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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: 240 is Back on February 04, 2009, 10:41:04 AM
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Former Vice President Dick Cheney warned that there is a “high probability” that terrorists will attempt a catastrophic nuclear or biological attack in coming years, and said he fears the Obama administration’s policies will make it more likely the attempt will succeed.
In an interview Tuesday with Politico, Cheney unyieldingly defended the Bush administration’s support for the Guantanamo Bay prison and coercive interrogation of terrorism suspects.
And he asserted that President Obama will either backtrack on his stated intentions to end those policies or put the country at risk in ways more severe than most Americans — and, he charged, many members of Obama’s own team — understand.
“When we get people who are more concerned about reading the rights to an Al Qaeda terrorist than they are with protecting the United States against people who are absolutely committed to do anything they can to kill Americans, then I worry,” Cheney said.
Protecting the country’s security is “a tough, mean, dirty, nasty business,” he said. “These are evil people. And we’re not going to win this fight by turning the other cheek.”
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Former Vice President Dick Cheney warned that there is a “high probability” that terrorists will attempt a catastrophic nuclear or biological attack in coming years, and said he fears the Obama administration’s policies will make it more likely the attempt will succeed.
In an interview Tuesday with Politico, Cheney unyieldingly defended the Bush administration’s support for the Guantanamo Bay prison and coercive interrogation of terrorism suspects.
And he asserted that President Obama will either backtrack on his stated intentions to end those policies or put the country at risk in ways more severe than most Americans — and, he charged, many members of Obama’s own team — understand.
“When we get people who are more concerned about reading the rights to an Al Qaeda terrorist than they are with protecting the United States against people who are absolutely committed to do anything they can to kill Americans, then I worry,” Cheney said.
Protecting the country’s security is “a tough, mean, dirty, nasty business,” he said. “These are evil people. And we’re not going to win this fight by turning the other cheek.”
Hard to argue with that. Only liberals care about terrorists' rights.
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Ya, can't violate any civil rights now.....
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I feel Cheney is 100% right.
The threat has not gone away and I'm afraid the BHO administration has a pre 9/11 mind set.
Along with a lot of Americans, too.
You know Al'qada was salivating during the campaign at an Obama presidency.
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How can Cheney brag about protecting the country when he and his proxy Bush let the country be attacked multiple times before he ever bothered to convene his counter-terrorism task force
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usa simply should reconsider its incestious relationship with israel, its mainly because of that the hatred against america is so huge.
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usa simply should reconsider its incestious relationship with israel, its mainly because of that the hatred against america is so huge.
BS! Islamic terror spread to Europe , Asia and the Pacific long ago.
As I have said, Obama need to read The Prince, as Machiavelli notes there that one of the most fearsome and most powerful things is someone who doesn't mind if he die in order to get his goal.
This is why you cannot expect to treat this people as some regular criminals, these people don't need the same opportunity window that a regular criminal need , it's a totally different game.
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You know Al'qada was salivating during the campaign at an Obama presidency.
obama is sitll blowing up shit in pakistan, just like bush did.
Obama advocated sending men and bombs into pakistan, even if paki govt says no. More pro-active than mccain on that one.
and obama is moving MORE troops into afghanistan, to actually KILL bin laden. Bush, on the other hand "did think about him much" and sure didn't catch him in 8 years.
Obama's sending 30,000 men into afghanistan to kill bin laden. Saying OBL is celebrating 30k new visitors dying to blast him? You make no sense brah.
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Former Vice President Dick Cheney warned that there is a “high probability” that terrorists will attempt a catastrophic nuclear or biological attack in coming years, and said he fears the Obama administration’s policies will make it more likely the attempt will succeed.
no kidding? had no idea. ::)
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obama is sitll blowing up shit in pakistan, just like bush did.
Obama advocated sending men and bombs into pakistan, even if paki govt says no. More pro-active than mccain on that one.
and obama is moving MORE troops into afghanistan, to actually KILL bin laden. Bush, on the other hand "did think about him much" and sure didn't catch him in 8 years.
Obama's sending 30,000 men into afghanistan to kill bin laden. Saying OBL is celebrating 30k new visitors dying to blast him? You make no sense brah.
30,000 guys aren't going to find Bin Laden ....a 10 man SOF team will. 30,000 guys are there to implement the take and hold strategy P4 wants to execute. Obama isn't doing shit about Bin laden that we were'nt already, under Bush.
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30,000 guys aren't going to find Bin Laden ....a 10 man SOF team will. 30,000 guys are there to implement the take and hold strategy P4 wants to execute. Obama isn't doing shit about Bin laden that we were'nt already, under Bush.
So Obama's getting ready to divert a huge portion of the resources searching for OBL and killing the Taliban, to attack another country based on faulty WMD intel?
That fvcker. What a copy cat.
;) ;D
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usa simply should reconsider its incestious relationship with israel, its mainly because of that the hatred against america is so huge.
So you're basically suggesting USA should treat Israel like any other country in the Middle East?
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Still fearmongering past retirement, have to give him an A+ for effort
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Still fearmongering past retirement, have to give him an A+ for effort
The dude needs to just go away and have a heart attack already.
