Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: myseone on March 22, 2006, 08:32:57 PM
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I remember that when MM2k first came out it was an awesome magazine. Just about everything was discussed in that magazine from Dan Duchaine's advice on steriods, TC Luoma or Mentzer's training advice, advice from the Doctor who had AIDS, etc. what an awesome overall magazine it used to be. I used anxiously wait for the next issue.
Then the magazine to a sharp left turn off a cliff, and went from arguably one of the best Bodybuilding magazines of all time to a weak neutered version of its former self.
I always wondered why they would turn a magazine that was doing so great into one that was a joke. I understood their drive to expand into a bigger market, but during its hey day everyone that I knew who worked out for health, vanity, strength and performance read it.
I came across this audio interview last night about what actually went on at EAS, what happened with Bill Phillips, etc. It's an interesting interview, Here's the link below
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do;jsessionid=77E1CF26C31B9679EC2A71D28113EF61.hydra?id=981410
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MM2M...........was the most talked about/bought magazine there was
finally a magazine "for us!"
then.................... ...............they turned on us and pussied out
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Yeah it was and they did, I remember people at the gym being really angry about the way it turned.
Seemed like a case of, "Okay I've gotten your money now shove off!"
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we used to pour over that magazine
(we couldnt believe they were actually talking about/advocating steroid useage
after so many years of being spoon fed all that Weider crap)
we would read every single page
Bill Phillips was the man!
.finally a real "hardcore mag!"
he took that and turned it into a joke (and himself)
he went "male fitness" on us
didnt he write the "steroid books" as well?( BTiAh = before turning into a homo)
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Up to that point the other magazines were really trying to insult peoples intelligence with their "Our bodybuilders are completely clean, they just use our principles"
Musclemaedia came out of nowhere and cried "BS, this is really whats going on"
I loved that aspect about the old magazine, it gave me that thought of, "okay now someone is being more truthful in this industry".
Then Someone got greedy and jacked up the magazine.
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we used to pour over that magazine
(we couldnt believe they were actually talking about/advocating steroid useage
after so many years of being spoon fed all that Weider crap)
we would read every single page
Bill Phillips was the man!
.finally a real "hardcore mag!"
he took that and turned it into a joke (and himself)
he went "male fitness" on us
didnt he write the "steroid books" as well?( BTiAh = before turning into a homo)
I'm not sure what he wrote now after listening to that interview. The Anabolic Reference Guide was released with his name on it.
He also promoted Dan Duchaine's Underground Steriod Handbook and a great book BodyOpus.
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I still remenber the day when I picked up my first copy of MM2000 at local gym. I started to read it and I was rather surprised that there was a non-biased article on clenbuterol and other hard-core stuff ("Pretty cool... Certainly not just another sugar-coated Weider bullshit rag.."). Of course, I was hooked (I was a hard-core gym rat back then.. but not anymore) and bought every issue of MM2000 I was able to find from local newstands, and I read every issue from cover to cover several times.
However, Phillips clearly deciced to sell his soul to EAS and $$$. Obviously, the mag wasnt too intertesting anymore since there was some sort of EAS or Body-for-Life plug in every corner.. :(
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I can remember waiting for the new issue each month. It was one of the best and than Body for Life and the transformation contests. That was it. It seemed like everybody entered the first year, Bill liked the $$$ and all the percs that went with it and went mainstream. Now it sucks. All the mags were better 10 years ago. Ironman, Flex even Muscular development rocked. Look what the net did. Now we know who won a contest the same day not 6 weeks later. But the whole crew Bill, TC, Dan, Roger even Shawn had some interesting things to say and they were the first to ditch pros too. They were for the majority of minority's who make up the weight game.
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They were for the majority of minority's who make up the weight game.
I think that was the main reason MM2000 was so popular. Weider mags pretty much offered Pro bb stuff for average guys too. Well, the difference between genetics is crystal clear.
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Ironman, Flex even Muscular development rocked.
MD still rocks! ;) However, Weider mags still suck ("Flex: The Drug of Choice For Insomnia"). Ironman contains some interesting info once in a while.
