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Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Mixed Martial Arts (MMA/UFC) => Topic started by: Bluto on August 02, 2008, 12:39:10 PM
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#1 - Dude doesnt fight the best. Hasnt fought Randy. Hasn't fought Josh. Hasnt fought Werdum. Hasnt fought Arlowski. The list goes on and on...
#2 - Dude got some fast heavy hands, yet he doesnt knock anybody out. What a shame for the fans. ONE KO his whole career (!) back in 2000 against a japanse can who had his debut (and then went on and lost 3 outta 4 fights before he quit altogether!)
#3 - When he meet some tough competition, he cant finish the fights. His submission skills and tko power goes out the window. Winning by decision. He couldnt finish either Nog or Crocop.
#4 - "but he got 30 fights!! and never been beaten" oh yeah? ever take a close look at that record? half the fights are against cans, has-beens, leftovers or fighters that have more losses than wins! it's embarrasing to see the kinda fighters they hook him up with over in Japan. His real record should be 13-14 fights and that's stretching it...
#5 - Fedor fights in the HW, but is the HW the toughest fight division, with the most fierce competition? Let's take a look at the top 10 - randy is over the hill, nog has seen better days, sylvia... arlovski ufc leftovers... crocop seen better days... ben rothwell... gonzaga...
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sounds more like 5 things you can wipe your ass with if ya run out of toilet paper.
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Imteresting points. P4P who is the best will always be a matter of personal oppion. Even you Bluto are entilted to this.
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sounds more like 5 things you can wipe your ass with if ya run out of toilet paper.
I can wipe my ass with your comments
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I'm not convinced. You could theoretically apply many of these same arguments to another best pound for pound fighter. GSP hasn't straight up knocked anyone smooth out either, and he only has won three, I believe, by TKO from strikes. Most of his wins come by submission. He couldn't finish Koscheck, BJ or Jason Miller. The competition in the welterweight division isn't the toughest it has ever been either. Fitch and Alves are both tough, but then who? How many times do we want to see him beat up Matt Hughes?
All that being said, I still think the P4P crown is between Fedor, Silva and GSP. I like the playing of Devil's advocate here, though. Make people think about WHY they actually like their "favorite" fighter instead of just folowwing everyone elses opinions.
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I'm not specifically talking about P4P here but about Fedor in general.
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He will probably never fight another decent fighter in his career. Couture couldn't even beat Chuck, so I don't consider him to be top class. There is just no one out there for Fedor to fight.
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there's a half dozen guys out there in the shitty hw division that fedor should fight, then he can retire.
most of them have been around as long as he has, so that makes you wonder why he hasnt fought them already.
machida fought 4 times in 2007. a total of 11 rounds of fighting.
fedor fought 2 times. a total of 2 rounds. (once against matt lindland that isnt even a hw and once against the retard hong man choi)
i wonder if he has the condition to fight as much as some of the other guys of the sport!!
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Not only has Fedor fought Nog twice, Coleman twice, Arona, Fujita, Crocop, Sobral, Herring, Goodridge, Randleman, Hunt, Lindland, Sylvia and a few others but he has also won the Sambo championships from 1997 to 2008. The funny thing about fighting is that everybody seems to get caught. It's kind of like football. On any given Sunday.....
Fedor has only been caught once and he recovered. The Fujita fight. The first Kohsaka fight was bull. Fedor would have still fought.
I think it is safe to say he has more than 30 fights. Ever watched Sambo?
Moderators are supposed to be knowledgeable and unbiased.
You are neither.
I'd resign.
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Not only has Fedor fought Nog twice, Coleman twice, Arona, Fujita, Crocop, Sobral, Herring, Goodridge, Randleman, Hunt, Lindland, Sylvia and a few others but he has also won the Sambo championships from 1997 to 2008. The funny thing about fighting is that everybody seems to get caught. It's kind of like football. On any given Sunday.....
Fedor has only been caught once and he recovered. The Fujita fight. The first Kohsaka fight was bull. Fedor would have still fought.
I think it is safe to say he has more than 30 fights. Ever watched Sambo?
Who cares about his Sambo record? We're talking MMA here and if you take away all the cans he fought, you can cut his 30 fight record in HALF.
We could probably cut it down to about a dozen times he fought some decent competition in 8 years. Not very impressive IMO.
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We could probably cut it down to about a dozen times he fought some decent competition in 8 years. Not very impressive IMO.
I'm sure he's devastated that he hasn't impressed you.
