Author Topic: Proposed Gun Law Changes by Students:  (Read 39190 times)

Conker

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Re: Proposed Gun Law Changes by Students:
« Reply #425 on: April 17, 2018, 03:14:27 PM »

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Proposed Gun Law Changes by Students:
« Reply #426 on: April 17, 2018, 03:17:41 PM »
from the forbes article you linked:


"In 1996, the Congress axed $2.6 million allocated for gun research from the CDC out of its $2.2 billion budget, charging that its studies were being driven by anti-gun prejudice. While that funding was later reinstated, it was re-designated for medical research on traumatic brain injuries.

There was a very good reason for the gun violence research funding ban."
https://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2013/02/12/why-the-centers-for-disease-control-should-not-receive-gun-research-funding/#46961c6b282d

see you fkin retard. even your own cited articles admit the amendment served as a ban on further gun violence studies.

now fk off. you're just embarrassing yourself now.

LMFAO keep digging yourself deeper  ;) Did you bother to read the article? Did you NOT watch this video I posted before?

Follow the bouncing ball stupid

Currently, the federal government’s Centers For Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) is restricted by Congress from using tax money to promote gun control (although not from conducting research into gun-related violence)

Restricted from Congress from using tax money to PROMOTE GUN CONTROL ALTHOUGH NOT FROM CONDUCTING RESEARCH INTO GUN-RELATED VIOLENCE


NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Proposed Gun Law Changes by Students:
« Reply #427 on: April 17, 2018, 03:19:38 PM »


Thanks for playing  ;)
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yet the NRA and co are still blocking public money being used to carry out that needed research....i wonder why?

Currently, the federal government’s Centers For Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) is restricted by Congress from using tax money to promote gun control (although not from conducting research into gun-related violence)




Conker

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Re: Proposed Gun Law Changes by Students:
« Reply #428 on: April 17, 2018, 03:22:06 PM »
why do i want to read any more of your utter garbage?

you said there was no ban and kept calling me a liar. then you post an article that says there was a ban.  ::)

you defeated yourself you cretin.

right i'm off to bed. hopefully tomorrow there will be some more worthy opponents rather than you. you dumb sht.

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Proposed Gun Law Changes by Students:
« Reply #429 on: April 17, 2018, 03:23:42 PM »
why do i want to read any more of your utter garbage?

you said there was no ban and kept calling me a liar. then you post an article that says there was a ban.  ::)

you defeated yourself you cretin.

right i'm off to bed. hopefully tomorrow there will be some more worthy opponents rather than you. you dumb sht.

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yet the NRA and co are still blocking public money being used to carry out that needed research....i wonder why?

Currently, the federal government’s Centers For Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) is restricted by Congress from using tax money to promote gun control (although not from conducting research into gun-related violence)

mazrim

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Re: Proposed Gun Law Changes by Students:
« Reply #430 on: April 17, 2018, 03:30:33 PM »
Already been done.  The findings weren't consistent with the media's narrative, so it they weren't widely reported.

CDC Gun Violence Study's Findings Not What Obama Wanted

'The study, which was farmed out by the CDC to the Institute of Medicine and National Research Council, also revealed that while there were "about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008," the estimated number of defensive uses of guns ranges "from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year."'

https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/cdc-gun-violence-study-goes-against-media-narrative/
Man, Ol' Conk really doesn't care to see anything but what supposedly reaffirms his own prejudice. This was exactly what I meant with my post that he "might want to look up how guns save lives before posting.....". Apparently, he didn't take the advice.

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Proposed Gun Law Changes by Students:
« Reply #431 on: April 17, 2018, 03:51:03 PM »
More bad news Conker  ;D

https://drgo.us/history-of-public-health-gun-control-part-i/

Dr. Kellermann’s article, “Gun Ownership as a Risk Factor for Homicide in the Home,” (New England Journal of Medicine vol. 329, no. 15, October 7, 1993) was supported by two grants from the CDC.  The authors used a case-control method usually used in epidemiology research to investigate a criminology problem.  Their conclusion, summarized as a factoid still quoted by gun control advocates to this day, was that people with a gun in the home are 2.7 times as likely to become homicide victims as people who don’t keep a gun in the home.

