner
-COQ10
-Fish oil
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I have never found any supplement that works as good as they claim,no2 with creatine gave me great pumps and thats about it,i do use the ephedrine during spring and summer,but the price is gettting a little high.I am sick of useless sups.I f I could get the real stuff I would do it in a second because my trainnning time is very limited and I am old now and the old body just does not recover the way it use too.
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my supps
- Whey-Isolate
- BCAA/EAA´S
- Creatine
- Beta-Alanine
- Zink
- Mg
- Pre-Workout-Formula (NO-Shotgun, Labrada,...other)
- Vita-Mineral-Trace-Elements A-Z
- Vit. C
- Joint-support (Glukosamine-Chrond.-MSM)
- Omega III
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well here's my top
- Multi-Vitamin (I like NOW Adam, it seems to have a good amount of most of vitamins and minerals)
- Protein (Whey and Casein) (I suggest optimum nutrition because they generally have a blend of EAA & BCAA in each scoop along with Glutamine)
- EAA & BCAA
- EFA
- Creatine Ethyl Ester (as opposed to monohydrate because it causes weight gain)
- Joint Support (Glucosamine)
- Antioxidants (milk thistle, glutathione, vitamin C)
Don't think you need anything else.
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the real top 10 for bodybuilding
1. good multi
2. at least 1 gram of protein per body pound
3. good source of carbs wit low sugar( carb slam, vitargo cgl, volu grow, cyto carb...)
4. anti oxidants, great frm gnc n ther multi
5. at least 10 grams of glutamine
6. aminos
7. nitric oxide isnt mandatory but wil give a great pump n a kick n ur ass(best= xl evol, black powder, juggernaut)(worst= no plasmacore, nano vapor, no xplode, no shotgun)
8. recovery product( mass recovery, dark matter, or 221 recovery)
9. fish oils
10. if u dnt consume enough calories weight gainer( muscle juice, iso mass, procomplex gainer)
Just wondering why you named plasmacore as a worst supplement? Not trying to go against you, I havent tried but was thinking about tit. Al reviews say it is awesome
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Here's mine:
1. Multivitamin
2. Protein (usually whey poweder)
3. Creatine
These are the only three I really use on a regular basis.
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as of the last few months
protien powder: i drink a few a day
quercetin: 1000mg a day
vitamin D3: 4000iu a day
yohimbine HCL: 2.5-5.0 mg a day
B12 complex: 1ML a week
vitamin c: a lot
bench
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i also drink 2 pro biotic drinks a day-strawberry flavored.
bench
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as of the last few months
protien powder: i drink a few a day
quercetin: 1000mg a day
vitamin D3: 4000iu a day
yohimbine HCL: 2.5-5.0 mg a day
B12 complex: 1ML a week
vitamin c: a lot
bench
why the quercetin? allergies? mood?
anything in particular?
if its asthma/allergies you could add a couple things to the mix.
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i take fish oil, and sometimes a multi vitamin.
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My top 10
Multi
Fish oil
Protein
Xtend
Creatine
Neogenix Supremecy stack if you want a test booster...
Ok not ten but that's all I take
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In my supplement cabinet I have:
whey protein
chromium
multi vit
BCAA
fish oil
coQ10
liver support
NAC
creatine
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In my supplement cabinet I have:
whey protein
chromium
multi vit
BCAA
fish oil
coQ10
liver support
NAC
creatine
not bad at all, im really liking cq1o for a number of reasons.
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as of the last few months
protien powder: i drink a few a day
quercetin: 1000mg a day-stopped taking, this stuff reeks havoc on my allergies
vitamin D3: 4000iu a day-down to 1000iu a day
yohimbine HCL: 2.5-5.0 mg a day
B12 complex: 1ML a week...ran out, so i havent taken any in awhile
vitamin c: a lot...changed to ester-c
bench
revised
bench
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1. Whey Protein
2. Creatine
3. Multi
4. Fish oil
5. Fiber supplement
6. Vit C
7. B-Complex
8. digestive enzymes
9. Joint Supplement
10.Glutamine
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not bad at all, im really liking cq1o for a number of reasons.
cq10 is awesome!!
