Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Training Q&A => Topic started by: Mr. Smooth on March 02, 2004, 01:23:31 PM
-
Hello All,
I'm new to this forum so if this has already been discussed in detail please for give my ignorance. Has anyone tried the Max-OT workout at :
http://www.ast-ss.com/max-ot/register.asp
To sum it up it consists of one workout per body part per week. All workouts are very heavy 4-6 reps and low volume. I’ve been trying it for a while with good gains in strength but not much size increase. Does anyone else have experience with this plan?
-
Yes I've tried it.
I would say it's a pretty decent workout protocol.
The problems being with the mumbo jumbo that the AST guys puts into it (Cribb, Delia). There's a lot of demagogic nonsense, how the program will only work if you follow it to the point, and how each and every exercise has been evaluated to be fitting into the protocol.
I think there are needs for training with higher reps at times, to strengthen joints and such. I like how they've built the protocol around massbuilding excersises though.
I tried it for cycle, and was not overly impressed. Didn't get any strength or mass gains. I changed from a powerlifting routine to Max-OT. Donät know if that had anything to do with my results.
I believe you will get strong and big with Max-OT.
I am a proponent of HST. Which has a thread on this board.
YIP
Zack
-
Cool I have started this "officially" today. I did all last week to famaliarize myself with poundages. Hedge you are totally right about Delia's B.S. Like most people, however I can sift through it.
Also, I am going to try their little stack of whoremoans. So I am excited about what may come of this.
-
MAX-OT, I've started this week as well, it seems like a legit program, but after 4-6 reps of certain exercises, I just don't feel as drained like when I do 8-10 reps. I've also noticed decreased muscle soreness, anybody else notice this on MAX-oT? I checked ast's website and they claim that soreness is not an indicator of muscle growth, but I thought that the doms is good cuz it indicates that you've created muscle damage.....can anyone clue me in?
-
Well like I said before I took a week to get familiarized with the poundage because I knew I wouldn't get sore (in most cases).
To offset this I really go for failure at the fourth rep and if I don't feel pleased with the feeling I will do an extra set. But that is just me...don't tell Paul Delia.
Still, there are body parts that this workout will not get sore. Biceps, Triceps, Back, Calves, and Forearms are come to mind. Usually I bomb the hell outta these so obviously 3 to 4 sets at 4-6 reps will not fatigue the muscle in that respect.
However, they are good workouts none-the-less. I need some strength training anyway
-
Well like I said before I took a week to get familiarized with the poundage because I knew I wouldn't get sore (in most cases).
To offset this I really go for failure at the fourth rep and if I don't feel pleased with the feeling I will do an extra set. But that is just me...don't tell Paul Delia.
Still, there are body parts that this workout will not get sore. Biceps, Triceps, Back, Calves, and Forearms are come to mind. Usually I bomb the hell outta these so obviously 3 to 4 sets at 4-6 reps will not fatigue the muscle in that respect.
However, they are good workouts none-the-less. I need some strength training anyway
The good thing is that the protocol will target a bigger percentage of your Type 2a and Type 2x fibers (fast twitch). If you've been doing slightly higher reps in the past, you're more than likely going to get a good increase due to this new type of rep scheme.
Your increased strength will be beneficial in the future, no doubt.
YIP
Zack
-
Hey whaddya guys think about Max-oT cardio?
-
Hey whaddya guys think about Max-oT cardio?
Actually, that is the one part of Max-OT which I feel makes the most sense, and is also something which resembles the cardio that I do myself currently.
I'm probably doing cardio with higher intensity, and with shorter intervals, but nonetheless, it involves basically the same principles of raising the matabolism and getting the endocrine system primed for fat burn.
YIP
Zack
-
I need to starting doing some cardio period. I usually run, and I can run fairly well. I don't think Max OT Cardio is right for me.
I just finished my first week of the weight lifting program and I am having fun with it.
-
I thought it would be a good idea to keep this thread updated.
I am still doing the Max OT program and have moved into the "2nd program/phase" of workouts.