PS. The popular belief (supported by T-mag audio) that EAS had creatine monohydrate first is clearly fallacious. In reality, TWINLAB (Blechman) was first but they had (and still have) gigantic distribution organization and thus it took some time before the bottles actually hit the shelfs.
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Here's a little bit of trivia: Phillips started MM in his mom's garage and "supposedly" used $ from selling gear to finance it. As far as selling out, I really can't be mad at him for making a huge amount of money. I CAN be mad that I was stupid enough to believe HMB really would "feel like deca."
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We have to give Phillips dude some credit; thanks to his hype regarding EASīs product-specific university studies, other companies also started to sponsor such studies.
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Did Phillips ever make any money with all that Phosphagain-betagen-HMB stuff?
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Did Phillips ever make any money with all that Phosphagain-betagen-HMB stuff?
??? ??? ???
PS. Did Gates ever make any money with all that Microsoft stuff? :D
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Mainstream overall fitness is where the really big bucks are and sadly Bill P went that way after he got his name on the map from us in hardcore bodybuilding. YUP it was a great mag.
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Was the best mag.....talked about gear & cycles.
No bullshit articles & didn't have 3/4 of the magazine filled with ads.
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Here's a little bit of trivia: Phillips started MM in his mom's garage and "supposedly" used $ from selling gear to finance it. As far as selling out, I really can't be mad at him for making a huge amount of money. I CAN be mad that I was stupid enough to believe HMB really would "feel like deca."
A lot of organizations or men rise to prominance via breaking the law first then supposedly going clean later; the were'nt the Kennedy's selling booze during prohibition. Bill just transitioned intelligently I guess.
HMB was very expensive, produced poor results and lasted all of 10 days for a bottle. They used to compare a stack of creatine and HMB to Deca, funny stuff.
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We have to give Phillips dude some credit; thanks to his hype regarding EASīs product-specific university studies, other companies also started to sponsor such studies.
There is a problem here; If a manufacturer sponsors a particular university or lab to test a product, then the tester might feel the need to make positive comments about the product, due to the money being received and potential monies to be received in the future. I would rather see third party, unrelated tests done.
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Mainstream overall fitness is where the really big bucks are and sadly Bill P went that way after he got his name on the map from us in hardcore bodybuilding. YUP it was a great mag.
Yeah I agree with that, I still think that the mag did'nt have to take the turn it did though, they could have left some of the hardcoreness to it. How many people have bought Flex magazine or MD over the years, people who are'nt even bodybuilders, people who train for fitness, and these magazines are or were fairly hardcore.
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There is a problem here; If a manufacturer sponsors a particular university or lab to test a product, then the tester might feel the need to make positive comments about the product, due to the money being received and potential monies to be received in the future. I would rather see third party, unrelated tests done.
Third party, unrelated studies are best. However, supplement company-sponsored studies published in well-known peer-reviewed journals are generally just fine. The key here is the peer-review process, ie. 2 or 3 scientists in the same area review the manuscript and then send their reports to Editor-in-Chief.
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There is shit all money in bodybuilding and less and less as up go up the scale of "hardcore".
So Bill did the right thing and went the opposite way.
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There is shit all money in bodybuilding and less and less as up go up the scale of "hardcore".
So Bill did the right thing and went the opposite way.
I tend to disagree with this contention. Why he didnt simply decide to publish a "sister-magazine" called Fitness Media or something.
Also, if you ask some strength-power athlete (other than bodybuilder or powerlifter) where he/she gets his info on nutrition, supplementation, etc., he/she will also likely say "from bb mags" (especially MD) :)
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I was just thinking about MM2000. I loved that mag! I am still pist they went the fitness route. However, to some extent, MM2000 kinda mutated into present day Muscular Development. Without MM2000, I don;t think MD would be as great today.
My advice is for MD to see how much we all liked MM2000 and kinda adapt to some of its features. Cut out about 100 pages of the same damn pictures that are used over and over, and put more "hardcore" topics in there. Why did the monthly steroid profile stop???
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Cut out about 100 pages of the same damn pictures that are used over and over, and put more "hardcore" topics in there.
I agree.
