Could doggcrapp buy Getbig?/Disappointed

[Vince B]

I see no point in ingesting large amounts of protein. The fact that many take large amounts of protein is not proof that you need large amounts. We need research and not debates to settle this question. Anecdotal reports are not sufficient to argue the case.

[The True Adonis]

This is because protein DOES have a thermogenic effect on the body...........but not enough to make an impact! Here's where everyone is missing the point. Sure, protein causes the body to work harder to digest it, which causes the body's internal temperature to rise, but it is NOT enough to really make a dent in burning fat or preserving muscle mass.

Researchers at Arizona State University examined individuals that ate a high protein diet and compared them to another group that ate a high carb diet. What they found was that eating a high protein diet resulted in an average of 30 calories per meal being burned in digestion.

Read that again.......30 calories per meal. Whoop-tee, doo!!! 30 calories! Okay, then let's say you eat 5 meals a day. 30 calories per meal, 5 meals a day, that equals 150 calories. So, you would only be burning an extra 150 calories a day if you were to go on a high protein diet. Big deal!!!! 150 calories is 1 cup of milk. It's 2 eggs. It's half a candy bar. 150 calories isn't going to make any difference whatsoever in helping you gain weight, build muscle mass, or burn fat.

Everyone keeps saying, "Oh, but you can eat more protein and not gain any fat because of the thermogenic effect". Give me a break........150 calories.....I rather just cut out 1 can of soda a day and get the same effect!

Don't be fooled by the "high-protein" fans. They just want you to go out and spend your hard-earned money on their bucket of protein. If you are looking to gain weight and build muscle, concentrate on the overall calories.

[Van_Bilderass]

"For some foods this is a very easy process, as in the case of fat with only 2% of the energy ingested from fat lost in the process of its digestion. Fat therefore has a very minimal thermic effect. In the case of carbohydrate, the thermic effect is around 8%. Although absolutely essential to the body for growth, tissue regeneration and supporting the immune system, protein is hard to process and has the highest thermic effect, at around 30%. That means that in a diet based largely on protein, such as a high-protein low-carb diet, the body burns 30% more calories a day, simply on digestion, translating to an elevated metabolic rate!"

So you guys keep eating that ice cream, Ill stick with my gameplan which is for every 100 calories of protein you take in it takes up to 25-33 calories thru digestion to process that protein, and only 3-4 for carbs and 2-3 for fats....further that along with a very high water intake and I'm creating human muscle building fat burning blast furnaces. You keep saying someone can only gain 1-3lbs of muscle mass a year naturally...I can see exactly why when you allow all aspects of homeostasis to take place.

The thermic effect of increasing protein is quite miniscule actually, all things considered.

Take a look at this:

Andrea C Buchholz and Dale A Schoeller. Is a calorie a calorie? American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Vol. 79, No. 5, 899S-906S, May 2004

"There are fewer studies of the effect of changes in the percentage of energy from protein on total energy expenditure than there are of the effect of changes in total energy intake. The effect of changes in the percentage of dietary energy from protein on the thermic effect of food has been reviewed recently (48). On the basis of a meta-analysis, it was concluded that the thermic effect of food increases {approx}7 kcal/1000 kcal of ingested food for each increase of 10 percentage points in the percentage of energy from protein. Thus, if a subject is instructed to consume a 1500-kcal/d energy-restricted diet with 35% of energy from protein, then the thermic effect of food will be 21 kcal/d higher than if protein contributes only 15% of the dietary energy.

WOW, in this example you'll burn an extra 21 calories by increasing protein from 15-35% of daily calories!

[The True Adonis]

Protein "Thermogenesis" Myth

"Thermogenesis" or something that has a "thermogenic" effect on the body refers to anything that causes the temperature inside your body (sometimes your temperature on the skin is different from the temperature inside, your core temperature) to rise, to increase. Well, we all know from school that the average / normal core body temperature is 98.6 degrees. However, when your core temperature increases, even by just 1 or 2 degrees, it is said that this higher temperature causes the body to turn into a "furnace", raising the metabolism, which results in fat being burned.

