Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Man of Steel on December 31, 2008, 12:16:00 PM
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::)
I use free weights and machines everytime I'm in the gym. All this "our grandfather's generation never used a machine...this is when workouts were hardcore." AHAHAAHAHAH!!! Absolute horseshit. Put any of the hardcores from the grandfather generation (when they were our age) in a gym with Hammer Strength equipment and every other machine we use today and they'd be all over it.
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Some one piss in your lucky charms manofshortshorts?
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Some one piss in your lucky charms manofshortshorts?
;D
"free" weights = overrated and a waste of time.
Preacher curl best example. Bar & plates = waste of time, stack machine = better.
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Some one piss in your lucky charms manofshortshorts?
:D
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These old worn joints scream machines when i happen to walk in a gym ;D
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Exactly.
I am pretty muscular and people always ask me about working out. Guys who look like they barely work out will tell me that they just can't get results with machines. It's the same shit- moving heavy weights. There is no way you are not gonna get stronger or bigger if you do it consistently.
There is value in free weights, though. When I first started lifting, I focused on safety and stuck solely to machines. My strength increased, but I was surprised at the disparity between what I could lift on machines vs. free weights. I had trouble balancing moderate weight on bps even though I did pretty decent numbers on the smith and stack. However, I feel that machine work helps me break through barriers a lot more effectively.
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weight is weight bros
mass 04 approved
no emails/pms
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weight is weight bros
mass 04 approved
no emails/pms
Can I PM you about this?
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Exactly.
I am pretty muscular and people always ask me about working out. Guys who look like they barely work out will tell me that they just can't get results with machines. It's the same shit- moving heavy weights. There is no way you are not gonna get stronger or bigger if you do it consistently.
There is value in free weights, though. When I first started lifting, I focused on safety and stuck solely to machines. My strength increased, but I was surprised at the disparity between what I could lift on machines vs. free weights. I had trouble balancing moderate weight on bps even though I did pretty decent numbers on the smith and stack. However, I feel that machine work helps me break through barriers a lot more effectively.
you sound like a monster, any pics posted?
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Most people who post on here say that they use machines as part of their workouts
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its all good ;D
love hammer machines ;D
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Exactly.
I am pretty muscular and people always ask me about working out. Guys who look like they barely work out will tell me that they just can't get results with machines. It's the same shit- moving heavy weights. There is no way you are not gonna get stronger or bigger if you do it consistently.
There is value in free weights, though. When I first started lifting, I focused on safety and stuck solely to machines. My strength increased, but I was surprised at the disparity between what I could lift on machines vs. free weights. I had trouble balancing moderate weight on bps even though I did pretty decent numbers on the smith and stack. However, I feel that machine work helps me break through barriers a lot more effectively.
Night and day when it comes to getting bigger and stronger, when it comes to machines v's free weights.
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;D
"free" weights = overrated and a waste of time.
Preacher curl best example. Bar & plates = waste of time, stack machine = better.
Epic truth for many exercises. Free weight definatley have their place still, however why not at least partially take advanatge of modern technology. I can see it now, some 160lb college student with his sleveless shirt cut down all the way to the waist on the side with his 100g protein/creatine/waxymaze shake with him saying "bro, free weights are the only way your gonna put on size :)"
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its all good ;D
love hammer machines ;D
I get a better pump in my chest after a heavy set on the Hammer Machine, it just isolates better.
Years of ego lifting with the bench left me with modest gains, and alot of sore joints.
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Epic truth for many exercises. Free weight definatley have their place still, however why not at least partially take advanatge of modern technology. I can see it now, some 160lb college student with his sleveless shirt cut down all the way to the waist on the side with his 100g protein/creatine/waxymaze shake with him saying "bro, free weights are the only way your gonna put on size :)"
Yeah and a tap out warrior right next to him!
OOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHH BROOOOOOOOOOOTHER!!!
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Fuck hammer strength equipment. Every time I'm in the gym I see the same douche bags putting 3-4 plates a side on meanwhile
they can barely bench 185. BTW, their seated row sucks as well. I don't wanna hear shit about Dorian using it either. He built his
back off heavy rows and deadlifts. If you're trying to "isolate" your chest it doesn't make any sense doing a pressing movement
that involves the triceps and delts.
