arms need help

[thewickedtruth]

the damn tape hasn't moved. I still have one right at 18" and one at 17 and 1/2" and compared to the rest of me, they're twigs. I've found a great formula for everything else and have still yet to peg what my arms need. I change the exercises, I use big weight, use 10 or more reps unless I fail out, moved where they are in the workouts, everything. I'm out of ideas.

Should I move them to their own day and try supersetting? they get hit twice a week but each muscle group gets at least 4 days rest before attacked again. When I'm gaining strength but not size, is that indicative of not enough food in my system?

I'm just at a loss...

[smaul]

You say you use big weights but have you tried REALLY big weights, as in 4-6 reps?  Might be what you need, when I get stuck at a plateau I find this helps, especially for biceps.  Are your triceps lagging too?

[natural al]

the damn tape hasn't moved. I still have one right at 18" and one at 17 and 1/2" and compared to the rest of me, they're twigs. I've found a great formula for everything else and have still yet to peg what my arms need. I change the exercises, I use big weight, use 10 or more reps unless I fail out, moved where they are in the workouts, everything. I'm out of ideas.

Should I move them to their own day and try supersetting? they get hit twice a week but each muscle group gets at least 4 days rest before attacked again. When I'm gaining strength but not size, is that indicative of not enough food in my system?

I'm just at a loss...

1-drop em to once a week

2-how many sets?  Arms get alot of supplementary work with other bodyparts like back and chest so you might be overtraining them.

[slaveboy1980]

yes try to put them on their own day and if you usually do heavy dips, heavy close grip bench presses etc..try to change it up and do "extreme" arm isolating exercises. machine dips, reverse one arm tricep pushdowns, one arm cable curls, machine preacher curls etc etc and really focus on contraction

[thewickedtruth]

Yeah I got a pm suggestion do to heavy negatives and static holds for the next few workouts. Depends on what you mean by heavy. I'm using 70lbs for sets of 10 on dumbbell preacher curls and yes, I go all the way down and all the way up. There's no room for halfass in my training. I though maybe I could do them with 90lb or 100lb holds to failure etc. My triceps are horrible. My bi's take up half my overall arm mass but I move big weights with them as well.

My current split is

chest,tri's, shoulders
legs, calves, traps
back ,bi's, shoulders
off
repeat.

I just hate taping them and my before nad after pics all tell the same story...everything else is blowing up save my arms. I just started my first 15 weeker and am hoping this could help at least a little. I'd like 18" legit arms and 19" full blown but this might be alot of ask.

here's my arguments on the other suggestions...I did back and tri's and chest and bi's for the better part of a year. I did less sets say 4-6 each time...I worked them just once a week instead of two, etc. I actually LOST size and strength when I did that. So I'm not really keen on those ideas. Especially when I'm growing on the plan I've got save these fucking twiggy arms. So maybe going super heavy for 4-6 reps in all my bi and tri exercises for awhile might be what I need? I have a bad habit of getting into a case of the "tens"  as in 10 reps for everything. I also do no more than 6 sets on either day depending on how I feel and how wrecked my arms are.

[MidniteRambo]

the damn tape hasn't moved. I still have one right at 18" and one at 17 and 1/2" and compared to the rest of me, they're twigs. I've found a great formula for everything else and have still yet to peg what my arms need. I change the exercises, I use big weight, use 10 or more reps unless I fail out, moved where they are in the workouts, everything. I'm out of ideas.

Should I move them to their own day and try supersetting? they get hit twice a week but each muscle group gets at least 4 days rest before attacked again. When I'm gaining strength but not size, is that indicative of not enough food in my system?

I'm just at a loss...

I am in the exact same boat, same measurements, same lifts everything . . .  When I started training, my arms were a natural plus, now they've been stuck at the same place for a long while.

I begin to wonder if there is a predetermined genetic ceiling, over which you cannot grow (without gear or HGH)?  Negative thinking, I know.  But is it possible?

[thewickedtruth]

I am in the exact same boat, same measurements, same lifts everything . . .  When I started training, my arms were a natural plus, now they've been stuck at the same place for a long while.