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How can Cheney brag about protecting the country when he and his proxy Bush let the country be attacked multiple times before he ever bothered to convene his counter-terrorism task force
I am always amazed how people act like they were all great at protecting the nation - sheer fact here - Bush/Cheney's admin oversaw the largest and most deathly attack on US soil in recent years. 3,000 dead people on their watch, sent 4,000 more citizens to die, and NEVER even got Bin Laden....
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I am always amazed how people act like they were all great at protecting the nation - sheer fact here - Bush/Cheney's admin oversaw the largest and most deathly attack on US soil in recent years. 3,000 dead people on their watch, sent 4,000 more citizens to die, and NEVER even got Bin Laden....
Too much common sense for this forum CQ!
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No VP in history has come out and said the new president isn't protecting americans.
So yeah, kinda classless. Designed to frighten the electorate.
in reality, all it does is make people stop and say "What is worse... obammer's spending, or all of Bush's bullshit?"
I got a feeling that at least 51% of people are still more annoyed by Bush, as the election results showed. Dick keeps this up every week, and he might giftwrap election 2012 for obama.
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Wow, he predicted an attack just like that Biden fellow. Two peas in a pod!
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No VP in history has come out and said the new president isn't protecting americans.
So yeah, kinda classless. Designed to frighten the electorate.
in reality, all it does is make people stop and say "What is worse... obammer's spending, or all of Bush's bullshit?"
I got a feeling that at least 51% of people are still more annoyed by Bush, as the election results showed. Dick keeps this up every week, and he might giftwrap election 2012 for obama.
I agree. Just more fear tactics.
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“When we get people who are more concerned about reading the rights to an Al Qaeda terrorist than they are with protecting the United States against people who are absolutely committed to do anything they can to kill Americans, then I worry,” Cheney said.
Wow - what a piece of human garbage Cheney is.
First he lies (no one is reading Miranda rights to terrorists) and than basically says that the POTUS cares more about terrorists than protecting the country ???
WTF is wrong with this guy?
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Wow - what a piece of human garbage Cheney is.
First he lies (no one is reading Miranda rights to terrorists) and than basically says that the POTUS cares more about terrorists than protecting the country ???
WTF is wrong with this guy?
Attack politics. ::). Why can't politicians put these petty tactics aside and work together and accomplish something? I guess one upping each other has a larger priority than the country.
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He's going to Dubai (not India) now anyway?
So what's he care?
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iffff they will ever find bin laden, theres no chance in hell that they would get him alive, if hes still alive.
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cheney = lost credibility long time ago.
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One thing they said was there are gov documents that prove the intense interrogation techniques gave us valuable terrorist information. Whatever your opinion of Cheney, its the policies he is referring too and that should be the focus of debate.
On one hand, we risk violation of civil rights and a negative impression of America.
On the other hand, we may miss valuable terrorist information about attacks that threaten the lives of Americans, we may appear weak and passive, and may be more vunerable to attacks.
Its not a black and white issue. I think thats what Obama has seen in taking office. Its easy to criticize from the sidelines of academia but when you see the intell and see the threats up front and know lives depend on your decisions, you may reconsider or at least alter your actions.
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One thing they said was there is gov documents that prove the intense interrogation techniques gave us valuable terrorist information. Whatever your opinion of Cheney, its the policies he is referring too and that should be the focus of debate.
On one hand, we risk violation of civil rights and a negative impression of America.
On the other hand, we may miss valuable terrorist information about attacks that threaten the lives of Americans, we may appear weak and passive, and may be more vunerable to attacks.
Its not a black and white issue. I think thats what Obama has seen in taking office. Its easy to criticize from the sidelines of academia but when you see the intell and see the threats up front and know lives depend on your decisions, you may reconsider or at least alter your actions.
say whatever you will about waterboarding, "enhanced interrogation" etc... there is absolutely no justification for Cheney making this kind of public statement.
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I bet the bleeding hearts hate the show "24" because the Jack Bauer character is always violating the terrorists' Civil rights!
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I bet the bleeding hearts hate the show "24" because the Jack Bauer character is always violating the terrorists' Civil rights!
fyi - TV is not real
who cares what happens on TV
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fyi - TV is not real
who cares what happens on TV
Actually the show has depicted some pretty realistic scenarios of terrorist attacks including Nuclear strikes, biological weapons, etc. Maybe it's not real, but it shows what could actually happen and perhaps serve as a wakeup call for those Naive fools who value the Civil Liberties of Islamic fanatics over innocent lives.
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Actually the show has depicted some pretty realistic scenarios of terrorist attacks including Nuclear strikes, biological weapons, etc. Maybe it's not real, but it shows what could actually happen and perhaps serve as a wakeup call for those Naive fools who value the Civil Liberties of Islamic fanatics over innocent lives.
I've seen some realistic movies about alien invasions too.
no one (and certainly no country) should look to a TV show for guidance on how to conduct themselves in real life
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I've seen some realistic movies about alien invasions too.
no one (and certainly no country) should look to a TV show for guidance on how to conduct themselves in real life
lmao
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BS! Islamic terror spread to Europe , Asia and the Pacific long ago.
As I have said, Obama need to read The Prince, as Machiavelli notes there that one of the most fearsome and most powerful things is someone who doesn't mind if he die in order to get his goal.
This is why you cannot expect to treat this people as some regular criminals, these people don't need the same opportunity window that a regular criminal need , it's a totally different game.
you read it..why arent you president.
