Author Topic: Dow Crash Coming To Your 401K (2007 to 2022)  (Read 462203 times)

Neurotoxin

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #1350 on: September 15, 2008, 07:04:13 AM »
you're correct, if we don't break the July low,(1,200) shorts will cover.



NT

dario73

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #1351 on: September 15, 2008, 08:54:54 AM »
GBers, keep in mind i voted for Bush. (which i greatly regret)

i'm simply stating the unbridled truth.

Please explain in DETAIL how Bush destroyed this economy. Please give us anything he signed into LAW that adversely affected this economy and forced it to this downgrade. Make a case that this is Bush's fault and not the investment banks' own fault or even the mortgage companies' carelessness.

In addition to that, maybe you want to throw in how Obama's plan to raise taxes will help the situation. I would like to see you spin that in a positive light.

No, don't ask me to explain myself. You made the accusation about the Bush administration hurting the economy. You seem to forget that up until now, unemployment figures were way less than at anytime during the 1990s and the market was just as strong. You also seem to forget that the economy slowing down greatly in Clinton's last 2 years. Remember the tech bubble bursting? That was one factor that helped get Bush elected in the first place.

Please give a more detailed account supported by facts rather than mere opinion. Thank you.

tu_holmes

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #1352 on: September 15, 2008, 10:54:57 AM »
read the thread kid. i cover the details.


NT

Can I get the cliff notes?

I'm still vague as to how Bush did it myself. GDP is actually up... Unemployment is still lower than before Nafta and what not... I'm just trying to figure it out.

24KT

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #1353 on: September 15, 2008, 11:12:16 AM »
Canada Reacts To U.S. Market Turmoil
Monday September 15, 2008
CityNews.ca Staff


Photo credit: Chris Hondros/Getty Images

The stock markets in the U.S. are having a down day with the sudden failure of brokerage firm Lehman Bros., the latest giant to go down in a heap down south. Unlike Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac last week, the federal government has no intention of stepping in, leading to the disturbing sight of employees at the 158-year-old firm packing up their belongings and leaving the company they've called home for so many decades.

That was followed by the equally astounding news that giant Merrill Lynch was being taken over by the Bank of America.

The impact at home has been immediate, too, with the TSX plunging nearly 300 points by noon. The reaction on Bay St. ranges from worry to certainty that this latest problem is just a temporary blip on the financial map in a country that's having hard times.

"I was surprised by this," admits Mohit Arora. "Actually it's going to impact the Canadian economy pretty badly as well because I think Merrill Lynch and Lehman Brothers, they have operations in Canada."

But Chris Volarinha thinks the market will shake itself off and make a comeback. "I believe that is going to be great turnaround and better days to come as well. But with the way that things have been going down with the write-downs as well, it's just another black eye to the financial world right now."

It's all the result of the collapse of the subprime mortgage down south. What's that?

"The subprime ... is a riskier type of mortgage. The banks in the U.S. and investment companies were looking to expand the real estate market, so they started selling mortgages to people who, under normal circumstances, wouldn't get credit," explains 680 News business specialist Mike Eppel.

"There was limited paperwork, limited oversight, in some cases fraud and things were fine as long as real estate prices continued to go up.

"Then the market started to slow down. Mortgages started to collapse, started to feed on itself. The credit market dried up and Lehman Brothers, Bear Stearns earlier this year, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, they were all caught up in it ... It froze up the credit markets and has slowed down the global economy."

Some - like the Bank of American - are moving in and making a killing. But others are getting hit hard.

"There's so much wealth destruction," agrees Eppel. "You look at some of these banks on Wall Street which were worth hundreds of billions of dollars just a year ago. They're seeing their market values cut in half. So in the short term, a lot of pain. Longer term, there will of course be wise investors and winners."

