Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Misc Too Board => Getbig Comments Suggestions Complaints Board => Topic started by: danielson on February 14, 2009, 06:37:59 AM
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Disgusted made a fake supplement called "magic powder" then had that fat fuck Kamali promote it on here(why would anyone wants to look like him anyway?) for months, now he is finally selling it and promoting it on the positive board. Rons rules are no spamming, but some motherless cokksukkers think they are above the rules, like Chris Mason, Jag and now Disgusted. Should this filthy muthafucker be banned for life for abusing Rons rules? Do you guys think this site should just be one big place for people to sell their products?
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=263307.0
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I say it's up to the forum mods and ultimately up to Ron. Ron posted in that thread so he must be ok with it. It's a bodybuilding product in a bodybuilding forum on getbig. maybe that's why he gave it a pass. You posted this in complaints, if Ron had an issue, he would have addressed it. If you want a different forum owner, open your own board.
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I got a sample yesterday ,I didn't get pump at all >:(
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Disgusted made a fake supplement called "magic powder" then had that fat fuck Kamali promote it on here(why would anyone wants to look like him anyway?) for months, now he is finally selling it and promoting it on the positive board. Rons rules are no spamming, but some motherless cokksukkers think they are above the rules, like Chris Mason, Jag and now Disgusted. Should this filthy muthafucker be banned for life for abusing Rons rules? Do you guys think this site should just be one big place for people to sell their products?
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=263307.0
Quality product right there ...... ::)
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I say it's up to the forum mods and ultimately up to Ron. Ron posted in that thread so he must be ok with it. It's a bodybuilding product in a bodybuilding forum on getbig. maybe that's why he gave it a pass. You posted this in complaints, if Ron had an issue, he would have addressed it. If you want a different forum owner, open your own board.
I don't want a different forum owner, I do want a different political board moderator though. So you are saying it is ok for people to use this site to sell their products? If the mods let this asshole keep this up this site will be like an MD magazine in two months time. Is that what you want?
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Quality product right there ...... ::)
It is a placebo. I heard it from a certain "guru" who is well known in this circle. The powder is nothing more than sugar water. It's not like Disgusted is some doctor mixing shit in a lab and curing cancer in his spare time. He trains meatheads, that's it. Anyone who believes that he made the next big thing is an idiot.
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I don't want a different forum owner, I do want a different political board moderator though. So you are saying it is ok for people to use this site to sell their products? If the mods let this asshole keep this up this site will be like an MD magazine in two months time. Is that what you want?
nope, all I said is it's all up to forum mods and ultimately Ron... if he wants to stop magic powder he will. He runs the forum not you. If you want me gone, who gives a shit. Ron makes that call, not you.
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nope, all I said is it's all up to forum mods and ultimately Ron... if he wants to stop magic powder he will. He runs the forum not you. If you want me gone, who gives a shit. Ron makes that call, not you.
Actually you and I made a bet that if you got voted out you would leave and you lost in a landslide. You showed everyone that you are not a man of your word. Also I know it's up to the moderators. Why do you always have to be such a douche? The question is, "DO YOU THINK IT'S OK FOR DISGUSTED TO SPAM?" Can you answer now please?
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It is a placebo. I heard it from a certain "guru" who is well known in this circle. The powder is nothing more than sugar water. It's not like Disgusted is some doctor mixing shit in a lab and curing cancer in his spare time. He trains meatheads, that's it. Anyone who believes that he made the next big thing is an idiot.
bodybuilding is a placebo.
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Actually you and I made a bet that if you got voted out you would leave and you lost in a landslide. You showed everyone that you are not a man of your word. Also I know it's up to the moderators. Why do you always have to be such a douche? The question is, "DO YOU THINK IT'S OK FOR DISGUSTED TO SPAM?" Can you answer now please?
how does that make you feel ;D
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bodybuilding is a placebo.
Is that why you don't partake in it? Or are you too busy blowing 240 online for 16 hours a day?
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how does that make you feel ;D
I am fine, you stupid coon. Now answer the question.
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danielson, why do you hate me so :D
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Is that why you don't partake in it? Or are you too busy blowing 240 online for 16 hours a day?
I've probably followed this SPORT way longer than you. but in a way it's true, isn't it a placebo? In some regards that's true.