I begin to wonder if there is a predetermined genetic ceiling, over which you cannot grow (without gear or HGH)?  Negative thinking, I know.  But is it possible?

sure you can. Moving more weight forces your muscsles to grow and adapt so you'll top out EVENTUALLY but not for years...I'm using gear this go around for a longer stint for that reason. I did test and dbol last time and had good results and helped push me past a plateau I sat at for a very long time. NOW I've surpassed most people I know and haven't been on in for the better part of a year. I'm moving more weight now than ever and surpassed most of my weight goals prior to my injury awhile back. There's always ways around it. I just choose to use to get there. I'll eventually be satisfied with my size because I'm ridiculously strong anyway. Right now I'm pulling 600lbs off the rack for dead's for instance and I'm not even having the juice kick in yet. The rack does take away from it though. That extra 6" off the floor makes a world of difference. I'm close to 400lbs on the bench, etc. so I'm hoping it'll take me higher. I'm strong, just not very large. 6'@238lbs isnt' very big. I'm hoping to LOOK as strong as I am. 

[pumpster]

Consider every variable, experiment with each:

Three workouts a week or twice a week, using low 5-6 set volume with high intensity. High intensity meaning trials of each of the following separately for a while, then in combination: compound supersets, burns, negatives, rest-pause, etc. at different times for a while each, see which works. Vary the reps to 6-9 reps, and try using cables for most exercises. Vary the rest times to 1 minute max., then other times 30-40 seconds max. between sets.

Exercises: try new exercises, stick with the effective ones. Take a break from the same exercises unless they're working.

Consider any increase in protein intake frequency or quality that might help; generally it takes a 10 lb. increase to see a 1" arm increase. 5-6 meals or equivalents daily.

Try shorter rests between workouts: 2-3 days should be enough to be rid of soress.

Try GVT: use one effective exercise only per muscle 8 x 8, max. 1 minute rest between sets. Also try it using 45 second rests. After 4-5 weeks if there's no further progress change exercises.

[thewickedtruth]

Try different combos involving the following variables or others that come to mind:

Three workouts a week or twice a week, using low 5-6 set volume with high intensity. High intensity meaning trials of each of the following separately for a while, then in combination: compound supersets, burns, negatives, rest-pause, etc. at different times for a while each, see which works. Vary the reps to 6-9 reps, and try using cables for most exercises. Vary the rest times to 1 minute max., then other times 30-40 seconds max. between sets.

Consider any increase in protein intake frequency or quality that might help; generally it takes a 10 lb. increase to see a 1" arm increase. 5-6 meals or equivalents daily.

Try shorter rests between workouts: 2-3 days should be enough to be rid of soress.

Try GVT: use one effective exercise only per muscle 8 x 8, max. 1 minute rest between sets. Also try it using 45 second rests. After 4-5 weeks if there's no further progress change exercises.

I think tha'ts the plan I decided to go with. We'll find out. especially in a month wether or not it's working. Even a 1/4 or 1/8" difference is progress. I know a month is slow but it's enough to be noticable. And It should be accelerated since I'm finally on and eating about 4k cals a day, 400 grams of protein, etc.

[pumpster]

I think tha'ts the plan I decided to go with. We'll find out. especially in a month wether or not it's working. Even a 1/4 or 1/8" difference is progress. I know a month is slow but it's enough to be noticable. And It should be accelerated since I'm finally on and eating about 4k cals a day, 400 grams of protein, etc.

As far as the exercises or trying different routines, you'll have to have the patience to hold each variable constant long enough (3-5 weeks for example) to know whether it's working, then go on to the next. Some of the variables can be overlapped. Might take 1-1.5 years or more to cycle through different possibilities.

Use protein shakes between meals.

[wes]

Eat more....an increase in bodyweight gained over time so it`s not composed mostly of fat will add some girth to the arms.

[The Squadfather]

yeah in addition to the eating i remember Palumbo saying something about guys with wide shoulders and just wide structures in general seem to have a problem with their shoulders taking over on the big mass building arm movements like bb curls, close grip benches, lying extensions and preachers and he said that when these guys switch over to all cable isolation movements for arms their arms grew, i remember Cutler saying that he had a lot of trouble building his arms at first because of his wide structure.

[Hedgehog]

IMO, you don't need more than one triceps excersise if you're training serious benchpressing.

Pick one which will give you a very full range of motion, don't worry too much about going heavy, worry more about the elbow.

