Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: TRIX on May 07, 2012, 02:35:23 AM
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http://www.musculardevelopment.com/contests/12-npc-jay-cutler/4313-jay-cutler-and-phil-heath-together-in-boston-for-the-jay-cutler-classic.html
the only pro who could beat him is kai, but its highly unlikely they will give it to him if he deserves to win.
jays over the hill, a 100% jay Cutler could beat Phil, but Phil is getting bigger and jay is getting older
wolf can't. victor can't. Dexter can't ..
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10 Mr O ::)
You realize with Phil's structure he can be defeated pretty easy by guys like Evan and Kulco if they drug up Ronnie Coleman style. He's too small structurally to hold on more than 6 years. If so, it's a political call to get him up there with Ronnie and Haney. That's BS!
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(http://pics.musculardevelopment.com/photos/transferred/JEB_9579wtmk_JBGKBWXHCT.JPG)
If Ed was a bit younger and bit the Ronnie bullet, he'd kill Phil. Ten years is a long time for a small guy like Phil to hold on.
BTW, Troy has no legs.
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http://www.musculardevelopment.com/contests/12-npc-jay-cutler/4313-jay-cutler-and-phil-heath-together-in-boston-for-the-jay-cutler-classic.html
the only pro who could beat him is kai, but its highly unlikely they will give it to him if he deserves to win.
jays over the hill, a 100% jay Cutler could beat Phil, but Phil is getting bigger and jay is getting older
wolf can't. victor can't. Dexter can't ..
If wolfs was from the US he would already be Mr. O.
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3 TIME MR O Possible.
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If wolf had a back like Dorian's, which was from another planet, he would already be Mr. O.
fixed, for truth.
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what it takes to win the O.... the level of training and other things...
not sure that's sustainable for 12+ years.
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phil will always be a horrible mr o because he cant change his structure. hes a small man with big arms
(http://www.getleanin12.com/blog/getleanin12.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/spongebob-muscle.png)
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Phil doesnt have a dominate physique. He is good, but he doesnt out muscle guys like Ronnie did. Kai can beat him, but like the OP said, im not sure if the IFBB wants Kai representing the sport based on his past. But he aint going to win 10.
Kucklo has the tools to dominate once he matures. I think he will has a chance to tie Ronnie and Haney
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Phil doesnt have a dominate physique. He is good, but he doesnt out muscle guys like Ronnie did. Kai can beat him, but like the OP said, im not sure if the IFBB wants Kai representing the sport based on his past. But he aint going to win 10.
Kucklo has the tools to dominate once he matures. I think he will has a chance to tie Ronnie and Haney
he has the tools but he isn't winning anything until he gets rid of that glaze look to his skin and gets on the sauce ronnie was on and branch is on. until then, evan is closer.
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I don't see 10.......Phil will continue to get bigger but sooner or later his structure will suffer via injury, mutation...whatever.
Not hating just splaining!
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If Vic Martinez could stay out of jail (for an extended period of time) and dial it in (not look so smooth) he would have been Mr. O. He has the size and pretty good structure. Too bad he always looks smooth.
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I can't see anyone beating Heath for at least 4-5 years. The fact is he already won which gives him the advantage going into each contest, apparently Branch is the #2 guy in the world ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) really? Branch? Heath despite what we say, he's clean cut, very approachable and is a nice guy. The Weiders know he won't do something stupid to embarass the IFBB or the Weiders. He's a shoe in unless some Ronnie Coleman clone emerges out of nowhere in the next few years.
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If Vic Martinez could stay out of jail (for an extended period of time) and dial it in (not look so smooth) he would have been Mr. O. He has the size and pretty good structure. Too bad he always looks smooth.
Plus his days are behind already.
He is old now. Expecting retirement in a year or two.
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If Vic Martinez could stay out of jail (for an extended period of time) and dial it in (not look so smooth) he would have been Mr. O. He has the size and pretty good structure. Too bad he always looks smooth.
When he is ON, he can hang with Kai and Phil! He has the perfect combination of size and shape.
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impressive glutes on him though
(http://ep.xhamster.com/000/015/075/422_1000.jpg)
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Phil is good, but no way he wins 10.
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If wolfs was from the US he would already be Mr. O.
What does Wolf not being American have to do with anything? Five the Mr. O winners came from other countries (Oliva, Schwarzeneeger, Columbu, Bannout, Yates).
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(http://pics.musculardevelopment.com/photos/transferred/JEB_9579wtmk_JBGKBWXHCT.JPG)
If Ed was a bit younger and bit the Ronnie bullet, he'd kill Phil. Ten years is a long time for a small guy like Phil to hold on.