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And Biden said the following:
“Mark my words, It will not be six months before the world tests Barack Obama like they did John Kennedy. The world is looking. We’re about to elect a brilliant 47-year-old senator president of the United States of America. Remember I said it standing here if you don’t remember anything else I said. Watch, we’re gonna have an international crisis, a generated crisis, to test the mettle of this guy.”
"He's going to have to make some really tough, I don't know what the decision's gonna be, but I promise you it will occur. As a student of history, and I have served with seven Presidents. I guarentee you it's gonna happen."
“I can give you at least four or five scenarios from where it might originate, and he’s gonna need help."
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And Biden said the following:
“Mark my words, It will not be six months before the world tests Barack Obama like they did John Kennedy. The world is looking. We’re about to elect a brilliant 47-year-old senator president of the United States of America. Remember I said it standing here if you don’t remember anything else I said. Watch, we’re gonna have an international crisis, a generated crisis, to test the mettle of this guy.”
"He's going to have to make some really tough, I don't know what the decision's gonna be, but I promise you it will occur. As a student of history, and I have served with seven Presidents. I guarentee you it's gonna happen."
“I can give you at least four or five scenarios from where it might originate, and he’s gonna need help."
THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well since Bin Laden said he is gonna attack...guess me just have to go after um...lets see...Hugo Chaves?
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Do we know for sure that Osama Bin Laden is still alive?
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And Biden said the following:
“Mark my words, It will not be six months before the world tests Barack Obama like they did John Kennedy. The world is looking. We’re about to elect a brilliant 47-year-old senator president of the United States of America. Remember I said it standing here if you don’t remember anything else I said. Watch, we’re gonna have an international crisis, a generated crisis, to test the mettle of this guy.”
"He's going to have to make some really tough, I don't know what the decision's gonna be, but I promise you it will occur. As a student of history, and I have served with seven Presidents. I guarentee you it's gonna happen."
“I can give you at least four or five scenarios from where it might originate, and he’s gonna need help."
Also an unnecesary commnent but I believe this was made in private and then somehow leaked.
Not exactly the same as Cheney saying this in an interview which he knows will be made public
Also, where's the part where he lies about reading rights to terrorists or the part where he says the President cares more about terroritst rights rather than protecting America?
That's the truly disgusting part of Cheney's comments
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Also an unnecesary commnent but I believe this was made in private and then somehow leaked.
Not exactly the same as Cheney saying this in an interview which he knows will be made public
Also, where's the part where he lies about reading rights to terrorists or the part where he says the President cares more about terroritst rights rather than protecting America?
That's the truly disgusting part of Cheney's comments
Some pretty bad spin. He made the comments to "Democratic fundraisers," so no they weren't "private" comments that were "somehow leaked." http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/10/20/biden-predicts-early-crisis-will-test-obama/
No difference between Biden's and Cheney's comments.
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Some pretty bad spin. He made the comments to "Democratic fundraisers," so no they weren't "private" comments that were "somehow leaked." http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/10/20/biden-predicts-early-crisis-will-test-obama/
No difference between Biden's and Cheney's comments.
there's a huge difference.
do you even read your own links?
Fundraisers are generally closed to the media's cameras, though print journalists are usually allowed in. Biden appeared to forget Sunday night's fundraiser wasn't closed to reporters, saying, "I probably shouldn't have said all this because it dawned on me that the press is here." Moments later, he ended his remarks.
First Biden was not giving an interview to a reporter and most importantly he did not say the President was more concerned about the terrorists than protecting America.
::)
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there's a huge difference.
do you even read your own links?
Fundraisers are generally closed to the media's cameras, though print journalists are usually allowed in. Biden appeared to forget Sunday night's fundraiser wasn't closed to reporters, saying, "I probably shouldn't have said all this because it dawned on me that the press is here." Moments later, he ended his remarks.
First Biden was not giving an interview to a reporter and most importantly he did not say the President was more concerned about the terrorists than protecting America.
::)
Did you even read what you posted?? lol.
"I probably shouldn't have said all this because it dawned on me that the press is here."
The press was in the room. The comments weren't private. ::)
Even without the press, you can't make "private" comments to a room full of fundraisers. ::)
But it doesn't surprise me that you "believe this was made in private and then somehow leaked."
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Did you even read what you posted?? lol.
"I probably shouldn't have said all this because it dawned on me that the press is here."
The press was in the room. The comments weren't private. ::)
Even without the press, you can't make "private" comments to a room full of fundraisers. ::)
But it doesn't surprise me that you "believe this was made in private and then somehow leaked."
of course I read it. I excerpted it and posted it.
The difference is Biden made a comment that was not intended for release to the public (you can tell this by his own acknowledgement) "I probably shouldn't have said all this because it dawned on me that the press is here."
Cheney gave an interview explicity for release to the public
Cheney also added the part where he says the President is more concerned about terrorists than protecting America.
This is the point in our exchanges where I might as well explain this to my dog than try to explain it to you for the 3rd time now.
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of course I read it. I excerpted it and posted it.
The difference is Biden made a comment that was not intended for release to the public (you can tell this by his own acknowledgement) "I probably shouldn't have said all this because it dawned on me that the press is here."
Cheney gave an interview explicity for release to the public
Cheney also added the part where he says the President is more concerned about terrorists than protecting America.
This is the point in our exchanges where I might as well explain this to my dog than try to explain it to you for the 3rd time now.
