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Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Sports Discussion Boards => Topic started by: technokc on May 03, 2008, 12:22:39 PM
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As good as this kid is he doesnt get the respect he deserves from the casual fan. I think for anyone who follows the NBA seriously will agree that he is now the best point gaurd in the league. My question though is were does he stand in terms of best players? Top 5? Top 10? I can only think of two players for sure that are better than him; Kobe and Lebron.
Thoughts
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I'd say he had one of the best seasons of any player in the NBA, but it's a little early to put him at the top of the list. Tony Parker is an NBA Finals MVP. So is Duncan. Nash is a two-time league MVP. Dwight Howard is a beast. Deron Williams is a player. Kidd is a walking triple double. Bosh might be the best player nobody ever talks about.
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I'd say he had one of the best seasons of any player in the NBA, but it's a little early to put him at the top of the list. Tony Parker is an NBA Finals MVP. So is Duncan. Nash is a two-time league MVP. Dwight Howard is a beast. Deron Williams is a player. Kidd is a walking triple double. Bosh might be the best player nobody ever talks about.
Im just thinking in terms right now and not overall careers, Nash, Duncan, and Kidd are better players over their career, but if Im starting a team today I wouldnt take them over Paul. Parker is great and is pretty comparable. My only problem with Howard is that he is somtimes inconsistent with his effort, though he is getting better at it. Of course I love Deron since he's on my Jazz, but I think Paul is slightly ahead of him. You make a good point with Bosh, brother gets no love, looks like he could have a career similiar to KG.
Like I said though there are players comparable to Paul, but only Kobe and Lebron stands out as for sure better.
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Im just thinking in terms right now and not overall careers, Nash, Duncan, and Kidd are better players over their career, but if Im starting a team today I wouldnt take them over Paul. Parker is great and is pretty comparable. My only problem with Howard is that he is somtimes inconsistent with his effort, though he is getting better at it. Of course I love Deron since he's on my Jazz, but I think Paul is slightly ahead of him. You make a good point with Bosh, brother gets no love, looks like he could have a career similiar to KG.
Like I said though there are players comparable to Paul, but only Kobe and Lebron stands out as for sure better.
I pretty much agree. If I were starting a team today, with the current group of players in the league, he would probably be my point guard.
Don't forget about a healthy D-Wade.
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I like D-Wade as a person, but right now, this is CP's world...and no one else is even close.
He almost single-handedly dismantled the Spurs in the 4th quarter tonite. Even though Tim Duncan had a really bad game, the Hornets should win this series.
Around the corner and assuming they get there, I don't know that the Lakers have an answer for him.
This is a great year to be an NBA fan.
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It was David West that single-handedly dismantled the Spurs.
And the double and triple teams of Duncan. Good game for the Hornets.
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The Hornets don't have an answer for Kobe. Neither does the rest of the NBA.
But CP3 is a player.
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The Hornets don't have an answer for Kobe. Neither does the rest of the NBA.
But CP3 is a player.
Nobody has ever had an answer for Kobe for the last 5 or 6 years.
I don't think the Lakers have an answer for West or Paul. That doesn't mean that you win. You just have to exploit the other matchups.
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The lakers have good defence.
Like any team they can get sloppy. The Laker's are good.
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I think the Lakers offense is their strong point.
Their pretty weak down low which can get exploited by pretty much any team still playing in the West. As good as Gasol is on the offense, he get's manhandled by the better power forwards and centers. The Lakers will be looking to outscore the other teams.
It's pretty scary to think how good they will be next year if Bynum returns healthy and hungry like he was this year. That would help to sure up their biggest weakness.
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Historically speaking, Bonzi Wells has always matched up well with Kobe. Kobe will score his 25 against Bonzi, but will have to work for it. CP has made EVERYONE on that team better. He creates space by drawing double teams, and runs the screen roll as good as any 1. Chandler, West and Peja are all better because of him.
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AK 47 seems to make Kobe work pretty hard. He is the only guy I have ever seen block two of Kobes fade away jumpers back to back.
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To me it's unbelievable that a guy who is only 6ft is so dominant.
D. Wade is only 6"3 as well, but those three inches make a lot of difference.
I don't think Paul is underrated though, isn't he a MVP fav?
I can see the lakers winning it this year. Gasol isn't as good as shaq in his prime, but he might be good enough to assist kobe to the title.