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danielson, why do you hate me so :D
You take yourself and your race way too serious. If someone calls me a dumb Wop I laugh. When people call you a filthy N, you get upset. Makes no sense. Oh, and because you are a worthless pos and a leach on society.
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You take yourself and your race way too serious. If someone calls me a dumb Wop I laugh. When people call you a filthy N, you get upset. Makes no sense. Oh, and because you are a worthless pos and a leach on society.
Afro-South American Indians RULE muthafuka!!!
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Afro-South American Indians RULE muthfuka!!!
I have asked you many times and I will ask you again. Why not tell us a little about yourself and post a picture so we can put a name with a face? Also, do you think it's ok to spam the board?
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oh come on danielson, let's burry this shit... I miss you man... Let's make up honey.
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Disgusted made a fake supplement called "magic powder" then had that fat fuck Kamali promote it on here(why would anyone wants to look like him anyway?) for months, now he is finally selling it and promoting it on the positive board. Rons rules are no spamming, but some motherless cokksukkers think they are above the rules, like Chris Mason, Jag and now Disgusted. Should this filthy muthafucker be banned for life for abusing Rons rules? Do you guys think this site should just be one big place for people to sell their products?
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=263307.0
Sounds like someone is Disgusted
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I have asked you many times and I will ask you again. Why not tell us a little about yourself and post a picture so we can put a name with a face? Also, do you think it's ok to spam the board?
It's not ok to spam the board but it's up to Ron. He lets Jag post her product on certain forums and we had to express we wanted a no spam policy in political and explain why. So it's up to Ron and the forum mods.
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oh come on danielson, let's burry this shit... I miss you man... Let's make up honey.
Go fck yourself. This thread is serious business and we don't need some idiot ruining it.
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Go fck yourself. This thread is serious business and we don't need some idiot ruining it.
seroius business :D Ok honey.
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fucking hell, why get worked up about this?
just ignore it and move on.
ta ta
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It's not ok to spam the board but it's up to Ron. He lets Jag post her product on certain forums and we had to express we wanted a no spam policy in political and explain why. So it's up to Ron and the forum mods.
Obviously I have explored the right avenues and I am trying to get the people here to let Ron know we don't want to read advertisements on Getbig.
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Obviously I have explored the right avenues and I am trying to get the people here to let Ron know we don't want to read advertisements on Getbig.
how's that working out for ya :D
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fucking hell, why get worked up about this?
just ignore it and move on.
ta ta
I can't ignore it. Some people can ignore it when a black moves in your neighborhood. They will say "Oh, it's just one house, don't worry about it". Next thing you know, you are living in a ghetto.
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how's that working out for ya :D
You think this is over? I made sure you got destroyed in the vote for your mod spot. You don't think I can get people to support a non spam rule? You really are an idiot.
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hahaha I'm glad you found something new to obsess over. I was getting sick of the "At Large Nutrition made me shit my pants" avatar! ;D
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I can't ignore it. Some people can ignore it when a black moves in your neighborhood. They will say "Oh, it's just one house, don't worry about it". Next thing you know, you are living in a ghetto.
lol... wow, for real serious business :D
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no spamming
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You think this is over? I made sure you got destroyed in the vote for your mod spot. You don't think I can get people to support a non spam rule? You really are an idiot.
there already is a no spam rule. Hope that helps ;)
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hahaha I'm glad you found something new to obsess over. I was getting sick of the "At Large Nutrition made me shit my pants" avatar! ;D
Why all the replies and no answers? Do you want this board to become one huge advertisement? Oh, and I have my eye on you too Rip. You need to stop letting that creepy Sioux spam his shit site. Don't think I didn't notice.
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there already is a no spam rule. Hope that helps ;)
You think the positive board mods should be replaced? They are not doing their jobs and making excuses for why they won't delete it. Chaos is cool though, he was told not to and didn't want to cause trouble. The rest of them need to go imo.
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hahaha I'm glad you found something new to obsess over. I was getting sick of the "At Large Nutrition made me shit my pants" avatar! ;D
Why all the replies and no answers? Do you want this board to become one huge advertisement? Oh, and I have my eye on you too Rip. You need to stop letting that creepy Sioux spam his shit site. Don't think I didn't notice.
