Author Topic: Dow Crash Coming To Your 401K (2007 to 2022)  (Read 462198 times)

Bindare_Dundat

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 12227
  • KILL CENTRAL BANKS, BUY BITCOIN.
Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #725 on: March 27, 2008, 07:16:17 PM »
Equity Loans as Next Round in Credit Crisis


Little by little, millions of Americans surrendered equity in their homes in recent years. Lulled by good times, they borrowed — sometimes heavily — against the roofs over their heads.

 As the housing market spirals downward, home equity loans, which turn home sweet home into cash sweet cash, are becoming the next flash point in the mortgage crisis.

Americans owe a staggering $1.1 trillion on home equity loans — and banks are increasingly worried they may not get some of that money back.

To get it, many lenders are taking the extraordinary step of preventing some people from selling their homes or refinancing their mortgages unless they pay off all or part of their home equity loans first. In the past, when home prices were not falling, lenders did not resort to these measures.

Such tactics are impeding efforts by policy makers to help struggling homeowners get easier terms on their mortgages and stem the rising tide of foreclosures. But at a time when each day seems to bring more bad news for the financial industry, lenders defend the hard-nosed maneuvers as a way to keep their own losses from deepening.

It is a remarkable turnabout for the many Americans who have come to regard a home as an A.T.M. with three bedrooms and 1.5 baths. When times were good, they borrowed against their homes to pay for all sorts of things, from new cars to college educations to a home theater.

Lenders also encouraged many aspiring homeowners to take out not one but two mortgages simultaneously — ordinary ones plus “piggyback” loans — to avoid putting any cash down.

The result is a nation that only half-owns its homes. While homeownership climbed to record heights in recent years, home equity — the value of the properties minus the mortgages against them — has fallen below 50 percent for the first time, according to the Federal Reserve.

Lenders holding first mortgages get first dibs on borrowers’ cash or on the homes should people fall behind on their payments. Banks that made home equity loans are second in line. This arrangement sometimes pits one lender against another.

When borrowers default on their mortgages, lenders foreclose and sell the homes to recoup their money. But when homes sell for less than the value of their mortgages and home equity loans — a situation known as a short sale — lenders with first liens must be compensated fully before holders of second or third liens get a dime.

In places like California, Nevada, Arizona and Florida, where home prices have fallen significantly, second-lien holders can be left with little or nothing once first mortgages are paid.

In December, 5.7 percent of home equity lines of credit were delinquent or in default, up from 4.5 percent in 2006, according to Moody’s Economy.com.

Lenders and investors who hold home equity loans are not giving up easily, however. Instead, they are opposing short sales. And some banks holding second liens are also opposing refinancings for first mortgages, a little-used power they have under the law, in an effort to force borrowers to pay down their loans.

“Acknowledging a loss is the most difficult thing to do,” said Micheal Thompson, the executive director of the Iowa Mediation Service, which has been working with delinquent borrowers and lenders. “You have to deal with the reality of what you are facing today.”

While he has been able to strike some deals, Mr. Thompson said that many mortgage companies he talks with refuse to compromise. Holders of second mortgages often agree to short sales and other changes only if first-lien holders pay them a small sum, say $10,000, or 10 percent, on a $100,000 debt.

Disagreements arise when the first and second liens are held by different banks or investors. If one lender holds both debts, it is in their interest to find a solution.

When deals cannot be worked out, second-lien holders can pursue the outstanding balance even after foreclosure, sometimes through collection agencies. The soured home equity debts can linger on credit records and make it harder for people to borrow in the future.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/27/business/27loan.html?_r=2&ref=business&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

stormshadow

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1655
  • Getbig!
Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #726 on: March 27, 2008, 07:34:48 PM »
Equity Loans as Next Round in Credit Crisis


Little by little, millions of Americans surrendered equity in their homes in recent years. Lulled by good times, they borrowed — sometimes heavily — against the roofs over their heads.

 As the housing market spirals downward, home equity loans, which turn home sweet home into cash sweet cash, are becoming the next flash point in the mortgage crisis.

Americans owe a staggering $1.1 trillion on home equity loans — and banks are increasingly worried they may not get some of that money back.

To get it, many lenders are taking the extraordinary step of preventing some people from selling their homes or refinancing their mortgages unless they pay off all or part of their home equity loans first. In the past, when home prices were not falling, lenders did not resort to these measures.

Such tactics are impeding efforts by policy makers to help struggling homeowners get easier terms on their mortgages and stem the rising tide of foreclosures. But at a time when each day seems to bring more bad news for the financial industry, lenders defend the hard-nosed maneuvers as a way to keep their own losses from deepening.

It is a remarkable turnabout for the many Americans who have come to regard a home as an A.T.M. with three bedrooms and 1.5 baths. When times were good, they borrowed against their homes to pay for all sorts of things, from new cars to college educations to a home theater.

