Cheney warns of new attacks

[Straw Man]

One thing they said was there is gov documents that prove the intense interrogation techniques gave us valuable terrorist information.  Whatever your opinion of Cheney, its the policies he is referring too and that should be the focus of debate.
On one hand, we risk violation of civil rights and a negative impression of America.
On the other hand, we may miss valuable terrorist information about attacks that threaten the lives of Americans, we may appear weak and passive, and may be more vunerable to attacks.

Its not a black and white issue.  I think thats what Obama has seen in taking office.  Its easy to criticize from the sidelines of academia but when you see the intell and see the threats up front and know lives depend on your decisions, you may reconsider or at least alter your actions.

say whatever you will about waterboarding, "enhanced interrogation" etc...  there is absolutely no justification for Cheney making this kind of public statement. 

[The ChemistV2]

I bet the bleeding hearts hate the show "24" because the Jack Bauer character is always violating the terrorists' Civil rights!

[Straw Man]

I bet the bleeding hearts hate the show "24" because the Jack Bauer character is always violating the terrorists' Civil rights!

fyi - TV is not real

who cares what happens on TV

[The ChemistV2]

fyi - TV is not real

who cares what happens on TV

Actually the show has depicted some pretty realistic scenarios of terrorist attacks including Nuclear strikes, biological weapons, etc. Maybe it's not real, but it shows what could actually happen and perhaps serve as a wakeup call for those Naive fools who value the Civil Liberties of Islamic fanatics over innocent lives.

[Straw Man]

Actually the show has depicted some pretty realistic scenarios of terrorist attacks including Nuclear strikes, biological weapons, etc. Maybe it's not real, but it shows what could actually happen and perhaps serve as a wakeup call for those Naive fools who value the Civil Liberties of Islamic fanatics over innocent lives.

I've seen some realistic movies about alien invasions too.

no one (and certainly no country) should look to a TV show for guidance on how to conduct themselves in real life

[240 is Back]

I've seen some realistic movies about alien invasions too.

no one (and certainly no country) should look to a TV show for guidance on how to conduct themselves in real life

lmao

[Option D]

BS! Islamic terror spread to Europe , Asia and the Pacific long ago.

As I have said, Obama need to read The Prince, as Machiavelli notes there that one of the most fearsome and most powerful things is someone who doesn't mind if he die in order to get his goal.

This is why you cannot expect to treat this people as some regular criminals, these people don't need the same opportunity window that a regular criminal need , it's a totally different game.

you read it..why arent you president.

[Dos Equis]

And Biden said the following:

“Mark my words, It will not be six months before the world tests Barack Obama like they did John Kennedy. The world is looking. We’re about to elect a brilliant 47-year-old senator president of the United States of America. Remember I said it standing here if you don’t remember anything else I said. Watch, we’re gonna have an international crisis, a generated crisis, to test the mettle of this guy.”

"He's going to have to make some really tough, I don't know what the decision's gonna be, but I promise you it will occur. As a student of history, and I have served with seven Presidents. I guarentee you it's gonna happen."

“I can give you at least four or five scenarios from where it might originate, and he’s gonna need help."

[Option D]

And Biden said the following:

“Mark my words, It will not be six months before the world tests Barack Obama like they did John Kennedy. The world is looking. We’re about to elect a brilliant 47-year-old senator president of the United States of America. Remember I said it standing here if you don’t remember anything else I said. Watch, we’re gonna have an international crisis, a generated crisis, to test the mettle of this guy.”

"He's going to have to make some really tough, I don't know what the decision's gonna be, but I promise you it will occur. As a student of history, and I have served with seven Presidents. I guarentee you it's gonna happen."

“I can give you at least four or five scenarios from where it might originate, and he’s gonna need help."

THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well since Bin Laden said he is gonna attack...guess me just have to go after um...lets see...Hugo Chaves?

[shootfighter1]

Do we know for sure that Osama Bin Laden is still alive?

