Author Topic: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.  (Read 119087 times)

The Ugly

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #525 on: April 28, 2015, 03:10:33 PM »
Are you now mad at God because He has blessed you with the beautiful pleasures of sexual relations?   ;D

Not angry, certainly not at him. Authors just didn't think this through is all.

James28

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #526 on: May 07, 2015, 02:03:05 AM »
i remember the first time i heard a philosophical argument for the existence of God.
"how stupid, and ridiculously circular, i can't believe my professor wants us to learn this!"
but then a couple days later, a weight dropped on my head. my eyes started to tear. for the first time in my life i realized that God exists.
it took me almost 5 years of obsessive searching until I finally found Him.
only to find out that He was not hidden at all.
He had been under my nose the whole time.
I had been making fun of Him, arguing against Him, calling His testimony a fraud and a fake.

So i understand why He seems tautological to you.  :)

You bumped into him right about the time you got Aids?
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Man of Steel

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #527 on: May 07, 2015, 06:25:55 AM »
I hope you understand I'm not ganging up here, my friend, but MoS. Dude. You're way too smart to believe this verse explains anything, really.

The earth and sky somehow reveal God? C'mon, guy. This is childish. Akin to Bill O'Reilly defending creation with the rising tide (Google). This wouldn't work for you, so why use it here? With this angle, science provides plenty of "excuses" for "not knowing God."

Also, why doesn't Romans capitalize "his"?

It's all good.  I've actually never quoted this verse....this was the first time I have on these boards.

It's a reminder for me that no matter how often folks attempt to suppress the reality of God that his law is written on each of our hearts and his existence is evident to everyone.  

This won't convince an unbeliever of anything, but it's not convincing that people need.  It's just about leading others to the mercy and truth of Christ.  For some this takes only a few moments for others it takes a lifetime.  If I can somehow be used in that process then glory to God for that.     :)

Man of Steel

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #528 on: May 07, 2015, 06:33:15 AM »

No, I want proof, verifiable proof otherwise my muslim friend is just as convinced as you and you both can't be right?

I can't just believe you.

Proof is grounded in mathematics and logic. 

Once you remove God from the equation you've stepped outside the Christian worldview and you've invented a different worldview from which to argue from.

Call God "magic" if you want, but the reality is he's trascendent, infinite and supernatural.....this can't be force fit into naturalism so the debate is typically either thrown out or mocked.....solves absolutely nothing.

Evidence must be followed to where it leads; although, it seems the only evidence allowed is that of naturalism and that won't get the job done for God....sorry, but it won't.  You must consider the transcendent nature of logic and special revelation of God to his body of believers (most apologists disagree with this approach....I don't care).  Special revelation achieved by proactively seeking God according to his terms established in scripture is a great way to go.  You can begin with the testimony of believers as a baseline (which is an enormous body of evidence), but refuse to follow (or accept) that evidence and it provides no value because it isn't utilized....it's justified away.  Demand reproduction of God in a lab and you'll always fall short......natural can't bottle the supernatural.  God must be allowed to be God.

The Ugly

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #529 on: May 07, 2015, 12:39:07 PM »
It's all good.  I've actually never quoted this verse....this was the first time I have on these boards.

It's a reminder for me that no matter how often folks attempt to suppress the reality of God that his law is written on each of our hearts and his existence is evident to everyone.  

This won't convince an unbeliever of anything, but it's not convincing that people need.  It's just about leading others to the mercy and truth of Christ.  For some this takes only a few moments for others it takes a lifetime.  If I can somehow be used in that process then glory to God for that.     :)

Can't I just be a good boy for Christ's sake?

 :)

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #530 on: May 08, 2015, 06:52:23 AM »
Proof is grounded in mathematics and logic. 


so the logic is that god is written in our hearts and he is the christian god. How can you verify this? why the christian god?

