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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: polychronopolous on August 18, 2014, 07:40:28 AM
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Would it help to prevent future backlash such as in the Michael Brown incident?
What concerns would the citizens have if this was a Nationwide policy?
These officers seem to be in favor of it.
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Would it help to prevent future backlash such as in the Michael Brown incident?
What concerns would the citizens have if this was a Nationwide policy?
These officers seem to be in favor of it.
Austin went to cameras in the vehicles years ago. It's recently been updated to digital. It's costly for a department to do it and it's likely many cities can't afford it. I along with the officers I work with are 100% for the cameras. They have proven us right in complaints exponentially more than they've proven us wrong. These days if something isn't recorded the cops are usually automatically doubted as in the current national issue. Had that car had video and audio it would be easy to establish what happened. Though it is my experience 2 people can look at the same video and draw different conclusions, at least it's there for rational people to make an informed decision.
Some of our officers have purchased their own body cameras due to the limitations on the car cameras and they have come into play as well. I support body and car cameras for police.
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I think so. They have vehicle cameras, why not uniform cameras? Keep them accountable. They're a little different than others, tbwyre supposed to be held to a hogher syandard considering thwyre supposed to be public servants and protectors.. I bet the number of incidents would drastically reduce.
Oh, amd instant termination if they cover of disconnect their camera for any reason.
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So why is it some cops donīt like being filmed from members of the Public? works both ways and i have seen more than enough cops beating people filmed from people. not a Cop Hater just asking your opinion.
That's a good question. Just my opinion here but I think some of it is ignorance of the law concerning recording. Some of it is out of anxiety and fear during a situation, not thinking things through. It's the epitome of stupid to tell someone to stop recording. You can direct them to move out of the way if they are interferring, but you can't make them stop recording. I'm sure there are times when an officer knows he is doing something wrong and is not wanting to be recorded, but I don't think that actually comes into play in most cases. I've been recorded a number of times and my only concern is "does this level 2 vest make me look fat?"
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That's a good question. Just my opinion here but I think some of it is ignorance of the law concerning recording. Some of it is out of anxiety and fear during a situation, not thinking things through. It's the epitome of stupid to tell someone to stop recording. You can direct them to move out of the way if they are interferring, but you can't make them stop recording. I'm sure there are times when an officer knows he is doing something wrong and is not wanting to be recorded, but I don't think that actually comes into play in most cases. I've been recorded a number of times and my only concern is "does this level 2 vest make me look fat?"
This made me laugh. Just hit a rear double bi, then do a quad sweep, complete with the leg shake and the hand showing off the striations. Then, in an authoritative voice say, "Sir, I'm going to have to ask you to step back. I'm about to do a most muscular."
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The good thing is that the device resulted in a 60% reduction in use of force by officers. The only negative thing I can think of is that the officer may be reluctant to use force in instances where such force is necessary for fear of the recording and the ramifications thereof. In essence, this may lead to officers freezing during times when use of force is required.
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I love the idea. And yes, I could see in a HUGE drop in getting physical from coppers.
I had a cop pull me over last weekend... licence plate light bulb blew out. "Hello sir, I'm John Smith with the XYZ Police department". super polite. no ticket. even joked around about the gun permit "I hope you don't pull that bazooka out, I'm only packing a 40 caliber here".
RagingBull, as far as a cop freezing up - I think veteran cops would drill the rookies harder on when to act, when to not act. If a cop worries about it a lot, he'll prepare mentally for it and know the law book 1000%. As it is, they wing it most of the time because, well, nobody is going to question them for it.
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absolutely they need to be wearing cameras.
If you want to use cameras to video tape someone running a red light your ass better have one on you to make sure you dont violate my rights.
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absolutely they need to be wearing cameras.
If you want to use cameras to video tape someone running a red light your ass better have one on you to make sure you dont violate my rights.
It just seems like a win/win for The Police and The Citizens.
Agnostic007 made the case of the cost side of it but I just couldn't imagine that the proposal to financially back it wouldn't pass if put forth to the town citizens to vote on.
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It just seems like a win/win for The Police and The Citizens.
