When Will A True Federal Investigation Into BB Steroid Use Be Initiated?

[Moosejay]

there will never be investigation into bodybuilding or ifbb use of anything simply because the pockets of the weider dinesty is so deep and so rich that the poor fella that think about doing it will end up losing his job,,people like joseph weider can make or break presidents of usa and get them not ellected,,same for vince macmown and steven spielberg and bill gates and warren and many many others some are not even americans

1MONEY TALKS IN USA,,YOU HAVE MONEY YOU WILL BE EVERYTHING,,YOU DONT? YOU WILL BE NOTHING
2THE RICHEST PEOPLE ARE THE ONES WHO WALK AMONG YOU LOOKING AVERAGE TO POOR IN THE CLOTHINGS AND JUST LOOKIGN EVERYDAY JOE WITH SIMPLE WATCH ON THEIR WRIST,,THOSE ARE THE RICHEST PEOPLE

Gh15

I have read a few of your postings and you genuinely seem to be a man 'in the know', with a high level of knowledge and even inside information. I don't post or come to the board often so my position of having knowledge of your standing in the bodybuilding world is finite at best.

You are correct beyond where most will suspect: many who have virtually endless means as far as money and power often present as the most nondescript in our everyday communities. They dress and drive vehicles in understated ways.

In a nutshell, the last thing they want to do is call attention to themselves.

Indeed, they hardly feel the pressure to spend inordinate amounts of money to scream to society that "This is what I have/earn..."

That being said, and, in terms of means/money/influence/power, I still feel something MAY BE mooming in the not-so-far-off future regarding a 'calling on the carpet' of bodybuilding regarding illegal drug use.

Mike    

[kcballer]

These "investigations" are all about headlines, the "war on drugs" and soaking the taxpayers for more money for bogus "programs".

Roger Clemens and Barry Bonds can be used to sell a false bill of goods to the American (ignorant) people.
Kai Greene and Desmond Miller cannot.

Besides, there are still people who believe that NBA, NFL, and MLB guys are clean.
No one looks at a Pro Bodybuilder anymore and thinks it's all from hard work.

NBA drug use isn't of the performance enhancing kind.  The most commonly used drug is marijuana as it goes hand in hand with the hip hop culture.  NFL and MLB yes but the NBA is clean of steroids. 

[Moosejay]

What Gh15 means is in competitive bodybuilding, very little money is to be had by the average competitor as far as contest winnings and related compensation as far as mainstream marketing opportunities, television, etc.

Personal training opportunities can be an offshoot from bb success on the posing dais, but ytou can have that without being a competitor. And, the average client would be one who does not want to be a bodybuilder, so, again, you needn't be a bb to attract high-grade clients (especially those with boatloads of discretionary income...the clients you want!).

And remember, personal training is a 'dollars for hours' type of business.

What this means is that unless you employ a number of trainers working under you (best way to make substantial income), you are only making money when seeing clients.

In a 40 hour work week, this limits your income.

You can make numbers ranging from 20K to 60 K, and this is okay for some. Great for others.

But not "get rich" money, to which I think Gh15 was alluding.

Yes, giant fortunes can be made from bb.

This being so from owning supplement companies (this was easier at one timne...not so much so anymore), or in parallel efforts.

If you win Mr. Olympia, maybe big money can be yours, but many 'business-savvy' and marketing ingenuity type of saavy must be aligned properly.

But for the vast majority, none of this beats a solid education and hard/smart work.

Mike

[HowieW]

I just saw the coverage of the Sen Mitchell report and press conf of comm Selig.
This was HUGE and named aprox 75 players a guilty.
Will bodybuilding be part of this probe? Maybe? why...?
One name , one word- ARNOLD!

His show the Arnold classic , bears his name and the DEA did serve over 50 supeonas a couple years ago at the event. If  Arnold wasn't the present GOV of California, I would say, NO WAY , would the feds be bothered with the small, insular, low coverage of pro bodybuilding. BUT, the biggest name (ARNOLD) in the history our sport and the 2nd biggest pro show in the sport is directly linked with current politics .

