Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Steroids Info & Hardcore => Topic started by: clayton green on June 17, 2007, 08:17:51 AM
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Besides a good multivitamin and a liver cleanser (Milk Thisle) are there any other recommended vitamins or herbs recommended while on AAS?
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Whey, higher dose c-vitamin, fish oil and maybe prostate formula...
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For what it's worth, here's what I take.
Fish oil
Evening primose oil
Glucosamine
Juice plus
The oils are needed for nutrition, the gluco for joint relief...not sure if it actually helps though, but it can't hurt. The Juice Plus, I highly recommend this to anyone, this stuff is fantastic. You take it 2x per day and get the equivalent of 10 servings of fruits and vegtables...fantastic for your immune system. No need for a multi if you take this stuff, but take one if you want, it won't hurt. I was skeptical about this stuff at first, but I'm sold on it now...very helpful.
As far as liver protection goes, I don't take anything until after my cycle and then I only use Liv-52.
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I like the Pro Source brand Multi-Vits, very good.
Calcium magnesium and Zinc in the evening.
Hardgainers-If your trying for max bloat - Gatorade w/ a couple spoons of creatine & Glutamine, slug down about 2 liters & extra water during your workout, you can come out of a workout 5lbs heavier. Stretch that muscle.
Cottage cheese before bed for bulk.
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Liver support:
Milk Thistle 2000 mg's a day
L-Gluthathione 500 mg's a day
NAC 1200 mg's a day
Alpha Lipoic Acid 300-600 mg's day
Dandelion Root around 1500 mg's a day for the bloating if you bulking
Vit C around 2000 mg's a day
Gluc/Chon/MSM stack for joints shoot for 1500 mg Glu, 1200 Chon, 1000 mg MSM.
Also what I might suggest for the Lipid problems:
Red Yeast Rice- 1200 mg's day
Co-Q10- between 100 and 200 mg's a day
Fish oil- choose a supp that gives you 900 mg or EPA not FISH OIL the extract of EPA. Turn the bottle around and see how much EPA you get per 1000 mgs of fish oil VERY important, most people think 1-1000 mg softgel of fish oil is enough. In reality it takes about 4-7 of most Fish oil products to get you 900 mg's of EPA.
Policosanol and Beta sisterol are optional....
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For what it's worth, here's what I take.
Fish oil
Evening primose oil
Glucosamine
Juice plus
The oils are needed for nutrition, the gluco for joint relief...not sure if it actually helps though, but it can't hurt. The Juice Plus, I highly recommend this to anyone, this stuff is fantastic. You take it 2x per day and get the equivalent of 10 servings of fruits and vegtables...fantastic for your immune system. No need for a multi if you take this stuff, but take one if you want, it won't hurt. I was skeptical about this stuff at first, but I'm sold on it now...very helpful.
Arnold,
Where do you buy the Juice plus?
As far as liver protection goes, I don't take anything until after my cycle and then I only use Liv-52.
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Gluc/Chon/MSM stack for joints shoot for 1500 mg Glu, 1200 Chon, 1000 mg MSM.
Just a little FYI, several studies have shown that males who take chondriton have a stronger risk of prostate problems....you'll notice because of this, many supplement companies carry gluco with and without chon.
Clayton,
https://www.juiceplus.com/nsa/pages/Home.soa?site=dp02724
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Besides a good multivitamin and a liver cleanser (Milk Thisle) are there any other recommended vitamins or herbs recommended while on AAS?
Try Liv 52 that is a liver protection pills.
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fuck taking all those pills i take multi vite and creatine i took all that fish oil and joint stuff before didnt notice any thing. i took 20 pills a day for 3yrs im done with all the pills
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For what it's worth here's what I take: (on cycle or off)
9 Cod Liver Oil Tablets (split up during the day)
4000mg of MSM (for joint relief - split up during the day)
5 Dessicated Liver Tablets (taken at bedtime)
1 Tablespoon of NOW Joint Support Powder
Protein Powder
I also take about 1.5 grams of the following in a shake in the middle of the day:
Guto Kola
Ginko
Dandelion Root
Echinacea
Hawthorn Berry
Spirulina
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fuck taking all those pills i take multi vite and creatine i took all that fish oil and joint stuff before didnt notice any thing. i took 20 pills a day for 3yrs im done with all the pills
agreed....too many pills, regardless of how "good" it is on you can tax the liver...
multi vit
vita c
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Multi-Vitamin
Multi Mineral
Liver Detox by Am. Cellular
ZMA before bed
Glutamine- 20 g. day spread out
ALRi WTF- Pre Workout Creatine-NO-stimulants
Pure Vitargo, Whey post workout
MY own MRP (2-3 x day):
2 scoops Blended protein
1/2-1 c. oats
Greens Blend
Udo Oil- 1 tbsn
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Besides a good multivitamin and a liver cleanser (Milk Thisle) are there any other recommended vitamins or herbs recommended while on AAS?
