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Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Religious Debates & Threads => Topic started by: Agnostic007 on March 01, 2018, 10:34:33 PM
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While MOS has all the logical reason in the world to leave, I'm even thinking of dropping this place, MOS provides that beacon of morals and an angle of thinking from the believer, and Lord knows this place could use some morals regardless of the origin. We have butted heads and on almost every point disagree, but the discussions are always for the most part respectful and inquiring. While I wouldn't blame him one iota for packing up and leaving.. what place could possibly need him more than a board filled with bigotry and hatred?
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Agree
He should stay - I disagree with his beliefs,
He is a good poster - It would be a loss for getbig
Like wise yourself - Jeez we are nearly always at odds
With each other.
Would I like to see you leave NO - You also bring ideas
& views that make us think & you’re intelligent & articulate ( Sometimes ;D Ha ha )
Hope you both decided to stay.
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Agree
He should stay - I disagree with his beliefs,
He is a good poster - It would be a loss for getbig
Like wise yourself - Jeez we are nearly always at odds
With each other.
Would I like to see you leave NO - You also bring ideas
& views that make us think & you’re intelligent & articulate ( Sometimes ;D Ha ha )
Hope you both decided to stay.
you are correct, you and I disagree on many things. We've managed to work into a place where we can argue without being jerks about it. Thats something I don't mind at all
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What's up with MOS?
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you are correct, you and I disagree on many things. We've managed to work into a place where we can argue without being jerks about it. Thats something I don't mind at all
Thanks
For all our “Differences” I believe your a Good Person
And enjoy reading your views & posts ( sometimes ;D )
I like the fact you seldom resort to childish name calling.
Though you have Me on previous occasions. :'( Ha Ha
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MOS?
(http://tvfashioney.com/template/images/character_profile_pictures/mozzie.png)
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Thanks
For all our “Differences” I believe your a Good Person
And enjoy reading your views & posts ( sometimes ;D )
I like the fact you seldom resort to childish name calling.
Though you have Me on previous occasions. :'( Ha Ha
I do slide sometimes
Grinch, MOS is thinking of, maybe already has, left Getbig
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Maybe he's just busy for a little while, and he'll come back. He knows we love him on GB.
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Maybe he's just busy for a little while, and he'll come back. He knows we love him on GB.
that would be nice
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The best is when MOS said that he and his wife had a discussion about him leaving or staying on getbig haha lol
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The best is when MOS said that he and his wife had a discussion about him leaving or staying on getbig haha lol
In his defense... (this hurts a little) MOS took or takes his job here serious. He feels he has been called to spread the word and in his mind he believes he is doing good work for the Lord. He probably has a close relationship with his wife, and shared some of his exchanges here with her. Being an observer, she might have felt and rightly so, that he was spinning his wheels and the benefit wasn't outweighing the cost. 99% of the posters here don't mention a word of this forum to anyone at anytime outside of the forum, but apparently he felt and I'm not trying to make fun of him, he felt he was making headway for a good cause and would talk about it with his wife.
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In his defense... (this hurts a little) MOS took or takes his job here serious. He feels he has been called to spread the word and in his mind he believes he is doing good work for the Lord. He probably has a close relationship with his wife, and shared some of his exchanges here with her. Being an observer, she might have felt and rightly so, that he was spinning his wheels and the benefit wasn't outweighing the cost. 99% of the posters here don't mention a word of this forum to anyone at anytime outside of the forum, but apparently he felt and I'm not trying to make fun of him, he felt he was making headway for a good cause and would talk about it with his wife.
Agnostic007, you're alright. I've always thought so, even if we disagree on religion and politics...and probably on sports too. ;D
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Agnostic007, you're alright. I've always thought so, even if we disagree on religion and politics...and probably on sports too. ;D
and likely music and what good movies are... You're ok too
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Maybe she didn't like how it affected MOS. IMO, if a female believes you (as her spouse, mate, whatever) are being negatively drawn into something without clear benefit, then she's going to want to put a stop to it. She doesn't want you to be destroyed, under any circumstances, much less by your own energy.
I'll say this, though: MOS has made me stop and trip hard in my mind more than once. I love it when that happens and IME life doesn't provide nearly enough of those moments. It'll only get worse as communication is reduced to very short one-way (usually meaningless) exclamations, in an "I like!" and "I don't like!" stupefaction.
We're becoming dumb, man. Tragically stupid, and not by our own inclination.
But give MOS time to work it out. If he's meant to come back for more rounds, then it'll happen.
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Maybe she didn't like how it affected MOS. IMO, if a female believes you (as her spouse, mate, whatever) are being negatively drawn into something without clear benefit, then she's going to want to put a stop to it. She doesn't want you to be destroyed, under any circumstances, much less by your own energy.
I'll say this, though: MOS has made me stop and trip hard in my mind more than once. I love it when that happens and IME life doesn't provide nearly enough of those moments. It'll only get worse as communication is reduced to very short one-way (usually meaningless) exclamations, in an "I like!" and "I don't like!" stupefaction.
We're becoming dumb, man. Tragically stupid, and not by our own inclination.
But give MOS time to work it out. If he's meant to come back for more rounds, then it'll happen.
