Author Topic: Are you *sure* military recruiting is doing fine?  (Read 6993 times)

ribonucleic

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Are you *sure* military recruiting is doing fine?
« on: February 13, 2007, 07:45:56 PM »
Military grants more waivers to recruits



By LOLITA C. BALDOR, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - The Army and Marine Corps are letting in more recruits with criminal records, including some with felony convictions, reflecting the increased pressure of five years of war and its mounting casualties.

According to data compiled by the Defense Department, the number of Army and Marine recruits needing waivers for felonies and serious misdemeanors, including minor drug offenses, has grown since 2003. The Army granted more than double the number of waivers for felonies and misdemeanors in 2006 than it did in 2003. Some recruits may get more than one waiver.

The military routinely grants waivers to admit recruits who have criminal records, medical problems or low aptitude scores that would otherwise disqualify them from service. Overall the majority are moral waivers, which include some felonies, misdemeanors, and traffic and drug offenses.

The number of felony waivers granted by the Army grew from 411 in 2003 to 901 in 2006, according to the
Pentagon, or about one in 10 of the moral waivers approved that year. Other misdemeanors, which could be petty theft, writing a bad check or some assaults, jumped from about 2,700 to more than 6,000 in 2006. The minor crimes represented more than three-quarters of the moral waivers granted by the Army in 2006, up from more than half in 2003.

Army and Defense Department officials defended the waiver program as a way to admit young people who may have made a mistake early in life but have overcome past behavior. And they said about two-thirds of the waivers granted by the Marines are for drug use, because they — unlike the other services — require a waiver if someone has been convicted once for marijuana use.

Lawmakers and other observers say they are concerned that the struggle to fill the military ranks in this time of war has forced the services to lower their moral standards.

"The data is crystal clear. Our armed forces are under incredible strain and the only way that they can fill their recruiting quotas is by lowering their standards," said Rep. Marty Meehan (news, bio, voting record), D-Mass., who has been working to get additional data from the Pentagon. "By lowering standards, we are endangering the rest of our armed forces and sending the wrong message to potential recruits across the country."

Army spokesman Paul Boyce said Tuesday he is concerned because the Pentagon data differs from Army numbers. But overall, he said, "anything that is considered a risk or a serious infraction of the law is given the highest level of review."

"Our goal is to make certain that we recruit quality young men and women who can keep America defended against its enemies," Boyce said.

The data was obtained through a federal information request and released by the California-based Michael D. Palm Center, a think tank that studies military issues.

"The fact that the military has allowed more than 100,000 people with such troubled pasts to join its ranks over the past three years illustrates the problem we're having meeting our military needs in this time of war," said Aaron Belkin, director of the center.

Belkin said a new study commissioned by the center also concludes that the military does not have any programs that help convicted felons adjust to military life.

In recent years, as the
Iraq and
Afghanistan wars have dragged on, the military has also relaxed some standards in order to meet recruitment demands. The Army, for example, increased its age limit for recruits from 35 to 42, and is accepting more people whose scores on a standardized aptitude test are at the lower end of the acceptable range.

In its report, the Pentagon said, "The waiver process recognizes that some young people have made mistakes, have overcome their past behavior, and have clearly demonstrated the potential for being productive, law-abiding citizens and members of the military."

According to the Pentagon, nearly a quarter of new military recruits needed some type of waiver in 2006, up from 20 percent in 2003. Roughly 30,000 moral waivers were approved each year between 2003 and 2006.

The military in its report divides moral waivers into six categories: felonies, serious and minor non-traffic offenses, serious and minor traffic offenses and drug offenses. Because many states have different crimes categorized as a felony or misdemeanor, the groupings are more general.

About one in five Army recruits needed a waiver to enlist in 2006, up from 12.7 percent in 2003. In addition, the report showed that the Army granted substantially fewer waivers for drug use and serious traffic violations last year than in 2003.

More than half of the Marine recruits needed a waiver in 2006, a bit higher than in 2003, and largely due to their more strict drug requirements. Felony waivers made up about 2 percent of the Marine waivers, while other lesser crimes made up about 25 percent, both up slightly from 2003.

About 18 percent of Navy recruits required a waiver, up only slightly from 2003. Two-thirds of the waivers granted by the Navy were for misdemeanor-type crimes and about 5 percent were for felonies.

