Author Topic: Dow Crash Coming To Your 401K (2007 to 2022)  (Read 462219 times)

Neurotoxin

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1525 on: September 29, 2008, 03:37:29 PM »
GBers... in the end, a bailout bill will have to pass. doing nothing is not a viable option.

regardless of the bailout, our economy is still headed for a severe recession which i expect to linger thru 2009.

upcoming holiday sales will confirm my opinion.


NT






 

Neurotoxin

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1526 on: September 29, 2008, 05:01:26 PM »
owning a printing press sure comes in handy.  ;)


NT



Fed Pumps Further $630 Billion Into Financial System 



Sept. 29  The Federal Reserve will pump an additional $630 billion into the global financial system, flooding banks with cash to alleviate the worst banking crisis since the Great Depression.


The Fed's expansion of liquidity, the biggest since credit markets seized up last year, came hours before the U.S. House of Representatives rejected a $700 billion bailout for the financial industry. The crisis is reverberating through the global economy, causing stocks to plunge and forcing European governments to rescue four banks over the past two days alone





Hugo Chavez

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1527 on: September 29, 2008, 07:40:27 PM »
owning a printing press sure comes in handy.  ;)


NT



Fed Pumps Further $630 Billion Into Financial System 



Sept. 29  The Federal Reserve will pump an additional $630 billion into the global financial system, flooding banks with cash to alleviate the worst banking crisis since the Great Depression.


The Fed's expansion of liquidity, the biggest since credit markets seized up last year, came hours before the U.S. House of Representatives rejected a $700 billion bailout for the financial industry. The crisis is reverberating through the global economy, causing stocks to plunge and forcing European governments to rescue four banks over the past two days alone





could you explain how they pump money into the system?  They print it, then what?  Who gets it?

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1528 on: September 29, 2008, 07:45:02 PM »
I also have a question about this Suze Orman, she just warned off a caller from buying into the market.  I'm new to this but this seems like the prime time to hunt for undervalued stocks.  Just going off of her demeaner, she sounds like a crazed cocaine addict who is actually for real insane.  Hook me up here NT?  Is she full of shit?

stormshadow

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1529 on: September 29, 2008, 07:45:38 PM »
could you explain how they pump money into the system?  They print it, then what?  Who gets it?

When the government "prints" up a treasury bond and sells it to the Fed, it becomes an asset on the books of the Fed and they can create new loans from that asset at 9:1

There is only one way to create money, and that is by leveraging off of a debt instrument, promissory note (Treasury bond), etc.




Hugo Chavez

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1530 on: September 29, 2008, 07:49:56 PM »
When the government "prints" up a treasury bond and sells it to the Fed, it becomes an asset on the books of the Fed and they can create new loans from that asset at 9:1

There is only one way to create money, and that is by leveraging off of a debt instrument, promissory note (Treasury bond), etc.




thanks! What is being leveraged off to create the new money?  Or did I misunderstand?

stormshadow

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1531 on: September 29, 2008, 07:52:52 PM »
I also have a question about this Suze Orman, she just warned off a caller from buying into the market.  I'm new to this but this seems like the prime time to hunt for undervalued stocks.  Just going off of her demeaner, she sounds like a crazed cocaine addict who is actually for real insane.  Hook me up here NT?  Is she full of shit?

They have ALL been full of shit.  How many journalists and financial "talking heads" have pumped the "Max the 401k", "Max the Roth IRA", and BUY! BUY! BUY! mentality for a long term investment approach?

It all sounds fine and dandy until you see a complete meltdown of the market, and all of a sudden you start to think "Hey, maybe the value of my stock isn't going to go back up."

Listening to anyone on TV (maybe outside of Peter Schiff) is financial suicide.

That is why I have been a supporter of NT's thread from day one.  I could see that things were not good, and he was one of the very few to have the balls to state it for the record, and stay with his opinion.

