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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: El Diablo Blanco on October 16, 2014, 01:31:07 PM

Title: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: El Diablo Blanco on October 16, 2014, 01:31:07 PM
I used to be one of those.  The team would lose and my week would be ruined, wore the team's colors, read and watched everything about them then I grew up, met a few NFLers at the gym who cared more about money than they did if their team wins or loses and wondered why the fuck do I care so much about these guys who don't give a shit themselves?

I especially don't get why people who live and were raised in a certain city get obsessed with another city's team.  I understand rooting for your home team but why root for someone elses?  People take this shit way too seriously.  I have read a boatload of stories of fans getting shot, stabbed, beaten up etc.. at games.  Why are people so fucking stupid?  I know a guy who bought a million dollar home to paint the entire inside in Yellow and Black because he's a steelers fan.  The guy's an idiot.  Who does this shit?

Ever see the end of the game when a team that gets beat is laughing it up with the opposing team?  Fans are crying and acting like fools and the players just move on and don't give a fuck.  They go back, change into their Tom Ford suits, dive their ferraris back to their 10,000 sqft pads and have top 10 models suck them off while the average Joe beats his kids and wife because "his" team lost.

just don't get it.
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: MikMaq on October 16, 2014, 01:37:24 PM
Some people cannot separate fiction from reality.

That being said the reality is your gonna die  relatively soon.

It's important to find distractions.
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: liquid_c on October 16, 2014, 01:40:37 PM
Because some people live their lives through their team.  When their team is winning, they feel they are winning even though they have absolutely nothing to do with it.
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: SF1900 on October 16, 2014, 01:41:15 PM
It is very baffling to me. I never understood the appeal. People go crazy. I mean, its not even their victory. Its someone elses.

I think it could better be chalked up to a group experience. Most people go crazy for sports when they are in a group with others. Read up on the term, "emotional contagion." It will help you better understand group dynamics and the appeal of sports.
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: thebrink on October 16, 2014, 01:48:29 PM
It is very baffling to me. I never understood the appeal. People go crazy. I mean, its not even their victory. Its someone elses.

I think it could better be chalked up to a group experience. Most people go crazy for sports when they are in a group with others. Read up on the term, "emotional contagion." It will help you better understand group dynamics and the appeal of sports.

Especially when its a team nowhere near their geographical area. Thats what really baffles me.

Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: The True Adonis on October 16, 2014, 01:53:58 PM
Have you not read my  National Joe Six Pack Closeted Man Love Day thread or any of my numerous thoughts on this subject, particularly the homo-erotic connections?

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=261276.0
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: MikMaq on October 16, 2014, 01:57:39 PM
Have you not read my  National Joe Six Pack Closeted Man Love Day thread or any of my numerous thoughts on this subject, particularly the homo-erotic connections?

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=261276.0
Your such a pretentious nob, your a walking stereotype of someone with no connection to real life experiences.

You come clean on your mental state, your either autistic, Schizoid, Psychopathic or something.

You are fucking up your own connection to reality with your pretentious bullshit.
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: James28 on October 16, 2014, 01:59:55 PM
Never gave a shit. It baffled me even as a 10 year old.

I am however a 'fan' of companies and how they do business.
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: MikMaq on October 16, 2014, 02:01:07 PM
Because some people live their lives through their team.  When their team is winning, they feel they are winning even though they have absolutely nothing to do with it.
If your human you are losing, everyone gets old and dies, this is the trap of being narcissitic, no matter how good you actually are, at some point you will snort the dirt.
Especially when its a team nowhere near their geographical area. Thats what really baffles me.


Meh I live in a place where attention is split between 3 nhl teams(Bruins,Habs,Shitsuckers).
 
I find it's way better because it's tied into family history.

My dad's generatio loves the shit suckers, Grandfathers the habs because that was the place to be back then, and alot of families a bit older love the bruins.
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: tom joad on October 16, 2014, 02:09:52 PM
what if a kid went to a lot of sporting events with his old man (say Red Sox games) and their bond grew stronger because of attending (or watching or listening to) baseball games together and they've got nothing but fond memories of rooting for the same team thru the ups and the downs, year after year ... and then "the kid" wants to keep that magical father-son connection going forever and so when he becomes a dad himself he takes his kid to his first ballgame etc. ... so then you'll have generation after generation of father-son fans down at Fenway Park (for example) staring out at the same ol' Green Monster just like their descendants before them.
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: Mr Anabolic on October 16, 2014, 02:11:59 PM
Simple answer... because society conditions them to.

I never understood it at all.

So many more things to learn and do in life than waste time watching sports.
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: SF1900 on October 16, 2014, 02:14:45 PM
what if a kid went to a lot of sporting events with his old man (say Red Sox games) and their bond grew stronger because of attending (or watching or listening to) baseball games together and they've got nothing but fond memories of rooting for the same team thru the ups and the downs, year after year ... and then "the kid" wants to keep that magical father-son connection going forever and so when he becomes a dad himself he takes his kid to his first ballgame etc. ... so then you'll have generation after generation of father-son fans down at Fenway Park (for example) staring out at the Green Monster just like their descendants before them.

