Tennessee atheists win right to distribute literature after schools give Bibles

[tbombz]

Even though God is invisible and there is a huge amount of people who either don't believe in Him or believe that He is something other than what He really is, He really does exist and the Bible really is His word.

With that in mind, yeah I think it's ok to give special privilege to the Bible.

Many of you will think that's crazy, but one day soon you will know the truth. When you meet Jesus.

But, just from a purely factual, purely historical point of view: the Bible is relevant to student education,  more so than any other book or topic. The entire world has a 7 day week, and recognizes it is the year 2015. Why? Because the Bible says that God created the world in a 7 day week and 2015 years ago Jesus was born. The most significant event in the history of the world, that has absolutely shaped our world's morals and beliefs and way of life, is the life of Jesus and the Jewish scriptures that foretold His coming.

[whork]

Even though God is invisible and there is a huge amount of people who either don't believe in Him or believe that He is something other than what He really is, He really does exist and the Bible really is His word.

With that in mind, yeah I think it's ok to give special privilege to the Bible.

Many of you will think that's crazy, but one day soon you will know the truth. When you meet Jesus.

But, just from a purely factual, purely historical point of view: the Bible is relevant to student education,  more so than any other book or topic. The entire world has a 7 day week, and recognizes it is the year 2015. Why? Because the Bible says that God created the world in a 7 day week and 2015 years ago Jesus was born. The most significant event in the history of the world, that has absolutely shaped our world's morals and beliefs and way of life, is the life of Jesus and the Jewish scriptures that foretold His coming.

So you have meet the guy? What did he say?

[LurkerNoMore]

Even though God is invisible and there is a huge amount of people who either don't believe in Him or believe that He is something other than what He really is, He really does exist and the Bible really is His word.

With that in mind, yeah I think it's ok to give special privilege to the Bible.

Many of you will think that's crazy, but one day soon you will know the truth. When you meet Jesus.

But, just from a purely factual, purely historical point of view: the Bible is relevant to student education,  more so than any other book or topic. The entire world has a 7 day week, and recognizes it is the year 2015. Why? Because the Bible says that God created the world in a 7 day week and 2015 years ago Jesus was born. The most significant event in the history of the world, that has absolutely shaped our world's morals and beliefs and way of life, is the life of Jesus and the Jewish scriptures that foretold His coming.

By Jesus you really mean Jesus, as in Hey-Sus, the barrel chest Mexican gardener that made you wear the bunny suit?

[Straw Man]

Even though God is invisible and there is a huge amount of people who either don't believe in Him or believe that He is something other than what He really is, He really does exist and the Bible really is His word.

With that in mind, yeah I think it's ok to give special privilege to the Bible.

Many of you will think that's crazy, but one day soon you will know the truth. When you meet Jesus.

But, just from a purely factual, purely historical point of view: the Bible is relevant to student education,  more so than any other book or topic. The entire world has a 7 day week, and recognizes it is the year 2015. Why? Because the Bible says that God created the world in a 7 day week and 2015 years ago Jesus was born. The most significant event in the history of the world, that has absolutely shaped our world's morals and beliefs and way of life, is the life of Jesus and the Jewish scriptures that foretold His coming.

Oh brother. I don't even know where to start

If that's what you need to believe to stay off crack and all the other self destructive shit that you've done is your life then I guess it's good for you

 

[Dos Equis]

Atheists Target School Prayer — but Students and Residents Flock to the Football Field to Respond With a Powerful Message
Oct. 6, 2015
Billy Hallowell

After atheists complained and threatened legal action over claims that adults have been leading and participating in prayers at an Arkansas school district, officials and students, alike, are pushing back.

The Freedom From Religion Foundation, an atheist activist group, recently sent a letter to superintendent Jason Sanders of Ashdown School District in Ashdown, Arkansas, accusing a band director as well as others of praying at school events, KTBS-TV reported.

But Sanders said that the district hasn’t done anything wrong.