Lenders also encouraged many aspiring homeowners to take out not one but two mortgages simultaneously — ordinary ones plus “piggyback” loans — to avoid putting any cash down.

The result is a nation that only half-owns its homes. While homeownership climbed to record heights in recent years, home equity — the value of the properties minus the mortgages against them — has fallen below 50 percent for the first time, according to the Federal Reserve.

Lenders holding first mortgages get first dibs on borrowers’ cash or on the homes should people fall behind on their payments. Banks that made home equity loans are second in line. This arrangement sometimes pits one lender against another.

When borrowers default on their mortgages, lenders foreclose and sell the homes to recoup their money. But when homes sell for less than the value of their mortgages and home equity loans — a situation known as a short sale — lenders with first liens must be compensated fully before holders of second or third liens get a dime.

In places like California, Nevada, Arizona and Florida, where home prices have fallen significantly, second-lien holders can be left with little or nothing once first mortgages are paid.

In December, 5.7 percent of home equity lines of credit were delinquent or in default, up from 4.5 percent in 2006, according to Moody’s Economy.com.

Lenders and investors who hold home equity loans are not giving up easily, however. Instead, they are opposing short sales. And some banks holding second liens are also opposing refinancings for first mortgages, a little-used power they have under the law, in an effort to force borrowers to pay down their loans.

“Acknowledging a loss is the most difficult thing to do,” said Micheal Thompson, the executive director of the Iowa Mediation Service, which has been working with delinquent borrowers and lenders. “You have to deal with the reality of what you are facing today.”

While he has been able to strike some deals, Mr. Thompson said that many mortgage companies he talks with refuse to compromise. Holders of second mortgages often agree to short sales and other changes only if first-lien holders pay them a small sum, say $10,000, or 10 percent, on a $100,000 debt.

Disagreements arise when the first and second liens are held by different banks or investors. If one lender holds both debts, it is in their interest to find a solution.

When deals cannot be worked out, second-lien holders can pursue the outstanding balance even after foreclosure, sometimes through collection agencies. The soured home equity debts can linger on credit records and make it harder for people to borrow in the future.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/27/business/27loan.html?_r=2&ref=business&oref=slogin&oref=slogin


Way to step it up and take over.

You need to sift through more of it and boil it down to a few lines like NT does :)

G o a t b o y

  • Time Out
  • Getbig V
  • *
  • Posts: 21431
  • Time-Out in Dubai, India with Swampi the Cocksmith
Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #727 on: March 27, 2008, 07:53:39 PM »
Way to step it up and take over.

You need to sift through more of it and boil it down to a few lines like NT does :)


NT has been dead on in all of his market predictions.  I check this thread daily to see if he's made any posts with information I can trade on.
Ron: "I am lazy."

Bindare_Dundat

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 12227
  • KILL CENTRAL BANKS, BUY BITCOIN.
Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #728 on: March 28, 2008, 08:21:46 AM »
Way to step it up and take over.

You need to sift through more of it and boil it down to a few lines like NT does :)

Yeah I know but don't have the time, wish I did.

Bindare_Dundat

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 12227
  • KILL CENTRAL BANKS, BUY BITCOIN.
Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #729 on: March 28, 2008, 06:36:57 PM »


The US Federal Reserve will make a further $100bn (£50bn) available to major banks in April, trying to ease concerns about a global credit crunch.
The sum, offered across two auctions, is in addition to $260bn provided in short-term loans to the end of March.
Other unorthodox steps include the Fed allowing investment banks to borrow from it directly - previously only possible for commercial banks.
The hope is that the extra cash will ease the fears that banks have of lending money to each other, which have pushed short-term interest rates to record highs, despite the Fed's series of interest rate cuts.

War-Horse

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 6490
Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #730 on: March 28, 2008, 08:54:10 PM »

The US Federal Reserve will make a further $100bn (£50bn) available to major banks in April, trying to ease concerns about a global credit crunch.
The sum, offered across two auctions, is in addition to $260bn provided in short-term loans to the end of March.
Other unorthodox steps include the Fed allowing investment banks to borrow from it directly - previously only possible for commercial banks.
The hope is that the extra cash will ease the fears that banks have of lending money to each other, which have pushed short-term interest rates to record highs, despite the Fed's series of interest rate cuts.



What we are doing is in essence, killing our childrens future.   I never considered that the fed could go bankrupt..(I guess it did when we ran out of gold)  But now its in the mortgage business........geez.

24KT

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 24455
  • Gold Savings Account Rep +1 (310) 409-2244
Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #731 on: March 29, 2008, 03:36:13 AM »

What we are doing is in essence, killing our childrens future. 

