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Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Religious Debates & Threads => Topic started by: canyoufeeltheforce on April 15, 2006, 04:52:35 PM
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I believe Jesus was a MAN and neither God / a god / the son of GOD .
Even the bible slips up now and again on the subject :
Luke 5:16 "And he (Jesus) withdrew himself into the wilderness and prayed to his God."
John 5:30 "I cannot do a single thing of my own initiative; just as I hear, I judge; and the judgment that I render is righteous, because I seek, not my own will, but the will of him that sent me."
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I believe Jesus was a MAN and neither God / a god / the son of GOD .
Even the bible slips up now and again on the subject :
Luke 5:16 "And he (Jesus) withdrew himself into the wilderness and prayed to his God."
John 5:30 "I cannot do a single thing of my own initiative; just as I hear, I judge; and the judgment that I render is righteous, because I seek, not my own will, but the will of him that sent me."
Right. Jesus refers to "God" in the 3rd person. Never the 1st. Jesus never proclaims he is God. Nor does he state that he should be worshiped as the God of the O.T. always did.
Jesus prayed to God and talked to him. If Jesus IS god then he's praying to and talking to himself? ::)
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Isn't is amazing that even with all of the evidence in their own bible that many Christians still believe in the Holy Trinity ?
I guess that BLIND FAITH should be replaced with BLIND STUPIDITY.
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Except for that part that says "he was born of the virgin Mary and became man"
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Except for that part that says "he was born of the virgin Mary and became man"
That didn't come from the bible, It came from the Nicene Creed. This statement was invented in 325AD at the Council of Nicaea. Nowhere is this phrase found in the Bible. The Nicene Creed is where the concept of the holy trinity was invented. A get together of church leaders who decided to make alot of bullshit up about the bible inorder to make it seem like Jesus is God but also applease the Pagans and make it seem like there are 3 Gods. There are 3 gods(paganism) but there is really just 1 God(monotheism). ::)
Try doing your research next time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicene_Creed
Nicene Creed
Through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit he was born of the Virgin Mary, and became man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered, died, and was buried.
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You are correct. There is no trinity. This was a pagan belief started 300yrs after Jesus death. The bible has many scriptures that state Jesus as his own being. (pray to father) or John 14:28.
People get confused when they read John 14:9. But it simply means that the Son Jesus Was in union with his Father in the Pursuit of these steps to be accomplished. Isaiah had stated the Son would come and the detail was accomplished.
The only way the Father and Son are one is.....like if you and I were on the same football team we would be in union to win and would work together....but were seperate people for sure.
See its very simple, but the pagan churches have polluted it with hard details.
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I thought the holy trinity was Superman, Wonder Woman, and Batman.
Ahhh man! >:(
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you're right that trinity is not biblical. but it's not a bible slip-up. Jesus just wasn't God.
You are correct gibber. Jesus was the Son of GOD. Scriptures with a capital "G" refer to YAHWEH or Jehovah or Elohim. That is GOD. Jesus was a god as his son...lower case "g".
Very simple freinds. There is a son and a father, that answers all in the scriptures.
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Im impressed G ;D Yes the early texts indicate the use of the name of Jehovah 6,800 times. So who took it out?? Well if you liked your name and wanted it to be known, but i was your enemy and could figure a way to take that away from you.......get the point???? Satan is jealous of GOD and will do anything great or small to take his glory.
Satan did this by convincing clerics in the 2nd century that GODS name was too great for common people to pronouce. See then only the church would have the name. Next was to burn bibles and such. So the catholic church eliminated it and brought in HUGE pagan beliefs to the people.
God Jehovah will take care of this soon.
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LORD and GOD are actually Jehovah or another variation of the name. in the greek scriptures it is interesting that though the devine name is missing the word hallelujah apears which literally means praise "Jah" (the short version of Jehovah used in psalms and Isaiah once in a while). And when the old testament is quoted in the new many of these passages quoted are ones that contain the devine name. why would Jesus or anyone change it? It is very easy to tell when the Lord and God in the new testament reffer to Jehovah or Yaweh or Yehawah. The reason for the name missing is the appostasy slowly introduced into christianity which both Jesus and the apostles warned about.
In the english translations "Lord" and "God" are interchangable but in reality in the new testament whenever jesus is refered to as "Lord" it literally means "master". In greek the word for God is "Theos" which jesus never refers to himself as.