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #531 on: May 08, 2015, 06:57:42 AM »
Francis is antichrist

Man of Steel

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #532 on: May 08, 2015, 09:21:49 AM »
so the logic is that god is written in our hearts and he is the christian god. How can you verify this? why the christian god?

It's not necessarily a statement of logic, just the truth of scripture understood specifically by believers born again in Christ.

How can I verify this?  The life changing work of Christ in my life coupled with the tangible presence and experience of the Holy Spirit.  Validates the essence of salvific scripture.  Special revelation of God achieved by proactively seeking God according to his terms as established in scripture is the most concrete method I know to verify this.

Biblical scripture affirms only one God expressed in a trinity of coeternal,coequal persons in Father, Son and Spirit.  

There is no comparison between the one and only God of the bible nor is there any similar means whatsoever to verify any invented gods such as Zeus, Horus, Mithra, Osirus or demonically-inspired gods such as Allah, Shiva, Vishnu.  It's tougher to toss out the demonically-inspired gods because the enemy of Christ (who is also the leader of this world) empowers these fictions via demonic "miracles" and other such tactics of spiritual warfare that cause people to suppress God while simultaneously convincing  them that the demonic world (which stands opposed to Christ) absolutely does not exist.  

It's only through Christ Jesus that the reality of both the light and dark is made real for folks and verifies scripture and confirms the testimony of believers.

Experiencing the righteous, loving, powerful, peaceful presence of the Holy Spirit can quickly put to rest many issues and objections.......folks refuse to surrender to the will of God though.   I can't help them.

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #533 on: May 08, 2015, 10:14:38 AM »
It's not necessarily a statement of logic, just the truth of scripture understood specifically by believers born again in Christ.

How can I verify this?  The life changing work of Christ in my life coupled with the tangible presence and experience of the Holy Spirit.  Validates the essence of salvific scripture.  Special revelation of God achieved by proactively seeking God according to his terms as established in scripture is the most concrete method I know to verify this.

Biblical scripture affirms only one God expressed in a trinity of coeternal,coequal persons in Father, Son and Spirit.  

There is no comparison between the one and only God of the bible nor is there any similar means whatsoever to verify any invented gods such as Zeus, Horus, Mithra, Osirus or demonically-inspired gods such as Allah, Shiva, Vishnu.  It's tougher to toss out the demonically-inspired gods because the enemy of Christ (who is also the leader of this world) empowers these fictions via demonic "miracles" and other such tactics of spiritual warfare that cause people to suppress God while simultaneously convincing  them that the demonic world (which stands opposed to Christ) absolutely does not exist.  

It's only through Christ Jesus that the reality of both the light and dark is made real for folks and verifies scripture and confirms the testimony of believers.

Experiencing the righteous, loving, powerful, peaceful presence of the Holy Spirit can quickly put to rest many issues and objections.......folks refuse to surrender to the will of God though.   I can't help them.

How do you detect god? what is the evidence that it's god? it's a feeling? or it's good things happening in your life?

You realize that this is a completely subjective method correct? A muslim may say the same thing, what would you say in response to that?

I am actually curious

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #534 on: May 08, 2015, 11:05:43 AM »
How do you detect god?

So how do I detect God and know that it is God I'm experiencing?  

First, as a new believer my perceptions about things of this world almost instantly changed when I gave my life to Christ.  Many of my desires changed.   My feelings towards others changed.  I was drawn to his word and desired to learn all I could about him.  So from within the core of me I was changed without any effort on my part.  That was definite evidence that the promises of God were being fulfilled in me.

Second, during moments of private prayer, private worship, public worship, debate and discussion, durings periods of tribulation and strife the presence of the Holy Spirit of the Lord will literally envelop me.  I can feel his presence in both light touches and undeniable, overwhelming, enveloping sensations of warmth, tingling, peace, righteousness and love.

what is the evidence that it's god? it's a feeling? or it's good things happening in your life?

