Author Topic: "Things are getting better in Iraq!"  (Read 5149 times)

240 is Back

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"Things are getting better in Iraq!"
« on: November 12, 2007, 05:51:31 PM »
Estimated Insurgency Strength, Nov 2003 - 15,000

Estimated Insurgency Strength, Oct 2006 - 20,000 - 30,000

Estimated Insurgency Strength, June 2007 - 70,000


In any other situation, would you say you're "winning" when your enemy increases his size by almost 500% while you're throwing everythin you have at him for 4 years? 

Hugo Chavez

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Re: "Things are getting better in Iraq!"
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2007, 08:08:40 PM »
Estimated Insurgency Strength, Nov 2003 - 15,000

Estimated Insurgency Strength, Oct 2006 - 20,000 - 30,000

Estimated Insurgency Strength, June 2007 - 70,000


In any other situation, would you say you're "winning" when your enemy increases his size by almost 500% while you're throwing everythin you have at him for 4 years? 
LOL... holy crap!  Where did these estimates come from...  If true, it backs up exactly what I said would happen.  If you want a vibrant insurgency, run around the country grabbing up masses of random young men, take them to a prison for months, humilate them, set them free, repeat...  Recipe for instant and determined insurgency.  Recipe for increased membership in terror organizations...   If I didn't know better, I would say it looks intentional ::)  But of course that would be insane :D

Hugo Chavez

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Re: "Things are getting better in Iraq!"
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2007, 08:12:42 PM »

headhuntersix

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Re: "Things are getting better in Iraq!"
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2007, 07:19:54 AM »
On balance, Iraq at the end of July is showing significant signs of battlefield momentum in favor of U.S./coalition
military forces, but there is nonetheless little good to report on the political front and only modest progress on the
economic side of things...From the same report.

Your cherry picking.......


Some other facts..Civilian deaths   3500 Nov 06 to 1600 in June 07...and thats June..its november now. We could play this game all day and I'm sure u could find other facts from this report to combat what I've said...but AQ is on the run in Iraq. Petreaus is going to talk to Al Sadr and try and have him disband his militia if he becomes a member of the government. We ahev more reconstruction teams operating now then last June. This makes the people happy and start to believe the bullshity we told them when we rolled in, in 2003. I don't defend the war because of Bush or for the Republican party, I defend the war or its aims because unlike a majority of the folks on this board, I'm on the team playing the game and plan to be on it well after this war is over. I don't want a repeat of the late 70's army.
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Colossus_500

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Re: "Things are getting better in Iraq!"
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2007, 10:02:59 AM »
A 'FORGOTTEN' WAR
By RALPH PETERS

November 13, 2007 -- LAST weekend's news coverage of our veterans was welcome, but deceptive. The "mainstream media" honored aging heroes and noted the debt we owe to today's wounded warriors - but deftly avoided in-depth coverage from Iraq. Why? Because things are going annoyingly well.

All those reporters, editors and producers who predicted - longed for - an American defeat have moved on to more pressing strategic issues, such as O.J.'s latest shenanigans.

Oh, if you turned to the inner pages of the "leading" newspapers, you found grudging mention of the fact that roadside-bomb attacks are down by half and indirect-fire attacks by three-quarters while the number of suicide bombings has plummeted.

Far fewer Iraqi civilians are dying at the hands of extremists. U.S. and Coalition casualty rates have fallen dramatically. The situation has changed so unmistakably and so swiftly that we should be reading proud headlines daily.

Where are they? Is it really so painful for all those war-porno journos to accept that our military - and the Iraqis - may have turned the situation around? Shouldn't we read and see and hear a bit of praise for today's soldiers and the progress they're making?

The media's new trick is to concentrate coverage on our wounded, mouthing platitudes while using military amputees as props to suggest that, no matter what happens in Iraq, everything's still a disaster.

God knows, I sympathize with - and respect - those who've sacrificed life or limb in our country's service. I just hate to see them used as political tools.

How many of you really believe that those perfectly coiffed reporters care about our soldiers and their families? Does anyone think those news anchors will invite any Marines in wheelchairs home for Thanksgiving?

Still, for the 100-proof nastiness of the intelligentsia, you have to move to the "entertainment" world. Hollywood declines to make a single movie about any of our Medal of Honor winners in Iraq - but has deluged us with left-wing diatribes, as activist actors and directors parade by with their limp bayonets fixed.