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Im impressed G ;D Yes the early texts indicate the use of the name of Jehovah 6,800 times. So who took it out?? Well if you liked your name and wanted it to be known, but i was your enemy and could figure a way to take that away from you.......get the point???? Satan is jealous of GOD and will do anything great or small to take his glory.
Satan did this by convincing clerics in the 2nd century that GODS name was too great for common people to pronouce. See then only the church would have the name. Next was to burn bibles and such. So the catholic church eliminated it and brought in HUGE pagan beliefs to the people.
God Jehovah will take care of this soon.
In english translations(KJV) translated "Jehovah" into "God". Jehovah doesn't occur 6,800 times but 6,518 times in the Masoretic texts. The word "Jehovah" isn't even what the hebrew word is. Most scholars believe that "Jehovah" is incorrect transcription of vowel points from the hebrew phrasing.
Nothing to do with satan tricking people... ::)
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In english translations(KJV) translated "Jehovah" into "God". Jehovah doesn't occur 6,800 times but 6,518 times in the Masoretic texts. The word "Jehovah" isn't even what the hebrew word is. Most scholars believe that "Jehovah" is incorrect transcription of vowel points from the hebrew phrasing.
Nothing to do with satan tricking people... ::)
YHWH is hebrew. Since it is ancient hebrew no one knows for sure. Satan has tricked you Johnny.
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Too bad SAM KINISON isn't still alive to join this debate! He would have been funny!
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YHWH is hebrew. Since it is ancient hebrew no one knows for sure. Satan has tricked you Johnny.
I actually speak hebrew...
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The trinity is a difficult concept.
But if Jesus wasn't God, how did He live a completely sinless life?
I believe he was God incarnate, thus man AND God.
God through His Holy Spirit allowed Mary (a human) to give birth to Jesus.
So Jesus was both God and human.
It's like 2 human parents create (and one give) birth to human children. 2 dog "parents" create a dog. A lion and a tiger create a liger....
Jesus' father was God and His mother was mary, thus He was both God and human.
That's the way I see it anyway :)
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The trinity is a difficult concept.
But if Jesus wasn't God, how did He live a completely sinless life?
I believe he was God incarnate, thus man AND God.
God through His Holy Spirit allowed Mary (a human) to give birth to Jesus.
So Jesus was both God and human.
It's like 2 human parents create (and one give) birth to human children. 2 dog "parents" create a dog. A lion and a tiger create a liger....
Jesus' father was God and His mother was mary, thus He was both God and human.
That's the way I see it anyway :)
1.Where does it say only "God" can be sinless in the jewish bible?
2.When did Jesus claim he was sinless?
3.How is jesus being sinless(assuming he even said he was) imply he is God?
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1.Where does it say only "God" can be sinless in the jewish bible?
2.When did Jesus claim he was sinless?
3.How is jesus being sinless(assuming he even said he was) imply he is God?
1. Does the Jewish bible claim that God committed sins?
2. When does Jesus ever claim he sinned?
3. we've already been over this debate about Jesus and the Father being one (actually part of the Trinity - God, Son, Holy Spirit), but you say it's not true. so what's the point of waisting time typing? :-\
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1. Does the Jewish bible claim that God committed sins?
2. When does Jesus ever claim he sinned?
3. we've already been over this debate about Jesus and the Father being one (actually part of the Trinity - God, Son, Holy Spirit), but you say it's not true. so what's the point of waisting time typing? :-\
1.Nowhere.
2.Don't think he did. I never claimed I sinned. I must be God too! ::)
3.We've been over it and you've failed to give any evidence of your claims.
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1.Nowhere.
2.Don't think he did. I never claimed I sinned. I must be God too! ::)
3.We've been over it and you've failed to give any evidence of your claims.
so you've never missed the mark so to speak?
wrong again. we've been over it, you've just chosen not to concede when you KNOW you're wrong.
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1. Does the Jewish bible claim that God committed sins?
2. When does Jesus ever claim he sinned?
3. we've already been over this debate about Jesus and the Father being one (actually part of the Trinity - God, Son, Holy Spirit), but you say it's not true. so what's the point of waisting time typing? :-\
1.Nowhere.
2.Don't think he did. I never claimed I sinned. I must be God too! ::)
3.We've been over it and you've failed to give any evidence of your claims.
It seems I missed the original discusion but I suppose that is the nature of forums .
