Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => History - Stories - and Memories => Topic started by: wgtnmuscle1 on September 15, 2005, 11:21:33 PM
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does any one still follow mike's princeables
and do thy work
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I dont have the energy to get into it today but I do follow them to a point, and they work but not for everyone. I dont think 1 set to failure works for to many people but I do think train brief but intense to get results. I never lift for more than an hour before im out of the gym.
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I used Mentzer's approach for three years, pretty much to the letter. I went from ~160 pounds at age 33 to ~190 pounds. I was happy with the results but I got tired of the nervous system fatigue. I have now switched to 2 sets to "almost failure" and it is easier to stay with it.
I think one of the most important aspects of this (and related) training protocols is the increased rest between workouts. I used 3x and 2x per week muscle group training in the past, and experienced little or no muscle gain. When I went to 7-10 days rest, I experienced great improvement.
I also changed my diet to 2 protein shakes per day. That has, I believe, had the greatest single effect. An interesting by product is I get colds and minor illnesses a lot less frequently.
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Mentzer's trainign philosophy is the Nautilus training philosophy, and the one set to failure is total and complete bullshit. If it worked you would have everyone doing it. People are pragmatic-they use what works.
One set to failure has NEVER worked and the only reason it became popular is b/c Arthur Jones made pie in the sky statements that you could get big and buffed by training only 30 minutes a day-3 times a week. Only one problem, Jones could never back up his wild claims with studies-and that is all they were-wild claims b/c his BS did not work.
Now, I think the Dorian Yates modified version of Mentzer training is a great idea-6-8 total sets to failure, or almost failure. That is a whole different animal though from one set to failure.
The recovery period, in my opinion, is the most important part of being a BBer after the actual trainig.
I used 3x and 2x per week muscle group training in the past, and experienced little or no muscle gain. When I went to 7-10 days rest, I experienced great improvement.
I agree that at least a weeks rest between workouts for all body parts is needed-this includes calves and ab's.
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Wow, more top gems of wisdome from our own 619.
1 set per body part does not work . . . who'd a thought???
Dorian's 6 to 8 sets is a great idea . . . what gave that away, 6 Sandows?
And at last, bodyparts need a week of rest . . . tell that to Doggcrap trainers.
MORE DOG SHIT FOR DIAMONDS INSIGHT FROM OUR OLDSKOOL GURU.
Big Ron Abston
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Here we go again. A bunch of 90 pound weaklings sitting at their computers trying to post slams against Mike Mentzer while wiping the sand from their eyes.
Bottom line is different approaches work for different people. Look at how good Mentzer looked- it worked for him and works for some of us.
I think the phrase "shut up and train" applies to many that post bullsh*& here.
Mike
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Here we go again. A bunch of 90 pound weaklings sitting at their computers trying to post slams against Mike Mentzer while wiping the sand from their eyes.
Bottom line is different approaches work for different people. Look at how good Mentzer looked- it worked for him and works for some of us.
I think the phrase "shut up and train" applies to many that post bullsh*& here.
Mike
Actually it didn't work for Mike, he was a lair about HIT.
Max_Rep who trained woth both Ray and Mike verified that. Mike lied about getting into shape with the one set to failure BS.
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Actually it didn't work for Mike, he was a lair about HIT.
Max_Rep who trained woth both Ray and Mike verified that. Mike lied about getting into shape with the one set to failure BS.
Sorry 619- I stand corrected and I respect your input.
I have just read over and over on this board, negative comments on Mike Mentzer. I guess all I can really comment on is that in his prime, Mike was top notch and I think he deserves a level of respect on this board for that.
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Sorry 619- I stand corrected and I respect your input.
I have just read over and over on this board, negative comments on Mike Mentzer. I guess all I can really comment on is that in his prime, Mike was top notch and I think he deserves a level of respect on this board for that.
I think MM had a great physique. The shots of him on Muscle Rock in the Santa Monica mountains are great. Huge with a small waist. I think most people are in MM corner in that he was a top BBer-no doubt about it.
Im not knocking MM at all-but I do disagree with the Nautilus training philosophy-and a lot of that has to do with both Arthur Jones and MM and the statements they make about HIT being the best way to train.
My training philosophy is simple-do what works for you. If HIT works for you stick with it.
I would say I use a modified HIT system-along the lines of Dorian Yates. It works for me.
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I think MM had a great physique. The shots of him on Muscle Rock in the Santa Monica mountains are great. Huge with a small waist. I think most people are in MM corner in that he was a top BBer-no doubt about it.
Im not knocking MM at all-but I do disagree with the Nautilus training philosophy-and a lot of that has to do with both Arthur Jones and MM and the statements they make about HIT being the best way to train.