So you maintain that Biden's statements were "made in private and then somehow leaked"? Even though the press was in the room. Even though he was in a room full of fundraisers. Geeze. I give up. This is why I rarely have exchanges with you. ::)
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So you maintain that Biden's statements were "made in private and then somehow leaked"? Even though the press was in the room. Even though he was in a room full of fundraisers. Geeze. I give up. This is why I rarely have exchanges with you. ::)
No, I'll amend that. I was going off my recollection that the comment was not intended for the public
Bidens statement was made in error because he forgot that the press were there.
The difference is intention. He did not intend to make a statement to be released to the public.
Cheney made a statement fully intending it to be released to the public.
You keep ignoring the worst part of Cheney's comment which is the part I have problem with.
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Dude, its pretty damn similar. They both admit there is a high probability of a terrorist threat during this presidency. You can backtrack all you want straw but Biden admits his comments were public. When you are a politician talking to a big group of people in a public form, its public.
The difference is that Cheney was defending interrogation techniques that were used under his administration.
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No, I'll amend that. I was going off my recollection that the comment was not intended for the public
Bidens statement was made in error because he forgot that the press were there.
The difference is intention. He did not intend to make a statement to be released to the public.
Cheney made a statement fully intending it to be released to the public.
You keep ignoring the worst part of Cheney's comment which is the part I have problem with.
Are you serious?? The VP made a statement in a public place to a room full of strangers and he intended the statements to be private? If you really believe that then you're more dense than I originally thought. :-\
That would also make the VP pretty dumb if he didn't believe his comments would be repeated. On the other hand, this is the same man who said this:
He probably thought those comments were "private" too. ::)
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Dude, its pretty damn similar. They both admit there is a high probability of a terrorist threat during this presidency. You can backtrack all you want straw but Biden admits his comments were public. When you are a politician talking to a big group of people in a public form, its public.
The difference is that Cheney was defending interrogation techniques that were used under his administration.
I'm not excusing Bidens comments. It was stupid
Cheney's comment was also stupid but even worse it was intentional and trying to justify torture doesn't excuse it (and as usual -we have no proof that his dubious claim is even true)
By far, the worst part were his comments that the President cares more about terrorist rights than protecting America.
There is no comparible comment by Biden
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Dude, its pretty damn similar. They both admit there is a high probability of a terrorist threat during this presidency. You can backtrack all you want straw but Biden admits his comments were public. When you are a politician talking to a big group of people in a public form, its public.
The difference is that Cheney was defending interrogation techniques that were used under his administration.
Absolutely correct.
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Are you serious?? The VP made a statement in a public place to a room full of strangers and he intended the statements to be private? If you really believe that then you're more dense than I originally thought. :-\
That would also make the VP pretty dumb if he didn't believe his comments would be repeated. On the other hand, this is the same man who said this:
He probably thought those comments were "private" too. ::)
he acknowledged he never should have said them in the first place
he made mistake (albeit a stupid one).
Cheney made no mistake
He fully intended his comments and his accusation of the Presidents loyalties to be released to the public
the difference is Night and Day
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If there are documents that prove the interrogations led to vital intell, they should release them.
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If there are documents that prove the interrogations led to vital intell, they should release them.
yes they should but you know they never will
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you read it..why arent you president.
You're so witty, good thing you can vote and affect the world, we need more people like you bringing us the welcomed change.
Oh wait...NOT.
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Biden is an old legend. Served 7 presidents and knows the inside track better than most. He knows that some things are planned ahead of time and let the cat out of the bag. He knows whos running this world.....and it aint the US President....
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Real power is brokered in private
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I couldn't resist:
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I couldn't resist:
goodness gracious he is a raging jack ass i dont know how you watch that drama queen straw.
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goodness gracious he is a raging jack ass i dont know how you watch that drama queen straw.
funny - I like him and think Hannity, O'Reily and Rush and the jackasses.
To each his own
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funny - I like him and think Hannity, O'Reily and Rush and the jackasses.
To each his own
i dont watch hannity or listen to rush b/c they are just as bipartisan as that retard...oreily is good
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funny - I like him and think Hannity, O'Reily and Rush and the jackasses.
To each his own
Why, cause they're not afraid to speak the truth, unlike your liberal storytellers.......
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Why, cause they're not afraid to speak the truth, unlike your liberal storytellers.......
no actually because they are entertaining and factual
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Former Vice President Dick Cheney warned that there is a “high probability” that terrorists will attempt a catastrophic nuclear or biological attack in coming years, and said he fears the Obama administration’s policies will make it more likely the attempt will succeed.
In an interview Tuesday with Politico, Cheney unyieldingly defended the Bush administration’s support for the Guantanamo Bay prison and coercive interrogation of terrorism suspects.
And he asserted that President Obama will either backtrack on his stated intentions to end those policies or put the country at risk in ways more severe than most Americans — and, he charged, many members of Obama’s own team — understand.
“When we get people who are more concerned about reading the rights to an Al Qaeda terrorist than they are with protecting the United States against people who are absolutely committed to do anything they can to kill Americans, then I worry,” Cheney said.
Protecting the country’s security is “a tough, mean, dirty, nasty business,” he said. “These are evil people. And we’re not going to win this fight by turning the other cheek.”