The first evidence that it's God is the peace, righteousness and love that I experience.  The second evidence is the presence of demonic darkness that also confronts believers.  Some experience that darkness far greater than others.  I myself have experienced that demonic darkness in powerful ways.  It's only when I called upon the name of Lord that the darkness fled and that warm, tingling, overwhelming, enveloping peace, grace, mercy, righteousness and love was replaced.   Experiencing the definite contrast between demonic darkness and the light of God has made a world of difference.  And to experience that darkness be lifted and replaced with light in almost an instant is undeniable.

Yes, it's absolutely a feeling.  

Good things happening in my life?    In a lot of ways my life is far more difficult now as a definite believer than before when I wasn't aligned with Christ.  Although I give thanks for those trials because they're opportunities for me to draw closer and closer to my Lord and Savior.  Good things in my life aren't necessarily about bad things going away or lessening, but about how I perceive the trials and how I am able to work through them like never before with Christ in my life.  
 

You realize that this is a completely subjective method correct?

It's subjective because a relation with Christ is personal.  There isn't a universal experience with God, but there certainly are similarities in experiences that others believers will absolutely affirm.  For example, others believers have experienced sweet aromas when in the presence of the Holy Spirit.  I have not experienced that yet in my life.  I have experienced the definite contrast between light and darkness that others believers have not.  Yet, the warmth and love and tingling and tangible enveloping presence of the Lord is a common theme.

A muslim may say the same thing, what would you say in response to that?  I am actually curious

As I noted before the Islamic god in Allah is a demonically-inspired, fictitious god of their prophet Muhammad.  He was deceived by Satanic influence.  

Now, I wouldn't share that sentiment with a Muslim from the get go.  I would share my faith.  I would share the gospel.  It would not be a short process nor is there a universal script for engaging in such a fashion.  The main thing to remember is that the Muslim folks in the world are also precious in the sight of the Lord so it's up to believers in Christ to fully represent Christ and help Muslims understand why their objections are unfounded and why Jesus Christ of biblical scripture is God.  It's presented on a case-by-case basis unfortunately.

You must expect a ton of resistance and be willing to follow through.  Expect ridicule.  Expect mockery.  Expect to be patient and always represent Christ.  You want to get folks thinking and do so lovingly, but you must also present the truth of God's wrath and judgment.  It's not an easy task because many of these folks have devoted their entire life - since the first moment they were born - to Islam.



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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #535 on: May 08, 2015, 09:37:54 PM »
It's not necessarily a statement of logic, just the truth of scripture understood specifically by believers born again in Christ.

How can I verify this?  The life changing work of Christ in my life coupled with the tangible presence and experience of the Holy Spirit.  Validates the essence of salvific scripture.  Special revelation of God achieved by proactively seeking God according to his terms as established in scripture is the most concrete method I know to verify this.

Biblical scripture affirms only one God expressed in a trinity of coeternal,coequal persons in Father, Son and Spirit.  

"There is no comparison between the one and only God of the bible nor is there any similar means whatsoever to verify any invented gods such as Zeus, Horus, Mithra, Osirus or demonically-inspired gods such as Allah, Shiva, Vishnu.  It's tougher to toss out the demonically-inspired gods because the enemy of Christ (who is also the leader of this world) empowers these fictions via demonic "miracles" and other such tactics of spiritual warfare that cause people to suppress God while simultaneously convincing  them that the demonic world (which stands opposed to Christ) absolutely does not exist.  "

It's only through Christ Jesus that the reality of both the light and dark is made real for folks and verifies scripture and confirms the testimony of believers.

Experiencing the righteous, loving, powerful, peaceful presence of the Holy Spirit can quickly put to rest many issues and objections.......folks refuse to surrender to the will of God though.   I can't help them.