I could go on and on about what supplements you could take while on, but remember that your liver and kidneys must process everything and you don't want to strain them any more than you need to during your cycle.
Milk Thistle will reduce the effectiveness of your orals, so keep that in mind.
My endocrinologist is of the opinion that if your liver is healthy, then you shouldn't worry about safeguarding it during your cycle and if it's not, then you shouldn't be using 17AA orals anyway.
I typically only up the C + E while on cycle and let my body do the rest.
DIV
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Fish Oil
Liv-52
Hawthorn Berry
Multi-Vitamin
NAC(which I'm currently out of!)
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thanks for the link for the Juice Plus AJ. Checked it out and it looks like good stuff, but kinda pricey...
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thanks for the link for the Juice Plus AJ. Checked it out and it looks like good stuff, but kinda pricey...
Yes it is, but it is worth it. You know one thing to keep in mind is how much money a lot of guys blow on useless supplements and they don't think twice about it. But here is something that is actually worth while and in reality doesn't cost half as much as some of the BS we see and read about in various advertisements. There is no claim that this product will boost testosterone 200% put 7" on your arms, give you insane exploding pumps, turn you into Mr O...nothing more then a good supplement designed for over all health and proper immune function...two things a lot of BB are lacking because of the way in which we live. you know BB is great, but if you pursue it hardcore style, you miss out on a lot of nutrients and things that keep the body in perfect perfroming function...particularly in contest prep stages.
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Juice Plus looks like a great supplement - I just wish I could afford the almost $500 a year for it. Ahhhh maybe one day.
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Juice Plus looks like a great supplement - I just wish I could afford the almost $500 a year for it. Ahhhh maybe one day.
Hey, $40 a month, that's not to bad for a supplement that is actually worth while. Of course you could use that money to buy a 2wks worth supply of the newest Muscle Tech phenom supplement...I know, it's a toss up.
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You mean I shouldn't bought all that Cell-tech & Nitro-tech...damn.
I know what you mean. If I had the cash right now I'd be all over that supplement. Ah, maybe next year.
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You mean I shouldn't bought all that Cell-tech & Nitro-tech...damn.
I know what you mean. If I had the cash right now I'd be all over that supplement. Ah, maybe next year.
I thought you were rollin fat? ;)
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I thought you were rollin fat? ;)
Remember I'm married. Someone else has all the money now. :'(
Side note: Most of the OT at work has dried up right now. :-\
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For what it's worth, here's what I take.
Fish oil
Evening primose oil
Glucosamine
Juice plus
Why? ???
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I like the Pro Source brand Multi-Vits, very good.
Calcium magnesium and Zinc in the evening.
Taking these together is not optimal because absorption for both is decreased.
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Why? ???
Essential GOOD OMEGA-6 fats.
Is there some reason you think I shouldn't be taking these?
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9 Cod Liver Oil Tablets (split up during the day)
Fish (BODY) oil would be preferable vs cod LIVER oil
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Taking these together is not optimal because absorption for both is decreased.
I take the CMZ in the eve w/ a meal. Multi's in the morn or afternoon. that OK?
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Essential GOOD OMEGA-6 fats.
Is there some reason you think I shouldn't be taking these?
Not necessary IMO
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I take the CMZ in the eve w/ a meal. Multi's in the morn or afternoon. that OK?
Calcium decreases the absorbtion of zinc and vice versa. Actually, unfortuately, calcium hinders the absorbtion of just about everything - even itself ::) :-\
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Not necessary IMO
Not trying to be an a smart ass, but you know that I am a big Dave P. follower when it comes to nutrition, and this is what he says about it. "EVENING PRIMROSE OIL:
Contains high quantities of the GOOD essential Omega-6 fat, Gamma Linolenic Acid (GLA). This is the only O-6 fat that lowers inflammation, lowers blood pressure, and lowers cholesterol. It also happens to be a great liver detoxifer and it's great for PMS women. It's also needed for the proper repair of muscle cells (the cell membrane)."
