Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting

[Fury]

nobody wins in this trial.   gun rights take a hit no matter what.  trayvon is dead already.

zimmerman walks, and i doubt anyone is going to look at him - with his 2x history of violence before this - and SMILE and celebrate.  He's going to be back on the streets with his 9mm the day after the trial, still dangerous to the people around him.

zimmerman goes to jail, and nobody should celebrate.  A dumb person who created a dangerous situation, then was sent to jail by an emotional jury.  Maybe he didn't technically break the law, but they punish him anyway.  more legislation from the jury box.  de Jure > de facto. 

Everyone loses on this case, no matter the outcome.  Anyone who celebrates doesn't know how scary it is that a dangerous man will have a gun again and be back out there - or doesn't understand how scary it is that juries can just lock people up who don't technically break the law.  Scary all around!

I'll probably smile, though I don't care enough to celebrate. It will be good to see race-baiting hustler leftists like yourself get smacked down and put in your place. Imagine if you clowns spent half the time you did frothing at the mouth over this case on something constructive.

[dario73]

according to the talking heads on the news -

the prosecution has the abilty to lessen the charge, and probably will, to tell the jury "go ahead and make it manslaughter if you don't think we proved murder 2"

So manslaughter, serve 5 year of an 8 year bid, sounds like where he'll end up.  It's probably the right charge.  however, if the prosecution had the ability to change all along, it makes sense to aim high.  I mean, you don't ASK your chick for a handjob haha.   You ASK for sex, and then if it's not happening you SETTLE for the HJ or BJ.  You don't just aim low or you end up handling things by yourself haha.

So if prosecution has had the ability all along to lower if it doesn't end well, it can scale back, and zimm will still go to jail.

My opinion is that this is unfair. Why should any defendant be found guilty of anything when the State can't make their case? It basically turns the entire legal proceeding into a fishing expedition.  We can't get you on the original charge, but we will get you on something else no matter what. It is bordering on unjust prosecution.

And I don't care for Zimm. But, to me, it's not right for a legal system to allow a prosecutor change charges when they see that they are losing. Some may think this is fine because they have already judged Zimm as being guilty. But, what if it was you on that seat?

[dario73]

I don't know if this is true but I heard the other day that if the charge is changed to manslaughter, Zimm could get up to 30 years because Trayvon was under 18 yrs old.

That's what I heard but I don't know the accuracy of that statement.

[Shockwave]

My opinion is that this is unfair. Why should any defendant be found guilty of anything when the State can't make their case? It basically turns the entire legal proceeding into a fishing expedition.  We can't get you on the original charge, but we will get you on something else no matter what. It is bordering on unjust prosecution.

And I don't care for Zimm. But, to me, it's not right for a legal system to allow a prosecutor change charges when they see that they are losing. Some may think this is fine because they have already judged Zimm as being guilty. But, what if it was you on that seat?

agreed. You shouldnt be able to get halfway through the case, realize youre making a fool out of yourself, and switch the charge mid trial bbecauseyou let a bunch of emotional people override your common sense.

stupid.

[Straw Man]

That is weak ass shit if you ask me. 

are you really an attorney

if what 240 has said is correct then even an average 5th grader can easily understand the strategy involved

[Soul Crusher]

are you really an attorney

if what 240 has said is correct then even an average 5th grader can easily understand the strategy involved

Which is why people increasingly come to detest police, DA's, authority, etc.

I hope Zimm walks scot free  at this point just to shove it down the throats of every race baiting leftist in this country

[Straw Man]

nobody wins in this trial.   gun rights take a hit no matter what.  trayvon is dead already.

zimmerman walks, and i doubt anyone is going to look at him - with his 2x history of violence before this - and SMILE and celebrate.  He's going to be back on the streets with his 9mm the day after the trial, still dangerous to the people around him.

zimmerman goes to jail, and nobody should celebrate.  A dumb person who created a dangerous situation, then was sent to jail by an emotional jury.  Maybe he didn't technically break the law, but they punish him anyway.  more legislation from the jury box.  de Jure > de facto. 

Everyone loses on this case, no matter the outcome.  Anyone who celebrates doesn't know how scary it is that a dangerous man will have a gun again and be back out there - or doesn't understand how scary it is that juries can just lock people up who don't technically break the law.  Scary all around!

how will "gun rights" take a hit from this trial

[Straw Man]

Which is why people increasingly come to detest police, DA's, authority, etc.