That's in a perfect world. Usually its a bunch of drunk, rowdy men causing trouble.
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: The True Adonis on October 16, 2014, 02:15:28 PM
what if a kid went to a lot of sporting events with his old man (say Red Sox games) and their bond grew stronger because of attending (or watching or listening to) baseball games together and they've got nothing but fond memories of rooting for the same team thru the ups and the downs, year after year ... and then "the kid" wants to keep that magical father-son connection going forever and so when he becomes a dad himself he takes his kid to his first ballgame etc. ... so then you'll have generation after generation of father-son fans down at Fenway Park (for example) staring out at the Green Monster just like their descendants before them.
Let me guess, the father ends up getting a terminal illness and the son flies in from his job as a corporate CEO and recalls his childhood.  They take dad to one last game and he has the time of his life.  A few weeks later he is on his death bead, barely able to speak when he motions his son to come over.  He whispers in his son`s ear, "Son, Babe Ruth was your father and I am just a guy that tried to get in your pants all these years".  Then he dies.

We all have seen that movie before Mr. Joad.  Its cute, but its never like it is in the movies.
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: MikMaq on October 16, 2014, 02:16:14 PM

So many more things to learn and do in life than waste time watching sports.
Like what, serious question?
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: tom joad on October 16, 2014, 02:21:51 PM
We all have seen that movie before Mr. Joad.  Its cute, but its never like it is in the movies.

well, it might not be the norm today, but the "father-son" connection thing is how it's worked for me ... (not with the Red Sox tho.)
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: Nails on October 16, 2014, 02:24:29 PM
(http://pixel.nymag.com/imgs/daily/intelligencer/2014/07/08/world-cup-gifs/world-cup-crying-woman.w560.h312.2x.gif)
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: El Diablo Blanco on October 16, 2014, 02:29:19 PM
what if a kid went to a lot of sporting events with his old man (say Red Sox games) and their bond grew stronger because of attending (or watching or listening to) baseball games together and they've got nothing but fond memories of rooting for the same team thru the ups and the downs, year after year ... and then "the kid" wants to keep that magical father-son connection going forever and so when he becomes a dad himself he takes his kid to his first ballgame etc. ... so then you'll have generation after generation of father-son fans down at Fenway Park (for example) staring out at the Green Monster just like their descendants before them.

Rooting and obsession are two different things. Nothing wrong when you support your city's team but the obsessive part is odd.  Wearing a jersey with another man's name on it.  Most sports obsessive fan's would cheer if their favorite player was fucking their wives.  Some odd subserviant behavior.
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: King Shizzo on October 16, 2014, 02:34:12 PM
You either like sports or you don't.

I personally do not know how a red-blooded male would not like sports.

Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: calfzilla on October 16, 2014, 02:51:58 PM
I root for my team but when they lose I just remind myself they are just rich spoiled assholes who don't give a shit about me and live great lives.
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: Pet shop boys on October 16, 2014, 04:52:23 PM
I used to be one of those.  The team would lose and my week would be ruined, wore the team's colors, read and watched everything about them then I grew up, met a few NFLers at the gym who cared more about money than they did if their team wins or loses and wondered why the fuck do I care so much about these guys who don't give a shit themselves?

I especially don't get why people who live and were raised in a certain city get obsessed with another city's team.  I understand rooting for your home team but why root for someone elses?  People take this shit way too seriously.  I have read a boatload of stories of fans getting shot, stabbed, beaten up etc.. at games.  Why are people so fucking stupid?  I know a guy who bought a million dollar home to paint the entire inside in Yellow and Black because he's a steelers fan.  The guy's an idiot.  Who does this shit?

Ever see the end of the game when a team that gets beat is laughing it up with the opposing team?  Fans are crying and acting like fools and the players just move on and don't give a fuck.  They go back, change into their Tom Ford suits, dive their ferraris back to their 10,000 sqft pads and have top 10 models suck them off while the average Joe beats his kids and wife because "his" team lost.

just don't get it.


That's because "sports teams" are part of the culture/tradition and society

your ancestors can b Yankees fan , and while you live in Boston you can root for Yankees too  ( not rocket science there)

You're only seeing the extreme of both ends,  the obsession,madness, the  business aspect" of it etc .. ...



But I know that those huge names of team sports once their team get eliminated they do go back to their mansions and follow the remaining teams in playoffs and act even worse than the average joe when say a pitcher ruins a game or a "walk off error" like the recent one of Cardinals vs giants...

I have had the chance of being there.




WooSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHH


the vast majority of fans of "sport teams" ' enjoy a healthy entertainment....   that's all
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: Mr Anabolic on October 16, 2014, 05:19:37 PM
(http://pixel.nymag.com/imgs/daily/intelligencer/2014/07/08/world-cup-gifs/world-cup-crying-woman.w560.h312.2x.gif)

Did she just hear her parents died in a plane crash?


Totally absurd.
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: Mr Anabolic on October 16, 2014, 05:20:37 PM
Like what, serious question?

If you are being serious, I feel sorry for you.
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: Meaningless on October 16, 2014, 05:26:06 PM
Lack of achievements or goals in their own life ???
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: Pet shop boys on October 16, 2014, 05:29:26 PM
Did she just hear her parents died in a plane crash?


Totally absurd.


lol ....  she has to wait another 4 long years to see if her team can qualify for the world cup ....shouldn't be crying, but not totally absurd either.


WooOSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHH  BE YE KE
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: Pray_4_War on October 16, 2014, 05:31:13 PM
Just a hobby, like a lot of things.  Why do people obsess over any of the stuff they obsess over?
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: Nails on October 16, 2014, 05:35:40 PM

(http://img.bleacherreport.net/img/article/media_slots/photos/001/626/155/hi-res-3521684f6d900b5a3407e5211d364808_crop_exact.jpg?w=650&h=433&q=85)


(http://news.sagacom.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/3/files/2014/07/AP587717616118_1-620x400.jpg)


(http://img2.timeinc.net/people/i/2014/sandbox/news/140721/brazil/brazil-fans-1-600x450.jpg)

Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: Bevo on October 16, 2014, 05:40:47 PM
Rooting and obsession are two different things. Nothing wrong when you support your city's team but the obsessive part is odd.  Wearing a jersey with another man's name on it.  Most sports obsessive fan's would cheer if their favorite player was fucking their wives.  Some odd subserviant behavior.

For some reason earl comes to mind
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: THEBOSS on October 16, 2014, 05:59:54 PM
 ::)  Insane group conformity ! Worshiping a bunch of men playing kids games ! Only thing gayer is if they played in thongs  :D
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: WalterWhite on October 16, 2014, 06:20:00 PM
Hollywood worship/obsession is far worse than sports.
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: Antonio fella on October 16, 2014, 06:45:43 PM
I used to be one of those.  The team would lose and my week would be ruined, wore the team's colors, read and watched everything about them then I grew up, met a few NFLers at the gym who cared more about money than they did if their team wins or loses and wondered why the fuck do I care so much about these guys who don't give a shit themselves?

I especially don't get why people who live and were raised in a certain city get obsessed with another city's team.  I understand rooting for your home team but why root for someone elses?  People take this shit way too seriously.  I have read a boatload of stories of fans getting shot, stabbed, beaten up etc.. at games.  Why are people so fucking stupid?  I know a guy who bought a million dollar home to paint the entire inside in Yellow and Black because he's a steelers fan.  The guy's an idiot.  Who does this shit?

Ever see the end of the game when a team that gets beat is laughing it up with the opposing team?  Fans are crying and acting like fools and the players just move on and don't give a fuck.  They go back, change into their Tom Ford suits, dive their ferraris back to their 10,000 sqft pads and have top 10 models suck them off while the average Joe beats his kids and wife because "his" team lost.

just don't get it.

Brilliant question and topic !!


My view is that human need to fill themselves with "something" - it could be anything.. tv shows, tv news, games, live games, music, team sports, drugs, alcohol.. etc. to feel happy to feel "belonging" to something.



Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: Voice of Doom on October 16, 2014, 06:57:49 PM
Tribalism.  Humans are genetically programmed to it. 

"welcome to the thunder dome" is also an example.
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: That_Dude on October 16, 2014, 07:06:08 PM
I've noticed a fee people who have a teams logo tattoo'd on them this baffles me. I hope that somewhere they can find meaning and achievement in their lives. To me this obsession with sports teams is just a desperate want/ need to fit in manifesting itself
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: Nails on October 16, 2014, 07:18:50 PM
(http://cdn.na16.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/cowboys-world-champs-tattoo.jpg)
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: The True Adonis on October 16, 2014, 07:55:49 PM
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: ChopperRider on October 16, 2014, 08:16:48 PM
True Adonis with very, very weak and lame trolling attempts.

Might as well sell your account to the Iranian millionaire.

 ::)
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: King Shizzo on October 16, 2014, 08:24:22 PM
True Adonis with very, very weak and lame trolling attempts.

Might as well sell your account to the Iranian millionaire.

 ::)
Nah.... I'll give the man his do. He has created numerous, popular threads in the last few days.

From one Hall of Famer to another.  ;)
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: forillagorilla on October 16, 2014, 08:31:42 PM
Have you not read my  National Joe Six Pack Closeted Man Love Day thread or any of my numerous thoughts on this subject, particularly the homo-erotic connections?

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=261276.0

Serious question. Did you ever excel in any real sports? 
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: EastCoastChick on October 16, 2014, 08:35:00 PM
I was obsessed with the 'Skins until I realized recently, that 21 years after our last Super Bowl appearance its finally over. 5 mins after a loss, its all forgotten, because...welp....its expected at this point.
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: ChopperRider on October 16, 2014, 08:58:23 PM
Nah.... I'll give the man his do. He has created numerous, popular threads in the last few days.

From one Hall of Famer to another.  ;)

The past week on Getbag = Most pathetic ever.

And for once, you're not to blame.
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: MikMaq on October 17, 2014, 03:18:19 AM
Just a hobby, like a lot of things.  Why do people obsess over any of the stuff they obsess over?
I have assburgers, so I don't really have a choice.

I get some mad endorphin serge when fixating on something. It's in the league of doing hard drugs.

It's just such a good feeling, you truly have no idea.

Tribalism.  Humans are genetically programmed to it.  

"welcome to the thunder dome" is also an example.
People say that, yet almost everything we do is overly social and tribal in nature.

This delusion of human excellence goes  right out the window when you understand basic human behavior.

Even the most intelligent of apes, wants their team to win, their enemies defeated, and access to all the hier tier ape ass. *****Cough cough all of academia******


haha what a loser living and farting in a single room with his wife and living off with no job.
you will not survive even for a day in real world.

the diffrnce between you and uberman is that he lose everyday and strugle but atleast he try..

look at his body it scream weakness and fragility but he try even have a shitty part time job ;D

you dont even have guts to go outside of your house and do real job  ::)
X2 adonis the master of living not living in real life.

Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: Powerlift66 on October 17, 2014, 03:45:15 AM
I have assburgers Aspergers so I don't really have a choice.