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I'm more concerned about the Spurs than the Hornets. Gasol would have trouble with Duncan. Chandler doesn't score much. Peja is completely one dimensional and isn't a very good defender. The Spurs have a better bench than the Hornets.
Regarding defending Kobe, the only player I've ever seen give Kobe trouble consistently was Prince in the NBA Finals. He has torched Bowen and Raja Bell, both first team all NBA defense. I have seen him dunk on Duncan and David Robinson. I've seen him shoot jumpers over Yao Ming. He is the best offensive player I've ever seen. I can't think of another player with his offensive versatility. He's just impossible to guard one-on-one.
I've always maintained that all Kobe needed was another all star caliber player to start winning championships. That pretty much happened with Bynum's enormous improvement and then with the trade for Gasol.
I think we have a shot this year, but I'm even more excited about next season with Bynum and Ariza back.
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An offensive player always has the advantage over the defense. Kobe will torch anybody one on one no matter who it is.
The same can be said for Lebron, T-mac, Wade, Melo, Howard, etc.
Kobe can do it so many ways though and he gets the MJ calls for him. That meaning you can barely look at him and the whistle will blow sending him to the line.
Congrats to him on winning the MVP. It was deserved.
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Congrats to him on winning the MVP. It was deserved.
Long-deserved
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Damn my Jazz fell apart in the first half, played well in the second. Boozer with 7 turnovers is not acceptable, Im starting to think that he is a regular season player, not the first time he played like shit in the playoffs. We will see in game 2.
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Damn my Jazz fell apart in the first half, played well in the second. Boozer with 7 turnovers is not acceptable, Im starting to think that he is a regular season player, not the first time he played like shit in the playoffs. We will see in game 2.
They had about four different guys try to guard Kobe. After the end of the first quarter Sloan said they need to have the whole team guard him. :)
They need to send about three guys at him and make the other four guys beat them.
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Long-deserved
That's why he is getting it. Chris Paul is the clear MVP this year, IMO. I don't mind that Kobe is going to win it, but it's more for all the things he has done over his career. How can't they give him an MVP considering how good he is? Kobe should have won it in the past, and they are going to give it to him this year.
I'm not saying the guy is not the best player in the NBA, he is. But that's not what the MVP is all about. Kobe is the closest thing to MJ there is, but no one was more valuable to his team than Chris Paul. Kobe is crazy good, and he gets all the calls to. What did he go to the line 27 times the other night. That's just ludicrous!
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Players of Kobe's magnitude earn those calls by the 'star system' in the NBA.
Jordan got the same treatment after 6 years in the league.
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That's why he is getting it. Chris Paul is the clear MVP this year, IMO. I don't mind that Kobe is going to win it, but it's more for all the things he has done over his career. How can't they give him an MVP considering how good he is? Kobe should have won it in the past, and they are going to give it to him this year.
I'm not saying the guy is not the best player in the NBA, he is. But that's not what the MVP is all about. Kobe is the closest thing to MJ there is, but no one was more valuable to his team than Chris Paul. Kobe is crazy good, and he gets all the calls to. What did he go to the line 27 times the other night. That's just ludicrous!
He should be at the line about 20 times every game. The refs don't give him quite a few calls, which is why he led the league in technicals this year.
But the award is for the best player in the league, not the player most valuable to their team. Kobe was stellar all season. He was second in the league in scoring and will be first team all NBA defense again. Who does that?
Also, Bynum missed a substantial part of the season and Gasol missed a number of games after joining the team the second half of the season and the Lakers still finished with the best record in the toughest conference in years.
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That's why he is getting it. Chris Paul is the clear MVP this year, IMO. I don't mind that Kobe is going to win it, but it's more for all the things he has done over his career. How can't they give him an MVP considering how good he is? Kobe should have won it in the past, and they are going to give it to him this year.
I'm not saying the guy is not the best player in the NBA, he is. But that's not what the MVP is all about. Kobe is the closest thing to MJ there is, but no one was more valuable to his team than Chris Paul. Kobe is crazy good, and he gets all the calls to. What did he go to the line 27 times the other night. That's just ludicrous!
Chris Paul has made David West better, Tyson Chandler better, and has rejunated Peja, who is only good at running toward the spot and awaiting the pass for an open jumper. Kobe's game, at times, does not make others around him better. He is by far the best talent in the league. He can lockdown any player and make them a non factor, but too often, the Lakers are not cutting toward the hole when Kobe draws the double and triple teams, and he can't make that ONE additional pass for an open jumper or lay up.