Agnostic007 made the case of the cost side of it but I just couldn't imagine that the proposal to financially back it wouldn't pass if put forth to the town citizens to vote on.
hahah trust me I dont see many towns at all not being ok with footing the bill for something like this. If what was posted in the other thread is true about a reduction in abuse claims then I imagine it would save money in the long run.
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Would it help to prevent future backlash such as in the Michael Brown incident?
What concerns would the citizens have if this was a Nationwide policy?
These officers seem to be in favor of it.
Yes. But as with anything else, there must be strict guidelines with officers held PERSONALLY ACCOUNTABLE.
If they need to go into a private residence for non criminal activity - like say telling a family member that someone died in a car accident - or interviewing rape victims in an emergency room, they need to turn the shit off. Get back outside, need to turn the thing back on without a bunch of 'I forgot excuses'.
I think the real change needs to be this whole mentality that just because a cop tells you to do something, you should be expected to obey your master without question. They rely on this mentality in courts where they justify these harsh and excessive uses of force.
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hahah trust me I dont see many towns at all not being ok with footing the bill for something like this. If what was posted in the other thread is true about a reduction in abuse claims then I imagine it would save money in the long run.
Agreed, when you factor in cost to maintain and training.
And there has to be tons of training, cause we all know the second something goes wrong, they'll claim they weren't properly trained. Probably need a yearly 5-day stint in Hawaii to get 'properly' trained, lol. :D
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Yes. But as with anything else, there must be strict guidelines with officers held PERSONALLY ACCOUNTABLE.
If they need to go into a private residence for non criminal activity - like say telling a family member that someone died in a car accident - or interviewing rape victims in an emergency room, they need to turn the shit off. Get back outside, need to turn the thing back on without a bunch of 'I forgot excuses'.
cant do that, unless there is a way to make sure they dont turn them on and off at will then they need to be on all the time. The footage should be held internally unless needed so the public ideally would never see instances like they one you mentioned.
If they can turn them on and off then there will be instances where they forget b/c they are human.
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Wouldn't matter. The conspiracy nuts would accuse the police of doctoring the footage.
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cant do that, unless there is a way to make sure they dont turn them on and off at will then they need to be on all the time. The footage should be held internally unless needed so the public ideally would never see instances like they one you mentioned.
If they can turn them on and off then there will be instances where they forget b/c they are human.
I'd have to think about that one. Maybe with sufficient controls and protections, that may be a good idea. I think I would be worried they would get caught up in a FOIA request or broad subpoena.
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I'd have to think about that one. Maybe with sufficient controls and protections, that may be a good idea. I think I would be worried they would get caught up in a FOIA request or broad subpoena.
I would think there is a way to have the automatically turned on when they report they are on a call or pulled someone over.
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If you guys have never heard of the Hawthorne effect you should look into it. The concept plays into this discussion very well.
The idea is that a group of psychologist wanted to see if different types of lights made workers more or less productive. After trying a number of different lights they noticed that they all seemed to have a positive effect on productivity. They then realized that it wasnt the lights it was the fact that the workers were aware they were being video taped and altered their behavior.
I would think the same type of thing would happen here.
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Wouldn't matter. The conspiracy nuts would accuse the police of doctoring the footage.
Trivial to prevent this from happening. Simply have the device internally generate a SHA-2 or SHA-3 checksum for every keyframe (or more frequently) which includes the data in the frame and the SHA-2 or SHA-3 checkum of the previous frame. Problem solved, since now the authenticity of every key-frame starting from the first frame can be assured and the probability of a successful doctoring can be precisely quantified and would be infinitesimally small.
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Trivial to prevent this from happening. Simply have the device internally generate a SHA-2 or SHA-3 checksum for every keyframe (or more frequently) which includes the data in the frame and the SHA-2 or SHA-3 checkum of the previous frame. Problem solved, since now the authenticity of every key-frame starting from the first frame can be assured and the probability of a successful doctoring can be precisely quantified and would be infinitesimally small.
I was joking but that wouldn't matter at all.
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I was joking but that wouldn't matter at all.
I figured. And I know it wouldn't matter for the insane people. But this sort of technique could convince the rest of us that the police aren't tampering with the video, something which I wouldn't put past them.