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Fuck hammer strength equipment. Every time I'm in the gym I see the same douche bags putting 3-4 plates a side on meanwhile
they can barely bench 185.
::)
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You can roll your eyes all you want. It's not gonna change what I've seen over the last 10 years in every gym I've been in.
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You can roll your eyes all you want. It's not gonna change what I've seen over the last 10 years in every gym I've been in.
I am just calling bullshit on your statement, if you can lift 4 plates on the Hammer Strength, you can damn sure bench 185 with the uptmost ease. I'm not going to use all the cliche, lame, overused, getbig phrases, but you are wrong on this one.
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You can roll your eyes all you want. It's not gonna change what I've seen over the last 10 years in every gym I've been in.
Settle down "cock-of-anus", it's not that serious... 4 plates.... I frequently do that and bench twice the amount you mentioned for reps...
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i'd say 4 plates per side on the Hammer Strength bench press is equal to about 275-285 on a barbell flat bench.
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You can roll your eyes all you want. It's not gonna change what I've seen over the last 10 years in every gym I've been in.
::)
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i'd say 4 plates per side on the Hammer Strength bench press is equal to about 275-285 on a barbell flat bench.
Agreed. 275 to a tad over 300.
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You can roll your eyes all you want. It's not gonna change what I've seen over the last 10 years in every gym I've been in.
I don't anyone here is saying that hammer strength machines plate per plate are as difficult as free weights are. However they are effective if used correctly.
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i'd say 4 plates per side on the Hammer Strength bench press is equal to about 275-285 on a barbell flat bench.
you're nuts... I've got a couple friends who can do 4 plates and can barely press 225. I don't hate machines
there's some good equipment out there unfortunately it ain't in my gym.
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My thinking is this, for "size" you're telling me if you put 4 plates on a hammer strength machine and knock out 3-4 good sets, you're not going to grow? As long as you have progressive resistance you'll grow IMO. Weight is weight.
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you're nuts...
QuakerOats, you wanna set this fool straight, or shall I?
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you're nuts...
not really, i've seen it a lot, it's true, test it out if you don't believe it, to say that 4 plates per side on the Hammer is equal to a mere 185 is ridicuolus.
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My thinking is this, for "size" you're telling me if you put 4 plates on a hammer strength machine and knock out 3-4 good sets, you're not going to grow? As long as you have progressive resistance you'll grow IMO. Weight is weight.
Exactly! I mean you body doesn't sit there and say. Body: "Hey brain, what's he doing," brain "He's doing hammer strength, not free weights" Body: Well fuck him then, instruct the muscles not to grow" Doesn't work that way.
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My thinking is this, for "size" you're telling me if you put 4 plates on a hammer strength machine and knock out 3-4 good sets, you're not going to grow? As long as you have progressive resistance you'll grow IMO. Weight is weight.
exactly, i was reading an old MD and they had a shoulder training article by Cormier in there and he said the exact same thing.
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exactly, i was reading an old MD and they had a shoulder training article by Cormier in there and he said the exact same thing.
"People say you can't grow from Hammer Strength. Put 4 plates on each size and see if you don't grow. Please" - Chris Cormier
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exactly, i was reading an old MD and they had a shoulder training article by Cormier in there and he said the exact same thing.
hahah that's where i got it from. It had Lee Priest on the cover ;D
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hahah that's where i got it from. It had Lee Priest on the cover ;D
Yeah it was around 2003 or 2004, great quote.
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hahah that's where i got it from. It had Lee Priest on the cover ;D
he's right too, personally i like barbell shoulder presses but if you think that pressing 4 plates per side of the Hammer Strength shoulder press isn't going to get you big you're insane, EVERY guy i've ever seen using big weight with GOOD FORM on those machines was huge.