Gun control advocates and a sympathetic media cited Kellermann’s article endlessly, providing pseudoscientific justification for politicians looking for any reason to advance gun control.  But the research methodology used by Kellermann and his coauthors was flawed.  Aside from the unusual use of the case-control method more suited to epidemiology studies, the subjects for the study were highly aberrant.  They were selected only from homicide victims in Shelby County, Tennessee; King County, Washington; and Cuyahoga County, Ohio.  As the metropolitan areas including Memphis, Seattle, and Cleveland respectively, they were skewed toward inner city populations with high rates of violent crime.

The authors based their results entirely on people who had been murdered in their homes, a group wildly unrepresentative of gun owners in general.  The authors themselves admit that half of the homicides occurred in connection with a “quarrel or romantic triangle” and 30 % occurred during the commission of drug dealing or another felony such as robbery, rape, or burglary.  They made no attempt to consider the hundreds of thousands of responsible gun owners in the same geographical study areas who, like most gun owners, were not the type of people who commit violent felonies or become homicide victims.

Yet another flaw in this CDC-supported article was the authors’ failure to factor in the uses of guns in scaring off criminals.  Fewer than 1% of all protective uses of firearms result in the death of the attacker.  The article therefore underestimates the life-saving and injury-preventing utility of firearms kept at home.

Further weakening the article’s conclusions was the authors’ failure to show in even one case that the gun kept in the homicide victim’s home was the murder weapon.  Establishing the use of that gun would be crucial to concluding that it was a hazard to the occupants, but whether by accidental omission or deliberate exclusion, the authors failed to show it.


Moontrane

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Re: Proposed Gun Law Changes by Students:
« Reply #433 on: April 17, 2018, 05:53:13 PM »
well that could well be the case. as i said earlier i have no idea how guns used to prevent a crime is quantified. but regardless of how many crimes are prevented, it doesn't change the statistical fact that gun owners and their families die violently more frequently.

here's some more quotes from the study you quote

“By their sheer magnitude, injuries and deaths involving firearms constitute a pressing public health problem."

defensive gun use is " common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed."  "The variation in these numbers remains a controversy in the field,"

"and this is a sufficiently important question that it merits additional, careful exploration."


so your study says that the gun issue is a by it's "sheer magnitude" is a "pressing public health issue"  the numbers are disputed and more research is needed.

yet the NRA and co are still blocking public money being used to carry out that needed research....i wonder why?



Conker, I don’t know if you want a repeal of the 2nd amendment or a ban on certain guns.

Whatever the number of uses of guns for defensive purposes, 1 out of 6 who do report they have, say that but for their gun, they’d be dead.  And gun laws, like speed limits and restraining orders, affect the behavior of law-abiding citizens, not criminals. 

If the number of uses of guns for defensive purposes is 100,000, banning guns results in 16,000 additional murders each year.  If it’s 1,000,000 then 160,000 additional murders occur each year.  And the number of rapes, muggings, burglaries, etc. would also necessarily skyrocket.

Las Vegas

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Re: Proposed Gun Law Changes by Students:
« Reply #434 on: April 17, 2018, 06:04:12 PM »

no,not a new thing just "seems" to be happening more often. if more research was taking place maybe it'd be easier to work out's what changed(?)

The "random shootings" we're referring to, aren't new, but they have increased along with that theme.  Since we know it isn't the invention of guns, however, it could only leave one thing: us.  We've changed.  Some way, some how, we've failed to see to ourselves and our mindset.

First thing that comes to my mind, then, is economy.  If money is the most-agreed upon "ruler" of our society, if money "changes everything", if money's void is seen as the primary obstacle in life worth living: then I must say economy is the first suspect.

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no. they are paid by the public to "police" it would be very difficult to police a heavily armed population without being armed. civilians are not paid to police and in the vast majority of cases i would imagine lack the training to do so.