"There is no comparison between the one and only God of the bible nor is there any similar means whatsoever to verify any invented gods such as Zeus, Horus, Mithra, Osirus or demonically-inspired gods such as Allah, Shiva, Vishnu.  It's tougher to toss out the demonically-inspired gods because the enemy of Christ (who is also the leader of this world) empowers these fictions via demonic "miracles" and other such tactics of spiritual warfare that cause people to suppress God while simultaneously convincing  them that the demonic world (which stands opposed to Christ) absolutely does not exist.  

who can argue with that argument ?

avxo

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #536 on: May 09, 2015, 02:16:49 PM »
I've spent the last several years pleading with folks and letting them know that they can "meet the maker" in this life......I desperately desire for others to understand this!!  Come unto him now.....you don't want to meet him for the first time during his judgement.

No! You can't meet god in the same way you can meet the creator of a sculpture. First of all, to "meet" god requires that one accept that he exists; no such belief is required for an artist. Secondly, you never actually "meet" god in the sense that you meet the artist - this twisting of words is typical when theists try to debate. They'll use some word to describe their deity or have it interact but the caveat is that the word doesn't really have the common meaning of the term or is modified in a meaningless way (typically involving the use of the term "infinite"). Lastly, while the artist exists within the framework of nature and logic, god does not and the usual tools of congition and understanding don't apply.



It is our sin that introduced death, decay and disease upon the world.

No. That's what your particular interpretation of your grimoire of choice suggests. But none of that has a bearing on reality. Unless you can concretely and rationally establish your beliefs as facts without appealing to the supernatural, then stop making these grand proclamations.


Actually according to cosmology the expansion of the universe will kill us via way of dark, cold death (Lawrence Krauss affirms this).

If we don't kill ourselves off first. Or if a extinction-level event doesn't happen. Or if we are still earth-bound when our sun goes nova. Or... or... or...


Given that scientists view the human species as a cancer of sorts upon this planet [...]

You shouldn't generalize the fringe opinions of a few - like James Lovelock and Deepak Chopra - as representative of all scientists. Science is about rational examination of facts, the development of theories to explain those facts and allow inferences to be drawn and then tested. No evidence for the Gaia hypothesis has ever been presented and the general scientific consensus is that it is bullshit.

You may as well argue that snake-handling is a core Christian belief. After all, some nutjobs practice it.

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #537 on: May 11, 2015, 06:44:55 AM »
No! You can't meet god in the same way you can meet the creator of a sculpture. First of all, to "meet" god requires that one accept that he exists; no such belief is required for an artist. Secondly, you never actually "meet" god in the sense that you meet the artist - this twisting of words is typical when theists try to debate. They'll use some word to describe their deity or have it interact but the caveat is that the word doesn't really have the common meaning of the term or is modified in a meaningless way (typically involving the use of the term "infinite"). Lastly, while the artist exists within the framework of nature and logic, god does not and the usual tools of congition and understanding don't apply.

Correct.  "Meeting God" or "entering into a relationship with God" or "coming to know God" is not the same as meeting a sculpture.  God's nature is divine and he is transcendent and infinite.  The sculpture's nature is human and he is part of this world and finite.  We must abide my God's terms as outlined in scripture in order to know his reality and that includes belief…..God’s in the business of believers.

Scripture and believers anthropomorphize God so that his nature is more relatable to folks, but that isn't a matter of deception.  Objecting to this notion and simply referrring to it as "theist's twisted words" is just a matter of convenience in an argument, but it doesn't negate anything nor does it make it true.

No. That's what your particular interpretation of your grimoire of choice suggests. But none of that has a bearing on reality. Unless you can concretely and rationally establish your beliefs as facts without appealing to the supernatural, then stop making these grand proclamations.

You can use terms such as “grimoire” if you choose.   Much like acclaimed atheist AronRa continually referring to the bible as “storybook” and God as “bigger than big, stronger than strong”.  Terms like that are used to annoy….unnecessary for me though.   You can just call refer to it as the bible because we both know what we’re talking about.