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What difference does it make what Cormier says? Is he a expert on weightlifting? Is there any science behind anything that
a bodybuilder or a ghost writer says in a bodybuilding magazine? I can't believe anybody takes any of the shit they read in
those rags seriously... I agree with the fact that if you can press 4 plates per side on a hammer strength machine for 8-12
reps you will have some size to you.
you just agreed with everything we've been saying with the second half of your post, look, i think free weights are superior FOR ME but machines are an awesome tool no doubt about it.
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What difference does it make what Cormier says? Is he a expert on weightlifting? Is there any science behind anything that
Bro, wtf are you talking about??? I guarantee Chris Cormier has been to more weightlifting seminars that you have.
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If i had to pick, i'd use free weights. They make up the majority of my w/o, but to say that machines don't build muscle is stupid IMO.
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Bro, wtf are you talking about??? I guarantee Chris Cormier has been to more weightlifting seminars that you have.
not to mention that there's video of him flat pressing a pair of 200 pound db's for reps and barbell inclining 405 for 8-10 reps.
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i have not used a machine in a long time, i guess you may gain some size, the problem is the majority of those who use machines are recreational or weekend lifters and they will never get any size even if they switched to free weights.
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free weights stimulate more muscle fibers because of the balance >:(
undeniable fact or = cat deniable ???
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Since the weight is preloaded it's hard to say.
I doubt someone able to rep out with 6 plates can do the same thing with 270lbs on the flat bench.
I'm sure they add muscle/strength, though.
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Bro, wtf are you talking about??? I guarantee Chris Cormier has been to more weightlifting seminars that you have.
Weightlifting seminars or bodybuilding seminars?
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free weights stimulate more muscle fibers because of the balance >:(
undeniable fact or = cat deniable ???
Too broad of a statement. There are MANY other factors involved.
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free weights stimulate more muscle fibers because of the balance >:(
undeniable fact or = cat deniable ???
You have to recruit more stabilizers but it's possible 'Hammer Strength' isolate major muscles to a better extent.
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free weights stimulate more muscle fibers because of the balance >:(
undeniable fact or = cat deniable ???
Not to mention the affect it has on your stabilizers, tendons and cns.
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Too broad of a statement. There are MANY other factors involved.
lets say you do DB press for delts with 90lbs dumbells and load up a machine with 2 45s on each side.
8 reps on both, I guarantee the dbs will be harder!
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You have to recruit more stabilizers but it's possible 'Hammer Strength' isolate major muscles to a better extent.
Let me explain something to you people. You're not isolating any paticular muscle when doing a pressing movement especially
your chest whether you're using free weights or a machine. The majority of the bench press is triceps and shoulders.
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lets say you do DB press for delts with 90lbs dumbells and load up a machine with 2 45s on each side.
8 reps on both, I guarantee the dbs will be harder!
The dbs will be 'harder' because small shoulder muscles will exhaust themselves stabilizing the weight. A lot of people forget the arm is only connected by one true joint, the rest are physiological. They're not the same but Hammer type machines probably isolate the muscles a little more.
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well i believe 90% of getbiggers also said they would not fuck tara reid after they say the cellulite on her ass.
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well i believe 90% of getbiggers also said they would not fuck tara reid after they say the cellulite on her ass.
A lot of them probably find pretty women 'icky'.
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well i believe 90% of getbiggers also said they would not fuck tara reid after they say the cellulite on her ass.
Taylor, those same guys are just trying to put up a front, to lead you to believe, that they have something hotter than her going.
Tara Reid has a beautiful face just hit it missionary, or any other position where it's basically face to face, and you won't have any problems getting it up.
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machines are useless
free weights have some use
bodyweight is the way to go
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how about a treadmill?
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you can check my training log. i use machines very rarely, save for the occasional pulldown or tricep pushdown to flush some blood into the muscles at the end. it has nothing to do with thinking it's "manlier" or whatever, i just don't like using machines.
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you can check my training log. i use machines very rarely, save for the occasional pulldown or tricep pushdown to flush some blood into the muscles at the end. it has nothing to do with thinking it's "manlier" or whatever, i just don't like using machines.
That's your preference and you're entitled to it. The issue here is whether or not machines contribute to results.