Regarding the debate on Holy Trinity I think that there is strong argument that Jesus and God are separate entities . For example in Mathew 4:1-2 "Then Jesus was led by the spirit up into the wilderness to be tempted by the Devil. After he had fasted forty days and forty nights, then he felt hungry." Surely you can not argue that Satan would tempt his creator ( Jehovah ) .
And then in Mathew 4:8-10 "Again the devil took him along to an unusually high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory, and he said to him: All these things I will give you if you fall down and do an act of worship to me. Then Jesus said to him: God away Satan! For it is written, It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone, you must render sacred service." If Jesus was GOD (Jehovah ) then why did he not say to Satan "It is me whom you must worship" ?
There are many more examples if you look .
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so you've never missed the mark so to speak?
wrong again. we've been over it, you've just chosen not to concede when you KNOW you're wrong.
Stop saying I "Know" i'm wrong..PROVE me wrong.
..Oh wait,You can't!
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1.Where does it say only "God" can be sinless in the jewish bible?
2.When did Jesus claim he was sinless?
3.How is jesus being sinless(assuming he even said he was) imply he is God?
Why do you want to use the bible as a reference when you think it's hogwash?
John 8:46-47 "Can any of you prove me guilty of sin?"
John 17:5 "And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began."
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Jesus is 100% man, 100% God - some would say
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You don't have to be God Almighty to be sinless. All the Angels that serve the Almighty are sinless and Adam could have been sinless too. Jesus was the second Adam. The difference between him and regular men is that he was born without original sin and was there for a "flawless human" who had the ability to remain spotless. This was a devastating blow to Satan who from the beginning intended to show that man would not remain faithfull to God.
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Why do you want to use the bible as a reference when you think it's hogwash?
John 8:46-47 "Can any of you prove me guilty of sin?"
John 17:5 "And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began."
When you're discussing specifics in the bible you must use it as a reference as if you were discussing specifics in the illiad you'd use IT as a reference even though it's fiction like the bible is.
Jhn 8:46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
Jesus isn't saying he's "Sinless" he's simply asking who is convicting him of sin.
Jhn 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Jesus isn't saying he's sinless here either he's simply asking (GOD) to glorify him.
This is more proof Jesus did not claim to be God because he's literally speaking to God in the 3rd person. God is someone else he is addressing. He isn't God himself.
If I thought myself to be Johnny would I really say..
"Oh Johnny, Glorify me with yourself in the glory which I had before!"
That would make absolutely no sense. Only a crazy man would speak like that!
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Jesus is 100% man, 100% God - some would say
And I'm 100% black and 100% white!
Oh wait,That makes 200%. Which isn't possible!
::)
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You don't have to be God Almighty to be sinless. All the Angels that serve the Almighty are sinless and Adam could have been sinless too. Jesus was the second Adam. The difference between him and regular men is that he was born without original sin and was there for a "flawless human" who had the ability to remain spotless. This was a devastating blow to Satan who from the beginning intended to show that man would not remain faithfull to God.
I'd agree with that. Claiming that Jesus is God because(if) he was sinless isn't an argument then since Adam was sinless and he wasn't God.
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Surely if Jesus was born sinless that would imply the Mary would have to be sinless. Mary would have to have been born sinless and remained sinless up until the birth of Jesus .
I think all this BLIND FAITH nonsense was used in the past to fill in the gaping holes present in the bible .
Thankfully a few brave people questioned the party line of the bible so that we can now debate and scrutinised it .
Hopefully one day the Muslims will have the same courage to question their own faith .
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Surely if Jesus was born sinless that would imply the Mary would have to be sinless. Mary would have to have been born sinless and remained sinless up until the birth of Jesus .
I think all this BLIND FAITH nonsense was used in the past to fill in the gaping holes present in the bible .
Thankfully a few brave people questioned the party line of the bible so that we can now debate and scrutinised it .
Hopefully one day the Muslims will have the same courage to question their own faith .
You can't apply logic to an illogical book. Trying to do so results in failure.
All you can do is take a neutral objective look at it and try your best to determine what the authors of it were trying to get across at the ancient time they were writing it.
Trying to decypher all of the sidetalk in the bible really just results in confustion. Which of courses has resulted in over 5,000 denominations of christianity as I type this.
If you don't take a neutral objective look at ANY text then you'll only interpret it to fit your own bias. Which is why there are so many various interpretations of the bible today.