:)
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:)
The nature of internet message boards means that it's gonna remain unclear, at least somewhat, as to actual consequences with a true measure of connection to what's been said. That's what I meant. It goes for all of us, so it follows to say that MOS (being quite sincere, as he is) may gauge himself more than those who don't invest much in their thoughts.
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The nature of internet message boards means that it's gonna remain unclear, at least somewhat, as to actual consequences and true measure of connection to what's been said. That's what I meant. It goes for all of us, so it follows to say that MOS (being quite sincere, as he is) may gauge himself more than those who don't invest much in their thoughts.
The smiley face was unclear, there is no "like" button, I liked what you said in your post
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The smiley face was unclear, there is no "like" button, I liked what you said in your post
Just wanted to clear it up, because rereading that it looked a little snarky. Definitely not as it seems. He's a gentleman, doing what we'd expect him to do: keeping peace in his castle.
MOS is our boy on GB and we wish him well. Guaranteed everyone here respects him, while the rest of us probably can't claim for ourselves.
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Just wanted to clear it up, because rereading that it looked a little snarky. Definitely not as it seems. He's a gentleman, doing what we'd expect him to do: keeping peace in his castle.
MOS is our boy on GB and we wish him well. Guaranteed everyone here respects him, while the rest of us probably can't claim for ourselves.
I completely respect him. I just dont agree with him
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I completely respect him. I just dont agree with him
You two were usually very respectful in your discussions, yeah. Meaning you each did your part in that for one another. Right there, it shows very strong agreement on one of the most important things in life.
But if you could imagine yourself in his shoes, so to speak, based upon what you know about him from what he's said: At which point in his experience would you say he went in a way you find disagreeable?
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You two were usually very respectful in your discussions, yeah. Meaning you each did your part in that for one another. Right there, it shows very strong agreement on one of the most important things in life.
But if you could imagine yourself in his shoes, so to speak, based upon what you know about him from what he's said: At which point in his experience would you say he went in a way you find disagreeable?
What I meant is, I like him, he seems like a good guy, puts a lot of thought in responses that deserve some thought. He can debate a point without immediately turning it into an exchange of insults and name calling. So in that regard, I found nothing much disagreeable. What I mean by disagreeing with him is his religious belief. We probably agree on a great many things, just not that and that's ok
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What I meant is, I like him, he seems like a good guy, puts a lot of thought in responses that deserve some thought. He can debate a point without immediately turning it into an exchange of insults and name calling. So in that regard, I found nothing much disagreeable. What I mean by disagreeing with him is his religious belief. We probably agree on a great many things, just not that and that's ok
That's what I meant, too.
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Ag, referring to his experience which caused him to become the person he is, and how it came about, that is. To the point you'd find a clear split in agreeability comes into existence for you -- again, based on the things he's said regarding that time.
Btw, not trying to troll you, as I'm sure you know. I'm genuinely interested, simply to get a better idea of the world. Zero preconceived ideas are involved in this, for me.
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Ag, referring to his experience which caused him to become the person he is, and how it came about, that is. To the point you'd find a clear split in agreeability comes into existence for you -- again, based on the things he's said regarding that time.
Btw, not trying to troll you, as I'm sure you know. I'm genuinely interested, simply to get a better idea of the world. Zero preconceived ideas are involved in this, for me.
To be honest, my memory is very vague about his life story. I remember one time reading he had a near death experience and after that found god, but I could be wrong on that.
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To be honest, my memory is very vague about his life story. I remember one time reading he had a near death experience and after that found god, but I could be wrong on that.
Is that possibly because you'd already dismissed it, even before knowing it? Not through lack of respect for MOS, but more through disbelief of the idea as a whole.
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kind words and thank you
my time on GB is pretty much done, but since I still mod I check from time to time
but I know my discussion/debate is finished....I mean I would love to got into the "Religion is B.S." thread on the G&O and SHRED IT, but I'm not gonna. Everything in that thread I've already addressed over and over for years so there's no point. Few minds are changed and the majority of minds are made up even after solid answers are given to the questions/objections.
I'm concentrating my time on my family, my church, my work and my training.....GB occupied more than enough time in my life already.....good times, bad times and blah times but time to move on
I come on here once in awhile to continue to collect my old post history, check on mod stuff and when I'm done collecting my post history I'll simply walk away like Bill Bixby carrying his backpack on the Incredible Hulk tv series :)
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Is that possibly because you'd already dismissed it, even before knowing it? Not through lack of respect for MOS, but more through disbelief of the idea as a whole.
It's more likely I read it 4 or 5 years ago and as time goes by, memory fades. I can watch a movie sometimes that I have seen before and not recall all that happens... maybe it's just age.
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kind words and thank you
my time on GB is pretty much done, but since I still mod I check from time to time
but I know my discussion/debate is finished....I mean I would love to got into the "Religion is B.S." thread on the G&O and SHRED IT, but I'm not gonna. Everything in that thread I've already addressed over and over for years so there's no point. Few minds are changed and the majority of minds are made up even after solid answers are given to the questions/objections.