24KT

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1532 on: September 29, 2008, 07:58:03 PM »
I also have a question about this Suze Orman, she just warned off a caller from buying into the market.  I'm new to this but this seems like the prime time to hunt for undervalued stocks.  Just going off of her demeaner, she sounds like a crazed cocaine addict who is actually for real insane.  Hook me up here NT?  Is she full of shit?

Suze Orman is the financial guru for the Oprah crowd. She's been a guest on Oprah for years.
She teaches money management. Every so often Oprah brings her on to do a Neuro Toxin for her audience.
She was on the other day, ...and was sooo forceful and opinionated about her advice that Oprah admitted to making quite a few phone calls after they finished taping. Oprah seemed real happy about those phone calls she made too.
w

stormshadow

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1533 on: September 29, 2008, 08:00:40 PM »
thanks! What is being leveraged off to create the new money?  Or did I misunderstand?

The government prints a Treasury Bond out of thin air.  When they sell it on the open market, this creates more government debt, but does not create monetary inflation because no new money was created.

When they sell it to the Fed, the Federal Reserve Bank will credit the account of the Treasury for the amount of the Bond (this option creates monetary inflation).

The money is created out of thin air, but it is disguised with the banking involved.

So the Fed now has an asset - the Treasury Bond, the Government's Promise to Pay (promissory note).  Banks can use assets to create new money that they do not have.  So if that Government Bond was for 1,000,000,000 - the Fed can create 9,000,000,000 in new money to lend to banks, governments, etc.  For practical purposes, there really is no limit to the amount of money they can create.

24KT

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1534 on: September 29, 2008, 08:01:41 PM »
When the government "prints" up a treasury bond and sells it to the Fed, it becomes an asset on the books of the Fed and they can create new loans from that asset at 9:1

There is only one way to create money, and that is by leveraging off of a debt instrument, promissory note (Treasury bond), etc.


Interesting... Suze adamantly said the ONLY place Americans should be putting their money in this current climate is in Treasury bills.
w

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1535 on: September 29, 2008, 08:08:08 PM »
something stinks...

stormshadow

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1536 on: September 29, 2008, 08:10:13 PM »

stormshadow

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1537 on: September 29, 2008, 08:14:34 PM »
Interesting... Suze adamantly said the ONLY place Americans should be putting their money in this current climate is in Treasury bills.

The Treasury Bond is the backing of our dollar.  It is the government's pledge to first dibs on the labor of all 14th amendment citizens through the income tax. 

As soon as American's stop making payment on debts, the whole system collapses.

Since our bankruptcy on March 9th of 1933 - the sweat equity of the American "citizen" is all that was left to mortgage to the International Bankers.

Bindare_Dundat

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1538 on: September 29, 2008, 08:41:53 PM »
Suze Orman is the financial guru for the Oprah crowd. She's been a guest on Oprah for years.
She teaches money management. Every so often Oprah brings her on to do a Neuro Toxin for her audience.
She was on the other day, ...and was sooo forceful and opinionated about her advice that Oprah admitted to making quite a few phone calls after they finished taping. Oprah seemed real happy about those phone calls she made too.


Maybe Suze and Oprah should run for President and VP.  ::)

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1539 on: September 29, 2008, 09:46:38 PM »
WTF?  This bitch, suze, is back on Larry King with absolute warnings not to invest in the market at this time.  I call BS...  IMO now would be the absolutley best time to hunt for the right stock.  I think this fucking bitch is hooking up her buddies.  Your loss on the early worm is her and her friend's gain...  NT, opinion?  again, newb alert, I'm pretty fresh into reading this book lol...

Bindare_Dundat

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1540 on: September 29, 2008, 10:28:34 PM »
ldsfkjlfdg!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Damn lag. Sorry, ignore.

24KT

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1541 on: September 29, 2008, 10:40:20 PM »
WTF?  This bitch, suze, is back on Larry King with absolute warnings not to invest in the market at this time.  I call BS...  IMO now would be the absolutley best time to hunt for the right stock.  I think this fucking bitch is hooking up her buddies.  Your loss on the early worm is her and her friend's gain...  NT, opinion?  again, newb alert, I'm pretty fresh into reading this book lol...