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Our in car cameras are set to start when 1. We manually turn them on 2. Impact over 5 mph 3. Driver door opens 4. Speed over 90 mph. They record starting 30 seconds prior to being initiated. I could see the body mics having the same type of auto on. When in car goes on, body cam goes on. I'm not tech geek but I'll bet it can be done.
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Our in car cameras are set to start when 1. We manually turn them on 2. Impact over 5 mph 3. Driver door opens 4. Speed over 90 mph. They record starting 30 seconds prior to being initiated. I could see the body mics having the same type of auto on. When in car goes on, body cam goes on. I'm not tech geek but I'll bet it can be done.
yeah, a russian taxi driver can't hit a curb without it being on youtube. But cops waste people iN USA all the time and there's no video?
I mean, on getbig I saw a goPro titty workout video last night lol. But no brown shooting?
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Would it help to prevent future backlash such as in the Michael Brown incident?
What concerns would the citizens have if this was a Nationwide policy?
These officers seem to be in favor of it.
Wouldn't change anything.....
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I figured. And I know it wouldn't matter for the insane people. But this sort of technique could convince the rest of us that the police aren't tampering with the video, something which I wouldn't put past them.
The footage would just mysteriously get 'lost' or 'damaged'
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The footage would just mysteriously get 'lost' or 'damaged'
put something into place, so that any time a policeman "loses" camera - particularly when there is an incident - he gets 6 months of desk duty.
seriously, the solution would be to get police leadership that aren't police. Too much of "we came up together for 20 years, I can't put these guys in the clink for something shady".
No, they take an oath. Get a cilivian in there running the PD. A nice heartless lawyer who will promote the shit out of the good cops, and prosecute the shit out of the bad eggs. Nobody here can defend bad cops... but we all know they get more breaks than they should.
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put something into place, so that any time a policeman "loses" camera - particularly when there is an incident - he gets 6 months of desk duty.
seriously, the solution would be to get police leadership that aren't police. Too much of "we came up together for 20 years, I can't put these guys in the clink for something shady".
No, they take an oath. Get a cilivian in there running the PD. A nice heartless lawyer who will promote the shit out of the good cops, and prosecute the shit out of the bad eggs. Nobody here can defend bad cops... but we all know they get more breaks than they should.
Wouldn't work. I see civillian comments all the time that are so stupid I wonder how they get dressed in the mornings when it comes to how a police officer shoulda woulda coulda handled X situation. The better solution is to have rules on place on the cameras like we have. There are strict guidelines on when you can turn our cameras off. There is no lost footage because it is uploaded to a server. You couldn't get something erased if you wanted to, once it's recorded, its forever there. Now if an officer is in a critical incident and it is not video taped, then it is looked at as to why not. If its an oversight, I got out to use the bathroom, this guy attacked me from nowhere and I didn't have time to activate my camera ( can't recall this ever happening but let's just say..) then that's one thing. but if the camera should have been on and they forgot to turn it on then it is a suspension. If it appears they purposely turned it off before the event they are fired. Been working pretty well so far.
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Locally, today, there was an incident in south florida. A cop hit a 15 year old kid on a bike this morning. No details yet, kid is on life support. cop car and bike, etc all impounded. MAJOR skid marks in the 45mph zone where it happened.
I'm not sure if the dash cam would catch the speed (they all have them). I don't know what happens if the cop is going 60 or 65 in a 45 and hits a kid. Even if the kid was cutting across the road, it was a wide open road, not a lot of visual obstruction. I dont know if a cop speeding, and kid "jaywalking" on a bike, who gets the blame. I mean, if a drunk driver hits a jaywalker, they charge the drunk, even if the jaywalker was in the wrong spot?
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Locally, today, there was an incident in south florida. A cop hit a 15 year old kid on a bike this morning. No details yet, kid is on life support. cop car and bike, etc all impounded. MAJOR skid marks in the 45mph zone where it happened.
I'm not sure if the dash cam would catch the speed (they all have them). I don't know what happens if the cop is going 60 or 65 in a 45 and hits a kid. Even if the kid was cutting across the road, it was a wide open road, not a lot of visual obstruction. I dont know if a cop speeding, and kid "jaywalking" on a bike, who gets the blame. I mean, if a drunk driver hits a jaywalker, they charge the drunk, even if the jaywalker was in the wrong spot?