Ass Burgers  ;D
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: Powerlift66 on October 17, 2014, 03:46:03 AM
I love the ones who say "we kicked your ass" and similar.
I ddint know they were on the team?
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: Grape Ape on October 17, 2014, 03:48:26 AM
Doesn't bother me.  For most people it's just fun, and a chance to watch the best players compete at the highest level.

Of course there's always going to be extremists, as is the case with any large sample of people.
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: BigCyp on October 17, 2014, 04:00:41 AM
People long to be part of something bigger than themselves.

Same reason Vince goes to Kylie parties and does the locomotion dance naked with other men.
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: SaintAnger on October 17, 2014, 04:24:05 AM
I think the sports obsessed crowd are very weak, conformist people.  I pity them.

I was also surprised to discover most of those fans never played a day in their lives.  LOL!

The women who are into this shit were either loathed by their fathers (wanted a son) and/or void of any character traits that'd make them a suitable mate.  Hence, they want to be seen as cool and into sports so they can get a man.
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: Grape Ape on October 17, 2014, 04:28:52 AM
The women who are into this shit were either loathed by their fathers (wanted a son) and/or void of any character traits that'd make them a suitable mate.  Hence, they want to be seen as cool and into sports so they can get a man.

Or they just like sports.
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: Mr.1derful on October 17, 2014, 04:30:34 AM
Simple answer... because society conditions them to.

I never understood it at all.

So many more things to learn and do in life than waste time watching sports.

This.  Society is too distracted with sports and the drivel known as "reality television", to concern themselves with matters of real importance.  As long as American Idol is on T.V and Walmart is open, life is good in most people's eyes. 
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: forillagorilla on October 17, 2014, 04:37:26 AM
If you truly love sports - you enjoy ANY good game and can appreciate talent and athleticism. I have my favorite teams - but I am never going to let a loss affect my day. I think that is strange. I do enjoy seeing those that are excellent in their chosen thing in life - and watching elite athletes is motivational.
There are life skills that sports teach and although I wouldn't ever push my child to do something they didn't enjoy - I encourage for sure. My one rule is that if you start - you finish.
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: CalvinH on October 17, 2014, 06:11:25 AM
Doesn't bother me.  For most people it's just fun, and a chance to watch the best players compete at the highest level.

Of course there's always going to be extremists, as is the case with any large sample of people.


x2...when I was younger I was a little more nuts about it but being a Yankees fan in baseball and a Giants fan in football I've been lucky enough to have seen more then a few championships and I'm a lot calmer....I've even seen the Rangers win the Stanley cup.......now the Knicks :-\
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: dr.chimps on October 17, 2014, 06:33:30 AM
Doesn't bother me.  For most people it's just fun, and a chance to watch the best players compete at the highest level.

Of course there's always going to be extremists, as is the case with any large sample of people.
Exactly. And the people who like (and play) sports are the most enjoyable with whom to spend time. And by enjoyable I mean food and drink: sociable.   
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: SuperTed on October 17, 2014, 06:34:02 AM
People take this shit way too seriously.  I have read a boatload of stories of fans getting shot, stabbed, beaten up etc.. at games. 

Meanwhile in Russia. ;D

Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: bigmikecox on October 17, 2014, 06:41:33 AM
I am a FANATIC when it comes to my sports teams. (ohio state, browns, cavs, indians). When Ohio State lost to Va. Tech, my entire week was ruined! I didnt watch sportscenter for a week after that. And after the two losses last year, i put it behind me like a tramatic experience.

When Leborn left the 1st time, i stopped watching him play. I didnt see the finals for 4 years. I sent about 30 nasty emails to the Heat and burned all my Lebron shit! Now, im fucked b/c i have ZERO Lebron wear! LOL

GO BUCKS

F-MICHIGAN
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: MikMaq on October 17, 2014, 09:19:16 AM
This.  Society is too distracted with sports and the drivel known as "reality television", to concern themselves with matters of real importance.  As long as American Idol is on T.V and Walmart is open, life is good in most people's eyes. 
Please what are these important things, and more importantly how any average person could deal with those things while being an adult.
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: jr on October 17, 2014, 01:28:07 PM
Humans are tribal creatures.

We need to feel like we belong to a group.

We need a common enemy.

Following a sports team can fulfill this innate desire in us.

Following a religion is another example. There are plenty more.

To advance as a civilization we need to evolve  to overcome this destructive aspect of our genetics.

Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: Earl1972 on October 19, 2014, 09:21:42 PM
typically guys don't like sports because they weren't good at them

E
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: The True Adonis on October 19, 2014, 09:32:11 PM
typically guys don't like sports because they weren't good at them

E
Dumbest thing I have ever heard.  Most people who watch sports, never played them.
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: Croatch on October 19, 2014, 10:43:49 PM
Brainwashed since birth.  I gave up the sports fan thing around 12 or so.  I realized it's just a money maker with no team loyalty.  The saddest, is when people rally behind a team, as if they are playing for them.  Do people think athletes really give a shit about the people in the city?
There is so much hype around every event, I see how people buy into it.  I can respect the athletes, but the fanboys are just sad to watch.  You know...the guy who wears a Farve jersey to the sports bar on Sunday...as if he's about to do battle...instead it's usually a fatbody sucking down wings and beer.
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: Rami on October 20, 2014, 12:16:56 AM
Betas
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: Fortress on October 20, 2014, 09:35:38 AM
Fans are crying and acting like fools and the players just move on and don't give a fuck. They go back, change into their Tom Ford suits, drive their Ferraris back to their 10,000 sqft pads and have top 10 models suck them off while the average Joe beats his kids and wife because "his" team lost.

