Author Topic: Where’s the FBI raid?  (Read 3439 times)

Soul Crusher

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Re: Where’s the FBI raid?
« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2023, 10:12:29 AM »
::)

CNN analyst: Let's face it -- the DoJ probably can't charge Trump now over classified documents (unless they also charge Biden)
Hotair ^ | 01/10/2023 | Ed Morrissey
Posted on 1/10/2023, 12:51:34 PM by SeekAndFind

“Really?” Poppy Harlow exclaimed. Yes, really. Theoretically, the Department of Justice could still charge Donald Trump over his alleged criminal violations in keeping classified documents.

In reality, though, Merrick Garland would have to explain why he’s not charging Joe Biden for the same crimes, as CNN legal analyst John Miller explains. They may not be the same situation, but it’s close enough to make it awkward:

DON LEMON: I said that last night, it puts Merrick Garland in a very odd position. Did they know this was coming? This was November? I said, well, you know, look, I’m just asking here. Maybe Merrick Garland didn’t. Everyone’s wondering why he didn’t act, did he know this was coming?

JOHN MILLER: The White House knows how to get news out fast and they know how to get news out slow. The idea that we went through the contretemps of last week and once that was all clear, you know, they announced this probably, you know, speaks for itself in terms of analysis.

KAITLAN COLLINS: I’m so interested that you said it helps Trump because I was talking to people close to his legal team yesterday and they were saying this is a huge gift to them because they believe, you know, politically speaking, of course, the obstruction is obviously the big part of the Trump story. He resisted for so long, turning them over. But they believe it helps make their argument that it’s pretty easy actually, to innocently and mistakenly perhaps take classified documents. Does that actually hold up in court?

JOHN MILLER: So it doesn’t hold up in logic.

KAITLAN COLLINS: But does it hold up in court?

JOHN MILLER: Let alone court. Sure, it holds up in court as an argument. But, you know, the law is clear on on both. It’s just, you know, the balancing act of you’ve got a special prosecutor, you know, Jack Smith, who’s going to is going to make a recommendation, and then the attorney general is going to have to make a decision. And these developments have put him in a very awkward place in terms of the decision-making.

The two situations aren’t identical, at least at the moment, but they don’t appear to be different enough to matter politically. Miller also notes that there is an obstruction charge that could be brought against Trump, an element that doesn’t appear to be present in this instance, at least not yet. To charge obstruction without an underlying criminal charge on the document retention itself would be even more awkward, however.

Another CNN legal analyst, former federal prosecutor Katie Cherkasky, points out more explicitly the difference on obstruction. However, she also notes that the underlying crimes are too similar to ignore for prosecutors, and perhaps for a court as well:

CHERKASKY: I think in terms again of the obstruction, that is not present in this case. But the mishandling of classified documents — if that is an offense that is being looked at, that happens at the time the documents are removed, potentially, if they’re done so under inappropriate circumstances. So that part of it is more nuanced, and legally I think those analyses are much more similar. …

I think that Merrick Garland is in a difficult position. … Ultimately, I think there’s going to need to be a special counsel appointed to look into whether this is a criminal offense or whether this is something that is prosecutable.

The problem for the crowd — mainly in the media — screeching that Trump’s obstruction makes this different is the precedent set by the DoJ for Hillary Clinton. Her use of an unauthorized home-brew e-mail system resulted in the retention of thousands of classified documents/data for up to six years or more. Clinton’s motive for employing this system for her official e-mails was clearly to obstruct Congressional review of her communications at State. Furthermore, she directed underlings to strip classified markings from documents before transmitting them, which is itself illegal and demonstrative of obstruction. When confronted, Clinton refused to grant access to the e-mail server, and then erased half of the 65,000-plus emails before granting access to the FBI, claiming that they were personal in nature. That also is a demonstratively obstructive act. And yet the DoJ refused to charge or prosecute Clinton, claiming some fig leaf of “intent” that doesn’t exist anywhere in statute and that her behavior completely contradicted anyway.

So Merrick Garland’s decision was already awkward even before this latest development belatedly emerged. Now we have a sitting president who as VP apparently did exactly what Trump is being accused of doing, and without the authority to commit even a pretense of declassification. If Garland presses forward on a prosecution against a Republican candidate while taking a pass on two Democrats for the same crime, it’s going to look very, very political. And after that, it will be Katy-bar-the-door in the next Republican administration for political prosecutions, and that next Republican administration may be a lot closer than Biden and the media think.