But for those losing money and their jobs, getting to that 'longer term' won't be half the fun.
w

SUPREME BEING

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #1354 on: September 15, 2008, 11:26:47 AM »
Average guy has started to get into the news and i am hearing every average guy around me telling me how Lehman fucked up.

Not to be offensive but it seems to me that too many retail side bears - every average joker is now talking about the end of the world. Again no offence to people like 240 who are passionate about the news but to professionals - we love it when retail is on the other side of the move. Really you guys know very little about the current situation no matter how much you keep reading the news.

We have to be close to a bottom or at-least a temporary bottom. Too many retailers getting involved.

Again no offence to anyone guys - obviously someone involved in the markets day to day is going to have a little edge on the average guy.

I am looking at 1180 ES as a level for a base.

stormshadow

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #1355 on: September 15, 2008, 11:30:17 AM »
Can I get the cliff notes?

I'm still vague as to how Bush did it myself. GDP is actually up... Unemployment is still lower than before Nafta and what not... I'm just trying to figure it out.

You're an idiot if you think GDP is any indicator of the health of the economy.  GDP tracks how much was spent.  I can go out and borrow for consumption which raises the GDP, are we better off for it?  No, it's Laughable.

You want an indicator of how the economy is doing?  Turn off the fucking TV and look around you.  Record # houses for sale, companies laying off, coworkers losing their jobs, Massive loss of purchasing power, banks collapsing.

It could be raining outside, but idiots like you will host an outdoor BBQ because the government weatherman said it's bright and sunny.


tu_holmes

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #1356 on: September 15, 2008, 11:41:41 AM »
You're an idiot if you think GDP is any indicator of the health of the economy.  GDP tracks how much was spent.  I can go out and borrow for consumption which raises the GDP, are we better off for it?  No, it's Laughable.

You want an indicator of how the economy is doing?  Turn off the fucking TV and look around you.  Record # houses for sale, companies laying off, coworkers losing their jobs, Massive loss of purchasing power, banks collapsing.

It could be raining outside, but idiots like you will host an outdoor BBQ because the government weatherman said it's bright and sunny.



Hey smart guy... I'm looking at numbers. End of story. Are people losing their jobs? Maybe... but what's keeping them from getting new ones?

The fact they're unskilled or unqualified? Is that Bush's fault? People buying houses they couldn't really afford? Again... That's the Bush's fault how?

While the dollar may be falling, it makes it cheaper to export goods... As long as US corporations aren't buying over seas companies... The falling value of the dollar isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Either way... How did Bush do it?

So again... Where's the "numbers" that show that Bush did something to bring this?


24KT

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #1357 on: September 15, 2008, 11:52:27 AM »

While the dollar may be falling, it makes it cheaper to export goods... As long as US corporations aren't buying over seas companies... The falling value of the dollar isn't necessarily a bad thing.


A cheaper dollar is only beneficial to an export market.
The only thing America is exporting these days is war and American jobs, ...so in a sense... business is good.  ::)
w

Mark Kerr

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #1358 on: September 15, 2008, 11:55:19 AM »
Hey smart guy... I'm looking at numbers. End of story. Are people losing their jobs? Maybe... but what's keeping them from getting new ones?

The fact they're unskilled or unqualified? Is that Bush's fault? People buying houses they couldn't really afford? Again... That's the Bush's fault how?
While the dollar may be falling, it makes it cheaper to export goods... As long as US corporations aren't buying over seas companies... The falling value of the dollar isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Either way... How did Bush do it?

So again... Where's the "numbers" that show that Bush did something to bring this?



Yes it is Bush's fault.

stormshadow

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #1359 on: September 15, 2008, 11:55:44 AM »
The only thing America is exporting these days is war and American jobs, ...so in a sense... business is good.  ::)

Exactly.


stormshadow

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #1360 on: September 15, 2008, 12:03:28 PM »
Hey smart guy... I'm looking at numbers. End of story. Are people losing their jobs? Maybe... but what's keeping them from getting new ones?