BTW, Troy has no legs.
Those are the way legs SHOULD look. not like the other 3 on stage. Huge legs was a major step back for bodybuilding and look fuckin dumb. Troy has the best build on that stage by far.
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Phil doesnt have a dominate physique. He is good, but he doesnt out muscle guys like Ronnie did. Kai can beat him, but like the OP said, im not sure if the IFBB wants Kai representing the sport based on his past. But he aint going to win 10.
Kucklo has the tools to dominate once he matures. I think he will has a chance to tie Ronnie and Haney
Heath's record says differently. He's placed no lower than fifth in every contest in which he's competed (and those 5th places were at the ASC and the Olympia). He won his first two pro shows, beating several top Olympia guys in the process, when he was NOWHERE NEAR the size he is now.
His first Olympia in 2008, he placed 3rd (and some believe he should have placed second behind Jackson, as he did as the ASC that year).
Now, he's Mr. Olympia. I'd say that (so far) that's dominance.
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If it wasn't for Ronnie, Jay would have 10 Olympias, 2001-2010. I don't think Phil has the constitution to endure so many years of extreme drug use. Also, some day there will be an Olympia challenger worth talking about that Phil won't be able to overcome structurally.
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http://www.musculardevelopment.com/contests/12-npc-jay-cutler/4313-jay-cutler-and-phil-heath-together-in-boston-for-the-jay-cutler-classic.html
the only pro who could beat him is kai, but its highly unlikely they will give it to him if he deserves to win.
jays over the hill, a 100% jay Cutler could beat Phil, but Phil is getting bigger and jay is getting older
wolf can't. victor can't. Dexter can't ..
OH YA cause there will be no new bodybuilders competing at all for now on right,... 10 years? lol
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If it wasn't for Ronnie, Jay would have 10 Olympias, 2001-2010. I don't think Phil has the constitution to endure so many years of extreme drug use. Also, some day there will be an Olympia challenger worth talking about that Phil won't be able to overcome structurally.
Ummm.....there's the little matter of Dexter Jackson beating Jay Cutler in 2008.
As far as Heath goes, name a guy with a supposedly better structure (other than Ronnie), whom Heath hasn't already beaten. He's beaten Greene; he's beaten Warren; he's beaten Cutler; he's beaten Martinez; he's beaten Wolf; he's beaten D. Jackson.
Who's left?
10 Olympias for Heath? That's a stretch, if for no other reason, because this whole "knock out the champ" mess is GONE. Prior to 2006, it'd been 22 years since a defending Mr. Olympia was beaten onstage (Haney defeating Bannout). Since then, that's happened FOUR TIMES: Jay beating Ronnie (2006); Dex beating Jay (2008); Jay beating Dex (2009); and now Phil beating Jay (2011).
Phil Heath needs another win, to establish a legacy of sorts. Unfair as it is, one-time Mr. Os don't even get the respect that certain "bridesmaids" do (i.e. Gaspari, Labrada, Ray, Levrone, Wheeler). They get more praise for coming in 2nd multiple times than do guys that won the Olympia just once.
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Ummm.....there's the little matter of Dexter Jackson beating Jay Cutler in 2008.
The forgotten Mr. Olympia. Dexter gets no respect..
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Ummm.....there's the little matter of Dexter Jackson beating Jay Cutler in 2008.
As far as Heath goes, name a guy with a supposedly better structure (other than Ronnie), whom Heath hasn't already beaten. He's beaten Greene; he's beaten Warren; he's beaten Cutler; he's beaten Martinez; he's beaten Wolf; he's beaten D. Jackson.
Who's left?