Is he warning or making a promise. Me thinks Darth and his minion are plotting :D
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One thing they said was there are gov documents that prove the intense interrogation techniques gave us valuable terrorist information.
Is this the same 'they' that said there were WMD's in Iraq???? Come off it. Torture has been proven to do more harm than good. All it does is harden the resolve of the enemy and draw a lightning rod of criticism from the international community (thus hampering any future joint military efforts) and give an easy sell to potential terrorists (hey look what the US is going to our people lets get them attitude) Interrogation is one thing but torture is out of the question wrong.
Oh and quick question to those supporting Cheney's policy's - Was it okay for the Japanese to torture US soldiers in WW2? How about in Vietnam, surely you must believe that the Vietnamese were justified in torturing John McCain after all they were defending their country too weren't they? Just like against these starved American soldiers right?
(http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/08_04/americaPOW_468x376.jpg)
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http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=217694&title=why-are-you-such-a-dick-audio
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Is this the same 'they' that said there were WMD's in Iraq???? Come off it. Torture has been proven to do more harm than good. All it does is harden the resolve of the enemy and draw a lightning rod of criticism from the international community (thus hampering any future joint military efforts) and give an easy sell to potential terrorists (hey look what the US is going to our people lets get them attitude) Interrogation is one thing but torture is out of the question wrong.
Oh and quick question to those supporting Cheney's policy's - Was it okay for the Japanese to torture US soldiers in WW2? How about in Vietnam, surely you must believe that the Vietnamese were justified in torturing John McCain after all they were defending their country too weren't they? Just like against these starved American soldiers right?
(http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/08_04/americaPOW_468x376.jpg)
LOL sorry hoss beatings, starvation, beheadings arent in the same league as water boarding and sleep deprivation if you dont understand that there nothing more to say.
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LOL sorry hoss beatings, starvation, beheadings are in the same league as water boarding and sleep deprivation if you dont understand that there nothing more to say.
Complete trash from you once again. Torture is torture is torture. Stop trying to put some BS spin on it it's fundamentally the same regardless of execution.
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Complete trash from you once again. Torture is torture is torture. Stop trying to put some BS spin on it it's fundamentally the same regardless of execution.
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Complete trash from you once again. Torture is torture is torture. Stop trying to put some BS spin on it it's fundamentally the same regardless of execution.
define torture brain child?
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define torture brain child?
anybody define torture for me?
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define torture brain child?
For the purposes of this Convention, torture means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession...
http://www.hrweb.org/legal/cat.html
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For the purposes of this Convention, torture means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession...
http://www.hrweb.org/legal/cat.html
so detaining a person is deemed torture? fuck i know if i couldnt come and go as a want i would mentally break down thats the same as beating and starving a person? gezzz louise whos gimmick are you?
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so detaining a person is deemed torture? fuck i know if i couldnt come and go as a want i would mentally break down thats the same as beating and starving a person? gezzz louise whos gimmick are you?
Not at all. Detaining a person legally is fine. That person still has rights though whether you dislike them or not, and torturing them is a violation of those rights. Whether that torture is done by Americans, Japanese, Vietnamese etc is not the point. It's like saying it's okay to rape someone if you only use you insert you hands instead of your penis. It's still rape anyway you look at it and water boarding is still torture.
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Not at all. Detaining a person legally is fine. That person still has rights though whether you dislike them or not, and torturing them is a violation of those rights. Whether that torture is done by Americans, Japanese, Vietnamese etc is not the point. It's like saying it's okay to rape someone if you only use you insert you hands instead of your penis. It's still rape anyway you look at it and water boarding is still torture.
no can inflict severe mental pain could it not? I.E. torture under your definition...LOL the idea that beatings and starvation are equivilant to waterboarding and sleep deprivation is assinine and not even the most liberal of ppl would agree with that. I understand your point that its all "torture" but as ive shown keeping somebody against their will could be torture, handcuffing, blindfolding...are those the same as beatings and rapings too?
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no can inflict severe mental pain could it not? I.E. torture under your definition...LOL the idea that beatings and starvation are equivilant to waterboarding and sleep deprivation is assinine and not even the most liberal of ppl would agree with that. I understand your point that its all "torture" but as ive shown keeping somebody against their will could be torture, handcuffing, blindfolding...are those the same as beatings and rapings too?
You really don't get it do you? You'd like to defend your stance with irrelevant questions like "does this count?" I mean really. You know it's Torture, I know it's Torture whether or not it's the same brutality is not relevant at all. And it's not under my definition it's the UN's agreed upon definition not mine, not yours, not Cheney's.
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You really don't get it do you? You'd like to defend your stance with irrelevant questions like "does this count?" I mean really. You know it's Torture, I know it's Torture whether or not it's the same brutality is not relevant at all. And it's not under my definition it's the UN's agreed upon definition not mine, not yours, not Cheney's.
i asked a simple question and you go off b/c you know my point invalidates yours...torture as defined by the UN can be anything that causes severe pain physical or mental with the intention of obtaining info...how does somebody having a mental breakdown b/c the are being kept prisoner not meet that definition plz tell me?
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i asked a simple question and you go off b/c you know my point invalidates yours...torture as defined by the UN can be anything that causes severe pain physical or mental with the intention of obtaining info...how does somebody having a mental breakdown not b/c the are being kept prisoner not meet that definition plz tell me?