Someone coined the phrase "Financial Child Abuse"
w

Neurotoxin

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2101
Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #732 on: March 31, 2008, 04:37:26 AM »
gbers.......... despite all the recent negative economic news, the PPT/Fed have managed to stop/slow the free fall of our stock market. with the Fed interupting in the normal business cycle, we are in unchartered waters.

as i've stated before, our market ran from 10,000 to 14,200 based on strong housing and ones ability to use their home as an ATM machine. (that's over) without the PPT, this market would've already retraced back to the 10k area. also, i personally would not buy into CNBC's "the market has bottomed" hype. i, nor my colleagues believe that's the case.

with earning's season about to begin.....things should get interesting.


btw, it's good to be back......influenza sucks !





Investors pull almost $100 billion out of equity funds



March 31 2008

Investors worldwide pulled close to $100bn  out of equity funds in the first three months of this year – a record shift that accelerates a longer-term trend away from US and western European stock markets



NT


Neurotoxin

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2101

G o a t b o y

  • Time Out
  • Getbig V
  • *
  • Posts: 21431
  • Time-Out in Dubai, India with Swampi the Cocksmith
Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #734 on: March 31, 2008, 08:58:44 AM »
Interesting:




By The Associated Press
Mon Mar 31, 3:12 AM ET
 


The Bush administration's plan to overhaul financial regulation, as outlined in a summary obtained by The Associated Press, would:

 
_Expand the role of the President's Working Group on Financial Markets to include the entire financial sector rather than just financial markets.

_Create a federal commission, the Mortgage Origination Commission, to develop uniform, minimum licensing standards for mortgage market participants.

_Close the Office of Thrift Supervision, which regulates thrift institutions, and move those functions to the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency, which regulates banks.

_Merge the functions of the Commodity Futures Trading Commission into the Securities and Exchange Commission to create one agency to provide unified oversight of the futures and securities industries.

_Establish an Office of National Insurance within the Treasury Department to regulate those in the insurance industry who want to operate under an optional federal charter.

_Work to establish as a long-term goal three major regulators: the Federal Reserve as a "market stability regulator"; a "prudential financial regulator" to take over the functions of five separate banking regulators; and a "business conduct regulator" to regulate business conduct and consumer protection.
Ron: "I am lazy."

War-Horse

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 6490
Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #735 on: March 31, 2008, 10:50:45 AM »
And they say dems grow govt.  ::)   Under the guise of "our protection", the govt will now have unlimited control to manipulate and destroy citizen at will.

This better not pass ,or a miltia call to order, for a staged "National crisis" will put us all in camps.






BTW, Welcome back NT.   

Neurotoxin

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2101
Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #736 on: March 31, 2008, 12:27:50 PM »
Interesting:




By The Associated Press
Mon Mar 31, 3:12 AM ET
 


The Bush administration's plan to overhaul financial regulation, as outlined in a summary obtained by The Associated Press, would:

 
_Expand the role of the President's Working Group on Financial Markets to include the entire financial sector rather than just financial markets.




the financial sector controls the whole market. no surprise behind the PPT/Fed wanting complete control of it.






NT

Neurotoxin

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2101
Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #737 on: March 31, 2008, 12:28:56 PM »
And they say dems grow govt.  ::)   Under the guise of "our protection", the govt will now have unlimited control to manipulate and destroy citizen at will.

This better not pass ,or a miltia call to order, for a staged "National crisis" will put us all in camps.






BTW, Welcome back NT.    

thanks WH, it's good to be back !  :D

Neurotoxin

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2101
Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #738 on: March 31, 2008, 04:21:58 PM »
gbers....


The Fed & The Markets

on a net basis, all the damage for the first quarter was done in the days leading up to each Fed action. in the three trading days before each Fed move ... a total of 15 days since there was some overlapping ...... the S.&P. 500 fell almost 145 points and the Dow Jones industrial average lost 1,003 points.

on the other 46 trading days during the quarter, a net nothing happened. The S&P was up about two points, and the Dow was down less than one point.

what we have here is a picture of a Fed that follows the market, and of a market that repeatedly rallies on the news of a Fed move, only to fall again as more bad news comes out.




NT

G o a t b o y

  • Time Out
  • Getbig V
  • *
  • Posts: 21431
  • Time-Out in Dubai, India with Swampi the Cocksmith
Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #739 on: March 31, 2008, 04:24:57 PM »
what we have here is a picture of a Fed that follows the market, and of a market that repeatedly rallies on the news of a Fed move, only to fall again as more bad news comes out.



Otherwise known as "news you can use".  :D
Ron: "I am lazy."

Neurotoxin

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2101
Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #740 on: March 31, 2008, 04:30:00 PM »

Otherwise known as "news you can use".  :D


exactly !  8)

Neurotoxin

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2101
Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #741 on: April 01, 2008, 03:20:21 AM »
gbers.....