I hope Zimm walks scot free  at this point just to shove it down the throats of every race baiting leftist in this country

I have no problem with it at all and it seems fair

they are giving the jury the option of convicting him on a lesser charge

[Soul Crusher]

I have no problem with it at all and it seems fair

they are giving the jury the option of convicting him on a lesser charge

Yeah - charge a guy with murder and label him a murderer and then when your case is exposed as a complete failure and hoax - pull a fast one at the last minute like that.   No way - pure fucking bullshit.   Charge the guy w the appropriate crime from the beginning.

I know being an advocate of the police state and limitless govt power to squash people you have no problem w this - but most people do. 

[Straw Man]

Yeah - charge a guy with murder and label him a murderer and then when your case is exposed as a complete failure and hoax - pull a fast one at the last minute like that.   No way - pure fucking bullshit.   Charge the guy w the appropriate crime from the beginning.

I know being an advocate of the police state and limitless govt power to squash people you have no problem w this - but most people do. 

I see it as giving the jury flexibility

I heard talk of this weeks ago

I'm amazed this is something you've never heard of given your claim to being a lawyer (maybe now we know why you spend your time doing debt collection)

[Soul Crusher]

I see it as giving the jury flexibility

I heard talk of this weeks ago

I'm amazed this is something you've never heard of given your claim to being a lawyer (maybe now we know why you spend your time doing debt collection)

Giving flexibility?  WTF are you talking about?

[Straw Man]

Giving flexibility?  WTF are you talking about?

how is it you don't understand that statement

btw - I can see where defendants would like this as well

if you're faced with a murder charge wouldn't you like to know the jury has the option to convict you of a lesser charge if they don't believe you committed murder

seriously dude - I'm really starting to doubt you're a practicing attorney

[Jack T. Cross]

BTW, reading this UTTER RUBBISH from a RIDICULOUS EXCUSE for a "news-reporting organization" is painful, but here we are...

**

ROBERT SIEGEL, HOST:

And I'm Robert Siegel. Today, in the trial of George Zimmerman, a key witness bolstered Zimmerman's claim that he acted in self-defense when he killed teenager Trayvon Martin. The witness was a neighbor in the Sanford, Florida community where Zimmerman encountered Martin and he was the only person to see them fight before Zimmerman fired the gunshot that ended Martin's life.

Here's NPR's Greg Allen.

GREG ALLEN, BYLINE: On that night in February of last year, John Good and his wife were watching TV in their townhome when Good says he heard sounds outside. In the courtroom in Sanford today, he told prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda he opened the sliding door to his patio and stepped outside. He saw two people struggling and one soon was on top of the other in a straddling position. He said he could tell it was serious.

JOHN GOOD: Because it looked like there were strikes being thrown or punches being thrown, but as I clarified, due to the lighting, it could have also been, you know, holding down.

ALLEN: This is a story John Good has told many times before. He spoke to police that night and, over the next 16 months, was interviewed by other police, state investigators, prosecutors and the defense. In an early interview, he said the person on top was, quote, "raining down blows in a style similar to MMA," Mixed Martial Arts fighting. In more recent depositions, though, Good modified that description, saying he's not sure now he saw any blows struck.

In the courtroom, he said he never saw Trayvon Martin slam George Zimmerman's head against the concrete as the defendant claims. De la Rionda picked up the questioning.

BERNIE DE LA RIONDA: The person on top - could you tell where that person on top was actually striking? And here's what I'm going to do.

(SOUNDBITE OF SLAPPING NOISE)

RIONDA: Were they going like this?

GOOD: I could not hear that. No.

RIONDA: Could you hear...

(SOUNDBITE OF POUNDING NOISE)

RIONDA: ...this?

GOOD: No.

ALLEN: Several other neighbors from the townhome community who have testified so far have raised questions about parts of Zimmerman's story. Except for John Good, though, none actually saw the fight before the shot was fired.

Under questioning by Zimmerman's lawyer Mark O'Mara today, Good confirmed some key parts of Zimmerman's version of events.

MARK O'MARA: The person who you now know to be Trayvon Martin was on top. Correct?

GOOD: Correct.

O'MARA: And he was the one who was raining blows down on the person on the bottom, George Zimmerman. Right?

GOOD: That's what it looked like.

ALLEN: O'Mara also got Good to confirm another key part of Zimmerman's story that the Neighborhood Watch volunteer was the one calling for help.

O'MARA: You now believe that that was George Zimmerman's voice. Correct?

GOOD: I never said that.

O'MARA: Do you believe...

GOOD: It could have been his, but I was not 100 percent sure.

