Is There Anything God Can't Do?

[MCWAY]

You cannot prove a negative.

So I cannot prove god does NOT exist anymore than you could prove that I am NOT god.


But you can certainly get a good approximation of the likelihood of god existing.

Let's take the Christian god as an example, the probability that such a god exists would be the product of the number of different versions of this god; multiplied by the number of different gods; multiplied by the chance of any god existing at all.

Chance that you picked the right Jesus/Yahweh... 1 in 34,000... there are 34,000 different Christian sects.

Chance that Jesus/Yahweh is the one true god... 1 in 10,000... there have been approx 10,000 different gods.

Chance that any god exists at all... zero... based on availabe evidence.


So, even if there was a god, it's a 1 in 340,000,000 chance that you picked the right one to believe in anyway.


Basically, I believe in your god about as much as you believe in Odin, Horus, Tammuz, Wotan, Setanta, Heracles, Zeus, Poseiden, Attis, Dionysus, Mithras, Gilgamesh, Hades.... etc etc  

You're an atheist with regard to 9,999 of the gods.

I'm an atheist with regard to just one more.

We have more in common than we disagree upon... it's just that you are unwilling to rationally assess that last god, the way you assess the 9,999 others.


The Luke

Still parroting this silliness, Luke?

Your logic (or that of whoever penned this drivel) is flawed for one simple reason: An atheist believes in ABSOLUTELY NO DEITIES.

Saying that someone's an atheist, becauase they don't believe in "9,999" gods is like saying someone's isn't a parent, because they don't have "9,999" kids.

How many children do you need be a parent? ONE!

Atheists believe there is NO god. Therefore, if you believe in JUST ONE, even to the exclusion of the other “9,999”, you are NOT an atheist.

[YngiweRhoads]

Necrosis, why do you believe these study results?  

The great thing about any scientific study is that we're all free to conduct the same study ourselves to verify the results. That's why people believe studies.

[YngiweRhoads]

Atheists believe there is NO god. Therefore, if you believe in JUST ONE, even to the exclusion of the other “9,999”, you are NOT an atheist.

Wrong.

Atheism in its basic form is not a belief: it is the absence of belief. An atheist is not primarily a person who believes that god does not exist; rather, he does not believe in the existence of a god.

Virtually every theistic person on this planet has atheistic intent towards deities of another faith.


It's impossible to debate with individuals who deny reality and logic. Religious faith requires one to suspend their knowledge of reality for a belief in the supernatural. Perhaps http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_thinking should be taught from an early age.

[The Luke]

Atheists believe there is NO god. Therefore, if you believe in JUST ONE, even to the exclusion of the other “9,999”, you are NOT an atheist.

...you are confusing atheist with ANTItheist.


The Luke

[MCWAY]

Wrong.

Atheism in its basic form is not a belief: it is the absence of belief. An atheist is not primarily a person who believes that god does not exist; rather, he does not believe in the existence of a god.

You just said THE EXACT SAME THING. Regardless, your play on words doesn't diminish my point. As long as you believe in the existence of at least ONE deity, you are not an atheist.

If you believe that there's a god, your belief, obviously, is NOT absent.

Virtually every theistic person on this planet has atheistic intent towards deities of another faith.

That doesn't matter. By definition, you have to not believe in ALL of them to be an atheist.

It's impossible to debate with individuals who deny reality and logic. Religious faith requires one to suspend their knowledge of reality for a belief in the supernatural. Perhaps http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_thinking should be taught from an early age.

Nobody denies reality or logic. Atheists only dig critical thinking, when such is used to take stabs at religion and people of faith.

It is the presumption that critical thinking will result in the rejection of faith, that drive atheists to make such claims.

There are atheists who've used such critical thinking to become Christians. And, there are Christians who use such and remain Christians.







[/quote]

[YngiweRhoads]

You just said THE EXACT SAME THING. Regardless, your play on words doesn't diminish my point. As long as you believe in the existence of at least ONE deity, you are not an atheist.

Rubbish. You clearly don't understand the difference in meaning between the two statements.

If you believe that there's a god, your belief, obviously, is NOT absent.

That doesn't matter. By definition, you have to not believe in ALL of them to be an atheist.

If you do not believe that Thor exists you have atheistic intent towards Thor. Fairly simple to comprehend.

Nobody denies reality or logic. Atheists only dig critical thinking, when such is used to take stabs at religion and people of faith.

It is the presumption that critical thinking will result in the rejection of faith, that drive atheists to make such claims.

There are atheists who've used such critical thinking to become Christians. And, there are Christians who use such and remain Christians.

Critical thinking is how to judge for oneself what it true and what is not. Zero evidence for supernatural entities leads you to conclude what? That it is highly unlikely any such entities exist. Any other conclusion denies reality.