Currently I am very pleased with this program, I am setting new set records almost every workout. This alone feels great, but I am also developing additional size as well. Nothing major, but I had mentioned either here or in a previous thread that I am in a "cutting" mode. I haved gained three pounds, and have lost body fat, which is a good thing. I need to measure my gains in my muscle groups, but I have been sort of lazy about it.
-
Soldat,
Thought I encourage you (read: harass you) to keep us up to date with your progress.
Always good to see different training protocols getting tested.
YIP
Zack
-
Thanks man! :)
I can do that. I will post more in the future. I just started this new addition so I am interested to see the difference.
How long did you try it? How does it differ from you HST (is this correct?) method.
-
I tried Max-OT for one cycle of 12 weeks (believe it is 12 weeks at least), two years ago.
It differs quite a bit from HST, mostly in the frequency and the weights used.
Whereas Max-OT trains a muscle group in a split with heavy weights at 4-6 reps once every six day or seven days, HST uses fullbody workouts with progressively heavier weights, and progressively lower reps throughout the cycle.
Meaning, you start with a real light weight at a higher reps (15), and not even close to failure. Then you work your way upwards, and into lower reps. The last two weeks have you doing negative 5reps.
Max-OT will yield great results, no doubt in my mind. Also, I believe it to be slightly easier to follow for newbies than HST.
HST relies very much on the discipline of the trainer to never go heavier or more reps than what the protocol dictates. If you repeatedly goes to failure on HST, you will soon get overtrained.
YIP
Zack
-
Keep up with the updates please, Soldat! I am considering a new training method and with all I've heard of Max-OT I may have to try it. Maybe next time you can include your stats like height, weight, measurements and progress since the program started? That would be great!
Peace!
-
Keep up with the updates please, Soldat! I am considering a new training method and with all I've heard of Max-OT I may have to try it. Maybe next time you can include your stats like height, weight, measurements and progress since the program started? That would be great!
Peace!
This is where I f'ed up. I should have taken measurements before I started. I am going to do them this weekend, but that is after 4 weeks on the program. I do have another 8 weeks to go, but those first 4 weeks give much to cynicism...or questioning the creditability of the program's effectiveness for that matter.
Each time I break into the next phase I will give an update of where I am at and briefly describe the "experience" (thanks Hedge).
Hey Hedgehog, do you have any reference material readily available on HST? I think I may have read a thread about it from you.
-
Hey Hedgehog, do you have any reference material readily available on HST? I think I may have read a thread about it from you.
Sure do:
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?board=2;action=display;threadid=498 (http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?board=2;action=display;threadid=498)
There's a link within that thread to the HST website.
YIP
Zack
-
its crap and the basic principles are stealing from all common logic of lifting !
-
its crap and the basic principles are stealing from all common logic of lifting !
Are you referring to HST or Max-OT?
YIP
Zack
-
The world may never know...
-
its crap and the basic principles are stealing from all common logic of lifting !
Are you referring to HST or Max-OT?
YIP
Zack
Max-ot
-
I thought it would be a good idea to keep this thread updated.
I am still doing the Max OT program and have moved into the "2nd program/phase" of workouts.
Currently I am very pleased with this program, I am setting new set records almost every workout. This alone feels great, but I am also developing additional size as well. Nothing major, but I had mentioned either here or in a previous thread that I am in a "cutting" mode. I haved gained three pounds, and have lost body fat, which is a good thing. I need to measure my gains in my muscle groups, but I have been sort of lazy about it.
Well now I have moved into the 3rd phase of the program. However I am confused on where I go from here. Before, in the other stages, you are given precise workouts to do. Now (as best as I can tell) there are types of workouts to pick. So I need to sit down and figure out what the hell I want to do, but I digress.
This program is great. My strength levels have continued to rise every week. What used to be a "maximum" lift are now my minimums on the program, I talking consistent, not "I am glad I ate my Wheaties today." I have also continued to gain size without gaining too much fat. This of course isn't exclusively thanks to the program, but also to my diet as well. I am currently @ 210 lbs.
Well enough bull-shit I will share some of my new records.