Well, yes, of course naturalism requires the elimination of the supernatural.   Certainly atheists, nonbelievers, agnostics, etc…want God removed from the equation.  Once you remove the providence of God you’ve essentially exited the Christian worldview and entered a newly created worldview from which it’s easier to argue from.   You can play in that world all day.   Although If you intend to discuss God then you must allow God to be God and engage the Christian worldview.  God don’t work at Burger King…..can’t have it your way.

If we don't kill ourselves off first. Or if a extinction-level event doesn't happen. Or if we are still earth-bound when our sun goes nova. Or... or... or...

Sure there are plenty of other theories.  I just refer to Lawrence Krauss given he’s beginning to replace Hitchens as one of the four “new atheists”.

You shouldn't generalize the fringe opinions of a few - like James Lovelock and Deepak Chopra - as representative of all scientists. Science is about rational examination of facts, the development of theories to explain those facts and allow inferences to be drawn and then tested. No evidence for the Gaia hypothesis has ever been presented and the general scientific consensus is that it is bullshit.

You may as well argue that snake-handling is a core Christian belief. After all, some nutjobs practice it.

Sorry wasn’t my intention.  As far as I’m concerned, feel free to refer to whichever scientific theories give you greatest warm fuzzies about the death of humanity.

Man of Steel

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #538 on: May 11, 2015, 06:54:56 AM »
"There is no comparison between the one and only God of the bible nor is there any similar means whatsoever to verify any invented gods such as Zeus, Horus, Mithra, Osirus or demonically-inspired gods such as Allah, Shiva, Vishnu.  It's tougher to toss out the demonically-inspired gods because the enemy of Christ (who is also the leader of this world) empowers these fictions via demonic "miracles" and other such tactics of spiritual warfare that cause people to suppress God while simultaneously convincing  them that the demonic world (which stands opposed to Christ) absolutely does not exist.  

who can argue with that argument ?

Here's a step-by-step on how most would respond:

1) Simply exclaim "Bull$*%t".
2) Call me a "brainwashed and delusional bibliotard".
3) Shift the topic to "Noah's ark" and ask how all the species of animals fit on it.
4) Pepper reply with a few "flying spaghetti monsters".

Now it isn't the only way to respond, but it's certainly a popular method....usually garners a couple of online high fives or "LOLs"!!

 ;)  Glad to help.

avxo

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #539 on: May 11, 2015, 09:59:09 AM »
Correct.  "Meeting God" or "entering into a relationship with God" or "coming to know God" is not the same as meeting a sculpture.  God's nature is divine and he is transcendent and infinite.  The sculpture's nature is human and he is part of this world and finite.  We must abide my God's terms as outlined in scripture in order to know his reality and that includes belief…..God’s in the business of believers.

No. He's not the in the business of belief. If your particular god exists and he's in a business, he's in the business of faith - that is belief in the absence of evidence. Some religious people take it further and believe contrary to evidence.



Scripture and believers anthropomorphize God so that his nature is more relatable to folks, but that isn't a matter of deception.  Objecting to this notion and simply referrring to it as "theist's twisted words" is just a matter of convenience in an argument, but it doesn't negate anything nor does it make it true.

Of course it's twisting words when "meet" is used in the context you used it. One can meet a person but one cannot meet your god. As for anthropomorphism: you use it to describe your god when it serves you and reject it when it doesn't.


You can use terms such as “grimoire” if you choose.   Much like acclaimed atheist AronRa continually referring to the bible as “storybook” and God as “bigger than big, stronger than strong”.  Terms like that are used to annoy….unnecessary for me though.   You can just call refer to it as the bible because we both know what we’re talking about.

No idea who "AronRa" is why he's acclaimed, but "grimoire" accurately reflects the bible's content in my view. Can you tell me how it's different to someone who doesn't accept the divine origin of the book but sees it as the collected writings of many, interpreted and reinterpreted over a millennia?


Well, yes, of course naturalism requires the elimination of the supernatural.

Naturalism doesn't require the elimination of the supernatural. In fact it says nothing more than "the supernatural isn't needed to explain our world."