My training philosophy is simple-do what works for you. If HIT works for you stick with it.
Gotcha 619- thanks for the explanation. LIke I said- I respect ya man. Thanks.
I would say I use a modified HIT system-along the lines of Dorian Yates. It works for me.
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Actually it didn't work for Mike, he was a lair about HIT.
Max_Rep who trained woth both Ray and Mike verified that. Mike lied about getting into shape with the one set to failure BS.
So according to Max_rep how did he train??? I have a copy of his suppossed program from the 70's which I can post if anyone is interested. It was largelt giant/super sets with each bodypart worked twice a week.
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So according to Max_rep how did he train??? I have a copy of his suppossed program from the 70's which I can post if anyone is interested. It was largelt giant/super sets with each bodypart worked twice a week.
If I remember it correctly, it was something like this:
Mentzer would do maybe 2-3 sets of a certain excersise, eg barbell curls, fairly heavy. Then he would do one final set.
After they were done, I think Mentzer would only count the final set as a working set. The other sets were only warm ups or something like that.
But you need to remember that Mentzer didn't fully develop his extreme ideas of training until he himself QUIT. It was only in the end of the 80's/ beginning of the 90's, he really started to get really wild.
My impression is that Mentzer was very influenced by philosophical reason. Herein lies a big explanation as to why he got stuck when he tried to develop a training protocol. From what I gather, he was obsessed with applying the perfect logic reasoning to training. It left no room for science.
If you read Heavy Duty 2, there's a routine called The Consolidation Routine, which consists of the following:
Workout A
One set Squats
One set Close-grip, Palms-Up Pulldowns
rest 5-7 days
Workout B
One set Regular Deadlifts
One set Dips
rest 5-7 days
Repeat
Mentzer never used this routine himself during his competitive days. Or anything resembling it, I guess.
I feel truly sorry for all those who still are buying into the preachings of Mike Mentzer, may he RIP.
He chose to ignore most of the excersise research available. If he had been using his "logical reasoning", he would've seen the obvious, that if the muscle needs shorter time to recover than the CNS, then you should avoid making the CNS having to recover fully after every workout.
YIP
Zack
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Here is the routine from the 70's he supposedly used:
Monday and Thursday
Chest:
Pec-Deck (to failure)
Incline Barbell Press
(forced reps)
Cable or Dumbbell Fly
4 cycles with no pause between movements
Triceps:
Triceps Extension (Nautilus)
Weighted Dip
3 cycles of 8 reps to failure with no rest between movements (rest between cycles)
Thighs:
Heavy Leg Extension 1 x 10 reps
Leg Press 1 x 10 reps
Parallel Squat 1 x 10 reps
Leg Curl 1 x 10 reps
Sometimes the above exercises are performed in superset style. He always uses maximum poundages.
Tuesday and Friday
Back:
Pullover (Nautilus)
Close-Grip Chin (underhand)
2 cycles of superset
Long Cable Pull 2 x 8 reps
One Arm Dumbbell Row 2 x 8 reps
Deltoids:
Lateral Raise (Nautilus)
Press Behind Neck (Nautilus)
2 cycles of superset
Biceps:
Preacher Bench Curl
Barbell Curl
superset above for 3 cycles (I have done this, it is awesome)
Concentration Dumbbell Curl
Calves:
Toe Raise (calf machine)
Toe Raise (leg press)
1 set each
Abs:
Leg Raise (chinning bar)
Crunch (machine)
3 supersets until he feels a burn
I have taken the above information from George Snyder and Rick Wayne’s Posedown.
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Mentzer took what Arthur Jones taught him and applied it to himself. Heavy Duty is Mentzer's baby and HIT is AJ's. They are actually very different. Essentially, all HIT is, is doing the least amount of work possible to create overload for the entire body in the shortest period of time. I'll be honest, the ONE AND ONLY reason people think HIT is bs and the whole one set to failure thing is bs, is because they are not training anywhere in the realm of the intensity that AJ used with himself and his bodybuilders.
I have mentored with Platz, and spoken with a lot of the old timers from AJ's day and they all, to be honest, trained with an intensity that has yet to be duplicated by a pro or even a major amateur in the last decade, imo. Before I started with Platz, I was pretty much always the hardest training person in whatever gym I went to. Then I went and did one set of curls with Tom and if I didn't know better, I would have thought I was risking injury. The same when he was showing me how to squat. Tom was never a proponent of HIT but he definitely wasn't a volume guy, I am just using him as an example.
Kent Keuhn, though, Arnold's old roomie and training partner, was a guy I worked with and personally spoke to about his sessions with Arthur Jones. He said and I quote "I'd do one set of curls and AJ would push me until I would pass out and my spotter would have to push me back."