I'm concentrating my time on my family, my church, my work and my training.....GB occupied more than enough time in my life already.....good times, bad times and blah times but time to move on
I come on here once in awhile to continue to collect my old post history, check on mod stuff and when I'm done collecting my post history I'll simply walk away like Bill Bixby carrying his backpack on the Incredible Hulk tv series :)
I was picturing a Kieth Carradine Kung Fu walk off but Bixby works. I think you made a good choice
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It's more likely I read it 4 or 5 years ago and as time goes by, memory fades. I can watch a movie sometimes that I have seen before and not recall all that happens... maybe it's just age.
Meaning that you've seen it more than once, for sure, because it was only a couple of months ago that you were involved in responding to it (on a thread in which it'd just been posted).
But I suppose it's fair to say that if you don't believe in the idea itself (Do you?) then you couldn't be expected to be concerned for detail.
Btw: Do you deny God? If so, then what happened since the time you chose your username?
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kind words and thank you
my time on GB is pretty much done, but since I still mod I check from time to time
but I know my discussion/debate is finished....I mean I would love to got into the "Religion is B.S." thread on the G&O and SHRED IT, but I'm not gonna. Everything in that thread I've already addressed over and over for years so there's no point. Few minds are changed and the majority of minds are made up even after solid answers are given to the questions/objections.
I'm concentrating my time on my family, my church, my work and my training.....GB occupied more than enough time in my life already.....good times, bad times and blah times but time to move on
I come on here once in awhile to continue to collect my old post history, check on mod stuff and when I'm done collecting my post history I'll simply walk away like Bill Bixby carrying his backpack on the Incredible Hulk tv series :)
Hi, MOS. You know what they say about choosing battles. The reason to turn from the wrong ones is to cover your interest in the right ones.
So maybe the right battle is somewhere else for you, right now. But you can't say where it'll be in the future, necessarily. Maybe it'll turn out be here, as it's been known to happen that GB can get an interesting fight going. One worth driving a stake of truth into, which might otherwise go undone.
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kind words and thank you
my time on GB is pretty much done, but since I still mod I check from time to time
but I know my discussion/debate is finished....I mean I would love to got into the "Religion is B.S." thread on the G&O and SHRED IT, but I'm not gonna. Everything in that thread I've already addressed over and over for years so there's no point. Few minds are changed and the majority of minds are made up even after solid answers are given to the questions/objections.
I'm concentrating my time on my family, my church, my work and my training.....GB occupied more than enough time in my life already.....good times, bad times and blah times but time to move on
I come on here once in awhile to continue to collect my old post history, check on mod stuff and when I'm done collecting my post history I'll simply walk away like Bill Bixby carrying his backpack on the Incredible Hulk tv series :)
Hopefully you will reflect & stay
posting on less subjects or replying to less people.
We need more decent and level headed people on here
not less.
I have questioned & debated with you & as much as we may not agree
your replies have been courteous & expressed what you believe
And I've appreciated that & its made me Think.
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Meaning that you've seen it more than once, for sure, because it was only a couple of months ago that you were involved in responding to it (on a thread in which it'd just been posted).
But I suppose it's fair to say that if you don't believe in the idea itself (Do you?) then you couldn't be expected to be concerned for detail.
Btw: Do you deny God? If so, then what happened since the time you chose your username?
seems like there is some animosity coming from somewhere and I'm not sure why. If it is really important, I will go through the threads and get refreshed on MOS' story. Do I deny god? Not sure what you mean by that. I don't believe the biblical god, or for that matter any god we may have come up with, Mithras, Osiris, Isis, Jehovah, Allah etc are real.. but it's possible something exists..
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seems like there is some animosity coming from somewhere and I'm not sure why. If it is really important, I will go through the threads and get refreshed on MOS' story.
No, not at all. Just that you'd done quite a bit of back and forth with him, so I thought you were aware of the background involved. But once again, if you don't believe in the idea to begin with, it'd be easy to understand why you wouldn't necessarily pay it much mind.
Do I deny god? Not sure what you mean by that. I don't believe the biblical god, or for that matter any god we may have come up with, Mithras, Osiris, Isis, Jehovah, Allah etc are real.. but it's possible something exists..
Something, as in God?
If that's what you mean: Do you discount (for some reason, any reason) that potentially, at least, it is within communication for an individual?
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No, not at all. Just that you'd done quite a bit of back and forth with him, so I thought you were aware of the background involved. But once again, if you don't believe in the idea to begin with, it'd be easy to understand why you wouldn't necessarily pay it much mind.
Something, as in God?
If that's what you mean: Do you discount (for some reason, any reason) that potentially, at least, it is within communication for an individual?
I have no idea. I personally don't believe a supernatural being, or intelligent form has any real reason to communicate with us. I don't believe any of us are communicating with whatever it is if it's out there.
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I have no idea. I personally don't believe a supernatural being, or intelligent form has any real reason to communicate with us. I don't believe any of us are communicating with whatever it is if it's out there.
To believe you can't have a connection with God is in every practical sense a denial of God, though.
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To believe you can't have a connection with God is in every practical sense a denial of God, though.
I lack belief in a god, if that is also considered to be "a denial of god" ok
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I lack belief in a god, if that is also considered to be "a denial of god" ok
By saying "lack" to describe where you're at: Could you go into that a bit more if you don't mind?