Leg Press 900/4 three times and 950/4 once (most recent) I have done mid 800's consitantly throughout. Using this type of Leg Press
(http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/2002/legpresscalf2.jpg)
Standing Calf Raises
Have improved from 580lbs to performing sets of 600's and 700's consistently. Using a device similar in construction to this...
(http://www.irondog.ca/leverageleg.jpg)
Deadlift has improved to 415 for 4 reps consistently
Incline Bench has gone up to 315 for 4-5 reps consistently
On all the dumbbell pressing movements I have moved into 120lbs, which is an improvement.
I am proud of the last two, because for the longest time I was on a plateau.
There are other big improvements that I have made, but these are the ones that I am most happy for so I will stop.
I don't know what else to say this post is too fucking long anyway...so I guess if I think of anything else I will post it.
-
Looks like you probably have a reached some into those fast twitch Type 2b, while managing to recruiting mostly Type 2a fibers. Type 2 are the bigger muscle fibre, and I think many bodybuilders does the mistake of not, at least for periods of time, train with few and heavy reps.
If you've downregulated the total volume of work, that might be another reason for the success.
Nonetheless, great results. I think you should stick to MAx-OT for AT LEAST two more cycles. Don't get caught in that "mix things up" mindset, if what you currently doing is working just fine. There's plenty of room for alternative excersises within the Max-OT protocol.
...and to think that I don't even consider Max-OT the best... ;)
YIP
Zack
-
Wow! Great results Soldat! I am torn between HST and Max-OT for my next program, but it may have to be the latter. Sounds like it works great!
Well, whichever I choose, I will be sure to keep everyone updated on whats going on with it.
Thanks for the updates! Keep'em coming!
Peace!
-
Hey Soldat, are u following the Max OT principles to a "T"? I've checked out the program and I've noticed for some of the back routines, they'll recommend like 6-8 sets or something like that. Do you add sets, or do u actually stick with the guidelines? And what if u feel like u didn't train intensely enuff during a certain exercise? Do u add anutha set, or dat's it?
-
The first 2 weeks or so I didn't follow it exactly because it was a time for me to get used to it.
From then on I follow it to the letter, because I have learned that if I do push myself to the "Max" ::) I won't need to do another set. The problem comes that sometimes I can't get a spot or maybe I don't get the required reps that I needed to or want to, then I will add another set. This is basically for punishment for not completing what I needed to do.
I think you are slightly confused about the set scheme. There isn't any workout that does more than 3.
As far as reps go, 4-6 is the average, with some 6-8's, 12's and 20's for Abs and in the latter stages you are to do 50 pull-ups (I knew this was coming, because I am familiar with Skip's training protocols).
-
Thanx for the info. I'm plannin on ordering The Max-OT Arms, and Legs videos of Jeff Willet. Anyone seen em? Kinda pricey, but I'd like ta see what they consider "loose form" U cheat on some of the sets or use perfect form?
-
Today marks day one for my Max-OT cycle. I already like it. Its a lot different than Im used to, but it felt good to switch it up. I will update this thread every couple weeks or so. It seems that Soldat likes the program so Im just going to add to the "research." ;D
Peace!
-
Okay, its the 4th week of Max-OT and Im lovin' it! My bodyweight has gone up by a few pounds and all my weights continue to increase. Im not a huge fan of the arm routines but I will follow everything the way it was intended this time around. I've raised my bench by 15lbs, deads by 20lbs, and squats are up maybe 10lbs because of knee joint pain (its killer). I have only been supplementing with protein and vitamins thus far. I will add creatine back in this week. It was just making me sick for a while so I stopped using it. I will also add something for joint pain, shortly.
Overall I like this program very much! I will update again soon.
Peace!
-
Well my initial 12-week tour into the principles of Max-OT has pretty much come to an end. I have been pleased with this program and I’d have to say that it is probably one of the best programs that I have used.
I wish I had some more records to share. Sorry to say that I don't. On week number 8 you are supposed to take a week off, for me (thanks largely in part to work and travel) it ended up being close to a month. During this nearly month hiatus, I concentrated solely on diet and was able to lose a considerable amount of weight (7lbs); I am now 198lbs, which is pretty good I guess. This weight is down from 212 from when I started dieting. What’s funny is that this program sort of made it hard for me to lose the weight. I was holding steady at 205 for ¾ of the program. So my month break is what did it for me.