I suspect most in bodybuilding will "blow off" this current Mitchell report and carry on with business as usual.  I honestly feel, that this proves that hardcore bodybuilding is addicted to drugs.
The sincere fear is that we really can't have bodybuilding without drugs. If THAT is a true, shared belief, then what does it inidcate about many hardcore types??
Howard

[gh15]

NBA drug use isn't of the performance enhancing kind.  The most commonly used drug is marijuana as it goes hand in hand with the hip hop culture.  NFL and MLB yes but the NBA is clean of steroids. 

really? so you say there is no hormoen use among athletes who need to play 3 games a week sometimes more and perfrom to the max? you ssay that weed would make them perform at the highest level consistantly at 3 + games a week? hormone in basketball is very common ,,its just that the players are too tall to see the benefit of the use of muscle bulking drugs,,basketball players use growth and oxandrolone/halotestin alot more than anyone out there thinks,,growth and oxandrolone combo on basketball player with some epo = top performance and if all team on it it can = nba title

peope dont know what they talking about ,,the united states main advantage in sports is due to enormous use of drugs starting in the late 50s ,,money = better

[mass 04]

really? so you say there is no hormoen use among athletes who need to play 3 games a week sometimes more and perfrom to the max? you ssay that weed would make them perform at the highest level consistantly at 3 + games a week? hormone in basketball is very common ,,its just that the players are too tall to see the benefit of the use of muscle bulking drugs,,basketball players use growth and oxandrolone/halotestin alot more than anyone out there thinks,,growth and oxandrolone combo on basketball player with some epo = top performance and if all team on it it can = nba title

peope dont know what they talking about ,,the united states main advantage in sports is due to enormous use of drugs starting in the late 50s ,,money = better

quoted for truth, it's all sports.

[gh15]

I just saw the coverage of the Sen Mitchell report and press conf of comm Selig.
This was HUGE and named aprox 75 players a guilty.
Will bodybuilding be part of this probe? Maybe? why...?
One name , one word- ARNOLD!

His show the Arnold classic , bears his name and the DEA did serve over 50 supeonas a couple years ago at the event. If  Arnold wasn't the present GOV of California, I would say, NO WAY , would the feds be bothered with the small, insular, low coverage of pro bodybuilding. BUT, the biggest name (ARNOLD) in the history our sport and the 2nd biggest pro show in the sport is directly linked with current politics .

I suspect most in bodybuilding will "blow off" this current Mitchell report and carry on with business as usual.  I honestly feel, that this proves that hardcore bodybuilding is addicted to drugs.
The sincere fear is that we really can't have bodybuilding without drugs. If THAT is a true, shared belief, then what does it inidcate about many hardcore types??
Howard

this is one thing i gurenbtee yuo will not happen,,arnold will never let bodybuilding die,,on his dead body maybe,,he is too rich and too powerfull to let any dea interfer with anything ,,hes on his way to be president if they change constitution and it may still happen before he is 70,,if not he will still be one of richest people in the world and that = no touchie for goverment for when you mess with the rich you suffer,,dea is very smart in that spect they know they want to bring food to their famelies and they are part of the system,,
in usa only thinkg that talks is money you gotta learn it

[Moosejay]

I just saw the coverage of the Sen Mitchell report and press conf of comm Selig.
This was HUGE and named aprox 75 players a guilty.
Will bodybuilding be part of this probe? Maybe? why...?
One name , one word- ARNOLD!

His show the Arnold classic , bears his name and the DEA did serve over 50 supeonas a couple years ago at the event. If  Arnold wasn't the present GOV of California, I would say, NO WAY , would the feds be bothered with the small, insular, low coverage of pro bodybuilding. BUT, the biggest name (ARNOLD) in the history our sport and the 2nd biggest pro show in the sport is directly linked with current politics .



I suspect most in bodybuilding will "blow off" this current Mitchell report and carry on with business as usual.  I honestly feel, that this proves that hardcore bodybuilding is addicted to drugs.
The sincere fear is that we really can't have bodybuilding without drugs. If THAT is a true, shared belief, then what does it inidcate about many hardcore types??
Howard

Arnold=BULLSEYE.

Many do not know of the true heat that was generated that evoked virtual steam from Arnold's collar when Vic Martinex won his Arnold Classic this past year.

Many of you will recall that Mr. Martinez was all over the media (ironically, pre and post Arnold event) with articles running the gamut from his unceremonious and sudden closing his Gold's Center and absconding with hundreds of member's fees (many of whom were NEWLY ENROLLED), to those chronicling his felony convictions for drug use and trafficking, etc.