"Stars" who enjoy incredible privileges that our troops will never experience treat us to vicious propaganda - such flicks as "In The Valley Of Elah," "Rendition" and the released-on-Veterans'-Day-weekend (gee, thanks) "Lions For Lambs."

And then there's the forthcoming "Redacted," which wants us to grasp that our psychopathic military's basic skills are the rape and murder of innocent civilians.

Immeasurably self-important, Hollywood tells itself these movies are acts of courage.

In some of the films, the victims - of their own leaders - are our troops. In others, the victims are innocent Muslims falsely linked to terrorism. But the unifying thread is that the only heroes are stay-at-homes who bravely fight for the truth.

A number of critics have noted that the American people refuse to pay an hour's wages to see these films. Last weekend's release, "Lions For Lambs," earned less than $7 million, despite starring Tom Cruise, Robert Redford and Meryl "America's in Peril" Streep. And that was the big-bucks earner so far.

Scriptwriters, directors and vanity-project actors (how many have been to Iraq?) scratch their heads and deplore our apathy. They fail to grasp what's truly happening: We, the citizens and moviegoers, simply reject these films' underlying message.

Because the real message of all of these in-the-toilet flicks isn't just that the war in Iraq or the struggle against Islamist terrorists is bad - it's that America is evil. At best, we're the moral equivalent of our enemies.

You know down in your guts that isn't true. I know it isn't true. But the Reese Witherspoons and Tommy Lee Joneses, the Charlize Therons and Robert Redfords have a clearer perspective from Malibu and Sundance than we do: America not only isn't worth defending; we're a danger to all humanity. Our troops are the semi-literate tools of the powerful.

Well, the names on the marquees come and go, but our troops are always there for us. In good times and bad, those in uniform see us through. And, yes, our troops are defending the right of wealthy fools to make goofball propaganda films insulting them.

Now listen to what a real soldier (no makeup, no script), the assistant division commander of the U.S. Army's 1st Cavalry Division in Baghdad, had to say about the changes on the ground in Iraq during an internal end-of-tour interview: "As we've changed the environment for the Iraqis, the Iraqis are the bigger part of the solution now - and I don't mean the security forces [but] the population."

Brig.-Gen. Vincent Brooks stressed that the citizens have learned that "extremists of any ilk" are the real threat: "They've tasted what happens when those elements are sidelined. They long for the glory days of Baghdad, they really do."

An impressive soldier and a man of conscience, Brooks acknowledged to his staff that the months ahead "will be difficult." Success "will be challenged for indigenous reasons and, frankly, for external reasons, by those who don't want to see Iraq be stable and prosperous."

But the general stressed his belief that "the Iraqi people can do this." That's Hollywood's nightmare. And the "mainstream" media's.

headhuntersix

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Re: "Things are getting better in Iraq!"
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2007, 11:56:55 AM »
I love Ralph..he was here (FT Leavenworth) in August, got him to sign his latest book. Met Brooks in 2004. The Cons are makinga big deal about the Hollywood thing. There have been alot of articles on the public displeasure with anti-war films.
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Colossus_500

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Re: "Things are getting better in Iraq!"
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2007, 05:39:27 AM »
240, numbers like this are more believable to me, since their coming from the military rather than statisticians working for a cause:

Good News

There is good news coming out of Iraq that you may not have heard about. Here is the opening line from a New York Times report last week: “American forces have routed Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia, the Iraqi militant network, from every neighborhood in Baghdad, a top American general said today, allowing American troops involved in the ‘surge’ to depart as planned.” One would think such success stories would be front page news. Unbelievably, the Times buried this report on page A19. What else was in the story? Murders are down 80%, attacks from improvised devices are down 70% and 67,000 Iraqi citizens have volunteered to join the security forces. According to Major General Joseph F. Fil, Jr., “The Iraqi people have just decided that they’ve had it up to here with violence.”

As a result of this success, U.S. troops are coming home. Saturday, American commanders announced that the Third Brigade is leaving Diyala province, reducing the number of U.S. brigades in Iraq to 19. Four more brigades are expected to leave Iraq by the summer. According to the Associated Press, “The total number of U.S. troops will likely go from 167,000 now to 140,000-145,000 by July…”

BayGBM

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Re: "Things are getting better in Iraq!"
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2007, 06:25:37 AM »
>"Things are getting better in Iraq!"