So anyway once I was able to return to the gym, I spent most of my time trying to get back to the level I was before my break. This is where this MAX-OT showed me what it actually had done for my strength levels.
I was able to pretty much get right back in at the weight where I left, this of course is in the beginning of the workout. Towards the end, my ass was dieing, getting stuck on shit, and doing sets that failed to meet the required reps. It was ugly people! I have fought through and am back where I was so all is good. I believe I will continue to use this training regimen, although not exclusively. I believe in tearing the body down and killing it from all angles and approaches.
-
Soldat, I would suggest you gave Max-OT one more chance, I mean stay with the protocol exclusively one more time.
Why?
I think you would feel great never being the slightest uncertain going into a workout. You've been there, done that sort of. But still hasn't got tired of it. You still know you f**ked up on some of your sets the first time out, some workouts got just little bit mixed up or whatever.
Max-OT gives you the benefit of getting to focus on the diet, since you know the protocol is layed out for you.
With all the success you had in your first weeks, IMHO, you should reconsider your decision.
First time was only to try it out. Now lets smoke it!!!
YIP
Zack aka Motivational speaker Matt Foley
-
Soldat, I would suggest you gave Max-OT one more chance, I mean stay with the protocol exclusively one more time.
Why?
I think you would feel great never being the slightest uncertain going into a workout. You've been there, done that sort of. But still hasn't got tired of it. You still know you f**ked up on some of your sets the first time out, some workouts got just little bit mixed up or whatever.
Max-OT gives you the benefit of getting to focus on the diet, since you know the protocol is layed out for you.
With all the success you had in your first weeks, IMHO, you should reconsider your decision.
First time was only to try it out. Now lets smoke it!!!
YIP
Zack aka Motivational speaker Matt Foley
Oh I hope I didn't come off as a "quitter"! Someone without "intestinal fortitude"! A "Momma's Boy" or "Wussy"!
Seriously, I figured I'd do another round of it then go back to my more traditional training methods of the past. The particular program I followed was the introductory one, I think, AST offers others, and I will probably come up with my own based on the principles.
Thanks for the motivation though!
-
Soldat, how do you like the 4-6 rep range? I'm a big fan of it, but then I'm a taller guy who was pretty twiggy before I started lifting and am still trying to build up strength.
-
I really like it. I prefer to hit it at 6 and use 4 as a minimum. I find it really challenging to keep that number in my mind and doing everything possible to get there short of compromising my form and safety (which is easy to do, if you aren't careful).
-
You've got some pretty good lifts Soldat! Good work :D
-
Yeah, he used this
(http://www.urban.ne.jp/home/krishna8/baby-pro/2001l/numbers-patterns-l.jpg)
So, until we all see a pic, and or video of said 'lifts', let's keep the bullshit to a minimum, ok guys. I mean for Christ's sake, kids surf these pages.
-
So, until we all see a pic, and or video of said 'lifts', let's keep the bullshit to a minimum, ok guys. I mean for Christ's sake, kids surf these pages.
Can you post lil movies on here?
Oh and it touches my heart that you care to research.
FAG.
-
I'm not strictly following the MAX-OT program, i'm basically doing my own version of it because i'm aiming for lots of strength but no size. I use heavy weights, with reps of 1-3 and it really does tire me out. My muscles are so sore right now.
-
Well not to be assuming but it sounds like West Side training style.
-
Everyone should know that Max-ot and all the other advise and supplements on their site www.ast-ss.com is top notch. Just look at the achievements of skip la cour and jeff willet, they are both natural bodybuilders who use max-ot and ast supps who have won numerous competions competing against drug-using bodybuilders. Also the more you read through their Q&A's the more you know you can trust their knowledge. In my opinion that site is the only source of info for me, not all the other bullshit sites who sell shit stuff and advise.