[Straw Man]

And Biden said the following:

“Mark my words, It will not be six months before the world tests Barack Obama like they did John Kennedy. The world is looking. We’re about to elect a brilliant 47-year-old senator president of the United States of America. Remember I said it standing here if you don’t remember anything else I said. Watch, we’re gonna have an international crisis, a generated crisis, to test the mettle of this guy.”

"He's going to have to make some really tough, I don't know what the decision's gonna be, but I promise you it will occur. As a student of history, and I have served with seven Presidents. I guarentee you it's gonna happen."

“I can give you at least four or five scenarios from where it might originate, and he’s gonna need help."

Also an unnecesary commnent but I believe this was made in private and then somehow leaked.

Not exactly the same as Cheney saying this in an interview which he knows will be made public

Also, where's the part where he lies about reading rights to terrorists or the part where he says the President cares more about terroritst rights rather than protecting America?

That's the truly disgusting part of Cheney's comments

[Dos Equis]

Also an unnecesary commnent but I believe this was made in private and then somehow leaked.

Not exactly the same as Cheney saying this in an interview which he knows will be made public

Also, where's the part where he lies about reading rights to terrorists or the part where he says the President cares more about terroritst rights rather than protecting America?

That's the truly disgusting part of Cheney's comments

Some pretty bad spin.  He made the comments to "Democratic fundraisers," so no they weren't "private" comments that were "somehow leaked."  http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/10/20/biden-predicts-early-crisis-will-test-obama/

No difference between Biden's and Cheney's comments. 

[Straw Man]

Some pretty bad spin.  He made the comments to "Democratic fundraisers," so no they weren't "private" comments that were "somehow leaked."  http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/10/20/biden-predicts-early-crisis-will-test-obama/

No difference between Biden's and Cheney's comments. 

there's a huge difference.

do you even read your own links?

Fundraisers are generally closed to the media's cameras, though print journalists are usually allowed in. Biden appeared to forget Sunday night's fundraiser wasn't closed to reporters, saying, "I probably shouldn't have said all this because it dawned on me that the press is here." Moments later, he ended his remarks.

First Biden was not giving an interview to a reporter and most importantly he did not say the President was more concerned about the terrorists than protecting America.


 

[Dos Equis]

there's a huge difference.

do you even read your own links?

Fundraisers are generally closed to the media's cameras, though print journalists are usually allowed in. Biden appeared to forget Sunday night's fundraiser wasn't closed to reporters, saying, "I probably shouldn't have said all this because it dawned on me that the press is here." Moments later, he ended his remarks.

First Biden was not giving an interview to a reporter and most importantly he did not say the President was more concerned about the terrorists than protecting America.


 

Did you even read what you posted??  lol. 

"I probably shouldn't have said all this because it dawned on me that the press is here."

The press was in the room.  The comments weren't private. 

Even without the press, you can't make "private" comments to a room full of fundraisers.   

But it doesn't surprise me that you "believe this was made in private and then somehow leaked." 

[Straw Man]

Did you even read what you posted??  lol. 

"I probably shouldn't have said all this because it dawned on me that the press is here."

The press was in the room.  The comments weren't private. 

Even without the press, you can't make "private" comments to a room full of fundraisers.   

But it doesn't surprise me that you "believe this was made in private and then somehow leaked." 

of course I read it.  I excerpted it and posted it.

The difference is Biden made a comment that was not intended for release to the public (you can tell this by his own acknowledgement) "I probably shouldn't have said all this because it dawned on me that the press is here."

Cheney gave an interview explicity for release to the public

Cheney also added the part where he says the President is more concerned about terrorists than protecting America.

This is the point in our exchanges where I might as well explain this to my dog than try to explain it to you for the 3rd time now.

[Dos Equis]

of course I read it.  I excerpted it and posted it.

The difference is Biden made a comment that was not intended for release to the public (you can tell this by his own acknowledgement) "I probably shouldn't have said all this because it dawned on me that the press is here."