It's four years later.  If you keep saying it, eventually it is goin to be true.  But that doesn't help the kids who died for this unnecessary war.  :'(

Colossus_500

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Re: "Things are getting better in Iraq!"
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2007, 02:12:16 PM »
>"Things are getting better in Iraq!"

It's four years later.  If you keep saying it, eventually it is goin to be true.  But that doesn't help the kids who died for this unnecessary war.  :'(
Only time will tell if this is unnecessary or not.  They told Eisenhower that entering our troops to WWII was unnecessary.   History has been in Eisenhower's favor. 

Decker

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Re: "Things are getting better in Iraq!"
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2007, 02:41:32 PM »
>"Things are getting better in Iraq!"

It's four years later.  If you keep saying it, eventually it is goin to be true.  But that doesn't help the kids who died for this unnecessary war.  :'(
The invasion was not so good for the 70,000-650,000 dead Iraqis either.

That's a whole city wiped off the map under the guise of liberation and preserving our way of life from Al Qaeda. 

Oh well, I got a tax cut and was told to shop to pitch in on the war on terror.  What should I care about 70,000 dead Iraqis killed with my tax (cut) dollars?

Decker

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Re: "Things are getting better in Iraq!"
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2007, 03:04:55 PM »
A 'FORGOTTEN' WAR
By RALPH PETERS

November 13, 2007 -- LAST weekend's news coverage of our veterans was welcome, but deceptive. The "mainstream media" honored aging heroes and noted the debt we owe to today's wounded warriors - but deftly avoided in-depth coverage from Iraq. Why? Because things are going annoyingly well.

All those reporters, editors and producers who predicted - longed for - an American defeat have moved on to more pressing strategic issues, such as O.J.'s latest shenanigans.

Oh, if you turned to the inner pages of the "leading" newspapers, you found grudging mention of the fact that roadside-bomb attacks are down by half and indirect-fire attacks by three-quarters while the number of suicide bombings has plummeted.

Far fewer Iraqi civilians are dying at the hands of extremists. U.S. and Coalition casualty rates have fallen dramatically. The situation has changed so unmistakably and so swiftly that we should be reading proud headlines daily.

Where are they? Is it really so painful for all those war-porno journos to accept that our military - and the Iraqis - may have turned the situation around? Shouldn't we read and see and hear a bit of praise for today's soldiers and the progress they're making?

The media's new trick is to concentrate coverage on our wounded, mouthing platitudes while using military amputees as props to suggest that, no matter what happens in Iraq, everything's still a disaster.

God knows, I sympathize with - and respect - those who've sacrificed life or limb in our country's service. I just hate to see them used as political tools.

How many of you really believe that those perfectly coiffed reporters care about our soldiers and their families? Does anyone think those news anchors will invite any Marines in wheelchairs home for Thanksgiving?

Still, for the 100-proof nastiness of the intelligentsia, you have to move to the "entertainment" world. Hollywood declines to make a single movie about any of our Medal of Honor winners in Iraq - but has deluged us with left-wing diatribes, as activist actors and directors parade by with their limp bayonets fixed.

"Stars" who enjoy incredible privileges that our troops will never experience treat us to vicious propaganda - such flicks as "In The Valley Of Elah," "Rendition" and the released-on-Veterans'-Day-weekend (gee, thanks) "Lions For Lambs."

And then there's the forthcoming "Redacted," which wants us to grasp that our psychopathic military's basic skills are the rape and murder of innocent civilians.

Immeasurably self-important, Hollywood tells itself these movies are acts of courage.

In some of the films, the victims - of their own leaders - are our troops. In others, the victims are innocent Muslims falsely linked to terrorism. But the unifying thread is that the only heroes are stay-at-homes who bravely fight for the truth.

A number of critics have noted that the American people refuse to pay an hour's wages to see these films. Last weekend's release, "Lions For Lambs," earned less than $7 million, despite starring Tom Cruise, Robert Redford and Meryl "America's in Peril" Streep. And that was the big-bucks earner so far.

