Author Topic: Arnold VS Mentzer: The Definitive Thread  (Read 34574 times)

mossel

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Re: Arnold VS Mentzer: The Definitive Thread
« Reply #50 on: January 25, 2010, 01:16:40 AM »
HIT - just ask Dorian

Pecs

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Re: Arnold VS Mentzer: The Definitive Thread
« Reply #51 on: January 25, 2010, 01:22:40 AM »
by the way, why did mentzer keep saying he was robbed and held it against arnold. Mentzer wasn't even in the top 3. He might have a case if he was 2nd in 1980. he shouldn't hold it against arnold.

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Re: Arnold VS Mentzer: The Definitive Thread
« Reply #52 on: January 25, 2010, 02:32:15 AM »
Mentzer had relatively more mass on his frame. In 1980 Arnold had a BMI of 30.6 and Mike 34.1 which is 11% more than Arnold.
Arnold had a larger frame & more charisma which was to his advantage.
I've seen more shrunken Arnold pics than Menzer pics.

So my conclusion: HIT works! It's not perfect but more effective than the crazy volume shit on the long term, esp for naturals and people with jobs.

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Re: Arnold VS Mentzer: The Definitive Thread
« Reply #53 on: January 25, 2010, 02:32:53 AM »
Arnold had no legs in 1980

He never had

MORTALCOIL

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Re: Arnold VS Mentzer: The Definitive Thread
« Reply #54 on: January 25, 2010, 02:35:35 AM »
Mentzer has relatively more mass on his frame. In 1980 Arnold had a BMI of 30.6 and Mike 34.1 which is 11% more than Arnold.
Arnold had a larger frame & more charisma which was to his advantage.
I've seen more shrunken Arnold pics than Menzer pics.

So my conclusion: HIT works! It's not perfect but more effective than the crazy volume shit on the long term, esp for naturals and people with jobs.

And Mentzer's density was unrivaled at the time. Arnold's density was never that great (except maybe his back). But at the time, that was not such an important standard.

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Re: Arnold VS Mentzer: The Definitive Thread
« Reply #55 on: January 25, 2010, 02:47:17 AM »
LOL, it's remarkable to notice Arnold's BMI wasn't that impressive compared with other men those days

Table with BMI-Values of Pro IFBB Bodybuilders

Year - Name - Length (cm) - Weight(kg) - BMI - Length(ft) - Weight (lbs)
1950   Steve Reeves   185   97   28.3   6'1"   213
1966   Larry Scott   170   93   32.2   5'6"   205
1967   Dave Draper   180   102   31.5   5'10"   224
1971   Bill Pearl   175   100   32.7   5'8"   220
1973   Reg Park   187   102   29.2   6'1"   224
1975   Serge Nubret   180   96   29.6   5'10"   211
1975   Jim Morris   178   98   30.9   5'10"   216
1978   Kalman Szkalak   178   95   30.0   5'10"   209
1980   Arnold Schwarzenegger    187   107   30.6   6'1"   235
1980   Mike Mentzer   173   102   34.1   5'8"   224
1981   Franco Columbu   165   84   30.9   5'4"   185
1981   Ken Waller   183   104   31.1   6'0"   229
1982   Casey Viator   178   109   34.4   5'10"   240
1982   Dennis Tinerino   183   100   29.9   6'0"   220
1983   Frank Zane   175   84   27.4   5'8"   185
1983   Ed Corney   170   88   30.4   5'6"   194
1984   Chris Dickerson   170   86   29.8   5'6"   189
1984   Bill Grant   175   89   29.1   5'8"   196
1984   Boyer Coe   170   98   33.9   5'6"   216
1985   Sergio Oliva   178   109   34.4   5'10"   240
1985   Mohamed Makkawy   160   72   28.1   5'2"   158
1985   Danny Padilla   157   79   32.0   5'1"   174
1986   Jusup Wilkosz   185   115   33.6   6'0"   253
1988   Berry Demey   185   102   29.8   6'0"   224
1988   Phil Hill   173   102   34.1   5'8"   224
1988   Scott Wilson   178   96   30.3   5'10"   211
1989   Bertil Fox   178   107   33.8   5'10"   235
1990   Albert Beckles   170   99   34.3   5'6"   218
1990   Mike Christian   185   109   31.8   6'0"   240
1991   Lee Haney   180   112   34.6   5'10"   246
1991   Bob Paris   180   104   32.1   5'10"   229
1991   Rich Gaspari   173   102   34.1   5'8"   224
1992   Mohammed Benaziza   160   85   33.2   5'2"   187
1993   Lee Labrada   167   84   30.1   5'5"   185
1993   Lou Ferrigno   195   125   32.9   6'4"   275
1993   Flavio Baccianini   147   65   30.1   4'9"   143
1993   Ron Love   175   88   28.7   5'8"   194
1994   Samir Bannout   172   90   30.4   5'7"   198
1994   Porter Cottrell   168   88   31.2   5'6"   194
1995   Vince Taylor   175   104   34.0   5'8"   229
1995   Paul Demayo   178   114   36.0   5'10"   251
1995   Sonny Schmidt   178   109   34.4   5'10"   240
1995   Ian Harrison   178   117   36.9   5'10"   257
1996   Roland Cziurlock   173   102   34.1   5'8"   224
1997   Charles Clairmonte   180   112   34.6   5'10"   246
1997   Dorian Yates   178   120   37.9   5'10"   264
1997   Michael Francois   173   107   35.8   5'8"   235
1998   Jean Pierre Fux   180   117   36.1   5'10"   257
1998   Aaron Baker   173   107   35.8   5'8"   235
1999   Milos Sarcev   180   109   33.6   5'10"   240
1999   Paul Dillett   185   129   37.7   6'0"   284
2001   Shawn Ray   170   93   32.2   5'6"   205
2001   Mike Matarazzo   178   112   35.3   5'10"   246
2002   Flex Wheeler   175   104   34.0   5'8"   229
2002   Ernie Taylor   173   106   35.4   5'8"   233
2002   Craig Titus   173   110   36.8   5'8"   242
2002   Bob Cicherillo   183   109   32.5   6'0"   240
2003   Kevin Levrone   176   116   37.4   5'9"   255
2003   Lee Priest   162   103   39.2   5'3"   227
2003   Art Atwood   180   111   34.3   5'10"   244
2003   Nasser El Sonbaty   180   127   39.2   5'10"   279
2003   King Kamali   178   113   35.7   5'10"   249
2004   Darrem Charles   173   107   35.8   5'8"   235
2006   Chris Cormier   178   113   35.7   5'10"   249
2006   Gunter Schlierkamp   185   135   39.4   6'0"   297
2006   Dennis James   173   117   39.1   5'8"   257
2007   Ronnie Coleman   180   134   41.4   5'10"   295
2007   Jay Cutler   175   124   40.5   5'8"   273
2007   Victor Martinez   178   110   34.7   5'10"   242
2007   Dexter Jackson   167   100   35.9   5'5"   220
2007   Markus Rühl   178   130   41.0   5'10"   286