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STOP IT!!!!!!!!!!'
give the guy some credit. you say he hasn;t fought anyone but he made sylvia look like a bum..the guys is a machine. he will not be beat for a very long time and there is no doubt in my mind he would run through the ufc
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STOP IT!!!!!!!!!!'
give the guy some credit. you say he hasn;t fought anyone but he made sylvia look like a bum..the guys is a machine. he will not be beat for a very long time and there is no doubt in my mind he would run through the ufc
Yeah we need to give Fedor some credit here... cut the guy some slack. Everybody is against Fedor...
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he hasn't lost a fight in eight years. name anyone else who can claim that. arlovski got beat by tim sylvia twice in a row, fedor manhandled him in 30 seconds.
the bitch of being the best is that everyone's gonna find a reason to say you aren't. he's gonna keep on winning, and people will keep making up reasons why he's overrated. he could have 100 straight victories and people'll still bitch.
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he hasn't lost a fight in eight years. name anyone else who can claim that. arlovski got beat by tim sylvia twice in a row, fedor manhandled him in 30 seconds.
the bitch of being the best is that everyone's gonna find a reason to say you aren't. he's gonna keep on winning, and people will keep making up reasons why he's overrated. he could have 100 straight victories and people'll still bitch.
I agree with you, but I honestly don't see a scenario where he fights a decent opponent. Not in Affliction, maybe not even in the UFC. Which is not to say he isn't heads and shoulders above all the other HWs. There are just no excellent HWs other than him right now.
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Here's the only decent fighters fedor fought his whole career... lemme know if i missed one!
arona. (arona has 3 losses due to ko, 1 split decision and one decision loss... by fedor!)
sobral. (win by decision... chuck on the other hand ko'ed him once, tko the 2nd time.. Overeem submitted him. jason lambert knocked him out, but not fedor)
heath. (tko win by cut...)
semmy. (win by decision. fedor couldnt finish him, after that semmy fought nog and josh - both submitted him and did what fedor couldnt....)
nog twice (both by decision. couldnt finish him)
fujita. (submission win after 4 mins, travis wuiff managed to KO him 1.24 now thats more like it!)
randleman (submitted him in 1.33mins, crocop on the other hand needed only 41 secs to do the same.. thats how hard it is to submit randleman!)
crocop (couldnt knock him, tko him, or submit him, win by decision)
hunt (wow submitting hunt, took him 8 minutes, josh did it in 2min, overeem in 1min)
sylvia (ufc leftover coming off a loss against nog got submitted in 36 secs, but not the first time - arlovski did it in 47 secs, frank mir in 50secs)
These are the fights that made fedor the legend, the king of mma, the P4P champ that you talk about.... ::)
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he hasn't lost a fight in eight years. name anyone else who can claim that. arlovski got beat by tim sylvia twice in a row, fedor manhandled him in 30 seconds.
the bitch of being the best is that everyone's gonna find a reason to say you aren't. he's gonna keep on winning, and people will keep making up reasons why he's overrated. he could have 100 straight victories and people'll still bitch.
a dozen decent fights in 8 years isnt much. dodging half the fighters on the top-10 hw list isnt impressive. not being able to ko or submit people that others are able to ko or submit isnt impressive either.
fedor mandhandled sylvia. so did arlovski. so did mir. doesnt say shit. he's gonna keep on winning? based on what? based on the shitty quality of the HW maybe. and as shitty as it is, he's still hasnt fought half of them on there...
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Fedor is the best fighter in MMA. Anyone who thinks differently is an idiot.
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not gonna watch 9 minutes of fedor fighting cans... or winning by decision against the FEW good fighters he fight. sorry
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fedor fighting cans
quit already...
>:(
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quit already...
>:(
Just take a look at his record... it doesnt exactly spill over of great fighters in their prime fighting him...
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Just take a look at his record... it doesnt exactly spill over of great fighters in their prime fighting him...
He has fought alot of great fighters and won.
I can't believe you are trying to debate that. ::)
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He has fought alot of great fighters and won.
I can't believe you are trying to debate that. ::)
Yes he has. And so have a lot of others. Whats your point?
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Yes he has. And so have a lot of others. Whats your point?
He's never been beat.
That's why he is the best and highest paid fighter in MMA.
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He's never been beat.
That's why he is the best and highest paid fighter in MMA.
He's not the only one that hasnt been beat.
And it's a lot easier not to be beat, if you dont fight the best. Or only fight once or twice a year. Josh fought 7 times in 2006. Fedor fought twice. Now tell me statistically who has the greatest risk of losing or getting injured?