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I've never used or learned anything about it.
What are its functions?
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I've never used or learned anything about it.
What are its functions?
Its an antioxidant, and all very good for heart health!
http://bodybuilding.com/store/coq.html
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Its an antioxidant, and all very good for heart health!
http://bodybuilding.com/store/coq.html
huh...might have to look into that...whats some good brands?
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Think I have a winning combination for myself now.
Omegas
Multi
B Complex
ECA
Whey
Creatine mono
HMB
Joint Support
Been working GREAT for about 8 weeks now. I really like the HMB with creatine.
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huh...might have to look into that...whats some good brands?
NOW, jarrow, AOR
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Think I have a winning combination for myself now.
Omegas
Multi
B Complex
ECA
Whey
Creatine mono
HMB
Joint Support
Been working GREAT for about 8 weeks now. I really like the HMB with creatine.
Sounds really good. Not too educated on the HMB though. Care to shine some light on that supp?
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Sounds really good. Not too educated on the HMB though. Care to shine some light on that supp?
Well you can find plenty of articles and such by googling it, but here is my personal experience (always paired with creatine and juice or gatorade):
-More stamina during workout
-Max lifts are improving
-Less severe DOMS
-Able to train more frequently
These are all things I only notice once the HMB is added. I used the same list without HMB for years and would put something in and take it out to assess its efficacy (glutamine, NO products, even anti-e's). While some seemed to be promising, they definitely didn't hold up like HMB has for me. I first used it in RESULTS from atlarge and that is why I tried out some capsules of it.
I use it on training days only, but may try a solid month soon. It has really helped me while cutting some weight. Usually I become so apathetic about the gym when dieting, but this product keeps me going a bit. Haven't tried a higher dose, twice daily, or even ED, but it still works well enough for me to buy it again. I will have to remove the creatine for a couple weeks to see how much HMB does alone. Its not that they interact, just that I get a little boost from creatine too.
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my again revised routine
whey shake-2-3 a day
Casein shake-1 a day
ester c-1000 mg a day
vitamin D3-4000 iu a day
zyrtec-a few a day
celexa-1-3 a day...all depends
fish oil-3000 mg a day
stimerex-3-4 a day
bench
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my again revised routine
whey shake-2-3 a day
Casein shake-1 a day
ester c-1000 mg a day
vitamin D3-4000 iu a day
zyrtec-a few a day
celexa-1-3 a day...all depends
fish oil-3000 mg a day
stimerex-3-4 a day
bench
celexa doestnt work acutely, i wouldnt be changing the dose like that, probably the source of needing to cha nge the dose.
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celexa doestnt work acutely, i wouldnt be changing the dose like that, probably the source of needing to cha nge the dose.
...celexa doesnt work at all...i am going to have my dr put me back on lexapro...this stuff sucks!!!
bench
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...celexa doesnt work at all...i am going to have my dr put me back on lexapro...this stuff sucks!!!
bench
Is there some sort of lawsuit going on with Lexapro? ??? I dunno - maybe I'm confusing it with something else. Seems there's always some law firm advertising "if you or someone you know was taking xyz..."
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Is there some sort of lawsuit going on with Lexapro? ??? I dunno - maybe I'm confusing it with something else. Seems there's always some law firm advertising "if you or someone you know was taking xyz..."
i wouldnt be suprised....but lexapro is the only thing i have taken that works...
bench
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Is there some sort of lawsuit going on with Lexapro? ??? I dunno - maybe I'm confusing it with something else. Seems there's always some law firm advertising "if you or someone you know was taking xyz..."
oh shit that should read it doesnt work acutely, sris are iffy on the evidence.
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i started taking a 1000mg of acai daily on monday....cause it was on sale and i wanted to see what the hype was about...
bench
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ON 100% Whey Gold Standard
random brand creatine
random carbs
tribulus terrestris extract
some amino acids
and omega 3 fats
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I SPAM
(http://www.sticksite.com/spam/spam.jpg)
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;)
Fixed
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Salmon,alot of salmon,and corned beef,I really don't like to cook.