Scriptwriters, directors and vanity-project actors (how many have been to Iraq?) scratch their heads and deplore our apathy. They fail to grasp what's truly happening: We, the citizens and moviegoers, simply reject these films' underlying message.

Because the real message of all of these in-the-toilet flicks isn't just that the war in Iraq or the struggle against Islamist terrorists is bad - it's that America is evil. At best, we're the moral equivalent of our enemies.

You know down in your guts that isn't true. I know it isn't true. But the Reese Witherspoons and Tommy Lee Joneses, the Charlize Therons and Robert Redfords have a clearer perspective from Malibu and Sundance than we do: America not only isn't worth defending; we're a danger to all humanity. Our troops are the semi-literate tools of the powerful.

Well, the names on the marquees come and go, but our troops are always there for us. In good times and bad, those in uniform see us through. And, yes, our troops are defending the right of wealthy fools to make goofball propaganda films insulting them.

Now listen to what a real soldier (no makeup, no script), the assistant division commander of the U.S. Army's 1st Cavalry Division in Baghdad, had to say about the changes on the ground in Iraq during an internal end-of-tour interview: "As we've changed the environment for the Iraqis, the Iraqis are the bigger part of the solution now - and I don't mean the security forces [but] the population."

Brig.-Gen. Vincent Brooks stressed that the citizens have learned that "extremists of any ilk" are the real threat: "They've tasted what happens when those elements are sidelined. They long for the glory days of Baghdad, they really do."

An impressive soldier and a man of conscience, Brooks acknowledged to his staff that the months ahead "will be difficult." Success "will be challenged for indigenous reasons and, frankly, for external reasons, by those who don't want to see Iraq be stable and prosperous."

But the general stressed his belief that "the Iraqi people can do this." That's Hollywood's nightmare. And the "mainstream" media's.
I'm sorry Colossus but that article is just crap.  The leftist hollywood bogeyman whom coincidentally controls the media is rhetorical garbage.

Great.  A stable Iraq with a 1/5th of the population fleeing the country, 70,000-650,000 dead, their businesses destroyed, their families scattered, their country owned and controlled by foreign interests....yeah, they have the world by the sack.

It never ceases to amaze me how any act, no matter how craven or murderous, can be justified and rationalized along political and ideological lines.

militarymuscle69

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Re: "Things are getting better in Iraq!"
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2007, 06:17:52 PM »
The invasion was not so good for the 70,000-650,000 dead Iraqis either.

That's a whole city wiped off the map under the guise of liberation and preserving our way of life from Al Qaeda. 

Oh well, I got a tax cut and was told to shop to pitch in on the war on terror.  What should I care about 70,000 dead Iraqis killed with my tax (cut) dollars?

you lose credability when you use a range of 580,000
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Livewire

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Re: "Things are getting better in Iraq!"
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2007, 09:51:12 PM »
Nasser called Palumbo an acromegalion

militarymuscle69

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Re: "Things are getting better in Iraq!"
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2007, 05:06:33 AM »
Sick irony there.

you think you can attack my credability? bring it bitch!!
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headhuntersix

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Re: "Things are getting better in Iraq!"
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2007, 06:42:09 AM »
If we never get attacked again..and no Americans die at the hands of AQ, because they were broken in Iraq, I can easily live with a mountain of dead Iraqi's....sorry but thats not my problem at this point. I'm glad they seem to be finally getting it and kicking AQ out of various areas. It will allow us to help them and show the remaining insurgents that we're there to help. The faster the peace, the quicker we can leave.
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Colossus_500

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Re: "Things are getting better in Iraq!"
« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2007, 06:44:37 AM »
I'm sorry Colossus but that article is just crap.  The leftist hollywood bogeyman whom coincidentally controls the media is rhetorical garbage.

Great.  A stable Iraq with a 1/5th of the population fleeing the country, 70,000-650,000 dead, their businesses destroyed, their families scattered, their country owned and controlled by foreign interests....yeah, they have the world by the sack.