But you guys dont think about that. All you see is a fight record that says 30 fights and no losses, even though half the fights was against cans. And half the worlds best HW's are missing. Including the no 1 competition in both ufc AND ex-pride.
To be the best... you gotta fight the best.
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To be the best... you gotta fight the best.
like who ?
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To be the best... you gotta fight the best.
Are you drunk?
Fedor has fought and beat the best.
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He's not the only one that hasnt been beat.
And it's a lot easier not to be beat, if you dont fight the best. Or only fight once or twice a year. Josh fought 7 times in 2006. Fedor fought twice. Now tell me statistically who has the greatest risk of losing or getting injured?
But you guys dont think about that. All you see is a fight record that says 30 fights and no losses, even though half the fights was against cans. And half the worlds best HW's are missing. Including the no 1 competition in both ufc AND ex-pride.
To be the best... you gotta fight the best.
Bluto don't take lines from some cheesy ass MMA video
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like who ?
Like Josh and Randy.
If we take a look at the top-10 list of HW's Fedor only fought 3 on that list :-\
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Like Josh and Randy.
If we take a look at the top-10 list of HW's Fedor only fought 3 on that list :-\
Fedor would beat both of them. ::)
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Fedor would beat both of them. ::)
Maybe. Maybe not. There's only one way to be sure.
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I'm not feeling getting into this argument. There are valid points here, but the reality is that until someone beats Fedor, he is the king. Even in his decision wins, he dominates the fights. He made Crocop look like he had no reason to be in the fight. Nog was beaten pretty badly, twice. A decision win is a win.
So if it isn't Fedor, who do you propose is the best HW?
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MMA will get you killed in the street!
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Like Josh and Randy.
If we take a look at the top-10 list of HW's Fedor only fought 3 on that list :-\
When you say top-10 I suppose you are talking about a CURRENT top-10 list. Are you failing to give him credit for previous fighters that were in the top-10 as well? That would be unfair considering some of the previous elite fighters have retired, faced injuries or just plain gotten past their prime. How many of those top 10 has Randy beaten? How many of those top 10 has Josh beaten?
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I wonder how well Fedor would do...
in a cage! :D
A WHOLE DIFFERENT BALLGAME!
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I wonder how well Fedor would do...
in a cage! :D
A WHOLE DIFFERENT BALLGAME!
you just don't quit do ya ?
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you just don't quit do ya ?
winners never quit
and quitters never win
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I wonder how well Fedor would do...
in a cage! :D
A WHOLE DIFFERENT BALLGAME!
Legitimate question. Ask Crocop...
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Legitimate question. Ask Crocop...
Fedor has great ground skills, Cro Cop doesn't.
Fedor would do very well in the cage.
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Fedor has great ground skills, Cro Cop doesn't.
Fedor would do very well in the cage.
Ground skills have very little to do with the differences from to a ring to a cage. Ring cut-off, stalking, positioning, it's all different. I'm confused as to what you are refering to.
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Ground skills have very little to do with the differences from to a ring to a cage. Ring cut-off, stalking, positioning, it's all different. I'm confused as to what you are refering to.
Ground skills have a lot to do with the difference's between a ring and a cage. In a ring you can corner someone and out strike them. You can't corner someone in a cage. That's why Cro Cop did so poorly in The UFC, Cro Cop is a striker.
Fedor has great submission skills. That's how he wins almost all of his fights. You can submit anyone in a cage, you don't need to corner your opponent to win. That's why wrestlers do well in The Ufc and do poorly in a ring.
That's what makes Fedor the best fighter in world. He is very well rounded.
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fedor mandhandled sylvia. so did arlovski.
arlovski is 1-2 with sylvia, having lost to him in their two most recent bouts by TKO and decision. arlovski never "manhandled" him and in their last two meetings he lost both times.
so just out of curiosity, who IS the best heavyweight? defend your answer.
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arlovski is 1-2 with sylvia, having lost to him in their two most recent bouts by TKO and decision. arlovski never "manhandled" him and in their last two meetings he lost both times.
so just out of curiosity, who IS the best heavyweight? defend your answer.
The point is that you use Fedor's quick victory over Sylvia to illustrate how good Fedor is, when in reality it doesn't say much since Sylvia lost against others nearly as fast before, not once, but twice.
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You have not addressed the question Bluto...
Who is the best HW fighter in your opinion?
For that matter who would you say is the beset P4P fighter in your opinion?
Defend your argument....
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You have not addressed the question Bluto...