But you don't disagree that a civilian has every bit the desire to live as does someone wearing a uniform.  So how do you reassure the person it's "worth" it to surrender his/her only peace against criminals with guns?  Your best sales pitch, please, with respect to your stand.

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you have a representative democracy (like most of developed world). so you don't get to vote on every issue, you vote for the party that's policies most represent you. but for very contentious issues where there is very strong public opinion, you could hold a referendum. like in the UK with brexit.

You understand "contentious" is related to what "seems" to be fact, and what "seems" to be fact comes from one source: MSM.  That's the power it holds as our primary source of information.  Since we cannot be everywhere at once, to investigate all things, we must rely on a source.

Tmk, for instance, random shootings have increased.  I believe it to be true from what I've seen beyond MSM.  So, that MSM proceeds to treat the matter as though a brand new invention has come about, called guns, and now we're to focus our attention on that, and only that: should tell us everything we need to know about the source.

Beware the battle you choose, or you'll be fighting yourself.

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the data i quoted showed that those with guns (and those living in high gun areas) die violently, more frequently than non gun owners and people in low gun areas. explain from that how you conclude this must mean that criminals are happening upon only those without arms in those locations.
as you have completely lost me there with your "logic".

You mentioned "areas with high prevalance of legal guns", meaning law-conscious and defense-oriented communities.  Interactions between strangers which might (otherwise) provide offense statistics, are more likely to remain as incidental occurrences.  Not the best place for those who'd hope to successfully offend.

Other statistics (such as suicides, accidents and the others you mention) may appear higher against statistics of criminal offenses, if it's as you say.

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i would just tell them the facts (as i've said several times) .anecdotally guns are great for protection. in reality the statistics show that gun owners are more at risk of harm. and that fact does not change even if you personally have used a gun 10 times successfully in self defence.

But the person who's done that ten times can't be told his/her life wasn't worth it, preservation of his/her family wasn't worth it.  You're only saying it's not worth it to you -- which (I hope) you don't mean.

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the statistics do say that. i think you are confused with how statistics are used in this context.

what these studies have done (simply speaking) is track different sample groups eg. gun owners and non gun owners ,then record how many from each group die of a certain type of death or whatever. when these studies are done using the proper methods and controls, the findings(statistics) can be used to assess (usually quite accurately) certain future risks. i.e the health risks of gun ownership. bear in mind the studies i cited were peer reviewed and published in medical journals and there are lots of these studies that have come up with similar findings.

Then it may provide a lesson in carelessness, which never hurts to give.  An attempt to use it as anything but that, however, is dishonest.

Las Vegas

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Re: Proposed Gun Law Changes by Students:
« Reply #435 on: April 17, 2018, 06:18:45 PM »
Conker, I don’t know if you want a repeal of the 2nd amendment or a ban on certain guns.

Whatever the number of uses of guns for defensive purposes, 1 out of 6 who do report they have, say that but for their gun, they’d be dead.  And gun laws, like speed limits and restraining orders, affect the behavior of law-abiding citizens, not criminals. 

If the number of uses of guns for defensive purposes is 100,000, banning guns results in 16,000 additional murders each year.  If it’s 1,000,000 then 160,000 additional murders occur each year.  And the number of rapes, muggings, burglaries, etc. would also necessarily skyrocket.

He wants a gun ban.

I'll say, to his credit, his attempts at honesty are all good by me.  I respect that about him, way more than I could ever disrespect his opinion (even on such an important matter).  He's also from UK, so it requires taking that into account with his opinion.

Personally, I've lost track of how many individuals I've known (over the years) who've been forced to draw a firearm to settle a very pressing question of immediate safety.  A once-in-a-lifetime thing, maybe (with hope and prayer), but how many times are required make it "worth" it?

illuminati

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Re: Proposed Gun Law Changes by Students:
« Reply #436 on: April 17, 2018, 06:31:55 PM »
Conker, I don’t know if you want a repeal of the 2nd amendment or a ban on certain guns.

Whatever the number of uses of guns for defensive purposes, 1 out of 6 who do report they have, say that but for their gun, they’d be dead.  And gun laws, like speed limits and restraining orders, affect the behavior of law-abiding citizens, not criminals.  