[MCWAY]

Rubbish. You clearly don't understand the difference in meaning between the two statements.

That's rubbish. Either you belief there is a God or you don't. If you do, you're not an atheist; if you don't, you are. It's as simple as that.

If you do not believe that Thor exists you have atheistic intent towards Thor. Fairly simple to comprehend.

That makes about as much sense as saying that I have non-parental intent, because of 100 children in a room, I don’t act parental toward the 99 that aren’t mine. Just as I need but one child to be a dad, I need belief in just one God to be a man of faith or NOT to be an atheist.

Critical thinking is how to judge for oneself what it true and what is not. Zero evidence for supernatural entities leads you to conclude what? That it is highly unlikely any such entities exist. Any other conclusion denies reality.

The "Zero evidence" stuff is laughable to say the least. One such man who thought as much is the late Dr. D. James Kennedy.

[YngiweRhoads]

That's rubbish. Either you belief there is a God or you don't. If you do, you're not an atheist; if you don't, you are. It's as simple as that.

That makes about as much sense as saying that I have non-parental intent, because of 100 children in a room, I don’t act parental toward the 99 that aren’t mine. Just as I need but one child to be a dad, I need belief in just one God to be a man of faith or NOT to be an atheist.

The "Zero evidence" stuff is laughable to say the least. One such man who thought as much is the late Dr. D. James Kennedy.

Again, you don't understand statement written. You can't debate the subject if you don't understand the statement.

Secondly. If you believe there is evidence; published and peer reviewed, reproducible evidence supporting a claim for supernatural entities then the burden of proof is on you to support your claim. Every single claim by people attempting to prove a supernatural entity has been refuted and debunked or invalidated.

[tonymctones]

You cannot prove a negative.

So I cannot prove god does NOT exist anymore than you could prove that I am NOT god.


But you can certainly get a good approximation of the likelihood of god existing.

Let's take the Christian god as an example, the probability that such a god exists would be the product of the number of different versions of this god; multiplied by the number of different gods; multiplied by the chance of any god existing at all.

Chance that you picked the right Jesus/Yahweh... 1 in 34,000... there are 34,000 different Christian sects.

Chance that Jesus/Yahweh is the one true god... 1 in 10,000... there have been approx 10,000 different gods.

Chance that any god exists at all... zero... based on availabe evidence.


So, even if there was a god, it's a 1 in 340,000,000 chance that you picked the right one to believe in anyway.


Basically, I believe in your god about as much as you believe in Odin, Horus, Tammuz, Wotan, Setanta, Heracles, Zeus, Poseiden, Attis, Dionysus, Mithras, Gilgamesh, Hades.... etc etc  

You're an atheist with regard to 9,999 of the gods.

I'm an atheist with regard to just one more.

We have more in common than we disagree upon... it's just that you are unwilling to rationally assess that last god, the way you assess the 9,999 others.


The Luke

I dont know for certain that my God is the one true God I believe it to be so just as you believe that no gods exist...

secondly there is evidence that God exists it may not be evidence to you but thats ok many ppl dont buy into your evidence of big foot but that does mean its not evidence to you...

how did you go from 1:10000 to 1:340000000...?

basically what you just said is that you cannot prove that God doesnt exist...so why do you spend so much time trying to convince others that he doesnt?

[YngiweRhoads]

you cannot prove that God doesnt exist

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=323435.0

[tonymctones]

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=323435.0

its an hour and im on a lunch break...basically a theory from what i can tell from your post


again nobody can prove God doesnt exist...so why do you and others spend so much time trying to?

Ill respond later tonight when I get home

[The Luke]

how did you go from 1:10000 to 1:340000000...?

Jesus (sigh) Christ, can't you read...?

I wrote:
"Chance that you picked the right Jesus/Yahweh... 1 in 34,000... there are 34,000 different Christian sects.

Chance that Jesus/Yahweh is the one true god... 1 in 10,000... there have been approx 10,000 different gods.

Chance that any god exists at all... zero... based on available evidence.

So, even if there was a god, it's a 1 in 340,000,000 chance that you picked the right one to believe in anyway."


You have to multiply the odds that you picked the right god, by the odds that you picked the right version of that God.

That's 1:10,000 by 1:34,000 (for the reasons given above) which equals: 1:340,000,000


The Luke

[tonymctones]

Jesus (sigh) Christ, can't you read...?

I wrote:
"Chance that you picked the right Jesus/Yahweh... 1 in 34,000... there are 34,000 different Christian sects.

Chance that Jesus/Yahweh is the one true god... 1 in 10,000... there have been approx 10,000 different gods.