The first time I actually did a HIT session with the intensity of a real Hitter, I realized that one set to negative failure is exactly what I need to stimulate growth. You may be different, but I doubt there are that many people out there who need more than 1 set to complete momentary negative IIB failure.
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Swedish Viking-I hate to break the news to you-but you are full of shit.
Arthur Jones was full of shit too. 95+% of the BS he spouted was just that-BS. He would make wild and unfounded claims about his training philosphy that had no factual basis at all-I guess if he thought he would say it enough, in magazine articles and books, that would somehow make it true. Sorry-the world does not work that way. Jones never published a single scientific study-let alone a study that indicasted his one set to failure works. Casey Viator-Jones main test guinnea pig and a gentic freak long before he met Jones-made no substantial improvements using the Nautilus training system.
Nauitilus training was a gimmeck to sell Jones Nautilius equipment, his training books and all the other BS he promoted. If it worked it would have withstood the test of time and prospered. Well, has it? NO! Today almost NO gyms use Nautilus equipment, no trainers promote Nautilus training methods and the books are long gone. It was all BS. A fad. That is how you can tell if something is the real deal or not-if it is real it will stick around.
As for the old timer guys training "with an intensity that has yet to be duplicated by a pro or even a major amateur in the last decade, imo" you have no idea what the hell you are talking about, unless you have trained with all the old timers (which you said you have not) and trained with all the current champs (again, which you have not).
If you think that HIT or Nautilus training works for you-great! But don't come on a BBing board with people who have trained for decades and start telling them what system works best-OK. You are not the PhD of training here, and never will be.
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I don't know anything about Arthur Jones except knowing who he is. But I have to disagree with the Nautilus nit in gyms and not doing to well. Last year they close to 1/2 billion dollars in sales. They bought out and now own Bowflex, Schwinn and Staitmater. I am pretty sure you don't buy out pretty succesful companies unless you are doing pretty good. Nautilus is in I think almost every gym here in Hawaii and definitely in most of the Hotel gyms here. Sheraton here is exclusively Nautilus and bought as is other hotels. Some of their equipment is pretty good actually. Nothing like the old Nautilus stuff. The condo I had in honolulu had exclusive Nautilus equipment in their 5,000 sq., ft gym. There are many other allot better companies but Nautilus is defintiely in the top ten if not 8. All I can say about Arthur Jones is that he has a great last name. And Winn Paris well what can I say about Win.
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Today almost NO gyms use Nautilus equipment, no trainers promote Nautilus training methods and the books are long gone. It was all BS. A fad. That is how you can tell if something is the real deal or not-if it is real it will stick around.
Actually there's plenty of gyms with Nautilus equipment and there's nothing wrong with it, they've got some good machines. How many trainers promote HIT, HST, DC, German Volume Training etc ? Not many, so with your reasoning it's nothing since it's not being promoted and used by everyone nationwide.
You are not the PhD of training here, and never will be.
And you are? Are you saying that one set, of let's say 20 reps of squats will not make someone bigger and stronger? Or that 1 set of curls will not be enough for biceps, then how many sets are needed? Some claim 0 sets are needed, that's even less than 1, what's your take on that?
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Swedish Viking-I hate to break the news to you-but you are full of shit.
Arthur Jones was full of shit too. 95+% of the BS he spouted was just that-BS. He would make wild and unfounded claims about his training philosphy that had no factual basis at all-I guess if he thought he would say it enough, in magazine articles and books, that would somehow make it true. Sorry-the world does not work that way. Jones never published a single scientific study-let alone a study that indicasted his one set to failure works. Casey Viator-Jones main test guinnea pig and a gentic freak long before he met Jones-made no substantial improvements using the Nautilus training system.
Nauitilus training was a gimmeck to sell Jones Nautilius equipment, his training books and all the other BS he promoted. If it worked it would have withstood the test of time and prospered. Well, has it? NO! Today almost NO gyms use Nautilus equipment, no trainers promote Nautilus training methods and the books are long gone. It was all BS. A fad. That is how you can tell if something is the real deal or not-if it is real it will stick around.
As for the old timer guys training "with an intensity that has yet to be duplicated by a pro or even a major amateur in the last decade, imo" you have no idea what the hell you are talking about, unless you have trained with all the old timers (which you said you have not) and trained with all the current champs (again, which you have not).
If you think that HIT or Nautilus training works for you-great! But don't come on a BBing board with people who have trained for decades and start telling them what system works best-OK. You are not the PhD of training here, and never will be.