Just 8 percent of Air Force recruits had waivers, down a bit from 2003. Nearly all of the waivers were for the misdemeanor-type crimes.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070214/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/military_recruits_waivers

Cap

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Re: Are you *sure* military recruiting is doing fine?
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2007, 07:47:45 PM »
They tried to talk me out of finishing school and the contracts are up big time.  More signing bonuses and guaranteed contracts to ensure enlistments.
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Camel Jockey

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Re: Are you *sure* military recruiting is doing fine?
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2007, 07:54:05 PM »
So they are now letting criminals into the military? Looks like they're desperate...  :-X

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Re: Are you *sure* military recruiting is doing fine?
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2007, 07:55:32 PM »
i don't think anyone here has recently said that recruiting isn't in trouble, it's kinda common knowledge.

nobody is that dumb.

ieffinhatecardio

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Re: Are you *sure* military recruiting is doing fine?
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2007, 08:02:47 PM »
i don't think anyone here has recently said that recruiting isn't in trouble, it's kinda common knowledge.

nobody is that dumb.

Are you sure about that? I thought I read a couple of posts where people stated there were no issues with getting new recruits? I don't remember exactly though so I'm not stating it as fact.

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Re: Are you *sure* military recruiting is doing fine?
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2007, 08:20:03 PM »
Are you sure about that? I thought I read a couple of posts where people stated there were no issues with getting new recruits? I don't remember exactly though so I'm not stating it as fact.

No, I would bet $5 internet dollars on it.

No one here at getbig has been so blind to say that.  it's common knowledge that they're dropping standards to get new people.  No one here is that incredibly stupid and unattractive.

ribonucleic

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Re: Are you *sure* military recruiting is doing fine?
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2007, 08:25:01 PM »
No one here at getbig has been so blind to say that.... No one here is that incredibly stupid and unattractive.

"enlistment and retention is great in the military" - militarymuscle69

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=113451.msg1784644#msg1784644

ieffinhatecardio

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Re: Are you *sure* military recruiting is doing fine?
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2007, 08:25:11 PM »
No, I would bet $5 internet dollars on it.

No one here at getbig has been so blind to say that.  it's common knowledge that they're dropping standards to get new people.  No one here is that incredibly stupid and unattractive.

 ;)

It took me a minute to figure that one out.

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Re: Are you *sure* military recruiting is doing fine?
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2007, 08:27:19 PM »
;)

It took me a minute to figure that one out.

it's the classic getbig T-ball pitch.  ribo smelled it and smacked it over the fence. 

military muscle will log on tomorrow and annouce this "Associated Press" is nothing but a liberal rag.

ribonucleic

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Re: Are you *sure* military recruiting is doing fine?
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2007, 08:34:44 PM »
it's the classic getbig T-ball pitch.  ribo smelled it and smacked it over the fence. 

military muscle will log on tomorrow and annouce this "Associated Press" is nothing but a liberal rag.

I hate being predictable.  :)

Look, for all I know, MM's anecdotal experience is just what he says. And since I have none of my own, I wasn't going to argue with him.

But this story seems to speak for itself. They're not going to let in more felons if they have enough non-felons to fill the boots.

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Re: Are you *sure* military recruiting is doing fine?
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2007, 08:40:13 PM »
perhaps they feel the felonious element will provide US forces with more streed cred. 

Or in the words of Castor Troy... "When all else fails... Fresh tactics!"



I"m sure militarymuscle will clarify that for us.

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Re: Are you *sure* military recruiting is doing fine?
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2007, 08:42:12 PM »
it's the classic getbig T-ball pitch.  ribo smelled it and smacked it over the fence. 

military muscle will log on tomorrow and annouce this "Associated Press" is nothing but a liberal rag.

Nah, it'll be the "YOU HATE OUR MILITARY CARD"  ;)

ieffinhatecardio

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Re: Are you *sure* military recruiting is doing fine?
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2007, 08:49:38 PM »
Nah, it'll be the "YOU HATE OUR MILITARY CARD"  ;)

Didn't someone get called a commie? LOL

That's some funny schit dredging up the commie quip.  ;D

Camel Jockey

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Re: Are you *sure* military recruiting is doing fine?
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2007, 08:55:53 PM »
Didn't someone get called a commie? LOL

That's some funny schit dredging up the commie quip.  ;D

Guess someone decided to bust out the McCarthyism, now that's old school.  ;)

ieffinhatecardio

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Re: Are you *sure* military recruiting is doing fine?
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2007, 09:00:04 PM »
Guess someone decided to bust out the McCarthyism, now that's old school.  ;)

Rumor has it the "commie" was so shamed by his outing that he deleted his account and is now ghost writing for other Getbig members.  ;D 

Dos Equis

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Re: Are you *sure* military recruiting is doing fine?
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2007, 10:58:38 PM »
Recruiting down during time of war?  No way.  Must be the first time in U.S. history.   ::)