BTW, I'm a little late to the Religious Debate Board party so I'm not 100% familiar with your ideas on the subject. Pardon it, please, if you have to retrace some of your ground.
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By saying "lack" to describe where you're at: Could you go into that a bit more if you don't mind?
BTW, I'm a little late to the Religious Debate Board party so I'm not 100% familiar with your ideas on the subject. Pardon it, please, if you have to retrace some of your ground.
I grew up going to Church of Christ, and then 1st Baptist. Baptized probably around 12 or so. I was a avid churchgoer through high school, even filled in on a few occasions for the preacher on Sundays. Later in life around 33 or 34 I had found myself drifted away from my relationship with God, not that I was doing anything wrong, I just wasn't studying the bible or witnessing like I felt a follower of Christ should. So one day I made a decision to re devote my life and get back into the word. I began reading the bible again, and reading or re reading books by Josh McDowell, C.S. Lewis and Lee Strobel. this time however I wanted to increase my knowledge of what non believers were thinking so that I might be prepared if the opportunity to witness to them came up. In the course of reading secular works on the subject I was surprised to learn claims, or evidences I had always thought were indisputable, were actually highly disputed by secular scholars and even some non secular scholars. Learning about the Nicean council in the 4th century where humans decided on what manuscripts to keep, what to declare as fake was interesting. I suppose that planted a seed and over the next couple years I considered that it was possible the bible wasn't entirely true. That eventually lead to me at some point reluctantly determining what was more likely, the bible is true, or a collection of manuscripts written my men of that time about what was happening and their attempts to rationalize it into something they could understand.
I decided that it wasn't enough just to want it to be true, but what was the likelihood based on all I had read about it both pro and con, that it was true. I decided it wasn't true. Eventually that lead to my lack of belief the bible god exists and pretty much all the ones we have put names to.. I believe those are creations of our own, the old saying, God didn't create us in his image, we created him in ours, holds true for me.
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I grew up going to Church of Christ, and then 1st Baptist. Baptized probably around 12 or so. I was a avid churchgoer through high school, even filled in on a few occasions for the preacher on Sundays. Later in life around 33 or 34 I had found myself drifted away from my relationship with God, not that I was doing anything wrong, I just wasn't studying the bible or witnessing like I felt a follower of Christ should. So one day I made a decision to re devote my life and get back into the word. I began reading the bible again, and reading or re reading books by Josh McDowell, C.S. Lewis and Lee Strobel. this time however I wanted to increase my knowledge of what non believers were thinking so that I might be prepared if the opportunity to witness to them came up. In the course of reading secular works on the subject I was surprised to learn claims, or evidences I had always thought were indisputable, were actually highly disputed by secular scholars and even some non secular scholars. Learning about the Nicean council in the 4th century where humans decided on what manuscripts to keep, what to declare as fake was interesting. I suppose that planted a seed and over the next couple years I considered that it was possible the bible wasn't entirely true. That eventually lead to me at some point reluctantly determining what was more likely, the bible is true, or a collection of manuscripts written my men of that time about what was happening and their attempts to rationalize it into something they could understand.
I decided that it wasn't enough just to want it to be true, but what was the likelihood based on all I had read about it both pro and con, that it was true. I decided it wasn't true. Eventually that lead to my lack of belief the bible god exists and pretty much all the ones we have put names to.. I believe those are creations of our own, the old saying, God didn't create us in his image, we created him in ours, holds true for me.
OK, so no I did not have an understanding of where you're at. I hadn't realized any of this.
Something I find very interesting, is that you often forward your ideas about it in the positive rather than the negative. Meaning to say that you sort of affirm a presence -- instead of doing what someone might expect: the opposite. You refer to a "lack" when you connect yourself with the idea, and you just referred to a relationship with God.
Why's that, would you say? What about it causes you to do that, as you're applying your thought to it?
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OK, so no I did not have an understanding of where you're at. I hadn't realized any of this.
Something I find very interesting, is that you often forward your ideas about it in the positive rather than the negative. Meaning to say that you sort of affirm a presence -- instead of doing what someone might expect: the opposite. You refer to a "lack" when you connect yourself with the idea, and you just referred to a relationship with God.
Why's that, would you say? What about it causes you to do that, as you're applying your thought to it?
I've realized over the years that phrasing it as "I lack belief in a god or gods" is the simplist form I can think of to communicate my current situation. Just as I lack belief in Santa or the Lochness Monster. If I say "I don't believe there is a god" it somehow gets interpreted as an action like I refuse to believe in a god for some reason.
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I've realized over the years that phrasing it as "I lack belief in a god or gods" is the simplist form I can think of to communicate my current situation. Just as I lack belief in Santa or the Lochness Monster. If I say "I don't believe there is a god" it somehow gets interpreted as an action like I refuse to believe in a god for some reason.
But it's true, right? You do think you've found some reason not to believe in God.
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But it's true, right? You do think you've found some reason not to believe in God.
In a nutshell, I think the evidence the bible is made up of oral fables passed on and finally making it into a book outweighs significantly any evidence the bible is an actually true accounting of what happened 2000-5000 years ago.