If the number of uses of guns for defensive purposes is 100,000, banning guns results in 16,000 additional murders each year.  If it’s 1,000,000 then 160,000 additional murders occur each year.  And the number of rapes, muggings, burglaries, etc. would also necessarily skyrocket.



“If the number of uses of guns for defensive purposes is 100,000, banning guns results in 16,000 additional murders each year.  If it’s 1,000,000 then 160,000 additional murders occur each year.  And the number of rapes, muggings, burglaries, etc. would also necessarily skyrocket.”

Ban all Dindu’s 1st & those numbers will drop significantly anyway
It may negate the Ban Gun argument altogether.

 ;D

chaos

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Re: Proposed Gun Law Changes by Students:
« Reply #437 on: April 17, 2018, 06:56:40 PM »
Conker is English, he believes the government will protect him and has no problem with going to jail for having a pocket knife or saying mean things on the internet.
Liar!!!!Filt!!!!

beakdoctor

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Re: Proposed Gun Law Changes by Students:
« Reply #438 on: April 18, 2018, 12:20:17 AM »
you would think if this was a genuine movement there would be a multi faceted approach. calling out politician s and judges who have gone easy on violent criminals, call for reform for mental health in the United States, some sort of early warning for potential active shooters based on profiling and red flags, like an alert system, comprehensive lockout and lockdown procedures with ballistic panels in us public schools...... it seems attacking weapons ma ufacturers would be the last place to look for change. But these activists are so single mindedly obsessed with the gun lobby while virtually ignoring other factors, that would actually save a life, that you have to wonder if it's part of a hidden agenda.

Pray_4_War

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Re: Proposed Gun Law Changes by Students:
« Reply #439 on: April 18, 2018, 03:15:18 AM »
you would think if this was a genuine movement there would be a multi faceted approach. calling out politician s and judges who have gone easy on violent criminals, call for reform for mental health in the United States, some sort of early warning for potential active shooters based on profiling and red flags, like an alert system, comprehensive lockout and lockdown procedures with ballistic panels in us public schools...... it seems attacking weapons ma ufacturers would be the last place to look for change. But these activists are so single mindedly obsessed with the gun lobby while virtually ignoring other factors, that would actually save a life, that you have to wonder if it's part of a hidden agenda.

Bingo.  One of many reasons why they can stick their proposed gun control up their dishonest asses.

This is something that Democrats have been wanting for a long time.  These kids are just the latest tool that they are using to get it.

None of they shit they want to do will affect school shootings in any way and they know it.

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Proposed Gun Law Changes by Students:
« Reply #440 on: April 18, 2018, 03:32:48 AM »
you would think if this was a genuine movement there would be a multi faceted approach. calling out politician s and judges who have gone easy on violent criminals, call for reform for mental health in the United States, some sort of early warning for potential active shooters based on profiling and red flags, like an alert system, comprehensive lockout and lockdown procedures with ballistic panels in us public schools...... it seems attacking weapons ma ufacturers would be the last place to look for change. But these activists are so single mindedly obsessed with the gun lobby while virtually ignoring other factors, that would actually save a life, that you have to wonder if it's part of a hidden agenda.

Funny you mentioned this , perp with 112 priors shot and killed a Cape Cod police officer , stabbed someone while on parole , beat his pregnant g/f , these are the exact same anti-gun politicians & judges who allow these violent felons back on the street.

https://turtleboysports.com/the-judges-who-let-this-112-time-violent-felon-animal-remain-free-to-murder-yarmouth-cop-sean-gannon-need-to-resign-and-face-criminal-charges/

chaos

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Re: Proposed Gun Law Changes by Students:
« Reply #441 on: April 18, 2018, 02:02:44 PM »
Are those kids back in school yet ???
Liar!!!!Filt!!!!

Moontrane

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Re: Proposed Gun Law Changes by Students:
« Reply #442 on: April 18, 2018, 03:47:41 PM »
Are those kids back in school yet ???