For biceps, I've lately been inspired by Milos Sarcev's giant set ideas. Doing several excersises with no rest in between seems logical for a muscle that has a large makeup of slow twitch fibers, like the biceps.

It means I'm going with a lower weight than usual, especially towards the end of the giant set.

Doing triceps the Milos way, will make you a worse benchpresser. But for mass building purposes, it may well be something to try.

-Hedge

[El Guapo]

IMO, you don't need more than one triceps excersise if you're training serious benchpressing.

Pick one which will give you a very full range of motion, don't worry too much about going heavy, worry more about the elbow.

For biceps, I've lately been inspired by Milos Sarcev's giant set ideas. Doing several excersises with no rest in between seems logical for a muscle that has a large makeup of slow twitch fibers, like the biceps.

It means I'm going with a lower weight than usual, especially towards the end of the giant set.

Doing triceps the Milos way, will make you a worse benchpresser. But for mass building purposes, it may well be something to try.

-Hedge

Hedge, why do you feel a milos style workout is best for mass building?

[slaveboy1980]

IMO, you don't need more than one triceps excersise if you're training serious benchpressing.

Pick one which will give you a very full range of motion, don't worry too much about going heavy, worry more about the elbow.

For biceps, I've lately been inspired by Milos Sarcev's giant set ideas. Doing several excersises with no rest in between seems logical for a muscle that has a large makeup of slow twitch fibers, like the biceps.

It means I'm going with a lower weight than usual, especially towards the end of the giant set.

Doing triceps the Milos way, will make you a worse benchpresser. But for mass building purposes, it may well be something to try.

-Hedge

 I dont agree, milos style is bs. so is using only one exercise for triceps. self imposed limitation.

[The Squadfather]

I dont agree, milos style is bs. so is using only one exercise for triceps. self imposed limitation.

depends on your goals, like Hedge said if your goal is a bigger bench press it's stupid to do so much damage to your triceps with 10 movements back to back with no rest, your triceps would still be torn down when it came time to bench heavy but if your goal is bb'ing and you don't give a shit about what you bench just chest stimulation then by all means do the Milos giant set method.

[slaveboy1980]

depends on your goals, like Hedge said if your goal is a bigger bench press it's stupid to do so much damage to your triceps with 10 movements back to back with no rest, your triceps would still be torn down when it came time to bench heavy but if your goal is bb'ing and you don't give a shit about what you bench just chest stimulation then by all means do the Milos giant set method.

i was talking about bodybuilding, if your into bodybuilding using more than one tricep exercise will give superior results in general compared to limiting yourself to just one. as for any kind of training "milos" superset/giant set method is shit. (can be used for very short periods of time tho)

[The Squadfather]

i was talking about bodybuilding, if your into bodybuilding using more than one tricep exercise will give superior results in general compared to limiting yourself to just one. as for any kind of training "milos" superset/giant set method is shit. (can be used for very short periods of time tho)

that's what i just said, it depends on your goals, Hedge was just pointing out that 4-6 different tricep movements in 90 percent of people is going to be counterproductive in building a bigger bench press, modern day benching is all about triceps strength, no triceps, no big bench but for bodybuilding obviously 4-6 different movements for 8-10 reps is ideal.

[slaveboy1980]

that's what i just said, it depends on your goals, Hedge was just pointing out that 4-6 different tricep movements in 90 percent of people is going to be counterproductive in building a bigger bench press, modern day benching is all about triceps strength, no triceps, no big bench but for bodybuilding obviously 4-6 different movements for 8-10 reps is ideal.

you forgot the part about milos. milos giant set shit doesnt have enough loading with heavy enough weight, +lactic acid accumulation acts as a bottleneck

[The Squadfather]

you forgot the part about milos. milos giant set shit doesnt have enough loading with heavy enough weight, +lactic acid accumulation acts as a bottleneck

yeah, i don't think there's anything wrong with it on very rare occasions as something different but those guys Milos, Silvio, Luke, etc. are juiced to the gills with all due respect, they'll grow off of anything, but 40 pound tricep extensions and 20 pound db. kickbacks ain't gonna do shit for the normal trainee.

[slaveboy1980]

yeah, i don't think there's anything wrong with it on very rare occasions as something different but those guys Milos, Silvio, Luke, etc. are juiced to the gills with all due respect, they'll grow off of anything, but 40 pound tricep extensions and 20 pound db. kickbacks ain't gonna do shit for the normal trainee.

agreed!