jwb

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Re: Arnold VS Mentzer: The Definitive Thread
« Reply #56 on: January 25, 2010, 02:59:01 AM »
who gives a fuck about BMI?

arnold had pecs, mike had pancakes end of story.

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Re: Arnold VS Mentzer: The Definitive Thread
« Reply #57 on: January 25, 2010, 03:07:03 AM »
who gives a fuck about BMI?

Somebody who for some reason can't post pics to support his argument.

Meso_z

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Re: Arnold VS Mentzer: The Definitive Thread
« Reply #58 on: January 25, 2010, 03:08:26 AM »
FRIENDLY REMINDER - BODYBUILDING IS NOT A SPORT

ok "jimmyjam"  ::) ::) ::)


DroppingPlates

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Re: Arnold VS Mentzer: The Definitive Thread
« Reply #59 on: January 25, 2010, 03:13:28 AM »
who gives a fuck about BMI?

arnold had pecs, mike had pancakes end of story.

BMI says a lot about the effectiveness of a training method & muscle density.

Yeah Mike's pecs weren't the ultimate but his overall proportions were way better than Arnold. Arnold had weak tri's compared with his bi's, had no thick legs compared with his upperbody, had a wide waist, his chest overpowered his delts and he had only serious conditioning in 74-75.

Arnold was and is way overhyped because of his large frame, charisma and his careers outside the bbing area.

DroppingPlates

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Re: Arnold VS Mentzer: The Definitive Thread
« Reply #60 on: January 25, 2010, 03:15:35 AM »
Somebody who for some reason can't post pics to support his argument.

Show me Klaus doing those preacher curls, you lamer

WillGrant

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Re: Arnold VS Mentzer: The Definitive Thread
« Reply #61 on: January 25, 2010, 03:24:13 AM »

#1 Klaus fan

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Re: Arnold VS Mentzer: The Definitive Thread
« Reply #62 on: January 25, 2010, 03:24:42 AM »
Show me Klaus doing those preacher curls, you lamer

Are you doubting the power of Klaus?  :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

DroppingPlates

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Re: Arnold VS Mentzer: The Definitive Thread
« Reply #63 on: January 25, 2010, 03:40:30 AM »
Are you doubting the power of Klaus?  :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

STFU or post pics

jwb

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Re: Arnold VS Mentzer: The Definitive Thread
« Reply #64 on: January 25, 2010, 03:46:55 AM »
mike looked better winning the universe and america than in 1980...