Well, what does this have to do with building muscle mass and gaining weight? Well, one of the many reasons everyone and their mother seems to recommend eating a high protein diet is because of this "thermogenic" effect. People are under the misconception that you can gain a lot of muscle weight without gaining fat if you eat a high protein diet.

This is because protein DOES have a thermogenic effect on the body...........but not enough to make an impact! Here's where everyone is missing the point. Sure, protein causes the body to work harder to digest it, which causes the body's internal temperature to rise, but it is NOT enough to really make a dent in burning fat or preserving muscle mass.

Researchers at Arizona State University examined individuals that ate a high protein diet and compared them to another group that ate a high carb diet. What they found was that eating a high protein diet resulted in an average of 30 calories per meal being burned in digestion.

Read that again.......30 calories per meal. Whoop-tee, doo!!! 30 calories! Okay, then let's say you eat 5 meals a day. 30 calories per meal, 5 meals a day, that equals 150 calories. So, you would only be burning an extra 150 calories a day if you were to go on a high protein diet. Big deal!!!! 150 calories is 1 cup of milk. It's 2 eggs. It's half a candy bar. 150 calories isn't going to make any difference whatsoever in helping you gain weight, build muscle mass, or burn fat.

Everyone keeps saying, "Oh, but you can eat more protein and not gain any fat because of the thermogenic effect". Give me a break........150 calories.....I rather just cut out 1 can of soda a day and get the same effect!

Don't be fooled by the "high-protein" fans. They just want you to go out and spend your hard-earned money on their bucket of protein. If you are looking to gain weight and build muscle, concentrate on the overall calories.















CALORIES BURNED BY TALKING:Sitting while talking
Including talking on the phone  46 an hour.

hahahahahah

[bjorn_fairhair]

"You must get 500 grams of protein a day!  ..by the way I sell high quality protein, buy it from me!"

-Dante


 

[DOGGCRAPP]

This is because protein DOES have a thermogenic effect on the body...........but not enough to make an impact! Here's where everyone is missing the point. Sure, protein causes the body to work harder to digest it, which causes the body's internal temperature to rise, but it is NOT enough to really make a dent in burning fat or preserving muscle mass.

Researchers at Arizona State University examined individuals that ate a high protein diet and compared them to another group that ate a high carb diet. What they found was that eating a high protein diet resulted in an average of 30 calories per meal being burned in digestion.

Read that again.......30 calories per meal. Whoop-tee, doo!!! 30 calories! Okay, then let's say you eat 5 meals a day. 30 calories per meal, 5 meals a day, that equals 150 calories. So, you would only be burning an extra 150 calories a day if you were to go on a high protein diet. Big deal!!!! 150 calories is 1 cup of milk. It's 2 eggs. It's half a candy bar. 150 calories isn't going to make any difference whatsoever in helping you gain weight, build muscle mass, or burn fat.

Everyone keeps saying, "Oh, but you can eat more protein and not gain any fat because of the thermogenic effect". Give me a break........150 calories.....I rather just cut out 1 can of soda a day and get the same effect!

Don't be fooled by the "high-protein" fans. They just want you to go out and spend your hard-earned money on their bucket of protein. If you are looking to gain weight and build muscle, concentrate on the overall calories.

Thats fine and dandy...except you leave out the main cog to the question...what was in that meal. Because according to your math, if someone was taking in 300 grams of protein a day=1200 calories and 33% is getting used up during the digestive process....your looking at 400 calories burned which is a 45 minute treadmill cardio session for most men  

[affy]

another interesting observation that might support TA's point of view is the prison system

notice that these guys eat only 3 meals a day.  and those three meals a pretty much a bunch of mush and other crap mixed together...hardly any protien.  but yet the guys who do lift weights or do bodyweight calisthenics are decently built and ripped?

just a food for thought

[bjorn_fairhair]

Even if that 33% figure is true, you still will have a hard time getting that much protein that you'll have to take protein shakes, that aren't the most filling or tastey food anyway, it's not worth it.

[The True Adonis]

Thats fine and dandy...except you leave out the main cog to the question...what was in that meal. Because according to your math, if someone was taking in 300 grams of protein a day=1200 calories and 33% is getting used up during the digestive process....your looking at 400 calories burned which is a 45 minute treadmill cardio session for most men  

You KEEP people in a surplus causing them to GAIN BODYFAT.