O'MARA: I'm not asking for 100 percent certainty. I'm asking you to use your common sense and to tell us if you think that that was George Zimmerman's voice screaming for help, the person on the bottom.

GOOD: That's just my opinion.

Greg Allen, NPR News, Miami.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=196691611

[Jack T. Cross]

Anyone have any comment on this, from above: "He saw two people struggling and one soon was on top of the other in a straddling position. He said he could tell it was serious."

[dario73]

Anyone have any comment on this, from above: "He saw two people struggling and one soon was on top of the other in a straddling position. He said he could tell it was serious."

You highlight the words "holding down". If that is all Trayvon was doing, how did Zimm get a busted nose?

[Archer77]

You highlight the words "holding down". If that is all Trayvon was doing, how did Zimm get a busted nose?

I'm not saying it was aliens.....but it was aliens

[Jack T. Cross]

Would it be consistent with bearing the full thrust of a knee, elbow or a hand?

[OzmO]

Would it be consistent with bearing the full thrust of a knee, elbow or a hand?

If so, then he wasn't "just" holding him down

[Soul Crusher]

If he was jost holding him down  and now going to town on Zimm - why was Zimm screaming for help? 

[Soul Crusher]

http://www.businessinsider.com/vincent-di-maios-george-zimmerman-testimony-2013-7



bbboooommmmmmmmm


Another nail in the coffin of the DA, 240, Obama, and Rev. Al

[240 is Back]

agreed. You shouldnt be able to get halfway through the case, realize youre making a fool out of yourself, and switch the charge mid trial bbecauseyou let a bunch of emotional people override your common sense.

stupid.

The experts are all saying it's what they'll probably do.  It's a bit of a loss for the prosecution - cause if they put that on the table, it's almost certain they don't get murder2.

however, the defense will claim a win too... Hey, charged with murder, and look, we beat the murder rap.

And he'll have 5 years in solidatary writing a book that peopole who support the violent zimmerman will most certainly buy.

[Soul Crusher]

Forensic pathologist Vincent Di Maio's testimony during George Zimmerman's second-degree murder trial directly conflicted with the testimony of the state's key medical experts.

Di Maio, a renowned expert on gunshot wounds, told jurors Tuesday he saw evidence of at least six impacts on Zimmerman's head. He also said those blows were likely the result of severe force, backing up Zimmerman's claims he killed 17-year-old Trayvon Martin in self-defense.

That testimony contradicted testimony from Valerie Rao, a Florida medical examiner who testified for the state that Zimmerman's head injuries were "so minor" and were likely the result of a single impact.

But Di Maio said Tuesday, "You can have severe head trauma without any marks on the head."

Di Maio's account also conflicted with that of Shipping Bao, the medical examiner who autopsied Martin and testified that Zimmerman's gun made contact with the teenager's body.

Based on powder residue and the gun's trajectory, however, Di Maio said the gun was 2 to 4 inches from Martin's body, touching his shirt. Since Martin's shirt was away from his body, this also suggests that Martin was on top of Zimmerman, leaning over him, Di Maio said.

Zimmerman says Martin punched him, climbed on top of him, and slammed his head into the sidewalk, so testimony that the teenager was on top of him could bolster his defense.


Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/vincent-di-maios-george-zimmerman-testimony-2013-7#ixzz2YaB3Vw00

[240 is Back]

If he was jost holding him down  and now going to town on Zimm - why was Zimm screaming for help?  

easy - he wanted the police (that were 2 minutes away) to arrive sooner and catch trayvon in the act.

it'd result in jail time for trayvon.  ziimm would be a local hero and he might get his bike back - it was a nice bike and he thought trayvon stole it.

It's not the first time a person initiated a fight to get the other guy to swing right as the official walks in.  Ever watch the NFL?

[240 is Back]

is that the same witness who was near deaf and pining on and on about how beautiful it was in san antonio?  he seemed senile.  that was the dude on this morning at 10.  not sure if same guy, didn't watch today.

[Jack T. Cross]

Read the testimony, you guys.  The witness does NOT claim to know who was screaming, and the gun could cause EITHER person to scream.  (Please remember, too, that the witness was UNAWARE of a gun when he observed the conflict.*)

A knee, elbow or hand thrust upon the face would NOT be an unusual occurrence if a person was trying to position his body in order to physically contain someone in possession of a gun.

I'll be back later to fight it out with some of you guys.

*And to anyone that would say that's proof the fight wasn't over the gun, please remember that the witness didn't see their mouths, either, to see who was screaming.  Once again, he based his initial assumption on the fact that Zimmerman was on the bottom at the time he observed the conflict.