Author Topic: Obama goes there - ’People Committed Terrible Deeds In The Name of Christ’  (Read 13299 times)

Option D

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Why is it inconsistent? What relevence does something that happened in the past have on the present? How does this provide any insight or solutions to the present problem?

Oslo wasnt that long ago... it was a christian terroist. It happened in the name of christianity. He killed 77 people....
Yeah its the past. But its pretty recent past bro..

Come on..if youre gonna have a go with me on here...please be equip yourself with some facts

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Brevik was one guy who killed 77 people.  just TODAY ISIS killed 40, boko harum dozens etc.    To equate the two is nonsense

I swear i read this like 20 times trying to make sense of it...
I dont get what youre saying?
That the only time someone killed someone in the name of Christianity was in the case of Brevik?

I thought the issue on the table was time?

polychronopolous

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What other topics?

hahahaha c'mon bro I respect/like BOTH you guys!

Mal's up on his shit when it comes to lifting...some really strong posts from him over the years concerning that. Big time family guy. Goes out of his way to help the young folks in his community. I can respect that.

Archer77....that guy is just a pit bull who doesn't quit until he has utterly destroyed the other guy he is debating. Just a pile of dust left over when he's done.

polychronopolous

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bro..i dont like any Religion. Im Agnostic. I dont know.
But to dismiss the atrocities of one religion and rebuke another religion for commiting the same crimes, and the only difference being a percived difference in time (which is also false) is just inconsistant to me.

So going forward every time some poor bastard gets boiled alive in the name of Islam we gotta reference that isolated Oslo event, a random abortion clinic bombing in 1989, or some bullshit that popped off in 1216 A.D.?

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Some folks are just desperate to take the focus off of Radical Islam.  Why? 

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Some folks are just desperate to take the focus off of Radical Islam.  Why? 

liberal MENTAL disorder

whork

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Oslo wasnt that long ago... it was a christian terroist. It happened in the name of christianity. He killed 77 people....
Yeah its the past. But its pretty recent past bro..

Come on..if youre gonna have a go with me on here...please be equip yourself with some facts


I have to correct you.

Breivik did it to hit the "elite" the ones that allowed the huge muslim immigration and called people who opposed it nazi racist etc..


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President Compares Islam to Christianity



By Dennis Prager - February 10, 2015



 

 

 
 

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In his National Prayer Breakfast speech last week, President Barack Obama said:

"And lest we get on our high horse and think that this is unique to some other place, remember that during the Crusades and the Inquisition, people committed terrible deeds in the name of Christ. In our home country, slavery and Jim Crow all too often was justified in the name of Christ. ... So this is not unique to one group or one religion."



 
It is important to analyze these words -- because the president of the United States spoke them in a major forum, and because what he said is said by all those who defend Islam against any criticism.

Referring to Islamic violence, the president accuses anyone who implies that such religious violence "is unique to some other place" -- meaning outside the Christian West -- as getting on a "high horse."

Is this true? Of course, not. In our time, major religious violence is in fact "unique to some other place," namely the Islamic world. What other religious group is engaged in mass murder, systematic rape, slavery, beheading innocents, bombing public events, shooting up school children, wiping out whole religious communities and other such atrocities?

The answer is, of course, no other religious group. Therefore massive violence in the name of one's religion today is indeed "unique to some other place." To state this is not to "get on a high horse." It is to tell the most important truth about the world in our time.

Would the president have used the "high horse" argument 30 years ago regarding Western condemnation of South African apartheid?

Of course not. Because contempt for Western evils is noble, while contempt for non-Western, especially Islamic, evils is "to get on a high horse."

The president then defends his statement that religious violence is not "unique to some other place" by providing Christian examples: first the Crusades and the Inquisition and then slavery and Jim Crow.