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That's your preference and you're entitled to it. The issue here is whether or not machines contribute to results.
i was just answering the initial proposal.
as for machines and their effectiveness, it depends on your goals and how you use them i guess. want to stimulate muscles? sure, they can be a pretty good method. for strength building i can't imagine it'd make much sense to do a 1-3RM on a cybex machine chest press or the back raise. at the same time they work phenomenally for light assistance work on any little areas that may be lagging. for sports, there's nothing to replace power cleans or squats. all the cable pulldowns and leg curls in the world won't do what you need done.
that said, if your choice of gym is to either hit up one with all the freeweights you want or all the machines you want, hit the machines. greater variance, greater muscle activation, etc.
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Best machines are lat pulldown/Tri extension and cable row IMO
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agreed. it can be hard to get pullups or BB rows to hit just where you need them and my elbows won't stand for any free bar/DB extensions these days, so i've been cycling both of those into my workouts. other than that i can get all my hamstring work from SLDLs, GM's, and DB swings.
oh, i admit that sets of 15 on pull-throughs in the cable setup is pretty damn nice too.
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and best way to work to a chin is by doing pulldowns...pushdowns feel great sometimes and cable rows are fantastic.
io started doing BB rows my upperbody totally parallel to ground...shit i get a great pump
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over the last month or two i have found that the only way, the best way, for me to get all ovber and deep into my chest fibeers, is using machine. the best ones for my chest are seated bench, cable crossover, machine flys, cable crossover using the bottom pin. but i still do flat bench, occasionally incline and decline too
\i think the point is that both machiens and free weights have a place in most everybodies trainign
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"Cross of Iron" will you please explain to everyone on this board how you can isolate your chest with a pressing movement without involving your triceps?
BTW, congrats, that just went down as the most retarded post of the week!!
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"Cross of Iron" will you please explain to everyone on this board how you can isolate your chest with a pressing movement without involving your triceps?
BTW, congrats, that just went down as the most retarded post of the week!!
You fucking moron! I said you can't isolate any one muscle when doing a press. Did you actually read my post?
Thank you for the compliment. I am indeed honored to be congratulated by the king of fucking retarded posts.
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The honor is all yours.
BTW, sorry, I miss read it :(
I'll just carry on like the dumb fuck I am!!
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You fucking moron! I said you can't isolate any one muscle when doing a press. Did you actually read my post?
Thank you for the compliment. I am indeed honored to be congratulated by the king of fucking retarded posts.
HAHA! Not only does Coach get owned by Milos on a daily basis, he also gets owned by the resident runt/horses ass of the site "cross-of-iron"
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you can definitely get the majorit of the tension onto the chest and make the shoulders and triceps have such little tension that they arent really stimulated or exhausted at all. and that is all thats reall meant by "isolation". so the point is moot.
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Cross of Iron, your title was just relinquished to tbomz.
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I don't even think about "free weights" vs "machines" thats so first year training sort of thought...
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HAHA! Not only does Coach get owned by Milos on a daily basis, he also gets owned by the resident runt/horses ass of the site "cross-of-iron"
Apparently because you don't agree with me that the strength gains you make using hammer strength equipment doesn't cross over
to free weight bench I am the resident runt/horses ass of the site. ok... I will make my point one more time in case somebody misunderstood what I said. The people I see on a daily basis loading a bunch of plates on the hammer strength equipment do so
because they are so weak with the free weights. BTW, I speak from experience...When I first began training my bench was absolutely pathetic...even for a beginner so I used the hammer strength incline,flat,decline and wide because I could put so many plates on. It was all about ego as it is with all the rest of these people. Instead of being humble and working on my weaknesses I spent a long period of time spinning my wheels.
The majority of misinformation was from bodybuilding magazines. I still remember reading that if your bench is lacking you should pre-exhaust with flys...what a bunch of fucking rubbish. Tell ya what, keep reading your bb magazines and following their training advice. If after a decade you're still benching between 200-300lbs you might think of changing something up. People can come here and lie all they want about how much they press and deadlift but at the end of the day you have to look in the mirror and live with yourself. I know there are some strong guys here but the majority are some sad pathetic girls.
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if your a bodybuilder and you want to build muscle, not strength, and you have a proportionately weak chest, then pre exhausting your chest with a isolation movement before moving ont a compound movement is a GREAT idea.