Cheney gave an interview explicity for release to the public

Cheney also added the part where he says the President is more concerned about terrorists than protecting America.

This is the point in our exchanges where I might as well explain this to my dog than try to explain it to you for the 3rd time now.

So you maintain that Biden's statements were "made in private and then somehow leaked"?  Even though the press was in the room.  Even though he was in a room full of fundraisers.  Geeze.  I give up.  This is why I rarely have exchanges with you.      

[Straw Man]

So you maintain that Biden's statements were "made in private and then somehow leaked"?  Even though the press was in the room.  Even though he was in a room full of fundraisers.  Geeze.  I give up.  This is why I rarely have exchanges with you.      

No, I'll amend that.  I was going off my recollection that the comment was not intended for the public

Bidens statement was made in error because he forgot that the press were there.

The difference is intention.  He did not intend to make a statement to be released to the public.

Cheney made a statement fully intending it to be released to the public.

You keep ignoring the worst part of Cheney's comment which is the part I have problem with.

[shootfighter1]

Dude, its pretty damn similar.  They both admit there is a high probability of a terrorist threat during this presidency.  You can backtrack all you want straw but Biden admits his comments were public.  When you are a politician talking to a big group of people in a public form, its public.
The difference is that Cheney was defending interrogation techniques that were used under his administration.

[Dos Equis]

No, I'll amend that.  I was going off my recollection that the comment was not intended for the public

Bidens statement was made in error because he forgot that the press were there.

The difference is intention.  He did not intend to make a statement to be released to the public.

Cheney made a statement fully intending it to be released to the public.

You keep ignoring the worst part of Cheney's comment which is the part I have problem with.

Are you serious??  The VP made a statement in a public place to a room full of strangers and he intended the statements to be private?  If you really believe that then you're more dense than I originally thought.  

That would also make the VP pretty dumb if he didn't believe his comments would be repeated.  On the other hand, this is the same man who said this:

He probably thought those comments were "private" too.  

[Straw Man]

Dude, its pretty damn similar.  They both admit there is a high probability of a terrorist threat during this presidency.  You can backtrack all you want straw but Biden admits his comments were public.  When you are a politician talking to a big group of people in a public form, its public.
The difference is that Cheney was defending interrogation techniques that were used under his administration.

I'm not excusing Bidens comments.  It was stupid

Cheney's comment was also stupid but even worse it was intentional and trying to justify torture doesn't excuse it (and as usual -we have no proof that his dubious claim is even true)

By far, the worst part were his comments that the President cares more about terrorist rights than protecting America.

There is no comparible comment by Biden

[Dos Equis]

Dude, its pretty damn similar.  They both admit there is a high probability of a terrorist threat during this presidency.  You can backtrack all you want straw but Biden admits his comments were public.  When you are a politician talking to a big group of people in a public form, its public.
The difference is that Cheney was defending interrogation techniques that were used under his administration.

Absolutely correct. 

[Straw Man]

Are you serious??  The VP made a statement in a public place to a room full of strangers and he intended the statements to be private?  If you really believe that then you're more dense than I originally thought.  

That would also make the VP pretty dumb if he didn't believe his comments would be repeated.  On the other hand, this is the same man who said this:

He probably thought those comments were "private" too.  

he acknowledged he never should have said them in the first place

he made mistake (albeit a stupid one).

Cheney made no mistake

He fully intended his comments and his accusation of the Presidents loyalties to be released to the public

the difference is Night and Day

[shootfighter1]

If there are documents that prove the interrogations led to vital intell, they should release them.

[Straw Man]

If there are documents that prove the interrogations led to vital intell, they should release them.

yes they should but you know they never will

[IFBBwannaB]

you read it..why arent you president.

You're so witty, good thing you can vote and affect the world, we need more people like you bringing us the welcomed change.

Oh wait...NOT.