Chance that any god exists at all... zero... based on available evidence.

So, even if there was a god, it's a 1 in 340,000,000 chance that you picked the right one to believe in anyway."


You have to multiply the odds that you picked the right god, by the odds that you picked the right version of that God.

That's 1:10,000 by 1:34,000 (for the reasons given above) which equals: 1:340,000,000


The Luke

hahhahah sorry I was reading and trying to eat at the same time...

please address my other points as far as the evidence goes and why you spend so much time trying to disprove somethign that you yourself know you cant disprove...

[The Luke]

please address my other points as far as the evidence goes and why you spend so much time trying to disprove somethign that you yourself know you cant disprove...

I enjoy listening to the "faithful" trying to rationalise their delusions... it's like listening closed-mouthed to a child who's sure they heard Santa land on the roof last Christmas Eve... except these are adults, using logic and reason attempting to justify or defend a belief that doesn't stand up to the scrutiny of logic or reason. It's hilarious.


Imagine someone buying a box of lightbulbs and declaring them to be unbreakable bulbs... its pretty funny to take a bulb out of the box and drop it, watching it smash on the floor.

But if the buyer of the supposedly unbreakable bulbs still asserts that the bulbs are unbreakable, even if you've dropped and smashed all of them, because the one THEY hold isn't broken... well that's pretty hilarious.

When they refuse to drop their one-and-only truly unbreakabe bulb... well that's pretty hysterically funny and makes the effort of dropping a boxful of bulbs one-by-one totally worth it.


Why won't you drop your bulb, tonymctones? Isnt it the one true unbreakable bulb? What could it hurt?


The Luke

[tonymctones]

I enjoy listening to the "faithful" trying to rationalise their delusions... it's like listening closed-mouthed to a child who's sure they heard Santa land on the roof last Christmas Eve... except these are adults, using logic and reason attempting to justify or defend a belief that doesn't stand up to the scrutiny of logic or reason. It's hilarious.


Imagine someone buying a box of lightbulbs and declaring them to be unbreakable bulbs... its pretty funny to take a bulb out of the box and drop it, watching it smash on the floor.

But if the buyer of the supposedly unbreakable bulbs still asserts that the bulbs are unbreakable, even if you've dropped and smashed all of them, because the one THEY hold isn't broken... well that's pretty hilarious.

When they refuse to drop their one-and-only truly unbreakabe bulb... well that's pretty hysterically funny and makes the effort of dropping a boxful of bulbs one-by-one totally worth it.


Why won't you drop your bulb, tonymctones? Isnt it the one true unbreakable bulb? What could it hurt?


The Luke

LOL whats funny is you place all believers into the same category I am in no way a person who takes a literal view of the bible...but as youve already stated you cannot prove God doesnt exist so in part you cannot prove that your proverbial lightbulb will break...so why do you keep trying?

also LOL do you not see the irony in the words your typing coming from a person who believes and searches for bigfoot?

[The Luke]

LOL whats funny is you place all believers into the same category I am in no way a person who takes a literal view of the bible...but as youve already stated you cannot prove God doesnt exist so in part you cannot prove that your proverbial lightbulb will break...so why do you keep trying?

...you're taking it pretty literally if you believe an angry thundercloud set up residence in a magical gold box telling people who to kill and rape, then reincarnated as a preachey pro-slavery capenter only to rise from the dead and turn back into a thundercloud!

Rather than ask why people like me (seemingly) keep attempting to prove a negative, mayb ask why you keep believing the impossible and uprovable with absolutely no evidence...? Hhmm, maybe...?

I don't believe because a god, any god, is incompatible with the laws of physics.

also LOL do you not see the irony in the words your typing coming from a person who believes and searches for bigfoot?

...yeah I do.

But there's already very good scientific evidence (conclusive, but not yet incontravertible) for the existence of such creatures, and there are people like me who put in the effort to get more evidence.

So, I've dropped my bulb.


The Luke

[tonymctones]

...you're taking it pretty literally if you believe an angry thundercloud set up residence in a magical gold box telling people who to kill and rape, then reincarnated as a preachey pro-slavery capenter only to rise from the dead and turn back into a thundercloud!

Rather than ask why people like me (seemingly) keep attempting to prove a negative, mayb ask why you keep believing the impossible and uprovable with absolutely no evidence...? Hhmm, maybe...?

I don't believe because a god, any god, is incompatible with the laws of physics.


...yeah I do.

But there's already very good scientific evidence (conclusive, but not yet incontravertible) for the existence of such creatures, and there are people like me who put in the effort to get more evidence.

So, I've dropped my bulb.