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Current list includes:
1.) Protein Blend (egg & milk derivatives)
2.) Dessicated Liver Tablets
3.) Digestive Enzymes
4.) B vitamins
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;)
Fixed
:D
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Wondering which mod will win this coin toss...
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Salmon,alot of salmon,and corned beef,I really don't like to cook.
Good. As long as it's wild and not farm raised.
Corned beef is really fatty :-\
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i stopped taking all supplements 4 days ago......i still drink several different kinds of proteins, but that is it...
bench
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protein powder - 50-100g per day
muti vitamins
milk thissle 4-6 tabs a day
grape seed extract
cranberry pills (concentrated)
green tea extract
potassium 99mg 2 tabs at night
garlic tabs
L-arginine 3000mg
DHEA 50 mg 4 weeks on 4 weeks off
fish oil (as much as I can take)
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Pro Complex protein powder once a day
Fish oil - 6g
Animal Pak vitamin pack
Fresh fish from the Viet market(rarely beef/chicken)
6 Eggs and Scottish oats every morning
Lots of fresh fruit spread out throughout the day
Veggies with every meal
2 Gal. of water
1 cup of coffee every morning after breakfast
L-Tryptophan before bed
Never been healthier or leaner(without drugs) and i only workout 3 days a week.
8)
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No.1 supplement for me = whey protein. Can't do without it.
All the rest I can live without although I do use multivitamins, extra vitamin C, zinc, fish oils and magnesium on a fairly regular basis.
I also use NO-Explode pre-workout as (for me personally) the formula helps focus and concentration and helps provide great pumps, but I wouldn't say it necessarily translates to more muscle.
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Personally for me its
1) Protein
2) Multi
3) Fish Oil
4) CLA
5) CoQ10
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Vitamin D - 10,000 IU a day
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Someone else's list:
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I am loving Beyond Tangy Tangerine as a multi vitamin, costly but great stuff.
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Hard to argue with a lot of the previous lists. Here is mine.
1. MRP
2. Multi vitamin -mineral
3. Udo's oil
4. Creatine (MUCH more effective for me when its mixed with dextros or juice)
5. Glutamine
6. Vitamin C
7. Vitamin E
8. ZMA
9. 7-Keto
10. Super Antioxidant Formula
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"FrilliGe", you have violated the rules of this board established by me and my fellow moderators, and approved by Ron, of not spamming this board with advertising. Therefore, your posts are deleted and your posting priviledges in this board are removed until further notice since this violation was done after the anti-spamming rules had been posted.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Hard to argue with a lot of the previous lists. Here is mine.
1. MRP
2. Multi vitamin -mineral
3. Udo's oil
4. Creatine (MUCH more effective for me when its mixed with dextros or juice)
5. Glutamine
6. Vitamin C
7. Vitamin E
8. ZMA
9. 7-Keto
10. Super Antioxidant Formula
hahahah do some research...ZMA was a front to cover/launder $$$ for BALCO ...that shit is worthless hahaha
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multi vitamin: solgar vm 75
pre-workout: metro amped
intra-workout: amino shooter core(champion nutrition)
post workout: pure whey
fat burner: thermo gold/lipo 6 black
zma: muscle nitro pm
mrp: metrx
crappiest product: ... no comment
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My current list of supplements:
Creatine Mono
BCAA’s
HMB
Casein powder
Multi-vitamin
Zinc
Additional B-6 & B-12, and D3
Melatonin
GABA
Digestive multi-enzyme
Acidophilus
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I don't take 10 supplements. :(
Multi
Creatine
Gluc/Chon
Fish Oil
Protein
I feel like I may be missing out here.
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I don't take 10 supplements. :(
Multi
Creatine
Gluc/Chon
Fish Oil
Protein
I feel like I may be missing out here.
ur covered there bro,,,i use creatine then off a bit i look harder without it but it helps,,,multi,whey ,arginine pre and post on training days 6grams.