Anyway what im basically trying to say is use their website with no doubt in what they say about training and nutrition and supps and you will be on the way to MAX results
Stick to the low volume training principles as closly as you can, its designed to have a minimal catabolic effect(muscle breakdown) when compared to higher rep, muscle fatigueing(not overload), longer workouts. This is the key to superior size and strength gains, less catabolism.
-
(http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/lkn0001l.jpg)
Well I took a little bit of a Max-OT break.
I adopted the West-Side style for about 10 weeks or so.
I've been very pleased with the results. Some really good workouts are to be had training this way.
I'm going to going back to the Max-OT here shortly and I am excited about my new strength levels.
Has anyone here (besides those that have posted) gone the route of Max-OT?
Oh, and one more thing I forgot to mention....
Slippy is a douche ;D
~thanks~
-
i am on week 12 of maxot and love it.what a change in strenghth in just 12wks
-
DOES MAX OT HAVE AS MUCH AN EFFECT ON SIZE AS IT HAS ON STRENGTH
-
I'm on the MAX-OT training program and I love it. You get in and out of the gym quick and work up a good sweat as long as you are keeping your breaks short. My weights keep going up which is positive and you never really need a spotter because you are not going to failure. I don't really like how you can't work in cardio though, at least according to what they program perscribes. My body has gotten bigger/fuller since I started doing this though as opposed to a pyramid style.
-
There is a Max-OT cardio routine. It is very intense and most opt to skip it.
-
hey guys. good to see alot of gaining here. i to am on my 4th week of the max/ot cycle. i love this program and i know that its not all in my head just because its diffrent and heavy. i use to always use dumbells for all my chest exercises cause of my shoulder but i stepped up and am using bench now. i use to always use anywhere from 95 to 105 pounds dumbells for chest but now im doing 245 for 4-6 reps with this program and i feel a diffrent kind of pump and soreness its awesome. all of my lifts have gone up, and a big bearing on that is because im stepping up and lifting more with more intensity. i was 205 when i started. the first week or two i went down about 4 pounds. Now im 210 with less bodyfat and added 3/4 inch to arms and an inch to my chest. im really impressed. their numbers for calories and such are pretty accurate on the site. its working well for me. next week is my fifth week on this cycle. anyways i love this program. keep it up guys.
-
what are the rest periods between sets for max-ot. Im about to satrt this program and the website didn't mention it. Or maybe it did and i just need to pay more attention. anyway if someone could help me out i would greatly appreciate it.
-
http://www.ast-ss.com/dev/qa_search/full_text.asp?ID=2679
-
I tried Max-OT for half a cycle...I found that it was great for strength gains however my size did not increase (i gained a couple pounds but it was mostly fat probably from the volume decrease) and altho i don't business with taping my arms regularily, they appeared to actually lose some size. I have personally found that when using lower reps more volume is required. I have had great success with 5x5.
-
i tried max-ot strictly as what the program indicates, the strength gain was great, my size was growing as well but there was a lack of definition. so i decide to stop for some time and shifted to muscle defining exercises (sets of no less than 15) for 3 months for a show, after which i started juicing and got on 12 week cycle of max-ot, following everything except that i increased the training time to 1.5 hours due to AAS. at the end of the cycle of max-ot, the size gain was significant, and the best part was, my muscles were symetrical!
-
i tried max-ot strictly as what the program indicates, the strength gain was great, my size was growing as well but there was a lack of definition. so i decide to stop for some time and shifted to muscle defining exercises (sets of no less than 15) for 3 months for a show, after which i started juicing and got on 12 week cycle of max-ot, following everything except that i increased the training time to 1.5 hours due to AAS. at the end of the cycle of max-ot, the size gain was significant, and the best part was, my muscles were symetrical!