It never ceases to amaze me how any act, no matter how craven or murderous, can be justified and rationalized along political and ideological lines.
Fair enough, Deck.  But I'm curious as to what the situation would be like had none of the "unnecessary" war had taken place. What would the state of the Middle East be in right now?  At peace?  Would the hostility we see now from that region be less than what it is now?  I'm of the impression that this hostility is something that has always existed, but newly found to the Western world, specifically towards the U.S.  So, I'm curious as to what your thoughts are on that. 

headhuntersix

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Re: "Things are getting better in Iraq!"
« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2007, 06:56:15 AM »
He does not believ the war was legal so its hard to answer this question. These people will always hate us no matter what.
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militarymuscle69

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Re: "Things are getting better in Iraq!"
« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2007, 09:21:29 AM »
Katie Couric says things are getting better....
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Dos Equis

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Re: "Things are getting better in Iraq!"
« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2007, 09:49:30 AM »
you lose credability when you use a range of 580,000

Yes, that number range is pretty absurd, particularly when you're talking about dead people. 

Dos Equis

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Re: "Things are getting better in Iraq!"
« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2007, 09:50:16 AM »
He does not believ the war was legal so its hard to answer this question. These people will always hate us no matter what.

I agree.

Colossus_500

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Re: "Things are getting better in Iraq!"
« Reply #20 on: November 15, 2007, 10:50:47 AM »
He does not believe the war was legal so its hard to answer this question. These people will always hate us no matter what.

True True True

Decker

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Re: "Things are getting better in Iraq!"
« Reply #21 on: November 16, 2007, 07:02:28 AM »
you lose credability when you use a range of 580,000
If you dispute the 650,000 deaths number from the Johns Hopkins' report, I suggest you attack the report and not my credibility.


militarymuscle69

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Re: "Things are getting better in Iraq!"
« Reply #22 on: November 16, 2007, 07:06:33 AM »
If you dispute the 650,000 deaths number from the Johns Hopkins' report, I suggest you attack the report and not my credibility.



The united nations a last check had it around 80K. If you want to say 650K go ahead but don't say between 70 and 650....not that you have much credability anyhow. Just another well read parrot with no original thoughts.
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Decker

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Re: "Things are getting better in Iraq!"
« Reply #23 on: November 16, 2007, 07:12:59 AM »
Fair enough, Deck.  But I'm curious as to what the situation would be like had none of the "unnecessary" war had taken place. What would the state of the Middle East be in right now?  At peace?  Would the hostility we see now from that region be less than what it is now?  I'm of the impression that this hostility is something that has always existed, but newly found to the Western world, specifically towards the U.S.  So, I'm curious as to what your thoughts are on that. 
My guess would be that Hussein would be in power, the US would not have sustained over 30,000 causalties, we'd have 470 billion back in our treasuries, world-wide terrorist attacks would not have gone up almost 500% and Al Qaeda would have no Iraq poster board for recruitment.

But that's speculation.

Let's face it, the real question is, "Was the Iraq invasion a reasonable response to the attacks of 9/11?"

Legality aside, the answer is definitively "no".  Iraq was not a threat to the US.  Al Qaeda hated Hussein and was not in league with him.  Even if all the accusations of the Bush adiminstration were true--that Iraq had chemical WMDs and, hell, even nuclear WMDs, there was no conceivable threat to the US b/c Iraq could not deliver the payload to the states.

Bush claimed that the impotent tiny country of Iraq was a mortal threat to the US. 

If you can believe that, then you can believe anything b/c that statement is geared towards the paranoid.

Decker

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Re: "Things are getting better in Iraq!"
« Reply #24 on: November 16, 2007, 07:18:52 AM »
The united nations a last check had it around 80K. If you want to say 650K go ahead but don't say between 70 and 650....not that you have much credability anyhow. Just another well read parrot with no original thoughts.
The word is spelled "credibility"...maybe now you get 240's joke.

Again, you attack me instead of the report.  I'll give you a gift.  Here's a starting point: http://www.jhsph.edu/publichealthnews/press_releases/2006/burnham_iraq_2006.html

As many as 654,965 more Iraqis may have died since hostilities began in Iraq in March 2003 than would have been expected under pre-war conditions, according to a survey conducted by researchers at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health and Al Mustansiriya University in Baghdad. http://www.jhu.edu/~gazette/2006/16oct06/16iraq.html

I'll tell you what I fully expect from you: nothing...except for another attack my own "credability" (sic).

Just for the record, when the hell have you ever given creedence to anything from the UN? 

So 80,000 dead is ok with you? 

Tell me why we invaded Iraq.  Was it a reasonable response to the attacks of 9/11?