Arnold was furiously beside himself with the fact that the judges and other officials could 'let' someone of such ill repute win his shwo, which, as we know, is named for him, the governor of the 5th largest economy in the world.

Don't expect a repeat this year.

And, most intriguingly, don't be surprised to see Arnold himself spearhead such an investigation into his own, beloved bodybuilding.

There was talk that he was going to actually ELIMINATE bodybuilding altogether from the ASC.

Imagine that!



Mike 

[gh15]

let me explain you what i mean by rich vs poor so its more understood to the common getbiger,,

a individual like oj simpson murdered his wife,,murdered the other guy ,,everyone knew its him but everyone wanted to kiss his ass,,why? because he was at one time and even today a very very rich influencial person in the usa,,and you are talking here about murder of the first degree,,double and most likley other crimes done to date in the 10s that didnt even come to surface,,this is taking life of other humans not some stupid hormones crap that no one give a 2 shits about,,

a guy like phil spector the american producer,,rich beyond rich,,got mistrial....and will walk free till the day he dies or maybe fine or something,,he murdered a girl most likley but he is rich beyond explained with very much influence,,

michsel jackson...king of kings god of gods ,,to this day he is treated in usa like the jesus christ walking on earth while he is a little kookoo in the head and most likley could pull off anything with out ever being in prison,,again we are not talking stupid hormones that no one cares about here ,,we are talking big crimes

now.....on the other hand take the murderer and the ugly wife....they are poor people and guess where they are ? you got that right somewhere between prison and hell closer to the chamber of death than you may think,,why? because they never had money!


the rich      in usa is king
the poor in usa is garbage
the rest are inbetween trying to swim and no one give 2 shits about them and the personal users of hormones are in majority among the rest and the rich ...not the poor i assure you that!

[kcballer]

really? so you say there is no hormoen use among athletes who need to play 3 games a week sometimes more and perfrom to the max? you ssay that weed would make them perform at the highest level consistantly at 3 + games a week? hormone in basketball is very common ,,its just that the players are too tall to see the benefit of the use of muscle bulking drugs,,basketball players use growth and oxandrolone/halotestin alot more than anyone out there thinks,,growth and oxandrolone combo on basketball player with some epo = top performance and if all team on it it can = nba title

peope dont know what they talking about ,,the united states main advantage in sports is due to enormous use of drugs starting in the late 50s ,,money = better

hahaha you really have no clue do you? i never said weed makes them perform at a higher level i said it's the most common drug as well as recreational drugs.  Go through and look at all the suspensions and drug test failures it's all weed and recreational drug use, the biggest drug 'bust' so to speak was Chris Anderson who went down for Class A drug use and failing the test.  The notorious repeat offenders like Lamar Odom, Damon Stoudamire, Rasheed Wallace and so on are all for smoking pot.  As for the 3x a week games have you seen how slack they are on the tail end of back to backs? there is a reason why veteran teams like San Antonio have horrible records when playing back to back - it's called age and not drugs.  Oh and did i mention they won the last NBA title hmmm imagine that a team that is by no means faster than anyone or fitter than anyone (as their back to back record shows) yet they win the title.  Sounds like you are full of sh*t gh15 stick to what you know cause it ain't basketball son

[Special Ed]

gh15,

How can u say that Joe Weider can get people elected and that keeps bodybuilding safe when most NBA/MLB/NFL/NHL owners have pockets 10x deeper than the Weiders?

For example, Paul Allen, who owns the Seattle Seahawks and the Portland Trailblazers, Mickey Arison owner of the Miami Heat or William Davidson who owns the Detroit Pistons and the Tampa Bay Lightning, all of whom are among the world's wealthiest men with net worth over 5B...

Weider ain't spending his golden days lobbying congress to lay off the bodybuilders...if anything, the team owners would be paying lobbyists to send George Mitchell to Jonestown...

[kcballer]

gh15,

How can u say that Joe Weider can get people elected and that keeps bodybuilding safe when most NBA/MLB/NFL/NHL owners have pockets 10x deeper than the Weiders?