;D
Danielson vs Rip = as entertaining and legendary as Megatron vs Optimus Prime 8)
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You think the positive board mods should be replaced? They are not doing their jobs and making excuses for why they won't delete it. Chaos is cool though, he was told not to and didn't want to cause trouble. The rest of them need to go imo.
no, I think it's up to the mods and Ron... If you go past the forum mods and ron, it just sounds whiny
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no, I think it's up to the mods and Ron... If you go past the forum mods and ron, it just sounds whiny
Some mods, like you for example, suck at their jobs.
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;D
Danielson vs Rip = as entertaining and legendary as Megatron vs Optimus Prime 8)
LOL!!!
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Some mods, like you for example, suck at their jobs.
I know, but I try hard :D
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What is this "magic powder" supposed to do?
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What is this "magic powder" supposed to do?
Depends on whether you take it orally or rectally
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Like I said on the positive board, I talked to flexington about it and he is ok with it because disgusted is someone who posts here regularly and a lot of people actually seem interested.
Yes it is probably a bs product that won't do shit for you but aren't most supplements? And yes none of us like Kamali he has a terrible physique but he doesn't need to be brought into this. We have other more important things on here to worry about.
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Depends on whether you take it orally or rectally
;D
But I would really be interested, yet too lazy to read the thread.
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best posts of the thread award goes to kiwiol
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I would be willing to try the product if there is a scientific study on body composition available.
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The magic powder stuff is kinda annoying
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I would be willing to try the product if there is a scientific study on body composition available.
lol... you mean like all the "scientific" studies listed in the advertisments for these type of products? Don't waste your time.
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lol... you mean like all the "scientific" studies listed in the advertisments for these type of products? Don't waste your time.
186.56893% of teh muszles gainz in less than 2 weeks brah !!!!!!!!!1111!!!1!!!!!!!
I was of course referring to serious independent scientific studies on body composition.
It's a deal breaker for me as it should be for everyone.
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I can't ignore it. Some people can ignore it when a black moves in your neighborhood. They will say "Oh, it's just one house, don't worry about it". Next thing you know, you are living in a ghetto.
Fucking hell now you put it in my terms I totally understand!
Go get em Danny Boy!
ta ta
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186.56893% of teh muszles gainz in less than 2 weeks brah !!!!!!!!!1111!!!1!!!!!!!
I was of course referring to serious independent scientific studies on body composition.
It's a deal breaker for me as it should be for everyone.
yea, but they don't ever do those for these products. They just make it sound like they did.
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I was of course referring to serious independent scientific studies on body composition.
Never fall for BS like that! Always do what I do - see if the supplement's ad has a bodybuilder studying it carefully while a scientist wearing a lab coat is standing right beside him staring at his glutes with a serious expression on his face. That tells you that
1) You can look like the pro if you take that product and
2) It's scientifically tested, cause the pic of the scientist wearing the lab coat is there for everyone to see.
Remember - think smart and it'll always pay off 8)
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Never fall for BS like that! Always do what I do - see if the supplement's ad has a bodybuilder studying it carefully while a scientist wearing a lab coat is standing right beside him staring at his glutes with a serious expression on his face. That tells you that
1) You can look like the pro if you take that product and
2) It's scientifically tested, cause the pic of the scientist wearing the lab coat is there for everyone to see.
Remember - think smart and it'll always pay off 8)
LOL!!!
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yea, but they don't ever do those for these products. They just make it sound like they did.
Say it ain't so ;D
Must be why I don't use any supplements then.
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Never fall for BS like that! Always do what I do - see if the supplement's ad has a bodybuilder studying it carefully while a scientist wearing a lab coat is standing right beside him staring at his glutes with a serious expression on his face. That tells you that
1) You can look like the pro if you take that product and
2) It's scientifically tested, cause the pic of the scientist wearing the lab coat is there for everyone to see.
Remember - think smart and it'll always pay off 8)
Wow, thanks brah, should I combine teh magic powder with teh gakic or will I gainz 2 fast?
Don't wanna get them ugly strech markz!
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Like I said on the positive board, I talked to flexington about it and he is ok with it because disgusted is someone who posts here regularly and a lot of people actually seem interested.
It doesn't matter if the dude posts here regularly. I post here 3 times as much as he does, does that give me the right to make threads asking if people want to pay for my services? Bluto posts here 10 times as much as that guy, does that give him special rights? Rules are rules and Disgusted is a pos who needs to be banned.