Why on earth are you concerned with burning calories and the Thermogenic effect??

hahhhaha you will burn more than 400 calories in a day by just talking to people on a daily basis.

hahhahahahhahahahahahaha hahah

[bjorn_fairhair]

just eat 100g less protein and there's your 400 calories.

[Van_Bilderass]

Another for Dante:

Nutrition. 2003 Sep;19(9):703-7. Related Articles, Links

Effect of hypocaloric meals with different macronutrient compositions on energy metabolism and lung function in obese women.

Suen VM, Silva GA, Tannus AF, Unamuno MR, Marchini JS.

Division of Clinical Nutrition, Hospital das Clinicas, Ribeirao Preto, Sao Paulo, Brazil. viviansuen@hotmail.com

OBJECTIVE: We investigated the effect of hypocaloric mixed diets with different proportions of carbohydrate, protein, and fat on resting metabolic rate and the thermic effect of food in obese women. METHODS: Three mixed hypocaloric diets were consumed in random order during separate periods lasting 7 d each. Between each dietary period there was a washout period of 10 d. Diet 1 had a higher proportion of energy from carbohydrate (72%), diet 2 had a higher proportion of energy from protein (43%), and diet 3 had a higher proportion of energy from fat (68%). Indirect calorimetry and lung function tests were done after the completion of each 7-d diet. Seven obese women, ages 22 to 45 y and with body mass indexes of 32 to 59 kg/m(2), participated in the study. Oxygen consumption, carbon dioxide production, resting metabolic rate, and the thermic effect of food by indirect calorimetry were measured. Lung function tests included spirometry in the seated and upright positions, arterial blood gas analysis, and maximal inspiratory and expiratory pressures. RESULTS: There were no statistically significant differences in the resting metabolic rate and the thermic effect of food resulting from the three diets. The mean resting metabolic rates (kJ/d) were 7453 +/- 1446 for diet 1, 7461 +/- 1965 for diet 2, and 7076 +/- 2048 for diet 3. The mean thermic effects of food (kcal/min) were -0.02 +/- 0.07 for diet 1, -0.01 +/- 0.25 for diet 2, and 0.05 +/- 0.13 for diet 3. Lung function tests were normal before and after the hypocaloic diets: partial pressure of oxygen (mmHg) values were 81 +/- 13, 77 +/- 8, and 78 +/- 11 for diets 1 to 3, respectively; and partial pressure of carbon dioxide (mmHg) were 37 +/- 4, 37 +/- 3, and 37 +/- 4 for diets 1 to 3, respectively. CONCLUSIONS: Obese women with normal lung function tests and consuming mixed hypocaloric diets showed no alteration in resting metabolic rate and a reduced or absent thermic effect of food independently of the macronutrient composition.

[MAXX]

I have always believed that it needs to be demonstrated in a lab how much protein is required for building muscle. My feeling is you need about 1 gram of protein for every 2 pounds of bodyweight. How much protein we need is not a matter of belief but of research. The problem we have settling this question is finding research done on advanced bodybuilders. I will admit that most companies, magazines and individuals who sell protein supplements always exaggerate how much protein you need. The same goes for vitamins, etc. I refused to sell any supplements in my gym for over 20 years. My partner convinced me that bodybuilders were buying supplements down the road so to speak so we eventually provided them as well. I never recommend extra protein but I do recommend extra calories for most young guys who are growing very slowly.

Melvin doesn't know much about nutrition. For example, I don't believe there is anything called junk food. Either a substance is a food or it is junk. It cannot be both. What people eat can be referred to as a junk diet because they lack nutrients and balance. For example, if someone ate only potato fries and nothing else they would get sick. If you trained and ate only at McDonalds you would be fine. That movie "SuperSize Me" was a scam. At least he got McDonalds to offer tastier food and change the way they marketed food.

so you are basically saying that diets with high ammount of saturated fats are not unhealthy?

[The True Adonis]

Besides,

I seriously doubt that Whey mixed with water has much of a Thermogenic effect as would a Piece of meat.