Who is the best HW fighter in your opinion?
For that matter who would you say is the beset P4P fighter in your opinion?
Defend your argument....
Defend my argument? I'll defend each and every one of the 5 points posted on the first page and the whole point of this thread.
Lemme know which of them you wanna discuss
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I think Fedor is, by a pretty decent margin, the best HW fighter MMA has, followed by Nog and Crocop (when he is in a non tested federation ;)) I don't make any bones about that, so Im curious to hear who Bluto thinks the best HW fighter is. An opinion is just an opinion, and I don't judge. But he has been very adament in his assertion that it isn't Fedor, so who is it?
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I think Fedor is, by a pretty decent margin, the best HW fighter MMA has, followed by Nog and Crocop (when he is in a non tested federation ;)) I don't make any bones about that, so Im curious to hear who Bluto thinks the best HW fighter is. An opinion is just an opinion, and I don't judge. But he has been very adament in his assertion that it isn't Fedor, so who is it?
I'm sure Bluto thinks Kimbo Slice is the best MMA fighter on the planet.
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I'm sure Bluto thinks Kimbo Slice is the best MMA fighter on the planet.
;D STFU No one is that dumb. I would fall out of my chair...
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I think Fedor is, by a pretty decent margin, the best HW fighter MMA has, followed by Nog and Crocop (when he is in a non tested federation ;)) I don't make any bones about that, so Im curious to hear who Bluto thinks the best HW fighter is. An opinion is just an opinion, and I don't judge. But he has been very adament in his assertion that it isn't Fedor, so who is it?
I have? When?
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Defend my argument? I'll defend each and every one of the 5 points posted on the first page and the whole point of this thread.
Lemme know which of them you wanna discuss
Did you not understand my post.. I said IYO WHO DO YOU THINK IS THE BEST P4P HW FIGHTER?
Not defend your 5 points of discrediting Fedor. I would rather not argue something that has no point.
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Did you not understand my post.. I said IYO WHO DO YOU THINK IS THE BEST P4P HW FIGHTER?
Not defend your 5 points of discrediting Fedor. I would rather not argue something that has no point.
Stick to the subject. Easier that way. If my 5 points doesnt interest you, dont click on the thread.
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Stick to the subject. Easier that way. If my 5 points doesnt interest you, dont click on the thread.
Bluto answer the question and give some points. You are saying that Fedor is not the best in the world. I say this because you can't say that the top HW is overrated without implying that he is no longer the best HW in the world... SO WHO IS!
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Bluto answer the question and give some points. You are saying that Fedor is not the best in the world. I say this because you can't say that the top HW is overrated without implying that he is no longer the best HW in the world... SO WHO IS!
I'm saying this? You got a quote?
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Answer the question. If you were just playing devil's advocate and really think he is the best, and just decided to get the whole board into an uproar for your amusement and personal agenda, then that's cool, no worries, but we are all dying to know who you think the top fighter is... Fedor or not.
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I've never said he isn't #1, as far as HW rankings goes he is. But that doesn't mean there can't be criticism:
- His 30+ fight record that people throw around to prove his greatness is seriously flawed.
- There's quite a big number of fighters he hasn't fought (including Josh and Randy) and some I'd like to see him fight again (like Semmy)
- His win against Sylvia didn't really prove all that much.
- We don't know how well he would perform in a cage (people thought Crocop was nearly unbeatable before he did)
- Is he a lifetime natural?
- Call me old fashioned but when I see a heavyweight like that, with heavy hands but who never knocks people out - it's a damn shame.
And as far as p4p - maybe it's the quality (or rather lack of) of the HW division that makes Fedor look so good? How well does it measure up to the other divisons? (Sherdog got Fedor as #3 after Anderson Silva and GSP)
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I've never said he isn't #1, as far as HW rankings goes he is. But that doesn't mean there can't be criticism:
- His 30+ fight record that people throw around to prove his greatness is seriously flawed.
- There's quite a big number of fighters he hasn't fought (including Josh and Randy) and some I'd like to see him fight again (like Semmy)
- His win against Sylvia didn't really prove all that much.
- We don't know how well he would perform in a cage (people thought Crocop was nearly unbeatable before he did)
- Is he a lifetime natural?
- Call me old fashioned but when I see a heavyweight like that, with heavy hands but who never knocks people out - it's a damn shame.