I don't know about their system but ours has GPS tracking and the speed would be known. Had a local officer who was looking at his in car computer screen at a stop sign in a residential area. Was distracted and didn't see the motorcycle coming throught the intersection and pulled right out in front of him. Guy was banged up but the cop was clearly at fault. As far as speeding in a 45, our policy says we follow traffic laws unless we are in code 2 or 3, which is lights and or siren so if he was speeding without those that is a problem. I hope the kid pulls out. As far as drunk hitting jaywalker, actually happened here... drunk was charged with the dwi and nothing else because the other person was illegally in the roadway. But again, that could vary by court jurisdiction on getting charged..unlikely there would be a conviction
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The footage would just mysteriously get 'lost' or 'damaged'
There WILL be attempted abuse and abuse, but it would still help to improve things, IMO.
But there are situations not appropriate for recording that will have to be dealt with.
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Yes. But as with anything else, there must be strict guidelines with officers held PERSONALLY ACCOUNTABLE.
If they need to go into a private residence for non criminal activity - like say telling a family member that someone died in a car accident - or interviewing rape victims in an emergency room, they need to turn the shit off. Get back outside, need to turn the thing back on without a bunch of 'I forgot excuses'.
I think the real change needs to be this whole mentality that just because a cop tells you to do something, you should be expected to obey your master without question. They rely on this mentality in courts where they justify these harsh and excessive uses of force.
WHEN DEPARTMENT ISSUED BWDR SYSTEM DEACTIVATION IS AUTHORIZED
Once the BWDR system is activated it shall remain on until the incident has concluded.
(a) For purposes of this section, conclusion of an incident has occurred when:
(a) All arrests have been made and arrestees have been transported; and
(b) All witnesses and victims have been interviewed.
(b) Recording may cease if no further law enforcement action is likely to occur (e.g.,
waiting for a tow truck or a family member to arrive.)
303.2.3 WHEN DEPARTMENT ISSUED BWDR SYSTEM USE IS NOT REQUIRED
Activation of the BWDR system is not required:
(a) During break and lunch periods
(b) When not in service and not on a call
(c) When in service but not on a call.
Cops rarely make death notifications these days. Our department does it via Victim Services civillian and chaplain if done by us at all. So that wouldn't be an issue.
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cool info, thanks. there has been a media blackout on it, but word has slowly leaked. police weren't saying anything. Local media were climbing thru canals to get around police roadblocks.
Cop told resident everything was fine, while the kid was either under his car or launched. I guess that's his job. Either way, very scary.
CAPE CORAL: -
Authorities are investigating an early morning crash on Kismet Parkway in Cape Coral that involved a Lee County Sheriff's Office deputy and a bicyclist.
A 15-year-old was transported to a Tampa hospital.
The investigation blocked traffic for hours between NW 6th Place and NW 7th Place, but all roadways have reopened.
When our crews arrived on scene, the BMX-style bicycle was lodged under the patrol car. A forensics team also removed a backpack from the scene.
Witnesses tell us an ambulance drove someone away at around 6 a.m. We learned that person suffered serious injuries during the crash.
"All she heard was a loud screech and bang, she ran outside to see what happened and she asked the cop if he was OK cause she thought something happened to him. He said he was fine, 10 minutes later a swarm of cops came, shut down the whole street," explained Nicholes Quinones, who rushed outside after hearing the crash.
The names of the people involved have not been released. The investigation is ongoing.
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WHEN DEPARTMENT ISSUED BWDR SYSTEM DEACTIVATION IS AUTHORIZED
Once the BWDR system is activated it shall remain on until the incident has concluded.
(a) For purposes of this section, conclusion of an incident has occurred when:
(a) All arrests have been made and arrestees have been transported; and
(b) All witnesses and victims have been interviewed.
(b) Recording may cease if no further law enforcement action is likely to occur (e.g.,
waiting for a tow truck or a family member to arrive.)