DroppingPlates

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Re: Arnold VS Mentzer: The Definitive Thread
« Reply #65 on: January 25, 2010, 03:57:09 AM »
mike looked better winning the universe and america than in 1980...

Agree, he looked awesome in his '78 Uni win. WTF happen to him between 78-80 ???

jwb

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Re: Arnold VS Mentzer: The Definitive Thread
« Reply #66 on: January 25, 2010, 04:14:15 AM »
Agree, he looked awesome in his '78 Uni win. WTF happen to him between 78-80 ???
amphetamine abuse

jprc10

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Re: Arnold VS Mentzer: The Definitive Thread
« Reply #67 on: January 25, 2010, 08:24:12 AM »
Here is a picture to give an idea of the difference in muscle density between Arnold and Mike:


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Re: Arnold VS Mentzer: The Definitive Thread
« Reply #68 on: January 25, 2010, 08:27:40 AM »
Here is a picture to give an idea of the difference in muscle density between Arnold and Mike:



Not much use for muscle density if you are a tiny tit.

jprc10

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Re: Arnold VS Mentzer: The Definitive Thread
« Reply #69 on: January 25, 2010, 08:37:15 AM »
I'm ready to bring the Arnold VS Mike Mentzer (Volume Training VS HIT) to a conclusion for once and for all.  I hereby go on record saying that Arnold is The Man, that Volume Training is the best way to go, and Mike Mentzer was a weirdo.  End of story.

As far as Arnold vs Mike, of course Arnold was the bodybuilder with the most success, 7 time Mr Olympia, etc. Also, in his prime he had a better physique than Mike.
This has absolutely nothing to do with which training method (Volume vs HIT) is better. Too many variables and differences between Arnold and Mike to conclude that Volume is better simply because Arnold had the better body.
In my opinion, HIT is the best training method (Jones' HIT or Dorian's HIT, not Heavy Duty) because its the training that gave me best results. Some people say volume is better because it gave them the best results, so to each their own.
One thing is for sure: instead of worrying about whether HIT is better or Volume is better, just train as hard as possible, with the maximum intensity and adjust volume according to your own individual recovery ability and frequency.

Palpatine Q

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Re: Arnold VS Mentzer: The Definitive Thread
« Reply #70 on: January 25, 2010, 08:37:32 AM »
Mike-no-pecs-Mentzer

even a 180lb Zane has thicker pecs

HaHaHaHa....yes.

Arnold owned Mentzer and told him  "you have small pecs and a fat stomach!!"

Arnold was a true Getbigger, Mentzer never recovered.

jprc10

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Re: Arnold VS Mentzer: The Definitive Thread
« Reply #71 on: January 25, 2010, 08:40:51 AM »
;D

Arnold owns

I thought so too by looking at pictures form that show, but after watching a video I changed my mind.
Firstly, Mentzer deserved higher than 5th for sure, at least higher than Zane.
Did he deserve to beat Arnold? I'm not sure.

jprc10

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Re: Arnold VS Mentzer: The Definitive Thread
« Reply #72 on: January 25, 2010, 08:54:23 AM »
As far as Arnold vs Mike, of course Arnold was the bodybuilder with the most success, 7 time Mr Olympia, etc. Also, in his prime he had a better physique than Mike.
This has absolutely nothing to do with which training method (Volume vs HIT) is better. Too many variables and differences between Arnold and Mike to conclude that Volume is better simply because Arnold had the better body.
In my opinion, HIT is the best training method (Jones' HIT or Dorian's HIT, not Heavy Duty) because its the training that gave me best results. Some people say volume is better because it gave them the best results, so to each their own.
One thing is for sure: instead of worrying about whether HIT is better or Volume is better, just train as hard as possible, with the maximum intensity and adjust volume according to your own individual recovery ability and frequency.


On the other hand, there is something that I forgot to add: maybe the effectiveness or superiority of either training method could be analyzed by observing results on the same individual. The best example for this? Sergio Oliva.
Remember, he trained volume for years and had a great physique, but then remember when he was trained by Arthur Jones, he got into his biggest and best ever. Then he went back to volume and never achieved the same again.
I won't say that this example is an absolute proof that HIT is better, but its something interesting to think about.

Natural Man

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Re: Arnold VS Mentzer: The Definitive Thread
« Reply #73 on: January 25, 2010, 09:08:02 AM »
if only some of you morons trained their brains as often as they hammer they poor muscles...

PJim

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Re: Arnold VS Mentzer: The Definitive Thread
« Reply #74 on: January 25, 2010, 10:22:43 AM »
if only some of you morons trained their brains as often as they hammer they poor muscles...

Exactly. This thread comes from the same person who thinks that by hitting each muscle group 3 times a week they will end up looking like Arnold...