What an incredible over reaction. Arthur Jones has held more massive conferences and published more studies at major universities and in medical journals than almost anyone in the fitness field. The can be found almost anywhere. In addition to that, when he sold Nautilus, he started his new line, Med Ex, which is used in countless hospitals and physical therapy studios around the world, and are sued along with many of his training principles. The is common, well known, documented info. And in addition to that many professional football teams still use HIT training and will continue to do so, as their strength coaches further publicize their results(many of which already have been). I can provide names and sources if you'd like.
I simply said that HIT is what works best for myself(go ahead and check) and that I think it would work best for most everyone as well, assuming their workouts were done in a Jonesian fashion rather than their own concotion or a Mentzer like one-not to say you shouldn't always adapt your program to yourself, really just that AJ's intensity was far and above anything that I have ever seen anyone duplicate-including current and past pros.
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I have no idea where in the world you got the notion that "Arthur Jones has held more massive conferences and published more studies at major universities and in medical journals than almost anyone in the fitness field", that is absolutely ridicules. Jones has never published a SINGLE scientific paper in a SINGLE scientific journal. Never. Ever. Please let me know of one article- since you claim this.
As far as the HIT/Nautilus training philosophy being used today by pro sports teams, I have not called every single strength coach for every single pro sports team here in the US-so I can't tell you what system they are using. Neither could you. But I do know a few strength and conditions coaches (for the Rams and San Diego State) and they do not use the Nautilus system (one set to failure 3x/week) or anything close to it.
I will say it again, Arthur Jones made WILD and UNFOUNDED claims about his training philosophy that had no basis in fact (as dd M Mentzer). He did this as a gimmick to sell his Nautilus equipment. Nautilus equipment is almost gone from the face of the earth today. That tells you if his bogus claims were the real deal or not.
I will give you two examples of Jones bullshit just off the top of my head;
1- The human skeletal muscle atrophies after 48 hours- so you must workout at least once every 48 hours of lose muscle mass (hence the 1 set to failure 3x/week). It has been scientifically PROVEN skeletal muscle does not show signs of atrophy for 21-30 days. No one today trains a bodypart 3x/week. The majority of BBer's train each bodypart once a week.
2- Do not make faces when training heavy- b/c this takes away muscle intensity. Holy shit-have you EVER heard something so stupid in your entire life. He actually said that! Try doing a 600# squat-or a 500# bench press with a straight face! That is one of the stupidest/dumbest things I have ever heard in my life.
These are just TWO of the hundreds of bogus/false/unfounded/snake oil claims Jones has made regarding his training philosophy-and it does not work. That is why today you no longer see Nautilus in any gyms, they are basically history.
Don't get me wrong though-the Nautilus pullover is one of the marvels of modern gym equipment-so is the double chest machine. But the equipment Jones invented does not make Jones any kind of training expert- by any means. He does not even have a college degree.
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I have no idea where in the world you got the notion that "Arthur Jones has held more massive conferences and published more studies at major universities and in medical journals than almost anyone in the fitness field", that is absolutely ridicules. Jones has never published a SINGLE scientific paper in a SINGLE scientific journal. Never. Ever. Please let me know of one article- since you claim this.
As far as the HIT/Nautilus training philosophy being used today by pro sports teams, I have not called every single strength coach for every single pro sports team here in the US-so I can't tell you what system they are using. Neither could you. But I do know a few strength and conditions coaches (for the Rams and San Diego State) and they do not use the Nautilus system (one set to failure 3x/week) or anything close to it.
I will say it again, Arthur Jones made WILD and UNFOUNDED claims about his training philosophy that had no basis in fact (as dd M Mentzer). He did this as a gimmick to sell his Nautilus equipment. Nautilus equipment is almost gone from the face of the earth today. That tells you if his bogus claims were the real deal or not.
I will give you two examples of Jones bullshit just off the top of my head;
1- The human skeletal muscle atrophies after 48 hours- so you must workout at least once every 48 hours of lose muscle mass (hence the 1 set to failure 3x/week). It has been scientifically PROVEN skeletal muscle does not show signs of atrophy for 21-30 days. No one today trains a bodypart 3x/week. The majority of BBer's train each bodypart once a week.
2- Do not make faces when training heavy- b/c this takes away muscle intensity. Holy shit-have you EVER heard something so stupid in your entire life. He actually said that! Try doing a 600# squat-or a 500# bench press with a straight face! That is one of the stupidest/dumbest things I have ever heard in my life.
These are just TWO of the hundreds of bogus/false/unfounded/snake oil claims Jones has made regarding his training philosophy-and it does not work. That is why today you no longer see Nautilus in any gyms, they are basically history.
Don't get me wrong though-the Nautilus pullover is one of the marvels of modern gym equipment-so is the double chest machine. But the equipment Jones invented does not make Jones any kind of training expert- by any means. He does not even have a college degree.