Certainly atheists, nonbelievers, agnostics, etc…want God removed from the equation.

From which equation?


Once you remove the providence of God you’ve essentially exited the Christian worldview and entered a newly created worldview from which it’s easier to argue from.

The Christian worldview is not supported by facts and I think that it's silly for us to support such a worldview or to treat faith and logic as two sides of the same coin that allow us to gain a a concrete and verifiable understanding of our environment.

As for the non-Christian worldview being easier, I beg to differ. In your worldview, the answer is always "God!" and what could be easier than that? Why does the earth orbit the sun? God! Why is the sky blue? God! One needn't even finish a question: the answer is God!


You can play in that world all day.   Although If you intend to discuss God then you must allow God to be God and engage the Christian worldview.  God don’t work at Burger King…..can’t have it your way.

I don't need to accept God to argue that the Christian worldview is wrong. You're saying: "debate God all you want, but first believe he exists and accept all this stuff at face value." But if I do that what's there to talk about? Whether we're saved by faith, intercession or works? We're back to snake-biting...

Sure there are plenty of other theories.  I just refer to Lawrence Krauss given he’s beginning to replace Hitchens as one of the four “new atheists”.

No idea who he is, or what the four "new atheists" are. I'm not a dues-paying member of that particular club.


Sorry wasn’t my intention.  As far as I’m concerned, feel free to refer to whichever scientific theories give you greatest warm fuzzies about the death of humanity.

In what context?

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #540 on: May 13, 2015, 03:41:48 AM »
Tbombz, have you ever prayed to God and asked him what propelled you to dress up in a bunny costume?  Did god reveal himself with an answer?

Your friend,

SF1900
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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #541 on: May 13, 2015, 07:18:10 AM »
No. He's not the in the business of belief. If your particular god exists and he's in a business, he's in the business of faith - that is belief in the absence of evidence. Some religious people take it further and believe contrary to evidence.

If I had said “God is in the business of the faithful” you probably would’ve said that isn’t correct either.   From what I’ve experienced, all that most care about is simply finding a way to object to whatever the theist posts.

Of course it's twisting words when "meet" is used in the context you used it.

It’s clear you grasp the language.  Sure I could’ve selected another term and you would’ve understood that as well.  I have "faith" in the comprehension abilities of the reader.

Still, arguing from a “word game” platform isn’t negating anything I’ve said.  

One can meet a person but one cannot meet your god.

And how is it that you know that?  

Clearly you grasp that the use of the word "meet" is used in different contexts.....one "meet" is about interacting with human beings in the natural world and one "meet" is about interacting with the supernatural God.  Could I have used another word to convey the same idea?  Sure.  You understood this though.

I try now to keep my language more simplistic with less jargon.

As for anthropomorphism: you use it to describe your god when it serves you and reject it when it doesn't.

Some scripture is anthropomorphic and some isn’t.   You accuse me of cherry picking.   Please provide me some examples.

No idea who "AronRa" is why he's acclaimed, but "grimoire" accurately reflects the bible's content in my view. Can you tell me how it's different to someone who doesn't accept the divine origin of the book but sees it as the collected writings of many, interpreted and reinterpreted over a millennia?

How is what different exactly?  The bible's content?  Sorry, need more clarification.  I can assure you the bible isn't the "Necronomicon" or Hogwart's "Defense Against the Dark Arts" textbook.

Naturalism doesn't require the elimination of the supernatural. In fact it says nothing more than "the supernatural isn't needed to explain our world."

I’m fine with how you define it.  Include or exclude elimination.....no supernatural is the gist.  Again that's clear.

From which equation?

Figure of speech.

The Christian worldview is not supported by facts and I think that it's silly for us to support such a worldview or to treat faith and logic as two sides of the same coin that allow us to gain a a concrete and verifiable understanding of our environment.