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My advice is for MD to see how much we all liked MM2000 and kinda adapt to some of its features.
Excluding contest coverage, MD is very similar to the original MM2000 (i.e., uncensored, cutting-edge stuff) but we have clearly more qualified authors than M2000 had. However, we also offer contest coverages, so you will get best of the BOTH worlds.
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I really miss reading Dchaine's column. Before anyone chimes in, I know he was wrong half the time; I just loved his writng style. I really enjoyed reading his articles...
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Here's a pretty interesting read about Billip Phillips from Outside Magazine.
http://outside.away.com/outside/features/200309/200309_mr_big_1.html
Phillips was through with pro bodybuilding himself, but he knew what the muscle market needed: straight talk about training, diet, drugs, and motivation. He would take on the big boys, like Joe Weider, who he believed played a subtle shell game with the public. In magazines like Flex and Muscle & Fitness, Weider dodged the steroid topic entirely, suggesting that bodybuilders nurtured their freakish physiques solely by pumping iron and sucking down protein. Phillips knew you didn't get there without drugs, and he intended to say so.
"Phillips is a smart guy," says Todd. "Writing to the steroid crowd was a dead-end road. He knew you could make a certain amount of money building monster trucks, but you could make a whole lot more building Ford F-150s."
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Did Phillips ever make any money with all that Phosphagain-betagen-HMB stuff?
Yeah he made major $$$ but ALL of those supplements sucked donkey balls. Creatine(not the one with the kool aid in it), was the only one that worked. Phillips is a real scumbag. He put out his "supplement review" book and guess which supplements got the best review? What E.A.S of course. He didn't let you know that he covertly bought the damn company. I hope that rich lil midget chokes and dies on a couple of his HMB capsules >:(
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Excluding contest coverage, MD is very similar to the original MM2000 (i.e., uncensored, cutting-edge stuff) but we have clearly more qualified authors than M2000 had. However, we also offer contest coverages, so you will get best of the BOTH worlds.
Yeah the magazine (MD) is more in your face than most others, thats for sure. Whats up with that Greg Valentino chap though, not Oxford English school educated I suppose.
I would also assume many others would like to see training articles written for non pros; the novices and intermediate trainees many if not most of the advice that MD prints on training would kill a male silver back gorilla (to paraphase Arthur Jones). This is actually true of all of the big magazines on the shelves nowadays. Ironman (10 years ago) had awesome training advice but now they are pushing that X-rep nonsense.
I think readers would really appreciate some real world training advice instead of the advice of the proffesional bodybuilders. I would say that many pros don't actually know how to train that well (not trying to be rude) but due to genetics and drugs can grow from training programs that would shrink most people.
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Here's a pretty interesting read about Billip Phillips from Outside Magazine.
http://outside.away.com/outside/features/200309/200309_mr_big_1.html
"Phillips is a smart guy," says Todd. "Writing to the steroid crowd was a dead-end road. He knew you could make a certain amount of money building monster trucks, but you could make a whole lot more building Ford F-150s."
I also think that he made the right business moved in terms of changing his market. I do think that he could have grown just as well or more if he had made two magazines though (1 hardcore one softcore); he probably reasoned that making two magazines would require two focuses and went where the gold was seen.
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Yeah he made major $$$ but ALL of those supplements sucked donkey balls. Creatine(not the one with the kool aid in it), was the only one that worked. Phillips is a real scumbag. He put out his "supplement review" book and guess which supplements got the best review? What E.A.S of course. He didn't let you know that he covertly bought the damn company. I hope that rich lil midget chokes and dies on a couple of his HMB capsules >:(
Yeah Creatine is the all time most powerful (natural) supplement; Ripped fuel was no joke either I think that Twinlab -they will probably deny this- put a high amount of Ephedrine and caffeine in their bottles. That stuff worked but had some side effects.
HMB was terrible, one of the worst supplements of all time right up their with Weider weight gain wafers.
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I think readers would really appreciate some real world training advice instead of the advice of the proffesional bodybuilders.
I agree.
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He put out his "supplement review" book and guess which supplements got the best review?