Only if you're planning to go long. The real money was made when the guys shorted.

I think this is where most people get confused IMO.

It's not when you have a bull market that the wealth is created. That's when alot of little guys see a few bucks, here & there. The returns are diminishes by the overall numbers sharing in the windfall.

It's during the crash that fortunes are made and tremendous amounts of wealth are transferred into the hands of a few.

It's like a $10,000,000 dollar lottery jackpot shared among 100 million lottery players. Ya, each gets a piece of the prize? Whoopteydoo, ...they've all made a dime.  Or, you could have 100,000 million lottery players, with only 2 sets of winning numbers. 999,999,998 people lost big time, ...but there are 2 guys happier than a pig in poop.

Alot has been said about the stock market crash of 1929 which ushered in the great depression, ...but what they won't tell you is that in that crash... fortunes were made.

Perhaps, this is simply their way of letting Buzzy Krongard finally collect his stock market windfall that he couldn't collect on Sept 12, 2001
w

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1542 on: September 29, 2008, 10:58:34 PM »
Only if you're planning to go long. The real money was made when the guys shorted.

I think this is where most people get confused IMO.

It's not when you have a bull market that the wealth is created. That's when alot of little guys see a few bucks, here & there. The returns are diminishes by the overall numbers sharing in the windfall.

It's during the crash that fortunes are made and tremendous amounts of wealth are transferred into the hands of a few.

It's like a $10,000,000 dollar lottery jackpot shared among 100 million lottery players. Ya, each gets a piece of the prize? Whoopteydoo, ...they've all made a dime.  Or, you could have 100,000 million lottery players, with only 2 sets of winning numbers. 999,999,998 people lost big time, ...but there are 2 guys happier than a pig in poop.

Alot has been said about the stock market crash of 1929 which ushered in the great depression, ...but what they won't tell you is that in that crash... fortunes were made.

Perhaps, this is simply their way of letting Buzzy Krongard finally collect his stock market windfall that he couldn't collect on Sept 12, 2001
like I said, I'm new to this but I think you're wrong.  I bolded the right stock.  I think this is a good time to look for the right undervalued stock. For her to tell people not even to consider the market is odd to me.  From what I've learned, this is the prime time to hunt.  What I just said is in regards to your "only if you go long" comment.  If I had played real money this year instead of investopedia I'd be happy as hell.   This one year performance would have been better than buffet's %. not that this means jack first year without real money.  Also they just put an end to shorting, unless i misunderstand.  Anyway, if you can hit the right stock at this time, you're in the big money in a few years, not having to short or think long

Neurotoxin

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1543 on: September 30, 2008, 02:35:27 AM »
WTF?  This bitch, suze, is back on Larry King with absolute warnings not to invest in the market at this time.  I call BS...  IMO now would be the absolutley best time to hunt for the right stock.   I think this fucking bitch is hooking up her buddies.  Your loss on the early worm is her and her friend's gain...  NT, opinion?  again, newb alert, I'm pretty fresh into reading this book lol...

you're absolutely correct. this is the precise time (when panic sets in) professionals begin looking for stocks.

pay no attention to the Cramer's and Orman's of the world, if you do, plan on losing your money. 

at Dow 14,000 Cramer and Orman were saying  "buy buy buy". smart money did the exact opposite.....sold short. now that everyone is saying "sell sell sell", smart money is looking at buying opportunities.