Parkland Students Are Not Happy About Their Clear Backpacks

https://www.thecut.com/2018/04/florida-school-shooting-clear-backpacks.html


Conker

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Re: Proposed Gun Law Changes by Students:
« Reply #443 on: April 19, 2018, 01:38:22 AM »
ok, some good responses. i don't have time to address each one but just to summarise my point. i don't have any idea how many "lives are saved" or "crimes prevented" due to use of a firearm. as i've said, i have no idea how it's quantified and as the study from 20013 says, the estimated figures vary wildly.


but regardless of how many crimes are stopped etc, it still won't change the fact that statistics show gun owners/families are more risk of violent death than non gun owners. that is basically the only point i've been making here. if anyone has any data that disproves that i would be glad to see it

none of this has any impact on my life as i live in the UK, but sometimes when you're heavily involved in something it's hard to actually see what's really going on. as an outsider with no emotional attachment it's sometimes easier to look at the situation objectively.

and just by looking at the stats i.e murder rate, gun crime rate, random massacre frequency, the number of guns/gun owners and looking at the available studies that have been done,  it's obvious to anyone outside of the US that the number of guns in circulation is at the very least is a huge part of the problem.

it's a shame that more research is not being done into gun violence to shed more light on the situation, then people would be able to form a more informed opinion rather than relying on anecdotal evidence. but it seems one side of the debate is keen to stop that happening.



NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Proposed Gun Law Changes by Students:
« Reply #444 on: April 19, 2018, 03:43:38 AM »
ok, some good responses. i don't have time to address each one but just to summarise my point. i don't have any idea how many "lives are saved" or "crimes prevented" due to use of a firearm. as i've said, i have no idea how it's quantified and as the study from 20013 says, the estimated figures vary wildly.


but regardless of how many crimes are stopped etc, it still won't change the fact that statistics show gun owners/families are more risk of violent death than non gun owners. that is basically the only point i've been making here. if anyone has any data that disproves that i would be glad to see it

none of this has any impact on my life as i live in the UK, but sometimes when you're heavily involved in something it's hard to actually see what's really going on. as an outsider with no emotional attachment it's sometimes easier to look at the situation objectively.

and just by looking at the stats i.e murder rate, gun crime rate, random massacre frequency, the number of guns/gun owners and looking at the available studies that have been done,  it's obvious to anyone outside of the US that the number of guns in circulation is at the very least is a huge part of the problem.

it's a shame that more research is not being done into gun violence to shed more light on the situation, then people would be able to form a more informed opinion rather than relying on anecdotal evidence. but it seems one side of the debate is keen to stop that happening.




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ok, some good responses. i don't have time to address each one but just to summarise my point. i don't have any idea how many "lives are saved" or "crimes prevented" due to use of a firearm. as i've said, i have no idea how it's quantified and as the study from 20013 says, the estimated figures vary wildly.

Translation " I'm owned , I look like a fucking idiot so I'm trying to bow out gracefully " You have an idea of how many lives are saved because it was pointed out to you repeatedly , I've even gone with the lowest estimate multiple times to show you that firearms take lives as well as save lives. You kept repeating the anti-gun mantra and then I proved that was bullshit.

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but regardless of how many crimes are stopped etc, it still won't change the fact that statistics show gun owners/families are more risk of violent death than non gun owners. that is basically the only point i've been making here. if anyone has any data that disproves that i would be glad to see it

RISK  ::) and people are at much more RISK of drowning if they own a pool than those who don't. And that's basically the point you've been making here? BULLSHIT the point you've been selling is if America had no guns it would have no mass killings , which is childish and moronic.

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none of this has any impact on my life as i live in the UK, but sometimes when you're heavily involved in something it's hard to actually see what's really going on. as an outsider with no emotional attachment it's sometimes easier to look at the situation objectively.

LMFAO No emotional attachment? Every " argument " you put forward is an argument from emotion. You can NOT look at the situation " objectively " because it's very nuanced and intricate. You cannot even get the basics correct. You're willfully ignorant on the subject trying to lecture people on a subject you know absolutely NOTHING about  using anti-gun propaganda as your talking points. You're clueless on the subject that's a proven fact. And it's part of the reason you're looking for an out now with the " I don't have time to address everything " nonsense.