“We feel like that the freedom of our students to express themselves will hold up in a court of law,” he said. “We’re not going to stop any student who wants to exercise their freedom of religious expression such as a prayer.”

And students, too, are speaking up, with dozens taking to a football field to pray before a game last Friday night in an effort to defend their right to invoke the Almighty.

Fans and students from both teams were joined by referees, as they kneeled together on the field in prayer.

Freedom From Religion Staff Attorney Elizabeth Cavell told KTBS-TV that the atheist organization was contacted by a concerned student, which is what led to the initial letter questioning school practices.

“We were informed that staff are participating in prayer or inappropriately injecting religion into their public school role,” Cavell told the outlet.

It is unclear what will happen next.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/10/06/students-and-referees-take-to-the-football-field-to-respond-to-atheists-threats-against-school-prayer/

[Skeletor]

Emanuel County school district settles suit over teacher-led prayer

The Freedom From Religion Foun­dation settled a lawsuit Mon­day with the Emanuel County School District after stopping teacher-led prayer, officials say.

In 2014, a family that encountered teacher-led prayer in kindergarten and first-grade classrooms contacted the watchdog group, which sent a letter to the Georgia school district.

Teachers continued to have prayers among elementary school pupils as part of the school day, resulting in bullying and ostracism of two students referred to as “Jesse and Jamie Doe,” according to the group’s staff attorney, Sam Grover. In February, the group sued on behalf of the family, seeking corrective action from the district and financial compensation for any harm sustained by the family.

On Monday, after reaching an agreement with the district, the foundation said it is dismissing its lawsuit. Emanuel County teachers have received educational training on their obligations not to promote religious beliefs in their classrooms, and the family has been financially compensated, according to the organization.

Officials with the school system did not return e-mails seeking comment Monday.

According to the lawsuit, the children attended Swainsboro Primary School and their parents wished to raise them without religion.

In a kindergarten class, Cel Thomp­­son led students in a call and response prayer: “God our Father, we give thanks for our many blessings. Amen.” In a first-grade class, Kaytrene Bright led students in a daily prayer: “God is great. Let us thank you for our food. Thank you for our daily prayer. Thank you. Amen.”

During August 2014, the two children notified Principal Valorie Watkins about the prayers and their objections. Rather than ending the prayers, Thompson and Bright told the two children to leave their classrooms and sit in the hallway while the rest of the class prayed, it was reported.

“Jesse” told his sister that his teacher, Bright, “used her mean voice” when instructing him to wait in the hallway, according to the lawsuit.

“We’re pleased that the Emanuel County Schools has taken action to correct the egregious constitutional violations that were taking place in its classrooms,” said the Freedom From Religion Foun­dation’s co-president, Annie Laurie Gaylor. “No devotions and religious practices should take place in public schools, and no small child should ever be pressured to take part in such illegal practices. More than 50 years of clear Supreme Court precedent bar such coercive conduct, because religion in schools is divisive and builds walls between children.”


http://chronicle.augusta.com/news/education/2015-10-05/emanuel-county-school-district-settles-lawsuit-prayer-classrooms

http://ffrf.org/images/01goComplaint.pdf

[Agnostic007]

Atheists Target School Prayer — but Students and Residents Flock to the Football Field to Respond With a Powerful Message
Oct. 6, 2015
Billy Hallowell

After atheists complained and threatened legal action over claims that adults have been leading and participating in prayers at an Arkansas school district, officials and students, alike, are pushing back.

The Freedom From Religion Foundation, an atheist activist group, recently sent a letter to superintendent Jason Sanders of Ashdown School District in Ashdown, Arkansas, accusing a band director as well as others of praying at school events, KTBS-TV reported.

But Sanders said that the district hasn’t done anything wrong.

“We feel like that the freedom of our students to express themselves will hold up in a court of law,” he said. “We’re not going to stop any student who wants to exercise their freedom of religious expression such as a prayer.”