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Cross of Iron, your title was just relinquished to tbomz.
I honestly don't think people know what the word isolation means. Maybe he's referring to the mind muscle connection.
When doing face pulls I close my eyes and focus on my rear delts and get a good pump but that doesn't mean I'm not
using my forearms, biceps and muscles in the upper back.
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I honestly don't think people know what the word isolation means. Maybe he's referring to the mind muscle connection.
When doing face pulls I close my eyes and focus on my rear delts and get a good pump but that doesn't mean I'm not
using my forearms, biceps and muscles in the upper back.
you can definitely get the majorit of the tension onto the chest and make the shoulders and triceps have such little tension that they arent really stimulated or exhausted at all. and that is all thats reall meant by "isolation". so the point is moot.
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if your a bodybuilder and you want to build muscle, not strength, and you have a proportionately weak chest, then pre exhausting your chest with a isolation movement before moving ont a compound movement is a GREAT idea.
I'm not going to argue with you imbeciles about the correlation between strength and muscle gains. Just because there are a small
number of genetic freaks who respond incredibly well to aas and other drugs while training with high volume and semi-heavy weight
doesn't mean YOU will. BTW, In my post I stated that the magazine said if you have a WEAK BENCH you should use an isolation movement first before benching. That is a STUPID idea but I wouldn't expect you to know that since you obviously have no idea what you're talking about. If you're weak at the bottom portion of the bench it is not cable or dumbbell flys that you need.
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Tbombz,
The bench press is a compound movement. You can't compare face pulls to the bench press... ok?
all i was saying is that in bodybuilding "isolation" doesnt mea complete and total isolation, it just means getting the majority of the stress on the desired muscle and leaving only so much stress on the secondary muscles that they arent really stressed at all.
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I think free weights are superior to machines, but I don't think machines are useless....I think they're fantastic. I'll try all kinds of machines in the gym and find the ones I respond best with and use those consistently inconjuction with free weights. If someone prefers all free weights that's cool. I don't think someone should train with machines exclusively.....I think a combination of free weights and machines can build tremendous results. If you're healthy then by all means utilize an all free weight regimen, but my contention is that the majority of posters on Getbig that say "I never use machines...only free weights" are 100% full of shit. I've trained in health clubs and dark, dank dungeons and everywhere I go...from the most pansy to the most hardcore...at some point everyone trains with machines...period. Again, the only reason our grandfathers only trained with free weights is cause they didn't have anything else.
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I'm gettin great workouts using machines in most cases. In some cases the muscle's gettin hit harder than with weights.
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I'm gettin great workouts using machines in most cases. In some cases the muscle's gettin hit harder than with weights.
Goin heavy on the ol' Bowflex are ya ;D?
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Goin heavy on the ol' Bowflex are ya ;D?
Bowflex obsessed lol whatever works for ya coach! ;)
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i have a feeling that people would get a BIG surprise if they saw a pic of Pumpster, something tells me he's a big mofo.
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i have a feeling that people would get a BIG surprise if they saw a pic of Pumpster, something tells me he's a big mofo.
Thanks bro. I do still look like a BB in my late 40s, still go heavy on any exercise that the joints will allow, what more can ya ask? :D
Tomorrow will be a serious tanning day.. 8)
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Thanks bro. I do still look like a BB in my late 40s, still go heavy on any exercise that the joints will allow, what more can ya ask? :D
exactly, you obviously know what you're talking about when it comes to this stuff.
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In my opinion... Free weights are superior.... they build better strength.. and give better size...
but i use machines but only After Ive pounded my muscles with heavy free wights... if you want dense muscle with good quality... gotta hit the free weights first...
The main bodypart where i have noticed a lot of guys will use machines everytime in lieu of free weights... is Back.. most guys hate deads.. rows and chins... because they are HARD they will do seated row... and countless lat pulldowns...