Honestly you can't answer it yourself? If the person was being held captive illegally for the SOLE purpose of giving information (i.e. they hadn't commited a crime but were held captive because they may know something) then yes it could under the UN definition become defined as torture. If they were being held captive because they are a POW, broke the law, committed a crime etc then it wouldn't be. (They are held for a legal and just reason any mental breakdown as a result of being held captive wouldn't constitute torture) You answered the question yourself with the "intention of obtaining info" part.
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Honestly you can't answer it yourself? If the person was being held captive illegally for the SOLE purpose of giving information (i.e. they hadn't commited a crime but were held captive because they may know something) then yes it could under the UN definition become defined as torture. If they were being held captive because they are a POW, broke the law, committed a crime etc then it wouldn't be. (They are held for a legal and just reason any mental breakdown as a result of being held captive wouldn't constitute torture) You answered the question yourself with the "intention of obtaining info" part.
you are qualifying the UN definition and you have no right to do so this makes it your opinion...the UN definition of torture says nothing about legally or illegally holding a person thats your inturpretation...Just like sleep deprivation and water boarding not causing SEVERE pain in mine meaning they are not torture.
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you are qualifying the UN definition and you have no right to do so this makes it your opinion...the UN definition of torture says nothing about legally or illegally holding a person thats your inturpretation...Just like sleep deprivation and water boarding not causing SEVERE pain in mine meaning they are not torture.
Okay by your thoughts then the Vietnamese didn't use torture either cause according to them it wasn't severe pain it was only mild.
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Okay by your thoughts then the Vietnamese didn't use torture either cause according to them it wasn't severe pain it was only mild.
lol you mean the beatings, starvation, amputations, killings by what do you mean?
do you really believe sleep deprevation and waterboarding constitute severe pain?
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lol you mean the beatings, starvation, amputations, killings by what do you mean?
do you really believe sleep deprevation and waterboarding constitute severe pain?
Yes i do.
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Yes i do.
::) goodness gracious
LOL well dont ever go to college b/c they torture the shit out of you, dont join the military or police or fire department either b/c you will get tortured...LOL gezzz louise man serously
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Unbelievable. Here you have a group of people that are not even classified as POW's. These are individuals that are Islamic fanatics that televise themselves slowly cutting the heads off people. They would not hesitate to drop a nuclear weapon or use biological weapons on us. They target innocent civilians. They are the worst examples of humanity on the planet and people are getting upset over waterboarding? I would pay good money to watch one of these maniacs really get tortured. They should gouge these shithead's eyeballs out. I bet if you asked anyone who lost someone in 9/11 if they thought it was inhumane to pretend to drown one of these freaks, they'd laugh at you.
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Unbelievable. Here you have a group of people that are not even classified as POW's. These are individuals that are Islamic fanatics that televise themselves slowly cutting the heads off people. They would not hesitate to drop a nuclear weapon or use biological weapons on us. They target innocent civilians. They are the worst examples of humanity on the planet and people are getting upset over waterboarding? I would pay good money to watch one of these maniacs really get tortured. They should gouge these shithead's eyeballs out. I bet if you asked anyone who lost someone in 9/11 if they thought it was inhumane to pretend to drown one of these freaks, they'd laugh at you.
LOL careful now you might hurt kcballers feelings and then be called a torturer
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LOL careful now you might hurt kcballers feelings and then be called a torturer
Yeah, I went a little far there, but I can imagine this scenario unfolding. "Uh, Mr. president, we have in custody Mohammed here, and he apparently knows the location of the nuclear weapon that will be detonated in 2 hours. What do we do?"
"Ummmmm. did you ask him pretty please?"
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Yeah, I went a little far there, but I can imagine this scenario unfolding. "Uh, Mr. president, we have in custody Mohammed here, and he apparently knows the location of the nuclear weapon that will be detonated in 2 hours. What do we do?"
"Ummmmm. did you ask him pretty please?"
Unofficial torture is fine, but for us to officially torture people. :-X
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Unofficial torture is fine, but for us to officially torture people. :-X
It only became official because it got leaked. You think in the last 40 years, waterboarding is all the CIA has used to extract info? With modern information technology, it's hard to keep a lid on anything.
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I used to go nuts now to..now I shake my head. They don't get it.
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libs act like we are running around beating, raping, starving, beheading everyone we come in contact with. Truth is it doesnt happen very often and they dont go around waterboarding just anybody.
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libs act like we are running around beating, raping, starving, beheading everyone we come in contact with. Truth is it doesnt happen very often and they dont go around waterboarding just anybody.
Why is every thing liberal this liberal that with you fucking morons. I mean my god you stupid fucks are as brainwashed as the liberals you claim to hate. Anyone that questions US foreign policy is a liberal. LOL. Anyone that doesn't want to see the enivornment trashed is a liberal? I thought I heard it all from you morons but then BezerkerFury used the word "Keynesian" the other day. LMAO! HAHA. That term is WAY above his pay grade. He probably doesn't even fucking understand what Keynesian economics really is. Just as you dumbasses throw around the term liberal. Just because someone is for government fiscal responsibility they are a hardcore hawkish neocon? You fuckers are too stupid for your own good. You idiots are as brainwashed as the liberals you love to bash.
P.S. I'm all for waterboarding! I guess Im a conservative? LOL. ::)
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If waterboarding isnt torture, feel free to volunteer.