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serious business...
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serious business...
Scram Cooon.
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Oh brother, someone is taking getbig a little to seriously.
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Oh brother, someone is taking getbig a little to seriously.
It's his life, take it easy on him... We don't want to have a getbig suicide on our hands.
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It's his life, take it easy on him... We don't want to have a getbig suicide on our hands.
Yes, I am a defender of Getbig. It's people like me who make this site free of asshole spammers like Chris Mason. Perhaps you should thank me.
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Yes, I am a defender of Getbig. It's people like me who make this site free of asshole spammers like Chris Mason. Perhaps you should thank me.
Bigtime serious business... Pay attention people, danielson will save us.
You go hero...
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It's his life, take it easy on him...
Not at all. Danny is Ron's right hand man and Ron pays him in the high 7 figures for all the modding he does. It's only natural that he expresses concern when he sees unacceptable activity in Getbig.
You go Danny!
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Bigtime serious business... Pay attention people, danielson will save us.
You go hero...
Why is it important to delete people who call you a guy or whatnot on the politics board or to delete gross images, yet you are making fun of me for wanting a spam free board? Do you not delete things on a daily basis?
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Why is it important to delete people who call you a guy or whatnot on the politics board or to delete gross images, yet you are making fun of me for wanting a spam free board? Do you not delete things on a daily basis?
are you going to cry? I'll let up if this is busting you up that much.
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Why is it important to delete people who call you a guy or whatnot on the politics board or to delete gross images, yet you are making fun of me for wanting a spam free board? Do you not delete things on a daily basis?
He's an apologist hypocrite who has turned that board into his own little playground. My guess is that it's the only thing he has any control over in his life.
Everyone but blacks and Muslims are fair game on that board.
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He's an apologist hypocrite who has turned that board into his own little playground. My guess is that it's the only thing he has any control over in his life.
behead in the name of Islam!!!!
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He's an apologist hypocrite who has turned that board into his own little playground. My guess is that it's the only thing he has any control over in his life.
Everyone but blacks and Muslims are fair game on that board.
Yeah, I still don't see how me asking for a spam free board is any more serious than him getting upset about me calling him a filthy cooon on the politics board. He banned me once for telling him to mind his own business, but I am the serious one ::)
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hahaha classic ;D
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Yeah, I still don't see how me asking for a spam free board is any more serious than him getting upset about me calling him a filthy cooon on the politics board. He banned me once for telling him to mind his own business, but I am the serious one ::)
I'm a proud South American Indian Coo n... Why would I get upset about that?
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I'm a proud South American Indian Coo n... Why would I get upset about that?
Why do you delete things on the politics board then tell me that I am being serious about wanting a spam free board? Remember when you banned me for telling you to mind your own business? Yet you still get in my business every chance you get.
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Why do you delete things on the politics board then tell me that I am being serious about wanting a spam free board? Remember when you banned me for telling you to mind your own business? Yet you still get in my business every chance you get.
why do I delete things as mod? lol... wow, serious question... can't fathom why a mod would delete something that crosses the stated forum rules. That is strange! Ok, I confess, I only delete you, all the time... It's fun watching you flipout.
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why do I delete things as mod? lol... wow, serious question... can't fathom why a mod would delete something that crosses the stated forum rules. That is strange! Ok, I confess, I only delete you, all the time... It's fun watching you flipout.
Disgusted is breaking the forum rules. The mods won't delete it. I hate spam so I made this thread. Why is this hard for you to understand? Are you going to tell me again how you know more about the company I work for due to your intensive internet browsing ???
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behead in the name of Islam!!!!
Let's see how long this stays up before it's removed. Religion of peace, indeed. :)
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Isn't the rule that you must consult with Ron before spamming? Maybe they asked him if they could.
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It doesn't matter if the dude posts here regularly. I post here 3 times as much as he does, does that give me the right to make threads asking if people want to pay for my services? Bluto posts here 10 times as much as that guy, does that give him special rights? Rules are rules and Disgusted is a pos who needs to be banned.