More reason not to buy Protein powder. hahhahahah

[Jujoshu]

The so-called protein "thermogenic effect" has got to be about the dumbest thing I've ever read.
Does anyone honestly think the "effects" of this would counterbalance the excess fat you'd gain in
consuming way over the body's limit of processable protein? The only people I've seen who are actually lean
while consuming these ridiculous high protein diets are ones taking drugs to lean them out.

[DOGGCRAPP]

"You must get 500 grams of protein a day!  ..by the way I sell high quality protein, buy it from me!"

-Dante


 

Bjorn I have been advocating higher protien intakes (1.5-2 grams per lb of bodyweight) for 15 years and wrote about it thoroughly in Hardcore Muscle magazine from 92-95.....whereas Trueprotein opened 2 years ago. Do you think I had a forseable 12 year marketing plan?--LOL. Would it make you happy if I owned a company that had nothing to do with this sport and instead went to a job every day I abhored? I dont care if anyone on this board buys protein from me or any other company. Im not pushing anything on anyone here, do what you want to do, but to sit here and tell people that ice cream and crispy cream donuts is the key to becoming the bodybuilder you want to be............(well you make the call)

[bjorn_fairhair]

The so-called protein "thermogenic effect" has got to be about the dumbest thing I've ever read.
Does anyone honestly think the "effects" of this would counterbalance the excess fat you'd gain in
consuming way over the body's limit of processable protein? The only people I've seen who are actually lean
while consuming these ridiculous high protein diets are ones taking drugs to lean them out.

haha exactly.

[Hedgehog]

another interesting observation that might support TA's point of view is the prison system

notice that these guys eat only 3 meals a day.  and those three meals a pretty much a bunch of mush and other crap mixed together...hardly any protien.  but yet the guys who do lift weights or do bodyweight calisthenics are decently built and ripped?

just a food for thought

There are steroids available in american prisons.

YIP
Zack

[The True Adonis]

so you are basically saying that diets with high ammount of saturated fats are not unhealthy?

Not entirely.

Want me to post why?

[bjorn_fairhair]

There are steroids available in american prisons.

YIP
Zack

Are you saying steroid users can gain muscle with low protein but natural guys can't?     

[DOGGCRAPP]

CONCLUSIONS: Obese women with normal lung function tests and consuming mixed hypocaloric diets showed no alteration in resting metabolic rate and a reduced or absent thermic effect of food independently of the macronutrient composition.

Wow you really pinpointed athletes on a weight training program with that study Van

[haider]

Are you saying steroid users can gain muscle with low protein but natural guys can't?     

I hope u're joking.

[The True Adonis]

Bjorn I have been advocating higher protien intakes (1.5-2 grams per lb of bodyweight) for 15 years and wrote about it thoroughly in Hardcore Muscle magazine from 92-95.....whereas Trueprotein opened 2 years ago. Do you think I had a forseable 12 year marketing plan?--LOL. Would it make you happy if I owned a company that had nothing to do with this sport and instead went to a job every day I abhored? I dont care if anyone on this board buys protein from me or any other company. Im not pushing anything on anyone here, do what you want to do, but to sit here and tell people that ice cream and crispy cream donuts is the key to becoming the bodybuilder you want to be............(well you make the call)

I look better than you fatbody.

10 out of 10 people agree.
hahhahahahahahh

If I showed my pics on the street and said, I eat Krispy Kreme and Oreos

And you showed them your pic and you said I eat 500 grams of protein and go through cruise and blast cycles hahahhahah

They would laugh at your fat ass and be like,

Give me the Doughnuts that you eat Adonis.
hahhahahahah

[affy]

Are you saying steroid users can gain muscle with low protein but natural guys can't?     

i guess they have a special up in prison

buy 500ml test/week and get a free tub of whey

[bjorn_fairhair]

I hope u're joking.

nope.    Are you saying that steroids convert carbs to protein then?  Because some of you are saying that high protein is needed for muscle building.  Why would steroid users be able to gain on low protein but now natural bodybuilders?

[The True Adonis]

i guess they have a special up in prison

buy 500ml test/week and get a free tub of whey

hahahahah If there are so many Steroids in Prison, then why isn`t Craig Titus big anymore? hahhahahah The man never met a Roid he couldn`t turn down.