303.2.3 WHEN DEPARTMENT ISSUED BWDR SYSTEM USE IS NOT REQUIRED
Activation of the BWDR system is not required:
(a) During break and lunch periods
(b) When not in service and not on a call
(c) When in service but not on a call.
Cops rarely make death notifications these days. Our department does it via Victim Services civillian and chaplain if done by us at all. So that wouldn't be an issue.
I've seen then show up at my friends sister's death, even though only EMS was called, and the neighbor across the street when they called for her insulin attack, again only EMS.
You can split hairs on my examples however you want, regardless of whether they are notifying, supporting, bored, or whatever - my point remains. There are circumstances where it is probably inappropriate for you all to be recording.
As long as the circumstances are addressed, video is a great idea.
I heard on the news on Friday some city/department that was showing a huge drop in claims against the cops. I'll post if I come across it.
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I heard on the news on Friday some city/department that was showing a huge drop in claims against the cops. I'll post if I come across it.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/14/nypd-body-camera_n_3756828.html
NYPD is about to start using them. Bloomberg is pissed, said it's an invasion of privacy. This mayor, who is okay with limiting soda size, in a town with tens of thousands of cameras everywhere, is worried about privacy? lol
No, Bloomy knows we're gonna see a rash of abuse of civilians rights, some high profile firings, then things will be cleaned up. He doesn't wanna be the face/mayor of the corruption and abuses we'll see with cameras.
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cool info, thanks. there has been a media blackout on it, but word has slowly leaked. police weren't saying anything. Local media were climbing thru canals to get around police roadblocks.
Cop told resident everything was fine, while the kid was either under his car or launched. I guess that's his job. Either way, very scary.
CAPE CORAL: -
Authorities are investigating an early morning crash on Kismet Parkway in Cape Coral that involved a Lee County Sheriff's Office deputy and a bicyclist.
A 15-year-old was transported to a Tampa hospital.
The investigation blocked traffic for hours between NW 6th Place and NW 7th Place, but all roadways have reopened.
When our crews arrived on scene, the BMX-style bicycle was lodged under the patrol car. A forensics team also removed a backpack from the scene.
Witnesses tell us an ambulance drove someone away at around 6 a.m. We learned that person suffered serious injuries during the crash.
"All she heard was a loud screech and bang, she ran outside to see what happened and she asked the cop if he was OK cause she thought something happened to him. He said he was fine, 10 minutes later a swarm of cops came, shut down the whole street," explained Nicholes Quinones, who rushed outside after hearing the crash.
The names of the people involved have not been released. The investigation is ongoing.
Appears the boy has passed away.
:(
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Appears the boy has passed away.
:(
yes. very sad. locally, people are pissed about the cop... still on active duty, no news on investigation, his cell minutes, or dash cam, which they all have up there.
cops speed her constantly, suburb/rural roads, they're always doing 60 in a 45.
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/14/nypd-body-camera_n_3756828.html
NYPD is about to start using them. Bloomberg is pissed, said it's an invasion of privacy. This mayor, who is okay with limiting soda size, in a town with tens of thousands of cameras everywhere, is worried about privacy? lol
No, Bloomy knows we're gonna see a rash of abuse of civilians rights, some high profile firings, then things will be cleaned up. He doesn't wanna be the face/mayor of the corruption and abuses we'll see with cameras.
It will be appealed and probably not go anywhere. The police state is strong in NY.
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yes. very sad. locally, people are pissed about the cop... still on active duty, no news on investigation, his cell minutes, or dash cam, which they all have up there.
cops speed her constantly, suburb/rural roads, they're always doing 60 in a 45.
Fuck yea, they are horrible in Washington/Baltimore/Northern VA. I don't think I've ever seen them below 70 on I-495 except when it's bumper to bumper of course. But, they don't even bother people until the speeder is well over 80. And they constantly have people pulled over - no shortage of civilian speeders to be sure.
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Fuck yea, they are horrible in Washington/Baltimore/Northern VA. I don't think I've ever seen them below 70 on I-495 except when it's bumper to bumper of course. But, they don't even bother people until the speeder is well over 80. And they constantly have people pulled over - no shortage of civilian speeders to be sure.
If any of us were to run a kid over, they'd have our phone in 2 minutes, and in a day, the newspapers would have the story that at 6:02 AM, we were texting our mistress lol.