Saying that when i went to miami.... i gotta say i came across some awesome machines... I was like a kid in a candy store but when i did train i did freeweights first and foremost
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Saying that when i went to miami.... i gotta say i came across some awesome machines... I was like a kid in a candy store but when i did train i did freeweights first and foremost
That's the thing right there...**IF** you find the right machine there's a huge difference from another that's so-so. The design matters big-time, which is why you have examples like the pullover machine and hack squats where machines are clearly better. The machines that aren't that great don't have great designs and aren't indicative of what's possible. A lot of machines have mediocre designs, don't seem to be designed by someone who actually works out.
If a former Olympic lifter like Sergio can say the machines he used were often better than weights for development, that tells you something. With the right designs.
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Free Weight = functional
machines = non - functional
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Free Weight = functional
machines = non - functional
Arguably more important in sports applications, otherwise moot. Even for sports it's debatable, since no one is actually using a BB during sports lol
That whole stabilizer argument's unproven, plus there are counter-arguments to it. If stabilizers were really that important, no one would use BBs, only DBs. ;) ;) ;)
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Arguably more important in sports applications, otherwise moot. Even for sports it's debatable, since no one is actually using a BB during sports lol
That whole stabilizer argument's unproven, plus there are counter-arguments to it. If stabilizers were really that important, no one would use BBs, only DBs. ;) ;) ;)
If stabilizers weren't important people who can bench 225lbs would be doing 110lb DB presses.
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Arguably more important in sports applications, otherwise moot. Even for sports it's debatable, since no one is actually using a BB during sports lol
That whole stabilizer argument's unproven, plus there are counter-arguments to it. If stabilizers were really that important, no one would use BBs, only DBs. ;) ;) ;)
LOL....actually I don't know very many people who will disagree let alone argue that point successfully.
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I prefer free and machines mixed.
for example for back i do 3 exercises free weight and 1 with a machine.
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always funny to see someone doing a whole bodypart on machines.
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I train my entire hamstrings and my entire calves on machines.
Maybe that explains why they are shit.
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I train my entire hamstrings and my entire calves on machines.
Maybe that explains why they are shit.
maybe you dont believe in donkey raises?
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I don't have machines in my gym. :(
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I don't have machines in my gym. :(
cheap basterd.
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Settle down "cock-of-anus", it's not that serious... 4 plates.... I frequently do that and bench twice the amount you mentioned for reps...
All you talk about is COCK. Hummm.... :-*
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I like to use free weights with fake plates.
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i've never even set foot inside a gym so i can't really comment either way
i just take massive amounts of AAS and beat off to bodybuilding rags
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cheap basterd.
15 e p/m. 8)
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i've never even set foot inside a gym so i can't really comment either way
i just take massive amounts of AAS and beat off to bodybuilding rags
I just shit in a bucket and throw it on people as they walk by.
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If stabilizers weren't important people who can bench 225lbs would be doing 110lb DB presses.
Your example only shows that there's somewhat of a difference in the amounts lifted, nothing to do with difference in development using one or the other.
Same thing with machine weight vs. free weight, the amounts lifted vary, which doesn't really matter. Just add or subtract a little resistance and you have the equivalent. Doesn't have to be the same. And if going from machines to free weights the amounts lifted will initially be lower, then go up in a few workouts to around the same thing as the body aclimates. :D
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Your example only shows that there's somewhat of a difference in the amounts lifted, nothing to do with difference in development using one or the other.
Same thing with machine weight vs. free weight, the amounts lifted vary, which doesn't really matter. Just add or subtract a little resistance and you have the equivalent. Doesn't have to be the same. And if going from machines to free weights the amounts lifted will initially be lower, then go up in a few workouts to around the same thing as the body aclimates. :D
The acclimation you speak of is due to the stabilizers getting stronger. :)
You see plenty of guys doing 200lbs on the flat bench but not a lot with 100lb dbs in each hand for a reason. Aside from how big a pain in the ass kicking the weights up is. :)
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why would you not use a machine if it felt good and was doing the job? really, if hammer strength machines feel good when you do them, if you can progress at a very consistant basis using said machine and are getting results why not use them? why not give them a try? free weights are great but not using a machine just cause it's a machine is moronic IMO.
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90% of getbiggers don't actually work out so I don't know where you got that quote from. :-\