Yeah.. his Supplement "Review" books were riduculously biased, especially the first one. :'(
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Hey Manninen, I forgot to tell you something:
MD fucking blows monkey nuts. It's just as 'boring' as FLEX mag or any of the other ones and offers NO real-world information to gym rats. It's full of 'entertaining' articles about crap you can find out anywhere and tries so hard to be 'hardcore' that it's kinda funny.
MD hit it's peak right around the time they got rid of the chicks on the covers. By the time they got rid of them completely, the mag was as about as controversial as plastic vs. paper.
MD simply mentions the hardcore and it's 'pro articles' are as fake as hell. In fact the guy who ghost wrote one of Dexter Jackson's articles ripped off a FLEX article by Chris Aceto almost WORD for WORD. So now you see where they go when they run out of Valentino Poo stories and Goya Beans.
I think the market is completely ready for a new incarnation of MM2000. Take a bit from MD, FLEX and Planet Muscle (and the Chef Fillipone articles from MMAG) and NOTHING from TNation and you've got a winner.
Until then, who gives a rat's ass what you read for 'entertainment'...fooling yourself into thinking MD is 'hardcore' is hillarious.
How hardcore can a mag that you can buy in Walmart be?? It CAN'T. So I won't thank Blechman for 'keeping it real' when really he's selling a sham of a mag to fools who don't know the difference...when a mag goes boring to sell to the masses, that's where I stop paying for the goods. MD did that a LONG time ago.
..and ps, it was ALWAYS the shittiest mag back in the day....retarded articles, way to many ads and what the hell was with the whole ALL NATURAL MD?...please. That ALONE should show you the hipocrisy of MD's mag.
I'm taking a page out of Valentino's book and am now WIPING MY ASS with all the post no chicks back issues of MD....but that only lasted one shit, cause the crummy black ink on the pages comes off just like the fucking newspapers you read everyday!
MD really stands for Most Dull.
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...what the hell was with the whole ALL NATURAL MD?...please. That ALONE should show you the hipocrisy of MD's mag.
MD was owned by TWINLAB back then.
Thank you for your "feedback". :)
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When did Muscle Media go "mainstream"?
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MD was owned by TWINLAB back then.
Thank you for your "feedback". :)
...what's your point? Blechman's family OWNED TWINLAB!...you're blaming the direction on the magazine on an affiliation with Twinlab? Laughable. It was no better than MMag was then and now with the Muscletech connection.
MD sucks and ruined what it had for a brief period...a mag that was entertaining, informative, but really, never 'hardcore'. MuscleMedia 2000 was hardcore.
Why don't you prove me wrong and show me an article in MD that gave readers REAL info on cycles? Other than the articles from the author of that E Book Creating the Perfect Beast, not ONE. Shit, you've got Chad Nicholls on the staff and he's doing contest reviews?!?!?...please. He made allusions to ONE cycle in his 2nd or 3rd article and that was IT.
The perfect bbing magazine doesn't exist, but I know exactly what would be contained within it to make it so. And the only thing it would lack was the immediate contest results you get on the web.
Would it make cash, I'm not sure...but I'm sure as hell not going to thank Blechman and his boring ass magazine for being 'hardcore' when really it's bland and shallow like the rest of the mags out there today.
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"And the only thing it would lack was the immediate contest results you get on the web."
Clearly, youīre wearing some kind of Anti-MD blinders. Anyway, if I would be MDīs Editor-in-Chief, I would dramatically cut contest coverage..
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Muscle media was a great mag, it,s contributors were all bill philips drug associates when they ran the biggest black market steriod ring in the US, the turning piont for the mag was when bill philips turned his back on his roots and groundings (bodybuilding) and tried to elevate the EAS brand to a household mainstream brand , thus the editorial change in the mag, the original mag was aimed purly at hrdcor bodybuilding because at that stage that was where bill philips bread and butter was , this aided in the launch of eas,s first big money spinner, Phosphagen ( creatine) as time went on bill philips slowly moved away from this market and burnt alot of people along the way including his brother, to the piont bill philips hired full time security due to the numerous threats he received due to his higher than mighty attuded , he was also a very big GHB user and many a time collasped at parties and had to be carried out by his security detail , but yes the original mag was excellent !!