If any of us were to run a kid over, and there was video footage, it'd be all over the place, with them calling us horrible and careless.
This time, it's just quiet and "oh, we'll let you know".
He was in a heavy Crown vic police cruiser. He left some LONG skid marks. He was fcking flying. This isn't up for debate. When you're going 44 mph, you can stop. When you're going 64, it becomes a lot harder. This cop locked up brakes and still shot the kid thru a yard. He was flying. Comments all over local media, people are really upset on this one.
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If any of us were to run a kid over, they'd have our phone in 2 minutes, and in a day, the newspapers would have the story that at 6:02 AM, we were texting our mistress lol.
If any of us were to run a kid over, and there was video footage, it'd be all over the place, with them calling us horrible and careless.
This time, it's just quiet and "oh, we'll let you know".
He was in a heavy Crown vic police cruiser. He left some LONG skid marks. He was fcking flying. This isn't up for debate. When you're going 44 mph, you can stop. When you're going 64, it becomes a lot harder. This cop locked up brakes and still shot the kid thru a yard. He was flying. Comments all over local media, people are really upset on this one.
Absolutely, in the other thread we've pointed out countless times that when being investigated for a crime, cops should be treated the same as everyone else. They should not receive special treatment.
If anything, they need to be held to a higher standard.
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Absolutely, in the other thread we've pointed out countless times that when being investigated for a crime, cops should be treated the same as everyone else. They should not receive special treatment.
If anything, they need to be held to a higher standard.
Cops are swarming that area looking for speeders. I'm disgusted by it. Cop still on FULL DUTY. At the very least, he's probably a little traumatized for it. At worst, he was goofing off and didn't see kid. Brake skid marks are described as 30 to 40 feet long. Not sure how one does that at 45 mph on a dry morning, if he's paying attention. IMO, it was either speeding and/or distracted driving. Cops are always on these dashboard mounted laptops all day. Eyes always looking down. I know it's part of the job, but wow... skid marks, kid flew thru a yard, and bike was entirely under the cop car afterwards. I don't see 45 mph. We're talking WIDE OPEN streets here. almost rural. Houses every third lot.
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The footage would just mysteriously get 'lost' or 'damaged'
^^^^ THIS
Meet another of St. Louis Missori's finest
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put something into place, so that any time a policeman "loses" camera - particularly when there is an incident - he gets 6 months of desk duty.
seriously, the solution would be to get police leadership that aren't police. Too much of "we came up together for 20 years, I can't put these guys in the clink for something shady".
No, they take an oath. Get a cilivian in there running the PD. A nice heartless lawyer who will promote the shit out of the good cops, and prosecute the shit out of the bad eggs. Nobody here can defend bad cops... but we all know they get more breaks than they should.
The problem with civilian oversight is they usually haven't got the first clue of what it is like to be a cop, and what they have to face day to day. The quickest way to mess something up is to have inexperienced layman in charge of and making policy for professionals. Oversight by cops needs to occur, but that blue wall of silence needs to be torn down... dismantled brick by brick.
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Absolutely, in the other thread we've pointed out countless times that when being investigated for a crime, cops should be treated the same as everyone else. They should not receive special treatment.
If anything, they need to be held to a higher standard.
If anything it would at least help them to understand what it's like to be on the receiving end of police investigations. They shouldn't have a problem with rude, impertinent, or invasive questions,
...not if they've got nothing to hide... right? ;) :P
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If any of us were to run a kid over, they'd have our phone in 2 minutes, and in a day, the newspapers would have the story that at 6:02 AM, we were texting our mistress lol.
If any of us were to run a kid over, and there was video footage, it'd be all over the place, with them calling us horrible and careless.
This time, it's just quiet and "oh, we'll let you know".
He was in a heavy Crown vic police cruiser. He left some LONG skid marks. He was fcking flying. This isn't up for debate. When you're going 44 mph, you can stop. When you're going 64, it becomes a lot harder. This cop locked up brakes and still shot the kid thru a yard. He was flying. Comments all over local media, people are really upset on this one.
I would figure a Crown Vic would have anti lock brakes.