And students, too, are speaking up, with dozens taking to a football field to pray before a game last Friday night in an effort to defend their right to invoke the Almighty.

Fans and students from both teams were joined by referees, as they kneeled together on the field in prayer.

Freedom From Religion Staff Attorney Elizabeth Cavell told KTBS-TV that the atheist organization was contacted by a concerned student, which is what led to the initial letter questioning school practices.

“We were informed that staff are participating in prayer or inappropriately injecting religion into their public school role,” Cavell told the outlet.

It is unclear what will happen next.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/10/06/students-and-referees-take-to-the-football-field-to-respond-to-atheists-threats-against-school-prayer/

Apparently the students haven't gotten to Matthew 6:6 and erroneously are praying against Jesus' teaching... once they get to that chapter and verse this should subside...


HAHAHAHAHAHA!

[Dos Equis]

Apparently the students haven't gotten to Matthew 6:6 and erroneously are praying against Jesus' teaching... once they get to that chapter and verse this should subside...


HAHAHAHAHAHA!

I'll get that for you from your gods book tomorrow and post it .. stick with me, you'll learn the bible yet

Sooo . . . . ?

[Agnostic007]

And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.

For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment;

And in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.

And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain. And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended. After that he must be released for a little while.

For Sheol does not thank you; death does not praise you; those who go down to the pit do not hope for your faithfulness

But you are brought down to Sheol, to the far reaches of the pit.

For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment;

Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

Deuteronomy 32:22 says, "For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and SHALL BURN UNTO THE LOWEST HELL, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains."

In the King James Version, Ephesians 4:9 says that before Jesus ascended into heaven, “he also descended . . . into the lower parts of the earth.

[Dos Equis]

And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.

For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment;

And in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.

And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain. And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended. After that he must be released for a little while.

For Sheol does not thank you; death does not praise you; those who go down to the pit do not hope for your faithfulness

But you are brought down to Sheol, to the far reaches of the pit.

For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment;

Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

Deuteronomy 32:22 says, "For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and SHALL BURN UNTO THE LOWEST HELL, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains."

In the King James Version, Ephesians 4:9 says that before Jesus ascended into heaven, “he also descended . . . into the lower parts of the earth.

That's it?  LOL!  No, that does not talk about subterranean aliens currently living below the earth's surface, preparing an alien invasion. 

But I'm glad you are reading the Bible.   

[Agnostic007]

That's it?  LOL!  No, that does not talk about subterranean aliens currently living below the earth's surface, preparing an alien invasion. 

But I'm glad you are reading the Bible.   

 

[Dos Equis]

Waaaah!

'God bless the military' sign on Hawaii base is questioned
By Rob Shikina
Sep 24, 2015


MILITARY RELIGIOUS FREEDOM FOUNDATION
Twenty-three Marines have complained to the Military Religious Freedom Foundation about this sign at Marine Corps Base Hawaii in Kaneohe, claiming it violates the First Amendment.

A mainland watchdog group is crying foul over a “God bless the military” sign on the Marine base in Kaneohe, claiming the display violates the U.S. Constitution.

Military Religious Freedom Foundation sent an email Thursday to Col. Sean Killeen, commanding officer of Marine Corps Base Hawaii, asking that the sign be moved to the chapel grounds or removed.

The advocacy group alleges the sign is a “brazen violation” of the Establishment Clause of the Constitution, which forbids the government from promoting one religion over another.

The group’s email said the sign “sends the clear message that your installation gives preference to those who hold religious beliefs over those who do not.”

The sign, located on a road leading to the marina, reads in full: “God bless the military, their families, and the civilians who work with them.”

MRFF is a nonproft with a mission of protecting the religious freedom of U.S. military members.

MRFF’s founder, Mikey Weinstein, said by phone from New Mexico on Thursday that 23 Marines, from the ranks of the enlisted to officers, have complained about the sign to his organization over the past two weeks.

He said the sign stands out “like a tarantula on a wedding cake” on the small base.