True but bodybuilders don't move up the ladder 1 rung at a time, they come out of no where and some spring into action in giant leaps. Both Levrone and Wheeler 2nd in their Olympia debut, more importantly Levrone did it within 26 months of his first show ever, then Mike Francois came in winning 4 Pro shows rookie year, Ronnie went from 9th to first in a year, Cutler made a giant leap coming in second in 01, Gunter didn't even qualify for the Olympia the year he beat Ronnie, Gustavo came 3rd at the Olympia leap frogging everyone, and let's not forget how fast Phil got to the top, 5 years as a pro. Anyone can step up to the plate in a few years time. 10 years is impossible to claim in a sport like this, not to mention last years line up was very weak, let's see if Phil can do a second before we start thinking he has a lock on the title
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True but bodybuilders don't move up the ladder 1 rung at a time, they come out of no where and some spring into action in giant leaps. Both Levrone and Wheeler 2nd in their Olympia debut, more importantly Levrone did it within 26 months of his first show ever, then Mike Francois came in winning 4 Pro shows rookie year, Ronnie went from 9th to first in a year, Cutler made a giant leap coming in second in 01, Gunter didn't even qualify for the Olympia the year he beat Ronnie, Gustavo came 3rd at the Olympia leap frogging everyone, and let's not forget how fast Phil got to the top, 5 years as a pro. Anyone can step up to the plate in a few years time. 10 years is impossible to claim in a sport like this, not to mention last years line up was very weak, let's see if Phil can do a second before we start thinking he has a lock on the title
Ronnie has a much slower climb to the top. He went from "16th" in '92; he didn't qualify in '93; he placed 15th in '94, 10th in '95, 6th in '96, and 9th in '97, before winning in '98.
I never claimed that Heath had a lock on the title. One of the reasons for that is this whole "knock the champ out" business is done. Nowadays, if you are the defending champ but are off, YOU WILL LOSE. Heck, you can be on the money and still lose, as Jackson did in 2009.
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The forgotten Mr. Olympia. Dexter gets no respect..
I beg to differ. He beat Cutler, pure and simple. He won the 2008 Mr. Olympia and no one can take that from him. He did what Wheeler, Ray, Levrone, Gaspari, Labrada, and Robinson couldn't do.
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Ronnie has a much slower climb to the top. He went from "16th" in '92; he didn't qualify in '93; he placed 15th in '94, 10th in '95, 6th in '96, and 9th in '97, before winning in '98.
I never claimed that Heath had a lock on the title. One of the reasons for that is this whole "knock the champ out" business is done. Nowadays, if you are the defending champ but are off, YOU WILL LOSE. Heck, you can be on the money and still lose, as Jackson did in 2009.
slower climb, yes but not steady, he leaped to the front more or less at the end of his climb and sorry if I directed the entire post at you, I was mostly targetting the ones that think Phil can lock in the title for ten years. ;)
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slower climb, yes but not steady, he leaped to the front more or less at the end of his climb and sorry if I directed the entire post at you, I was mostly targetting the ones that think Phil can lock in the title for ten years. ;)
How is going from "16th" to 1st in six years NOT steady? He went backward from '97, dropping from 6th to 9th. Aside from that, his progression was steadily upward.
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How is going from "16th" to 1st in six years NOT steady? He went backward from '97, dropping from 6th to 9th. Aside from that, his progression was steadily upward.
It doesn`t matter if he went from 9th to 1st or 6th to first, that`s not steady that's an enormous leap, ya he was steady until his giant leap but wasn`t steady all the way through something very dramatic occurred which is precisesly my point, the ones you mentioned (top Olympians) are formidable for Phil but not the only ones that pose a threat as seen in Coleman`s case jumping from 6th to first.
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It doesn`t matter if he went from 9th to 1st or 6th to first, that`s not steady that's an enormous leap, ya he was steady until his giant leap but wasn`t steady all the way through something very dramatic occurred which is precisesly my point, the ones you mentioned (top Olympians) are formidable for Phil but not the only ones that pose a threat as seen in Coleman`s case jumping from 6th to first.
You're only counting his last Olympia or two, prior to winning, leaving out the other three appearances.
"16th", 15th, 10th, 6th, 9th, 1st. I call that steady progress, with a step backwards Where he actually placed in '92 is uncertain (to me, at least) because anyone who didn't placed in the top 15 got lumped into "16th" place.
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If Heath wins 10 Mr. olympias, I will pay Spermataste to give me life coaching.
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Phil doesnt have a dominate physique. He is good, but he doesnt out muscle guys like Ronnie did. Kai can beat him, but like the OP said, im not sure if the IFBB wants Kai representing the sport based on his past. But he aint going to win 10.
Kucklo has the tools to dominate once he matures. I think he will has a chance to tie Ronnie and Haney
I'm not familiar with Kai's background. What are the details of his checkered past?
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:D :D :D :D
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Heath's record says differently. He's placed no lower than fifth in every contest in which he's competed (and those 5th places were at the ASC and the Olympia). He won his first two pro shows, beating several top Olympia guys in the process, when he was NOWHERE NEAR the size he is now.
His first Olympia in 2008, he placed 3rd (and some believe he should have placed second behind Jackson, as he did as the ASC that year).
Now, he's Mr. Olympia. I'd say that (so far) that's dominance.