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Re: Where’s the FBI raid?
« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2023, 10:18:48 AM »
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Re: Where’s the FBI raid?
« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2023, 10:23:06 AM »

Soul Crusher

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Re: Where’s the FBI raid?
« Reply #29 on: January 10, 2023, 10:24:59 AM »

Soul Crusher

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Re: Where’s the FBI raid?
« Reply #32 on: January 10, 2023, 11:04:39 AM »
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loco

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Re: Where’s the FBI raid?
« Reply #33 on: January 10, 2023, 11:32:29 AM »
GOP requests intel 'damage assessment' of Biden documents

Republicans have just taken control of the House of Representatives and are promising to launch widespread investigations of Biden's administration.

The revelation also may complicate the Justice Department's consideration of whether to bring charges against Trump, who is trying to win back the White House in 2024 and has repeatedly claimed the department's inquiry into of his own conduct amounted to “corruption."

The National Archives did not immediately respond to a request for comment Monday. Spokespeople for Garland and Lausch declined to comment.

Rep. James Comer, the new GOP chairman of the House Oversight Committee, said Monday that the revelation raised questions about the Justice Department’s handling of the Trump probe.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/gop-requests-intelligence-damage-assessment-170711060.html

Wayne Tracker

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Re: Where’s the FBI raid?
« Reply #34 on: January 10, 2023, 11:39:55 AM »
CNN analyst: Let's face it -- the DoJ probably can't charge Trump now over classified documents (unless they also charge Biden)
Hotair ^ | 01/10/2023 | Ed Morrissey
Posted on 1/10/2023, 12:51:34 PM by SeekAndFind

“Really?” Poppy Harlow exclaimed. Yes, really. Theoretically, the Department of Justice could still charge Donald Trump over his alleged criminal violations in keeping classified documents.

In reality, though, Merrick Garland would have to explain why he’s not charging Joe Biden for the same crimes, as CNN legal analyst John Miller explains. They may not be the same situation, but it’s close enough to make it awkward:

DON LEMON: I said that last night, it puts Merrick Garland in a very odd position. Did they know this was coming? This was November? I said, well, you know, look, I’m just asking here. Maybe Merrick Garland didn’t. Everyone’s wondering why he didn’t act, did he know this was coming?

JOHN MILLER: The White House knows how to get news out fast and they know how to get news out slow. The idea that we went through the contretemps of last week and once that was all clear, you know, they announced this probably, you know, speaks for itself in terms of analysis.

KAITLAN COLLINS: I’m so interested that you said it helps Trump because I was talking to people close to his legal team yesterday and they were saying this is a huge gift to them because they believe, you know, politically speaking, of course, the obstruction is obviously the big part of the Trump story. He resisted for so long, turning them over. But they believe it helps make their argument that it’s pretty easy actually, to innocently and mistakenly perhaps take classified documents. Does that actually hold up in court?

JOHN MILLER: So it doesn’t hold up in logic.

KAITLAN COLLINS: But does it hold up in court?

JOHN MILLER: Let alone court. Sure, it holds up in court as an argument. But, you know, the law is clear on on both. It’s just, you know, the balancing act of you’ve got a special prosecutor, you know, Jack Smith, who’s going to is going to make a recommendation, and then the attorney general is going to have to make a decision. And these developments have put him in a very awkward place in terms of the decision-making.

The two situations aren’t identical, at least at the moment, but they don’t appear to be different enough to matter politically. Miller also notes that there is an obstruction charge that could be brought against Trump, an element that doesn’t appear to be present in this instance, at least not yet. To charge obstruction without an underlying criminal charge on the document retention itself would be even more awkward, however.

Another CNN legal analyst, former federal prosecutor Katie Cherkasky, points out more explicitly the difference on obstruction. However, she also notes that the underlying crimes are too similar to ignore for prosecutors, and perhaps for a court as well:

CHERKASKY: I think in terms again of the obstruction, that is not present in this case. But the mishandling of classified documents — if that is an offense that is being looked at, that happens at the time the documents are removed, potentially, if they’re done so under inappropriate circumstances. So that part of it is more nuanced, and legally I think those analyses are much more similar. …

I think that Merrick Garland is in a difficult position. … Ultimately, I think there’s going to need to be a special counsel appointed to look into whether this is a criminal offense or whether this is something that is prosecutable.