There are plenty of facts and a huge body of evidence to support Christianity.  You're engaging some of that evidence right now.  Atheists simply reject it.   Again, their rejection doesn’t negate anything.....it's just a choice.

Why would you use Christian theology to understand the natural environment?  Wouldn’t you use theology to understand the supernatural (God) and scientific methods to understand the natural?  Of course with the atheist caveat being that there is no supernatural.  

As for the non-Christian worldview being easier, I beg to differ. In your worldview, the answer is always "God!" and what could be easier than that? Why does the earth orbit the sun? God! Why is the sky blue? God! One needn't even finish a question: the answer is God!

This is silly.   In your worldview, the answer is always "Science!" and what could be easier than that? Why does the earth orbit the sun? Science! Why is the sky blue? Science! One needn't even finish a question: the answer is Science!

Comments like this are just meant to annoy.  Clearly this is not how I respond to things and it's not how you respond either.

I don't need to accept God to argue that the Christian worldview is wrong. You're saying: "debate God all you want, but first believe he exists and accept all this stuff at face value." But if I do that what's there to talk about? Whether we're saved by faith, intercession or works? We're back to snake-biting...

If you want to know the reality of God you must proactively approach him as outlined in scripture.    Yes, “faith and belief” are a part of that.  Folks that truly desire to know God in their lives follow through and seek him on his terms.....it's about humility and surrender.  

In what context?

Whichever context you feel best supports your preferred scientific theories about this particular topic.  I'm not married to a particular theory.....sun exploding, universe expanding, asteroid hitting earth, massive earthquake, super-flu, worldwide outbreak of F-5 sharknados, etc.....all could theoretically wipe out humanity.  

King Shizzo

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #542 on: May 13, 2015, 02:20:05 PM »
You got what you wanted, MOS

This is a good discussion thread.

Man of Steel

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #543 on: May 13, 2015, 02:31:05 PM »
You got what you wanted, MOS

This is a good discussion thread.

You know the boards are dull when folks are slumming it on the Religion board.   :)

King Shizzo

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #544 on: May 13, 2015, 02:48:54 PM »
You know the boards are dull when folks are slumming it on the Religion board.   :)
Yes, the overall thread quality is severely lacking on the G&O now.

Radical Plato

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #545 on: May 13, 2015, 06:12:02 PM »
Big bang Religion and evolution creationsim is a bunch of garbage that comes from the human desire to know shit but the fact is they dont know shit, all these dumbass scientistreligious zealots have is a bunch of theoriesfictional stories that they keep changing every month with a bunch of dumbfucks following behind them eating up their stupid words.
FIXED
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SF1900

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #546 on: May 13, 2015, 07:06:56 PM »
Yes, the overall thread quality is always severely lacking in the MMA on the G&O now.

Fixed
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avxo

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #547 on: May 13, 2015, 08:38:44 PM »
If I had said “God is in the business of the faithful” you probably would’ve said that isn’t correct either.   From what I’ve experienced, all that most care about is simply finding a way to object to whatever the theist posts.

Deities - regardless of flavor - aren't in business. The people behind most of them, on the other hand, are: the business of selling fiction.


It’s clear you grasp the language.  Sure I could’ve selected another term and you would’ve understood that as well.  I have "faith" in the comprehension abilities of the reader.

Of course I grasp it, but the problem is that by using such "common" terms confusion sets is. Can one meet God? What about know him? Can one go out for a beer with God? Which words sorta-kinda apply and which don't?


And how is it that you know that?

Because - even if viewed in the light most positive to your position - the Christian God is not a physical person.


Clearly you grasp that use of the word "meet" is used for different contexts.....one "meet" is about interacting with human beings in the natural world and one "meet" is about interacting with the supernatural God.

The problem is that you instigated confusion when you started comparing those two contexts, which you agree are different, by comparing meeting a person to meeting God.


Some scripture is anthropomorphic and some isn’t.   You accuse me of cherry picking.   Please provide me some examples.