He said the Marines — 21 of whom are Protestant — have not used the chain of command to lodge a complaint because they fear reprisal.

Capt. Tim Irish, spokesman for Marine Corps Base Hawaii, said the commanding officer received an emailed complaint about the sign and ordered his staff to research the sign’s origin and its compliance with existing regulations.

He said the Base Inspector’s Office is also investigating whether there have been complaints in the past about the sign, which may have been there for years.

“MCBH will exercise due diligence to ensure compliance with existing regulations and law, including theEstablishment Clause of the U.S. Constitution,” he said in an email.

http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/20150924_God_bless_the_military_sign_on_Hawaii_base_is_questioned.html?id=329414241

Good.

Marine Corps Refuses to Remove ‘God Bless the Military’ Sign Following Complaint
By Heather Clark on October 13, 20151


MRFF-compressedKANEOHE, Hawaii — A Marine Corps base in Hawaii is refusing to relocate or remove a sign that asks God’s blessing on the Armed Forces following receipt of a complaint from a group that seeks to separate God from the military.

As previously reported, the Military Religious Freedom Foundation (MRFF) sent an email last month to Col. Sean Killeen, the commanding officer of Marine Corps Base Hawaii, to take issue with a sign near the marina that reads, “God bless the military, their families, and the civilians who work with them.” It was reportedly erected following the September 11th attack of 2001.

Blake Page of MRFF asserted that the sign is a violation of the Establishment Clause of the U.S. Constitution, which reads, “Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.” He demanded that the sign either be moved to the chapel or removed altogether.

“This sign is a brazen violation of the No Establishment clause of the Constitution, as it sends the clear message that your installation gives preference to those who hold religious beliefs over those who do not, and those who prefer a monotheistic, intervening God over other deities or theologies,” Blake wrote in the email to Killeen.

“We recognize the value that religious activity brings to the lives of many,” he continued, “however, this sign is not in keeping with the time, place, and manner restrictions required by law [or] for any military commander to bolster religious principles through the official authority given to their rank and position.”

But the religious liberties group Alliance Defending Freedom (ADF) also sent Killeen an email, asserting that MRFF’s demands were unconstitutional.

“As it stands, the sign is not grounds for an Establishment Clause violation. However, removal of the sign would certainly be in violation of the Establishment Clause, showing preference for no religion over religion,” Director of Military Affairs Daniel Briggs wrote.
Connect with Christian News

“Our nation has many constitutionally permissible reminders of our historical and cultural roots, from our national motto, ‘In God We Trust,’ to ‘so help me God’ in the Commissioned Officer’s Oath to the presidential proclamations accompanying each National Day of Prayer,” he continued.

After deliberating the matter, Killeen sent a reply to MRFF on Friday refusing to relocate or remove the sign.

“Several Supreme Court court cases and other federal cases, to include the 9th Circuit, support the conclusion that the message on the sign does not violate the Establishment Clause of the U.S. Constitution,” he wrote. “‘God bless’ is commonly used in our culture in a number of contexts and there are numerous references to God in this nation’s symbols, songs, mottos and oaths.”

“To date, we have not received any direct complaints concerning this sign from service members or reports of service member complaints through any official chain of command,” Killeen continued. “We will always support all service members’ rights to pursue and practice their own belief sets, whether religious or not.”

http://christiannews.net/2015/10/13/marine-corps-refuses-to-remove-god-bless-the-military-sign-following-complaint/

[Dos Equis]

EXCLUSIVE: Football coach says he will defy school's prayer ban
By  Todd Starnes 
Published October 14, 2015
FoxNews.com

Bremerton High School football coach Joe Kennedy (Courtesy Liberty Institute)

There’s a scene in the great football film “Facing the Giants” when the coach decides to implement a new coaching philosophy – to praise God no matter what the result.

Joe Kennedy, a football coach at Bremerton High School in Washington, was so inspired by the film he decided to embrace that philosophy – knowing that to do so could cost him his job. I’ll explain why in just a few more paragraphs.