The problem for the crowd — mainly in the media — screeching that Trump’s obstruction makes this different is the precedent set by the DoJ for Hillary Clinton. Her use of an unauthorized home-brew e-mail system resulted in the retention of thousands of classified documents/data for up to six years or more. Clinton’s motive for employing this system for her official e-mails was clearly to obstruct Congressional review of her communications at State. Furthermore, she directed underlings to strip classified markings from documents before transmitting them, which is itself illegal and demonstrative of obstruction. When confronted, Clinton refused to grant access to the e-mail server, and then erased half of the 65,000-plus emails before granting access to the FBI, claiming that they were personal in nature. That also is a demonstratively obstructive act. And yet the DoJ refused to charge or prosecute Clinton, claiming some fig leaf of “intent” that doesn’t exist anywhere in statute and that her behavior completely contradicted anyway.

So Merrick Garland’s decision was already awkward even before this latest development belatedly emerged. Now we have a sitting president who as VP apparently did exactly what Trump is being accused of doing, and without the authority to commit even a pretense of declassification. If Garland presses forward on a prosecution against a Republican candidate while taking a pass on two Democrats for the same crime, it’s going to look very, very political. And after that, it will be Katy-bar-the-door in the next Republican administration for political prosecutions, and that next Republican administration may be a lot closer than Biden and the media think.

Don't worry

It won't be a problem charging Trump

The investigation has just started on the Biden docs so we'll see how that works out

So far Bidens attorney's did exactly the right thing (unlike Trumps attorney's)

If Trump attorney's had discovered the docs and notified the National Archives and turned them all over the next day then we wouldn't even be talking about it and Trump would be in no legal jeopardy


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Re: Where’s the FBI raid?
« Reply #35 on: January 10, 2023, 11:47:12 AM »
As it is, they are now demanding the name of the people Trumpy hired to search for these docs.   :D

Soul Crusher

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Re: Where’s the FBI raid?
« Reply #36 on: January 10, 2023, 11:49:20 AM »
Let the liberal excuse factory spin up. 

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Re: Where’s the FBI raid?
« Reply #37 on: January 10, 2023, 11:58:42 AM »
As it is, they are now demanding the name of the people Trumpy hired to search for these docs.   :D

How does Trump, a private citizen, hire someone with a security clearance? Lol

LurkerNoMore

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Re: Where’s the FBI raid?
« Reply #38 on: January 10, 2023, 12:02:45 PM »
How does Trump, a private citizen, hire someone with a security clearance? Lol

Ask him.  "LOL" 

---
Trump lawyers ordered to hand over names of individuals hired to search Trump properties for classified documents.

 A federal judge has asked former President Donald Trump’s attorneys to turn over the names of the individuals hired to search four properties for documents late last year, a source familiar with the order told CNN.

The names were handed over Wednesday night, two sources told CNN.

It’s the latest twist in the Justice Department’s efforts to use the court to enforce a subpoena from May that sought to collect all classified records Trump kept in his possession after leaving the presidency. The New York Times first reported the development.
---

Wayne Tracker

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Re: Where’s the FBI raid?
« Reply #39 on: January 10, 2023, 12:03:12 PM »
Let the liberal excuse factory spin up.

more like right wing desperation

can you show me where Biden or his attorney's obstructed the return of the docs or filed false statements saying they had returned everything

Here are are a couple of pertinent sections of the Espionage Act

You could attempt to make an argument for "gross negligence" for Biden but his docs were in a locked closet in his office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Global Engagement and Trumps docs were scattered throughout his personal residence.

The timeline of Trumps lies and obstruction in relation to the docs has already been laid out in prior posts



Quote
(d) whoever, lawfully or unlawfully having possession of, access to, control over, or being entrusted with any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blue print, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, or note relating to the national defence, will fully communicates or transmits or attempts to communicate or transmit the same and fails to deliver it on demand to the officer or employee of the United States entitled to receive it; or

(e) whoever, being entrusted with or having lawful possession or control of any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blue print, plan, map, model, note, or information, relating to the national defence, through gross negligence permits the same to be removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of his trust, or to be list, stolen, abstracted, or destroyed, shall be punished by a fine of not more than $10,000, or by imprisonment for not more than two years, or both.

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Re: Where’s the FBI raid?
« Reply #40 on: January 10, 2023, 03:23:45 PM »
President Joe Biden’s mishandled classified documents at the University of Pennsylvania’s “think tank” include intelligence materials related to Iran and Ukraine, according to CNN.