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In a nutshell, I think the evidence the bible is made up of oral fables passed on and finally making it into a book outweighs significantly any evidence the bible is an actually true accounting of what happened 2000-5000 years ago.
Is it that you'd rather not have someone attempt to defend each letter of a Bible? Maybe to avoid feeling bogged down in something you know s/he will be so heavily invested in, but that you already feel confident in knowing, say.
I'd like to figure out how your expressions of recognition/affirmation fit in to that.
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Is it that you'd rather not have someone attempt to defend each letter of a Bible? Maybe to avoid feeling bogged down in something you know s/he will be so heavily invested in, but that you already feel confident in knowing, say.
I'd like to figure out how your expressions of recognition/affirmation fit in to that.
Typically, most people I have gotten into discussions with were not well informed on any information that didn't originate from a apologist source. For example, they may say "The bible is true because the authors of the old testament predicted exactly or almost exactly things in the New Testament that happened, that couldn't be possible unless the prophets of the Old Testament had spiritual guidance. I know I've said that before in my youth.
When I point out the writers of the New Testament had access to , and knew very well what had been prophesied in the Old Testament and since the New Testament was written after Jesus' death; they could easily just fit the story to the prophecies, we move on to the next apologist argument and so on. At the end of the day, it's usually a waste of time for both of us. I truly have no interest in changing anyone's mind, as long as they aren't legislating their beliefs or forcing their religious beliefs and rituals on me. But if someone feels like they want to engage me in a civil discussion about it I certainly have been known to talk about it. I have forgotten much of the information I learned over the last 15-20 years as once I came to the decision, and spent some time making sure, I stopped studying it. At the end of the day, I'm just responsible for what I believe or don't believe, and it's just my personal opinion.
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Typically, most people I have gotten into discussions with were not well informed on any information that didn't originate from a apologist source. For example, they may say "The bible is true because the authors of the old testament predicted exactly or almost exactly things in the New Testament that happened, that couldn't be possible unless the prophets of the Old Testament had spiritual guidance. I know I've said that before in my youth.
When I point out the writers of the New Testament had access to , and knew very well what had been prophesied in the Old Testament and since the New Testament was written after Jesus' death; they could easily just fit the story to the prophecies, we move on to the next apologist argument and so on. At the end of the day, it's usually a waste of time for both of us. I truly have no interest in changing anyone's mind, as long as they aren't legislating their beliefs or forcing their religious beliefs and rituals on me. But if someone feels like they want to engage me in a civil discussion about it I certainly have been known to talk about it. I have forgotten much of the information I learned over the last 15-20 years as once I came to the decision, and spent some time making sure, I stopped studying it. At the end of the day, I'm just responsible for what I believe or don't believe, and it's just my personal opinion.
It's an appeal purely to logic, then, that you'd make in such a discussion. That raises some really interesting questions about how an individual thinks, anyone at all, and it's something I've often wondered upon. IMO it would be extremely difficult (impossible, really) for a person to attempt to subject conscience to logic, though, without becoming fair game for all the bad things in this world. The short exchange I had with MoS on the "Allah is Satan" thread, kind of distilled that thought for me.
But then, of course, logic's all we have to reliably communicate structured ideas with one another. Right there, I'd have to say is the hangup when it comes to this subject.
What caused you to return to religion for the short time that you did, if I may ask. What sorts of thoughts were you experiencing at that time? Longing, certainly.
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It's an appeal purely to logic, then, that you'd make in such a discussion. That raises some really interesting questions about how an individual thinks, anyone at all, and it's something I've often wondered upon. IMO it would be extremely difficult (impossible, really) for a person to attempt to subject conscience to logic, though, without becoming fair game for all the bad things in this world. The short exchange I had with MoS on the "Allah is Satan" thread, kind of distilled that thought for me.
But then, of course, logic's all we have to reliably communicate structured ideas with one another. Right there, I'd have to say is the hangup when it comes to this subject.
What caused you to return to religion for the short time that you did, if I may ask. What sorts of thoughts were you experiencing at that time? Longing, certainly.
I don't really look at it as a return to religion. I had just become the average Christian.. say I believe, believe I believe but not really being that light Christians are supposed to be where people look at your life and say "Whats different about him or her... " or witnessing to people which is what Christians are supposed to do. Some do it by being jerks in their lives.. (think of some on this board) and then going to church on Easter Sunday and Christmas .But they would cheat you out of a dollar if the opportunity came up. Others live their lives as an example of how Christ wanted them to, and those are the ones I respect, and would want to emulate. So it was more a rededication than a return, and it was because I just felt I need to pump up the intensity a bit as I was luke warm at the time and the bible says if you are luke warm, you get spit out.
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I don't really look at it as a return to religion. I had just become the average Christian.. say I believe, believe I believe but not really being that light Christians are supposed to be where people look at your life and say "Whats different about him or her... " or witnessing to people which is what Christians are supposed to do. Some do it by being jerks in their lives.. (think of some on this board) and then going to church on Easter Sunday and Christmas .But they would cheat you out of a dollar if the opportunity came up. Others live their lives as an example of how Christ wanted them to, and those are the ones I respect, and would want to emulate. So it was more a rededication than a return, and it was because I just felt I need to pump up the intensity a bit as I was luke warm at the time and the bible says if you are luke warm, you get spit out.