 ;D

I'm with you, man. Ridiculous. I mean, I get why watching sports is fun, and I understand rooting for a specific team, for whatever reason, but so many take things WAY too far.

"We won! We won!" ::)

YOU didn't win a damn thing, tosser.

Me, I am always too immersed in my own physical endeavor, powerlifting, to really have much time to devote to other mens' athletic pursuits.

Most weekends, say, while Freddy "Scamper" Mantits is eating greasy wings, chugging back bottle after bottle of estrogen-promoting brew, screaming at his rat-bastard kids to shut the fuck up and his wife to bring him the phone so he can order another grease wheel, all while watching "his" team do battle, I'm squatting big wheels and pressing hundreds of pounds, becoming a mega-man of inhuman might and manliness.

Freddy's just building his mantits and farting relentlessly into his couch, growing fatter and weaker with each and every game.  
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: gracie bjj on October 20, 2014, 09:38:21 AM
like sonny said in the movie  A BRONX TALE,  go ask mickey mantle to pay your rent and see what he tells you :D
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: MikMaq on October 20, 2014, 04:20:59 PM
Dumbest thing I have ever heard.  Most people who watch sports, never played them.
Straw man argument from getbig ultimate scientist ::)

Ignoring the fact that when your an adult who actually has a real job there is no time etc,


The reality is no one is saying it's cool to watch and have never played a day.

This is an uber american phenom of acting like playing the game isn't important.
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: kh300 on October 20, 2014, 04:43:20 PM
I hate watching sports. I hate the Monday morning quarterbacking and everyone's comments about what they would have done if they were the coach, or why a player sucks.

You never played a sport in your life, you were picked last in gym class, but you know more then the best coaches in the game. I cant listen to that crap.

Then these guys that wear jersey's with a guys name on the back. What kind of a loser wears another guys name?
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: MikMaq on October 20, 2014, 04:47:15 PM
I hate watching sports. I hate the Monday morning quarterbacking and everyone's comments about what they would have done if they were the coach, or why a player sucks.

You never played a sport in your life, you were picked last in gym class, but you know more then the best coaches in the game. I cant listen to that crap.

Then these guys that wear jersey's with a guys name on the back. What kind of a loser wears another guys name?
there are douches in all walks of life, has nothing to do with watching sports.
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: Earl1972 on October 20, 2014, 08:58:54 PM
Dumbest thing I have ever heard.  Most people who watch sports, never played them.

wrong

most that hate them were picked last in gym

this is what makes bodybuilding such a great sport, anybody can excel at it


E
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: The True Adonis on October 21, 2014, 10:53:19 AM
Straw man argument from getbig ultimate scientist ::)

Ignoring the fact that when your an adult who actually has a real job there is no time etc,


The reality is no one is saying it's cool to watch and have never played a day.

This is an uber american phenom of acting like playing the game isn't important.
Its a statistical certainty based on viewership, moron.
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: Coach is Back! on October 21, 2014, 11:01:10 AM
Dumbest thing I have ever heard.  Most people who watch sports, never played them.

That's horseshit. Most people watch sports because they did play them. Otherwise they wouldn't understand what they're watching.
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: Coach is Back! on October 21, 2014, 11:08:08 AM
I watch because 1. I like it. I like watching the strategy and planning of a team game, what works and what doesn't. 2. I observe the athletes and watch how they prepare. Nothing better than true athleticism and watching a spectacular play and 3. I know coaches and players on some of those teams.
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: Howard on October 21, 2014, 11:17:36 AM
like sonny said in the movie  A BRONX TALE,  go ask mickey mantle to pay your rent and see what he tells you :D

I swear to GOD I was going to post that. Great line , but I think Sonny added The Yankees don't give a crap about you kid and then said the Mickey Mantle  rent line.

I had a season ticket for the ATL Braves for a couple years. I was divorced/single at the time and found it to be a wholesome outlet.
LOL, a lot better then getting drunk in a bar or wasted on drugs, but I digress.

The energy and atmosphere of the ballpark was cool and I got lost in the game.
I even purchased and wore a replica Braves Jersey at most games.
I never attended the extra events they offered for season ticket holders and rarely watched any wrap up shows where pundits yak about the game.

Once I got engaged and got a more normal lifestyle going again, I stopped wanting to go to so many games.
Now, I'm content to watch games on TV via the various sports packages you can purchase for a fraction of the cost of going to the actual game.
( MLB Extra Innings ,  NHL Center Ice, etc ).

I have teams and players I enjoy seeing and I tend to root for them while they are playing the actual game.
Once the game is over, I don't want to dissect every aspect of the game and listen to sports media go on and on and on.
For me , it's fun and entertaining plus I respect the athletic skill displayed.
I don't feel any major connection however, with any team . I'm just a fan of the sport.
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: The True Adonis on October 21, 2014, 12:13:28 PM
That's horseshit. Most people watch sports because they did play them. Otherwise they wouldn't understand what they're watching.
How do you account for the large number of females who watch?

Also, its obvious the overall statistics of viewership is comprised of people who never played sports.  Do you realize the millions and millions and millions of viewers? 
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: El Diablo Blanco on October 21, 2014, 12:22:03 PM
How do you account for the large number of females who watch?