Among the documents Biden stashed at the Biden Center for Diplomacy and Global Engagement at the university were at least ten documents with classified markings on them. The classified documents were dated between 2013 and 2016 and reportedly contain classified intelligence inflation about Iran, Ukraine, and the United Kingdom.

Also in the documents were records pertaining to the Biden family business, including Beau Biden’s funeral preparations.

Biden’s stash of sensitive documents at the University of Pennsylvania’s “think tank” raises national security concerns. Anonymous Chinese donations have reportedly been given to a University of Pennsylvania “think tank,” where Biden stored the sensitive documents.

Sensitive documents found in the trove related to Ukraine raise additional concerns. The Biden family has had many business dealings in Ukraine.

“The documents were discovered on November 2, just six days before the midterm elections, but the matter only became public Monday due to news reports,” CNN reports.

In 2017, Hunter Biden was paid $83,000 per month to be on the board of Burisma, a Ukrainian energy company. That same year, Hunter’s salary was cut in half when Joe Biden left the White House as then-Vice President Joe Biden, who visited Ukraine six times in seven years.

Hunter was appointed to the board of Burisma in 2014. He had no prior experience with the energy sector or Ukraine.

In 2015, Joe Biden threatened to withhold $1 billion from Ukraine if the Ukrainian government did not fire the prosecutor who was investigating Burisma.

According to Breitbart News’s senior contributor Peter Schweizer, Hunter earned great sums of money from Ukraine for which he “offered no real work.”

In 2018 and 2020, Schweizer published Secret Empires and Profiles in Corruption. Each book hit #1 on the New York Times bestseller list and exposed how Hunter and his father flew to China aboard Air Force Two in 2013 before Hunter’s firm inked a $1.5 billion deal with a subsidiary of the Chinese government’s Bank of China, which transpired less than two weeks after the trip. Schweizer’s work also uncovered the Biden family’s other vast and lucrative foreign deals and cronyism.

Breitbart Political Editor Emma-Jo Morris’s investigative work at the New York Post regarding the Hunter Biden “laptop from hell” also captured international headlines when she, along with Miranda Devine, revealed that the president was intimately involved in Hunter’s businesses, appearing to even have a ten percent stake in a company the scion formed with officials at the highest levels of the Chinese Communist Party.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2023/01/10/report-joe-bidens-mishandled-classified-documents-include-intel-materials-related-iran-ukraine/

LurkerNoMore

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Re: Where’s the FBI raid?
« Reply #41 on: January 10, 2023, 03:41:10 PM »
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loco

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Re: Where’s the FBI raid?
« Reply #42 on: January 10, 2023, 05:46:44 PM »
It doesn't matter what Biden's excuses are. He knew taking classified documents was wrong, and he did it anyway.  It doesn't matter if it is one document or thousands of documents. It's against the law. That is what we were told about Trump.  It shouldn't be any different now, right?

LurkerNoMore

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Re: Where’s the FBI raid?
« Reply #43 on: January 10, 2023, 07:21:37 PM »
He declassified them with his mind.   :D

Primemuscle

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Re: Where’s the FBI raid?
« Reply #44 on: January 10, 2023, 07:22:35 PM »
.

Why did I know you would be first out of the gate with this issue? Maybe because you are so incredibly predictable.  ;D

Had Biden or his lawyers refused to give up the documents or played games to resist turning over these 10 classified documents, your post might make sense. However, the circumstances are quite the opposite of those in Trump's case. The White House Counsel’s Office notified the National Archives and Records Administration on the same day the documents were found “in a locked closet” and that the agency retrieved them the next morning.

Fair warning, if I were you, I would not jump to conclusions. Not realizing the huge difference between these two situations could end up making you eat your words.

BTW, I am not suggesting it was okay that Biden had these documents, but there is a lot we don't know yet. For example, how did they end up locked in a closet in his office in the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Global Engagement?
Keep in mind that is vastly different than them being  in his private residence, scattered about in various unsecured locations. Mar-a-Largo is a private club open to anyone in the world who is willing to pay the price of belonging. In addition, Trump entertains a variety of folks, including admitted white supremacists and foreign businesspeople.
This is totally like comparing apples and oranges. Their only similarity is they are both fruit.

Incidentally, I hope you are still above water.


A sign sits in water on a flooded 18th Street at Olive Avenue in Huntington Beach as a winter storm brought wind, rain and flooding to Orange County on Thursday morning, January 5, 2023.(Photo by Mark Rightmire, Orange County Register/SCNG)

When I was a kid and lived in Encino, our house was a few blocks from the Sepulveda dam in which the L.A. River ran. The only time there was water in this "river" was during heavy rains.