Tre

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Re: Are you *sure* military recruiting is doing fine?
« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2007, 12:24:36 AM »

There are a lot of servicemembers - both officer and enlisted - that you wouldn't want to have any association with. 

headhuntersix

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Re: Are you *sure* military recruiting is doing fine?
« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2007, 12:27:29 AM »
There isa war on so of course recruiting is going to suffer. I would rather play the "Ribo" is a piece of shit card myself.
L

militarymuscle69

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Re: Are you *sure* military recruiting is doing fine?
« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2007, 05:50:16 AM »
All I will say is this, standards were dropped A LONG TIME before the war. I remember hearing about the lower ASVAB score requirements back in 98-99 time frame. Even when I came in many or the Army and Marines I was training with didn't have high school diplomas. This is nothing new, the military has been a less attractive option for many years and they have tried everything to improve the incentives. My little brother joined in 99 and recieved 30K + to do so. When I reinlisted in 2000 I got a bonus. I couldn't get that today because retention rates are better since the war started. The army is sturggling because people are catching on to their quality of life issues. I am Air Force and stationed at an Army post. It is like 2 different cultures. But we won't take these same kids into the Air Force. Short and Simple...This is not a new issue.
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Re: Are you *sure* military recruiting is doing fine?
« Reply #19 on: February 14, 2007, 05:54:48 AM »
There isa war on so of course recruiting is going to suffer. I would rather play the "Ribo" is a piece of shit card myself.

Yep.  Personal attacks are WAY easier than coming up with relevant data.

Call his mother a whore!  DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ribonucleic

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Re: Are you *sure* military recruiting is doing fine?
« Reply #20 on: February 14, 2007, 07:04:51 AM »
Recruiting down during time of war?  No way.  Must be the first time in U.S. history.   ::)

Why now that you mention it, Bum, this is the first prolonged war we've fought since the draft was ended. So yes, this is a first in US history.  :)

But your rationalization is beyond feeble, of course. After Pearl Harbor, people were lying about their age to get into the service. People seemed to feel that war was worth fighting.

This one... apparently not so much.  :)


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Re: Are you *sure* military recruiting is doing fine?
« Reply #21 on: February 14, 2007, 07:32:58 AM »
Why now that you mention it, Bum, this is the first prolonged war we've fought since the draft was ended. So yes, this is a first in US history.  :)

But your rationalization is beyond feeble, of course. After Pearl Harbor, people were lying about their age to get into the service. People seemed to feel that war was worth fighting.

This one... apparently not so much.  :)



I see.  So there were no speed bums in recruiting during WWI, WWII, the Korean War, the Vietnam War, and Desert Storm?  I'll believe that when I see the numbers. 

And to say people were ever falling over themselves to go die in a war is a stretch.  I don't know if there was a small bump right after Pearl Harbor (maybe, maybe not), but I doubt recruiting increased during WWII. 

militarymuscle69

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Re: Are you *sure* military recruiting is doing fine?
« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2007, 08:56:09 AM »
Why now that you mention it, Bum, this is the first prolonged war we've fought since the draft was ended. So yes, this is a first in US history.  :)

But your rationalization is beyond feeble, of course. After Pearl Harbor, people were lying about their age to get into the service. People seemed to feel that war was worth fighting.

This one... apparently not so much.  :)



Weren't those times great, when people wanted to go to war because they didn't take for granted their "rights." If only Americ was still like that. Instead people want to stay here, abuse their "rights" and never consider fighting themselves for it. Back in WWI, WWII, Korea.... a man like Clinton never would have been voted as pres.
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ieffinhatecardio

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Re: Are you *sure* military recruiting is doing fine?
« Reply #23 on: February 14, 2007, 09:10:34 AM »
Weren't those times great, when people wanted to go to war because they didn't take for granted their "rights." If only Americ was still like that. Instead people want to stay here, abuse their "rights" and never consider fighting themselves for it. Back in WWI, WWII, Korea.... a man like Clinton never would have been voted as pres.

Interesting that you didn't mention our current President when you mentioned Clinton. You must have forgotten that he got out of serving in Vietnam.

militarymuscle69

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Re: Are you *sure* military recruiting is doing fine?
« Reply #24 on: February 14, 2007, 09:14:15 AM »
Interesting that you didn't mention our current President when you mentioned Clinton. You must have forgotten that he got out of serving in Vietnam.

How did he get "out" of it. Not everyone in the military deploys to every war. You know only 45% of the active duty air force has spent time in Afghanistan/Iraq? Clinton left the country
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