Before addressing the specific examples, a word about the timing. The Crusades took place a thousand years ago and the Inquisition five hundred years ago. Is it not telling that -- even if the examples are valid (which they aren't) -- the president had to go back 500 and 1,000 years to find his primary Christian examples?

Doesn't going back so far in the past render the argument a bit absurd? Imagine if the president had said, "When the Jews conquered Canaan in 1,000 B.C., they committed terrible deeds in the name of Judaism." Anyone hearing that argument would have thought that the president had lost his mind. Yet he and almost everyone else who wishes to defend Islam raise the Crusades and the Inquisition. The president also mentioned slavery and Jim Crow, but it's the Crusades and the Inquisition that are almost always used to equate Muslim and Christian evildoing.

Furthermore, it is difficult to see why comparing Muslim behavior today to Christian behavior a thousand or five hundred years ago provides a defense of Islam. On the contrary, isn't the allegation that Islamic evil at the present time is morally equivalent to Christian evil a thousand years ago a damning indictment of the present state of much of Islam?

And as regards the substance of the charge, this widespread use of the Crusades and the Inquisition is ignorant of the realities of both. The Crusades were Christian wars to retake territories in the Holy Land that Muslims had forcefully taken from Christians. Unless the question of "who started it?" is morally irrelevant, and therefore all wars are immoral, the Crusaders' war on Muslims in the Holy Land is a poor example of evil in the name of Christ.

Now, as it happens, there was terrible evil in the name of Christ during the Crusades -- the wholesale massacre of Jews in Germany by various Crusaders on their way to the Holy Land. For the record, however, in no instance did the Church order these killings and in almost every case Jews sought and received aid and support from local bishops.

In any event, other than Jews, few people know of these massacres. Almost everyone who cites the Crusades as an example of Christian evil is referring to the Crusaders' wars against Muslims.

As for the Inquisition, suffice it to say that it is now acknowledged among scholars that in its worst years -- 1480 to 1530 -- the Inquisition killed an average of 40 people a year. Each was unspeakably tragic and evil, but the Inquisition was benign compared to Boko Haram, al-Qaida, Islamic State, the Taliban, Hamas and the other Islamic terror organizations.

We live in an age of moral idiocy. Moral equivalence is the left's way of resisting fighting evil. It did it during the Cold War when the U.S. and the Soviet Union were morally equated, and it is doing it now when it morally equates all religions and societies. Take, for example, this imbecilic equation by writer Ta-Nehisi Coates in The Atlantic, defending the president's comments on Islam and Christianity by invoking slavery: "Americans have done, on their own soil, in the name of their own God, something similar to what ISIS is doing now."

There is a major moral crisis in one religion on earth today -- Islam. To say so is not to get on a high horse. It is to identify violent Islam as the greatest evil in the world since Nazism and Communism.



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Posted on February 10, 2015 at 10:02:51 AM EST by Kaslin



resident Barack Obama inserted a jarring note in his speech to the annual Prayer Breakfast by insulting Christians with an inappropriate reference to the Crusades and charging that people "committed terrible deeds in the name of Christ."

He ignited a firestorm by comparing the ISIS outrages to medieval history of a thousand years ago. By drawing such simplistic analogies, it sounded like he was trying to excuse or whitewash the recent acts of Islamic terrorism, including the beheading and incinerating of hostages.

Obama didn't acknowledge that it was Muslim aggression that prompted the first Crusade. There would not have been any motivation for the Crusades if Muslims had not been attacking Christian pilgrims who were traveling to the Holy Land for peaceful prayer and worship.

Obama's insults to Christians weren't any slip of the tongue. His aides confirmed that his words were deliberately chosen.

Deputy press secretary Eric Schultz said that Americans "need to be honest with ourselves." The problem with Obama is that he needs to be honest with the fact that Islam is at war with us, and he just won't admit it.

"Lest we get on our high horse and think this is unique to some other place, remember that during the Crusades and the Inquisition, people committed terrible deeds in the name of Christ. In our home country, slavery and Jim Crow all too often was justified in the name of Christ."