Also, its obvious the overall statistics of viewership is comprised of people who never played sports.  Do you realize the millions and millions and millions of viewers? 

this is can attest to.  Some of the hottest pussy I've ever seen was at NFLgames.  Not sure if these chicks are the wives or GF of the players or just fans but there are some hot chicks at these games.
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: The Abdominal Snoman on October 21, 2014, 02:22:45 PM
this is can attest to.  Some of the hottest pussy I've ever seen was at NFLgames.  Not sure if these chicks are the wives or GF of the players or just fans but there are some hot chicks at these games.

If you notice, a lot of these chicks are the ones who buy the Jersey's of the Quarterback or the "cute" guy on the team. Yankees had Jeter, Sox had Elsbury(that's one of the reason's the Yanks got Elsbury) they knew tons of chicks would go to the games to see him play and buy his Jersey. So many chicks have Tom Brady's jersey for the sole reason he's married to Gisele. A lot of these chicks are dreamers/delusional and think these guys are like boyfriends to them.
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: Coach is Back! on October 21, 2014, 04:02:24 PM
How do you account for the large number of females who watch?

Also, its obvious the overall statistics of viewership is comprised of people who never played sports.  Do you realize the millions and millions and millions of viewers?  

Females don't play sports?? My wife probably follows sports more than i do.
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: Lustral on October 21, 2014, 04:20:03 PM
I would like to say teams are just brands that create an emotional attachment but for football (soccer) in Europe it is different. You choose your team young for whatever reason (normally family or location - family for me) and that is it. You never change. That fact alone, that you can never change, means you have a bond of loyalty from the start.

If your team has success or a chance at it you get involved in their quest for success. If they do shit you bitch and moan about it, which is just as fun and less stressful. Last season was horrible for me (liverpool fan). I had become numbed to being mediocre after 5 years of being shit. Then suddenly we are 1st in league, favourites. We have to win every match. Defence is shit so every game you think they will fuck up but they keep going. 3rd last match, nearly there, they lose. 5 years of apathy then 6 months or so of hope and optimism blown away in one match. They come 2nd. Best player sold.

Now playing shit, doing shit I feel better cos I don't care as much. Fuck Demba Ba. I still have nightmares about Luis Suarez leaving too.
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: King Shizzo on October 21, 2014, 04:49:05 PM
If you notice, a lot of these chicks are the ones who buy the Jersey's of the Quarterback or the "cute" guy on the team. Yankees had Jeter, Sox had Elsbury(that's one of the reason's the Yanks got Elsbury) they knew tons of chicks would go to the games to see him play and buy his Jersey. So many chicks have Tom Brady's jersey for the sole reason he's married to Gisele. A lot of these chicks are dreamers/delusional and think these guys are like boyfriends to them.
I have two Brady jerseys (home/away)  :-*
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: che on October 21, 2014, 04:51:14 PM
I have two Brady jerseys (home/away)  :-*
What sports did you play when you were a kid , Shizzo ?
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: King Shizzo on October 21, 2014, 04:53:51 PM
What sports did you play when you were a kid , Shizzo ?
I played football and baseball in highschool.

I also have obviously played pick up games of basketball.

I like sports.
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: Lustral on October 21, 2014, 04:56:12 PM
What sports did you play when you were a kid , Shizzo ?

Is hot dog eating a sport?
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: che on October 21, 2014, 04:57:45 PM
I played football and baseball in highschool.

I also have obviously played pick up games of basketball.

I like sports.
Were you any good?
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: The True Adonis on October 21, 2014, 04:59:35 PM
Females don't play sports?? My wife probably follows sports more than i do.
Oh cool.  Which Football team did she play for?
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: King Shizzo on October 21, 2014, 05:00:15 PM
Were you any good?
Id like to think I could have received a scholarship in football or baseball.

Ultimately I did not take it as seriously as I should have.

Decided to get a job instead. I regret not seeing it through.
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: Nails on October 21, 2014, 05:05:49 PM
I have two Brady jerseys (home/away)  :-*


i have a Padro Martinez Boston Away jersey, and Brady Home Pats Jersey

also,

howie long raiders
joe montana Niners
boomer esiason Bangles
Babe Ruth Yankees
Shaq Lakers
Manny Ramirez Redsox and Dodgers
Fernando Valenzuela Dodgers
Mike Piazza  dodgers
Kirk gibson dodgers
Dan Marino Dolphins
tony Gwynn Padres

and thats what i can remember off the top of my head im sure i have more in my closet but i dont wear them much anymore
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: King Shizzo on October 21, 2014, 05:08:33 PM

i have a Padro Martinez Boston Away jersey, and Brady Home Pats Jersey

also,

howie long raiders
joe montana Niners
boomer esiason Bangles
Babe Ruth Yankees
Shaq Lakers
Manny Ramirez Redsox and Dodgers
Fernando Valenzuela Dodgers
Mike Piazza  dodgers
Kirk gibson dodgers
Dan Marino Dolphins
tony Gwynn Padres

and thats what i can remember off the top of my head im sure i have more in my closet but i dont wear them much anymore
Lol! I also have a Moss, Welker, and Bruschi jerseys.


Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: che on October 21, 2014, 05:14:00 PM
BTW ,American Football is the most overrated sport in the world.
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: King Shizzo on October 21, 2014, 05:16:21 PM
BTW ,American Football is the most overrated sport in the world.
Thats an opinion  ;)
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: Nails on October 21, 2014, 05:18:02 PM
BTW


LETS DO THIS SHIT FUCKING ROYALS!!!!!!!!!!!!