Comments?
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Calcium decreases the absorbtion of zinc and vice versa. Actually, unfortuately, calcium hinders the absorbtion of just about everything - even itself ::) :-\
I believe the calcium thing, it's like chalk, but I do feel I sleep better and more memorable dream stage sleep esp
w/ CMZ. That's the sleep that refreshens.
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Not trying to be an a smart ass, but you know that I am a big Dave P. follower when it comes to nutrition, and this is what he says about it. "EVENING PRIMROSE OIL:
Contains high quantities of the GOOD essential Omega-6 fat, Gamma Linolenic Acid (GLA). This is the only O-6 fat that lowers inflammation, lowers blood pressure, and lowers cholesterol. It also happens to be a great liver detoxifer and it's great for PMS women. It's also needed for the proper repair of muscle cells (the cell membrane)."
Comments?
I have some real good lipid #s when I take salmon/ flax/ eve Prim and even eat eggs and red meat. It outright pisses
my anti-aas weak-little-worm of a Dr off. ;D
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Fish (BODY) oil would be preferable vs cod LIVER oil
Do they make fish oil caps? cost? I basically Cod Liver because it's cheap.
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CyoGenX (which I designed/formulated) is the only supp I'm taking right now.
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Do they make fish oil caps? cost? I basically Cod Liver because it's cheap.
Yes, the fish oil I have is about $16 for 60 caps. It is a concentrated Omega 3 with EPA and DHA
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And on another note, as far as EFA's, I do not like getting too out of balance between 3's and 6's which I why I use Udo Oil in my shakes or as salad dressing with balsamic vinegar and do not use individual Fish Oil or Primrose, Udo has it all in one!
As for Calcium blocking the absorbtion of other minerals, that is true so Trab, make sure to take your Z and M about an hour after the cal, right before bed. Or take a ZMA right before bed, an hour after any calcium.
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Not trying to be an a smart ass, but you know that I am a big Dave P. follower when it comes to nutrition, and this is what he says about it. "EVENING PRIMROSE OIL:
Contains high quantities of the GOOD essential Omega-6 fat, Gamma Linolenic Acid (GLA).
Since we eat a lot of oatmeal (I assume you do), we get more than adequate amounts of GLA. The less processed the oat (ie; steel cut), the more GLA. (GLA) Not something we want to go overboard on though.
This is the only O-6 fat that lowers inflammation, lowers blood pressure, and lowers cholesterol. happens to be a great liver detoxifer
Not aware of any studies supporting that, however, fish oil does all that and more.
great for PMS women.
Comments?
Lots of evidence support that claim, but you don't need to worry about that. ;)
There might be some more recent evidence/study supporting supplementing with EPO that I'm not up to speed on :-\, but I was just pointing out that it's probably an unnecessary supplement for you.
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Do they make fish oil caps? cost? I basically Cod Liver because it's cheap.
Sam's carries a huge bottle for about $9 bucks - even enteric coated.
Yes, the fish oil I have is about $16 for 60 caps. It is a concentrated Omega 3 with EPA and DHA
Seems rather pricey, even for concentrated. What brand is it and how much EPA/DHA?
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And on another note, as far as EFA's, I do not like getting too out of balance between 3's and 6's which I why I use Udo Oil in my shakes or as salad dressing with balsamic vinegar and do not use individual Fish Oil or Primrose, Udo has it all in one!
There is very little if any reason to supplement with an omega 6 PUFA. We as a socieity get too much as it is.
There are long chain omega 3s and short chain omega 3s. Ultimately, we want and need EPA & DHA which is what we get directly from fish oil not plant oils.
Here is a direct quote from Udo's site ::)
questions were answered in October 2002, by two studies published in the British Journal of Nutrition (BJN) which measured the conversion of alpha-linolenic acid (ALA), the short chain n-3 essential fatty acid, into the long chain n-3 derivatives EPA, DPA, and DHA. The first study1, carried out with six women, showed that these women converted an average of 36% of the ALA they were given into long chain n-3 derivatives (21% EPA, 6%DPA, 9%DHA).