The Crusades were 800 to 900 years ago; the Inquisition was 500 to 600 years ago; and slavery in the United States ended 150 years ago. Even Jim Crow, which means not letting blacks and whites eat at the same lunch counter, ended 50 years ago.

Former Virginia Gov. Jim Gilmore called Obama's remarks "the most offensive I've ever heard a president make." Gilmore charged that Obama "has offended every believing Christian in the United States."

In the first week of February, the Islamic State released a video showing a Jordanian pilot being burned alive in a steel cage. The next day, the United Nations issued a report describing horrific details of the Islamic State's "mass executions of boys, as well as reports of beheadings, crucifixions of children and burying children alive."

And the next day after that, President Obama publicly and deliberately criticized the "terrible deeds" committed "in the name of Christ." Quite a week, wasn't it?

Obama presumed to lecture us how to react to Islamic atrocities. He urged us to get off "our high horse" and "remember that during the Crusades and the Inquisition, people committed terrible deeds in the name of Christ" and "justified" slavery and Jim Crow "in the name of Christ."

It makes no sense to try to downplay the horrific act of burning someone alive in a steel cage by analogizing it to other conduct that Americans rejected long ago. But that's how he is trying to excuse, or at least minimize, ISIS atrocities.

According to Bernard Lewis, a reliable historian of Islam, the Crusades were an attempt to recover territories that had been taken from the Christians by the Muslims. The crusaders risked their lives to save Christian people and regain Christian lands that the Muslims had stolen.

The Spanish Inquisition killed a couple of thousand people in the aftermath of a war to drive out Muslim invaders 500 years ago. That's fewer than the number put to death by Muslim killers today in only a few months.

Speaking on the Fox News Channel last week, the African-American Bishop E. W. Jackson called out the president: "Sir, you just gave them a gigantic propaganda tool. They called us Crusaders, and you've just confirmed it. ... He's basically justified exactly what Osama bin Laden was saying."

Continuing, Bishop Jackson said: "Mr. President, we're not on our 'high horse.' What we are on is high alert, and the American people would like for once to know that you're willing to defend Christianity and defend America instead of defending Islam."

Bishop Jackson, who served in the Marine Corps and earned a law degree from Harvard Law School before entering the ministry, concluded that "this president does everything he possibly can to defend Islam and does almost nothing to defend the honor of this country. And yes, once again he's giving them exactly what they want. And they're laughing at us, because they see it as a sign of weakness."

Christianity is not the problem today, and Jim Crow's not around anymore. Islamic Jihad, and its political manifestation in Sharia law, is the present-day threat to individual and civil liberties all over the world.

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Contentions



Get Off Your High Horse, Mr. Obama



Peter Wehner
 02.09.2015 - 10:30 AM 


 
     



 


Part of the problem with President Obama’s recent National Prayer Breakfast speech, as Michael Rubin has pointed out, is that it provides a simplistic and incomplete understanding of the Crusades. (You might also read this First Things review, “Inventing the Crusades,” by Thomas F. Madden.)

But the president’s remarks also demonstrate a simplistic and incomplete understanding of Christianity. By that I mean when Mr. Obama, in warning Christians not to get on their “high horse” when talking about the problems in Islam, said, “In our home country, slavery and Jim Crow all too often was justified in the name of Christ.”

True enough–but it’s also true that slavery and segregation were overthrown by those who justified their actions in the name of Christ. And if the president insists on making comparisons between Christianity and Islam, then it needs to be said that while Christianity has struggled with religious intolerance in its past, it has almost everywhere made its inner peace with religious tolerance and pluralism. On the other hand, true religious freedom has been quite rare in Muslim-majority communities throughout history. That doesn’t mean it can’t happen. It doesn’t mean that most Muslims embrace the version of Islam being practiced by ISIS. And it certainly doesn’t mean that individual Muslims can’t assimilate themselves in America. Millions do, and they are wonderful contributors to our nation.