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Adam ate the forbidden fruit, thus sinning. There was only one sinless man, that was Jesus.
And why would Mary have to be sinless to give birth to Jesus? Jesus was concieved from the Holy Spirit to a virgin women who was chosen by God. God even uses sinners to fullfill his plans.
If this if that? No one is in any position to limit God.
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Adam ate the forbidden fruit, thus sinning. There was only one sinless man, that was Jesus.
And why would Mary have to be sinless to give birth to Jesus? Jesus was concieved from the Holy Spirit to a virgin women who was chosen by God. God even uses sinners to fullfill his plans.
If this if that? No one is in any position to limit God.
Thanks for arguing that Jesus isn't "God". ;)
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Jesus is part of the Trinity. Too complex to simply stat that Jesus was/was not God. They are all one in the same yet different.
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Jesus is part of the Trinity. Too complex to simply stat that Jesus was/was not God. They are all one in the same yet different.
I've already explained this. The Trinity is a make beleive concept invented by the church 300 years after the bible was written. NOWHERE is the word "trinity" mentioned in the bible and NOWHERE does it imply jesus is God or even part of some "trinity".
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Yes, GB, Johnny has spoken. Lest we stop our nonsense of the Trinity. ::)
I wonder if Johnny will end up being the modern day Saul of Tarsus? God has placed within him the passion to learn all that he can to argue against Christianity, only to come to be a defender of our Lord and Savior. Been done before.....
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I think Jesus was half God, half man and still worshiped the one who created him. All the glory goes to God because their is only one like him!
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I think Jesus was half God, half man and still worshiped the one who created him. All the glory goes to God because their is only one like him!
LOL alexx, I'm surprised YOU didn't say YOU were like GOD! What's the matter, someone actually BETTER than you? :'(
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You don't have to be God Almighty to be sinless. All the Angels that serve the Almighty are sinless and Adam could have been sinless too. Jesus was the second Adam. The difference between him and regular men is that he was born without original sin and was there for a "flawless human" who had the ability to remain spotless. This was a devastating blow to Satan who from the beginning intended to show that man would not remain faithfull to God.
Angels where not sinless! Ever hear of Lucifer? How bout those angels that got the atlantian women pregnant huh?
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LOL alexx, I'm surprised YOU didn't say YOU were like GOD! What's the matter, someone actually BETTER than you? :'(
I worship God and am but a spec in the sand to them. God and Jesus have plans for me ;)
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Yes, GB, Johnny has spoken. Lest we stop our nonsense of the Trinity. ::)
I wonder if Johnny will end up being the modern day Saul of Tarsus? God has placed within him the passion to learn all that he can to argue against Christianity, only to come to be a defender of our Lord and Savior. Been done before.....
PM me.
I've got a number to a good psychiatrist colegue of mine.
You definitly need it!
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PM me.
I've got a number to a good psychiatrist colegue of mine.
You definitly need it!
Looks like he's worked wonders on you ::)
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I worship God and am but a spec in the sand to them. God and Jesus have plans for me ;)
Hmmm NOT a rock but a spec! Yeah you're right about that!
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PM me.
I've got a number to a good psychiatrist colegue of mine.
You definitly need it!
Did your psychiatrist ask you to bring one of your Christian friends to the next session? ;)
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Hmmm NOT a rock but a spec! Yeah you're right about that!
As a human being I am not better than the next person. As an athlete I am the best! :)
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As a human being I am not better than the next person. As an athlete I am the best! :)
Back pedal, back pedal...........
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Did your psychiatrist ask you to bring one of your Christian friends to the next session? ;)
More proof you lack reading comprehension.
I said "Psychiatrist colegue". Meaning he works along side me, He isn't my psychiatrist. ::)
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More proof you lack reading comprehension.
I said "Psychiatrist colegue". Meaning he works along side me, He isn't my psychiatrist. ::)
So, you treat each other then?
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Back pedal, back pedal...........
I am but a humble servant of the greatest Lord. :)
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So, you treat each other then?
Is english your 2nd langauge? You seem to have trouble understanding it.
Do you even know what a colegue is?
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More proof you lack reading comprehension.
I said "Psychiatrist colegue". Meaning he works along side me, He isn't my psychiatrist. ::)
Johnny we already know... you don't have to explain it too us! So what if you see each other..