No, actually what dominance would be defined as placing no lower than 2nd in any pro show entered, winning 6 Olympias with 4 straight firsts (something Coleman wasn't able to do while winning 8) and beating out some of the prime bb'rs in the history of pro bodybuilding, ala Dorian Yates.
Heath competes once a year and beat an injured Cutler like Cutler beat an injured Coleman. Not exactly dominating anything except the toilet paper roll.
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You're only counting his last Olympia or two, prior to winning, leaving out the other three appearances.
"16th", 15th, 10th, 6th, 9th, 1st. I call that steady progress, with a step backwards Where he actually placed in '92 is uncertain (to me, at least) because anyone who didn't placed in the top 15 got lumped into "16th" place.
I think you need to read my post again, cause you aren`t understanding what I am saying, I agreed he was steady climbing for years but from 6th to first is not a steady climb, that is the biggest sudden jump ever and bodybuilders do this every now and then. As far as you knowing the history of Ronnies placing, well I know the history of every pro since the Olympia began in 65 so no I am not forgetting anything.
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No, actually what dominance would be defined as placing no lower than 2nd in any pro show entered, winning 6 Olympias with 4 straight firsts (something Coleman wasn't able to do while winning 8) and beating out some of the prime bb'rs in the history of pro bodybuilding, ala Dorian Yates.
Heath competes once a year and beat an injured Cutler like Cutler beat an injured Coleman. Not exactly dominating anything except the toilet paper roll.
Heath's career isn't finished yet. For what he's done to date, however, I'd say that's dominance. He turns pro his first try, wins two shows his rookie year against top-10 Olympia talent. His lowest placing was 5th (at the two biggest shows in bodybuilding, only because he was off, condition-wise).
Heath won the big one, defeating a two-time ASC champion and two Mr. O's in the process, who were still contenders. As dominating (at times) as Yates was, the only former Mr. O he'd beaten was a washed up, quotation-placing, Samir Bannout.
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Ronnie has a much slower climb to the top. He went from "16th" in '92; he didn't qualify in '93; he placed 15th in '94, 10th in '95, 6th in '96, and 9th in '97, before winning in '98.
I never claimed that Heath had a lock on the title. One of the reasons for that is this whole "knock the champ out" business is done. Nowadays, if you are the defending champ but are off, YOU WILL LOSE. Heck, you can be on the money and still lose, as Jackson did in 2009.
You really believe that? I think they are still obsessed with the exclusivity of the O title and it would take something unreal to dethrone Phil regardless of his build.
They only gave it to Dexter because their chosen one looked so horrific that year. Really Dex should have all most of Jays titles, with Wolf Martinez stealing a few too.
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Phil is almost in a leauge of his own.
Only two people have a chance to beat him.
Those are Kai and Jay. Jay will have to bring a 2009
type look to be competitive and Kai will have to be ultra ripped
and bring the waist down.
As far as Evan and Kluclo they will be very much like Wolf.
They will hit a certain level and find it hard to get bigger.
Phil is so round and detailed compared to the last 2 mentioned.
Evan has a big advantage over Kluco though in the fact he
has that grainy type look that is almost entirely genetic.
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Maybe so...
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Phil will look like an amateur next to Cedric.
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(http://sphotos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/45276_10151174154448901_2143474642_n.jpg)
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Look at Ronnie is his last years. Phil won't go for a longer ride than this:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fb/Ronnie_Coleman_8_x_Mr_Olympia_-_2009_-_5.png/300px-Ronnie_Coleman_8_x_Mr_Olympia_-_2009_-_5.png)
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For the bit more detailed stuff:
Ronnie was 34 years old when he won his 1st Olympia.
Phil was 32 years old when he won his 1st Olympia.
Judging alone from that you could say, well maybe 10 Olympias.
But the chance of that is very, very low IMO.
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(http://sphotos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/45276_10151174154448901_2143474642_n.jpg)
phil getting demolished
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Ummm.....there's the little matter of Dexter Jackson beating Jay Cutler in 2008.
As far as Heath goes, name a guy with a supposedly better structure (other than Ronnie), whom Heath hasn't already beaten. He's beaten Greene; he's beaten Warren; he's beaten Cutler; he's beaten Martinez; he's beaten Wolf; he's beaten D. Jackson.
Who's left?
10 Olympias for Heath? That's a stretch, if for no other reason, because this whole "knock out the champ" mess is GONE. Prior to 2006, it'd been 22 years since a defending Mr. Olympia was beaten onstage (Haney defeating Bannout). Since then, that's happened FOUR TIMES: Jay beating Ronnie (2006); Dex beating Jay (2008); Jay beating Dex (2009); and now Phil beating Jay (2011).