Man training has nothing to do with definition, That' what dieting is for, wtf :-\
-
Max-OT is awesome! I've used it in the past but I've never really fully adhered to the whole program, for instance, I'd do a max-ot back routine, and then on leg day I'd do 12 sets with 8-12 reps, and drop sets etc..... Well that was a big mistake! I know follow the principles to a "T" and I'm the strongest I've ever been before! I find it useful to keep a journal so you know exactly the weight, and how many reps you should be aiming for. I strive to achieve more of each in each workout. It's the progressive overload which will result in muscle growth! And if testorage really read the Max-OT training course, he'd realize that HIGH REPS are fatiguing the muscle......not good! Read week 11 of the max-ot protocol, you'll see that going light pre-contest is one of the worst things you can do! I mean, what do you think resulted in the muscle growth and gains in the first place? OVERLOAD! So guess what happens when you start dieting, and lower the weights? You'll catabolic enuff from the diet, and now your muscles are gonna atrophy from light weight. ;D
-
i've just gotta say, the spelling mistakes i'm encoutering while reading the max-ot articles are driving me crazy. You'd think he'd take the time to spell check the ideas that he's "selling" to so many people....
-
Skip La Cour has a new DVD out, where he goes into detail about how he trains Max-OT.
I will check it out. Here's a link to the preview trailer, DVD looks well produced. None of the Okabe editing difficulties, more comparable with the Muscletime.com guys.
http://skiplacour.com/lacour_dvd_pom.wmv
And the info about the DVD:
http://www.skiplacour.com/POM_DVD.htm
YIP
Zack
-
i've just gotta say, the spelling mistakes i'm encoutering while reading the max-ot articles are driving me crazy. You'd think he'd take the time to spell check the ideas that he's "selling" to so many people....
WTF are you talking about? There's no errors.
Hedge, I'll probably order that DVD. I've been doing MAX-OT for two years now and the results are fantastic. I ordered Jeff Willets and they were decent but this new DVD looks better. I'll post my opinion at a later date.
-
WTF are you talking about? There's no errors.
Hedge, I'll probably order that DVD. I've been doing MAX-OT for two years now and the results are fantastic. I ordered Jeff Willets and they were decent but this new DVD looks better. I'll post my opinion at a later date.
One of LaCour's e-books, Think Big, are available for free at this link, on the left side of the page. I haven't read it, but I like a lot of his articles, especially those which focuses on the mental aspect of being in the iron game.
Even though I train HST, and not Max-OT (I've tried Max-OT in the past), I think there's a lot to learn from LaCour, both when it comes to training, but not the least learn from his approach to bodybuilding in general. That is what kicks ass IMO.
http://www.fitrx.com/fitrx/skiplacour.asp
There are some clips available as well.
YIP
Zack
-
Quick question for those that train Max-OT. If the program calls for 3 sets and u get 6 reps on 1st, 4-5 on 2nd and only 3 on 3rd is the weight just right, too heavy, or would u increase cause u got 6 on first set ???
-
Next time you lift, up the weight on your first set by 10lbs or 5%
-
One of LaCour's e-books, Think Big, are available for free at this link, on the left side of the page. I haven't read it, but I like a lot of his articles, especially those which focuses on the mental aspect of being in the iron game.
Even though I train HST, and not Max-OT (I've tried Max-OT in the past), I think there's a lot to learn from LaCour, both when it comes to training, but not the least learn from his approach to bodybuilding in general. That is what kicks ass IMO.
http://www.fitrx.com/fitrx/skiplacour.asp
There are some clips available as well.
YIP
Zack
Do you follow HST to the letter from the HST website?
How long you been doin HST?
-
Hey fellas, did the 12 weeks of MAX-OT and had decent results. Strength went up nicely. Size increase ok.
HAs anyone else's elbow joints (inside arm) hurt like hell? I've tried wraps, glucosamine-chondroitan and different grips on the barbell. Man, those suckers hurt.
Duke
-
I completed the Max-OT training program some time ago, but I can honestly say it was a good structure for what I was looking to accomplish. I achieved more strength than size but thats what I was looking for. I am considering giving it another try. I have kept some of the basic ideas of Max-OT in my current workouts. Overall a very nice program! Give it a try, you may just stick to it for years to come.
-
I achieved my lifelong goal at 44 years of age of benching 300lbs on Max-ot.
Cheers
-
I achieved my lifelong goal at 44 years of age of benching 300lbs on Max-ot.
Cheers
CONGRATS :D
Its amazing how easily Max-OT can get you past a sticking point