For example, Paul Allen, who owns the Seattle Seahawks and the Portland Trailblazers, Mickey Arison owner of the Miami Heat or William Davidson who owns the Detroit Pistons and the Tampa Bay Lightning, all of whom are among the world's wealthiest men with net worth over 5B...

Weider ain't spending his golden days lobbying congress to lay off the bodybuilders...if anything, the team owners would be paying lobbyists to send George Mitchell to Jonestown...

gh15 is full of sh*t weider has a name in bodybuilding circles and thats it, outside of it you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who would give a sh*t about joe weider and bodybuilding. 

[gh15]

hahaha you really have no clue do you? i never said weed makes them perform at a higher level i said it's the most common drug as well as recreational drugs.  Go through and look at all the suspensions and drug test failures it's all weed and recreational drug use, the biggest drug 'bust' so to speak was Chris Anderson who went down for Class A drug use and failing the test.  The notorious repeat offenders like Lamar Odom, Damon Stoudamire, Rasheed Wallace and so on are all for smoking pot.  As for the 3x a week games have you seen how slack they are on the tail end of back to backs? there is a reason why veteran teams like San Antonio have horrible records when playing back to back - it's called age and not drugs.  Oh and did i mention they won the last NBA title hmmm imagine that a team that is by no means faster than anyone or fitter than anyone (as their back to back record shows) yet they win the title.  Sounds like you are full of sh*t gh15 stick to what you know cause it ain't basketball son

my friend,,the use of rec and narcotics is common in sports such as basketball,what i was talking about was with aspect to hormones,,they use and abuse it like any other sports,,rest of what you say i dont care if true or not,,because it dont change the end result that reports like this can be made for any sports,,baseball was the one chosen to be sacrificed,,most basketball players would be skinny sticks no muscle whatsoever after 3 games + a week ,,the reason they look more of a daddy wady type of build is the use of hormones and stimulants that help them recover fast and maintain what they have for it not to become a skeleton,,

dont argue with me on this one,,bsketball players are big clients

[gh15]

gh15,

How can u say that Joe Weider can get people elected and that keeps bodybuilding safe when most NBA/MLB/NFL/NHL owners have pockets 10x deeper than the Weiders?

For example, Paul Allen, who owns the Seattle Seahawks and the Portland Trailblazers, Mickey Arison owner of the Miami Heat or William Davidson who owns the Detroit Pistons and the Tampa Bay Lightning, all of whom are among the world's wealthiest men with net worth over 5B...

Weider ain't spending his golden days lobbying congress to lay off the bodybuilders...if anything, the team owners would be paying lobbyists to send George Mitchell to Jonestown...

all of whom you mentioned are rich indeed  but weider is right there among them,,it doesnt matter what people say or think,,i can assure you that weider the word among who ever need to pay attention ,,that includes parts of goverment and propective electorals,,

weider is rich beyond  your wildest imagination he just dont go talking about it or parading like donald,,you can compare weider to allen grinspan in the fact that both are rich beyong explained ,,both have enough money to buy a country

[kcballer]

my friend,,the use of rec and narcotics is common in sports such as basketball,what i was talking about was with aspect to hormones,,they use and abuse it like any other sports,,rest of what you say i dont care if true or not,,because it dont change the end result that reports like this can be made for any sports,,baseball was the one chosen to be sacrificed,,most basketball players would be skinny sticks no muscle whatsoever after 3 games + a week ,,the reason they look more of a daddy wady type of build is the use of hormones and stimulants that help them recover fast and maintain what they have for it not to become a skeleton,,

dont argue with me on this one,,bsketball players are big clients

a skeleton? hahaha the nba has been playing 82 games for a long, long, looooong time.  The players hold some semblance of muscle due to better weight trainging regimes and diet.  you can choose to make these BS claims like you do or you can face facts.  There is no evidence of steroid use and abuse in the NBA, there is no evidence of hormone use and abuse in the NBA.  Its not like baseball where guys suddenly became record breaking hitters, or the NFL where suddenly 4.40 yard dash was a lot more common for everyone from linebackers to running backs holding more size than every before.  NBA players aren't massively bigger than their 1970's or 1980's counterparts, they lift and eat a lot better hence they are bigger and able to hold it.  Also the athletic ability isn't out of this world, it's only on par with what went on in the 1970s and 1980s.  It's not like guys are all of a sudden more and more guys are putting up bigger numbers than ever or more rebounds than ever or are more athletic than ever.  There are exceptional players who do but that has always been the case since Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain (let me guess he was on hormones too right?) so really you are pretty off base gh15 like i said stick to bodybuilding.