The second study2, done with six men, showed that the men converted an average of 16% of the ALA they received into long-chain n-3 derivatives (8%EPA, 8%DPA). In this study, the men produced no DHA. However, another study showed that men convert ALA to DHA as well3.
Udo's Comment: Women must be able to convert enough ALA to long chain n-3 to feed two brains, theirs and that of the child growing within them. Men have only one brain to feed, and therefore require less conversion to DHA than women do.
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Since we eat a lot of oatmeal (I assume you do), we get more than adequate amounts of GLA. The less processed the oat (ie; steel cut), the more GLA. (GLA) Not something we want to go overboard on though.
Actually, when dieting I don't eat any oatmeal, no carbs except what ever is in my natural PB, nuts, and egg yolk which I believe has 1g per yoke. I say no carbs, but I do have 1 meal per wk where I carb up so to speak.
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Actually, when dieting I don't eat any oatmeal, no carbs except what ever is in my natural PB, nuts, and egg yolk which I believe has 1g per yoke. I say no carbs, but I do have 1 meal per wk where I carb up so to speak.
K ~ no harm ;)
At least you get to have peanut butter ;D crunchy I hope.
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Actually, when dieting I don't eat any oatmeal, no carbs except what ever is in my natural PB, nuts, and egg yolk which I believe has 1g per yoke. I say no carbs, but I do have 1 meal per wk where I carb up so to speak.
Man thats brutal Arnie, but that's what it realy takes to get shredded right?
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Man thats brutal Arnie, but that's what it realy takes to get shredded right?
Not really IMO, but very low carbs like 60g-80g ED is necessary. Thats low enough to stay in the fat for energy mode in my experience, and will help spare more muscle. One thing that throws me about Dave and his recomendations is he talks about no carbs for months (except the one cheat meal EW) and that the body does not really need carbs. BUT right before a show he has you eating carbs? I mean it seems risky when you have trained your body to work on practically zero carbs for so long, and then right before show day throw a curve ball at it like that? Who knows what to expect, body may be a little confused at that point and may not respond as intended.
And on the the Eve. Prim oil, from what I understand your body converts ALA into GLA making taking separate GLA pointless, but I think Princess has already said this also.
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Not really IMO, but very low carbs like 60g-80g ED is necessary. Thats low enough to stay in the fat for energy mode in my experience, and will help spare more muscle. One thing that throws me about Dave and his recomendations is he talks about no carbs for months (except the one cheat meal EW) and that the body does not really need carbs. BUT right before a show he has you eating carbs? I mean it seems risky when you have trained your body to work on practically zero carbs for so long, and then right before show day throw a curve ball at it like that? Who knows what to expect, body may be a little confused at that point and may not respond as intended.
And on the the Eve. Prim oil, from what I understand your body converts ALA into GLA making taking separate GLA pointless, but I think Princess has already said this also.
Thanks man, I don't have enough mass to really rip up, pretty lean anyway, but even short low carb diets like the 60-80gr are brutal just to see whats under there. too. ANd Im not a big carb freak, I can run fine on mostly fat & protine.
Its more a intrest for others dieting in my case. ANd I think the nut of the prob is: There aint no way to do it other than low carbs from what I've seen. That or extreme energy expenditure or vicious chemical warfare.
Women are the thing I'm thinkin here, Its extra hard to shed some fat and there just plain aint no easy answer.
Path of least resistance, low carbs and cardio esp 1st thing in am W/ a empty gut is my feeling.
Like Claptons song:
Ya got to pay your dues if ya wanna sing the Blues and ya know it dont come easy...
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Seems rather pricey, even for concentrated. What brand is it and how much EPA/DHA?[/color]
It is 360 mg EPA, 240 mg DHA per gel cap. 60 total.
So do you like Udo's brand or in favor of individual Omega sources? Convience is key for me and I don't or can't eat fish so need to drink the EFAs so I get more fat calories as well.
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K ~ no harm ;)
At least you get to have peanut butter ;D crunchy I hope.
No crunchy, I just get the regular and mix it in my shakes...mixes easier.
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I try to stick to about 2-3 dosings of pussy a day, it helps cut back on the roid rapes.
Hah i made up a new term :D
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K ~ no harm ;)
At least you get to have peanut butter ;D crunchy I hope.
Yumm Crunchy PB! For freaks like us Princess, who just eat it straight from the jar, crunchy is the best :)