I don't know whether to LMAO at you or shake my head in pity, do I'll so both. ;D Bottom line is that you are just pissed that you can't call me names on the positive board. It's one thread out of thousands so next time you get the urge to to click on it.... don't. ::)
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I don't know whether to LMAO at you or shake my head in pity, do I'll do both. ;D Bottom line is that you are just pissed that you can't call me names on the positive board. It's one thread out of thousands so next time you get the urge to to click on it.... don't. ::)
I have never called you a name on here, ever. In fact I used to think you were one of the cooler posters. But getting Kamali to talk about this product for months on end and then schilling it on here is out of line. Let me ask you this, do you want this board to become a place where people come to sell shit? I certainly don't.
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Not at all. Danny is Ron's right hand man and Ron pays him in the high 7 figures for all the modding he does. It's only natural that he expresses concern when he sees unacceptable activity in Getbig.
You go Danny!
::)
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Calm yourself down, cum cheeks. Jim's the man. He hasn't been overzealous promoting his supplement at all. There's what? One thread? ???
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I have never called you a name on here, ever. In fact I used to think you were one of the cooler posters. But getting Kamali to talk about this product for months on end and then schilling it on here is out of line. Let me ask you this, do you want this board to become a place where people come to sell shit? I certainly don't.
Then go PM Ron. I have said before that I don't care if anyone on here ever buys my product. Some people have expressed an interest in it and asked some questions about it. I have been on this board for years and have answered hundreds of PMs and questions to some of the few people on here that actually lift weights, what do you do other than insult people? Do you realize that you have sent over 30 pms to various mods on here in just one day obsessing about one thread ??!! Let it go bro before you have a break down over it.
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Then go PM Ron. I have said before that I don't care if anyone on here ever buys my product. Some people have expressed an interest in it and asked some questions about it. I have been on this board for years and have answered hundreds of PMs and questions to some of the few people on here that actually lift weights, what do you do other than insult people? Do you realize that you have sent over 30 pms to various mods on here in just one day obsessing about one thread ??!! Let it go bro before you have a break down over it.
I PMed Chaos and Ron, that's it. Flex PMed me about it. Now answer my question, do you want this place to welcome spammers?
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It doesn't matter if the dude posts here regularly. I post here 3 times as much as he does, does that give me the right to make threads asking if people want to pay for my services? Bluto posts here 10 times as much as that guy, does that give him special rights? Rules are rules and Disgusted is a pos who needs to be banned.
Dosn't "pos" stand for "peice of sh%t? I guess that would be considered name calling in some planetary systems.
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Calm yourself down, cum cheeks. Jim's the man. He hasn't been overzealous promoting his supplement at all. There's what? One thread? ???
One is one too many. What if we all made ONE thread trying to sell shit on here? If Ron himself comes on here and says Jim is above the rules I will shut up about it.
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I PMed Chaos and Ron, that's it. Flex PMed me about it. Now answer my question, do you want this place to welcome spammers?
Then why are you advertising my product in your avatar? ;D
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Dosn't "pos" stand for "peice of sh%t? I guess that would be considered name calling in some planetary systems.
Correct. I called you a name after you broke the rules. Not before. Just be a man and follow the rules like everyone else.
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Correct. I called you a name after you broke the rules. Not before. Just be a man and follow the rules like everyone else.
No :D
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No :D
Serious question. Why are you so much more important than everyone else? Ruining Kamalis physique notwithstanding.
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Serious question. Why are you so much more important than everyone else? Ruining Kamalis physique notwithstanding.
Because God hates you and loves me. :D Why are you spamming my product in your avatar? Oh and can you please make the font bigger? ;)
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Because God hates you and loves me. :D Why are you spamming my product in your avatar? Oh and can you please make the font bigger? ;)
You know this product is bullshit. Why are you trying to rip off my iron brothers? You tell people which drugs to take, you don't know shit about creating supplements. The economy is real bad right now Jim, please don't take advantage of the good folk here at Getbig.
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You know this product is bullshit. Why are you trying to rip off my iron brothers? You tell people which drugs to take, you don't know shit about creating supplements. The economy is real bad right now Jim, please don't take advantage of the good folk here at Getbig.
I think that you need to trade in your obsession with me for another one. Try this. :)
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::)
Sorry, I'll try not to be so serious next time :(
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I think that you need to trade in your obsession with me for another one. Try this. :)
jim why did you just delete my question about possible side effects of the magic powder on the pos board ?
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jim why did you just delete my question about possible side effects of the magic powder on the pos board ?