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Is english your 2nd langauge? You seem to have trouble understanding it.
Do you even know what a colegue is?
actually, you're not comprehending, bro. i'm asking if you see treat one another's mental illnesses/anxieties since is your trade? i thought you were an archeologist though? so which one is it? ???
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actually, you're not comprehending, bro. i'm asking if you see treat one another's mental illnesses/anxieties since is your trade? i thought you were an archeologist though? so which one is it? ???
HAHA!
i'm asking if you see treat one another's mental illnesses/anxieties since is your trade?
I rest my case....
No,I'm not a psychiatrist. That doesn't mean I can't work alongside people who do work as psychiatrists.
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still didn't answer the question. ???
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And I'm 100% black and 100% white!
Oh wait,That makes 200%. Which isn't possible!
::)
You're 100% black and 100% white ???
Hmmmm....my dog is 100% border collie and 100% female......
That's not 200%
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Is english your 2nd langauge? You seem to have trouble understanding it.
Do you even know what a colegue is?
???
I don't know what a colegue is....................do you mean colleague?
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Humbleness is all that comes out of me. :-[
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humbleness is not a word
Alexxx has the right to create it. >:(
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Alexxx has the right to create it. >:(
;D
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Humbleness is all that comes out of me. :-[
Along with CATTLE DEFICATION! ;D
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Along with CATTLE DEFICATION! ;D
Lets keep this thread honorable shall we.
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Lets keep this thread honorable shall we.
Guess that means you're LEAVING! ;D
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Guess that means you're LEAVING! ;D
:P
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HAHA!
I rest my case....
No,I'm not a psychiatrist. That doesn't mean I can't work alongside people who do work as psychiatrists.
Are you a patient :-\??
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He was born of the virgin mary and became man.
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You're 100% black and 100% white ???
Hmmmm....my dog is 100% border collie and 100% female......
That's not 200%
It was a joke. You can't be 200% contradicting things. Border collie and female aren't contradicting. Black and White are.
Either you're 100% black or 100% white or somewhere inbetween.
It's like saying "100% border collie,100% Chow-Chow". Or "100% male,100% female".
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He was born of the virgin mary and became man.
I mentioned this already. This doesn't come from the bible it comes from the Apostles creed of the Nicene Creed.(300 years after the last book of the bible was written)
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Is english your 2nd langauge? You seem to have trouble understanding it.
Do you even know what a colegue is?
I don't know what a colegue is ??? ....did you mean colleague?
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I mentioned this already. This doesn't come from the bible it comes from the Apostles creed of the Nicene Creed.(300 years after the last book of the bible was written)
Matthew 1:23: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel
Also covered in Luke 1:30 - 35
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I don't know what a colegue is ??? ....did you mean colleague?
Yes english IS my 2nd language.
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Matthew 1:23: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel
Also covered in Luke 1:30 - 35
Matthew 1:23 is being written by a jew who is adding the "miracle" aspect to jesus's birth as I mentioned in earlier threads. The gospel was composed between 80-100 A.D. which would of been about 2 generations after jesus supposedly died.
The authors of the gospels tried to make it seem as if Jesus was some kind of divine being being born to a virgin. This however was taken from Pagan mythology(See horus egyptian god). This gets us back to where we started, What jesus HIMSELF said.
Luke 1:30-35 doesn't mention anything about "Immanuel" or implying jesus is God.
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The Book of Isaiah was written by the Prophet Isaiah around 700 BC in which he prophesied the virgin birth of Jesus.
"Isaiah 7:14
Isaiah told King Ahaz, and the people of Judah, that God himself
would give them a sign or miracle. He then recorded it in Isaiah
7:14-16. Isaiah said an "almah," would become pregnant and give
birth to a son who would be called Immanuel. "Almah" refers to a
virgin, or an unmarried young woman who was expected to be a virgin
until after she was married. He also said that both the kings Ahaz
feared, would be gone before the baby boy was old enough to chose
between right and wrong.
I believe this prophecy had a dual fulfillment. The first fulfillment
was when Isaiah went into his "almah," or young wife, who was a
virgin until then, and she conceived and gave birth to a baby boy.
Isaiah 8:3-4. What was the miracle King Ahaz would see? Was it that an
"almah" young woman would conceive and give birth to a son? Certainly
not! Thousands of young women surely became pregnant and gave birth at
this time. A baby boy being born at this time would be no sign or
miracle to King Ahaz. What would be a sign or miracle to Ahaz was
that both the kings he feared, would be gone before the baby boy was
old enough to pick between right and wrong. This would show Ahaz
that the prophecy had come from God.