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Why is every thing liberal this liberal that with you fucking morons. I mean my god you stupid fucks are as brainwashed as the liberals you claim to hate. Anyone that questions US foreign policy is a liberal. LOL. Anyone that doesn't want to see the enivornment trashed is a liberal? I thought I heard it all from you morons but then BezerkerFury used the word "Keynesian" the other day. LMAO! HAHA. That term is WAY above his pay grade. He probably doesn't even fucking understand what Keynesian economics really is. Just as you dumbasses throw around the term liberal. Just because someone is for government fiscal responsibility they are a hardcore hawkish neocon? You fuckers are too stupid for your own good. You idiots are as brainwashed as the liberals you love to bash.
P.S. I'm all for waterboarding! I guess Im a conservative? LOL. ::)
Well, can you think of anyone who is more concerned with the civil rights of terrorists than national security that isn't a liberal? Can you think of anyone who sympathizes with some ghetto gangbanger thats robbed and killed people, and somehow blames society for the behavior of savage thugs, who's not a liberal. I hate using sterotype labels myself but it's pretty unavoidable. It certainly has nothing to do with intellect. I can converse very articulately on a variety of subjects from biology, philosophy, history, nutrition, chemistry and international finance . Not everyone who doesn't share the left wing worldview is an uneducated moron.
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Well, can you think of anyone who is more concerned with the civil rights of terrorists than national security that isn't a liberal? Can you think of anyone who sympathizes with some ghetto gangbanger thats robbed and killed people, and somehow blames society for the behavior of savage thugs, who's not a liberal. I hate using sterotype labels myself but it's pretty unavoidable. It certainly has nothing to do with intellect. I can converse very articulately on a variety of subjects from biology, philosophy, history, nutrition, chemistry and international finance . Not everyone who doesn't share the left wing worldview is an uneducated moron.
And those are very EXTREME views. Every political ideology has extreme views. There are as many right wing nutjobs as there are left wing. The point is most of the people that throw that term around loosely on this board aka HH6, BererkerFury, and others are just regurgitating what they see on FoxNews or hear from other people. They have no clue what the philosophical differences are between a "liberal" and a conservative. They just buy into the stupid stereotypes perpetuated by the media. Calling someone a liberal automatically makes that accuser tougher, more American, more Patriotic, more hardworking, more this more that. It's all bullshit.......Anyone who takes the extreme view on any subject is shortsighted. Just like everywhere around us.......nature......eco nomics..........relation ships...........BALANCE IS KEY! The yin and the yang. You can pick and choose good ideas from both political parties. I mean libertarians have some whacked, backassward ideology as well. That doesn't mean you throw out the baby with the bath water. It's like in America we've lost all common sense and moderation. Everything has to be extreme............hardc ore...........this or that. Bullshit! Life is gray. Our country is divided. And that's exactly how "they" want it.
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If waterboarding isnt torture, feel free to volunteer.
i would if it meant that we could waterboard these terrorist pricks without ppl getting their panties in a bunch, anyday of the fuking week.
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Why is every thing liberal this liberal that with you fucking morons. I mean my god you stupid fucks are as brainwashed as the liberals you claim to hate. Anyone that questions US foreign policy is a liberal. LOL. Anyone that doesn't want to see the enivornment trashed is a liberal? I thought I heard it all from you morons but then BezerkerFury used the word "Keynesian" the other day. LMAO! HAHA. That term is WAY above his pay grade. He probably doesn't even fucking understand what Keynesian economics really is. Just as you dumbasses throw around the term liberal. Just because someone is for government fiscal responsibility they are a hardcore hawkish neocon? You fuckers are too stupid for your own good. You idiots are as brainwashed as the liberals you love to bash.
P.S. I'm all for waterboarding! I guess Im a conservative? LOL. ::)
LOL dude get off your soap box and stfu stereotypes happen im not going to ask your views on everything under the sun. You stereotyped me as a moron, yet you know nothing of me, my beliefs, education or anything pot meet kettle.
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LOL dude get off your soap box and stfu stereotypes happen im not going to ask your views on everything under the sun. You stereotyped me as a moron, yet you know nothing of me, my beliefs, education or anything pot meet kettle.
Everything out of your mouth is liberal that liberal this.
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Everything out of your mouth is liberal that liberal this.
first off you obviously dont read my posts
second if the shoe fits wear it kcballer believes waterboarding and sleep deprivation cause severe pain and are equivilant to beatings, starvation and rapings. He also is in favor of a nation wide assault rifle ban im sorry but to me those two view points are wack job left bro.
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first off you obviously dont read my posts
second if the shoe fits wear it kcballer believes waterboarding and sleep deprivation cause severe pain and are equivilant to beatings, starvation and rapings. He also is in favor of a nation wide assault rifle ban im sorry but to me those two view points are wack job left bro.
stfu you stupid lib.
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That Biden character was talking about an upcoming attack as well!