The Luke

LOL again point of perspective...again point of perspective on evidence as well...alot of things that were thought to be impossible 100, 50, 10, 1 year ago are possible today our understand of the laws of physics have changed tremendously over the last century...you think that in all your wisdom you know what is possible in death? LOL no youre not arrogant at all  

again evidence that is conclusive to you not everyone same as my evidence for God...Ive dropped my bulb as well luke and when I die I will know whether it has broken or not is your bulb still in mid air or has it landed?

[MCWAY]

...you're taking it pretty literally if you believe an angry thundercloud set up residence in a magical gold box telling people who to kill and rape, then reincarnated as a preachey pro-slavery capenter only to rise from the dead and turn back into a thundercloud!

Rather than ask why people like me (seemingly) keep attempting to prove a negative, mayb ask why you keep believing the impossible and uprovable with absolutely no evidence...? Hhmm, maybe...?

I don't believe because a god, any god, is incompatible with the laws of physics.

And who's responsible for those laws of physics? Man certainly didn't make them. He simply coined the phrase for them and learned about what has already existed.

God is incompatible with his own laws of physics? That makes a whole lot of sense.

[The Luke]

And who's responsible for those laws of physics? Man certainly didn't make them. He simply coined the phrase for them and learned about what has already existed.

God is incompatible with his own laws of physics? That makes a whole lot of sense.

...don't you know the laws of physics were created by almighty Atheismo himself.

But don't ask Atheismo about it... he doesn't even believe he is the one true god. In fact Atheismo, all powerful creator of all that is seen and unseen, doesn't even believe he is A god, let alone THE god.

Which is what sets him apart from all the other delusional wanna-be gods, making him unique among gods... hence, logically, the one and only god who is so significantly different than all other gods must be the one true god. Simple, logical progression, proof.

All bow before Atheismo... but not when he's watching, it'll just piss him off.


The Luke

[tonymctones]

...don't you know the laws of physics were created by almighty Atheismo himself.

But don't ask Atheismo about it... he doesn't even believe he is the one true god. In fact Atheismo, all powerful creator of all that is seen and unseen, doesn't even believe he is A god, let alone THE god.

Which is what sets him apart from all the other delusional wanna-be gods, making him unique among gods... hence, logically, the one and only god who is so significantly different than all other gods must be the one true god. Simple, logical progression, proof.

All bow before Atheismo... but not when he's watching, it'll just piss him off.


The Luke

try answering the questions instead of side stepping 

[The Luke]

try answering the questions instead of side stepping 

The question is answered just as well by asserting Atheismo created the laws of physics as it is by asserting some other wanna-be god created them.


Do you want me to explain that the laws of physics do not require a creator...?


The Luke 

[tonymctones]

The question is answered just as well by asserting Atheismo created the laws of physics as it is by asserting some other wanna-be god created them.


Do you want me to explain that the laws of physics do not require a creator...?


The Luke 

rather you admit that you dont know exactly where the laws of physics will lead as they didnt know 1 yr, 10yrs, 50yrs and 100yrs ago...

[The Luke]

rather you admit that you dont know exactly where the laws of physics will lead as they didnt know 1 yr, 10yrs, 50yrs and 100yrs ago...

I'll happily admit that... atheism is having the courage to admit you don't know.

Could you admit that asserting the existence of some explanatory god or creator everytime you don't know or don't understand is just as ridiculous as blaming everything on Atheismo...?


Your god used to bring the rain; and summer; and winter and cause earthqakes and lightning... now he just hides in unanswerable metaphysical quanderies that may have no basis in reality.

Seems he's getting lazier... the more we understand, the less he actualy does.


The Luke

[tonymctones]

I'll happily admit that... atheism is having the courage to admit you don't know.

Could you admit that asserting the existence of some explanatory god or creator everytime you don't know or don't understand is just as ridiculous as blaming everything on Atheismo...?


Your god used to bring the rain; and summer; and winter and cause earthqakes and lightning... now he just hides in unanswerable metaphysical quanderies that may have no basis in reality.

Seems he's getting lazier... the more we understand, the less he actualy does.


The Luke

so is believing in God, if it was a certainty it would be "knowing"  like you already said we have more in common than not 

Again its funny how you categorize all believers into one mold, Ive already admitted I dont know and cant prove same as you dont know and cant prove. So at the end of the day we are where we started no better no worse but tomorrow you will again get up and try to prove something that is as you already know impossible to prove...seems alot like masturbation without the payoff 

[The Luke]

Again its funny how you categorize all believers into one mold, Ive already admitted I dont know and cant prove same as you dont know and cant prove. So at the end of the day we are where we started no better no worse but tomorrow you will again get up and try to prove something that is as you already know impossible to prove...seems alot like masturbation without the payoff 

...as opposed to believing a lie designed to rob an control people?


The Luke