Being raised in it, as you were, do you think that you internalized it only as a cultural thing? The culture of your own immediate family, even.
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Being raised in it, as you were, do you think that you internalized it only as a cultural thing? The culture of your own immediate family, even.
Probably not
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Probably not
What causes you to say that?
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What causes you to say that?
I thought about your question and it may be that I'm not understanding it. Are you asking if growing up in the bible belt of the US in a home where at least one parent was Christian had an impact on what I believed? If so then absolutely. There is little doubt in my mind that had I been born in an area that was 99% Muslim, and at least one of my parents were Muslim and introduced me to Islam, I would likely have been Muslim.
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I thought about your question and it may be that I'm not understanding it. Are you asking if growing up in the bible belt of the US in a home where at least one parent was Christian had an impact on what I believed? If so then absolutely. There is little doubt in my mind that had I been born in an area that was 99% Muslim, and at least one of my parents were Muslim and introduced me to Islam, I would likely have been Muslim.
Yes, to me it sounds like what almost any religious person would say if reflecting thoughtfully and honestly. Perhaps mistaking a natural satisfaction in cultural fulfillment for something greater, even.
But it also sounds like the person's giving a lifelong effort to uphold a sense of logic at the expense of the conscience, which then regretfully turns around to destroy the logic. If that person's logic goes unsurrendered to conscience, it raises a question whether the person has actually surrendered to God. It doesn't seem possible.
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Yes, to me it sounds like what almost any religious person would say if reflecting thoughtfully and honestly. Perhaps mistaking a natural satisfaction in cultural fulfillment for something greater, even.
But it also sounds like the person's giving a lifelong effort to uphold a sense of logic at the expense of the conscience, which then regretfully turns around to destroy the logic. If that person's logic goes unsurrendered to conscience, it raises a question whether the person has actually surrendered to God. It doesn't seem possible.
Honestly, didn't understand much of that. Could you dumb it down just a bit for me?
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Honestly, didn't understand much of that. Could you dumb it down just a bit for me?
Love you know to be true in your life: Isn't it accurate to say it wasn't determined through logical test, but rather by the way it tested your logic?
It couldn't have been through logical test, IMO, because you wouldn't know it to be true. Just to get an idea of where you're coming from, do you agree?
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Love you know to be true in your life: Isn't it accurate to say it wasn't determined through logical test, but rather by the way it tested your logic?
It couldn't have been through logical test, IMO, because you wouldn't know it to be true. Just to get an idea of where you're coming from, do you agree?
I don't know if I agree or disagree at this point. Is this a version of the "You can't prove love exists but it does, therefore there is similar evidence for a God?" argument?
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I don't know if I agree or disagree at this point.
You don't know that about yourself? Or you do know, but would rather not say at the moment.
Is this a version of the "You can't prove love exists but it does, therefore there is similar evidence for a God?" argument?
No, because that should go without saying. It also goes full throttle in reverse, of course, so just about everyone gets run over by it. That's what I'm telling you. No person outside of yourself can explain to you what's in your heart, whether you're in the business of accepting God, or you've assumed the business of rejecting God.
To limit your internalized thoughts so as to "check out" with others through the process, means you've taken man's direction -- you lose, either way. From all angles, and for whatever you hope (or believe) you're doing, you will lose. You will fail, and your logic will remain broken.
The message must come through the conscience, that much I've learned (and with no doubt left at this point).
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kind words and thank you
my time on GB is pretty much done, but since I still mod I check from time to time
but I know my discussion/debate is finished....I mean I would love to got into the "Religion is B.S." thread on the G&O and SHRED IT, but I'm not gonna. Everything in that thread I've already addressed over and over for years so there's no point. Few minds are changed and the majority of minds are made up even after solid answers are given to the questions/objections.
I'm concentrating my time on my family, my church, my work and my training.....GB occupied more than enough time in my life already.....good times, bad times and blah times but time to move on
I come on here once in awhile to continue to collect my old post history, check on mod stuff and when I'm done collecting my post history I'll simply walk away like Bill Bixby carrying his backpack on the Incredible Hulk tv series :)
lol at Shred it.
You got owned in pretty much most debates by Syntax, AVXO, and Sync Pulse.
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lol at Shred it.
You got owned in pretty much most debates by Syntax, AVXO, and Sync Pulse.
Actually, almost everyone. You can't defend the bible in any debate against anyone with a junior level of biblical knowledge.
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Actually, almost everyone. You can't defend the bible in any debate against anyone with a junior level of biblical knowledge.
Who has that level? The person he was debating with? (Seriously, don't know, it looks to go either way by what you wrote.)
I missed those threads SF mentioned.
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Who has that level? The person he was debating with? (Seriously, don't know, it looks to go either way by what you wrote.)
I missed those threads SF mentioned.
It was interesting at times. But like MOS alluded to, it went down predictable roads. No amount of information would ever suffice to prove a point depending on which side you were debating on. I run into it in real life just as often.