I'm not accusing you, personally. I'm accusing the Bible.


How what is different exactly?  Sorry, need more clarification.

How is your particular book is different to a non-believer from, say, the Qur'an, or some vedic writings. The answer is it isn't.

You don't believe in Islam and you reject the Qur'an. I don't believe in Islam or Christianity and I reject both the Qur'an and the Bible. I called the bible a "grimoire" which literally means "a book of magic spells and invocations." To someone who doesn't believe it's divinely inspired, is it not a book of magic spells and invocations? There's detailed descriptions of how to sacrifice animals to God to curry favor, or how to pray for a deity to intercede. Again, if that's not magic spells and incantations what is it?


There are plenty of facts and a huge body of evidence to support Christianity.   Atheists simply reject it.   Again, their rejection doesn’t negate anything.

Please list three facts which support Christianity. Do note that per the definition, a fact is something that is, essentially, indisputable.


Why would you use Christian theology to understand the natural environment?  Wouldn’t you use theology to understand the supernatural (God) and scientific methods to understand the natural?  Of course with the atheist caveat being that there is no supernatural.

So, you assert that the natural environment is outside the purview of Christianity then?


This is silly.   In your worldview, the answer is always "Science!" and what could be easier than that? Why does the earth orbit the sun? Science! Why is the sky blue? Science! One needn't even finish a question: the answer is Science!

No, you're wrong. In my worldview, the answer is: "Well, the theory I have is <W>, supported by <X> and <Y> and predicting <Z>. Let's see if we can observe <Z>." Before that, my answer is "Huh, I don't know. Let's find out." And  I base that on one simple maxim: that we live in a world that can be understood by using logic and our rational faculity.

The difference between the answers "God!" and "Science!" is that one requires blind faith in the absence evidence while the other reasoned examination of presented evidence. The difference is that "God!" is not testable of falsifiable, whereas "Science!" is. Here, I'll give you an example: why do we fall back down to the earth after we jump?

God answer: "Because God has only allowed birds to fly."

Science answer: "Because the earth exerts a force on you that is directly proportional to the product of your two masses and inversely proportional to the square of the distance between them."

One answer is meaningless - it answers nothing and couldn't be tested. The other provides useful information that can be tested and if found to be incorrect, improved.


Comments like this are just meant to annoy.  Clearly this is not how I respond to things and it's not how you respond either.

Of course it's not how people generally respond. It's a gross simplification. But people do respond along those lines, even if not that simplistically.


If you want to know the reality of God you must proactively approach him as outlined in scripture.    Yes, “faith and belief” are a part of that.  Folks that truly desire to know God in their lives follow through and seek him on his terms.....it's about humility and surrender.

There's an invisible flying unicorn in my back yard - a unicorn that was the source of all creation as outlined in his scripture. Are you willing to proactively approach that invisible flying unicorn as outlined in the scripture? If not, why not?

    
Whichever context you feel best supports your preferred scientific theories about this particular topic.  I'm not married to a particular theory.....sun exploding, universe expanding, asteroid hitting earth, super-flu, etc.....all could theoretically wipe out humanity.

Well, there's no arguing that our sun will go nova. So, let's assume that humans will remain a one planet species and survive long enough for Sol to become a red giant. Let's talk...

tbombz

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #548 on: May 30, 2015, 12:42:56 AM »
WHALE EVOLUTION





 ;D

Davidtheman100

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #549 on: June 14, 2015, 10:43:13 AM »
People have to understand life is meaningless...death is the end for everyone..Even conqueror's die like dogs, who's going to remember Alexander the Great in 500,000 years?...Our lives are without any meaning and the signs are all around us....We can travel around our blue marble in 3 days, 1/2 if you use military technology.Earth is one quintillionth the size of the largest star in the known universe....Average people are forgotten completely 50 years after their death... etc etc

Just accept it, Biblical fairy tales will only make you feel better, nothing else..  :-\ :'( ;)