The fact they're unskilled or unqualified? Is that Bush's fault? People buying houses they couldn't really afford? Again... That's the Bush's fault how?

While the dollar may be falling, it makes it cheaper to export goods... As long as US corporations aren't buying over seas companies... The falling value of the dollar isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Either way... How did Bush do it?

So again... Where's the "numbers" that show that Bush did something to bring this?



Cost of a Corvette = $55,000
Cost in Gold @ 785/oz = 70oz of Gold

70 oz of Gold in 1933 @ 20.67/oz  = $1,446

That means today, $53,554 of $55,000 corvette is INFLATION

Yeah, a weakening dollar is not a bad thing...

Idiot.

tu_holmes

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #1361 on: September 15, 2008, 12:06:03 PM »
Cost of a Corvette = $55,000
Cost in Gold @ 785/oz = 70oz of Gold

70 oz of Gold in 1933 @ 20.67/oz  = $1,446

That means today, $53,554 of $55,000 corvette is INFLATION

Yeah, a weakening dollar is not a bad thing...

Idiot.

You're comparing inflation from 1933 to a car that didn't even exist then.

You're the idiot.

stormshadow

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #1362 on: September 15, 2008, 12:08:50 PM »
You're comparing inflation from 1933 to a car that didn't even exist then.

You're the idiot.

Doesn't matter what the item is.  I just used a corvette for illustration.  The point is the devaluation of the money.

this is not necessarily a bad thing according to you... You watch TV well my friend, and you a good job of Parroting the talking heads.

Care to dispute my math?


tu_holmes

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #1363 on: September 15, 2008, 12:11:10 PM »
Doesn't matter what the item is.  I just used a corvette for illustration.  The point is the devaluation of the money.

this is not necessarily a bad thing according to you... You watch TV well my friend, and you Parrot the talking heads very well.

Care to dispute my math?



The math, no... the fact that it's bad... Yes.

Inflation is a natural part of every economy and it is a reason for a lot of economic growth as well.

stormshadow

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #1364 on: September 15, 2008, 12:17:45 PM »
The math, no... the fact that it's bad... Yes.

Inflation is a natural part of every economy and it is a reason for a lot of economic growth as well.

What economic growth?  Higher GDP from "borrowing" home equity that never really existed?

We had no growth, we had an explosion of debt based financing from cheap borrowed money.

Sooner or later you have to produce something.  What do we produce?  What do you buy on a daily basis that is Made in USA?

If you really believe that Inflation is a "natural" part of an economy, then I'm going to piss on your leg and tell you it's raining.




jaejonna

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #1365 on: September 15, 2008, 01:01:08 PM »
i want to take my money out of my 401k , all i do is lose money in that shit ...what should i do getbig millionaires ??
L

tu_holmes

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #1366 on: September 15, 2008, 01:23:45 PM »
What economic growth?  Higher GDP from "borrowing" home equity that never really existed?

We had no growth, we had an explosion of debt based financing from cheap borrowed money.

Sooner or later you have to produce something.  What do we produce?  What do you buy on a daily basis that is Made in USA?

If you really believe that Inflation is a "natural" part of an economy, then I'm going to piss on your leg and tell you it's raining.





I guess the guys at Forbes don't know more than you do.

http://www.investopedia.com/university/inflation/inflation5.asp

Inflation: Conclusion
Print this Article

After reading this tutorial, you should have some insight into inflation and its effects. For starters, you now know that inflation isn't intrinsically good or bad. Like so many things in life, the impact of inflation depends on your personal situation.