Kennedy, a Desert Storm and Desert Shield combat veteran, made national headlines in September after the Bremerton School District launched an investigation into his post-game prayer.

Coach Kennedy plans on praying at midfield on Friday night.

Since 2008, Coach Kennedy would walk to the 50-yard line where he would offer a short prayer of thanksgiving for the safety of the players, the fairness of the game and for spirited competition. Over the years, students joined the coach – all voluntarily.

“I’m being investigated for thanking God for the opportunities that have been given me,” he said. “It’s absolutely ridiculous.”

The Bremerton School District eventually issued a three-page letter to the coach – forbidding him from praying before or after high school football games.

 “I spent 20 years in the military defending the Constitution and the freedoms that everybody has,” the coach told me. “All of a sudden, I realized that people who work for the public schools don’t have the same constitutional rights that everyone else has.”

The Bremerton School District took specific issue with the coach’s pre-game locker room prayer as well as his post-game inspirational talk at midfield.  “Problematic practices,” is how they phrased it.

“Your talks with students may not include religious express, including prayer,” Superintendent Aaron Leavell wrote in a Sept. 17th letter to the coach. “They must remain entirely secular in nature, so as to avoid alienation of any team member.”

The superintendent’s list of demands is, quite frankly, draconian. Consider this edict:

“If students engage in religious activity, school staff may not take any action likely to be perceived by a reasonable observer, who is aware of the history and context of such activity at BHS, as endorsement of that activity,” the superintendent wrote.

He specifically referenced that such actions would include “kneeling or bowing of the head during the students’ religious activity.”

Liberty Institute, a law firm that specializes in religious liberty cases, now represents Coach Kennedy and they fired off a letter on Wednesday to the school district urging them to rescind the prayer ban.

“There is no lawful prohibition against Coach Kennedy’s practice of saying a private, post-game prayer,” attorney Hiram Sasser wrote. “The prayers are Coach Kennedy’s private religious speech, and no reasonable observer could conclude that BHS sponsors, endorses, or encourages student participation.”

Sasser blasted the school district for “banning Coach Kennedy from bowing his head or even being physically present where students may be praying.”

He said such action is blatantly unconstitutional.

“This is tantamount to a declaration that Coach Kennedy must flee the scene if students voluntarily come to the same area and pray as well,” Sasser said.

Liberty Institute wants the Bremerton School District to accommodate Coach Kennedy’s religious beliefs. But regardless, Coach Kennedy plans on praying at midfield on Friday night.

He does so knowing that it could cost him his job.

“I’m not a guy who hides in a corner and does a secret prayer to God,” the coach told me. “I’m very open about my faith everywhere I go.”

And that includes the 50-yard line at Bremerton High School.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2015/10/14/exclusive-football-coach-says-will-defy-schools-prayer-ban.html?intcmp=hpbt4

[avxo]

“I’m not a guy who hides in a corner and does a secret prayer to God,” the coach told me. “I’m very open about my faith everywhere I go.”

Coach Kennedy ought to read Matthew 6:6: "But when you pray, go away by yourself, shut the door behind you, and pray to your Father in private. Then your Father, who sees everything, will reward you."

[Agnostic007]

Coach Kennedy ought to read Matthew 6:6: "But when you pray, go away by yourself, shut the door behind you, and pray to your Father in private. Then your Father, who sees everything, will reward you."

But there is no "glory" in that... it doesn't draw attention...

[Dos Equis]

Coach Kennedy ought to read Matthew 6:6: "But when you pray, go away by yourself, shut the door behind you, and pray to your Father in private. Then your Father, who sees everything, will reward you."

Well I guess all those churches need to shut down, no religious meetings, and all the public prayer Jesus and his disciplines were involved in were all wrong. 

But only if you're trying to take a verse out of context with no real purpose other than to argue. 