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And those are very EXTREME views. Every political ideology has extreme views. There are as many right wing nutjobs as there are left wing. The point is most of the people that throw that term around loosely on this board aka HH6, BererkerFury, and others are just regurgitating what they see on FoxNews or hear from other people. They have no clue what the philosophical differences are between a "liberal" and a conservative. They just buy into the stupid stereotypes perpetuated by the media. Calling someone a liberal automatically makes that accuser tougher, more American, more Patriotic, more hardworking, more this more that. It's all bullshit.......Anyone who takes the extreme view on any subject is shortsighted. Just like everywhere around us.......nature......eco nomics..........relation ships...........BALANCE IS KEY! The yin and the yang. You can pick and choose good ideas from both political parties. I mean libertarians have some whacked, backassward ideology as well. That doesn't mean you throw out the baby with the bath water. It's like in America we've lost all common sense and moderation. Everything has to be extreme............hardc ore...........this or that. Bullshit! Life is gray. Our country is divided. And that's exactly how "they" want it.
Some good points there. I consider myself pretty balanced. I don't necessarily agree with conservatives on many issues concerning the environment. I don't agree with some of the policies that hinder science from using stem cell research. On the other hand, under the Clinton administration, there were policies of a left wing nature that sought to increase home ownership to irresponsible people, and those policies pressured the entire mortgage industry to lower their lending standards. As we all know these bad loans were repackaged as investment instruments and now because of this, our economy and the rest of the world's is in shambles. Also, I'm not happy with the standard liberal "soft on crime" approach and redistribution of wealth from hard working successful people to those who refuse to educate themselves, have numerous fatherless children, etc. I also believe that citizens should be allowed to arm themselves against criminals, who are going obtain weapons illegally anyways. I may be wrong, but it seems that liberals want to outlaw guns to everyone. My point is I don't agree 100% with every conservative view, and I mentioned the liberal policies I don't like.
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stfu you stupid lib.
NECON ass hat ;D
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And those are very EXTREME views. Every political ideology has extreme views. There are as many right wing nutjobs as there are left wing. The point is most of the people that throw that term around loosely on this board aka HH6, BererkerFury, and others are just regurgitating what they see on FoxNews or hear from other people. They have no clue what the philosophical differences are between a "liberal" and a conservative. They just buy into the stupid stereotypes perpetuated by the media. Calling someone a liberal automatically makes that accuser tougher, more American, more Patriotic, more hardworking, more this more that. It's all bullshit.......Anyone who takes the extreme view on any subject is shortsighted. Just like everywhere around us.......nature......eco nomics..........relation ships...........BALANCE IS KEY! The yin and the yang. You can pick and choose good ideas from both political parties. I mean libertarians have some whacked, backassward ideology as well. That doesn't mean you throw out the baby with the bath water. It's like in America we've lost all common sense and moderation. Everything has to be extreme............hardc ore...........this or that. Bullshit! Life is gray. Our country is divided. And that's exactly how "they" want it.
Fortunately or unfortunately, the only TV I watch is Scrubs, a few HBO shows and Big Bang Theory/How I Met Your Mother if I find time.
I find it funny that calling you Keynes because you think you're an economic genius is still bothering you. I mean, you surely think you're more of an authority on the economy than Obama's team.
LOL dude get off your soap box and stfu stereotypes happen im not going to ask your views on everything under the sun. You stereotyped me as a moron, yet you know nothing of me, my beliefs, education or anything pot meet kettle.
This little dweeb thinks he's better than everyone. He was bitching about the Super Bowl last week DrKaje knocked him down ten or fifteen pegs.
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Fortunately or unfortunately, the only TV I watch is Scrubs, a few HBO shows and Big Bang Theory/How I Met Your Mother if I find time.
I find it funny that calling you Keynes because you think you're an economic genius is still bothering you. I mean, you surely think you're more of an authority on the economy than Obama's team.
This little dweeb thinks he's better than everyone. He was bitching about the Super Bowl last week DrKaje knocked him down ten or fifteen pegs.
scrubs is a good show, wtf was he bitching about the superbowl for?
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NECON ass hat ;D
lol
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usa simply should reconsider its incestious relationship with israel, its mainly because of that the hatred against america is so huge.
SPOT ON!!!!
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Fortunately or unfortunately, the only TV I watch is Scrubs, a few HBO shows and Big Bang Theory/How I Met Your Mother if I find time.
I find it funny that calling you Keynes because you think you're an economic genius is still bothering you. I mean, you surely think you're more of an authority on the economy than Obama's team.
This little dweeb thinks he's better than everyone. He was bitching about the Super Bowl last week DrKaje knocked him down ten or fifteen pegs.
It doesn't bother me at all.....I don't susbscribe to Keynesian economic dogma no moreso than I do to Austrian economic dogma. What's funny is you throw arounnd words like "Keynes" without probably truly understanding what it means nor having really read anything on the subject. Much like you and your brethren throw around the term "liberal", "Islamofascist", and all the other silly propaganda-esque terms that are trendy nowadays.
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It doesn't bother me at all.....I don't susbscribe to Keynesian economic dogma no moreso than I do to Austrian economic dogma. What's funny is you throw arounnd words like "Keynes" without probably truly understanding what it means nor having really read anything on the subject. Much like you and your brethren throw around the term "liberal", "Islamofascist", and all the other silly propaganda-esque terms that are trendy nowadays.
would you like us to define every term you deem necessary again STFU and get off your high horse.
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would you like us to define every term you deem necessary again STFU and get off your high horse.
Don't throw around terms that are way above your comprehension.
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Don't throw around terms that are way above your comprehension.
i comprehend it just fine ass hat, dont jump to conclusions about things you know nothing about.
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Personally I think Cheney is spot on with his assessment.