And as far as p4p - maybe it's the quality (or rather lack of) of the HW division that makes Fedor look so good? How well does it measure up to the other divisons? (Sherdog got Fedor as #3 after Anderson Silva and GSP)
Couture is 16-8. Fedor has fought much better opponents than Couture. If anyone should be criticized it should be Randy Couture. Randy fought big Tim and won by a decision. It took Fedor just 36 seconds to beat Tim, and he made the 2 time UFC heavyweight champ look like a can.
Also, your debate about ring vs. cage? Fedor wins almost all of his fights by submission. The cage would make no difference in his fighting style.
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Couture is 16-8. Fedor has fought much better opponents than Couture. If anyone should be criticized it should be Randy Couture. Randy fought big Tim and won by a decision. It took Fedor just 36 seconds to beat Tim, and he made the 2 time UFC heavyweight champ look like a can.
Also, your debate about ring vs. cage? Fedor wins almost all of his fights by submission. The cage would make no difference in his fighting style.
Tim been beat before quickly. And fighers that Fedor struggled with, others finished either by KO or submission when Fedor couldnt do either.
You claimed yesterday Fedor fought the best and beat them - not true.
Then you say well he would ::) We dont know unless it happens. I think you need to stop looking at Fedor as his Superman. he isnt.
The ring vs cage was brought up yesterday. It's more to it than suiting someone just because he do submissions.
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You're still ducking the question.
If Fedor isn't the best then who is?
He never faced barnett because Josh always derailed himself due to poor conditioning and never made it up the ranks to face Fedor.
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You're still ducking the question.
If Fedor isn't the best then who is?
He never faced barnett because Josh always derailed himself due to poor conditioning and never made it up the ranks to face Fedor.
I aint ducking shit I said he's the #1 ranked hw. Learn to read. Josh was apparantely in good enough condiiton to fight Mark Hunt, Fedors brother, Crocop (three times!), semmy schilt (twice!), Randy couture, nog (twice!) but not fedor eh? he never made it up the ranks??
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I aint ducking shit I said he's the #1 ranked hw. Learn to read. Josh was apparantely in good enough condiiton to fight Mark Hunt, Fedors brother, Crocop (three times!), semmy schilt (twice!), Randy couture, nog (twice!) but not fedor eh? he never made it up the ranks??
Cro Cop destroyed Josh 3 times. ;)
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I aint ducking shit I said he's the #1 ranked hw. Learn to read. Josh was apparantely in good enough condiiton to fight Mark Hunt, Fedors brother, Crocop (three times!), semmy schilt (twice!), Randy couture, nog (twice!) but not fedor eh? he never made it up the ranks??
Really? so if he was that damn good why wasn't he slated to face Fedor? Barnett is very popular in japan so do you think that Pride would have held him back? He has said several times that his conditioning needs to be improved. He gassed out a few times during his matches by his own admittance. I'm not saying he doesn't deserve a chance but something has always derailed josh on the way up - injury,loss, whatever.
Either way if Barnett can get past Arlovski he will be facing Fedor and this whole pointless debate will be settled.
Lets put it another way
Fedor is ranked No1 - do you think he deserves that ranking? If not who should be ranked No1?
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Really? so if he was that damn good why wasn't he slated to face Fedor? Barnett is very popular in japan so do you think that Pride would have held him back? He has said several times that his conditioning needs to be improved. He gassed out a few times during his matches by his own admittance. I'm not saying he doesn't deserve a chance but something has always derailed josh on the way up - injury,loss, whatever.
Didnt I just post a shitload of some of the best fighters ever that Josh fought and yet you say he was derailed on the way up? on the way up there? he faced pretty much everybody but fedor didnt he? you make it sound like he was on a whole different league ?
Josh fought 10 times since 2006, 20 rounds - fedor 5 times, 6 rounds, youre sure it's not fedor that got the conditioning problem :D
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Didnt I just post a shitload of some of the best fighters ever that Josh fought and yet you say he was derailed on the way up? on the way up there? he faced pretty much everybody but fedor didnt he? you make it sound like he was on a whole different league ?
Josh fought 10 times since 2006, 20 rounds - fedor 5 times, 6 rounds, youre sure it's not fedor that got the conditioning problem :D
He wasn't derailed by injuries or losses? If he was so consistent why didn't he get that title shot? What held him back? Lets hear your theory
Maybe Pride was in such awe of barnett that they decided to prevent him from facing Fedor. ::)
As for Fedor being on a different league- maybe you should take your own advice and learn to read.
Where did I say Fedor was better than barnett or vice versa? They never fought so how could that assessment be made?
Still no response huh? Next time use that pea sized grey matter that is your brain before you post the usual rubbish