But it does mean that in the here and now, the problems we see are emanating not from within Christianity but from within Islam. Even Islamic leaders, like Egypt’s General Sisi, admit as much. Yet the president of the United States, alas, does not. He continues to act as if he’s an Islamic scholar, declaring what is and what is not “true” Islam. Mr. Obama is clearly no theologian, so it’s best he drop the pretense. His core argument–that Islamism has nothing at all to do with Islam–is utterly detached from reality. Let’s just say it’s not happenstance that the Islamic State is not called the Reformed Presbyterian State. “Allahu Akbar” isn’t Yiddish.

Then there’s the matter of timing. The president went to the National Prayer Breakfast to call attention to the long-ago sins of Christianity in the aftermath of a particularly savage and brutal killing by the Islamic State, in which they doused a Jordanian pilot in flammable liquid and put him in a cage before burning him to death. Beheadings, it appears, are passé for jihadists. Decapitation isn’t vivid enough for them. Yet Barack Obama, being Barack Obama, decided it’s his job to insist on moral equivalence–or, to be more precise, to insist on immoral equivalence.

I do believe that if President Obama and his administration weren’t so clueless in his understanding of Islamism–remember that the Ft. Hood massacre was referred to as “workplace violence” and jihadist attacks were examples of “man-caused disasters”–and if he wasn’t so reticent in his fight against it, Mr. Obama’s slip-shod detours into the history of the Crusades and the Inquisition might have been more tolerable. As it is, the president was clearly using his speech to the National Prayer Breakfast not only to justify his own imaginary world, but to try to put those who are speaking the truth about militant Islam on the defensive. If that’s what Mr. Obama was hoping to achieve–well, he achieved the opposite. For goodness’s sake, even NBC’s Andrea Mitchell is criticizing him. Memo to Barack Obama: When you’ve lost Andrea Mitchell, you’re losing the debate.

One final observation: President Obama likes to portray himself as a man who is unusually self-reflective and self-critical. The contrary is the case. As Ross Douthat points out, Mr. Obama is a partisan and a progressive who takes to “highlighting crimes that he doesn’t feel particularly implicated in (how much theological guilt does our liberal Protestant president really feel about the Inquisition?) and the sins of groups he disagrees with anyway (Republican Cold Warriors, the religious right, white conservative Southerners).” That is to say, Obama is engaging in a dishonest and cynical game in which he relishes putting himself above his country or his professed faith and then likes to peddle that as humility.

A friend wrote me and said that if Mr. Obama wanted to have performed a real act of humility and self-criticism during his National Prayer Breakfast speech, he could have said something like this:

Lest we get on our high horse, let’s be more honest about where we have allowed ourselves to be misled in the name of religion. I myself worshipped for years in a church that distorted the Gospel of Christ in the name of a racialist message of hatred and intolerance towards my brothers and sisters of other races. It was not until I started campaigning for President that I realized just how misguided Reverent Wright was, and how far he had distorted religion to serve his political purposes.

That statement would have been far more honest, far more self-reflective, and far less cynical. Which may explain why there was no chance Mr. Obama would utter these words.

It’s long past time Mr. Obama get off his high horse. Vanity is difficult to take in anyone–but it’s especially difficult to take in a person of such staggering incompetence and intellectual shallowness.

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President Compares Islam to Christianity



By Dennis Prager - February 10, 2015



 

 

 
 

Email
 
Print
 



3
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In his National Prayer Breakfast speech last week, President Barack Obama said:

"And lest we get on our high horse and think that this is unique to some other place, remember that during the Crusades and the Inquisition, people committed terrible deeds in the name of Christ. In our home country, slavery and Jim Crow all too often was justified in the name of Christ. ... So this is not unique to one group or one religion."



 
It is important to analyze these words -- because the president of the United States spoke them in a major forum, and because what he said is said by all those who defend Islam against any criticism.