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Chris Paul has made David West better, Tyson Chandler better, and has rejunated Peja, who is only good at running toward the spot and awaiting the pass for an open jumper. Kobe's game, at times, does not make others around him better. He is by far the best talent in the league. He can lockdown any player and make them a non factor, but too often, the Lakers are not cutting toward the hole when Kobe draws the double and triple teams, and he can't make that ONE additional pass for an open jumper or lay up.
I agree. Kobe is cleary the most talented player in the NBA. His jumper and defensive skills are much better than Lebrons IMO, but I think Paul is this year's MVP.
That said, I understand why Kobe is going to win it.
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there's a simple way to defend paul
abuse his ass in the paint...
since the nba has transitioned to a no hand check, princess game, sadly this most likley will not be seen
::)
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there's a simple way to defend paul
abuse his ass in the paint...
since the nba has transitioned to a no hand check, princess game, sadly this most likley will not be seen
::)
Thats why Im hoping my Jazz can get pass the lakers, we seem to match up well with the hornets. Deron is definetly stronger than Paul and take him down low. That being said I don't know if we get pass the Lake Show. :-\
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He should be at the line about 20 times every game. The refs don't give him quite a few calls, which is why he led the league in technicals this year.
I agree, Kobe does not get the calls warranted by his stature. He is almost the Anti-Jordan in this respect. For example: Game 4 2002 Western Conference finals against the Kings, remember the famous Horry three point miracle winning shot with 11 seconds left? Set up because Kobe went up for a layup and was clearly hacked with no call. Jordan would have gotten the call for sure. (Now I'm not complaining because that would have meant overtime instead of a win on the way to a third straight championship!).
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You guys have to be kidding me that Kobe doesn't get enough calls his way. Lebron should probably get to the line 30 times a game then.
Being out of control moving towards the basket every other play shouldn't get you many calls no matter who you are. I think there should be more no-calls in the NBA if anything. Defenses can't even hand check anymore yet Kobe and Manu are allowed to carry the ball like they are playing football.
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You guys have to be kidding me that Kobe doesn't get enough calls his way. Lebron should probably get to the line 30 times a game then.
Being out of control moving towards the basket every other play shouldn't get you many calls no matter who you are. I think there should be more no-calls in the NBA if anything. Defenses can't even hand check anymore yet Kobe and Manu are allowed to carry the ball like they are playing football.
You're in denial pal, Kobe is not "out of control" LeBroin is the one that carries the ball like Walter Payton. Go back to the dark ages, Kobe hater, he is the hands down MVP.
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You're in denial pal, Kobe is not "out of control" LeBroin is the one that carries the ball like Walter Payton. Go back to the dark ages, Kobe hater, he is the hands down MVP.
I think he deserves the MVP. I like Jordan too but you have to have to be crazy to think that they don't get more calls than of the other "Superstars"
Just because you are a myopic Laker fan doesn't dispute this fact.
It's funny how the Laker fans booed Kobe the first game this season and now they are riding his nuts :-\
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I think he deserves the MVP. I like Jordan too but you have to have to be crazy to think that they don't get more calls than of the other "Superstars"
Just because you are a myopic Laker fan doesn't dispute this fact.
It's funny how the Laker fans booed Kobe the first game this season and now they are riding his nuts :-\
Being in LA, I see many more Laker games than the national audience. Sorry, IMO, Kobe does not get the calls due his status. The evidence is in the "frustration technicals" Kobe gets called for. I don't know if its is the Rape case, the Shaq controversy, the refs do not like him, it is very well known among those in the know,
You say "Myopic," I say "Observant."
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Being in LA, I see many more Laker games than the national audience. Sorry, IMO, Kobe does not get the calls due his status. The evidence is in the "frustration technicals" Kobe gets called for. I don't know if its is the Rape case, the Shaq controversy, the refs do not like him, it is very well known among those in the know,
You say "Myopic," I say "Observant."
Being a Laker fan makes you biased and I also live in SoCal so I see them all the time. I blame the refs, not Kobe.
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Being a Laker fan makes you biased and I also live in SoCal so I see them all the time. I blame the refs, not Kobe.
Me too, I blame the refs not Kobe. I have eyes, I see the obvious. Name the last MVP that led the league in technicals. Having trouble finding one? That's because it has never happened. It was almost impossible for Jordan to get a technical, the refs were too busy swooning over him...