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I have always stayed with,I guess the basics: Food is a must,but NOT a supplement.So its not mentioned below.I stick with this year round.
-Whey
-Creatine (Cycle On and Off)
-Beef Liver Aminos
-Caffeine
-Fish Oil
-Multi vitamin
-L-Taurine or Beta Alanine (cycle on and off,usually along with creatine)
-Joint Protection
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On workout days:
Whey protein (which I consider stopping)
BCAA drink slowly sipped during workout
1 multivitamin
Omega 3: 9g
Vitamin C: 2g
Vitamin D: 4800ius
Glucosamine/Chondroitin/MSM: 1.5g/1.2g/600mg
Calcium: dependant on dietary intake as you don't need to supplement if you eat/drink more than 1g
I was taking 2g of glutamine for a while to help with recovery but didn't notice much of anything. I stopped taking it rather than up the dose as I couldn't justify the cost.
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hahahah do some research...ZMA was a front to cover/launder $$$ for BALCO ...that shit is worthless hahaha
source?
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source?
The "Gorilla Whisperer."
(http://www.yesnet.yk.ca/schools/wes/webquests_themes/animals/endangered/sofie_webpages/ali/images/mountain-gorilla-of-rwanda.jpg)
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The "Gorilla Whisperer."
(http://www.yesnet.yk.ca/schools/wes/webquests_themes/animals/endangered/sofie_webpages/ali/images/mountain-gorilla-of-rwanda.jpg)
;D
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y174/mdpayette/GorillaFinger.jpg)
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Okay, it will be more than 10, but the title got you to look ;D
Let's keep this thread clean ~ no BS products.
Here's a start ~ with basic /general dosages
I don't consider a Multi part of the top 10 since it basically goes without saying...
Creatine and Ephedra fall into what I would call a "conditional use" category
Glutamine 15g/day when cutting.
Multi
Bs
C 500mg/3x day or more
Calcium Women 1000-1500 split doses
Chromium 200mcg
D 1000iu
E ~400~800IU mixed tocopherols
Fish Oil 3-6 grams
Glucosamine 1500mg
Potassium 99mcg
Zinc 30mg
What the heck happened to the formatting ^ ???
I'd consider good BCAA peptides to be in this, for the fact many don't have quality protein that is micronized like hydro for absorbtion. If you have hydro then bcaas are not as neccessary but still on a perfect diet/training and supplementation regiment bcaas will yield results.
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Hard to argue with a lot of the previous lists. Here is mine.
1. MRP
2. Multi vitamin -mineral
3. Udo's oil
4. Creatine (MUCH more effective for me when its mixed with dextros or juice)
5. Glutamine
6. Vitamin C
7. Vitamin E
8. ZMA
9. 7-Keto
10. Super Antioxidant Formula
Take Humanofort and you don`t have to take 7-Keto or DHEA.
Humanofort helps bring balance to the hypothalamus-pituitary-adrenal axis. This assists the entire endocrine system in achieving homeostasis and efficient operation. Next, the endocrine system will secretes hormones at optimum levels.
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Multi
C,
E
Zinc/calcium
Protein powder.
fish oil
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I would be wary of extra calcium. One being a man doing weight bearing exercises combined with a good diet you shouldn't need it. Excess calcium, especially if it's a shitty form can accelerate arterial calcification.
just saying 240, just saying.
Things I've been liking lately are phosphotidylserine, nice cortisol control, dopaminergic that synergizes with fish oil nicely. I also really like beta alanine, I can notice a strength increase and generally feel more energized which makes sense since it increases myocyte carnosine levels better then carnosine.
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Protein and fat burner supplements you need to have for weight loss and fat burning. Weight loss supplements also provide you with sufficient vitamins, minerals, and other essential nutrients, which are required by the body to retain an overall good health while the fat burning process.
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Food.
Good, clean, non-processed, organic, wholesome food.
Save your money.
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Supplements i like:
ripped freak
green tea.
amino freak
raspberry ketone
Creatine