[gh15]

a skeleton? hahaha the nba has been playing 82 games for a long, long, looooong time.  The players hold some semblance of muscle due to better weight trainging regimes and diet.  you can choose to make these BS claims like you do or you can face facts.  There is no evidence of steroid use and abuse in the NBA, there is no evidence of hormone use and abuse in the NBA.  Its not like baseball where guys suddenly became record breaking hitters, or the NFL where suddenly 4.40 yard dash was a lot more common for everyone from linebackers to running backs holding more size than every before.  NBA players aren't massively bigger than their 1970's or 1980's counterparts, they lift and eat a lot better hence they are bigger and able to hold it.  Also the athletic ability isn't out of this world, it's only on par with what went on in the 1970s and 1980s.  It's not like guys are all of a sudden more and more guys are putting up bigger numbers than ever or more rebounds than ever or are more athletic than ever.  There are exceptional players who do but that has always been the case since Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain (let me guess he was on hormones too right?) so really you are pretty off base gh15 like i said stick to bodybuilding.

the followingt substances can not be tested or detected at all! or can be maniuplated with mask agents and or by knowing when the test is going to be givem ,,as of 2007 december 14,,

growth
insulin
test suspension
test prop
test enanthat
test cyponate
deca durabolin
short acting deca npp
masteron
winstrol inject
dianabol
anapolon
oxandrolone
turinabol
halotstin
primobolan
trenbolone ace
trenbolon enantat
ephedrine
cytomel
epo
clenbuterol
albuterol
arimidex
letrozole
nolvadex
clomid
hcg
the list can go on for another 20 pages,,,none can be truly tested for with todays methods because of masking agents and known timing of tests and stupid polygraph tests that dont work,,

today athletes are all hormonized,,you will find one out of 200 that never done hormones

[kcballer]

the followingt substances can not be tested or detected at all! or can be maniuplated with mask agents and or by knowing when the test is going to be givem ,,as of 2007 december 14,,

growth
insulin
test suspension
test prop
test enanthat
test cyponate
deca durabolin
short acting deca npp
masteron
winstrol inject
dianabol
anapolon
oxandrolone
turinabol
halotstin
primobolan
trenbolone ace
trenbolon enantat
ephedrine
cytomel
epo
clenbuterol
albuterol
arimidex
letrozole
nolvadex
clomid
hcg
the list can go on for another 20 pages,,,none can be truly tested for with todays methods because of masking agents and known timing of tests and stupid polygraph tests that dont work,,

today athletes are all hormonized,,you will find one out of 200 that never done hormones

i have no doubt these things can all be taken with masking agents.  But read what i said - there is no evidence that they are being used.  The players aren't noticably bigger (without explanation), or faster, or more athletic which would all be indications of hormone use.  It's obvious you know a thing or two about hormones but like i said not about the NBA. 

[Moosejay]

all of whom you mentioned are rich indeed  but weider is right there among them,,it doesnt matter what people say or think,,i can assure you that weider the word among who ever need to pay attention ,,that includes parts of goverment and propective electorals,,

weider is rich beyond  your wildest imagination he just dont go talking about it or parading like donald,,you can compare weider to allen grinspan in the fact that both are rich beyong explained ,,both have enough money to buy a country

Agreed.

His means far exceed the 300 million or so that his publishing empire was purchased for by AMI.

He just sees no semblance of logic at all in trumpeting his wealth to the masses.