Referring to Islamic violence, the president accuses anyone who implies that such religious violence "is unique to some other place" -- meaning outside the Christian West -- as getting on a "high horse."

Is this true? Of course, not. In our time, major religious violence is in fact "unique to some other place," namely the Islamic world. What other religious group is engaged in mass murder, systematic rape, slavery, beheading innocents, bombing public events, shooting up school children, wiping out whole religious communities and other such atrocities?

The answer is, of course, no other religious group. Therefore massive violence in the name of one's religion today is indeed "unique to some other place." To state this is not to "get on a high horse." It is to tell the most important truth about the world in our time.

Would the president have used the "high horse" argument 30 years ago regarding Western condemnation of South African apartheid?

Of course not. Because contempt for Western evils is noble, while contempt for non-Western, especially Islamic, evils is "to get on a high horse."

The president then defends his statement that religious violence is not "unique to some other place" by providing Christian examples: first the Crusades and the Inquisition and then slavery and Jim Crow.

Before addressing the specific examples, a word about the timing. The Crusades took place a thousand years ago and the Inquisition five hundred years ago. Is it not telling that -- even if the examples are valid (which they aren't) -- the president had to go back 500 and 1,000 years to find his primary Christian examples?

Doesn't going back so far in the past render the argument a bit absurd? Imagine if the president had said, "When the Jews conquered Canaan in 1,000 B.C., they committed terrible deeds in the name of Judaism." Anyone hearing that argument would have thought that the president had lost his mind. Yet he and almost everyone else who wishes to defend Islam raise the Crusades and the Inquisition. The president also mentioned slavery and Jim Crow, but it's the Crusades and the Inquisition that are almost always used to equate Muslim and Christian evildoing.

Furthermore, it is difficult to see why comparing Muslim behavior today to Christian behavior a thousand or five hundred years ago provides a defense of Islam. On the contrary, isn't the allegation that Islamic evil at the present time is morally equivalent to Christian evil a thousand years ago a damning indictment of the present state of much of Islam?

And as regards the substance of the charge, this widespread use of the Crusades and the Inquisition is ignorant of the realities of both. The Crusades were Christian wars to retake territories in the Holy Land that Muslims had forcefully taken from Christians. Unless the question of "who started it?" is morally irrelevant, and therefore all wars are immoral, the Crusaders' war on Muslims in the Holy Land is a poor example of evil in the name of Christ.

Now, as it happens, there was terrible evil in the name of Christ during the Crusades -- the wholesale massacre of Jews in Germany by various Crusaders on their way to the Holy Land. For the record, however, in no instance did the Church order these killings and in almost every case Jews sought and received aid and support from local bishops.

In any event, other than Jews, few people know of these massacres. Almost everyone who cites the Crusades as an example of Christian evil is referring to the Crusaders' wars against Muslims.

As for the Inquisition, suffice it to say that it is now acknowledged among scholars that in its worst years -- 1480 to 1530 -- the Inquisition killed an average of 40 people a year. Each was unspeakably tragic and evil, but the Inquisition was benign compared to Boko Haram, al-Qaida, Islamic State, the Taliban, Hamas and the other Islamic terror organizations.

We live in an age of moral idiocy. Moral equivalence is the left's way of resisting fighting evil. It did it during the Cold War when the U.S. and the Soviet Union were morally equated, and it is doing it now when it morally equates all religions and societies. Take, for example, this imbecilic equation by writer Ta-Nehisi Coates in The Atlantic, defending the president's comments on Islam and Christianity by invoking slavery: "Americans have done, on their own soil, in the name of their own God, something similar to what ISIS is doing now."

There is a major moral crisis in one religion on earth today -- Islam. To say so is not to get on a high horse. It is to identify violent Islam as the greatest evil in the world since Nazism and Communism.



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Nailed it.  Great commentary.