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I tend to disagree with this contention. Why he didnt simply decide to publish a "sister-magazine" called Fitness Media or something.
Also, if you ask some strength-power athlete (other than bodybuilder or powerlifter) where he/she gets his info on nutrition, supplementation, etc., he/she will also likely say "from bb mags" (especially MD) :)
You don't get bestseller books being known as a fitness/steroid guru. He had to dissolve his connection with steroids. He wanted to be associated with hollywood and all that.
Nor is it easy or smart to double your workload or take a less hands on role in one of the magazines.
And I'm sure if I asked athletes now they would say personal and friends experience, strength coaches, and the internet.
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Muscle media was a great mag, it,s contributors were all bill philips drug associates when they ran the biggest black market steriod ring in the US, the turning piont for the mag was when bill philips turned his back on his roots and groundings (bodybuilding) and tried to elevate the EAS brand to a household mainstream brand , thus the editorial change in the mag, the original mag was aimed purly at hrdcor bodybuilding because at that stage that was where bill philips bread and butter was , this aided in the launch of eas,s first big money spinner, Phosphagen ( creatine) as time went on bill philips slowly moved away from this market and burnt alot of people along the way including his brother, to the piont bill philips hired full time security due to the numerous threats he received due to his higher than mighty attuded , he was also a very big GHB user and many a time collasped at parties and had to be carried out by his security detail , but yes the original mag was excellent !!
I did'nt know Phillips was that raw, but it does'nt really suprise me; an insiders view point is definitely different from someone on the outside
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EAS was like a cult they sold every formula under the sun,v2g,okg,mrp's which are good,hmb,cytovol just to name a few.muscletech has now taken over their hype.they had some facility and gym at corporate office in colorado .
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EAS was like a cult they sold every formula under the sun,v2g,okg,mrp's which are good,hmb,cytovol just to name a few.muscletech has now taken over their hype.they had some facility and gym at corporate office in colorado .
I don't think that Muscletech had the same effect though, possibly in the beginning, but now more people feel that their products are way over priced, not to mention their continuation of before and after pictures.
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True muscletech's before and after pic's of even non pro's before and after are funny ,you can tell they either competed or have in past and get in shape natuarally or assisted ::)
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True muscletech's before and after pic's of even non pro's before and after are funny ,you can tell they either competed or have in past and get in shape natuarally or assisted ::)
Yeah hilarious stuff in those dar hills,
The classic was the Lee Priest offseason shot and then 3 months later so ripped that you could see his heart beating.
Does anyone remember the Cybergenics supplement box, Franco Santorellio used to be their athlete. That stuff sold really well, and did'nt work, amazing. I think that someone could probably pass wind in a box, package it nicely, promote it aggressively with the right personalities and it would sell extremely well. This is not limited to bodybuilding but done with everything from Soda to Prada.
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funny to listen to TC talk about EAS being made up of a bunch of people who really didn't know what they were doing...What BS and alot of jealously...1/2 billion dollar companies don't happen by accident...Phillips had a vision but if you listen to TC, he makes it sound like it was mostly his doing...Totally silly...
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Muscle media was a great mag, it,s contributors were all bill philips drug associates when they ran the biggest black market steriod ring in the US, the turning piont for the mag was when bill philips turned his back on his roots and groundings (bodybuilding) and tried to elevate the EAS brand to a household mainstream brand , thus the editorial change in the mag, the original mag was aimed purly at hrdcor bodybuilding because at that stage that was where bill philips bread and butter was , this aided in the launch of eas,s first big money spinner, Phosphagen ( creatine) as time went on bill philips slowly moved away from this market and burnt alot of people along the way including his brother, to the piont bill philips hired full time security due to the numerous threats he received due to his higher than mighty attuded , he was also a very big GHB user and many a time collasped at parties and had to be carried out by his security detail , but yes the original mag was excellent !!