[leonp1981]

I had a similar thing with my shoulders.  I tried high reps / low reps, heavy weight / light weights, compound / isolation, etc., etc., etc.!!!

The one day I thought "f*ck it" and did 2 compound movements for 5 sets each, then a giant set of 6 exercises for 5 sets, plus a few static holds and negatives at the end, totalling 40+ sets (training clean).

Whaddya know, I saw my first major improvements in nearly 3 years.  Try everything, and once you've done that, try everything else.  Use all the routines people have suggested and you'll eventually find the one to take you over that 18" plateau.

[jpm101]

Another system is the oldie but goodie, Running the Rack. If you can get a whole DB rack to yourself, that is. Start with a pair of 10lb DB's for curls ( yeah, I know sissy stuff..right) and do 3 reps. Now jump to a pair of 20's and do 3 reps. Very light stuff at first and no rest at all between sets. From the 20's, jump to 30's, than 40's, etc. Probably  will get to a pair of 60's (or how strong you are, plus or minus) where you might only squeeze out 1 rep. At that point, still without any rest, come back down the rack with a pair of 50's, that 40's, etc. All the way down to the original 10's. The 10's now should feel very much not like a sissy weight. On coming down the rack try for around the original 3 reps, but 1 or 2  will be OK. Take a break of about 3 to 5 minutes and Run the Rack again, the same way. Just to 2 cycles at the most.  Take five or 10 minutes and than Run the Rack with DB overhead tricep extensions. Two cycles, like with the biceps. If you want a take no prisoners type of arm workout, this will do it for you.

Can also consider the GVT (10X10's) system. The same moderate weight and exercise (example...BB curl or lat pull down throughout the whole 10 sets and try for 60 seconds rest between sets.. A very old BB'ing saying is, "More blood, More muscle". This GVT system, targeted for increased arm size, will gorge the arms with an excellent pump. The same way Running the Rack will. You can work the GVT as a SS's if you wish or just the regular way. Doing the triceps first and when completed, than work the biceps.

There is also the One Day Arm program, which has worked for many men in the past and present. Even works well on the calves (and delts). So if you have quarterback calves, you might hold this one day program in mind. Good Luck.

There is the One Day arm system

[thewickedtruth]

I think I'm going to try this tomorrow and see how it works out...

lying tricep barbell extensions for 3 sets of 10 with 135 *first time using a free weight version instead of the machine*

supersetted with closed grip benches for 3 sets of 10

then do cable pressdowns to failure without rest to see if that'll shock the shit out of them.

All this AFTER doing static holds at teh end of benching. What do you think?

[pumpster]

I think I'm going to try this tomorrow and see how it works out...

lying tricep barbell extensions for 3 sets of 10 with 135 *first time using a free weight version instead of the machine*

supersetted with closed grip benches for 3 sets of 10

then do cable pressdowns to failure without rest to see if that'll shock the shit out of them.

All this AFTER doing static holds at teh end of benching. What do you think?

This should be intense. Stick with it for 4-6 weeks and focus on increasing the reps and eventually the weight. Try the following variations:


-Lying extensions: both flat and slight decline, using either a super E-Z curl bar or triceps bar. The bar should be lowered off and below the bench, getting a full stretch. It's ok to cheat slightly at the bottom to get the weight moving.

-Bench: use an E-Z curl bar or triceps bar, and decline if possible. Lower the weight to the chest, other times lower to the top of the chest or neck and compare the effect.

-Pushdowns: try using a v or rope. Try doing 2/3 ROM, avoiding the top part, and other times make it more of a compound by flaring the elbows wide and doing the movement more like a close-grip bench.

-Try supersetting the lying extensions with the flared elbows pushdowns and doing the close-grips either before or after.

-Go to positive failure on each set, and on the last set of each exercise go beyond failure using either rest pause, cheats or partials. The reps and intensity have to go up.

-Later substitute any other compounds that are effective in place of either close-grips or pushdowns while retaining the extensions. For example dip machine, bench dips or close-grip pushups in place or either of the other two compounds.

-Also sometimes try 4 sets of each instead of 3. Try also reps of 8.

-Do the workout at least twice weekly.