I think the idea of number two was to help in keeping your blood presure in check while training .
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Jones never said that was the reason Bix. I think what you are referring to is the "Val Salva" effect. That is when you hold your breath when lifting and pressure is put on your esophagus-which also cuts off blood flow to the brain-and could result in passing out. Yet, most people do hold their breath on heavy lifts (myself included).
I think Arthur Jones and Mike Mentzer were really, really smart guys-both of them. But what they were really smart at-especially Jones- is marketing, not training! Jones was the guy that put weight lifting machines on the map. If you don't remember or were not around, in the 1970's- early 80's there were "Nautilus" only gyms. They only had Nautilus equipment and only promoted the Nautilus training methods-and they all went out of business. 24-Hour Fitness started out as 24-Hour Nautilus (they changed the name about 10-15 years ago), but they no longer use only Nautilus equipment or follow the training philosophy.
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Jones never said that was the reason Bix. I think what you are referring to is the "Val Salva" effect. That is when you hold your breath when lifting and pressure is put on your esophagus-which also cuts off blood flow to the brain-and could result in passing out. Yet, most people do hold their breath on heavy lifts (myself included).
I think Arthur Jones and Mike Mentzer were really, really smart guys-both of them. But what they were really smart at-especially Jones- is marketing, not training! Jones was the guy that put weight lifting machines on the map. If you don't remember or were not around, in the 1970's- early 80's there were "Nautilus" only gyms. They only had Nautilus equipment and only promoted the Nautilus training methods-and they all went out of business. 24-Hour Fitness started out as 24-Hour Nautilus (they changed the name about 10-15 years ago), but they no longer use only Nautilus equipment or follow the training philosophy.
Val Salva effect . . . thank God for Google or this ass would have nothing to post. Time to change your undergarmets aint it pops.
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Val Salva effect . . . thank God for Google or this ass would have nothing to post. Time to change your undergarmets aint it pops.
CrunchHomo/Paxil/Xkol/start posting under your real name.....
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CrunchHomo/Paxil/Xkol/start posting under your real name.....
Your right pops. I will start posting under Ronnie Abston from now on.
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Your right pops. I will start posting under Ronnie Abston from now on.
I forgot-Big Ron Abston-one of your other handles....BTW-who is that?
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People also forget arthur jones pretty much developed hammer strength as well
the guy isnt dumb by no means
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If Arthur Jones is dumb I'll take it. If you can make millions and developed equipment and ideas stilll used 30+ years after thinking of them then I'll take stupid and dumb to an all different level.
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Arthur Jones'es son is the one behind Hammer Strength.
I think some of the Nautilus equipment is the best ever developed, like the pullover and lower back machines, most of it I don't like. Their hip machine was very expensive and I think one of the worst pieces of equipment I have even used. The 4 way neck machine was garbage as well.
Jones made millions not on the equipment-but on the Nautilus training philosophy, or HIT. He got the masses to believe you could work out 30 minutes/day 3x/week and get in tremendous condition-and it is all bullshit- really. Even a top level pro like M Mentzer did not get into top shape on that philosophy-and if MM couldn't then how is an average everyday Joe going to?
Jones sold a fantasy to the masses on getting in shape-and it made him money-but it was all a scam in my book, and I would not want to ever mislead people the wayJones did-not my style. It takes hard work, consistency and dedication to train hard day in and day out and there are no short cuts to it.
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If his son developed it you can bet his dad had a big part in it. Also, I just can't believe that everything as you say (in the most part) was all bullshit by Jones. Sorry but in this industry no many things last 30+ years without something working. I just can't imagine Jones is a legend and yet it was all a scam. I think you may be talking out of your ass with no actual hard evidence and personal experience with him directly. Just reading about it and hearing it from a guy in the gym doesn't count.
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Actually the one talking out his ass was Arthur Jones-he made wild and unsubstantiated claims on his training philosophy. He never backed any of his "clams" up with scientific evidence-published in scientific journals.
A perfect example was that Jones said you have to work every muscle 3x/week b/c the muscle atrophies after 48 hours. That is total and complete bullshit and that has been proven false in numerous scientific studies. Most people today train a body part once a week. Some people train bigger body parts like legs once every 2 weeks-blows that 48 hour BS of Jones out of the water.
BTW-as for Nautilus lasting 30+ years-they are in business today by a shoe string. No major gym uses Nautilus equipment today. I have not seen a NEW piece of commercial Nautilus equipment for at least 15 years. That being the case-does Nautilus work today? Not really if you judge by equipment sales. They are making mattresses today to try to make $$-that is how bad it is for Nautilus.