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Re: Where’s the FBI raid?
« Reply #45 on: January 10, 2023, 07:59:08 PM »
Why did I know you would be first out of the gate with this issue? Maybe because you are so incredibly predictable.  ;D

Had Biden or his lawyers refused to give up the documents or played games to resist turning over these 10 classified documents, your post might make sense. However, the circumstances are quite the opposite of those in Trump's case. The White House Counsel’s Office notified the National Archives and Records Administration on the same day the documents were found “in a locked closet” and that the agency retrieved them the next morning.

Fair warning, if I were you, I would not jump to conclusions. Not realizing the huge difference between these two situations could end up making you eat your words.

BTW, I am not suggesting it was okay that Biden had these documents, but there is a lot we don't know yet. For example, how did they end up locked in a closet in his office in the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Global Engagement?
Keep in mind that is vastly different than them being  in his private residence, scattered about in various unsecured locations. Mar-a-Largo is a private club open to anyone in the world who is willing to pay the price of belonging. In addition, Trump entertains a variety of folks, including admitted white supremacists and foreign businesspeople.
This is totally like comparing apples and oranges. Their only similarity is they are both fruit.

Incidentally, I hope you are still above water.


A sign sits in water on a flooded 18th Street at Olive Avenue in Huntington Beach as a winter storm brought wind, rain and flooding to Orange County on Thursday morning, January 5, 2023.(Photo by Mark Rightmire, Orange County Register/SCNG)

When I was a kid and lived in Encino, our house was a few blocks from the Sepulveda dam in which the L.A. River ran. The only time there was water in this "river" was during heavy rains.

Because without fail, whatever the left accuse Trump of doing you can bet they’re doing the same thing. As for the flooding. At Bolsa Chica (walking distance from my house) water came up onto the parking lot and on to PCH. PCH to Seacliff was close for about 2-3 days. Every year the city comes and puts up sand berms in front of the properties on the sand where we are. Water came up but the berms blocked the tide. We have sand bags at our garage. Usually the first place that get flooded.

Sucks because we’re right in the middle of a remodel and out siding work has been stopped for over a week

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Re: Where’s the FBI raid?
« Reply #46 on: January 10, 2023, 08:46:47 PM »
It doesn't matter what Biden's excuses are. He knew taking classified documents was wrong, and he did it anyway.  It doesn't matter if it is one document or thousands of documents. It's against the law. That is what we were told about Trump.  It shouldn't be any different now, right?

BTW, one document can be one page or hundreds of pages.

loco

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Re: Where’s the FBI raid?
« Reply #47 on: January 11, 2023, 03:37:50 AM »
BTW, one document can be one page or hundreds of pages.

True.

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Re: Where’s the FBI raid?
« Reply #48 on: January 11, 2023, 06:54:12 AM »
What’s more important. The documents or the fact that the CCP funded Biden’s fake “Think Tank” for $54mil? Are they tied together (of course)?

Primemuscle

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Re: Where’s the FBI raid?
« Reply #49 on: January 11, 2023, 03:46:46 PM »
Because without fail, whatever the left accuse Trump of doing you can bet they’re doing the same thing. As for the flooding. At Bolsa Chica (walking distance from my house) water came up onto the parking lot and on to PCH. PCH to Seacliff was close for about 2-3 days. Every year the city comes and puts up sand berms in front of the properties on the sand where we are. Water came up but the berms blocked the tide. We have sand bags at our garage. Usually the first place that get flooded.

Sucks because we’re right in the middle of a remodel and out siding work has been stopped for over a week

This does 'suck'. But from what you say, it is not unexpected. Such are the tradeoffs of living on the beach. Bummer.

I live on a hill at exactly 500 ft above sea level. The top of our street is 800 ft above sea level. When there's a downpour, the worst we get is the street out front looks something like a waterfall. Fortunately, there are good working storm drains nearby in the streets at the corner of our property. If we keep them clear of leaves, they work great. The downside of my location is that because it is such a steep hill and winding street the city closes it whenever there is ice or snow. I imagine that Ice and snow aren't a problem where you live.

No matter where people live, there are pluses and minuses. On a cloudy day like today, I wish I lived somewhere where it is sunny most of the time. I miss the Southern California beaches I went hung out at as a kid in the summer. The pacific ocean up here is icy cold no matter what time of year it is.