Mike

[gh15]

i have no doubt these things can all be taken with masking agents.  But read what i said - there is no evidence that they are being used.  The players aren't noticably bigger (without explanation), or faster, or more athletic which would all be indications of hormone use.  It's obvious you know a thing or two about hormones but like i said not about the NBA. 

pay attention to the way they looked in the 40s and begginign of 50s to the way they looked during dr j time to the way they looked during magic johnson times and larry bird times to the way they look today,,you got monsters in creation ,,it is a result of constant use of hormones and related products,,it has nothing to do with new foods or new training,,

player from 40s is a soft skinny woman in comparing to player from doc j era in comparing to player from magic jonson era in comparing to the hard developed cut muscle todays player present inaddition to enourmous load of work a lot more than in the past

a professional athlete is a drug user ESPECIALLY IN THE US OF A ,,it is a known thing but! what makes money should never be touched,,and those sports are a lot of what makes money for the goverment so its all done in specifics and in terms suited to everyone ,,the baseball leage was sacrificed,,nothing will change ,,,jose brought it up it had to be worked a little,,and now its gonna be in the news for next year or 2 and then back to business as usual,,infact nothing will happen at all and in myopinon it will only increase to a point of complete legalization of hormones in the next 5-10 years in the usa

mark and date

[ferd]

Oh it's coming.  Once a "commision" is estabished and you have these people who love the publicity and their paychecks depend on it.  They will start working their way down the list of sports and sooner or later, someone will say, "what about bodybuilding, it's obvious there are drugs involved.  We have to protect the children".  It will, at some point, happen.  They won't let go of this.

[Moosejay]

Oh it's coming.  Once a "commision" is estabished and you have these people who love the publicity and their paychecks depend on it.  They will start working their way down the list of sports and sooner or later, someone will say, "what about bodybuilding, it's obvious there are drugs involved.  We have to protect the children".  It will, at some point, happen.  They won't let go of this.

Your words ring true, Ferd.

One way or another, in my humble opinion, it will happen. 'Trickle down' effect will prove this to be the words of one who knows.

Mike

[ferd]

It's sad it has come to this.  I'll give you a past experience of mine. I was in my late 20's when I really got into bodybuilding.  I had lifted for a few years but really didn't know what I was doing.  I moved to another state and there was a nice gym that I joined.  I made some friends and they saw I was serious, so before long, I was going to a local doctor every week along with several other members.  We were lined up like cattle.  Everyone got a shot of Deca and a prescription for Dianabol, which was filled at the local Pharmacy (Ciba, which was the original.)  My insurance paid for it.  The doc submited insurance forms stating that I was "lethargic" and they paid for it.  My how things have changed.

[The Squadfather]

It's sad it has come to this.  I'll give you a past experience of mine. I was in my late 20's when I really got into bodybuilding.  I had lifted for a few years but really didn't know what I was doing.  I moved to another state and there was a nice gym that I joined.  I made some friends and they saw I was serious, so before long, I was going to a local doctor every week along with several other members.  We were lined up like cattle.  Everyone got a shot of Deca and a prescription for Dianabol, which was filled at the local Pharmacy (Ciba, which was the original.)  My insurance paid for it.  The doc submited insurance forms stating that I was "lethargic" and they paid for it.  My how things have changed.

[G o a t b o y]

Gh15

I have read a few of your postings and you genuinely seem to be a man 'in the know', with a high level of knowledge and even inside information.

Did you know gh15 believes that aliens from outer space built the pyramids at Giza?


True story! 

[alejandro_torres]

a few time ago, there was a video about maldini(i think) a doctor inyected deca to him and veron and another player in italy, and maldini was filming everything i dont really know why, the video was released in tv and after that nothing really happened(i think), why? because of money! money talks, everyone knew he had done steroids, but he passed the tests...


also to gh15, I played in sub 14, 16, 18 teams in south america, and even here we have at least half the team doing ephedrine, deca, testo, and more things... yes there is also recreational drugs like marihuana and cocaine, but that is like 1 or 2 people of the team. even the coach gives the shots, first they tell you that its b complex, and they warn you not to drink alcohol because it affects your performance. a few time later your performance goes up and then most of the team starts using it. also painkillers, which i dont really know if they are prohibited are used in extreemly high doses by everyone. This happens not only in paraguay, but also in most places i have been/seen a soccer match.

i dont know about other sports, but I know first hand that soccer is full of steroids(and we amateurs, not pros)

also you can pass a drug test so freaking easy, for women under the nails they put salt(if Im not being mistaken) after they pee in the jar, they put their fingers in the urine and the results will be so offfffff the charts that they could not find anything. for men, its a little harder, some actually inyect urine to your sistem for the test( auch hahaha) and some use the salt hiding it on their penis and while they pee, they pour it out on the jar.