[Agnostic007]

Well I guess all those churches need to shut down, no religious meetings, and all the public prayer Jesus and his disciplines were involved in were all wrong. 

But only if you're trying to take a verse out of context with no real purpose other than to argue. 

But.. it's not out of context... reading the entire chapter, hell, the entire new testament... you still come to the conclusion Jesus was against the public spectacle and it was more between you and god. That kids have been trained since they could crawl to do otherwise doesn't make it right..

[Dos Equis]

But.. it's not out of context... reading the entire chapter, hell, the entire new testament... you still come to the conclusion Jesus was against the public spectacle and it was more between you and god. That kids have been trained since they could crawl to do otherwise doesn't make it right..

Yes, it's out of context and nonsensical.  He wasn't advocating for everyone to literally pray in their closets.  That's silly.  He prayed publicly numerous times. 

[avxo]

Yes, it's out of context and nonsensical.  He wasn't advocating for everyone to literally pray in their closets.  That's silly.  He prayed publicly numerous times.  

That's the beauty of the Bible: you can find a passage to justify _anything_. Want to pray in public? Check. Want to pray in private? Check. All sins forgivable? Check. Some sins unforgivable? Check. OK to marry unbelievers? Check. Not OK to marry unbelievers? Check.

At any rate, you took my mostly sarcastic quip way too seriously.

I don't think the school should be able to regulate the Coach's private exercise of his religion, but when he acts in his capacity as a Coach - as he has - then it certainly can and he ought to be more mindful. I get that you think that this is not a big deal, but try to think about it from the other side for just a second: Let's say there's one kid on that team that's not Christian. Suddenly, his entire team is praying... what are his choices? He can simply not join in, which will cause him to stand out (and teenagers don't like to stand out - they're herd animals) and cause friction with his teammates and perhaps his Coach. Or he can just pretend to join in, debasing his own beliefs in the process.

Before you say that there won't be friction and it'll all be ok, I urge you to read this article about a Hindu dental tech that claims to have been harassed and called a "devil" by her Christian coworkers. If that's the behavior of adults, what can be expected from children?

[Dos Equis]

That's the beauty of the Bible: you can find a passage to justify _anything_. Want to pray in public? Check. Want to pray in private? Check. All sins forgivable? Check. Some sins unforgivable? Check. OK to marry unbelievers? Check. Not OK to marry unbelievers? Check.

At any rate, you took my mostly sarcastic quip way too seriously.

I don't think the school should be able to regulate the Coach's private exercise of his religion, but when he acts in his capacity as a Coach - as he has - then it certainly can and he ought to be more mindful. I get that you think that this is not a big deal, but try to think about it from the other side for just a second: Let's say there's one kid on that team that's not Christian. Suddenly, his entire team is praying... what are his choices? He can simply not join in, which will cause him to stand out (and teenagers don't like to stand out - they're herd animals) and cause friction with his teammates and perhaps his Coach. Or he can just pretend to join in, debasing his own beliefs in the process.

Before you say that there won't be friction and it'll all be ok, I urge you to read this article about a [ulr=http://www.airforcetimes.com/story/military/2015/10/05/air-force-dental-technician-accused-witch/73398304/]Hindu dental tech that claims to have been harassed and called a "devil" by her Christian coworkers[/url]. If that's the behavior of adults, what can be expected from children?

It's true that anyone wanting to manipulate various parts of the Bible can easily do so.  Not that hard. 

I am much more sensitive to the effects prayer and religion can have on kids, who are often a captive audience.  This situation, however, is entirely voluntary.  It's also a very common practice at the collegiate and pro levels.  Can it make players who don't participate feel uncomfortable?  Sure.  But that shouldn't be the standard for whether it is acceptable. 

Keep in mind that in the speech context, the First Amendment is largely designed to protect unpopular speech, which certainly agitates a lot of people.  Religious expression shouldn't be treated any differently.  That is, we should not censor religious expression solely because it might make some people uncomfortable. 