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It was interesting at times. But like MOS alluded to, it went down predictable roads. No amount of information would ever suffice to prove a point depending on which side you were debating on. I run into it in real life just as often.
Yeah, I'd like to see one of those threads if you or SF could link your favorite, or most informative, something iyo. The best one, if you recall any particulars about it. I can search it, too, if you just remember a few things from it.
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Yeah, I'd like to see one of those threads if you or SF could link your favorite, or most informative, something iyo. The best one, if you recall any particulars about it. I can search it, too, if you just remember a few things from it.
I put my screen name in the search engine on Religion and came up with 4 pages. I can't tell you which ones were epic enough to point out.
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LOL!!
Checked in to mod....nothin. Checked PMs....nada. Out.
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So there are a few major (big) threads from the past, yeah. I see that. But they look to be attempted shows of logic by everyone in them, on both sides, to leave a final impression that there "is" or "is not" God.
From what I've seen in them, though, I've gotta go with MoS. He makes more sense than the others.
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And whatever happened to OTH? Dude's alright. He should get his head out of the clouds (he's in roofing) and post here again.
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So there are a few major (big) threads from the past, yeah. I see that. But they look to be attempted shows of logic by everyone in them, on both sides, to leave a final impression that there "is" or "is not" God.
From what I've seen in them, though, I've gotta go with MoS. He makes more sense than the others.
If you are saying I side with MOS out of those who are believers, he is one of the more knowledgeable and articulate. If you are saying his argument made more sense than those who didn't believe in god then we'll have to disagree :)
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If you are saying I side with MOS out of those who are believers, he is one of the more knowledgeable and articulate. If you are saying his argument made more sense than those who didn't believe in god then we'll have to disagree :)
I see it as a matter of using surrendered-and-returned logic versus an unsurrendered excuse for logic (one which is bound only for the worst fate, despite what the user may wish). No, there won't be anything conclusive to be found that isn't already known. That's for sure.
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kind words and thank you
my time on GB is pretty much done, but since I still mod I check from time to time
but I know my discussion/debate is finished....I mean I would love to got into the "Religion is B.S." thread on the G&O and SHRED IT, but I'm not gonna. Everything in that thread I've already addressed over and over for years so there's no point. Few minds are changed and the majority of minds are made up even after solid answers are given to the questions/objections.
I'm concentrating my time on my family, my church, my work and my training.....GB occupied more than enough time in my life already.....good times, bad times and blah times but time to move on
I come on here once in awhile to continue to collect my old post history, check on mod stuff and when I'm done collecting my post history I'll simply walk away like Bill Bixby carrying his backpack on the Incredible Hulk tv series :)
There's something a little sad about this. It makes sense that you not waste your time with strangers who may or may not get anything out of your posts. People do change however, sometimes it's just damn hard to see.
Religion shouldn't be debated, but it should appreciated for the good it sometimes does for people who have nothing else. For them finding a spiritual connection can be a life saver. Yes, people give off that their minds are made up and cannot be changed. This is really frustrating when your goal to help them see things differently is met with hostility instead of, at least, some curiosity.
Your family, church, work and health are definitely very important and should be your primary focus. The question is, is that enough for you?
I think if you go, you will be missed.
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There's something a little sad about this. It makes sense that you not waste your time with strangers who may or may not get anything out of your posts. People do change however, sometimes it's just damn hard to see.
Religion shouldn't be debated, but it should appreciated for the good it sometimes does for people who have nothing else. For them finding a spiritual connection can be a life saver. Yes, people give off that their minds are made up and cannot be changed. This is really frustrating when your goal to help them see things differently is met with hostility instead of, at least, some curiosity.
Your family, church, work and health are definitely very important and should be your primary focus. The question is, is that enough for you?
I think if you go, you will be missed.
Anything that is claimed to be the truth, especially if the claimed outcome is an eternal reward or punishment, and is infused in the government should be discussed and debated, but civilly.
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Anything that is claimed to be the truth, especially if the claimed outcome is an eternal reward or punishment, and is infused in the government should be discussed and debated, but civilly.
Perhaps you're right about civil discussions. I don't discuss my personal religious beliefs if I can help it.
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Perhaps you're right about civil discussions. I don't discuss my personal religious beliefs if I can help it.
And that's probably the norm and ok. I typically only bring it up or talk about it in real life when someone else starts the conversation or starts talking about needing more god in government.
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And that's probably the norm and ok. I typically only bring it up or talk about it in real life when someone else starts the conversation or starts talking about needing more god in government.
There is No Mythical God
That’s the simple & correct answer.
How otherwise rational & intelligent people can believe in
A Mythical God who does Fcuk all other than bring death
Destruction & misery too many is beyond Me.
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There is No Mythical God
That’s the simple & correct answer.
How otherwise rational & intelligent people can believe in
A Mythical God who does Fcuk all other than bring death
Destruction & misery too many is beyond Me.