Some points to remember:

    * Inflation is a sustained increase in the general level of prices for goods and services.
    * When inflation goes up, there is a decline in the purchasing power of money.
    * Variations on inflation include deflation, hyperinflation and stagflation.
    * Two theories as to the cause of inflation are demand-pull inflation and cost-push inflation.
    * When there is unanticipated inflation, creditors lose, people on a fixed-income lose, "menu costs" go up, uncertainty reduces spending and exporters aren't as competitive.
    * Lack of inflation (or deflation) is not necessarily a good thing.
    * Inflation is measured with a price index.
    * The two main groups of price indexes that measure inflation are the Consumer Price Index and the Producer Price Indexes.
    * Interest rates are decided in the U.S. by the Federal Reserve. Inflation plays a large role in the Fed's decisions regarding interest rates.
    * In the long term, stocks are good protection against inflation.
    * Inflation is a serious problem for fixed income investors. It's important to understand the difference between nominal interest rates and real interest rates.
    * Inflation-indexed securities offer protection against inflation but offer low returns.


As to your question... The US does create Intellectual Property... That property is very real and very valuable.

All of these people who are losing their jobs and deciding to not learn a new skill that has VALUE are the ones to fault for having no job.

Not Bush.


Neurotoxin

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #1367 on: September 15, 2008, 01:38:06 PM »
GBers, no surprise to us.


U.S. stocks slammed; Dow industrials shed 504 points


Sept. 15, 2008
U.S. stocks tanked on Monday, with the Dow Jones Industrial Average hit with its worst point and percentage drop in nearly seven years after Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. filed for bankruptcy and insurance giant American International Group Inc. scurried to raise capital even as its market value was axed by distraught investors. The Dow Jones Industrial Average plunged 504.48 points, or 4.4%, to 10,917.51.



NT

Mark Kerr

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #1368 on: September 15, 2008, 01:51:12 PM »
GBers, no surprise to us.


U.S. stocks slammed; Dow industrials shed 504 points


Sept. 15, 2008
U.S. stocks tanked on Monday, with the Dow Jones Industrial Average hit with its worst point and percentage drop in nearly seven years after Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. filed for bankruptcy and insurance giant American International Group Inc. scurried to raise capital even as its market value was axed by distraught investors. The Dow Jones Industrial Average plunged 504.48 points, or 4.4%, to 10,917.51.



NT

Do you think America will be bankrupt in five years?

stormshadow

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #1369 on: September 15, 2008, 02:07:21 PM »
Do you think America will be bankrupt in five years?

Our government went bankrupt in 1933 bro.

TerminalPower

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #1370 on: September 15, 2008, 02:12:12 PM »
I guess the guys at Forbes don't know more than you do.

http://www.investopedia.com/university/inflation/inflation5.asp

Inflation: Conclusion
Print this Article

After reading this tutorial, you should have some insight into inflation and its effects. For starters, you now know that inflation isn't intrinsically good or bad. Like so many things in life, the impact of inflation depends on your personal situation.

Some points to remember:

    * Inflation is a sustained increase in the general level of prices for goods and services.
    * When inflation goes up, there is a decline in the purchasing power of money.
    * Variations on inflation include deflation, hyperinflation and stagflation.
    * Two theories as to the cause of inflation are demand-pull inflation and cost-push inflation.
    * When there is unanticipated inflation, creditors lose, people on a fixed-income lose, "menu costs" go up, uncertainty reduces spending and exporters aren't as competitive.
    * Lack of inflation (or deflation) is not necessarily a good thing.
    * Inflation is measured with a price index.
    * The two main groups of price indexes that measure inflation are the Consumer Price Index and the Producer Price Indexes.
    * Interest rates are decided in the U.S. by the Federal Reserve. Inflation plays a large role in the Fed's decisions regarding interest rates.
    * In the long term, stocks are good protection against inflation.
    * Inflation is a serious problem for fixed income investors. It's important to understand the difference between nominal interest rates and real interest rates.
    * Inflation-indexed securities offer protection against inflation but offer low returns.


As to your question... The US does create Intellectual Property... That property is very real and very valuable.

All of these people who are losing their jobs and deciding to not learn a new skill that has VALUE are the ones to fault for having no job.

Not Bush.