Isaiah 7:14 also predicted the birth of the Messiah. It prophecied
that a "almah" or virgin would conceive and give birth to a baby boy
who would be called Immanuel. The second and greater fulfillment
of this prophecy occured when Jesus was born. When Jesus was born an
"almah" in this case "virgin" conceived and gave birth to a son who
was called among other things "Immanuel." Mathew 1:18-25. For a
virgin to give birth is a miracle or sign. It is no miracle for a
young woman to conceive and give birth, but it is a miracle or sign
for a virgin to conceive and give birth. Jesus's virgin birth was
the sign or miracle God promised in Isaiah 7:14. In "Encyclopedia of
Bible Difficulties" Gleason Archer also argues that this prophecy
had a dual fulfillment involving a type of messiah as well as the
real messiah."
http://www.trustbible.com/jesus.htm
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It seems I missed the original discusion but I suppose that is the nature of forums .
Regarding the debate on Holy Trinity I think that there is strong argument that Jesus and God are separate entities . For example in Mathew 4:1-2 "Then Jesus was led by the spirit up into the wilderness to be tempted by the Devil. After he had fasted forty days and forty nights, then he felt hungry." Surely you can not argue that Satan would tempt his creator ( Jehovah ) .
And then in Mathew 4:8-10 "Again the devil took him along to an unusually high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory, and he said to him: All these things I will give you if you fall down and do an act of worship to me. Then Jesus said to him: God away Satan! For it is written, It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone, you must render sacred service." If Jesus was GOD (Jehovah ) then why did he not say to Satan "It is me whom you must worship" ?
There are many more examples if you look .
Satan was cast down from heaven because he wanted to be higher than God, I don't think he would have any problem trying to tempt Him.
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Yes english IS my 2nd language.
I didn't ask you if english was your 2nd language.
I asked you if you meant colleague when you posted "colegue." No harm meant in that.
You asked Colossus if english was his 2nd language.
...shall we assume that you were sincere and not trying to be a smart ass about it?
Meanwhile, even for those people that consider english their first language, no one is perfect in anything. .................just another reason for needing a savior! ;D
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Don't you ever get tired of being wrong?
The Book of Isaiah was written by the Prophet Isaiah around 700 BC in which he prophesied the virgin birth of Jesus.
"Isaiah 7:14
Isaiah told King Ahaz, and the people of Judah, that God himself
would give them a sign or miracle. He then recorded it in Isaiah
7:14-16. Isaiah said an "almah," would become pregnant and give
birth to a son who would be called Immanuel. "Almah" refers to a
virgin, or an unmarried young woman who was expected to be a virgin
until after she was married. He also said that both the kings Ahaz
feared, would be gone before the baby boy was old enough to chose
between right and wrong.
I believe this prophecy had a dual fulfillment. The first fulfillment
was when Isaiah went into his "almah," or young wife, who was a
virgin until then, and she conceived and gave birth to a baby boy.
Isaiah 8:3-4. What was the miracle King Ahaz would see? Was it that an
"almah" young woman would conceive and give birth to a son? Certainly
not! Thousands of young women surely became pregnant and gave birth at
this time. A baby boy being born at this time would be no sign or
miracle to King Ahaz. What would be a sign or miracle to Ahaz was
that both the kings he feared, would be gone before the baby boy was
old enough to pick between right and wrong. This would show Ahaz
that the prophecy had come from God.
Have you ever heard the term "Self fulfilling prophecy"? The whole "virgin birth" idea is actually THOUSANDS of years old. It comes from the ancient egyptian myths about Horus the son of the sun god being born to a virgin. This is where the hebrews got it. The hebrews claimed it would occur with the hebrew god in Issiah. Then in the new testament hundreds of years later you've got this jewish guy named jesus preaching things the authors of the new testament liked. So they attributed this old prophecy to jesus. Jesus himself never once implied he was God. ONLY the authors of the N.T. claimed he was God. They stole the prophecy and applied it to jesus thus making it a "self fulfiling prophecy" in the bible.