 



(http://baseballreflections.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/2014_ws_logo.png)


(http://www.necc.mass.edu/newsroom/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2014/04/world-series-trophy.jpg)
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: che on October 21, 2014, 05:18:48 PM
Thats an opinion  ;)
it's the truth
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: Nails on October 21, 2014, 05:19:00 PM
Thats an opinion  ;)
BTW
 
 
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: King Shizzo on October 21, 2014, 05:19:13 PM
BTW


LETS DO THIS SHIT FUCKING ROYALS!!!!!!!!!!!!


 



(http://baseballreflections.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/2014_ws_logo.png)


(http://www.necc.mass.edu/newsroom/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2014/04/world-series-trophy.jpg)
Shields already pitching batting practice  :-X
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: Earl1972 on October 21, 2014, 11:48:08 PM
How do you account for the large number of females who watch?

Also, its obvious the overall statistics of viewership is comprised of people who never played sports.  Do you realize the millions and millions and millions of viewers? 

females by nature are followers, if tv tells them the local team is in a big game they then feel like they have to care about it

watch a game with women, most aren't even paying attention but they'll buy the jerseys and tell you how "big" of a fan they are

they also watch to try and relate with guys

E
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: Coach is Back! on October 22, 2014, 12:23:56 AM
Oh cool.  Which Football team did she play for?

Pay attention. This thread didn't indicate what sport.
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: Bevo on October 22, 2014, 01:19:47 AM
typically guys don't like sports because they weren't good at them

E

Works both ways, u could say most that are obsessed with sports wish they were good at it and using sports to validate themselves into a sense of belonging or associating with something
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: Bevo on October 22, 2014, 01:22:30 AM
;D

I'm with you, man. Ridiculous. I mean, I get why watching sports is fun, and I understand rooting for a specific team, for whatever reason, but so many take things WAY too far.

"We won! We won!" ::)

YOU didn't win a damn thing, tosser.

Me, I am always too immersed in my own physical endeavor, powerlifting, to really have much time to devote to other mens' athletic pursuits.

Most weekends, say, while Freddy "Scamper" Mantits is eating greasy wings, chugging back bottle after bottle of estrogen-promoting brew, screaming at his rat-bastard kids to shut the fuck up and his wife to bring him the phone so he can order another grease wheel, all while watching "his" team do battle, I'm squatting big wheels and pressing hundreds of pounds, becoming a mega-man of inhuman might and manliness.

Freddy's just building his mantits and farting relentlessly into his couch, growing fatter and weaker with each and every game.  

U must be a monster with Tom platz quads  :o
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: The True Adonis on October 22, 2014, 09:55:53 AM
Works both ways, u could say most that are obsessed with sports wish they were good at it and using sports to validate themselves into a sense of belonging or associating with something
Look at these former athletes and now fans.  They were the pick of the litter I bet when they "played sports".

(http://www.strangesports.com/images/content/111148.jpg)

Check out this former All Star Team now fans.

(http://infieldfly1023.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/chubbies-chomping1.png)

Elite former athletes right here:

(http://2j2e0t1q2q5h348nps3hd39w15fg.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/tailgating2.jpg)
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: The True Adonis on October 22, 2014, 09:57:15 AM
Yes, the majority of "fans" were all sports playing number one picks in High School and College.  ::)  ::)

You fucking sports people are so deluded its pathetic really.
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: El Diablo Blanco on October 22, 2014, 12:38:47 PM
Yes, the majority of "fans" were all sports playing number one picks in High School and College.  ::)  ::)

You fucking sports people are so deluded its pathetic really.

Most people who are fanatics are ones who couldn't play and wish they did.  Most guys that I know that played ball in highschool, college and professional once done barely watch games and couldn't be bothered to.
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: Lustral on October 22, 2014, 05:41:50 PM
BTW


LETS DO THIS SHIT FUCKING ROYALS!!!!!!!!!!!!


 



(http://baseballreflections.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/2014_ws_logo.png)


(http://www.necc.mass.edu/newsroom/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2014/04/world-series-trophy.jpg)

I can't watch most us sport without falling asleep or punching tv cos of all the ads but one thing I do love is the draft system and salary cap mean there is some remote chance that the shittest teams can win once in a generation. The hegemony in football is getting worse every year and the new ffp rules, meant to make it fairer (lol) have further enforced that the same few clubs will win the big titles in Europe every year.
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: Coach is Back! on October 22, 2014, 08:50:35 PM
Yes, the majority of "fans" were all sports playing number one picks in High School and College.  ::)  ::)

You fucking sports people are so deluded its pathetic really.

How's Lui?
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: The True Adonis on October 22, 2014, 08:52:13 PM
How's Lui?
Phil Heath blocked Lui but I think Lui got the best of him.
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: Earl1972 on October 22, 2014, 08:58:15 PM
Works both ways, u could say most that are obsessed with sports wish they were good at it and using sports to validate themselves into a sense of belonging or associating with something

the belonging part applies to most female sport fans, in a sport crazy town they don't want to be looked at as an outcast for not following the team

i don't know a single person that was good at sports as a kid that hates them as an adult

the drama of following a team throughout a season is better than any movie or tv show

E
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: Earl1972 on October 22, 2014, 09:01:03 PM
Most people who are fanatics are ones who couldn't play and wish they did.  Most guys that I know that played ball in highschool, college and professional once done barely watch games and couldn't be bothered to.

that is common for the guys that played at a high level in college or a short time in the pros

they can't handle watching it anymore because it depresses them, their career didn't turn out as well as they hoped or expected, they see other guys living the life they lost out on and instead have to work a regular job like the rest of us

guys that just played in high school and excelled don't hate it as adults

E
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: The True Adonis on October 22, 2014, 09:08:56 PM
the belonging part applies to most female sport fans, in a sport crazy town they don't want to be looked at as an outcast for not following the team

i don't know a single person that was good at sports as a kid that hates them as an adult

the drama of following a team throughout a season is better than any movie or tv show

E
???