Phil Heath needs another win, to establish a legacy of sorts. Unfair as it is, one-time Mr. Os don't even get the respect that certain "bridesmaids" do (i.e. Gaspari, Labrada, Ray, Levrone, Wheeler). They get more praise for coming in 2nd multiple times than do guys that won the Olympia just once.
If Jay had won 2001-2007 he would be in a much better position to receive a gift in 2008. So you have to take the judges favoritism into account.
Heath is in a great position with the weak lineups of late to receive many "nods" and make it to 8/10 O's if nothing changes.
But i think he has less chance of that than ronnie and jay had because he is small and frail after all
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Those are the way legs SHOULD look. not like the other 3 on stage. Huge legs was a major step back for bodybuilding and look fuckin dumb. Troy has the best build on that stage by far.
this is exactly how i feel.
big legs are shit, and awkward in day to day life...
ontopic: phil is already feeling strong winds, i'll give him another title and that's itl
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If Jay had won 2001-2007 he would be in a much better position to receive a gift in 2008. So you have to take the judges favoritism into account.
Heath is in a great position with the weak lineups of late to receive many "nods" and make it to 8/10 O's if nothing changes.
But i think he has less chance of that than ronnie and jay had because he is small and frail after all
in one year, Coleman went from 9th to 1st in the olympia.
in one year, Cutler went from 8th to 2nd in the olympia.
Dorian Yates' 1st time competing in the Olympia: 2nd place.
IMO intelligent amateur bodybuilders will currently smell blood because of the weak quality in the current IFBB line-up.
I think it is impossible to say that another Yates or Cutler will not suddenly appear and explode onto the scene.
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Phil wasn't better this yr he regressed... All this fuckery bbers like to say yes I'm bigger and tighter....
Phil isn't really even 2 time mr o he cheated he refused to stand behind the line point blank and he was still beaten by Kai ...
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OH YA cause there will be no new bodybuilders competing at all for now on right,... 10 years? lol
None of them worth mentioning other than Cedric, Rhoden, Beyeke, and Kuclo.
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phil getting demolished
Poor conditioning and he still has striations on his triceps...
Kai is more sideways, whereas Phil isn't.
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None of them worth mentioning other than Cedric, Rhoden, Beyeke, and Kuclo.
Cedric is all mouth, the second coming of Tony Freeman.
I don't think Rhoden will size up enough to beat Phil. Personally, I see him getting top 6 spots for couple of years like Shawn Ray.
as long as Beyeke trains in France full-time, he'll be an after note in bbing.
Kuclo, it's Arlington or bust. Shit isn't happen in a Plano suburb.
Evan is blocky, so he just has to size up like Yates and let the chips fall.
I think IFBB will toy with 4-6 wins for Phil, before they uncrown him, or I see him losing like Jay and coming back to win 2 or 3. That's where Kai comes in the picture similar to Dexter. Maybe he has two 3-peats or something like that.
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(http://sphotos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/45276_10151174154448901_2143474642_n.jpg)
Damn Phil getting raped ....
The 'sheru' classic looks like it took place in somone's living room, no ?
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Phil is like the great Larry Scott minus the "great" part. Mostly arms but without Larry's bronze California good looks and the good sense to retire after winning the Olympia twice.
Larry was narrow at the shoulders and had a set of guns on him like few before or after and Phil is in a similar situation physique wise but much larger and more complete than Scott but that's a given with the drugs Phil is on. He may continue to win but the reality of it is nobody really knows what to expect.
Anything could happen and by that I mean drugs and your response to them coupled with such genetic factors as muscle length, etc., make the champion in today's bodybuilding. At any given moment someone like Kai could overtake Phil or their body could just overdose and no longer withstand the variety and sheer amount of pharmaceuticals these guys take today.
A sponge can only hold so much liquid and once it reaches the point that it's full there's no room for more. That's probably what happened to Flex Wheeler and he went the synthol route to add more "muscle".
Just take a gander at how Coleman is doing today. His body looks to be breaking down and no amount of "supplementation" is going to stop that. He won 8 Sandows and is arguably considered the best of all time. His body was able to hold up through many, many years of abuse to achieve what he did. Whether or not Phil's can do the same remains to be seen.
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None of them worth mentioning other than Cedric, Rhoden, Beyeke, and Kuclo.
did you even know who beyeke was more than a year or two ago? in ten years time, there will be some new big names, no doubt.
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NOT.