Believe it or not, Phillips had good intentions. There's more to life than catering a magazine to a steroid-ring-crowd, his new field was focused on general health, where all of ours should be in the first place. You shouldn't sacrifice your kidneys or your livelihood just to have more muscle, that muscle won't amount to shit when your older and your looking to live as long as possible, that's why bodybuilding is full of incompetent individuals.
Coicedentally, the number of competent individuals in the general health crowd far exceeded those in the steroid crowd, thus not only did Phillips make a change for the better, he also become more wealthy because of it.
People want to improve their performance and endurance, go rock climbing, etc, which is what Phillips catered to. "looking better" is one way street, what's going to happen when you age and you don't look the same?
That's why Phillips made the switch, he wasn't going to dedicate his life promoting controlled substances.
All of that Propaganda surrounding Phillips and his brother was pushed by Testosterone nation because of the distraught feelings they felt over their terminated relationship with EAS and Phillips. Instead of moving on and improving themsleves for the better, the writers chose to relive their past ways and create testosterone nation while flaming Phillips in the process. It's unfortunate those same writers and promoters of that website will come to the same conclusion Phillips made earlier when they refused to listen.... Steroids isn't the end-all-be all of the world. Bodybuilding means jack shit at the end of life, it's a stepping stone for other things. If you think having bigger biceps will make you a better individual than you'll never be satisfied...
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Believe it or not, Phillips had good intentions. There's more to life than catering a magazine to a steroid-ring-crowd, his new field was focused on general health, where all of ours should be in the first place. You shouldn't sacrifice your kidneys or your livelihood just to have more muscle, that muscle won't amount to shit when your older and your looking to live as long as possible, that's why bodybuilding is full of incompetent individuals.
Coicedentally, the number of competent individuals in the general health crowd far exceeded those in the steroid crowd, thus not only did Phillips make a change for the better, he also become more wealthy because of it.
People want to improve their performance and endurance, go rock climbing, etc, which is what Phillips catered to. "looking better" is one way street, what's going to happen when you age and you don't look the same?
That's why Phillips made the switch, he wasn't going to dedicate his life promoting controlled substances.
All of that Propaganda surrounding Phillips and his brother was pushed by Testosterone nation because of the distraught feelings they felt over their terminated relationship with EAS and Phillips. Instead of moving on and improving themsleves for the better, the writers chose to relive their past ways and create testosterone nation while flaming Phillips in the process. It's unfortunate those same writers and promoters of that website will come to the same conclusion Phillips made earlier when they refused to listen.... Steroids isn't the end-all-be all of the world. Bodybuilding means jack shit at the end of life, it's a stepping stone for other things. If you think having bigger biceps will make you a better individual than you'll never be satisfied...
exactly...You think Tom Prince isn't thinking the same thing...I bet if he could go back in time :-\
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EAS was like a cult they sold every formula under the sun,v2g,okg,mrp's which are good,hmb,cytovol just to name a few.muscletech has now taken over their hype.they had some facility and gym at corporate office in colorado .
Actually they sold only a handful of formulations, most containing creatine monohydrate and/or HMB. They also had (and still has) that great tasting MRP, Myoplex. However, the current MRPs containing whole grains (rather than maltodextrine) are superior to the original MRPs.
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exactly...You think Tom Prince isn't thinking the same thing...I bet if he could go back in time :-\
What about Mike Matarazzo? TRIPLE-BYPASS SURGERY in his late 30s!!! Now, the only thing massive about him is his hospital bills.
I can't possibly imagine having that procedure done to me 5 years from now. I love having muscles, but a 20-inch arm ain't worth that. I don't care what anyone says.
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Here's an audio interview with TC Luoma on the history and demise of MM2K
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do;jsessionid=99050F14B772EFC30F23FEFE89DA84DC.hydra?id=981410 (http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do;jsessionid=99050F14B772EFC30F23FEFE89DA84DC.hydra?id=981410)
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Here's an audio interview with TC Luoma on the history and demise of MM2K
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do;jsessionid=99050F14B772EFC30F23FEFE89DA84DC.hydra?id=981410 (http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do;jsessionid=99050F14B772EFC30F23FEFE89DA84DC.hydra?id=981410)
No shit, Sherlock?! ::)