I would not call Arthur Jones a legend-he did pioneer some excellent equipment-pioneer, yes-legend, no.
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If his son developed it you can bet his dad had a big part in it. Also, I just can't believe that everything as you say (in the most part) was all bullshit by Jones. Sorry but in this industry no many things last 30+ years without something working. I just can't imagine Jones is a legend and yet it was all a scam. I think you may be talking out of your ass with no actual hard evidence and personal experience with him directly. Just reading about it and hearing it from a guy in the gym doesn't count.
Arthur Jones is a genius plain and simple. Geniuses are always mistunderstood.
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Does this fool know that the parent company of Hammer Strength Systems, is Nautilus.
More Smoke and Mirrors from the OLD SCHOOL GURU, 619
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I do have to admit I know the people at Nautilus and with equipment toping well over $25 million in sales this year they aren't doing to bad. Just about every hotel in Hawaii has some Nautilus if there is a gym present. 2 of Sheratons on this island carry exclusively Nautilus they just installed this year. And it is hard to believe a company like Nautilus is doing so bad when they bought out Bowflex, Stairmaster and Schwinn. A company doing weak sales generally doesn't buy a company that exceeds $100 million in sales. Yes, Hammer is owned by LifeFitness not Nautilus.
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Does this fool know that the parent company of Hammer Strength Systems, is Nautilus.
More Smoke and Mirrors from the OLD SCHOOL GURU, 619
LifeFitness
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619
have you ever read jones history
the guy had more balls than most people
he used to go around looking for rare artifacts in africa
the guy was quite an adventurer he lost his whole fortune when the goverment in africa
took all his ownings
and then he invented nautilus
you could never do those things if you wanted to.
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me and paxil rose are different people.
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I do have to admit I know the people at Nautilus and with equipment toping well over $25 million in sales........ And it is hard to believe a company like Nautilus is doing so bad when they bought out Bowflex, Stairmaster and Schwinn. A company doing weak sales generally doesn't buy a company that exceeds $100 million in sales. Yes, Hammer is owned by LifeFitness not Nautilus.
The commercial equipment line of Nautilus is different from the holding company itself-Nautilus Group Inc. Nautilus Group Inc owns Stairmaster, Bowflex and Schwinn as well as the Nautilus brand of commercial gym equipment. Those are the 4 divisions of Nautilus Group Inc.
Nautilus Group Inc. has a very good balance sheet and do over half a billion per yearin sales-but the Nautilus gym equipment line is a very small part of that amount-AND if the 25 million number you stated is correct-then it is less than 5% of Nautilus Group Inc's total sales-which means that Bowflex, Stairmaster and Schwinn are the big money makers in the company. And that is far more likely based on what I have seen recently.
I have been in all the newer gyms in San Diego, and really all over So Cal, and I have not seen a single piece of new Nautilus equipment-in even one gym. I have been in the big hotels and usually they have very small gyms-maybe a few pieces of equipment or a Universal machine-Nautilus is not going to be making the big sales in the hotel industry.
The fastest growing fitness chain in CA right now is Fitness 19-run by the family that started Family Fitness Centers-they have a deal with LifeFitness and all the equipment they use is from them-including all cardio and weights (Hammer).
Onlyme-find out from your friends how the Nautius commercial equipment is doing..... compared to the other three divisions............... ...
And who owns lifefitness, assclown. You said they were hanging on by a string and onlyme smacked you mouth.
Ass Clown needs more schooling so here goes....
Nautilus DOES NOT own Lifefitness ass clown.........
Man-evertime you open yourt mouth you get schooled.
Knny187 and Onlyme just told you-if you could read the post-that Hammer is owned by Lifefitness-not Nautilus...........
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And who owns lifefitness, assclown. You said they were hanging on by a string and onlyme smacked you mouth. Grow up Ronnie.
619 Rules' tears cure cancer. Too bad he has never cried.
A man once asked 619Rules if his real name is "Ronnie". 619Rules did not respond, he simply stared at him until he exploded.
Rather than being birthed like a normal child, 619Rules instead decided to punch his way out of his mother's womb. Shortly thereafter he grew a beard.
619Rules recently had the idea to sell his urine as a canned beverage. We know this beverage as Red Bull.
619Rules built a time machine and went back in time to stop the JFK assassination. As Oswald shot, Ronnie met all three bullets with his beard, deflecting them. JFK's head exploded out of sheer amazement.
619Rules lives by only one rule: No Asian men.
619Rules was the fourth Wiseman. He brought baby Jesus the gift of "beard". Jesus wore it proudly to his dying day. The other Wisemen, jealous of Jesus' obvious gift favoritism, used their combined influence to have 619 omitted from the Bible. Shortly after all three died of roundhouse kick related deaths.