Wow more useful information in this single post of yours than in the hundreds of "doomsday" predictions of the original poster.  

Now is great time to look for bargains.

As for those who that take joy in seeing market go down 500+ points because they invested themselves and their opinions in near worthless cynicism.  Be ashamed, monkeys predict doom and gloom, smart investors and analysts find the value of stocks in all conditions and over the long term make nice gains and profits.  

I myself love when the market over corrects to the negative, it usually provides the wiser investor better opportunities for the future.  Look how many plummets happened in the Clinton years that we all (hopefully) made money off of.  

BUY LOW...SELL HIGH!  Today provides us all many opportunities, would you be capable of recognizing them and are you willing to accept the risk vs. reward?  
1

tu_holmes

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #1371 on: September 15, 2008, 02:52:35 PM »
Wow more useful information in this single post of yours than in the hundreds of "doomsday" predictions of the original poster.  

Now is great time to look for bargains.

As for those who that take joy in seeing market go down 500+ points because they invested themselves and their opinions in near worthless cynicism.  Be ashamed, monkeys predict doom and gloom, smart investors and analysts find the value of stocks in all conditions and over the long term make nice gains and profits.  

I myself love when the market over corrects to the negative, it usually provides the wiser investor better opportunities for the future.  Look how many plummets happened in the Clinton years that we all (hopefully) made money off of.  

BUY LOW...SELL HIGH!  Today provides us all many opportunities, would you be capable of recognizing them and are you willing to accept the risk vs. reward?  

I guess my point is that no matter what direction your political leaning is... to blame the economy on Bush is wrong.

Neither party will balance the budget... Neither will curb spending... The difference is one will put us in debt more than the other because one wants to raise taxes and the other does not... Neither will shrink the government.

Is this a problem? Perhaps, but it's certainly not the President's fault.

Also, what we are seeing are common items in a capitalist economy... The truth is that the economy while not as good as it was in the late 90s, is not as bad as people are making it out to be. There is still a lot of opportunity for people to make money if they have a good skill and are intelligent about it.

I'm tired of people saying the middle class is being destroyed... Especially when they destroyed it. The Unions paying people far beyond the value of what they actually provide... and when your job is gone... Instead of going out and getting a real skill, they just sit and bitch.

I know 2 guys who had 15 years to use up their GI Bills from when they served... They didn't get an education, they got factory jobs, and if their jobs are gone, they will bitch about it and say it's wrong.

I don't know what planet you guys live on, but when I was born I wasn't promised anything except that you gotta work. No free lunch. If my skill becomes obsolete, I'll get a new one.

There is no guarantee that your job will still be valued in the future... That's why we have a lot of  auto mechanics and not a lot of blacksmiths.

Why I work in the IT field and not the Zeppelin field... The world changes and you have to change with it.

If someone doesn't have a job and they complain to me... They're talking to the wrong person. Especially if they have opportunity and squander it.


Neurotoxin

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #1372 on: September 15, 2008, 02:58:27 PM »
Fed Adds Most Reserves Since 9/11 as Banks Hoard Cash  



Sept. 15  The Federal Reserve added $70 billion in reserves to the banking system, the most since the September 2001 terrorist attacks, to reverse a surge in borrowing costs sparked by the collapse of Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc.



NT


Mark Kerr

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #1373 on: September 15, 2008, 03:03:57 PM »

Mark, we're bankrupt now.



NT

Let me re-phase.

How long before the Feds admit that the country is bankrupt?

How long till other countries stop lending us money? 

Neurotoxin

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #1374 on: September 15, 2008, 03:44:13 PM »
Let me re-phase.

How long before the Feds admit that the country is bankrupt?

How long till other countries stop lending us money?  


1) never.

2) as long as China etc. continue selling us their products and maintain a large trade gap with the US....they'll keep us afloat for some time.

BTW, a great buying opportunity awaits those who are patient.  ;D



NT