I am guessing sugar and water doesn't have too many harmful side effects. Might give you a cavity.
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jim why did you just delete my question about possible side effects of the magic powder on the pos board ?
I did no such thing, but if you have a question then repost it.
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I am guessing sugar and water doesn't have too many harmful side effects. Might give you a cavity.
it's an honest question i would assume if it is a legitimate supplement than there should be studies to provide said information
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it's an honest question i would assume if it is a legitimate supplement than there should be studies to provide said information
It's not legitimate though. He told Kamali to talk about it for months on end so he could sell it to the dopes on here. I know of a mod on the positive board that can't wait to ban Jim for this stunt and is just waiting to get the ok from Ron. What he is doing is disgraceful.
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This will NOT >:( give you cavities.
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It's not legitimate though. He told Kamali to talk about it for months on end so he could sell it to the dopes on here. I know of a mod on the positive board that can't wait to ban Jim for this stunt and is just waiting to get the ok from Ron. What he is doing is disgraceful.
i can see where you're coming from and i support you in your quest to protect innocent getbiggers
i just want to know if it's possible i could end up looking like a turd kamali in the proces
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This will NOT >:( give you cavities.
Nice ass, she needs to cut the tag though.
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Yes King Kamali sucks ass but Jim is a solid bro. It seems all of the interest from this product comes from the forum members here. I don't see Jim in the Nutrition section pimping this stuff left and right. Magic Powder could be Getbig's Ultimate Orange, could turn out to be a part of history.
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Nice ass, she needs to cut the tag though.
Hadn't noticed the tag until you mentioned it.
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Another Milos Sarcev in the making :D
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Disgusted made a fake supplement called "magic powder" then had that fat fuck Kamali promote it on here(why would anyone wants to look like him anyway?) for months, now he is finally selling it and promoting it on the positive board. Rons rules are no spamming, but some motherless cokksukkers think they are above the rules, like Chris Mason, Jag and now Disgusted. Should this filthy muthafucker be banned for life for abusing Rons rules? Do you guys think this site should just be one big place for people to sell their products?
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=263307.0
its annoying as hell---its pathetic to see that fat drugged out slob push this "magic powder" when he's a science experiment seething with steroids.
the only thing worse than supplement ads are the douches who come on the boards and push them, assuming we're idiots who dont know the truth about how to make "real" fast gains (juice)
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Danielson is an asshole spamming the board
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Danielson is an asshole spamming the board
oh god you are one of the worst trolls on here
your lust for middle-eastern men and nasser disgust me
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its annoying as hell---its pathetic to see that fat drugged out slob push this "magic powder" when he's a science experiment seething with steroids.
the only thing worse than supplement ads are the douches who come on the boards and push them, assuming we're idiots who dont know the truth about how to make "real" fast gains (juice)
I assure you that I DO NOT seeth. >:( I think. ???
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I assure you that I DO NOT seeth. >:( I think. ???
I have no problem with steroids or people who juice, just with supplement companies who promise D-boll gains from cheap chinese crap
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I have no problem with steroids or people who juice, just with supplement companies who promise D-boll gains from cheap chinese crap
and I'm supposed to give a crap about what you think?
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oh god you are one of the worst trolls on here
your lust for middle-eastern men and nasser disgust me
I not the troll around here. I am one of the few people who actually talk about bodybuilders while you make the troll accounts to attack people you suck up to on the main board ::)
Also you talk a lot about homosexuality but when I was shown your picture I thought you look like a sickly gay.
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and I'm supposed to give a crap about what you think?
Do you really text one of the positive board mods daily? That would explain why you are given special privileges.
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Can this magic powder be snorted ???
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Can this magic powder be snorted ???
Why not?
Let us know what kind of pumps you get from it.
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Why not?
Let us know what kind of pumps you get from it.
Do you think my nostrils will get jacked :o
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Do you think my nostrils will get jacked :o
HHHEEEEEEEEYYYYYUUUUUUGGGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :o
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and I'm supposed to give a crap about what you think?
haha I think I touched nerve
btw Im sure you're "magic powder" will change the name of the industry ::)
its probably just another crappy caffeine loaded NOS/creatine product with a few other shitty supplements thrown in to make it sound "cutting edge"
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HHHEEEEEEEEYYYYYUUUUUUGGGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :o
Hopefully it won't give me the drips ;)