BTW, the Dow is approx. 4,000 points lower since this thread began.  ;)



NT
 




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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1544 on: September 30, 2008, 03:19:48 AM »
like I said, I'm new to this but I think you're wrong.  I bolded the right stock.  I think this is a good time to look for the right undervalued stock. For her to tell people not even to consider the market is odd to me.  From what I've learned, this is the prime time to hunt.  What I just said is in regards to your "only if you go long" comment.  If I had played real money this year instead of investopedia I'd be happy as hell.   This one year performance would have been better than buffet's %. not that this means jack first year without real money.  Also they just put an end to shorting, unless i misunderstand.  Anyway, if you can hit the right stock at this time, you're in the big money in a few years, not having to short or think long

Understand though, Suze's advise is to the Oprah viewr. They aren't in the same investment league as Oprah.
Infact, the average American is by law, shut out of the really great investments. It's almost like being invited to the party of the year, ...only to discover you're the valet parking attendant, and don't actually get to go inside. You can hear the music from out in the driveway, ...and if you hustle, ...you might pick up some good tips, ...but it's not the same as being inside mingling with the other guests, sipping champagne, or nibbling hors d'oeurves

I understand your jubilation over your choices, ...but trust me when I tell you, when you're working with real money, ...it's a whole other ballgame. I paper traded commodities for years, ...made a heckuva lot of money doing it (on paper). It's easy to make bold moves when you're just paper trading. When it comes to the real thing, ...you gotta have ovaries of steel to make the same moves.

I've always preferred commodities to stocks. I've always thought of stocks as nothing more than vapour ware, and quite frankly, ...they scare the poop out of me. Or maybe I've just read too much Kiyosaki, ...but commodities, ...to me, ...those are real, ...they're solid, ...they're tangible, ...and will always generate a demand.
w

stormshadow

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1545 on: September 30, 2008, 06:05:53 AM »
Understand though, Suze's advise is to the Oprah viewr. They aren't in the same investment league as Oprah.
Infact, the average American is by law, shut out of the really great investments. It's almost like being invited to the party of the year, ...only to discover you're the valet parking attendant, and don't actually get to go inside. You can hear the music from out in the driveway, ...and if you hustle, ...you might pick up some good tips, ...but it's not the same as being inside mingling with the other guests, sipping champagne, or nibbling hors d'oeurves

I understand your jubilation over your choices, ...but trust me when I tell you, when you're working with real money, ...it's a whole other ballgame. I paper traded commodities for years, ...made a heckuva lot of money doing it (on paper). It's easy to make bold moves when you're just paper trading. When it comes to the real thing, ...you gotta have ovaries of steel to make the same moves.

I've always preferred commodities to stocks. I've always thought of stocks as nothing more than vapour ware, and quite frankly, ...they scare the poop out of me. Or maybe I've just read too much Kiyosaki, ...but commodities, ...to me, ...those are real, ...they're solid, ...they're tangible, ...and will always generate a demand.

When I read your third sentence I could tell you were a Kiyosaki fan.  In fact, the book that influenced it was his third book - Rich Dad's Guide to Investing...

Damn I'm good, now will u post some bikini shots?

Decker

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1546 on: September 30, 2008, 09:10:10 AM »
GBers... in the end, a bailout bill will have to pass. doing nothing is not a viable option.

regardless of the bailout, our economy is still headed for a severe recession which i expect to linger thru 2009.

upcoming holiday sales will confirm my opinion.


NT






 
I agree with you on that one.  Should the relief be top down or bottom up?  Or some combination of the two?

Neurotoxin

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1547 on: September 30, 2008, 01:34:06 PM »
I agree with you on that one.  Should the relief be top down or bottom up?  Or some combination of the two?


our economy grows when the middle class has disposable income. trickle down economic's has never proven itself to bear fruit.


NT


Neurotoxin

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1548 on: September 30, 2008, 01:38:47 PM »
typical short cover rally after an 800 point decline. Dow advanced 485 points on light volume.

NT


Stocks Extend Gains, But Volume Remains Soft


9/30/2008  Stocks pushed higher late Tuesday, further recouping the prior session's huge losses. But despite the indexes' big gains, there were few highly ranked issues rising on heavy volume.



Decker

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1549 on: September 30, 2008, 01:41:55 PM »

our economy grows when the middle class has disposable income. trickle down economic's has never proven itself to bear fruit.


NT


I like the way you think.