[avxo]

I am much more sensitive to the effects prayer and religion can have on kids, who are often a captive audience.  This situation, however, is entirely voluntary.  It's also a very common practice at the collegiate and pro levels.  Can it make players who don't participate feel uncomfortable?  Sure.  But that shouldn't be the standard for whether it is acceptable.

I agree with you about captive audiences. As to whether it's voluntary: even if it is, there's a difference between theory and practice. It's voluntary to stand, put your hand over your heart and face the flag when the National Anthem is heard. Or that's the theory. Now, in practice, imagine the grilling that will ensue when one person doesn't do this.

It's true that people shouldn't be immune from the consequences of their action, but the relevant bit here is that we are talking about school-related activities. Are the students a captive audience in the locker room, but not on the field? If there's a Hindu student on the team, is it ok to have the coach effectively lead the team in prayer?

Keep in mind that in the speech context, the First Amendment is largely designed to protect unpopular speech, which certainly agitates a lot of people.  Religious expression shouldn't be treated any differently.  That is, we should not censor religious expression solely because it might make some people uncomfortable. 

I agree, with the proviso that the government can and should control the behavior of its employees in the context of their work-related duties. If I go to a county clerk, I shouldn't have to worry about the individual clerk's beliefs which shouldn't matter or be allowed to interfere with his job (up to reasonable accommodations). Same with a coach - if he's on the clock, he shouldn't be praying; he can do that on his own time. See the URL I pasted in my previous and tell me if you think that the government can't regulate the on-the-job conduct of its employees.

Tell me, would you be ok if Coach Kennedy was Muslim and prayed to Allah instead? Or a practitioner of Santeria?

[Dos Equis]

I agree with you about captive audiences. As to whether it's voluntary: even if it is, there's a difference between theory and practice. It's voluntary to stand, put your hand over your heart and face the flag when the National Anthem is heard. Or that's the theory. Now, in practice, imagine the grilling that will ensue when one person doesn't do this.

It's true that people shouldn't be immune from the consequences of their action, but the relevant bit here is that we are talking about school-related activities. Are the students a captive audience in the locker room, but not on the field? If there's a Hindu student on the team, is it ok to have the coach effectively lead the team in prayer?



I agree, with the proviso that the government can and should control the behavior of its employees in the context of their work-related duties. If I go to a county clerk, I shouldn't have to worry about the individual clerk's beliefs which shouldn't matter or be allowed to interfere with his job (up to reasonable accommodations). Same with a coach - if he's on the clock, he shouldn't be praying; he can do that on his own time. See the URL I pasted in my previous and tell me if you think that the government can't regulate the on-the-job conduct of its employees.

Tell me, would you be ok if Coach Kennedy was Muslim and prayed to Allah instead? Or a practitioner of Santeria?

Yes it's still voluntary.  The coach started praying on the field by himself.  The fact other players joined him is fine.  If he was directing his players to do so that would be an entirely different story. 

I completely disagree about a coach or any government employee not being allowed to pray while on the clock.  That certainly isn't what the First Amendment requires.  Public employees pray all the time.  They have Bible study groups that meet in their government offices that are purely voluntary.  Nothing wrong with that. 

Not sure what the point is about the Air Force story?  If you're asking me if that was wrong, then yes of course it was wrong.  Blatant harassment and discrimination that should not be tolerated. 

I could care less if the coach went and took a prayer rug onto the field after games and prayed to Allah, or some other god, so long as he is not forcing his players to participate. 

[Straw Man]

But there is no "glory" in that... it doesn't draw attention...

exactly and you also can't complain about being persecuted which is de rigueur for our modern day fundies

[LurkerNoMore]

Yes, it's out of context and nonsensical.  He wasn't advocating for everyone to literally pray in their closets.  That's silly.  He prayed publicly numerous times. 

That applies to the entire Bible.

[Dos Equis]

That applies to the entire Bible.

How can an entire book be out of context with the book itself? 

If you think it's nonsensical then don't read it.