Credit crisis widens: UBS predicts $12B quarterly loss    


April 1 2008 Switzerland (AP) — Swiss bank UBS AG said Tuesday it expected to post first-quarter net losses of $12 billion and would seek $15 billion in new capital as it attempts to recover from the blow it took from the U.S. subprime mortgage crisis.
Switzerland's largest bank, one of the hardest-hit in the global credit crunch, also said in a statement it seeks losses and write-downs of approximately $19 billion on U.S. real estate and related credit positions
 






NT

G o a t b o y

  • Time Out
  • Getbig V
  • *
  • Posts: 21431
  • Time-Out in Dubai, India with Swampi the Cocksmith
Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #742 on: April 01, 2008, 08:39:10 AM »
And yet the financials gap up big, and continue up through 10:45.  ::)


Have I mentioned I love Citigroup?  You can always count on that pissy little $22 stock to move 2-4% intraday one direction or the other.  ;D
Ron: "I am lazy."

Neurotoxin

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2101
Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #743 on: April 01, 2008, 01:58:18 PM »
And yet the financials gap up big, and continue up through 10:45.  ::)


Have I mentioned I love Citigroup?  You can always count on that pissy little $22 stock to move 2-4% intraday one direction or the other.  ;D



April 1, 2008 (MarketWatch)
U.S. stocks cheer Lehman's ability to raise capital
Economic data aren't that great, but not as bad as feared

 
NEW YORK (MarketWatch) -- U.S. stocks on Tuesday climbed higher for a second day Tuesday after a measure of manufacturing activity proved brighter than expected, and separate offerings of fresh equity from Wall Street's Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. and Swiss bank UBS AG drew warm receptions.  

"Investment banks are losing money and need to raise money in the capital markets, and fortunately they are doing it," said Hugh Johnson, chairman of Johnson Illington Advisors.
The Dow industrials were up 391.00 points, or 3.1%, to 12,641.66.
.
"Healthy demand abroad has boosted exports of manufactured goods, offsetting some of the strain from weak domestic demand






gbers..........


no real positive news today, but enough to force another short cover rally. keep in mind this type of market action represents a weak/fragile market.



NT



Neurotoxin

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2101
Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #744 on: April 01, 2008, 02:34:23 PM »
gbers...


UBS to Write Down Another $19 Billion
 

NY Times April 1, 2008
PARIS — UBS, the largest Swiss bank, said Tuesday that it would write down another $19 billion related to the American real estate market and said that its chairman, Marcel Ospel, would step down.

UBS said the write-down would result in a first-quarter loss of about $12 billion, and that it would seek new capital of about $15 billion, the second time it has announced plans to raise money since the credit markets began to contract.



NT


Neurotoxin

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2101
Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #745 on: April 01, 2008, 02:38:44 PM »
gbers....


Lehman Raises $4 Billion to Quell Critics
 
 
By REUTERS
Published: April 1, 2008


NEW YORK (Reuters) - Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc raised $4 billion of capital  on Tuesday by selling convertible preferred stock in a deal designed to stop questions about the Wall Street investment bank's stability.



NT


G o a t b o y

  • Time Out
  • Getbig V
  • *
  • Posts: 21431
  • Time-Out in Dubai, India with Swampi the Cocksmith
Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #746 on: April 01, 2008, 02:43:32 PM »

gbers..........


no real positive news today, but enough to force another short cover rally. keep in mind this type of market action represents a weak/fragile market.



NT


Are you thinking this retraces tomorrow, or not until the next piece of negative news?
Ron: "I am lazy."

Neurotoxin

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2101
Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #747 on: April 02, 2008, 03:05:36 AM »

Are you thinking this retraces tomorrow, or not until the next piece of negative news?


yes. the market is now in a trading range of 11,700 - 12,700. i expect a higher opening on Weds. that is faided/sold off.

goat, without positive earnings.....we probably sit in this range for some time.

btw, money is slowly rotating back into Tech and out of metals.  ;)



NT

G o a t b o y

  • Time Out
  • Getbig V
  • *
  • Posts: 21431
  • Time-Out in Dubai, India with Swampi the Cocksmith
Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #748 on: April 02, 2008, 08:13:18 AM »
Wow...  Bernanke talks shit on the economy, the dow drops like a rock, then half an hour in it takes a hard bounce off 12600 and rockets up well past the open.  WTF?
Ron: "I am lazy."

G o a t b o y

  • Time Out
  • Getbig V
  • *
  • Posts: 21431
  • Time-Out in Dubai, India with Swampi the Cocksmith
Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #749 on: April 02, 2008, 08:24:21 AM »
btw, money is slowly rotating back into Tech and out of metals;)




Jim Cramer:  "Buy gold!  It's going to $1600!".   ROFL, what a jackass.  ;D
Ron: "I am lazy."