Isaiah 7:14 also predicted the birth of the Messiah. It prophecied
that a "almah" or virgin would conceive and give birth to a baby boy
who would be called Immanuel. The second and greater fulfillment
of this prophecy occured when Jesus was born. When Jesus was born an
"almah" in this case "virgin" conceived and gave birth to a son who
was called among other things "Immanuel." Mathew 1:18-25. For a
virgin to give birth is a miracle or sign. It is no miracle for a
young woman to conceive and give birth, but it is a miracle or sign
for a virgin to conceive and give birth. Jesus's virgin birth was
the sign or miracle God promised in Isaiah 7:14. In "Encyclopedia of
Bible Difficulties" Gleason Archer also argues that this prophecy
had a dual fulfillment involving a type of messiah as well as the
real messiah."
http://www.trustbible.com/jesus.htm
There is absolutely zero evidence Jesus was born to a virgin other than the claims of the authors of the N.T. The virgin birth idea was applied to jesus BY these authors living generations after jesus died to make it seem as if jesus was somehow special. I've mentioned this before. They stole the old hebrew prophecy(taken from old pagan prophecies) and applied it to Jesus. They basically said "Hey,This guy sounds smart and has some good things to say..Wouldn't it be great if he fit the prophecy?" So they wrote it down in their little manuscripts that he did fit the prophecy. When in reality even the authors could not of possibly known if Mary was a virgin when she had Jesus or not. 2,000 years ago there was NO possibility to determine if someone was a virgin or not. Mary could of easily had sex with jesus's father and lied about it..It was a common occurence back then considering the laws of the time.
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Meanwhile, even for those people that consider english their first language, no one is perfect in anything. .................just another reason for needing a savior! ;D
Oh,Jesus can help you spell now?
::)
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Oh,Jesus can help you spell now?
::)
Of course He can. And of course my point was that no one is perfect.
This includes everyone....even people who point at perceived mistakes make mistakes of their own......
Get it Johnny? I think you understand. :)
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Of course He can. And of course my point was that no one is perfect.
This includes everyone....even people who point at perceived mistakes make mistakes of their own......
Get it Johnny? I think you understand. :)
If jesus helps one spell, Why is it that the jesus freak Colossus can't spell worth a damn?
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If jesus helps one spell, Why is it that the jesus freak Colossus can't spell worth a damn?
LOL...look who's talking......LOL!
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LOL...look who's talking......LOL!
The initial claim was "Jesus helps you spell". Me being an atheist, If the intial assertion were indeed true would NOT be expected to spell.
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The initial claim was "Jesus helps you spell". Me being an atheist, If the intial assertion were indeed true would NOT be expected to spell.
The initial claim was "Jesus CAN help you spell."
And He can help atheists spell too ;D
P.S. He told me to tell you it's spelled: C.O.L.L.E.A.G.U.E.
just messing w/ya ;D
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The initial claim was "Jesus CAN help you spell."
And He can help atheists spell too ;D
P.S. He told me to tell you it's spelled: C.O.L.L.E.A.G.U.E.
just messing w/ya ;D
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
STella just straight up punk'd you, JA!
Now go run tell dat!!! <--- how's that for grammatical error? lol :P
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BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
STella just straight up punk'd you, JA!
Now go run tell dat!!! <--- how's that for grammatical error? lol :P
You aren't making sense.
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my apologies, Johnny. didn't mean to take a shot at you like that.
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I believe Jesus was a MAN and neither God / a god / the son of GOD .
Even the bible slips up now and again on the subject :
Luke 5:16 "And he (Jesus) withdrew himself into the wilderness and prayed to his God."
John 5:30 "I cannot do a single thing of my own initiative; just as I hear, I judge; and the judgment that I render is righteous, because I seek, not my own will, but the will of him that sent me."
JESUS IS GOD
John 10:30-33
"I and the Father are one."
Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?"
"We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."
John 14:8-9
Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us."
Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?
John 12:44-45
Then Jesus cried out, "When a man believes in me, he does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me. When he looks at me, he sees the one who sent me
Matthew 23:37
"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing."
John 5:17-18
Jesus said to them, "My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am working."
For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.
John 8:57-58
"You are not yet fifty years old," the Jews said to him, "and you have seen Abraham!"
"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"
(EGOEIMI)=I AM God. Check it in Greek, from a reliable lexical source, not some English dictionary.
Looking back in the Old Testament
Exodus 3:14
God said to Moses, "I am who I am . This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you.'"