Personally, I think it has to do with 2 things. 1. conditioning as a child. For example, most children are taught two supernatural beings exist. God and Santa Clause. As a child you are told by responsible adults, parents, teachers, Walter Cronkite, that Santa is real. You see the evidence, presents arriving mysteriously, the radar at NORAD tracking Santa and in your mind there is no doubt he exists. Anyone who doesn't believe is ignorant, hates Christmas, or stupid. Same thing with religion. Responsible adults are telling you God and or Jesus exists. The rainbow is explained to you as Gods promise not to flood the earth again. Hell, there's a rainbow, so it must be true. All or most of your friends, teachers, coaches, they all believe it. As you reach a certain age, people start to tell you Santa doesn't exist. First you might hear it from an older kid at school. You don't believe him, after all, you've believed this all your life. He may start asking your hard questions like "How is it possible when there are x number of homes, located all over the globe, mathematically it is impossible for him to do this great feat. You ask your parents, they may admit it or carry out the farce hoping for another year... but eventually, you realize it is fake and drop the belief. The only difference between the two stories is the latter, the god story, adults keep telling you its real and therefore you maintain that belief, really never asking or getting asked the hard questions. And if you do, you have the equivalent of "Well Santa can travel at light speed, time actually comes to a stop so that he can personally deliver each gift, stopping to drink milk and eat cookies at the homes that provided those treats." and its accepted
The 2nd reason I think comes from the human desire to survive. Death can't be final so I will believe it goes on.
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Personally, I think it has to do with 2 things. 1. conditioning as a child. For example, most children are taught two supernatural beings exist. God and Santa Clause. As a child you are told by responsible adults, parents, teachers, Walter Cronkite, that Santa is real. You see the evidence, presents arriving mysteriously, the radar at NORAD tracking Santa and in your mind there is no doubt he exists. Anyone who doesn't believe is ignorant, hates Christmas, or stupid. Same thing with religion. Responsible adults are telling you God and or Jesus exists. The rainbow is explained to you as Gods promise not to flood the earth again. Hell, there's a rainbow, so it must be true. All or most of your friends, teachers, coaches, they all believe it. As you reach a certain age, people start to tell you Santa doesn't exist. First you might hear it from an older kid at school. You don't believe him, after all, you've believed this all your life. He may start asking your hard questions like "How is it possible when there are x number of homes, located all over the globe, mathematically it is impossible for him to do this great feat. You ask your parents, they may admit it or carry out the farce hoping for another year... but eventually, you realize it is fake and drop the belief. The only difference between the two stories is the latter, the god story, adults keep telling you its real and therefore you maintain that belief, really never asking or getting asked the hard questions. And if you do, you have the equivalent of "Well Santa can travel at light speed, time actually comes to a stop so that he can personally deliver each gift, stopping to drink milk and eat cookies at the homes that provided those treats." and its accepted
The 2nd reason I think comes from the human desire to survive. Death can't be final so I will believe it goes on.
I can follow your train of thought up to the point we become self thinking & questioning.
The earth is not flat
There is no santa
The moon isn’t made of cheese
There is no tooth fairy
There is no weirdy beardy all seeing all powerful God.
Just like we dont know what it’s like before we’re born or even conceived
It will be just the same when we’re dead.
Like I said how otherwise rational intelligent people believe in a God
Is beyond me - it’s like rational thinking goes out the window.
Yes my humanitarian God is Better than your humanitarian god
And if you don’t believe & pray to my god he says I should kill you. ::)
And millions or rather billions believe this..!!!
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There is No Mythical God
That’s the simple & correct answer.
How otherwise rational & intelligent people can believe in
A Mythical God who does Fcuk all other than bring death
Destruction & misery too many is beyond Me.
Agreed. One might instead believe in a God, mythical or not, that brings life, comfort, joy and peace. Man brings destruction and misery onto himself.
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And if you don’t believe & pray to my god he says I should kill you. ::)
And millions or rather billions believe this..!!!
Count me out! that God does not exist in my rationale thoughts.
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I can follow your train of thought up to the point we become self thinking & questioning.
The earth is not flat
There is no santa
The moon isn’t made of cheese
There is no tooth fairy
There is no weirdy beardy all seeing all powerful God.
Just like we dont know what it’s like before we’re born or even conceived
It will be just the same when we’re dead.
Like I said how otherwise rational intelligent people believe in a God
Is beyond me - it’s like rational thinking goes out the window.
Yes my humanitarian God is Better than your humanitarian god
And if you don’t believe & pray to my god he says I should kill you. ::)
And millions or rather billions believe this..!!!
]
I was a believer for the first 30 years of my life. I get where they are coming from. And I understand how easy it is to stay in the bubble. I'm impressed by those who grew up in the God environment and never succumbed. to it. I have a few friends like that
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While MOS has all the logical reason in the world to leave, I'm even thinking of dropping this place, MOS provides that beacon of morals and an angle of thinking from the believer, and Lord knows this place could use some morals regardless of the origin. We have butted heads and on almost every point disagree, but the discussions are always for the most part respectful and inquiring. While I wouldn't blame him one iota for packing up and leaving.. what place could possibly need him more than a board filled with bigotry and hatred?
You don't need made up religion to fight bigotry and hate. And many forms of religion are ironically that.
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MOS should stay
As much as I’m against religion
He’s a good poster & we don’t want to lose good posters.
I hope he’s reading this & decides to stay & continues to contribute.