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Being in LA, I see many more Laker games than the national audience. Sorry, IMO, Kobe does not get the calls due his status. The evidence is in the "frustration technicals" Kobe gets called for. I don't know if its is the Rape case, the Shaq controversy, the refs do not like him, it is very well known among those in the know,
You say "Myopic," I say "Observant."
I agree. I don't live in LA, but I watch almost every televised Laker game. Kobe takes a lot of punishment. He is rarely out of control when going to the basket.
I probably talk to the refs as much as he does during games. :)
Shaq was the same way. He took a lot of punishment when he was with the Lakers because he was so big. He dished out a lot of punishment too.
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I agree. I don't live in LA, but I watch almost every televised Laker game. Kobe takes a lot of punishment. He is rarely out of control when going to the basket.
I probably talk to the refs as much as he does during games. :)
Shaq was the same way. He took a lot of punishment when he was with the Lakers because he was so big. He dished out a lot of punishment too.
Honestly I think the "star" calls is blown way out of proportion, it just doesn't happen like the casual fan thinks. Im not saying it doesn't happen (bryon russel push off) but it is not as much as people think. My favorite team is the rockets followed by the jazz. I get the Nba package and watch all of their games plus usually like the game of the week for other teams. I dont think anyone gets hacked in the league more than Yao, booze takes alot of punishment too with no calls, and Im sure all of you who watch your favorite team see the same thing with your players.
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Honestly I think the "star" calls is blown way out of proportion, it just doesn't happen like the casual fan thinks. Im not saying it doesn't happen (bryon russel push off) but it is not as much as people think. My favorite team is the rockets followed by the jazz. I get the Nba package and watch all of their games plus usually like the game of the week for other teams. I dont think anyone gets hacked in the league more than Yao, booze takes alot of punishment too with no calls, and Im sure all of you who watch your favorite team see the same thing with your players.
I agree that we all see what we want to see. I will admit that.
Complaining about the refs is useless because they are just so inconsistent with their calls.
That's what kills me.
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I agree. Seems like no player ever commits a foul. They always cry when the ref blows the whistle.
I have to say that since Kobe got his 15th technical, he has kept his mouth shut (out of necessity in the regular season) and he just looks like a better player because of it. I wish they would all just shut up and play.
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I agree. Seems like no player ever commits a foul. They always cry when the ref blows the whistle.
I have to say that since Kobe got his 15th technical, he has kept his mouth shut (out of necessity in the regular season) and he just looks like a better player because of it. I wish they would all just shut up and play.
Kobe gets called like a regular player. I have no problem with that other than other superstars do not get called like regular players. Call them all the same, but if not, give the Greatest Basketball Player on the Planet his due.
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I don't think Paul is underrated though, isn't he a MVP fav?
He was 2nd in the voting, but the Hornets were hardly ever on (national) TV this season, which is why so few fans really knew what he was bringing to the table.
For my part, I saw New Orleans at the top of the West standings almost the entire season and couldn't figure out how they'd won so many games, because I never got to see them play.
He may be a wannabe thug at times, but that Paul kid can play.
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Kobe gets called like a regular player. I have no problem with that other than other superstars do not get called like regular players. Call them all the same, but if not, give the Greatest Basketball Player on the Planet his due.
true! though jordan was light years ahead in his day, the refs loved him, there kids loved him too
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there's a simple way to defend paul
abuse his ass in the paint...
since the nba has transitioned to a no hand check, princess game, sadly this most likley will not be seen
::)
Exactly...which is what allows Tony Parker to 'dominate' ::) in the paint. Whatever.
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He may be a wannabe thug at times, but that Paul kid can play.
Wannabe thug ???
Seems like a pretty good guy to me.
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Wannabe thug ???
Seems like a pretty good guy to me.
Great player. The "Supercuts" hairdo has got to go, however!
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Wannabe thug ???
Seems like a pretty good guy to me.
He's a little dirty sometimes.
He once popped a guy in the nuts with his hand because the other guy kept burning him.
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He's a little dirty sometimes.
He once popped a guy in the nuts with his hand because the other guy kept burning him.
I remember that in college.
I don't think that makes him a thug though.
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im a diehard spurs fan and i like parker but chris paul is BY FAR the best pg in the nba, FAR better than nash, on eof the best players ive seen in a long time period. extremely consistent as well.
that said, everyone counting out the spurs already? ;)