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and just by looking at the stats i.e murder rate, gun crime rate, random massacre frequency, the number of guns/gun owners and looking at the available studies that have been done,  it's obvious to anyone outside of the US that the number of guns in circulation is at the very least is a huge part of the problem.

Keep typing this nonsense. random massacres are very rare despite what you're being told , see above about you being clueless.

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it's a shame that more research is not being done into gun violence to shed more light on the situation, then people would be able to form a more informed opinion rather than relying on anecdotal evidence. but it seems one side of the debate is keen to stop that happening.

It's a shame the people who were doing the research were politically anti-gun motivated and used their platform to punish & demonize legal gun owners. and LMFAO at " informed opinion " that's the last thing you have , you're ignorant on the subject that's blatantly obvious which is why you've been taking such as ass beating in this thread. Your farewell speech won't work , We'll see you next mass shooting crying " I told you so "  maybe by then you'll actually read something other than your anti-gun Guardian propaganda and came back with facts.


Conker

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Re: Proposed Gun Law Changes by Students:
« Reply #445 on: April 19, 2018, 05:34:26 AM »
lol. the resident lunatic stalker is back!

yes i was really owned . i produced 7 studies that all backed my point. for the 100th time! gun owners are more at risk of violent death than non gun owners and so far no one has offered anything that challenges that fact. saying how many lives are saved blah blah blah, does not alter that fact.

yes swimming pools do come with a health risk but people don't buy swimming pools thinking they're great for protection, do they ?. this is my point. one of the main reasons cited for owning a gun is protection. when the data (however counter-intuitive it may seem) shows us this a not a good reason to own one.

ok i'll leave you to keep chasing rainbows and beating up straw man arguments. i don't got time!


NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Proposed Gun Law Changes by Students:
« Reply #446 on: April 19, 2018, 06:20:05 AM »
lol. the resident lunatic stalker is back!

yes i was really owned . i produced 7 studies that all backed my point. for the 100th time! gun owners are more at risk of violent death than non gun owners and so far no one has offered anything that challenges that fact. saying how many lives are saved blah blah blah, does not alter that fact.

yes swimming pools do come with a health risk but people don't buy swimming pools thinking they're great for protection, do they ?. this is my point. one of the main reasons cited for owning a gun is protection. when the data (however counter-intuitive it may seem) shows us this a not a good reason to own one.

ok i'll leave you to keep chasing rainbows and beating up straw man arguments. i don't got time!



That's not your " point " your whole premise is no one should own guns and after you get multiple people pointing out exactly how and why you're incorrect , you want out because you ran against a wall of facts. You think attacking me will deflect your lies? It won't

At bare minimum 500,000 people use firearms to protect themselves which is 10 X the amount from ALL homicides & suicides , so your bullshit premise you're more likely to die a violent death than to ever use your gun to protect yourself is a lie. You take away people's guns you create a least a million victims , you don't care though

Again owning a car puts you at risk for a violent death more than not owning one ,a much ,much higher risk than owning a firearm , you are not calling for a ban of cars though are you??  :D


Run Along with your tail between your legs and slag off back to your shit hole where you're a slave to your masters and live in fear of offending the wrong people and carrying a butter knife





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Re: Proposed Gun Law Changes by Students:
« Reply #447 on: April 19, 2018, 11:18:40 AM »
Conker is English, he believes the government will protect him and has no problem with going to jail for having a pocket knife or saying mean things on the internet.

He's most likely an older fart too.

#BenOldFarts
.

mazrim

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Re: Proposed Gun Law Changes by Students:
« Reply #448 on: April 19, 2018, 07:13:24 PM »
Last time it was studied a couple years ago the UK and US were virtually identical for mass shootings per capita. You can look that up as well if you care to.

Conker

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Re: Proposed Gun Law Changes by Students:
« Reply #449 on: April 20, 2018, 12:46:21 AM »
Last time it was studied a couple years ago the UK and US were virtually identical for mass shootings per capita. You can look that up as well if you care to.

trolling, much!