619Rules boylfriend once asked him how much wood a woodchuck could chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood. He then shouted, "HOW DARE YOU RHYME IN THE PRESENCE OF 619Rules!" and ripped out his throat. Holding his boyfriend's bloody throat in his hand he bellowed, "Don't f**k with Ronnie!" Two years and five months later he realized the irony of this statement and laughed so hard that anyone within a hundred mile radius of the blast went deaf.
619Rules once went to a frat party, and proceeded to roundhouse every popped collar in sight. He then drank three kegs and pooped on their floor, just because he's 619Rules.
619Rules once shot a German plane down with his finger, by yelling, "Bang!"
619Rules can make a woman climax by simply pointing at her and saying "booya".
To prove it isn't that big of a deal to beat cancer. 619Rules smoked 15 cartons of cigarettes a day for 2 years and aquired 7 different kinds of cancer only to rid them from his body by flexing for 30 minutes. Beat that, Lance Armstrong.
619Rules does not sleep. He waits.
Before each workout 619Rules, is injected with five times the lethal dose of elephant tranquilzer. This is, of course, to limit his strength and mobility, in an attempt to lower the fatality rate of the others training in the same gym.
619Rules sold his soul to the devil for his rugged good looks and unparalleled body of bodybuilding information. Shortly after the transaction was finalized, 619 roundhouse kicked the devil in the face and took his soul back. The devil, who appreciates irony, couldn't stay mad and admitted he should have seen it coming. They now play poker every second Wednesday of the month.
When 619Rules's boyfriend burned the turkey one Thanksgiving, 619 said, "Don't worry about it honey," and went into his backyard. He came back five minutes later with a live turkey, ate it whole, and when he threw it up a few seconds later it was fully cooked and came with cranberry sauce. When his man asked him how he had done it, he gave him a roundhouse kick to the face and said, "Never question 619Rules."
Takeru Kobayashi ate 50 and a half hotdogs in 12 minutes. 619Rules ate 12 asian babies in 50 and a half minutes. 619 won.
619Rules punched a woman in the vagina when she didn't give him exact change. 619, hates woman.
619Rules frequently signs up for beginner karate classes, just so he can "accidentally" beat the shit out of little kids.
In one episode of Fresh Prince of Bel Air, 619Rules replaced Carlton for one scene and nobody noticed.
619Rules ruins the endings of Harry Potter books for children who just bought one for the hell of it. When they start crying 619 calmly says, "I'll give you something to cry about," and roundhouse kicks them in the face.
619Rules once tried to sue Burger King after they refused to put razor wire in his Whopper Jr., insisting that that actually is "his" way.
619Rules is currently suing NBC, claiming Law and Order are trademarked names for his left and right legs.
One of the greatest cover-ups of the last century was the fact that Hitler did not commit suicide in his bunker, but was in fact tea-bagged to death by 619Rules.
Even if you take all four aces out of a deck of cards, 619Rules would still get 21 on the first hand of blackjack. What happens in Vagas, stays in Vagas.
wow, you should get a life
http://www.ebay.com
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Off the Top of my head & just browsing a few manufacturers year end numbers....
Nautilus - $523 million
Life Fitness - $558 million
Precor - $222 million
Icon Fitness - $1,095 million
Life Fitness is the Leading company in commercial sales equipment.
The majority (at least 80%) of Nautilus's money is coming from consumer sales.
And as 619Rules said & I agree....there's very few gyms that carry the Nautilus line. Years ago most gym stopped carrying & re-ordering the Nautilus line because of past company financial problems. Believe it or not...there is a few of the commercial tread climbers being used here in clubs in So Cal. The freeweight/machine side of Nautilus is mostly non existent in major health clubs but is still being used in "Curves" type fitness centers.
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I could care less about either company. Unless I had some stock in one of them. Then I would be concerned. I actually some of the Nautilus benches cause they are wider and very sturdy.
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I could care less about either company. Unless I had some stock in one of them. Then I would be concerned. I actually some of the Nautilus benches cause they are wider and very sturdy.
I actually think American Manufactures "miss the boat" when it comes to free weight benches.
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Mike Mentzer threads start controversy no matter how they come up.
Mike had a great physique. His training methods while he was competing were the right thing at the right time, I'm sure they were radical then.
As far as the logic of what works sticks around over the years, then why do the mags on the whole espouse high volume training? That style of training has survived MM to this day, yet I know very few who use it.
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Mike Mentzer threads start controversy no matter how they come up.
As far as the logic of what works sticks around over the years, then why do the mags on the whole espouse high volume training? That style of training has survived MM to this day, yet I know very few who use it.