In the Bible, whenever an angel appeared to a man, and the man would kneel before the angel and worshiped the angel, the angel would always say something along the lines "Get up, do not worship me, for I am nothing but a servant just like you." But whenever people would kneel before Jesus and worshiped him, Jesus did not stop them. Instead Jesus allowed them to worship him. Likewise, when people called Jesus GOD, Jesus did not correct them or stop them.
John 20:28-29
Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"
Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."
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Jesus is a myth, like Santa and the Easter Bunny.
There is no proof he existed. Zero. Zilch. Nada. There is no proof he carries out any of these 'miracles' or answers anyone's prayers. It's mere luck that any of these 'prayers' are answered, which is hardly any of the time. Then they say, "Oh, God was too busy then, helping someone else. He will answer my prayer in good time." What a load of Crap! lol.
The whole myth is made up so people can feel better about themselves. They feel they have a big brother in God/Jesus and therefore can turn to him when in need. Humans are very gullible and will believe that sort of thing, especially because a whole storybook (The Bible) is centered around it - thus making it seem more believable.
Generally, Christian people are good folk. Kind and not filled with attitude. That's a big plus, but what they're 'buying into' is simply made-up until it can be proven wrong, which won't ever happen.
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Jesus is a myth, like Santa and the Easter Bunny.
There is no proof he existed. Zero. Zilch. Nada. There is no proof he carries out any of these 'miracles' or answers anyone's prayers. It's mere luck that any of these 'prayers' are answered, which is hardly any of the time. Then they say, "Oh, God was too busy then, helping someone else. He will answer my prayer in good time." What a load of Crap! lol.
The whole myth is made up so people can feel better about themselves. They feel they have a big brother in God/Jesus and therefore can turn to him when in need. Humans are very gullible and will believe that sort of thing, especially because a whole storybook (The Bible) is centered around it - thus making it seem more believable.
Generally, Christian people are good folk. Kind and not filled with attitude. That's a big plus, but what they're 'buying into' is simply made-up until it can be proven wrong, which won't ever happen.
Whether or not you believe in God, Jesus was an actual man. That IS a fact. There is just as much proof of that as the roman empire andthe emperor Nero, Aristotle, Napolean, etc..How much proof do you need. There are historical documents other than the bible.
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Jesus is a myth, like Santa and the Easter Bunny.
There is no proof he existed. Zero. Zilch. Nada.
Not true. There are non-Christian Jewish and Roman historical records outside of the Bible that prove that Jesus really did exist.
Josephus Jewish Antiquities (c.93 C.E.)
(later interpolations in brackets)
"Now, there was about this time Jesus, a wise man [if it be lawful to call him a man], for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. [He was the Messiah.] And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him [for he appeared to them alive again at the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him]. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this date.1
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Pliny the Younger Letter to Trajan (c.111-117 C.E.)
"...they maintained that their fault or error amounted to nothing more than this: they were in the habit of meeting on a certain fixed day before sunrise and reciting an antiphonal hymn to Christ as God, and binding themselves with an oath not to commit any crime, but to abstain from all acts of theft, robbery and adultery, from breaches of faith, from repudiating a trust when called upon to honour it."2
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Tacitus Roman Annals (c.115-117 C.E.)
"They got their name from Christ, who was executed by sentence of the procurator Pontius Pilate in the reign of Tiberius. That checked the pernicious superstition for a short time, but it broke out afresh--not only in Judea, where the plague first arose, but in Rome itself, where all the horrible and shameful things in the world collect and find a home."3
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Sanhedrin 43a (200-500 C.E.)
"On the eve of the Passover Yeshu4 was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place, a herald went forth and cried, 'He is going forth to be stoned because he has practiced sorcery and enticed Israel to apostacy. Any one who can say anything in his favour, let him come forward and plead on his behalf. But since nothing was brought forward in his favour he was hanged on the eve of Passover!"5
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Endnotes
1. Antiquities xviii. 33 (early second century) from F.F. Bruce, Jesus and Christian Origins Outside the New Testament (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1974), 37.
2. Pliny, Epistles x.96, from Bruce, p.26.
3. Tacitus, Annals xv, 44, from Bruce, p. 22.
4. Talmudic designation of Jesus.
5. "Sanhedrin," vol 3 of Nezikin, Babylonian Talmud, edited by Isidore Epstein, reprint (London: Soncino, 1938), 281.