Really?  The themes in sports are so limited and constrained.  Perhaps if you gave a player a gun on the field and made a clue type game out of it.  No idea how anyone could find a game with set rules compelling in the least.  You already know what is going to happen.  Team A will beat Team B and they will do the same thing next year.  It makes no difference who wins what because there is NO FINALITY.  The same teams will just do the same thing again and again and again and again until they are blue in the face.
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: The True Adonis on October 22, 2014, 09:10:07 PM
that is common for the guys that played at a high level in college or a short time in the pros

they can't handle watching it anymore because it depresses them, their career didn't turn out as well as they hoped or expected, they see other guys living the life they lost out on and instead have to work a regular job like the rest of us

guys that just played in high school and excelled don't hate it as adults

E
Look at these former athletes and now fans.  They were the pick of the litter I bet when they "played sports".

(http://www.strangesports.com/images/content/111148.jpg)

Check out this former All Star Team now fans.

(http://infieldfly1023.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/chubbies-chomping1.png)

Elite former athletes right here:

(http://2j2e0t1q2q5h348nps3hd39w15fg.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/tailgating2.jpg)
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: Earl1972 on October 22, 2014, 09:13:08 PM
???

Really?  The themes in sports are so limited and constrained.  Perhaps if you gave a player a gun on the field and made a clue type game out of it.  No idea how anyone could find a game with set rules compelling in the least.  You already know what is going to happen.  Team A will beat Team B and they will do the same thing next year.  It makes no difference who wins what because there is NO FINALITY.  The same teams will just do the same thing again and again and again and again until they are blue in the face.

not just the games but the trades, drafts, offseason moves, injuries, locker room drama etc

it's all highly interesting to true sport fans

E
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: Earl1972 on October 22, 2014, 09:14:55 PM
Look at these former athletes and now fans.  They were the pick of the litter I bet when they "played sports".

(http://www.strangesports.com/images/content/111148.jpg)

Check out this former All Star Team now fans.

(http://infieldfly1023.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/chubbies-chomping1.png)

Elite former athletes right here:

(http://2j2e0t1q2q5h348nps3hd39w15fg.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/tailgating2.jpg)

you'd be surprised to know who once was a star athlete as a kid

many (most?)  people age and gain weight

E

Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: The True Adonis on October 22, 2014, 09:23:47 PM
you'd be surprised to know who once was a star athlete as a kid

many (most?)  people age and gain weight

E


Yes, I agree.  They were all All-Stars.  Shame they let themselves go though.  Probably still great football players though.
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: Bevo on October 22, 2014, 09:50:23 PM
Look at these former athletes and now fans.  They were the pick of the litter I bet when they "played sports".

(http://www.strangesports.com/images/content/111148.jpg)

Check out this former All Star Team now fans.

(http://infieldfly1023.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/chubbies-chomping1.png)

Elite former athletes right here:

(http://2j2e0t1q2q5h348nps3hd39w15fg.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/tailgating2.jpg)

I am actually agreeing with u that there are a lot that never played or have played but sucked really bad at it and now they need something to validate thier belonging hence why the term "we won" is used
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: Bevo on October 22, 2014, 09:53:41 PM
Most people who are fanatics are ones who couldn't play and wish they did.  Most guys that I know that played ball in highschool, college and professional once done barely watch games and couldn't be bothered to.

This is also true , funny I worked out last weekend with former Dallas Cowboys field goal kicker David buehler who graduated from USC and between sets of squats we chatted about teams around the league and he wasn't too sure on a lot of what was happening in the league and how he didn't pay attention too much or even had any interest in fantasy football
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: The True Adonis on October 22, 2014, 09:54:36 PM
I am actually agreeing with u that there are a lot that never played or have played but sucked really bad at it and now they need something to validate thier belonging hence why the term "we won" is used
I know Bevo.  I just felt we needed pics to validate our position.  ;)
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: Earl1972 on October 25, 2014, 04:21:08 PM
This is also true , funny I worked out last weekend with former Dallas Cowboys field goal kicker David buehler who graduated from USC and between sets of squats we chatted about teams around the league and he wasn't too sure on a lot of what was happening in the league and how he didn't pay attention too much or even had any interest in fantasy football

he was a kicker, not a football player

they don't even associate with the team during practice

E
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: King Shizzo on October 25, 2014, 04:37:50 PM
People love sports all around the world.

Why hate on someone who likes it?
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: Ronnie Rep on October 25, 2014, 06:17:28 PM
Let's go Iggles, still waiting for that Super Bowl ring.
Title: Re: Why do people get so obsessed over a sports team?
Post by: 2Thick on October 26, 2014, 02:12:39 PM
I love the ones who say "we kicked your ass" and similar.
I ddint know they were on the team?

Once a grown man starts to describe his favorite sports team as "we", you know he's truly lost the plot.