If 12-20 sets is high volume I know many people who follow that type of workout-I would say most hardcore BBers use that type of routine........and the reason is pretty simple-it works.
Although some people might not consider 12 sets volume training....I would though.
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Might be a good time to post this old pic of Mike. He was pretty outspoken about Arnold the last time I spoke with him many years ago.
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Might be a good time to post this old pic of Mike. He was pretty outspoken about Arnold the last time I spoke with him many years ago.
Do share some stories, stuntmovie!
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I'll be honest, the ONE AND ONLY reason people think HIT is bs and the whole one set to failure thing is bs, is because they are not training anywhere in the realm of the intensity that AJ used with himself and his bodybuilders.
I've always said this. Those who don't believe in HIT probably really haven't ever done it or found it so harsh that they couldn't stick with it. NOTHING TO DO WITH EFFECTIVENESS. Oliva & Viator thought it very effective, so anyone here criticizing it should accept that their opinions are just that.
Nautilus has nothing to do with the old Nautilus! The current Nautilus is a name that was assumed about 3 years ago.
Jones made millions not on the equipment-but on the Nautilus training philosophy, or HIT
Where does this info come from? In the 70s & 80s there were many gyms replete with the entire Nautilus line of equipment, through which customers were funnelled through a circuit.
He got the masses to believe you could work out 30 minutes/day 3x/week and get in tremendous condition-and it is all bullshit- really.
Not BS-the masses were not practicing true HIT; even most BBs couldn't stay true to the program.
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I would not call Arthur Jones a legend-he did pioneer some excellent equipment-pioneer, yes-legend, no.
As much as there are legends in BB, he is. You just don't like the idea while someone more objective can see it.
BTW-as for Nautilus lasting 30+ years-they are in business today by a shoe string. No major gym uses Nautilus equipment today. I have not seen a NEW piece of commercial Nautilus equipment for at least 15 years. That being the case-does Nautilus work today? Not really if you judge by equipment sales. They are making mattresses today to try to make $$-that is how bad it is for Nautilus.
The very very evident bitterness here really devalues your assessments.
The fastest growing fitness chain in CA right now is Fitness 19-run by the family that started Family Fitness Centers-they have a deal with LifeFitness and all the equipment they use is from them-including all cardio and weights (Hammer).
Onlyme-find out from your friends how the Nautius commercial equipment is doing..... compared to the other three divisions............... ...
How well they're doing today does little to discredit previous popularity; times change, competitors come in with comparable equipment, even Hammer.
As far as revenues, Stairmaster's one of their worst-performing brands but one of the best in terms of quality, so i'd hardly say that sales figures should be used as the sole basis for assessment.
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As far as the logic of what works sticks around over the years, then why do the mags on the whole espouse high volume training? That style of training has survived MM to this day, yet I know very few who use it.
Most people including BBs don't like it, aren't on it long enough to judge it fairly. True HIT is extremely challenging for short periods of time, and isn't what most who claim to be HIT trainers are doing.
And as 619Rules said & I agree....there's very few gyms that carry the Nautilus line. Years ago most gym stopped carrying & re-ordering the Nautilus line because of past company financial problems. Believe it or not...there is a few of the commercial tread climbers being used here in clubs in So Cal. The freeweight/machine side of Nautilus is mostly non existent in major health clubs but is still being used in "Curves" type fitness centers.
As far as current Nautilus equipment, today's performance is irrelevant to what they achieved previously.
As far as other lines, they have nothing to do with Nautilus-it is not the same Nautilus.
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If 12-20 sets is high volume I know many people who follow that type of workout-I would say most hardcore BBers use that type of routine........and the reason is pretty simple-it works.
Do you always see things in blacks & whites? That's a simplistic one-dimensional rationalization.
It's not just that volume works, it's because most BBs LIKE using volume. This was the explanation given by Dave Draper at a seminar, in answer to why HIT wasn't so popular. Didn't waste time with silly theories about it's ineffectiveness, that's not the whole thing.
True HIT is effective, and is rarely practiced because it's challenging to those accustomed to volume, thus the results are not good. With Oliva & Viator espousing it's efficacy, it's rather stupid to generalize about it's ineffectiveness. ;D
I will say it again, Arthur Jones made WILD and UNFOUNDED claims about his training philosophy that had no basis in fact (as dd M Mentzer). He did this as a gimmick to sell his Nautilus equipment. Nautilus equipment is almost gone from the face of the earth today. That tells you if his bogus claims were the real deal or not.
Your interpretations are so one-sides as to be laughable. Again you generalize in blacks & whites. A lot of what he said actually makes sense to this day and he you go yourself with unfounded claims that none of it makes sense.